Litecoin Is NOT Dead (It Is Just Dying A Slow Death)

[smoothie]

Ya there can't be any other reasonable explanation for people not seeing value in Litecoin...  

No one has been able to sufficiently counter my arguments, and Litecoiners are still ignoring that the free market agrees with me.

Litecoin is in denial. They are busy putting band aids on a gushing wound (new slogan, logo, video, etc.)

You guys will soon figure out that you can put a bow tie on a pig, but at the end of the day it's still a pig.

You haven't been able to sufficiently counter mine, either. Not with facts, anyway...just with counter-suppositions and prognostications.

Sorry, but the fact that around $30 million has been put into dedicated hardware infrastructure in Litecoin  Scrypt coins over the course of the last 6-8 weeks and a 120% increase in nethash since May 1st (around 340% since January) says more to me than some guy bellowing "Litecoin is dead" on a forum.

It's a good thing people haven't listened to those proclaiming "Bitcoin is dead" every time it had a significant price drop.

FYP

Anyways.. if you would have been around as long as I have, you would realize that price does not follow difficulty. It doesn't happen that way with Bitcoin, and I am sorry that Litecoin is no exception. Any old timers can back me up on this statement, noobs always think that is true and proclaim it to be so until they realize that it is not.

A 340% increase is pitiful when taking into account all of the Scrypt mining hardware that has been sold, further proof that most people mine purely for profit and could give two shits about protecting Litecoin's network. Multi pools and the newest pump and dump scams have much more hash power behind them when combined and compared to Litecoin's hash rate.

Or, we could just passively sit around and say, "CoinHoarder's right, it's all over" in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. But that wouldn't be terribly smart.

I don't expect you guys to give up, in fact I always expected the opposite. The problem is that you guys ignore honest criticism and brush it off as trolling.

Go back 10 months to August 2013 where difficulty kept rising and rising for 3 months straight which in turn pulled the price up in is own way.

Your theory doesn't always hold true. If you were around as long as I have you would know that your bolded statement isn't 100% true.

[1715457218]

1715457218

[1715457218]

1715457218

[1715457218]

1715457218

[1715457218]

1715457218

[smoothie]

Honestly...people in crypto these days have NO patience, whatsoever. The pump and dump mentality has overrun it.

Ya there can't be any other reasonable explanation for people not seeing value in Litecoin...  

No one has been able to sufficiently counter my arguments, and Litecoiners are still ignoring that the free market agrees with me.

Litecoin is in denial. They are busy putting band aids on a gushing wound (new slogan, logo, video, etc.)

You guys will soon figure out that you can put a bow tie on a pig, but at the end of the day it's still a pig.

i don't disagree with a lot of what you stated - and of course price does not chase difficulty however LTC at the moment is a better prospect than BTC so where does that leave us?

it soon becomes apparent that there are many "crypto scams" and few crypto currencies, if you take all the

obvious scams
PoS.
IPO.
and now ASIC driven crypto

out of the field,

what list do you have left?

its not a big one.

which to me is a perfect example of where crypto currency is at the moment, and actually is why i get quite bullish on the whole field.

I mostly agree with your post too, however I am getting really annoyed with everyone repeating the notion that all PoS coins and IPOs are scams. Some of them are sure, but not all of them and it is wrong to generalize them like that. Each of them need to be analyzed separately.

Funny hearing this from you who likes to generalize where "you guys" (as you put it) stand when it comes to the topic of Litecoin and its #2 spot and all of your myths etc etc.

If anyone is thinking that Coinhoarder claims to know how the Litecoin market works and can foresee what that market will be doing in the future of its target market (even from past predictions)...don't you think the guy would actually be able to have something in terms of success or profit that he could show as proof that he indeed knows what he is talking about?

I would think so.

All I hear in this thread from the OP is:

1. "My view on the LTC market is clear and you should take what I say seriously."

2. "My view although pretends to be a pinpoint of what I am trying to get across is actually one foot in the door and one foot out the door."

3. "I won't give you any accurate indication of what I think other than to generalize and put people into stereotypes in an attempt to be passively agressive all the while attempting/pretending that I know what I am talking about."

4. "I've made bad business decisions and personal life decisions yet even though these relate to the LTC market in some way, I still believe I am right even though I have not put anything on the line in terms of risk that has given me success in my predictions to show as proof that I do know what I am talking about. In fact the opposite has happened. I am broke, my business is in the gutter and I have nothing to show for it that my knowledge of how the LTC market works and how it will be in the future is accurate."

Anyone claiming "I know that LTC will fail and I have yet to be proven wrong" or "My predictions of the LTC market have been SPOT ON" and still has nothing to show for it but lame excuses for going MIA with his customers waiting and making promises of other projects that have yet to be paid out in terms of a bounty, is a wanna-be.

Actions will always speak louder. If you are successful in your predictions of a market and you believe those predictions yourself and not just say them to sound smart, you will see opportunity and capitalize on it and not just sit around flailing and failing on current businesses and past projects.

Cryptography altogether is a genie out of a bottle. Whether LTC fails or succeeds is irrelevant. I support LTC and will continue to do so as long as I see value in the network protocol and it also as a payment mechanism.

One last note: Coinhoarder what ever happened to this?

The first people that contacted me and paid, your stuff is on its way as of today. Sorry about the delay.. life is crazy right now. I will write some assembly instructions and post them here. Make sure to read them.. I had a customer brick his units by plugging in 5v power into the Gridseeds.

- If you have emailed me and not heard back from me, you will hear from me today.

- If you emailed me and don't want your stuff shipped back and want it hosted. I will have your things back up and running within the end of the week. I apologize for delay.. I'm still moving.

- If you opened a Paypal dispute, I cannot send your stuff to you I apologize. I literally have $0 in my pocket and my bank account is negative, I cannot cover your shipping. When you open a dispute, Paypal freezes the money. Email me to work something out.

I am giving you guys all accessories at no costs, and 1 special edition physical litecoin (worth ~$15 each unloaded on Ebay) per Gridseed you ordered (until supplies last I am not sure I have enough to do 1-1 for everyone.) I have these left over from people that didn't pay for them after the auctions. This is the only way I can somewhat make up for this as I have no coins or cash. I hope you appreciate it... as I have definitely lost a lot of time and money in this as well. I wasn't making much of anything selling these Gridseeds as it was- hosted units I literally made nothing after paying for accessories and was planning on making money from hosting fees. That obviously never happened.

I am going to take a long hiatus from the cryptocoin community after this is cleared up. I will not continue any businesses I have started, I need to eliminate stress as much as possible from my life. I admit I am young (27) and still have a lot to learn. I have made some mistakes and I am sorry about that. I wish things would have gone better, but it most of it was out of my control. I literally do not know how I am going to eat tonight. I am now living with my sister, first night here she's like "I'm seeing this guy and he's gonna stay the night tonight." I'm thinking to myself... fuck my life. I told someone in email, but since I delayed even more I will explain it to you publicly. I have been having problems with depression the past 6 months or so. It has been hard for me to live a normal life, it is why I lost my job. I have suffered with depression off and on my whole life, but lately I have been the worst I've ever been. I would totally kill myself right now if I didn't have a family that would be devastated. I can't do that to them... I need to learn to be strong and teach myself how to be happy again. I have been going through some really tough times, all I am asking for is a little understanding.

Please just have patience and this whole thing will be fixed shortly. I am still moving.. no A/C at my old place or the warehouse in 90+ degree weather... by myself. This is why I have been slow to respond and send everything back. I will try to make an effort to be better about responding etc so we can get this cleared up once and for all.

Thanks.

It doesn't surprise me that your word means nothing even in a statement like that.

People do your own due diligence when attempting to garner information/wisdom from another person here as many like to say things and not back it up with actions. Talk is cheap.

 

[CoinHoarder]

Go back 10 months to August 2013 where difficulty kept rising and rising for 3 months straight which in turn pulled the price up in is own way.

Your theory doesn't always hold true. If you were around as long as I have you would know that your bolded statement isn't 100% true.

1. It's not a theory
2. Yes it is true

If price does not always follow difficulty, that means price doesn't follow difficulty. IF price goes down while difficulty goes up, how can you say price follows difficulty? Answer: You can't unless you want to ignore all the times that it doesn't. To state otherwise is blasphemy.

Perhaps you could say "sometimes price follows difficulty", but the statement "price follows difficulty" is not true. There are many other factors at play than simply difficulty as I stated, funny how you ignore that. You guys just cherry pick things that suite your argument, and I address every point you bring up. I have brought up a lot of good points ITT that you guys continually ignore.

[CoinHoarder]

Funny hearing this from you who likes to generalize where "you guys" (as you put it) stand when it comes to the topic of Litecoin and its #2 spot and all of your myths etc etc.

If anyone is thinking that Coinhoarder claims to know how the Litecoin market works and can foresee what that market will be doing in the future of its target market (even from past predictions)...don't you think the guy would actually be able to have something in terms of success or profit that he could show as proof that he indeed knows what he is talking about?

I would think so.

You like repeating yourself don't you? You like telling the world how stupid and horrible of a person I am over and over. Yet, you can't refute most of my arguments in this thread.. you just ignore them. Funny how that works. I am pretty sure you keep doing because you think I will stop if you keep telling people about all the "horrible" things I've done. That's not going to happen Smoothie, why don't you man up and refute my arguments?

You bring up history as if everything in the past happens the same way in the future, and as if the dynamics haven't vastly changed since two years ago. You are so invested and have been supporting Litecoin you hate to see it fail, you hate that I am pointing out why Litecoin is a crap coin, and you have a personal vendetta against me since I called your physical Litecoins overpriced. Just admit it bro, everyone can tell.  

My original choices of crypto coin investments have gone up a lot in value... Bitcoin and Litecoin. However, as I've stated a lot has changed since then and the free market is reflecting that. You are simply in denial. I have had a few things happen to me in the past couple years that I had to cash out my coins to FIAT... shit happens. Yeah, I didn't get rich but it doesn't mean that I was wrong and now everything I have to say is invalidated. Maybe to you it does, but I am sure that everyone else can read what I have to say and see the sense in it. Again, look at what the free market has decided. If I am such an idiot, prove me wrong.  

All I hear in this thread from the OP is:

1. "My view on the LTC market is clear and you should take what I say seriously."

You guys haven't convinced me that I'm wrong yet. TheMage is the only one that has put a valid effort forward to do so. I will retreat and admit I am wrong if you can do so. All you seem to be able to do it point at me say "he's dumb dumb, he's bad man, no listen to him."

2. "My view although pretends to be a pinpoint of what I am trying to get across is actually one foot in the door and one foot out the door."

What do you mean by this?

3. "I won't give you any accurate indication of what I think other than to generalize and put people into stereotypes in an attempt to be passively agressive all the while attempting/pretending that I know what I am talking about."

I've been the most thorough person in this thread when it comes to what I believe, lol @ "I won't give you an accurate indication of what I think". I've explained everything very clearly, you must not be able to read?

If I don't know what I'm talking about, then point out how I am wrong.

Anyone claiming "I know that LTC will fail and I have yet to be proven wrong" or "My predictions of the LTC market have been SPOT ON" and still has nothing to show for it but lame excuses for going MIA with his customers waiting and making promises of other projects that have yet to be paid out in terms of a bounty, is a wanna-be.

You don't know my life story, a lot of things have happened to me over the past couple years. Sorry I couldn't sit on a big pile of coins like your holyness Smoothie. Apparently almost being homeless is not an excuse to Smoothie for going MIA. I am not a bad person, I am back and trying to work everything out and pay my debts. Scammers don't do that.

Again, the dynamics have changed a lot since then, and you have not been able to prove me wrong. You can only sling personal insults at me instead of pointing out how I am wrong. It's the same argument over and over, that's literally all you have on me since you can't refute my arguments.

Actions will always speak louder. If you are successful in your predictions of a market and you believe those predictions yourself and not just say them to sound smart, you will see opportunity and capitalize on it and not just sit around flailing and failing on current businesses and past projects.

You don't know my life story, we are not friends. I believe in what I am saying, until someone points out to me why specifically that I am wrong. Again, all you can do is insult me.

Cryptography altogether is a genie out of a bottle. Whether LTC fails or succeeds is irrelevant. I support LTC and will continue to do so as long as I see value in the network protocol and it also as a payment mechanism.

That's like saying I like girls as long as they are skinny, average weight, and fat. You just described every crypto currency in existence that wasn't a scam. Does that mean they are all good investments?

One last note: Coinhoarder what ever happened to this?

It doesn't surprise me that your word means nothing even in a statement like that.

People do your own due diligence when attempting to garner information/wisdom from another person here as many like to say things and not back it up with actions. Talk is cheap.

Literally all you can do is insult me, you can't refute my arguments. You are really making a good argument for Litecoin.  

The reason why I started this thread was because you were talking shit about me, and also talking shit about my reason for leaving Litecoin. I am proving that I had real reasons why not to support Litecoin anymore. All you do is ignore them and insult me. It is obvious to everyone that you can't refute my arguments, as Litecoin continues to drop like a rock.

[CoinHoarder]

Hm, it is getting boring to me to hear the Litecoin faithful repeat the same mantras over and over, which I have refuted in detail, but none of them seem to be able to come up with a good retort. So, I will summarize here for those that may not have been following the thread. I may repeat some things I've already said, but that's just because no one has come up with a good answer for them yet. There are more half truths that they are spreading, but these seem to be the most common.

Myth #1: Trolls have called Litecoin dead before, but it hasn't happened yet, so that means it is not happening right now.

Logic Re: Myth #1: Most of the "Litecoin is dead" threads they refer to to make this point were from one to two years ago. I do agree that Litecoin was an easy choice back then to be the #2 crypto and was unlikely to die for obvious reasons. I myself defended back then. However, the dynamics of the free market have changed greatly since then. There wasn't really a good alternative to Litecoin or Bitcoin back then. Since then there have been numerous cryptos that have quicker block times, more features, more innovative proof of work protocol or alternatives, just as big of communities, and more developers. In an industry that moves as fast as cryptos are moving, you can't hold onto tired old mantras such as this when the dynamics have changed vastly. Due to rapid technological advancements, and the competition being innovative and forward thinking, companies can become obsolete very fast and I see no reason why this does not hold true with crypto currencies. When it comes to Myth #1, Litecoiners are living in the past. By the way, Smoothie hasn't figured this out yet and I guess there are probably others too, so I will explain it. The title of this thread is poking fun at the other "Litecoin is dead" threads and is a satirical hook. I thought it was a pretty catchy title myself, but maybe that's just me.

Myth #2: The Network Effect... cause just because.... The Network Effect.

Logic Re: Myth #2: I have already covered the network effect extensively in this thread and no one from the Litecoin camp seems to be able to come up with a good retort. The network effect is very powerful, however the network effect is exponentially more powerful for Bitcoin than it is for Litecoin. It is Bitcoin that is in the news all day every day, not Litecoin. Litecoin does get more attention than most other alternative crypto currencies, as they should because they are the guys to beat right now. This could change quickly, and if you read my examples of innovative companies completely killing less innovative companies, you will understand what I mean. I agree Litecoin has it's own network effect, however it is not nearly as strong as Bitcoin's network effect. Search Bitcoin in Google news and tell me how many articles pop up, then do the same for Litecoin, there will be many less articles about Litecoin. Litecoin has a small network effect that is somewhat limited within people engaged in the crypto currency community, however Bitcoin's network effect stretches much wider than that. Since Litecoin's network effect is limited somewhat to people engaged in the community, they are more likely to look at Litecoin for what it is.. Bitcoin with a few changed parameters. When it comes to Myth #2, Litecoiners are in denial.

Myth #3: Innovation does not translate into acceptance or success.

Logic Re: Myth #3: Sure, innovation doesn't equal acceptance or success on its own merits, however it certainly helps. The more innovative coins that have been released in the past year are sitting on top end of the crypto market cap list, and the cryptos that didn't are sitting at the bottom. According to Litecoiners this is purely coincidence... Furthermore, acceptance and therefore success will come for the most innovative cryptos as it is easier to determine who the leader of the pack is. Right now it is a hard decision as to what cryptocoin 2.0 protocol has the best chance for success, so payment processors and exchanges are hesitant to add them to their services (although the most forward thinking ones have already done so.) Over time this will work itself out. In the Field Of Dreams the saying goes, "if you build it they will come". I like this line of thinking when it comes to cryptos. Although they might not be widely adopted right when they come out, I believe that eventually (if there is added substance and value on top of Bitcoin/Litecoin) it is only a matter of time before the crypto community comes. (wow.. that totally didn't sound right..   ).

Myth #4: Litecoin is accepted at more merchants than other alternative currencies (as to a reason for it still being a good long term investment).

Logic Re: Myth #4: Sometimes cryptos (Litecoin or Bitcoin) are being used to transfer money and make purchases, however most users are still using them as a speculative vehicle to make money. If you really think that Litecoin is being used everywhere for ecommerce, then I have a bridge to sell you. When I had a physical crypto business I offered two ways to pay, through Paypal and through Coinpayments.net. I would venture to guesstimate that 95% of the orders were made using Paypal. The answer as to why is obvious, since cryptos have been going up in value so much over the past couple years, no one wants to spend their cryptos and would much rather use FIAT. This was only about 6 months ago, and I can guarantee you it has not changed much since then. Furthermore, the popularity of multi-coin payment processors are going to accelerate the adoption of newer innovative cryptos. As merchants demand more payment options for the convenience of their customers to receive more business, payment processors will adopt the most popular and valuable cryptos (which I am speculating will be the most innovative ones).

This is only a fraction of my arguments against Litecoin, lets start with these.

Prove me wrong Smoothie.

Man up and stop skating around the issues at hand.

[FreeJack2k2]

I'd venture to say I have a better idea of how much hardware has been sold than you, seeing as though I used to distribute Gridseed mining hardware, and had contacts high up on the food chain in those regards. Sure, I agree a 10% increase is pitiful compared to a 120% increase, but anyone that knows anything knows that Dogecoin is crap so I'm not sure what your point is in that comparison.

Your experience selling 300kh hardware released in February does not give you any specific or applicable knowledge about numbers related to the latest 80mh hardware.

The point of the Dogecoin reference is to help you with your definition of "pitiful."

Actually.. people that are mining on multi pools are usually making more profit than people mining purely Litecoin. It is ridiculous to refute this fact, if you had any hands on experience then you would know so. Sure they have less liquidity, but it doesn't mean a higher profit can't be made mining something other than Litecoin, in fact it is a preposterous statement to say that multi pools are less profitable than purely mining Litecoin, or any coin for that matter. The same could be said for sha256 mining. If you aren't making more money in the long term on a multi pool, then you are on a crappy multi pool. Not all multi pools are as profitable as others due to the different techniques used.

First of all, what is profitable for someone with 5mh is not the same as what is profitable for someone with 50, in coin switching. The coins they mine are so illiquid that coins sit unexchanged and often by the time the market absorbs them, the price has been driven down to the point where it was less profitable. Yes, I have firsthand experience with this dynamic. Profit switching is only going to get worse.

Ok, so you're not a noob, but you are clueless if you think price follows difficulty. You are ignoring all the money flowing into the infrastructure of Bitcoin. You are so focused on mining hardware that you can't realize the big picture. With Bitcoin much more of that money was also spent on things such as payment processors, exchanges, services, and protocols on top of Bitcoin. This isn't happening with Litecoin on the same scale it is happening with Bitcoin, at least not to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars like Bitcoin. The reason for the price hike was many factors, and you seem to be insinuating that it is purely because of Bitcoin ASICs which is a ludicrous statement. Look in the project development and development subforums here and compare it to the Litecoin forums... a large percentage of money going into Litecoin is going into purely mining hardware, whereas with Bitcoin its being spread around all over the place. Stop acting like you have it all figured out when you are obviously clueless.

If price follows difficulty, then tell me why the Bitcoin price has not followed this trend the past 6 months? https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate

If you want more examples, they are numerous and I would be happy to provide them to you. It would be easier if you just did the research yourself though.

When the option to find another more profitable coin to mine is no longer there, dumping will no longer be economically feasible. Hoarding will force price to move, as long as the increased strength and growth stimulates interest and press (which it will). It is not a direct correlation, it is symptomatic. Demand drives price. Security and reliability (strength) drives demand.

And by the way...don't fix my post when you don't know what you're talking about. That $30million number I posted was calculated based on the increase in Litecoin's network hashrate since the introduction of the 80MH/s models from Innosilicon, Zeusminer and Silverfish at an average wholesale cost of $9000 per 80MH/s device. I know you fancy yourself quite the know-it-all here, but you don't have your facts straight.

That's all good and nice, and it would be applicable to the debate if price followed difficulty. However, your statement is based on a flawed premise that price follows difficulty, and that mining hardware investments for Bitcoin are the only reason Bitcoin's price has gone up. When in fact it has been proven over the years during the numerous ups and downs that price does not follow difficulty, and also ignoring all the money going into many different aspects of the Bitcoin infrastructure.. not just mining hardware.

Furthermore, Litecoin having the most secure ALT coin network is a flat out lie. Most of the coins in the top 10 market cap are not Scrypt coins. Sure, you have the most secure SCRYPT alt coin. Everyone knows pretty much all Scrypt coins are crap, so you guys are like king of the crap coins. Congratulations, that's a huge accomplishment. The newer more innovative coins don't need to waste millions in electricity spitting out useless strings of data to secure their block chains, meanwhile subjecting their miners to pre-order scams and shady mining manufacturers. Nor do they have to worry about centralization of the network further down the road like all ASIC mine-able coins will have to succumb to.

Don't mix arguments. Price following difficulty or not has zero bearing on the calculation of how much money has been put into hardware infrastructure in the last 6-8 weeks.

You spend a lot of time justifying your points with "everyone knows." The discussion about energy efficiency is not germane to the discussion of security, either. Bitcoin doesn't get it wrong.This supposition you seem to have that we need something with more bells and whistles is symptomatic of the "pump and dump" mentality that has overrun alt coins, where some trivial or pointless (or untenable) "feature" is used to craft a plausible story to back a "pump." They are all houses of cards.

I know you won't be convinced, and I don't feel compelled to try and sway you. You are just wrong , and your conclusions are based not on precedent and facts, but emotional conjecture and, I assume, a motivation (conscious or otherwise) to pump your new favorites by discrediting the reigning #2. You're barking up the wrong tree.

[bezekal]

Ltc has issues since asics....

what is its use case v btc.

The only possible argument is it may have a better distribution that BTC, because of GPU's.....and perhaps algo back up.

Beyond that....what.


This is why I hold peercoin as well, it has a clear use case that no other coin has even attempted. Its sort of like trying to explain crypto to fiats, explaining peercoin to BTC/Alts. The problem is most people can't get thier head around where the real money is in the economy and its not in retail that most clamor for.....eg my Amazon/ebay/paypal


That said I still cant bring myself to part with a single LTC.

  litecoin "dying".... i dont know any alt coins that aren't "dying" to be honest.

that is true! pump n dump!

[smoothie]

Go back 10 months to August 2013 where difficulty kept rising and rising for 3 months straight which in turn pulled the price up in is own way.

Your theory doesn't always hold true. If you were around as long as I have you would know that your bolded statement isn't 100% true.

1. It's not a theory
2. Yes it is true

If price does not always follow difficulty, that means price doesn't follow difficulty. IF price goes down while difficulty goes up, how can you say price follows difficulty? Answer: You can't unless you want to ignore all the times that it doesn't. To state otherwise is blasphemy.

Perhaps you could say "sometimes price follows difficulty", but the statement "price follows difficulty" is not true. There are many other factors at play than simply difficulty as I stated, funny how you ignore that. You guys just cherry pick things that suite your argument, and I address every point you bring up. I have brought up a lot of good points ITT that you guys continually ignore.

I gave you one of a few actual instances where Price followed difficulty.

Nice try refuting that and saying "Yes it is true and not a theory".

Your theory equates to "100% of the time Price does not follow Difficulty" or "100% of the time Difficulty Follows Price".

My example breaks your claim. It is funny that you ignore that.

The more you post it appears it seems this entire thread is an attempt to ego boost yourself out of your own failures in life and in the crypto world.

I've outted you as one who makes claims and promises and most of the time fails to deliver as he promised. Just like now when I gave you a specific example of where your flawed theory is incorrect you try to justify why you are "right".

lol You are truly pathetic.

[smoothie]

you hate that I am pointing out why Litecoin is a crap coin, and you have a personal vendetta against me since I called your physical Litecoins overpriced. Just admit it bro, everyone can tell.

Okay so we have established a few things:

1. You think Litecoin is a crap coin.

Although I don't hate it at all that you call it a crap coin but you were just supporting it not long ago. I think it is rather funny. PRESUMPTUOUS ARE WE that I hate it when you do that?  

2. You think I have a personal vendetta against you because you called my physical Litecoins overpriced.

lol that is funny. To be clear no I am not mad about that. You can have your opinion of what you think about my coins. I'm thick skinned unlike you who runs and whines at the first sign of opposition.

My whole entire motto on this forum from day 1 has been to call out people's bullshit. Coinhoarder you have made so many claims and promises that you never fulfilled and that is the bullshit I call out. Not to mention how you presume to claim you know that "smart money" isn't smart (or that smart) despite you being dumb money yourself by your own track record.

Remember this where you made a claim and it couldn't have been further from the truth?

I'm not going to waste my time arguing with Smoothie anymore. Apparently, in Smoothie's court of law, libel must be proven by the person who wrote the statement. However, in the real world, Libel must be proven by the person who gets defamed. If Smoothie truly feels like I have spread libel against his company, I welcome him to lawyer up and do something about it. Until then, all he can do is blow hot air.

This is my last statement on Smoothie. Today is a new day, and I am going to just ignore any future trolling attempts by arguably my biggest competitor. I think he is scared I might kill the golden goose only a couple of months into its existence. It is what it is.

I just consumed the first Chocolate Litecoin.. it's possibly the first chocolate Litecoin ever in existence.. pretty cool! They look absolutely beautiful, I will post pics soon. I need to get someone to let me borrow a better camera than what's on my droid. I'm going to try and do that tonight.

Cheers,

Ch

My response: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=1940.msg45262#msg45262

Passive aggressive are we?

The odd thing is you actually think that your comments are damaging my rep. My rep is based on calling out BS (the old Smoothie). Now given the fact that I've openly said "not that I doubt you..." but asked you to prove your claims and you obviously can't, it goes to show that perhaps making claims you can't backup isn't your best approach as a sales tactic.

When making said claims it would be wise to keep your comments to your own coins as opposed to bringing other (pretty much "all other coins") into said comments/sales pitches.

"Trolling" in your book is asking simple questions to get at actual proof of said claims.

I've made my point many times over now. I'll let you believe what you want.

Oh and your bolded statement made me laugh. 

And as I said here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289668.msg3121113#msg3121113

Good luck to you sir. 

Well we both know how that statement turned out. I just laughed at you when you made that comment and that sentence never materialized.


Much of your arguments in this thread are so generalized that you have so much wiggle room to get out of what you really are saying or claiming. Not to mention that some of your claims are with one foot in the door and one out of the door as if you are riding the fence. If you had a track record of being correct and had proof of risk you took to support your claims in the past predictions you made (and were successful with proof) I would be more inclined to listen to your arguments but that is not the case. You are just a guy on a forum who needs an ego boost given all of your recent failures in crypto and in your personal life.

My track record (asided from being the "troll" that calls people's bullshit out) is clear on this forum.

[CoinHoarder]

I'd venture to say I have a better idea of how much hardware has been sold than you, seeing as though I used to distribute Gridseed mining hardware, and had contacts high up on the food chain in those regards. Sure, I agree a 10% increase is pitiful compared to a 120% increase, but anyone that knows anything knows that Dogecoin is crap so I'm not sure what your point is in that comparison.

Your experience selling 300kh hardware released in February does not give you any specific or applicable knowledge about numbers related to the latest 80mh hardware.

The point of the Dogecoin reference is to help you with your definition of "pitiful."

I conceded earlier that Litecoin is the most secure Scrypt coin, and admittedly I haven't had time to keep up with the Litecoin network hash rate as I have been moving, so I will assume that you are correct that Litecoin's SCRYPT hashrate is bigger than all other Scrypt coins combined.

The problem is that argument is invalid as to a reason why it should be chosen as an investment above one that can't be mined at all (any purely PoS variant.) Furthermore, both Bitcoiners and Litecoins mostly ignore the fact of all the wasted electricity and computing power that is being consumed/wasted by PoW and fail to see the importance of PoS-like schemes and scientific coins such as Primecoin. One solves the electricity problem and the other solves the waste of processing power. They both solve a problem, all Litecoin does is speed up the block time and increase coin numbers which can also be done on a coin that solves a problem such as the examples AKA. innovative.

I'm not saying that finding Prime numbers is going to change the world, but if one useful thing was developed I am hopeful that someone will find a way to figure out something that will. Also, it is debatable which form of PoS is the best and it is still not an exact science yet, I feel like the answer is close if not here already. It's hard to keep up with all the tweaks to PoS people have done. Again, both of these are innovative and solve problems, meanwhile all Litecoin does is speed up the block time and increase coin numbers which can also be done on a coin that solves a problem such as the examples AKA. innovative.

Actually.. people that are mining on multi pools are usually making more profit than people mining purely Litecoin. It is ridiculous to refute this fact, if you had any hands on experience then you would know so. Sure they have less liquidity, but it doesn't mean a higher profit can't be made mining something other than Litecoin, in fact it is a preposterous statement to say that multi pools are less profitable than purely mining Litecoin, or any coin for that matter. The same could be said for sha256 mining. If you aren't making more money in the long term on a multi pool, then you are on a crappy multi pool. Not all multi pools are as profitable as others due to the different techniques used.

First of all, what is profitable for someone with 5mh is not the same as what is profitable for someone with 50, in coin switching. The coins they mine are so illiquid that coins sit unexchanged and often by the time the market absorbs them, the price has been driven down to the point where it was less profitable. Yes, I have firsthand experience with this dynamic. Profit switching is only going to get worse.

You need to find yourself a better multi scrypt (see argument #1) coin pool. They do not all switch the same, exchange coins right away, etc.. they all have different strategies. If I was a smart multi coin pool operator, I would point a percentage of the pool to each of the coins that are more profitable to further negate anything that could happen in the market, and again exchange them quickly (as to your other point.) Also point a higher percentage of the pool's hash rate if you're risk adverse (or lower if you're risk prone) towards more stable currencies. Coinshift introduced slowly switching in between different coins instead of instantly switching them.. there are a lot of ways you can go about it. Use an exchange like Crypsty to automatically exchange coins as fast as you can, you can set it to auto trade for you, or wait a set amount of time for the market to adjust back up from the other multi pools dumping. There are a lot of ways you can go about it, I guarantee you some have put more thought into their strategies than others and you can see it on charts like the following. You can see there are some multi pools that consistently mine above what simply mining Litecoin could: http://i.snag.gy/9QOQN.jpg

Ok, so you're not a noob, but you are clueless if you think price follows difficulty. You are ignoring all the money flowing into the infrastructure of Bitcoin. You are so focused on mining hardware that you can't realize the big picture. With Bitcoin much more of that money was also spent on things such as payment processors, exchanges, services, and protocols on top of Bitcoin. This isn't happening with Litecoin on the same scale it is happening with Bitcoin, at least not to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars like Bitcoin. The reason for the price hike was many factors, and you seem to be insinuating that it is purely because of Bitcoin ASICs which is a ludicrous statement. Look in the project development and development subforums here and compare it to the Litecoin forums... a large percentage of money going into Litecoin is going into purely mining hardware, whereas with Bitcoin its being spread around all over the place. Stop acting like you have it all figured out when you are obviously clueless.

If price follows difficulty, then tell me why the Bitcoin price has not followed this trend the past 6 months? https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate

If you want more examples, they are numerous and I would be happy to provide them to you. It would be easier if you just did the research yourself though.

When the option to find another more profitable coin to mine is no longer there, dumping will no longer be economically feasible. Hoarding will force price to move, as long as the increased strength and growth stimulates interest and press (which it will). It is not a direct correlation, it is symptomatic. Demand drives price. Security and reliability (strength) drives demand.

Sorry, but there will usually always be a more profitable Scrypt coin (again see argument #1). It has been like that for a long time, and I don't see it changing anytime soon. Do to market dynamics and mining dynamics Litecoin will never consistently stay at the top of the Scrypt coin profitable list. I say this because since the release of web sites like coinchoose, coinwarz, etc.. historically Litecoin is not at the top of that list, or even in the top 3 or 5. Sure, it is usually at least top 10 and sometimes #1, however the majority of the time there are others that would be more profitable. Go to any site you choose this very moment as you can see there are a few that are more profitable to mine than Litecoin. If Litecoin is the most profitable coin to mine, then more people jump on it making the difficulty go up and making other coins more profitable (visa versa with all other Scrypt coins.)

http://coinchoose.com/litecoin.php
http://www.coinwarz.com/miningprofitability/litecoin
http://dustcoin.com/

And by the way...don't fix my post when you don't know what you're talking about. That $30million number I posted was calculated based on the increase in Litecoin's network hashrate since the introduction of the 80MH/s models from Innosilicon, Zeusminer and Silverfish at an average wholesale cost of $9000 per 80MH/s device. I know you fancy yourself quite the know-it-all here, but you don't have your facts straight.

That's all good and nice, and it would be applicable to the debate if price followed difficulty. However, your statement is based on a flawed premise that price follows difficulty, and that mining hardware investments for Bitcoin are the only reason Bitcoin's price has gone up. When in fact it has been proven over the years during the numerous ups and downs that price does not follow difficulty, and also ignoring all the money going into many different aspects of the Bitcoin infrastructure.. not just mining hardware.

Furthermore, Litecoin having the most secure ALT coin network is a flat out lie. Most of the coins in the top 10 market cap are not Scrypt coins. Sure, you have the most secure SCRYPT alt coin. Everyone knows pretty much all Scrypt coins are crap, so you guys are like king of the crap coins. Congratulations, that's a huge accomplishment. The newer more innovative coins don't need to waste millions in electricity spitting out useless strings of data to secure their block chains, meanwhile subjecting their miners to pre-order scams and shady mining manufacturers. Nor do they have to worry about centralization of the network further down the road like all ASIC mine-able coins will have to succumb to.

Don't mix arguments. Price following difficulty or not has zero bearing on the calculation of how much money has been put into hardware infrastructure in the last 6-8 weeks.

All these arguments are related and it is hard not to discuss some things without mentioning others. It is the overall picture I am more worried about. You act like money being put into mining hardware (Scrypt ASICs and power hungry PoW) are a good thing. Sure, if you like oligarchies and killing planet earth at an accelerated rate they are a good thing. Your coin is more secure than all Scrypt coins, but it comes at the cost of electricity and centralization. Just wait until the VCs and bankers start mining... we haven't seen nothing yet when it comes to difficulty increases in Bitcoin/Litecoin. Eventually it will become quite centralized and definitely unprofitable (if it isn't already... that's debatable) to anyone without extremely deep pockets.

You spend a lot of time justifying your points with "everyone knows."

I will try to refrain from that in the future and provide more facts and links such as I have in this post. It is a fact tho that price does not follow difficulty.. it's not even debatable see my reply to Smoothie (if that's what you were referring to.)

The discussion about energy efficiency is not germane to the discussion of security, either. Bitcoin doesn't get it wrong.

I agree, but energy efficiency should be a factor in choosing an electronic currency, no? Do you leave your car running 24/7 also? Bitcoin DOES have it wrong. I feel the same about Bitcoin as to this point, PoW, and ASICs. This is a big part of the whole idea I am trying to convey that Litecoin simply is copying Bitcoin's mistakes. If it doesn't have anything innovative to stand on its own, it will become irrelevant if anything overtakes Bitcoin, which is more possible than everyone would like to believe.

This supposition you seem to have that we need something with more bells and whistles is symptomatic of the "pump and dump" mentality that has overrun alt coins, where some trivial or pointless (or untenable) "feature" is used to craft a plausible story to back a "pump." They are all houses of cards.

In all seriousness, it's funny that you just described my exact opinion of Litecoin in the above paragraph. Except you over generalize in the last statement "they are all a house of cards." Sure, most of them are I agree... even 95% or more of them are, I also agree. Not all of them are gimmicks and only make minor changes (cough... Litecoin.) There are many very innovative coins in development and coins that already exist that are going to really shake up the whole ALT coin scene due to their features and innovation. Most of the coins in the past have been pump and dumps I agree (cough... Litecoin,) but some people are really trying to change the way people think about and use crypto currency.

Some features may seem unnecessary.... or as you guys like to put it a "gimmick", however people like features. What don't you guys understand about this? Sure, Bitcoin and Litecoin work just the way they are. What may seem gimmicky to you might totally sell another person on a crypto currency. The more features you add the more likely someone is going to find crypto currencies useful, specifically the one that has the features they like. You guys may be fine with Bitcoin/Litecoin how it is, but I know I am not alone in saying that I want more features. There is literally no amount of features that I would deem too many. If that feature gains one new user to the crypto currency, then it was a success.

Obviously some features are more useful/valuable than others. This is where the I think you guys (Smoothie doesn't like me saying you guys, but I keep hearing different people make the same arguments. It is easier for me to address all of you at the same time) overgeneralize that everything is a gimmick because there certainly have been some gimmicky changes to scam coins in the past (cough... Litecoin.) All of the coins that will be worth anything actually add useful features that at least someone (ME!) will want to use, I venture to guess I am not alone, and the market has agreed with that guess.

Bitcoin/Litecoin will never replace or take a huge market share from FIAT if more features aren't added. The average sheeple don't mind eating the fees and inflation of FIAT and Debit/Credit cards etcetra. We need to give them more incentive to use crypto currencies. By adding utility to money it makes it more valuable and makes it even more so different from the rather boring FIAT/BTC/LTC. Money doesn't have to specifically be used to pay for things, newer crypto currencies are redefining what people think money should be and what it should be used for. It could be used to do just about anything, and there is no reason why it shouldn't be used for more things than simply make payments.

I know you won't be convinced, and I don't feel compelled to try and sway you. You are just wrong , and your conclusions are based not on precedent and facts, but emotional conjecture and, I assume, a motivation (conscious or otherwise) to pump your new favorites by discrediting the reigning #2. You're barking up the wrong tree.

That's incorrect, I haven't decided which new coin I will invest in. I probably won't have money to for a while. I've been supporting Litecoin for about 2 years and I was only Litecoin rich for a few months when something happened in my life and I needed to cash out all my coins to live on. They have increased a lot in value since then and I wish I was able to hold onto them. It was a very hard decision to not support Litecoin anymore, and I did so long after I didn't own any Litecoins. Believe me, I lobbied hard and LOUD for change on litecointalk.org and no one listened. Now I am laying everything out here and trying to wake you guys up. You can still fix all these problems.

[CoinHoarder]

Litecoiners in full force tonight!

Give me 10-15 to get back to you Smoothie.

[smoothie]

In case anyone here missed the original post where Coinhoarder decided to leave Litecoin because of his own reasoning. Here it is for others to dissect if they wish:

LINK: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=1940.msg157795#msg157795

Hi all,

Due to a conflict of interest I will no longer be making physical Litecoins and am abandoning my plans to make future editions of physical Litecoins. I am planning on continuing this venture, but I will no longer be minting physical Litecoins.. it will be for other cryptocoins. The main reason for this is that I have lost all interest in Litecoin and no longer see it as a good investment. It has taken me a while to get to this point and there is really no one reason in particular, but a few things stand out above the rest. I brought up some ideas to the community and the Litecoin developers about building a protocol on top of Litecoin, and was largely ignored and patronized. There is a very dangerously lethargic mindset that seems to be a common way of thinking that exists in Litecoiner's heads, or at least the ones that visit these forums. I think sitting at number 2 atop of the cryptocoin leader board has gone to most of their heads and most of them think (I actually saw someone type this today) that Litecoin is too big to fail.

The idea that all Litecoin needs to do is promote itself and doesn't need to innovate and add new features is deeply flawed. While Litecoiners are too busy worried about promoting themselves, other cryptocoins are developing massive innovations that will rock the foundation of cryptocoins as we know them today. While Litecoin sits back and makes mostly insignificant improvements along with security updates, there are some new players in the industry that are doing really amazing things that add true intrinsic value to the cryptocoin space. Simply put, a faster block speed (which is basically the only useful thing about Litecoin) is starting to look less like a good selling point and more like every other copy cat coin in existence.

When I got involved with Litecoin almost two years ago, I was certain it would become more popular and valuable as a safe haven for GPU miners, and I was proven to be correct. However that effect has come and gone with ASICs being released this year and the GPU miners are jumping ship to other coins. There is really no reason or use for Litecoin anymore, and I can no longer say that I am certain it will grow in popularity and value. Other coins have fairer launches now and other coins have faster or similar block speeds. There is nothing that sets Litecoin apart from the other ALT coins as being a sure bet any more, and I am very worried for its future. Especially with the current development team that doesn't see innovation as being important, along with the community that shares that sentiment. It is for these reasons I will no longer support Litecoin. I have thought very hard and long about this and I feel bad about doing this, however I cannot support what I don't believe in... that's just not me.

Thanks for the few people that supported my endeavors here with CryptoVest, it will always be appreciated. Thanks to those of you that I had very good conversations with over the years on these forums. Thanks to Litecoin for helping me get my feet wet in the cryptocoin space, and coincidentally helping me meet new friends that I will have for the rest of my life I'm sure. Feel free to contact me through Bitcointalk or my personal email willconnatser007@gmail.com  -> Replace 007 with 87 though

I am very excited about the future of cryptos and I will stay heavily involved with the cryptocoin community as I have in the past, but I will no longer spend most of my time and energy on Litecoin. 

Thanks again to you all and take care,

Will

[CoinHoarder]

In case anyone here missed the original post where Coinhoarder decided to leave Litecoin because of his own reasoning. Here it is for others to dissect if they wish:

LINK: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=1940.msg157795#msg157795

Hi all,

Due to a conflict of interest I will no longer be making physical Litecoins and am abandoning my plans to make future editions of physical Litecoins. I am planning on continuing this venture, but I will no longer be minting physical Litecoins.. it will be for other cryptocoins. The main reason for this is that I have lost all interest in Litecoin and no longer see it as a good investment. It has taken me a while to get to this point and there is really no one reason in particular, but a few things stand out above the rest. I brought up some ideas to the community and the Litecoin developers about building a protocol on top of Litecoin, and was largely ignored and patronized. There is a very dangerously lethargic mindset that seems to be a common way of thinking that exists in Litecoiner's heads, or at least the ones that visit these forums. I think sitting at number 2 atop of the cryptocoin leader board has gone to most of their heads and most of them think (I actually saw someone type this today) that Litecoin is too big to fail.

The idea that all Litecoin needs to do is promote itself and doesn't need to innovate and add new features is deeply flawed. While Litecoiners are too busy worried about promoting themselves, other cryptocoins are developing massive innovations that will rock the foundation of cryptocoins as we know them today. While Litecoin sits back and makes mostly insignificant improvements along with security updates, there are some new players in the industry that are doing really amazing things that add true intrinsic value to the cryptocoin space. Simply put, a faster block speed (which is basically the only useful thing about Litecoin) is starting to look less like a good selling point and more like every other copy cat coin in existence.

When I got involved with Litecoin almost two years ago, I was certain it would become more popular and valuable as a safe haven for GPU miners, and I was proven to be correct. However that effect has come and gone with ASICs being released this year and the GPU miners are jumping ship to other coins. There is really no reason or use for Litecoin anymore, and I can no longer say that I am certain it will grow in popularity and value. Other coins have fairer launches now and other coins have faster or similar block speeds. There is nothing that sets Litecoin apart from the other ALT coins as being a sure bet any more, and I am very worried for its future. Especially with the current development team that doesn't see innovation as being important, along with the community that shares that sentiment. It is for these reasons I will no longer support Litecoin. I have thought very hard and long about this and I feel bad about doing this, however I cannot support what I don't believe in... that's just not me.

Thanks for the few people that supported my endeavors here with CryptoVest, it will always be appreciated. Thanks to those of you that I had very good conversations with over the years on these forums. Thanks to Litecoin for helping me get my feet wet in the cryptocoin space, and coincidentally helping me meet new friends that I will have for the rest of my life I'm sure. Feel free to contact me through Bitcointalk or my personal email willconnatser007@gmail.com  -> Replace 007 with 87 though

I am very excited about the future of cryptos and I will stay heavily involved with the cryptocoin community as I have in the past, but I will no longer spend most of my time and energy on Litecoin.  

Thanks again to you all and take care,

Will

Yes, that sums up my opinion pretty well. That post isn't nearly as thorough as I'm being here though, the gloves are off.

[CoinHoarder]

Go back 10 months to August 2013 where difficulty kept rising and rising for 3 months straight which in turn pulled the price up in is own way.

Your theory doesn't always hold true. If you were around as long as I have you would know that your bolded statement isn't 100% true.

1. It's not a theory
2. Yes it is true

If price does not always follow difficulty, that means price doesn't follow difficulty. IF price goes down while difficulty goes up, how can you say price follows difficulty? Answer: You can't unless you want to ignore all the times that it doesn't. To state otherwise is blasphemy.

Perhaps you could say "sometimes price follows difficulty", but the statement "price follows difficulty" is not true. There are many other factors at play than simply difficulty as I stated, funny how you ignore that. You guys just cherry pick things that suite your argument, and I address every point you bring up. I have brought up a lot of good points ITT that you guys continually ignore.

I gave you one of a few actual instances where Price followed difficulty.

Nice try refuting that and saying "Yes it is true and not a theory".

Your theory equates to "100% of the time Price does not follow Difficulty" or "100% of the time Difficulty Follows Price".

My example breaks your claim. It is funny that you ignore that.

The more you post it appears it seems this entire thread is an attempt to ego boost yourself out of your own failures in life and in the crypto world.

Just like now when I gave you a specific example of where your flawed theory is incorrect you try to justify why you are "right".

lol You are truly pathetic.

If price doesn't follow difficulty once (it has happened many times,) then it is a true statement that price doesn't follow difficulty. Sure, price can coincidentally follow difficulty or not follow difficulty, however price is completely separate from difficulty:

- Price is determined by many factors
- Difficulty is determined by how many hashes are thrown at the network

How hard is that to understand?

[CoinHoarder]

you hate that I am pointing out why Litecoin is a crap coin, and you have a personal vendetta against me since I called your physical Litecoins overpriced. Just admit it bro, everyone can tell.

Okay so we have established a few things:

1. You think Litecoin is a crap coin.

Although I don't hate it at all that you call it a crap coin but you were just supporting it not long ago. I think it is rather funny. PRESUMPTUOUS ARE WE that I hate it when you do that?  

Compared to some of the newer coins (and ones in development) with the same features, as fair a release, more features, and innovative approaches, YES! A million times over yes, Litecoin is a crap coin compared to those coins. This is what I mean by the dynamics have changed. You are silly to believe that someone's opinion can't change on something due to developments over the past couple years. You are being stubborn in your support of Litecoin, I am simply looking at the big picture with no bias.. I don't own any coins. Purely PoS and truly innovative coins did not really exist when I got into Litecoin, and I saw oppurtunity from GPU miners switching from Bitcoin to Litecoin. SHORT TERM opportunity that has sense passed.

2. You think I have a personal vendetta against you because you called my physical Litecoins overpriced.

lol that is funny. To be clear no I am not mad about that. You can have your opinion of what you think about my coins. I'm thick skinned unlike you who runs and whines at the first sign of opposition.

My whole entire motto on this forum from day 1 has been to call out people's bullshit. Coinhoarder you have made so many claims and promises that you never fulfilled and that is the bullshit I call out. Not to mention how you presume to claim you know that "smart money" isn't smart (or that smart) despite you being dumb money yourself by your own track record.

Remember this where you made a claim and it couldn't have been further from the truth?

Tell me what this has to do with Litecoin and why it's better than everything else?

I don't deny some of what you're saying, it's the fact that you're repeating it over and over instead of talking about the thread's topic. You think anyone that cares hasn't seen all that? This is why I think you have some kind of vendetta against me, because you try to make me look as bad as possible when I'm here trying to have an earnest debate about Litecoin. You are an asshole... an asshole in denial about Litecoin.

Well we both know how that statement turned out. I just laughed at you when you made that comment and that sentence never materialized.

For the millionth time, I have the right to defend myself and not let you walk all over me Smoothie the asshole. Why don't you take your Lealana coins out of your ass for a second?

Much of your arguments in this thread are so generalized that you have so much wiggle room to get out of what you really are saying or claiming. Not to mention that some of your claims are with one foot in the door and one out of the door as if you are riding the fence. If you had a track record of being correct and had proof of risk you took to support your claims in the past predictions you made (and were successful with proof) I would be more inclined to listen to your arguments but that is not the case. You are just a guy on a forum who needs an ego boost given all of your recent failures in crypto and in your personal life.

My track record (asided from being the "troll" that calls people's bullshit out) is clear on this forum.

My arguments are valid, if they are not then show me how they aren't valid. I will continue to believe and tell people otherwise until you do. All you can say is that I am wrong, but you can't put to words as to why I am wrong. So that leads me (and anyone else that's following this discourse) to believe that you can't. All you have on me is that I am a horrible person and that I don't know what I'm talking about, both of which couldn't be further from the truth. You can't say why as to not me as a horrible idiot of a person, but the arguments I've laid out in this thread. If the arguments I've laid out are so idiotic, then they should be easy to refute, no?

[CoinHoarder]

*crickets*

http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/period-charts.php?period=6-months&resolution=day&pair=ltc-btc&market=btc-e

[Litesire]

So BTC price went up and LTC price went down. Congratz to ASICs for killing off the scrypt market.

[FreeJack2k2]

*crickets*

http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/period-charts.php?period=6-months&resolution=day&pair=ltc-btc&market=btc-e

As though its price relative to Bitcoin is an all-encompassing measure of its success?

Good thing we aren't measuring Bitcoin's success that way (relative to the dollar), it's still almost 50% off its high in November...yet I see a LOT of reasons to be bullish on Bitcoin.

There are obvious and well-documented reasons for the drop relative to Bitcoin that have nothing to do with sentiment.

The newsmedia declared Bitcoin dead numerous times in 2013 based on price. They were wrong, too.

[El Dude]

what happened to you CoinHoarder why did you become such a troll ?

[ShroomsKit_Disgrace]

what happened to you CoinHoarder why did you become such a troll ?

Troll???

Face the reality El Dude:

http://coinmarketcap.com/ltc_180.html