[ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA

[tokyoghetto]

Bad news from New York State for US users and exchanges:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2aycxs/hi_this_is_ben_lawsky_at_nydfs_here_are_the/

Let's tell them how we feel about this loud and hard! Just try to stay civil... There's still time to change these poorly thought out policies.

holy shit. New York is going full retard. PoSA needs to happen now. Screw Murrica I am so glad I don't live in that shit hole.

I would advise CLOAK devs to NEVER REVEAL their identities. Get rich off CLOAK and MOVE to a crypto safe-haven, far from the clutches of the US Feds.

If NY passes these laws and more states start to mirror them, then everyone that is based in the US is "pound me in the ass prison" screwed.

Everyone should take a break from whatever it is they are doing and read the link above. It is more important now than ever that innovations like PoSA and OneMarket come to existence. They can take my CLOAK from my cold dead fingers.

[minerjoen]

Hey guys, i readed some pages but i cant find the answer on my next question:
I got a cloak wallet since the begin, it works, but sync verry slowly and seems to stuck on 389 blocks left. When i download the new wallet ( i was away from this coin for a while ) and try to open i get the next error:
LIBEAY32.DLL is missing.
Why are files missing, even when i download from the cloakcoin.com website - mega?

[minerjoen]

Hey guys, i readed some pages but i cant find the answer on my next question:
I got a cloak wallet since the begin, it works, but sync verry slowly and seems to stuck on 389 blocks left. When i download the new wallet ( i was away from this coin for a while ) and try to open i get the next error:
LIBEAY32.DLL is missing.
Why are files missing, even when i download from the cloakcoin.com website - mega?

Common error its with mega.. DID u use CHROME to download? MOZILLA and Safari dont work for it

Oh, i use firefox indeed... I dont have chrome but i will use IE now.

Thanks, i will edit after trying

Not working, it was already sounding strange what u say, because a mega file is not different on an other browser, a zip is a zip. In the zip ( no matter what browser u use ) is just a file missing.

For sure i wont download chrome on my computer.

[smokim87]

Bad news from New York State for US users and exchanges:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2aycxs/hi_this_is_ben_lawsky_at_nydfs_here_are_the/

Let's tell them how we feel about this loud and hard! Just try to stay civil... There's still time to change these poorly thought out policies.

holy shit. New York is going full retard. PoSA needs to happen now. Screw Murrica I am so glad I don't live in that shit hole.

I would advise CLOAK devs to NEVER REVEAL their identities. Get rich off CLOAK and MOVE to a crypto safe-haven, far from the clutches of the US Feds.

If NY passes these laws and more states start to mirror them, then everyone that is based in the US is "pound me in the ass prison" screwed.

Everyone should take a break from whatever it is they are doing and read the link above. It is more important now than ever that innovations like PoSA and OneMarket come to existence. They can take my CLOAK from my cold dead fingers.

Thank God I live in Canada 

[merc84]

Hey guys, i readed some pages but i cant find the answer on my next question:
I got a cloak wallet since the begin, it works, but sync verry slowly and seems to stuck on 389 blocks left. When i download the new wallet ( i was away from this coin for a while ) and try to open i get the next error:
LIBEAY32.DLL is missing.
Why are files missing, even when i download from the cloakcoin.com website - mega?

Missing file can be found in the Tor browser package

[rstarikov]

Hey guys, i readed some pages but i cant find the answer on my next question:
I got a cloak wallet since the begin, it works, but sync verry slowly and seems to stuck on 389 blocks left. When i download the new wallet ( i was away from this coin for a while ) and try to open i get the next error:
LIBEAY32.DLL is missing.
Why are files missing, even when i download from the cloakcoin.com website - mega?

Download and install OpenSSL (they won't let me post the link, check out its in the comments for new wallet on Cloakcoin facebook page.)

[Coolstoryteller]

Search www.cloaktalk.org for issues you may have. If you don't find your issue there, post it and you'll get a response from someone in the community.

[Splatters]

At what point is the releasing of posa wallet?

[x11joe]

::OneMarket Update::

Okay, in light of some recent discussions I've had regarding OneMarket we need to make some tough decisions as a community before I begin coding forward.

Problems:
- Listings have self-regulation fee to pay OneJury reviewers
- Source-code is public

These problems mean that someone can/will remove the OneJury from the coin thus making a cheaper alternative marketplace and ultimately defeating the purpose of OneJury in the first-place unfortunately BUT only if more people will use that coin and adopt it?

Will more people use the evil coin then cloak which will be held to a higher moral standard?

If I were to make a coin without OneJury...

Positives:
- Price of coin will skyrocket from dark-market use, especially because of PoSA features.
- Far easier to implement the marketplace faster.

Negatives:
- Are we legally held responsible for bad posts?
- Moral concerns about the listings.

But since someone will ultimately do it 'anyways', does that mean that we need to be the coin that might as well do it first?

So question is: "Do we stay with OneJury and try to create a safe marketplace that will compete with the copy-cat dark market coin that is sure to follow (if we can), OR do we just make the coin completely free of all restrictions?"

I'm interested to see where the community wants to go.  I will program whatever it is we want as long as everyone is aware of the moral concerns involved.

::Possible Alternatives::

It's possible to add in a private listing feature so that dark-market users can still make postings, they will just not be searchable by the general public.  This would protect the general public with OneJury still, but still allow dark-market use which would happen anyways with a copycat clone.

Downsides:
- Listings are cheaper because of no need for OneJury Fee
- People might want to just always do 'private' listings to save money.  This could work if someone created a website for OneMarket where people go their to list their public key address and everyone just searches there to find listings instead of using OneMarkets interface (thus getting around OneJury and defeating the point).

Positives:
- Listings are cheaper because of no need for OneJury Fee.
- Might make it more legal for us??
- Value of cloak goes way up from darkmarket use.

We could also create 'two' coins, cloak which upholds a moral standards for a marketplace and another coin in which anything goes? Not sure this is much of an alternative though...

I'm still thinking of other alternatives but I'm curious to see what the community wants to do moving forward.  I'm getting some sleep for now but will update you on OneMarket progress once we decide what we want to do moving forward.

[rustynailer]

::OneMarket Update::

Okay, in light of some recent discussions I've had regarding OneMarket we need to make some tough decisions as a community before I begin coding forward.

Problems:
- Listings have self-regulation fee to pay OneJury reviewers
- Source-code is public

These problems mean that someone can/will remove the OneJury from the coin thus making a cheaper alternative marketplace and ultimately defeating the purpose of OneJury in the first-place unfortunately BUT only if more people will use that coin and adopt it?

Will more people use the evil coin then cloak which will be held to a higher moral standard?

If I were to make a coin without OneJury...

Positives:
- Price of coin will skyrocket from dark-market use, especially because of PoSA features.

Negatives:
- Are we legally held responsible for bad posts?
- Moral concerns about the listings.

But since someone will ultimately do it 'anyways', does that mean that we need to be the coin that might as well do it first?

So question is: "Do we stay with OneJury and try to create a safe marketplace that will compete with the copy-cat dark market coin that is sure to follow (if we can), OR do we just make the coin completely free of all restrictions?"

I'm interested to see where the community wants to go.  I will program whatever it is we want as long as everyone is aware of the moral concerns involved.

::Possible Alternatives::

It's possible to add in a private listing feature so that dark-market users can still make postings, they will just not be searchable by the general public.  This would protect the general public with OneJury still, but still allow dark-market use which would happen anyways with a copycat clone.

Downsides:
- Listings are cheaper because of no need for OneJury Fee
- People might want to just always do 'private' listings to save money.  This could work if someone created a website for OneMarket where people go their to list their public key address and everyone just searches there to find listings instead of using OneMarkets interface (thus getting around OneJury and defeating the point).

Positives:
- Listings are cheaper because of no need for OneJury Fee.
- Might make it more legal for us??

We could also create 'two' coins, cloak which upholds a moral standards for a marketplace and another coin in which anything goes? Not sure this is much of an alternative though...

I'm still thinking of other alternatives but I'm curious to see what the community wants to do moving forward.  I'm getting some sleep for now but will update you on OneMarket progress once we decide what we want to do moving forward.

Its an open market, let people sell want they want and forget about OneJury

[chihbarb]

private listings/transactions that opt out of onejury fee (no fees = less liability correct?) sounds good. This means private listings will lose the search functions and ease of access provided by core ui and thus serve niche markets and face risk of discovery themselves for illegal activity. Sounds good to me, what am i missing?

[madmanbts]

::OneMarket Update::
So question is: "Do we stay with OneJury and try to create a safe marketplace that will compete with the copy-cat dark market coin that is sure to follow (if we can), OR do we just make the coin completely free of all restrictions?"

Here is what i think:
Q1. Can you make OneJury optional? I I were a serious business then I would probably chose to pay the OneJury fee. A darknet seller would not need this feature. So I say build it with OneJury but make it optional. What if there could be a filter? If I check the OpenJury option then the software will show only listings that have OpenJury, otherwise it will show everything or only listings without OpenJury
Q2. If Onemarket is opensource software then you can not be legally held for what other people do with the software. You will just release your work and then you have no possible way to ensure that nobody will use it for bad purposes. You are definitely not legally responsible, but only if the software is opensource and you don't host any part of it.

[yogibaer]

I'd say what is legal or what is illegal is always decided and regulated by a government never by the people/users living in this particular country and it's different form country to country.

Open source is great but in this case might be better not to be open source.

[Coolstoryteller]

private listings/transactions that opt out of onejury fee (no fees = less liability correct?) sounds good. This means private listings will lose the search functions and ease of access provided by core ui and thus serve niche markets and face risk of discovery themselves for illegal activity. Sounds good to me, what am i missing?

Not sure how private listing would = to discovery. The whole platform will have the same level of privacy and anonymity regardless if the listing is private or public.

[chihbarb]

i mean private listings would have to be broadcast by the listee if not integrated into search UI. I.E. you would have to find your target audience and risk discovery; private messaging people, using irc, or wherever to find customers. So if you sell something illicit or illegal (where you live) you are taking the risk of finding a customer outside of the UI to see your listing. You benefit from the escrow system and anonymization of transaction, but risk telling the wrong person about your illicit activities and risk discovery by authorities etc..

to me this seems like less liability for developers/average joe cloak person getting a onejury bounty.
this way we dont get authorities browsing all our listings all time looking for illegal activity and or entrapment issues?

[cd667]

I would prefer closed source code

[smokim87]

I would prefer closed source code

I say open source without onejury. You can't avoid illegal activity, people use paper money for illegal activity. With or without onejury there's still going to be illegal activity. People always find a way around it, doesn't matter what you do there's always a way.

Everything that was invented has its goods and bads, bitcoin is one example. I think we owe to the creator of bitcoin to have everything opensource. CLoak devs will always and forever be remembered for being the creators of onemarket and other features.

You guys haven't noticed how cryptos have evolved. Bitcoin was the first, litecoin the second copy but a better version then came pouring in the litecoin clones. New Algos were being created then anonymous features.

Bitcoin was the first crypto and still the 1st crypto in the world, copy cats are dead.
Litecoin is still the silver of cryptos and still strong even though there are better alts than it but it was the first scrypt coin. Copy cats are dead
Then came anonymous features: Darkcoin, first of its kind and look at it now, copy cats try to compete but are all crap and are dying/dead. (mostly Pump and dumps).
Next in line is Decentralized markets with real anon features, Cloak hopefully the first, there will be copy cats but Cloak will still be the first and the strongest. Copy cats live then die pretty quick (P&D coins once more).

A coin that comes up with a new innovation never dies and never gets taken over by another coin unless it has better innovations and features.

People will copy cloaks features eventually but crypto community evolve and figure out the copy cats are all shit coins eventually.

What I think is the real breakthrough that will make cloak is oneledger.

[x11joe]

:: One Market ::

I just wanted to point out some hidden benefits to OneJury.

In the past on craigslist there were lots of fake posts, like a post selling a TV and then you would get a hooker instead.

With OneJury this would be solved, and so in that regard makes the buyers experience much nicer going through the market.

OneJury does more then just stop illegal morally wrong postings is the point here, it helps stop spam too.

This means a copycat coin without OneJury would be victim to a lot of fake posts going on in there and possibly give a horrible user experience.

So we could keep OneJury but do private listings thus making a compromise possibly? Private listings would have same cost as doing any other listing + average OneJury Fee maybe?

[igor107th]

x11joe wat you tink is the best for us i think
good def whit good future go slow to the top
70 dollar cloak    lol

[Givatoshi_Moremoto]

:: One Market ::

I just wanted to point out some hidden benefits to OneJury.

In the past on craigslist there were lots of fake posts, like a post selling a TV and then you would get a hooker instead.

With OneJury this would be solved, and so in that regard makes the buyers experience much nicer going through the market.

OneJury does more then just stop illegal morally wrong postings is the point here, it helps stop spam too.

This means a copycat coin without OneJury would be victim to a lot of fake posts going on in there and possibly give a horrible user experience.

So we could keep OneJury but do private listings thus making a compromise possibly? Private listings would have same cost as doing any other listing + average OneJury Fee maybe?

How about keeping the Onejury for regular stuff and have Dark listing option that bypass the Onejury and seller pays HIGH fees (with mandatory trustless escrow) and have to click disclaimer that all illegal activity in dark market is the seller's legal obligation not the developer?