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Author Topic: [GLBSE] PureMining: Infinite-term, deterministic mining bond  (Read 34953 times)
Meni Rosenfeld
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April 25, 2012, 07:55:50 AM
 #121

All 10,000 bonds have been sold. That will be all for the near future. Thank you to all investors.

In other news, some (but not yet all) of the BFL single units have arrived. To anyone who wants this to feel a bit more "real", here is a photo (not all of the units are mine):


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May 01, 2012, 01:48:02 PM
 #122

Coupon payment summary for April 2012 (total 0.0183439763 BTC per bond):

Code:
Block number Timestamp        Timestamp (Unix) Elapsed time Difficulty Block reward Coupon    Status
177743    Apr 29 2012 11:50:02  1335700202          188328    1508589.67206 50        0.0014532954 Paid
177407    Apr 27 2012 07:31:14  1335511874          208629    1577913.48568 50        0.0015392233 Paid
177071    Apr 24 2012 21:34:05  1335303245          210537    1577913.48568 50        0.0015533002 Paid
176735    Apr 22 2012 11:05:08  1335092708          196334    1577913.48568 50        0.0014485132 Paid
176399    Apr 20 2012 04:32:54  1334896374          202079    1577913.48568 50        0.0014908987 Paid
176063    Apr 17 2012 20:24:55  1334694295          214922    1577913.48568 50        0.0015856518 Paid
175727    Apr 15 2012 08:42:53  1334479373          232779    1577913.48568 50        0.0017173972 Paid
175391    Apr 12 2012 16:03:14  1334246594          203256    1626553.48133 50        0.0014547393 Paid
175055    Apr 10 2012 07:35:38  1334043338          196855    1626553.48133 50        0.0014089262 Paid
174719    Apr 08 2012 00:54:43  1333846483          226725    1626553.48133 50        0.0016227111 Paid
174383    Apr 05 2012 09:55:58  1333619758          223984    1626553.48133 50        0.0016030933 Paid
174047    Apr 02 2012 19:42:54  1333395774          204861    1626553.48133 50        0.0014662266 Paid

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May 11, 2012, 12:27:33 PM
 #123

I will have very limited availability between May 20, 2012 and June 17, 2012. I have arranged for coupons to continue to be paid on schedule (there could be some delays on weekends, especially the one on May 27); but I may not be able to offer support or handle any unexpected situations. Those will be sorted out when I get back.

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May 11, 2012, 12:42:25 PM
 #124

Enjoy your holidays - or work. Whichever Smiley

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May 11, 2012, 12:47:07 PM
 #125

Enjoy your holidays - or work. Whichever Smiley
Oh, it's much worse than either. But probably not as bad as what may be your next guess.

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May 11, 2012, 01:03:58 PM
 #126

Enjoy your holidays - or work. Whichever Smiley
Oh, it's much worse than either. But probably not as bad as what may be your next guess.

Honeymoon?  Grin
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May 13, 2012, 04:49:53 PM
 #127

Enjoy your holidays - or work. Whichever Smiley
Oh, it's much worse than either. But probably not as bad as what may be your next guess.

Honeymoon?  Grin

Nickleback Concert?

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May 13, 2012, 05:24:35 PM
 #128

Enjoy your holidays - or work. Whichever Smiley
Oh, it's much worse than either. But probably not as bad as what may be your next guess.

Honeymoon?  Grin

Nickleback Concert?
Military reserve duty, also known here as "miluim".

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May 13, 2012, 05:31:12 PM
 #129



Oh, it's much worse than either. But probably not as bad as what may be your next guess.

Honeymoon?  Grin

Nickleback Concert?
Military reserve duty, also known here as "miluim".

Damn... Good luck and stay safe.

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May 13, 2012, 06:08:22 PM
 #130

Damn... Good luck and stay safe.
OT: damn, I'm dead certain that I heard that exact quote in your sig somewhere, but can't remember  Undecided

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May 13, 2012, 06:12:00 PM
 #131

Damn... Good luck and stay safe.
OT: damn, I'm dead certain that I heard that exact quote in your sig somewhere, but can't remember  Undecided

It's probably because I slipped you a roofie before I said it to you.

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May 29, 2012, 02:10:31 PM
 #132

Military reserve duty, also known here as "miluim".
Ok, it's going to be easier than I thought. I'll be at home for the next ~10 days, and even in camp I'll have some free time and internet access.

Anyway, I've been away for a week and they change everything. It'll take a while to catch up with everything that's been going on...

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June 06, 2012, 11:23:10 AM
 #133

Coupon payment summary for May 2012 (total 0.0186125703 BTC per bond):
Code:
Block number Timestamp        Timestamp (Unix) Elapsed time Difficulty Block reward Coupon    Bonds Total      Status
182111    May 29 2012 15:19:52  1338304792          209105    1591074.96185 50        0.0015299735 10000 15.2997350 Paid
181775    May 27 2012 05:14:47  1338095687          212718    1591074.96185 50        0.0015564090 10000 15.5640900 Paid
181439    May 24 2012 18:09:29  1337882969          236113    1733207.51385 50        0.0015859134 10000 15.8591340 Paid
181103    May 22 2012 00:34:16  1337646856          213765    1733207.51385 50        0.0014358074 10000 14.3580740 Paid
180767    May 19 2012 13:11:31  1337433091          214080    1733207.51385 50        0.0014379232 10000 14.3792320 Paid
180431    May 17 2012 01:43:31  1337219011          226703    1733207.51385 50        0.0015227088 10000 15.2270880 Paid
180095    May 14 2012 10:45:08  1336992308          215860    1733207.51385 50        0.0014498790 10000 14.4987900 Paid
179759    May 11 2012 22:47:28  1336776448          211237    1733207.51385 50        0.0014188274 10000 14.1882740 Paid
179423    May 09 2012 12:06:51  1336565211          162909    1508589.67206 50        0.0012571413 10000 12.5714130 Paid
179087    May 07 2012 14:51:42  1336402302          169607    1508589.67206 50        0.0013088286 10000 13.0882860 Paid
178751    May 05 2012 15:44:55  1336232695          183646    1508589.67206 50        0.0014171652 10000 14.1716520 Paid
178415    May 03 2012 12:44:09  1336049049          180252    1508589.67206 50        0.0013909743 10000 13.9097430 Paid
178079    May 01 2012 10:39:57  1335868797          168595    1508589.67206 50        0.0013010192 10000 13.0101920 Paid

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June 06, 2012, 11:26:31 AM
 #134

I will issue 5000 new bonds tomorrow, at a price which is to be determined.

In other news, more or less all of the units from the first BFL shipment have arrived; I will post more pictures once Inaba finishes tidying them up.

Update: Bonds have been issued, and offered for 0.37 BTC.

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June 17, 2012, 03:04:47 AM
 #135

How will puremining deal with the ASIC situation Meni?

I see NastyMining is going to change the value of their bonds to 20mh/s or something.

What are your thoughts on a MOORE type offering ?

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June 17, 2012, 04:50:26 AM
 #136

How will puremining deal with the ASIC situation Meni?

I see NastyMining is going to change the value of their bonds to 20mh/s or something.
PureMining is a deterministic bond, and it will continue to be 1 MH/s per bond. I don't increase it when something good happens any more than I decrease it when something bad happens, the contract is binding both ways.

Some issuers have offered to pass on gains from the BFL trade-in program. This makes sense given this disruptive event, I wish them the best of luck and investors who are confident in BFL's ability to deliver would do well to consider these offers. But that's not the market segment I'm in, I just want PureMining to continue faithfully filling its role of a deterministic bond long after the uncertainty of the current time is behind us.

BFL's announced specs are very impressive, but on the other hand they don't have a great track record of delivering what they promised on time. I will certainly take their announcement into consideration when deciding on the pricing of any future issued bonds, and investors should take it into account when deciding how much they are willing to pay.

What are your thoughts on a MOORE type offering ?
I think it's very interesting but ultimately I don't see the point. The issuer of a bond with a hardcoded appreciation in hashrate is speculating on what the future cost of hashrate will be, and he will have to compensate for this risk in his pricing. In a fixed-hashrate bond the issuer can much better estimate his cost of covering the bond, and can thus offer it at a more affordable price. Also, since the chosen appreciation rate is arbitrary, it stands in the way of standardization and commoditization.

I prefer the scenario where the issuer just offers more bonds if he wishes to expand utilizing new hardware opportunities, and investors can buy them if they wish to maintain or increase the value of their investment.

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June 17, 2012, 05:11:39 AM
 #137

I agree with most of your ideas. But as the issuer of MOORE, I have to make some comments.

Also, since the chosen appreciation rate is arbitrary, it stands in the way of standardization and commoditization.

Exactly. As I admitted in my main thread from the start, our bond is not fungible with deterministic bonds, so I have to do price discovery myself without the help of other people's prices. And I also admit that my pricing includes the compensation to many of my potential risks.

However, the strategy of MOORE is to make its price less prone to technology advances. For technology changes, there are gradual ones and disruptive ones. The policy of my current hard-code appreciation of hashrates aims to neutralize the first, and I will also cover the second with my new adjustments to the contract of my bonds.

I prefer the scenario where the issuer just offers more bonds if he wishes to expand utilizing new hardware opportunities, and investors can buy them if they wish to maintain or increase the value of their investment.

The essence of MOORE is I do the re-investment for them. Even if in the end the investors just get the same as the scenario they do re-investments themselves, the psychological effect of "our bond is not losing value as much as others are" is an advantage both for me and for the investors.

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June 17, 2012, 06:04:27 AM
 #138

I agree with most of your ideas. But as the issuer of MOORE, I have to make some comments.

Also, since the chosen appreciation rate is arbitrary, it stands in the way of standardization and commoditization.

Exactly. As I admitted in my main thread from the start, our bond is not fungible with deterministic bonds, so I have to do price discovery myself without the help of other people's prices. And I also admit that my pricing includes the compensation to many of my potential risks.

However, the strategy of MOORE is to make its price less prone to technology advances. For technology changes, there are gradual ones and disruptive ones. The policy of my current hard-code appreciation of hashrates aims to neutralize the first, and I will also cover the second with my new adjustments to the contract of my bonds.

I prefer the scenario where the issuer just offers more bonds if he wishes to expand utilizing new hardware opportunities, and investors can buy them if they wish to maintain or increase the value of their investment.

The essence of MOORE is I do the re-investment for them. Even if in the end the investors just get the same as the scenario they do re-investments themselves, the psychological effect of "our bond is not losing value as much as others are" is an advantage both for me and for the investors.
I agree but personally I don't feel the upside is worth the cost of less direct entanglement with the underlying hardware purchase. But I certainly don't deny that MOORE has a place catering to people for whom it is. In particular, it expands the space spanned by the available investment opportunities, giving sophisticated investors more flexibility in matching their portfolio to their future projections.

Regarding the psychological effect, it's mostly a product of what metric one is looking it. Currently GLBSE shows a graph of an asset price over time, and seeing a graph which is always in decline indeed looks bad. IMO the relevant metric is current price + coupons paid per unit so far. This gives a more accurate, intuitive picture of the viability of an asset, should look the same for functionally equivalent assets, and will show an upward trend for any successful investment.

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June 20, 2012, 03:47:38 PM
 #139

I will issue 5000 more bonds early next week.

The price will be somewhat lower than the last issue, to account for hardware advances and the increase in the BTC exchange rate, both of which mean that more hashrate can be bought per bitcoin.

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June 20, 2012, 05:37:57 PM
 #140

I've been asked about bulk/presale discounts. I'm not a fan of these things but I guess it couldn't hurt if done modestly and openly. So here are the terms:

1. Out of the 5000 bonds currently issued, up to 3000 are elligible for preordering.
2. Preorder must be at least 500 bonds.
3. Discount will be 2%. The actual price will be determined and disclosed when the bonds are offered publicly.
4. Preordered bonds will start to be delivered after bonds are publicly put on sale.
5. The preorder agreement isn't binding for either party. The buyer can cancel the order if he's unhappy with the price or for any other reason. I can also back out of the deal, but will only do that with a good reason.
6. If more bonds are preordered than available, buyers will be put on a waiting list. Bonds will be offered to buyers who are still interested in the order they requested the preorder.
7. Preordering is done under the understanding that the bonds will not be immediately resold.
8. Preorder request can be done by either posting in this thread or sending a PM.

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