Litecoin Is NOT Dead (It Is Just Dying A Slow Death)

[CoinHoarder]

I know there are a lot of threads for this already, but I wanted to start a new one as I felt the past ones did not give thorough reasons, and were somewhat trollish in nature. I have been a hardcore Litecoin supporter for the past couple years, and I do not think it is going away anytime soon. I am trying to think more long term than that, and Litecoin seems poised to die a slow death if it continues down the same path. The onslaught of copy and paste coins, followed by the onslaught of innovative coins, has changed the way I think about Litecoin. I can no longer recommend it as a good investment at this point in time. I have lobbied for Litecoin harder than even Bitcoin, and my decision to no longer support Litecoin was not an easy one. This post will be brushed aside as FUD or as me being a “hater”, but I hope you read what I have to say and think about the points I bring up, I assure you I have thought long and hard about them.

I feel like the argument that “Litecoin has the best development team” is quite disrespectful to the many other talented and devoted developers of other alt coins. You might as well call them all idiots. In fact, there are many developers that are going above and beyond what the Litecoin developers are doing. Litecoin has decided that it is content to simply follow in the steps of Bitcoin, something I tried hard to lobby against. Litecoin is merely developing things that Bitcoin has already made, such as Electrum and Android wallets. I will give them (well… Warren) a bit of credit for improving some security issues on both Litecoin and Bitcoin, but they do not see the glaring issue in that the end users don’t actually ever see these improvements. Nor do they particularly care… what I mean by that is… Have any of you ever had a problem because of a security issue in the Litecoin/Bitcoin client? I would be surprised to hear one person tell me yes they have, as after using it for years I haven’t and most cases that pop up seem to be user error.

Crypto currency users/investors want new and improved features, this is something they can actually see and use, and that adds value to the currency in their mind. I think merely following in Bitcoin’s footsteps is possibly a path to becoming obsolete. We already have Bitcoin, we don’t need another currency that is almost exactly like it except for a few changed parameters. By staying three steps behind Bitcoin in the crypto currency wars, they are positioning themselves to be obsolete if Bitcoin is ever supplanted by a new crypto currency that is much better. I made a hard push to get Litecoiners behind the idea of implementing new decentralized features, such as asset exchanges and decentralized applications, and I was completely ignored by the developers and dismissed by most of the Litecoin faithful. This is how the “best development team” operates? Completely ignoring their user base and someone that has gone out of his way to support Litecoin time and time again? You would think there is no value in the ideas of creating Dcorps/Dapps the way I was dismissed, but as you can see with the money flowing in on projects like BitsharesAGS/Swarm/Etcetera, a large portion of the crypto currency community agrees with me.

This is not the only case where the developers have done as they pleased, many voiced concerns about ASICs coming online and ruining the decentralized nature of the network, making people pay for hardware that will never ROI and sadly has little to no resale value, and suscept the Litecoin mining community to pre-ordering hardware they may never even see (or at least they likely will never see on time before the difficulty skyrockets like what happened with Bitcoin.) After a year and a half of investing in ASIC mining technology, running group buys, and hosting hardware, I can honestly say it is a fool’s game. The original batch 1 Avalons broke even and made a hefty profit, and almost every ASIC offering since then has fallen short of simply allowing their customers to break even. I will no longer support ASIC mining or the companies that make them, and when that sentiment is shared by a large group of people (I know I’m not alone,) it can be a very dangerous thing and lead to centralization of the network. I am worried for both Bitcoin and Litecoin in those regards… when a crypto currency becomes centralized, what is the point really? Satoshi would not approve.

Litecoin’s trade volume and market cap dwarf those of other alternative crypo currencies. Although this is true, I feel like this is very dangerous reasoning for determining the future of a cryptocoin and should not be a large factor of your decision. Have you ever heard of the banks that are “too big to fail”? This is the kind of reasoning this reminds me of. Does anyone remember when Facebook came out of nowhere and made Myspace obsolete? Blockbuster got killed by Netflix and Redbox. Dell, once a leader in the IT sector has fallen behind its competitors. Kodak’s stock price is about 96% lower than it was in 1997 due to the advent of personal printers, improvements in software, and file sharing. Microsoft was at the forefront of technology at one point, and now they are playing catch up when it comes to search engines, internet video, ebooks, smartphones, and tablet PCs. Motorola was huge when mobile telephones first came out, yet they failed to focus on smartphones with new features and rapidly lost market share to companies like Apple, LG, and Samsung. Sears got huge by sending out catalogs and allowing customers to order things from home, but failed to capitalize when ecommerce became much more popular to consumers. A Sony Walkman used to be today’s iPod. Yahoo… Toys R Us… need I say more?

Due to rapid technological advancements and the competition being innovative and forward thinking (seeing a pattern here?), companies can become obsolete very fast and I see no reason why this does not (or could not) hold true with crypto currencies. The network effect is very powerful, however I feel like the network effect is exponentially more powerful for Bitcoin than it is for Litecoin. It is Bitcoin that is in the news all day every day, not Litecoin. Although Litecoin does get more attention than most other alternative crypto currencies, I feel this is because they are the guys to beat right now. As you can see in the last paragraph, this could change quickly and this is not a good argument for Litecoin holding its number two spot.

Although Litecoin may be accepted by more exchanges and merchants than other alternative crypto currencies, the more innovative and valuable ones are sure to follow. Multi coin payment processing is going to become more popular as more coins come out. Having a different payment processor for every crypto currency is just not a smart way of doing things, and the ones that only accept one or two crypto currencies will be less popular with merchants over time. If someone wants to buy something from me with Sex Coin, I am going to want their business as I can simply exchange the Sex Coin for whatever coin I would like. If the consumers have more options to pay, the more likely they are to purchase something. I am sure that I sold a few extra physical Litecoins because I used coinpayments.net which accepts something like 30+ crypto coins. I had it setup to automatically exchange the coins that I didn’t want. It was stupidly easy and got me a little extra business. What merchant wouldn’t want this? They will choose the payment processor that supports the most coins, and the most stubborn payment processors will be slowly phased out. Exchanges make money by people trading crypto currencies (duh, right?). There is no reason they will not keep adding coins to trade alongside other coins to increase their profit. By not adding new coins, whether it’s a scam coin or not, they are leaving money off the table and it makes no sense.

The Litecoin is silver to Bitcoin’s goal is simply a marketing slogan, nothing more nothing less. You could just as easily say Xcoin is silver to Bitcoin’s gold, and it wouldn’t be an incorrect statement. This thinking is similar to the “Litecoin is too big to fail” dogma, as we’ve seen with many of the technology giants that have been surpassed by innovative and forward thinking competition, this could change very quickly. I don’t look at Litecoin having ATMs as being a huge deal, as most people are looking to install Bitcoin ATMs. For Litecoin to compete with Bitcoin in the ATM space, they need to hope that Bitcoin ATMs are made to support Litecoin. If Bitcoin ATMs can be made to support Litecoin (and duh they can), then there is nothing stopping them from supporting other crypto currencies.

Yes Litecoin’s network speed dwarfs that of other Scrypt coins, and it is likely much more secure than those. However, I think it is silly to focus on only Scrypt coins. There are other innovative and valuable alternative crypto currencies that are not Scrypt-based. Some of the newer & most popular ones you can’t even mine them at all (like PoS coins). Making that a reason to be better than another ALT coin that does not have mining is like Mike Tyson fighting a baby. You can’t mine those coins, so how is Litecoin being the most secure Scrypt coin a good selling point? Maybe it is a good selling point versus all other Scrypt coins, however most of those are crap and everyone knows it.

Litecoin is not a back up to Bitcoin. If a huge flaw is found in Bitcoin and someone attacks it, Litecoin is likely to share that flaw. I always thought Litecoin would be a good backup if Bitcoin somehow was flawed because of it using a different algorithm. After learning more about this, I do not feel that is the case anymore. The encryption algorithm is the least likely place that a huge vulnerability will found. Cryptography is studied in academia much more so than Bitcoin’s source code, and the best and brightest are studying it... cryptography is no walk in the park. Short of quantum computing, which is unfeasible in the next 30 to 40 years, the encryption algorithm will not be the weak link. Furthermore, since Litecoin feels so apt to follow in Bitcoin’s steps, a huge percentage of the code base is shared by the two. If one goes down, the other is likely to follow. You may say… well if Bitcoin dies then all crypto currencies are doomed, but I am not so sure that is the case. Where other companies have failed, others have gone on to innovate and change the industry forever, even becoming bigger and better than their predecessors. Crypto currencies will certainly take a hit if Bitcoin dies, however it will not be the end of this movement I am certain of that.

As to the Litecoin Association being a good reason to support Litecoin… are you kidding me? Have you seen all the drama and mess the Bitcoin Foundation has had going on... I’m sure everyone has. I would venture to say that at this point the Bitcoin Foundation is hurting Bitcoin more than it is supporting it. When people form centralized foundations for decentralized technologies, it goes against the original spirit of decentralization and crypto currencies for which Satoshi set precedent for. As to Litecoin having a better community than any other alternative crypto currency, I beg to differ. I never felt welcomed, and was often chastized for my opinions. Although Coblee was very nice when I met him at the Bitcoin 2013 conference, he literally ignored me after that. Even when I was pleading to the developers to comment on adding new features to Litecoin. Honestly, before Litecoin jumped up in price in November/December 2012, Coblee was nowhere to be seen in the Litecoin community. Once the price started to rise he suddenly showed up and started making an effort. I have no problem with that, but I couldn’t help but notice the coincidence. Anytime I tried to bring up controversial opinions or suggestions I was met with opposition mostly from early adopters. Furthermore, I feel like the Litecoin community is a big “click” and the really early adopters are much more likely to support each other on controversial matters than new users, and this is alarming considering Coblee is in this group.

Faster block times are no longer a good selling point, as there are other coins with faster block times that don’t have a huge problem with stales etcetera. Anywhere in between a minute and two and a half minute block time does not suffer from the things that Litecoin says will happen if they go any faster, at least not to the point where it is a huge problem. Everyone knows by now that Litecoin confirmations are less secure than Bitcoin confirmations. Furthermore, many Bitcoin payment processors process payments without any or as little as 1 confirmation, making some Bitcoin payments instant. I don’t see this as good as a feature I had originally thought, as many coins have come out that were faster and didn’t completely fail. Along this same line of thinking, the statement that Litecoin had a fair release… how is that even a feature? That is just default common sense for any developer developing a crypto currency if they want it to succeed. Not having a fair release is a sure way to death, as was learned with the alternative crypto currencies that came before Litecoin. Since Litecoin was released, I feel like there were numerous even more fair releases than Litecoin. So again, this argument lost its appeal to me.

For those of you that think this may be FUD, I can tell you I currently do not have a balance above zero in any crypto currencies, and this is my non biased opinion of Litecoin and why I have stopped supporting it. Again, I must stress it was a hard decision as I have been supporting it for so long, and even got some of my friends and family invested. I am starting to regret that now, I am going to have to point them to this paper as I would feel horrible if they are left holding the bag. I can only really suggest Bitcoin at this point, anything else is really risky and it’s too early to tell who will rise to the top. I suggest putting a small percentage of your coins into projects you find interesting or innovative. It is going to take something truly innovative to supplant Bitcoin, and by coincidence Litecoin as well since they are content blindly following Bitcoin. I have a feeling this day will come sooner than we all think.

Hm, it is getting boring to me to hear the Litecoin faithful repeat the same mantras over and over, which I have refuted in detail, but none of them seem to be able to come up with a good retort. So, I will summarize here for those that may not have been following the thread. I may repeat some things I've already said, but that's just because no one has come up with a good answer for them yet. There are more half truths that they are spreading, but these seem to be the most common.

Myth #1: Trolls have called Litecoin dead before, but it hasn't happened yet, so that means it is not happening right now.

Logic Re: Myth #1: Most of the "Litecoin is dead" threads they refer to to make this point were from one to two years ago. I do agree that Litecoin was an easy choice back then to be the #2 crypto and was unlikely to die for obvious reasons. I myself defended back then. However, the dynamics of the free market have changed greatly since then. There wasn't really a good alternative to Litecoin or Bitcoin back then. Since then there have been numerous cryptos that have quicker block times, more features, more innovative proof of work protocol or alternatives, just as big of communities, and more developers. In an industry that moves as fast as cryptos are moving, you can't hold onto tired old mantras such as this when the dynamics have changed vastly. Due to rapid technological advancements, and the competition being innovative and forward thinking, companies can become obsolete very fast and I see no reason why this does not hold true with crypto currencies. When it comes to Myth #1, Litecoiners are living in the past. By the way, Smoothie hasn't figured this out yet and I guess there are probably others too, so I will explain it. The title of this thread is poking fun at the other "Litecoin is dead" threads and is a satirical hook. I thought it was a pretty catchy title myself, but maybe that's just me.

Myth #2: The Network Effect... cause just because.... The Network Effect.

Logic Re: Myth #2: I have already covered the network effect extensively in this thread and no one from the Litecoin camp seems to be able to come up with a good retort. The network effect is very powerful, however the network effect is exponentially more powerful for Bitcoin than it is for Litecoin. It is Bitcoin that is in the news all day every day, not Litecoin. Litecoin does get more attention than most other alternative crypto currencies, as they should because they are the guys to beat right now. This could change quickly, and if you read my examples of innovative companies completely killing less innovative companies, you will understand what I mean. I agree Litecoin has it's own network effect, however it is not nearly as strong as Bitcoin's network effect. Search Bitcoin in Google news and tell me how many articles pop up, then do the same for Litecoin, there will be many less articles about Litecoin. Litecoin has a small network effect that is somewhat limited within people engaged in the crypto currency community, however Bitcoin's network effect stretches much wider than that. Since Litecoin's network effect is limited somewhat to people engaged in the community, they are more likely to look at Litecoin for what it is.. Bitcoin with a few changed parameters. When it comes to Myth #2, Litecoiners are in denial.

Myth #3: Innovation does not translate into acceptance or success.

Logic Re: Myth #3: Sure, innovation doesn't equal acceptance or success on its own merits, however it certainly helps. The more innovative coins that have been released in the past year are sitting on top end of the crypto market cap list, and the cryptos that didn't are sitting at the bottom. According to Litecoiners this is purely coincidence... Furthermore, acceptance and therefore success will come for the most innovative cryptos as it is easier to determine who the leader of the pack is. Right now it is a hard decision as to what cryptocoin 2.0 protocol has the best chance for success, so payment processors and exchanges are hesitant to add them to their services (although the most forward thinking ones have already done so.) Over time this will work itself out. In the Field Of Dreams the saying goes, "if you build it they will come". I like this line of thinking when it comes to cryptos. Although they might not be widely adopted right when they come out, I believe that eventually (if there is added substance and value on top of Bitcoin/Litecoin) it is only a matter of time before the crypto community comes. (wow.. that totally didn't sound right..   ).

Myth #4: Litecoin is accepted at more merchants than other alternative currencies (as to a reason for it still being a good long term investment).

Logic Re: Myth #4: Sometimes cryptos (Litecoin or Bitcoin) are being used to transfer money and make purchases, however most users are still using them as a speculative vehicle to make money. If you really think that Litecoin is being used everywhere for ecommerce, then I have a bridge to sell you. When I had a physical crypto business I offered two ways to pay, through Paypal and through Coinpayments.net. I would venture to guesstimate that 95% of the orders were made using Paypal. The answer as to why is obvious, since cryptos have been going up in value so much over the past couple years, no one wants to spend their cryptos and would much rather use FIAT. This was only about 6 months ago, and I can guarantee you it has not changed much since then. Furthermore, the popularity of multi-coin payment processors are going to accelerate the adoption of newer innovative cryptos. As merchants demand more payment options for the convenience of their customers to receive more business, payment processors will adopt the most popular and valuable cryptos (which I am speculating will be the most innovative ones).

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[noelmal]

Save this type of post for your highschool assignments, seriously who the f*(k would read all of the above  

[CoinHoarder]

Save this type of post for your highschool assignments, seriously who the f*(k would read all of the above  

Sorry, I like to think about and write about crypto currencies. You are welcome to move along.

[bitcats]

Utter nonsense! 

[CoinHoarder]

Utter nonsense! 

You are supposed to refute my reasoning and tell me why I'm wrong.

[kalus]

thanks for this well reasoned post. 

do you feel the added security of the litecoin blockchain with new asics on the way will prolong the life of litecoin, or accelerate its demise? 

[Walrusbonzo]

It's a good read. I agree, Litecoin is dying a slow death. It has very little going for it compared to the more modern innovative coins like BlackCoin and VeriCoin.

[CoinHoarder]

thanks for this well reasoned post.  

do you feel the added security of the litecoin blockchain with new asics on the way will prolong the life of litecoin, or accelerate its demise?

It's hard to say. I feel like in the long run it will be a bad thing, but the effects of the centralization of Bitcoin/Litecoin mining won't be felt for some time. As corporations, old money, and old money FIAT take over mining, the affects will start to show. At that point they are no longer decentralized currencies, it is moving that way already.

I think Litecoin will remain number 2 through at least the end of the year and possibly next year too. However, things are moving so quickly that it is completely possible that its demise could happen sooner rather than later. I think Bitcoin will be much harder to topple than Litecoin.

[Willisius]

I agree. Bitcoin can't experiment. That shouldn't mean that Litecoin can't either. There are new features like PoS, anonymous transactions, even public/anonymous messaging, that coins are experimenting with.
Also, you're right about that "silver to bitcoin's gold" slogan being invalid. I didn't think it was clever.

With all that being said, if Litecoin development - for some reason - suddenly decided that some of these features had been proven stable enough for integration, that would do a lot for it.

[AltcoinBull]

You need an executive summary at the top.

[Saigonsmokes]

A very interesting read, seriously nice to see some posts that have some thought put into them. 

You are welcome to post your post on this thread, it would be nice to see some two way discussion:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=661938.0

[mazuma]

skimmed through it. Its quiet true what your saying. You have thought it through with your reasoning and in general almost all crypto will die a slow painful death and litecoin is going to be one of them.  Sorry i cant match your post length with a more constructive response. 

[kelsey]

What where when or who of mining is a none issue for anyone outside this rather small niche community. In reality litecoin interest is growing in the mainstream, where the next wave of investors to both btc and ltc is coming.

Bitcoin has huge hurdles to overcome to get through the regulators for a successfull etf launch (I know I am part of the team working on this; anon dev, previous fraud, silk road, gox, all dont exactly sit well with regulators or wallstreet investors), litecoin has less of these hurdles. Kinda why I am now a litecoin convert (when previously I was in the anti crowd if u check earlier in the ltc thread and ltc forum).

problem is the guys with the ltc dead threads dont see the bigger picture of the world outside this very small niche mining geek community.

[Mjbmonetarymetals]

Bitcoin is nowhere mass adoption by the general public, litecoin is positioned well should that happen. I hope it doesn't jump on the feature bandwagon doing tons of things badly rather than a few things well.

Meanwhile altcoiners living firmly in the 5th dimension have moved from Bitcoin, from litecoin to an ever growing fragmented list of new coins with zero chance of mass adoption, this altcoin section is the only driver for a constant parade of every more boring coins with more and more 'features that the world at large will never want or understand.

Litecoin could use more support but that support has been divided up into oblivion behind hundreds of coins largely created by a few devs who's only interest is making dollars.

[MiningBattalion]

I bought mine for 2 USD and now tghey are 10. I have traded half away. I am still uo a lot

[kalus]

Bitcoin is nowhere mass adoption by the general public, litecoin is positioned well should that happen.

why do litecoin supporters claim this?  I think more people know what dogecoin is than litecoin. 

[Saigonsmokes]

Bitcoin is nowhere mass adoption by the general public, litecoin is positioned well should that happen.

why do litecoin supporters claim this?  I think more people know what dogecoin is than litecoin.  

https://www.cryptocoincharts.info/v2/coins/graphicalComparison




Dogecoin - 349BTC
LTC - 13096BTC

[r0ach]

Someone will probably say this post isn't politically correct, but I don't give a shit.  I believe the Litecoin ship is mostly steered by a few conservative Asians.  Anyone with a primitive understanding of culture should be able to derive what that means for the coin.  It means risk taking is going to be done at a minimum, and there most likely won't be any dramatic activity done to rock the boat, so to speak.  Altcoins are supposed to be a platform for experimental features, so that kind of nature may be counterproductive in this instance.

When dealing with business, you need two things to succeed, a good idea, feature, or product, and balls to follow through with a plan no matter how unfeasible things look in the short term.  Litecoin has basically lost it's signature feature, and is now sitting in the water with 0/2 variables needed for success.

Having said that, I don't really see it dying soon.

[kelsey]

Altcoins are supposed to be a platform for experimental features.

In the diehard cryptoenthusiast circles maybe, certainly not in proper investment circles which is becoming the majority driving force (hence ltc inability to experiment).

Just like gold investors don't care if the gold was panned in the river by some old miner, or was from a huge commercial operation, neither to investors care if ltc was mined by a single cpu miner or a huge asics farm.

[darkota]

It's a good read. I agree, Litecoin is dying a slow death. It has very little going for it compared to the more modern innovative coins like BlackCoin and VeriCoin.

Very true, I made a thread detailing why Litecoin is already dead, it only has 20 btc worth of volume on Mintpal..

[devphp]

Finally, someone gets it! Unlike these LTC fanboys.

[DrG]

The true test of it's death will be if there is a rally in BTC if LTC decides to go along with it.  If investors pile money into more alts then LTC will die slowly.  Nothing sparks people to get working on a project like the possibility of new income 

[Saigonsmokes]

It's a good read. I agree, Litecoin is dying a slow death. It has very little going for it compared to the more modern innovative coins like BlackCoin and VeriCoin.

Very true, I made a thread detailing why Litecoin is already dead, it only has 20 btc worth of volume on Mintpal..

Yes you made a thread and self moderated that thread and deleted any post that was positive towards Litecoin. Thats called being a troll. Your view means nothing, you clearly have an agenda.

Whats the volume like on NXT that you always pump?



'FUD WARNING - There seems to be a certain group who go around constantly spreading lies about Litecoin. Most of these new coins coming out are created by the same group who's sole purpose is to pump and dump the coin on you and get as many btc and ltc as they can. DYODD'

You can read more about Litecoin and what the community has been up to here. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=661938.0

[darkota]

I delete no such posts, I have deleted about 2 posts on the entire thread because of troll spammers like SaigonSmokes.

Litecoin has decreased more than 80% in value and is only getting lower.

[Saigonsmokes]

I delete no such posts, I have deleted about 2 posts on the entire thread because of troll spammers like SaigonSmokes.

Litecoin has decreased more than 80% in value and is only getting lower.

Liar. Hoping people jump in and post their threads you deleted just to prove you are a liar. I have seen at least 5 people comment about deleted posts- before you deleted them again

Here is evidence of your lies: So you only ever deleted two posts, just two? Here is 8 listed below. Get back to your agenda, troll.

Sorry to have to post in this thread but just to show who should not be trusted here and who have other agendas. These are not even all the posts of mine you deleted.












'FUD WARNING - There seems to be a certain group who go around constantly spreading lies about Litecoin. Most of these new coins coming out are created by the same group who's sole purpose is to pump and dump the coin on you and get as many btc and ltc as they can. DYODD'

[darkota]

Photoshopped pictures.

[Saigonsmokes]

Photoshopped pictures.

Anyone in Admin can show otherwise. In fact let me PM some just to show you up once more
and i must be amazing in PS to do all that editing in what 9 minutes Seriously, how much do you get paid to troll?

[devphp]

Saigonsmokes obviously likes posting pictures and graphs without further thinking of their meaning.

Yes, volume is good. But all it means is that miners are dumping continuously to recoup their expenses, the same thing is happening to Doge by the way, except Doge will reach a smaller inflation rate by the end of the year than Litecoin, its inflation rate goes down with each halving and it's already hit rock bottom price, and from here it is starting its ascent to meet Litecoin market cap.

On the difference between PoW and PoS currencies.

PoW miners have to dump constantly to regain their electricity expenditures and recoup their hardware investment. That's where you see the volume, miners are selling all the time.

In PoS there are no electricity expenditures, the initial invesments made by IPO stakeholders have been recouped, so they only sell when they need some cash for life.

In PoW miners need both to recoup their hardware/electricity expenses + cash for life. So in PoW currencies the volume is larger, naturally, apart from the fact that PoW is more known and recognized and investors prefer to buy something that has been around for years. But that's temporary too, when PoS will have stayed around for years, they will switch en mass, because they don't care if it's PoW or PoS as long as the price goes up.

That's in short why high volume in LTC doesn't make it less dying than it is. Miners mine for profit and dump on suckers, who hope that a coin without active devs will take off. The proof is simple: price trend is down on very good volume, not up.

And some bitcoin<->litecoin coin shuffling is going on, it seems, which adds to the volume.

[doo]

Photoshopped pictures.

Lol there are seen some professional trolls around but surely no-one can pay for the garbage you produce

[kelsey]

Investors with proper money don't fall for the latest anon scam pump and dump coins, anymore then they fell for the last waves of country coins, animal coins, or meme coins, all get a few minutes of fame and the sheep follow.....

sure from time to time the latest pump coins could displace ltc on the old pump charts vs USD but its always short lived. anon coins are for a small niche group and any serious investor would avoid them


people rave on about so called innovative alts around here but all are just innovation for the sake of innovation without any must have benefit in the real world and worse still, most fail the KISS principle of average joe acceptance, hell bitcoins hard enough to get average joes head around.

[darkota]

Investors with proper money don't fall for the latest anon scam pump and dump coins, anymore then they fell for the last waves of country coins, animal coins, or meme coins, all get a few minutes of fame and the sheep follow.....

sure from time to time the latest pump coins could displace ltc on the old pump charts vs USD but its always short lived. anon coins are for a small niche group and any serious investor would avoid them


people rave on about so called innovative alts around here but all are just innovation for the sake of innovation without any must have benefit in the real world and worse still, most fail the KISS principle of average joe acceptance, hell bitcoins hard enough to get average joes head around.

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

Anon coins aren't a small niche group, in case you don't know, Bitcoin is the most transparent money payment system on Earth...I know a lot of business owners who dont use Bitcoin because of its transparency..

Anon in coins is the future of crypto. Denying that will only get you left behind.

[devphp]

people rave on about so called innovative alts around here but all are just innovation for the sake of innovation without any must have benefit in the real world and worse still, most fail the KISS principle of average joe acceptance, hell bitcoins hard enough to get average joes head around.

If you don't see use cases of innovations, that's your short-sightedness, not a coin's fault.
Bitcoin has money store and transfer function covered pretty good making all other coins obsolete in that aspect.
They have to innovate to compete or die out. If they add enough useful functions, some (more and more) people will change the habit of storing money in Bitcoin and switch to that other coin which has other useful functions that they can use without exchanging from Bitcoins first.

[kelsey]

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

lol says mr delete anyone elses' apposing view, why not just stay in your own little self moderated thread where you can listen to those who only agree with you all day long makes for a happier world don't it 

[alienesb]

Photoshopped pictures.

You guys are silly. Just go here to see an unredacted thread: https://bitcointa.lk/threads/litecoin-is-officially-dead.331214/

Knowledge is power.

[Saigonsmokes]

Photoshopped pictures.

You guys are silly. Just go here to see an unredacted thread: https://bitcointa.lk/threads/litecoin-is-officially-dead.331214/

Knowledge is power.

Thanks Alienesb...that thread shows every post Darkota the troll deleted.

Darkota...You seem quiet...shhhhh

[El Dude]

Dakota and Devphp are obvious paid NXT sockpupets who think their shitty ipo nxt will overtake litecoin won't happen no matter how hard they try.

[darkota]

Dakota and Devphp are obvious paid NXT sockpupet who think shitty ipo nxt will overtake nxt won't happen no matter how hard they try.

NXT is the future of crypto. 1000000x better than Litecoin could ever dream of being.

Comparing NXT to Litecoin is like comparing Superman to a squirrel.

[El Dude]

Dakota and Devphp are obvious paid NXT sockpupet who think shitty ipo nxt will overtake nxt won't happen no matter how hard they try.

NXT is the future of crypto. 1000000x better than Litecoin could ever dream of being.

Comparing NXT to Litecoin is like comparing Superman to a squirrel.

Ya keep being a sockpupet everyone knows NXT and ipo coins are garbage.

[darkota]

Dakota and Devphp are obvious paid NXT sockpupet who think shitty ipo nxt will overtake nxt won't happen no matter how hard they try.

NXT is the future of crypto. 1000000x better than Litecoin could ever dream of being.

Comparing NXT to Litecoin is like comparing Superman to a squirrel.

Ya keep being a sockpupet everyone knows NXT and ipo coins are garbage.

IPO's are the future of coin distribution..

[ChuckOne]

Yes, volume is good. But all it means is that miners are dumping continuously to recoup their expenses, the same thing is happening to Doge by the way, except Doge will reach a smaller inflation rate by the end of the year than Litecoin, its inflation rate goes down with each halving and it's already hit rock bottom price, and from here it is starting its ascent to meet Litecoin market cap.

On the difference between PoW and PoS currencies.

PoW miners have to dump constantly to regain their electricity expenditures and recoup their hardware investment. That's where you see the volume, miners are selling all the time.

Extremely good point.

[ChuckOne]

thanks for this well reasoned post.  

do you feel the added security of the litecoin blockchain with new asics on the way will prolong the life of litecoin, or accelerate its demise?

It's hard to say. I feel like in the long run it will be a bad thing, but the effects of the centralization of Bitcoin/Litecoin mining won't be felt for some time. As corporations, old money, and old money FIAT take over mining, the affects will start to show. At that point they are no longer decentralized currencies, it is moving that way already.

I think Litecoin will remain number 2 through at least the end of the year and possibly next year too. However, things are moving so quickly that it is completely possible that its demise could happen sooner rather than later. I think Bitcoin will be much harder to topple than Litecoin.

+1

[devphp]

El Dude,

people raise valid concerns, and you are not helping newbies convincing them to invest into a depreciating coin.

[mymenace]

Bit much to read

could this also be said about btc at a time it had a similar marketcap

I have never been concerned about this new algo or this new fearure, I just want a coin that works, has adoption and a strong network

And so far that is btc and ltc

One day businesses will be able to have a cryptocurrency of choice

[ChuckOne]

Bit much to read

could this also be said about btc at a time it had a similar marketcap

Sorry, dude. But go back and read again. You missed the point completely.

[mymenace]

Bit much to read

could this also be said about btc at a time it had a similar marketcap

Sorry, dude. But go back and read again. You missed the point completely.

Ok i will read when I get a chance, just asking a question, I will gain more insight first

[rokkyroad]

Bitcoin is nowhere mass adoption by the general public, litecoin is positioned well should that happen. I hope it doesn't jump on the feature bandwagon doing tons of things badly rather than a few things well.

Meanwhile altcoiners living firmly in the 5th dimension have moved from Bitcoin, from litecoin to an ever growing fragmented list of new coins with zero chance of mass adoption, this altcoin section is the only driver for a constant parade of every more boring coins with more and more 'features that the world at large will never want or understand.

Litecoin could use more support but that support has been divided up into oblivion behind hundreds of coins largely created by a few devs who's only interest is making dollars.

Well said.

[instacalm]

Dakota and Devphp are obvious paid NXT sockpupet who think shitty ipo nxt will overtake nxt won't happen no matter how hard they try.

NXT is the future of crypto. 1000000x better than Litecoin could ever dream of being.

Comparing NXT to Litecoin is like comparing Superman to a squirrel.

Ya keep being a sockpupet everyone knows NXT and ipo coins are garbage.

Here we go again, thank you for your competent opinion

p.s. The topic is an interesting read

[ChuckOne]

Ok i will read when I get a chance, just asking a question, I will gain more insight first

Not necessary. Let it work on you when reading it.

[timmyd]

Nxt has no paid sockpupets lol we use our funds for projects. Like it or not nxt is getting closer everyday to 2nd spot. Let the old dog ltc die a peaceful death and let innovation and new technology come through. Dont be a bag holder and face it pow is not the way forward.

[msin]

Interesting read, as someone who has never owned LTC, I appreciate a view point from someone who has been a part of the  LTC community for a long time.  Personally I never invested in LTC because I viewed it as purely speculative, so why not just buy BTC.  I don't believe LTC owners are passionate about LTC as a true alternative to BTC (my opinion), they were just buying because they thought it would increase in value and they could sell it for a profit.   

My advice for investment, don't buy a coin if you are immediately thinking about an exit strategy.  Buy a coin because you can actually use it as intended (as a currency or whatever).  When BTC was at $2, I would only purchased it because I wanted to buy something that only accepted BTC  , that was a sign that BTC was incredibly undervalued, but I didn't see it at the time.

[mymenace]

It may reduce in marketcap but it is not dying

Myspace, microsoft, dell etc are not dead

Prevoius altcoins have tried cutting into the market with new features and failed

Until an altcoin can show a proven infrastructure, litecoins marketcap will remain strong

The same can be said about btc, an altcoin with great new features and a strong infrastructure can outdo btc in market size but i do not think it will cause the death of btc

[kalus]

Bitcoin is nowhere mass adoption by the general public, litecoin is positioned well should that happen.

why do litecoin supporters claim this?  I think more people know what dogecoin is than litecoin.  


Dogecoin - 349BTC
LTC - 13096BTC[/b]

nice, but that doesn't answer the question.

in order for mass adoption to occur, litecoin needs to be more than a way to launder bitcoin.  the volume you're showing off doesn't address the issue of recognition: only that litecoin has volume because it's used to scrypt-proxy mine bitcoins.  

in regards to the general public's awareness of cryptocurrencies, few people outside this community know what the fuck a litecoin is.  i think more people recognize dogecoin than litecoin. 

litecoin needs to have mass recognition long before it achieves mass adoption, but nobody has shown this problem is being addressed.

[hellscabane]

I will give them (well… Warren) a bit of credit for improving some security issues on both Litecoin and Bitcoin, but they do not see the glaring issue in that the end users don’t actually ever see these improvements. Nor do they particularly care… what I mean by that is… Have any of you ever had a problem because of a security issue in the Litecoin/Bitcoin client? I would be surprised to hear one person tell me yes they have, as after using it for years I haven’t and most cases that pop up seem to be user error.

However, with a technology so new and relatively "fragile," even one significant security flaw will implicitly mean death. Think about it, when was the last time you've heard of the central system of a bank or brokerage being broken in to? By this I mean, someone directly siphoning funds from the internal system, not someone doing an XSS exploit and retrieving user information; the later is akin to someone getting their PC hacked which happens quite regularly in the crypto-currency realm.

Due to rapid technological advancements and the competition being innovative and forward thinking (seeing a pattern here?), companies can become obsolete very fast and I see no reason why this does not (or could not) hold true with crypto currencies.

Although I can see where you are going with this, it's akin to saying a scripted language or specific productivity program becoming obsolete. Despite there being many choices, the big guns have by and large stood fast (major adoption or transitions between programming languages rarely happens, and although there have got to be at least 5 alternatives to MS Office, MS Office is by and far the kingpin despite spending years between significant enhancements even during this time of swift pace).

That said, I know full well that saying this frankly more to Bitcoin than to Litecoin; and appealing to the "longevity" of Litecoin is a mummer's farce. But it is also indicative of the "trust" that more and more places are placing into a select few crypto-currencies.

Although Litecoin may be accepted by more exchanges and merchants than other alternative crypto currencies, the more innovative and valuable ones are sure to follow. Multi coin payment processing is going to become more popular as more coins come out. Having a different payment processor for every crypto currency is just not a smart way of doing things, and the ones that only accept one or two crypto currencies will be less popular with merchants over time.

This is very true; with the way technology in the crypto-currency scene has evolved, we are heading to a point where a swath of coins will be easily available for processing. The problem is the relative volatility which will either hinder user's acceptance in dealing with certain coins or with the payment processor's risk.

Yes Litecoin’s network speed dwarfs that of other Scrypt coins, and it is likely much more secure than those. However, I think it is silly to focus on only Scrypt coins.

Although it is "silly" to focus only on SHA-256 and sCrypt, they have leaps and bounds more security analysis than many of the newer coins that just pastes a bunch of other algorithms with significantly less security vetting. In either case, an invested network is harder to bring down, but it isn't impossible (after all, parts of the crypto-currency scene reminds me of the .com bubble in the early 2000's).

---

I'll be honest, your assessment on a lot of the other points are quite fair and well-reasoned. I actually see the volume of LTC actually being too high for comfort at times. And just like the BTC Association, does anyone particularly care about Litecoin's? Finally, the only plus side I see with the faster confirmation times is that it aligns with LTC's vision of being the transactor to Bitcoin's slower times; but on that point, there are a plethora of other coins that can take that place.

Nonetheless, with the investment and security built and developed in LTC, I more think it's on a medium-term decline rather than on it's death bed. Over a year and a half ago, there was a much bleaker prospectus for Litecoin with significantly less development and infrastructure; combining everything, I don't see Litecoin on it's way out. If anything, LTC grew much too fast during the November rally and things are just evening out.

[Forceflow]

Dakota and Devphp are obvious paid NXT sockpupet who think shitty ipo nxt will overtake nxt won't happen no matter how hard they try.

NXT is the future of crypto. 1000000x better than Litecoin could ever dream of being.

Comparing NXT to Litecoin is like comparing Superman to a squirrel.

You are a little man darkota.  I know your kind.  Weaselly, sniveling, conniving pathetic worm.  You deleted my post just because you cannot refute it.  Coward.  Try to delete it now, little man.

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Quote
Quote from: percocet on June 21, 2014, 08:09:02 PM
I agree, Litecoin is pretty much dead.

The future will be BTC and second gen coins such as NXT, NEM, Etherium, etc.

The inflammatory thread topic probably indicates the seriousness of this discussion but I'll try anyways. 

You are a voice, but the market drowns out your shrill voice.  Litecoin is 2nd in marketcap and no coin is threatening that.  Money is the loudest form of speech in modern society.  As the saying goes, put your money where your mouth is.

The coins you mention will have to excel for years and by then Litecoin will have used its superior market position, dev team, (relatively) long lineage, and superior infrastructure to continue on its path to being a mature, trusted, and best alternative to bitcoin. If Litecoin were to do anything, it would debunk bitcoin because litecoin has some advantages over bitcoin -- namely faster transaction time, lower entry point in value (people like owning whole things, not fractions), and a non-shadowy creator. Having some proud of creating the currency is better than someone afraid to identify themself. 

The coins you mention are all ephemeral and, frankly, inaccessible to most.  That is a bad recipe for true lasting success.  It won't be broadly based and therefore it can't dethrone litecoin.  People are so short sighted in this but even bitcoin took a dip as ASICs came out for SHA-256.  Litecoin is just going through the same growing pains. Its folly to read too much into that when all of the other numbers indicate long term sustained success.  Just my 2 satoshis.
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[dewdeded]

OP: Good posting, summarizing LTCs biggest problems in an well written FUD free article. As you are only stating facts, obvious me and many others share your thoughts.

From a serious investors point of view there simply is no better choice.
Sure Litecoin appears boring for some members crawling in this forum, but thats the hallmark of a stable business oriented coin.

After you and other serious investors came to the decision that LTC is the best Altcoin choice to invest. Then please tell us, what percentage of LTC holdings (out of all crypto coin holdings) you advise for regular people. And please  justify your number.
(Bonus question: if differs, what % of LTC should serious investors hold)

Next question: You talk about serious investing, then I have to ask you: dont you see the big problems in LTCs project and community management & its general very slow ecosystem development?
IMHO this must/should worry serious LTC investors.

[bitcoincal]

Litecoin is losing on the marketing end now against all the new alt coins.

[poornamelessme]

Interesting read. Litecoin is actually the coin I first read about that got me interested in cryptos back in Jan (read some article somewhere on it). Before then, I had no idea that alt coins even existed and a very rudimentary knowledge of bitcoin. I thought I'd play around with this crypto stuff and maybe I could get a free litecoin out of it, just for fun.

I never bothered really going past that 1 ltc (and have since sold it) and now have a small chunk of btc instead (and various alts). The problem I saw, and still see, is a lack of innovation and the fact that there really is no reason for the value of ltc to rise a whole lot anymore.

I think the OP touched on one really important fact, multi coin processors for purchases. They already exist, and I think they will become the standard if cryptos make any headway into being used as a currency by the general public at all. And that means there will be no difference between ltc, doge, nxt, or whatevercoin, when ConsumerX decides to use crypto to buy something.

The only coins then that could stand out a bit are those that have unique features (nxt flavors, ethereum, maidsafe, anon coins, etc). And I'm not saying any of them will even take the #2 spot, but that #2-#6 spot may end up being somewhat bunched up close to one another.

[darkota]

Interesting read. Litecoin is actually the coin I first read about that got me interested in cryptos back in Jan (read some article somewhere on it). Before then, I had no idea that alt coins even existed and a very rudimentary knowledge of bitcoin. I thought I'd play around with this crypto stuff and maybe I could get a free litecoin out of it, just for fun.

I never bothered really going past that 1 ltc (and have since sold it) and now have a small chunk of btc instead. The problem I saw, and still see, is a lack of innovation and the fact that there really is no reason for the value of ltc to rise a whole lot anymore.

I think the OP touched on one really important fact, multi coin processors for purchases. They already exist, and I think they will become the standard if cryptos make any headway into being used as a currency by the general public at all. And that means there will be no difference between ltc, doge, nxt, or whatevercoin, when ConsumerX decides to use crypto to buy something.

The only coins then that could stand out a bit are those that have unique features (nxt flavors, ethereum, maidsafe, anon coins, etc). And I'm not saying any of them will even take the #2 spot, but that #2-#6 spot may end up being somewhat bunched up close to one another.

I agree, Litecoin has a severe lack of innovation and that will be it's undoing. It's not really accepted at much stores and it doesnt have widespread adoptance. Only a matter of time when Litecoin gets taken over.

[poornamelessme]

I agree, Litecoin has a severe lack of innovation and that will be it's undoing. It's not really accepted at much stores and it doesnt have widespread adoptance. Only a matter of time when Litecoin gets taken over.

Well, with the multi coin processor stuff, I expect ltc to be accepted at the same number of places as any other coin. So that's a plus in the sense that ltc then will be usable almost anywhere cryptos are... but so will every other crypto (or popular ones) too. It levels the playing field.

[rudeboi]

I used to be fairly into LTC, but over time have been shifting all my LTC into a 2nd gen coin at first it was just to diversify my holdings just in case a Bitcoin flaw was found so looked at one with a different code base. But as time has gone on I've come to similar conclusions as you, so have moved the whole lot to the coin I see as the most innovative with quickest development.

[doo]

I used to be fairly into LTC, but over time have been shifting all my LTC into a 2nd gen coin at first it was just to diversify my holdings just in case a Bitcoin flaw was found so looked at one with a different code base. But as time has gone on I've come to similar conclusions as you, so have moved the whole lot to the coin I see as the most innovative with quickest development.

If got a few Moneros too, but a different code base also gets a whole lot of new problems. Still have fast majority in sound, proven, thoroughly vetted coins.

[FreeJack2k2]

I love how people say Litecoin has a "lack of innovation" and then in the same breath would hail Bitcoin for its innovation. They deride Litecoin for not being accepted very many places, where a year ago Bitcoin could barely be spent anywhere, either.

Are gimmicks what we really want in a coin? Or do we want security, liquidity, adoption and dependability? Because the market is FLOODED with gimmicks that only end up serving as a story for pumpers & dumpers to sell people on, jacking up the price until it gets annihilated by the whales who pumped it. All you need is a good story. Auroracoin had a good story and it attracted the idealists in droves. People were claiming it was going to overtake Bitcoin, when it temporarily exceeded Litecoin's market cap. Then it got slapped into the dirt...as predicted. Right now, the new "story" coin is Darkcoin. Unfortunately, its innovation is something that will prevent it from ever seeing widespread adoption and the fact is, the segment of the population it SHOULD attract - the TOR underground - has no interest in it. So the support is not there for its current price; hence, it's a pump waiting to be dumped.

Litecoin, right now, is almost exactly where Bitcoin was at the beginning of 2013 when the first ASIC hardware started shipping for it. It was at about $14 to start 2013. The only real difference is, Litecoin isn't being used to conduct black market business on TOR. But the fact that we're about to see hundreds of millions of dollars poured into dedicated ASIC hardware infrastructure for Litecoin tells me that it isn't "dying a slow death," but has been given a substantial vote of confidence...one which can potentially attract the kind of attention to it in terms of business development and venture capital in 2015 and beyond, that Bitcoin has begun enjoying this year.

All other digital currencies are fighting for table scraps, right now...and it's going to take more than just gimmicks to change that.

Honestly, haven't we seen Bitcoin declared dead enough times to know better than to do this with Litecoin? Don't be distracted by the fact that there are 200+ altcoins out there scrambling for attention...it hasn't changed Litecoin's position in the market, at all.

Sometimes I think people mistakenly judge a coin's success by how vocal or active the social media "communities" in support of them are...and that's a fallacy. Personally, I care where the money is going...and the money is going into Litecoin, right now.

As ever, for me, the motivation to be in Litecoin 50/50 with Bitcoin is simple...Charles Lee and Warren Togami are public figures who aren't sitting on a million inactive coin that they could potentially demolish the market with on a whim. Nobody really knows who Satoshi is, but he's an eccentric recluse who's got a million Bitcoin to his name and if he decided to end his experiment, he easily could destroy every bit of confidence anyone has in Bitcoin by dumping it all at once. This, to me, is Bitcoin's biggest weakness.

[TaunSew]

Can't afford tesla.  Only place near me taking BTC are tattoo parlours and cannabis shops.

Still very early in cryptos..  only $10 billion versus dot.com which was $7 trillion years ago.  LTC or any alt could replace BTC with ease.

[poornamelessme]

I love how people say Litecoin has a "lack of innovation" and then in the same breath would hail Bitcoin for its innovation.

I'm not entirely sure people are saying that. Bitcoin has its spot due to being first... if it came out today, I expect it'd get passed over for a lack of innovation.

As for widespread adoption, again, multi coin processors probably will handle that in the end. Which means it's a level playing field for all popular coins. And if we all had to be perfectly honest here, one of the reasons btc rose like it did was due to somewhat shady transactions, so I wouldn't rule out anon coins based on that fact alone.

As for the idea that ltc is safer than btc, due to the risk of a dump -- I'd argue that if btc crashes due to Satoshi dumping, that he takes everyone with him. That means ltc, alts, crypto in general. If btc dies, ltc and friends go too. Consumer confidence in cryptos would be gone forever.

[FreeJack2k2]

As for the idea that ltc is safer than btc, due to the risk of a dump -- I'd argue that if btc crashes due to Satoshi dumping, that he takes everyone with him. That means ltc, alts, crypto in general. If btc dies, ltc and friends go too. Consumer confidence in cryptos would be gone forever.

I'm not sure I buy that argument. Bitcoin has had many crossroads where consumer confidence was shaken in it and it recovered because people were made aware that it was not a weakness in the protocol or software, but something external. It might be crippling to Bitcoin to have Satoshi knock the price into the dirt by selling off his hoard, but I don't think it means the end of digital currency...it's a technology whose time has come. Just because the stock market has suffered numerous crashes and people have lost a lot of money in it, that hasn't stopped the stock market from continuing to march forward.

I just think anyone who is in crypto in a serious way needs to really look at the fact that Satoshi HAS such a hoard...and to me, Litecoin is the alternative.

As for multi-coin payment processors...the number of coins they accept will be limited by liquidity and almost no other cryptos have sufficient liquidity to support significant commerce.

[poornamelessme]

As for the idea that ltc is safer than btc, due to the risk of a dump -- I'd argue that if btc crashes due to Satoshi dumping, that he takes everyone with him. That means ltc, alts, crypto in general. If btc dies, ltc and friends go too. Consumer confidence in cryptos would be gone forever.

I'm not sure I buy that argument. Bitcoin has had many crossroads where consumer confidence was shaken in it and it recovered because people were made aware that it was not a weakness in the protocol or software, but something external. It might be crippling to Bitcoin to have Satoshi knock the price into the dirt by selling off his hoard, but I don't think it means the end of digital currency...it's a technology whose time has come. Just because the stock market has suffered numerous crashes and people have lost a lot of money in it, that hasn't stopped the stock market from continuing to march forward.

I just think anyone who is in crypto in a serious way needs to really look at the fact that Satoshi HAS such a hoard...and to me, Litecoin is the alternative.

I think since bitcoin is the one crypto that the general public has heard of, if it falls apart in a dump, that there really won't be a safe haven in any crypto at all. For other cryptos to survive if btc dies, I think their overall acceptance will have to be much greater than it currently is. To the general public, they have heard of btc... and, umm.. .maybe that funny looking coin they saw in a nascar race.

But even I'm wrong here, and ltc would thrive if btc got dumped to smithereens, I wouldn't say that's a good reason to invest in ltc. That means you are placing a bet that btc will get knocked not only from the #1 spot, but get killed in a dump. Yeah, sure, it could happen ... but I wouldn't want to bet that it will happen.

[poornamelessme]

As for multi-coin payment processors...the number of coins they accept will be limited by liquidity and almost no other cryptos have sufficient liquidity to support significant commerce.

You must have edited this in, or I missed it.

Popular coins probably can handle it. That gocoin thingy that supports ltc and gift card purchases, for instance, also accept dogecoin. And I believe they have nxt planned soon too.

So you are right in the sense that no, not every alt will be accepted. But it will be more than just ltc. It already is.

[FreeJack2k2]

But even I'm wrong here, and ltc would thrive if btc got dumped to smithereens, I wouldn't say that's a good reason to invest in ltc. That means you are placing a bet that btc will get knocked not only from the #1 spot, but get killed in a dump. Yeah, sure, it could happen ... but I wouldn't want to bet that it will happen.

I'm not in Litecoin because I believe it has the potential to take over Bitcoin's spot...I still think that's wholly unlikely. However, I'm a BIG believer in choice, and not having only one point of failure.

I always liken it to the situation we have with the internet, today. We have protocols that drive the network that have forced developers to shoehorn things into it that perhaps it's not best suited to...streaming media would be a biggie. If we had started with multiple networks, one could have evolved to specialize in streaming media and now you would possibly have a much more efficient way of getting video/audio across the network, more bandwidth (or less required bandwidth) and who knows what else it may have opened up, to have an alternative. The point is, having a choice breeds innovation.

At the protocol level, Litecoin has some significant differences that may ultimately lend it to applications that Bitcoin doesn't. It is insulated from certain issues in the Bitcoin core development, because it is a separate team (although they work closely with the Bitcoin developers) and they have a different design philosophy, in many ways. Bitcoin is going to be under tremendous political pressure from developers and elsewhere to be this or that, whereas Litecoin has less pressure to accommodate. So no...nobody's going to convince me that it isn't a big positive that we have Litecoin around.

[poornamelessme]

The point is, having a choice breeds innovation.

At the protocol level, Litecoin has some significant differences that may ultimately lend it to applications that Bitcoin doesn't. It is insulated from certain issues in the Bitcoin core development, because it is a separate team (although they work closely with the Bitcoin developers) and they have a different design philosophy, in many ways. Bitcoin is going to be under tremendous political pressure from developers and elsewhere to be this or that, whereas Litecoin has less pressure to accommodate. So no...nobody's going to convince me that it isn't a big positive that we have Litecoin around.

That is the one way I could see Litecoin being worthwhile; basically innovating off its differences with bitcoin. The problem is, I haven't seen any real innovation, nor plans for anything in the near future that makes me think litecoin should go up in value.

Of course it may, and perhaps there are things planned that are quite unique. But, again, it does appear to be more a 'stay the course' type of coin, even if that course has been leading downward. I wouldn't tell anyone to invest or not invest in any coin, but I simply don't see a reason for myself to invest in it.

[mymenace]

lets understand marketing

infrastructure is the key for investors and businesses to adopt a coin

I run a business and as yet my customers do not understand crypto

If i was to offer them crypto i would select a coin that has a strong infrastructure and investors


btc and ltc both have enterprises supporting this, why is there asic machines on sale if the market was not there, why is there atm's being built if the markets not there

please provide me with another coin that has the infrastructure to support my customers cash exchange and a network that is very hard to fall down like other altcoins have after a few months

[El Dude]

I love how people say Litecoin has a "lack of innovation" and then in the same breath would hail Bitcoin for its innovation. They deride Litecoin for not being accepted very many places, where a year ago Bitcoin could barely be spent anywhere, either.

Are gimmicks what we really want in a coin? Or do we want security, liquidity, adoption and dependability? Because the market is FLOODED with gimmicks that only end up serving as a story for pumpers & dumpers to sell people on, jacking up the price until it gets annihilated by the whales who pumped it. All you need is a good story. Auroracoin had a good story and it attracted the idealists in droves. People were claiming it was going to overtake Bitcoin, when it temporarily exceeded Litecoin's market cap. Then it got slapped into the dirt...as predicted. Right now, the new "story" coin is Darkcoin. Unfortunately, its innovation is something that will prevent it from ever seeing widespread adoption and the fact is, the segment of the population it SHOULD attract - the TOR underground - has no interest in it. So the support is not there for its current price; hence, it's a pump waiting to be dumped.

Litecoin, right now, is almost exactly where Bitcoin was at the beginning of 2013 when the first ASIC hardware started shipping for it. It was at about $14 to start 2013. The only real difference is, Litecoin isn't being used to conduct black market business on TOR. But the fact that we're about to see hundreds of millions of dollars poured into dedicated ASIC hardware infrastructure for Litecoin tells me that it isn't "dying a slow death," but has been given a substantial vote of confidence...one which can potentially attract the kind of attention to it in terms of business development and venture capital in 2015 and beyond, that Bitcoin has begun enjoying this year.

All other digital currencies are fighting for table scraps, right now...and it's going to take more than just gimmicks to change that.

Honestly, haven't we seen Bitcoin declared dead enough times to know better than to do this with Litecoin? Don't be distracted by the fact that there are 200+ altcoins out there scrambling for attention...it hasn't changed Litecoin's position in the market, at all.

Sometimes I think people mistakenly judge a coin's success by how vocal or active the social media "communities" in support of them are...and that's a fallacy. Personally, I care where the money is going...and the money is going into Litecoin, right now.

As ever, for me, the motivation to be in Litecoin 50/50 with Bitcoin is simple...Charles Lee and Warren Togami are public figures who aren't sitting on a million inactive coin that they could potentially demolish the market with on a whim. Nobody really knows who Satoshi is, but he's an eccentric recluse who's got a million Bitcoin to his name and if he decided to end his experiment, he easily could destroy every bit of confidence anyone has in Bitcoin by dumping it all at once. This, to me, is Bitcoin's biggest weakness.

+1

[FreeJack2k2]

That is the one way I could see Litecoin being worthwhile; basically innovating off its differences with bitcoin. The problem is, I haven't seen any real innovation, nor plans for anything in the near future that makes me think litecoin should go up in value.

Of course it may, and perhaps there are things planned that are quite unique. But, again, it does appear to be more a 'stay the course' type of coin, even if that course has been leading downward. I wouldn't tell anyone to invest or not invest in any coin, but I simply don't see a reason for myself to invest in it.

My feeling is that the real innovation will happen on a user interface level (not just wallets but also services), rather than at the protocol level...although some things may need flexibility with the protocol's core development and if its worth making significant changes at the protocol level, then you proceed accordingly. To that end, I still think that the Litecoin developers and platform are going to be able to remain a lot more flexible and amenable to this stuff than Bitcoin. I think as a result of so much weight being heaped upon Bitcoin, it's going to become pretty inflexible...and that opens up avenues for Litecoin to explore.

[hellscabane]

lets understand marketing

infrastructure is the key for investors and businesses to adopt a coin

I run a business and as yet my customers do not understand crypto

If i was to offer them crypto i would select a coin that has a strong infrastructure and investors


btc and ltc both have enterprises supporting this, why is there asic machines on sale if the market was not there, why is there atm's being built if the markets not there

please provide me with another coin that has the infrastructure to support my customers cash exchange and a network that is very hard to fall down like other altcoins have after a few months

This is very true, relatively speaking, LTC is the only other ledger that is at least significantly secure, especially with ASICs (excluding the possible pool issues). Frankly, the security already established for Bitcoin and the growing security for Litecoin are going to be difficult to beat (and that's what it'll take to overtake either coin). It seems that people keep forgetting that the alternate crypto-currency scene is a fringe of an already fairly fringe scene; so what is great for them isn't going to necessarily be great for a majority of others.

It surprises me that so many people here think that an anon coin or a coin with a ton of nifty features is the bee's knees. Last time I checked, using those other protocols still requires a significant amount of technical knowledge or familiarity. Do we honestly think the majority of people would look for something like that as the alternative to bank-owned fiat? As I see it, the place for improvement is not in anon or new algorithms or nifty new features, but in ease of use and ready accessibility (such as in a improved GUI experience like someone had already mentioned).

However, infrastructure is significantly more limited than it is with BTC and a lot of other alts are quickly catching up. LTC still has a sizable edge, but that gap is closing rather than expanding.

[CoinHoarder]

I love how people say Litecoin has a "lack of innovation" and then in the same breath would hail Bitcoin for its innovation.

Are you kidding me? Bitcoin was the first crypto currency, it is innovation at its finest. Sure, money in itself is not innovative, but a decentralized psuedo anonymous currency was certainly innovative. They continue to improve upon Bitcoin and add new features, improving on the original innovation, which is why I would still call it innovative. My grudge with Litecoin is that they simply copy those features.

They deride Litecoin for not being accepted very many places, where a year ago Bitcoin could barely be spent anywhere, either.

I think Litecoin is actually accepted at a lot of places, but if it weren't number 2 on the market cap list, I don't think this would be true. Businesses go after where the money is, as they are in the business of making money.

Are gimmicks what we really want in a coin? Or do we want security, liquidity, adoption and dependability? Because the market is FLOODED with gimmicks that only end up serving as a story for pumpers & dumpers to sell people on, jacking up the price until it gets annihilated by the whales who pumped it. All you need is a good story. Auroracoin had a good story and it attracted the idealists in droves. People were claiming it was going to overtake Bitcoin, when it temporarily exceeded Litecoin's market cap. Then it got slapped into the dirt...as predicted. Right now, the new "story" coin is Darkcoin. Unfortunately, its innovation is something that will prevent it from ever seeing widespread adoption and the fact is, the segment of the population it SHOULD attract - the TOR underground - has no interest in it. So the support is not there for its current price; hence, it's a pump waiting to be dumped.

There's a big difference in between gimmicks and innovation. I agree that most of the "innovative" alternative coins that have come out have been mainly gimmicky and only made small changes, however there are some truly innovative ones out there as well. I think to brush everything off as a gimmick is a mistake. I agree Auroracoin was somewhat of a gimmick, but it was also innovative in the fact that no one had distributed a crypto currency like that before. Just because something is innovative doesn't mean I would think it is a good investment, and that is usually in the case of the innovation(s) being a gimmick. I don't think anyone actually thought Aurora Coin would overtake Bitcoin. The most vocal supporters of the gimmicky pump and dump coins, are usually people trying to pump up the price so that they can dump them, and it is hardly a shared community sentiment.

There are many non nefarious reasons someone would want privacy. For example, the want to stop the NSA, CIA, and Corporations (etcetera) intercepting and studying our data. Pretty much everything from what we look at on the internet, where we go, what we do, what we like, what we don't like, and reading private communications. The list goes on and an and I think in this day and age (thanks Snowden) people are more aware of the need for privacy. The TOR underground is understanbly a bit comprehensive to start using new technologies.. who knows who developed them and what their purposes were for doing so. There could very well be a back door to the CIA, admittedly that is unlikely but when you're selling drugs would you really want to take chances like this? They will eventually move over to something more private and anonymous, but it is too early to make that transition.

Litecoin, right now, is almost exactly where Bitcoin was at the beginning of 2013 when the first ASIC hardware started shipping for it. It was at about $14 to start 2013. The only real difference is, Litecoin isn't being used to conduct black market business on TOR. But the fact that we're about to see hundreds of millions of dollars poured into dedicated ASIC hardware infrastructure for Litecoin tells me that it isn't "dying a slow death," but has been given a substantial vote of confidence...one which can potentially attract the kind of attention to it in terms of business development and venture capital in 2015 and beyond, that Bitcoin has begun enjoying this year.

All other digital currencies are fighting for table scraps, right now...and it's going to take more than just gimmicks to change that.

Just because difficulty goes up it does not mean that price will follow, and the "all other digital currencies are fighting for table scraps" goes along with the "too big to fail" mantra that I don't believe applies to crypto coins- or anything for that matter.

Honestly, haven't we seen Bitcoin declared dead enough times to know better than to do this with Litecoin? Don't be distracted by the fact that there are 200+ altcoins out there scrambling for attention...it hasn't changed Litecoin's position in the market, at all.

It's mostly crazys and stupids that have called Bitcoin dead in the past. They don't understand that crypto currencies are a movement, and Bitcoin is at the forefront of this movement. It will likely stay there for some time. I don't think these people understand the network effect, something which is more applicable to Bitcoin than Litecoin. You can't kill movements, especially political, human rights, and religious ones.  I feel crypto currencies are a political and human rights movement wrapped into one in the form of currency.

Sometimes I think people mistakenly judge a coin's success by how vocal or active the social media "communities" in support of them are...and that's a fallacy. Personally, I care where the money is going...and the money is going into Litecoin, right now.

The money WAS going into Litecoin. It has been on a steady decline for the past 6 months, the same amount of Litecoins today can only buy you half as many Bitcoins s they could 6 months ago. What you are seeing is the result of Litecoin being on top for so long and the natural choice to be the #2 crypto currency. That choice is not so clear cut anymore, and for some like me it is not even a hard decision.

As ever, for me, the motivation to be in Litecoin 50/50 with Bitcoin is simple...Charles Lee and Warren Togami are public figures who aren't sitting on a million inactive coin that they could potentially demolish the market with on a whim. Nobody really knows who Satoshi is, but he's an eccentric recluse who's got a million Bitcoin to his name and if he decided to end his experiment, he easily could destroy every bit of confidence anyone has in Bitcoin by dumping it all at once. This, to me, is Bitcoin's biggest weakness.

Mark my words, Satoshi will never dump his coins. This is because for Satoshi, Bitcoin is more of a political and human rights movement in the form of a currency. Satoshi empowered this movement through the one thing most people care about most in this world- money. Bitcoin is just Satoshi's soap box.

[FreeJack2k2]

However, infrastructure is significantly more limited than it is with BTC and a lot of other alts are quickly catching up. LTC still has a sizable edge, but that gap is closing rather than expanding.

Though in fairness, you write this as ASICs are just now starting to take over the network. We're going to have a much different looking picture at the end of 2014. When you look at Litecoin's network difficulty and hashrate, it dwarfs all other alts.

Litecoin's network will never have the hashrate or difficulty that Bitcoin does, because of Scrypt. That limits the amount of hashrate that can be squeezed out of ASIC hardware, relative to power consumption. But in relative terms, Litecoin's network over the next year will likely grow to become just as secure as Bitcoin's is, today...if the current momentum is any indication.

Bitcoin looked stagnant for a long, long time before ASICs hit it, and more attention started getting drawn to it. That attention came from the investment being made in its infrastructure. That vote of confidence was essentially what catapulted it into the consciousness of venture capitalists and investors. So the premise that Litecoin is somehow dying a slow death, while hundreds of millions are being poured into hardware infrastructure seems a tad premature, to me.

[FreeJack2k2]

Are you kidding me? Bitcoin was the first crypto currency, it is innovation at its finest. Sure, money in itself is not innovative, but a decentralized psuedo anonymous currency was certainly innovative. They continue to improve upon Bitcoin and add new features, improving on the original innovation, which is why I would still call it innovative. My grudge with Litecoin is that they simply copy those features.

Are you not aware that a large amount of the improvements to Bitcoin actually COME FROM Litecoin's developers? Warren and Charles have been contributing to Bitcoin development for years. To say that Litecoin merely copies Bitcoin features is erroneous.

Just because difficulty goes up it does not mean that price will follow, and the "all other digital currencies are fighting for table scraps" goes along with the "too big to fail" mantra that I don't believe applies to crypto coins- or anything for that matter.

It isn't about difficulty. It's about investment. The smart money always follows the money...and the amount of money being poured into dedicated hardware for Litecoin infrastructure right now is very significant. There are a lot of reasons for it, from miners hoarding until it's profitable to increased media exposure attracted to growth, venture capital investments, etc...

As for your comment about Bitcoin's network effect...it is Litecoin's network effect that has kept it in the #2 spot for so long and nobody is even close to dethroning it. So you can't have your cake and eat it, too - Bitcoin has a network effect, true...but so does Litecoin.

The money WAS going into Litecoin. It has been on a steady decline for the past 6 months, the same amount of Litecoins today can only buy you half as many Bitcoins s they could 6 months ago. What you are seeing is the result of Litecoin being on top for so long and the natural choice to be the #2 crypto currency. That choice is not so clear cut anymore, and for some like me it is not even a hard decision.

The reason for the sharp decline in Litecoin's price relative to Bitcoin can be marked with a giant flashing neon arrow at the first couple weeks of May, when the Innosilicon A2 Terminator 80Mh/s systems started shipping. This gave a small group of miners an outsized share of the block rewards, due to the huge proportion of hashing power they added to the network. They proceeded to dump their coin (presumably in a mad dash toward ROI before competitors came on the scene) and miners, not always being the most educated on the dynamics of markets, were content to just keep dumping into weakness. This was combined with a strong rally in Bitcoin, which traditionally sees investment capital leave Litecoin into Bitcoin, to take advantage of the move up. Recently the ratio took a jump in Litecoin's favor when the rally petered out.

Once ASIC hardware takes over the network and it reaches a relative equilibrium of hashrate ownership close to what it had when it was GPU-driven, the dumping mentality should not be as pronounced. You are just failing to observe the reasons for the drop and you aren't seeing that the money that's being poured into Litecoin infrastructure (regardless of how much fiat capital is in it) is actually a giant vote of confidence, and people should be following that money.

Mark my words, Satoshi will never dump his coins. This is because for Satoshi, Bitcoin is more of a political and human rights movement in the form of a currency. Satoshi empowered this movement through the one thing most people care about most in this world- money. Bitcoin is just Satoshi's soap box.

I'm not convinced of that. Satoshi cut all ties and disappeared the instant that Gavin Andresen said he was meeting with the CIA about Bitcoin. He hasn't had a thing to do with it since, hasn't been an advocate of it, has not come out of hiding except to say that he is NOT Dorian Nakamoto. A guy like that, who takes such pains to ensure his privacy and who has divested himself of all relationships related to Bitcoin, doesn't strike me as particularly trustworthy. I'm not going to put my faith in the assurances of some random person who cannot possibly know Satoshi's mind or intentions.

[rikkejohn]

It's all guesswork, but LTC doesn't look like its dying to me. Apart from it being priced at nearly $10, which was a dream not so long ago, it has a history of following BTC and dipping or rising against it in response to whatever is happening with BTC. It has been steady all the time, apart from one insane leap on BTC's tail.

Fact is, mining is not showing signs of slowing sown, the difficulty is going up, and I can't see why that when Scrypt Asics become popular, that people won't turn them on LTC causing the difficulty to increase comparative to the new hashing power.

Fair enough, t's not a "cutting edge" crypto these days, but neither is BTC. In fact, BTC is horrible to use. But I'm not betting against it losing its pole position.

BTC and LTC are King and Queen, and I can't see anything upsetting that situation at this point in time.

[rikkejohn]

Interesting read. Litecoin is actually the coin I first read about that got me interested in cryptos back in Jan (read some article somewhere on it). Before then, I had no idea that alt coins even existed and a very rudimentary knowledge of bitcoin. I thought I'd play around with this crypto stuff and maybe I could get a free litecoin out of it, just for fun.

I never bothered really going past that 1 ltc (and have since sold it) and now have a small chunk of btc instead. The problem I saw, and still see, is a lack of innovation and the fact that there really is no reason for the value of ltc to rise a whole lot anymore.

I think the OP touched on one really important fact, multi coin processors for purchases. They already exist, and I think they will become the standard if cryptos make any headway into being used as a currency by the general public at all. And that means there will be no difference between ltc, doge, nxt, or whatevercoin, when ConsumerX decides to use crypto to buy something.

The only coins then that could stand out a bit are those that have unique features (nxt flavors, ethereum, maidsafe, anon coins, etc). And I'm not saying any of them will even take the #2 spot, but that #2-#6 spot may end up being somewhat bunched up close to one another.

I agree, Litecoin has a severe lack of innovation and that will be it's undoing. It's not really accepted at much stores and it doesnt have widespread adoptance. Only a matter of time when Litecoin gets taken over.

Your opinion is worth nothing at all. You were the guy with the self-moderated thread in which you deleted every post that supported litecoin. It made you look very foolish.

And anyway, BTC is not widely adopted, so you have scored yet another own goal.

[darkota]

Interesting read. Litecoin is actually the coin I first read about that got me interested in cryptos back in Jan (read some article somewhere on it). Before then, I had no idea that alt coins even existed and a very rudimentary knowledge of bitcoin. I thought I'd play around with this crypto stuff and maybe I could get a free litecoin out of it, just for fun.

I never bothered really going past that 1 ltc (and have since sold it) and now have a small chunk of btc instead. The problem I saw, and still see, is a lack of innovation and the fact that there really is no reason for the value of ltc to rise a whole lot anymore.

I think the OP touched on one really important fact, multi coin processors for purchases. They already exist, and I think they will become the standard if cryptos make any headway into being used as a currency by the general public at all. And that means there will be no difference between ltc, doge, nxt, or whatevercoin, when ConsumerX decides to use crypto to buy something.

The only coins then that could stand out a bit are those that have unique features (nxt flavors, ethereum, maidsafe, anon coins, etc). And I'm not saying any of them will even take the #2 spot, but that #2-#6 spot may end up being somewhat bunched up close to one another.

I agree, Litecoin has a severe lack of innovation and that will be it's undoing. It's not really accepted at much stores and it doesnt have widespread adoptance. Only a matter of time when Litecoin gets taken over.

Your opinion is worth nothing at all. You were the guy with the self-moderated thread in which you deleted every post that supported litecoin. It made you look very foolish.

And anyway, BTC is not widely adopted, so you have scored yet another own goal.

BTC is accpeted at over 50,000 stores as well as MAJOR brands like Expedia, Overstock, Tigerdirect, etc etc.

Litecoin is accepted as none of those stores....and is just another shit alt coin.

[gutshot]

BTC is accpeted at over 50,000 stores as well as MAJOR brands like Expedia, Overstock, Tigerdirect, etc etc.

Litecoin is accepted as none of those stores....and is just another shit alt coin.

a 287 million dollar shit coin - Good one! Some comedians round these parts....

[El Dude]

Litecoin 24 hour volume $ 1,306,188   
NXT  24 hour volume $ 60,987


which one looks like the shit coin ?

[Saigonsmokes]

Interesting read. Litecoin is actually the coin I first read about that got me interested in cryptos back in Jan (read some article somewhere on it). Before then, I had no idea that alt coins even existed and a very rudimentary knowledge of bitcoin. I thought I'd play around with this crypto stuff and maybe I could get a free litecoin out of it, just for fun.

I never bothered really going past that 1 ltc (and have since sold it) and now have a small chunk of btc instead. The problem I saw, and still see, is a lack of innovation and the fact that there really is no reason for the value of ltc to rise a whole lot anymore.

I think the OP touched on one really important fact, multi coin processors for purchases. They already exist, and I think they will become the standard if cryptos make any headway into being used as a currency by the general public at all. And that means there will be no difference between ltc, doge, nxt, or whatevercoin, when ConsumerX decides to use crypto to buy something.

The only coins then that could stand out a bit are those that have unique features (nxt flavors, ethereum, maidsafe, anon coins, etc). And I'm not saying any of them will even take the #2 spot, but that #2-#6 spot may end up being somewhat bunched up close to one another.

I agree, Litecoin has a severe lack of innovation and that will be it's undoing. It's not really accepted at much stores and it doesnt have widespread adoptance. Only a matter of time when Litecoin gets taken over.

Your opinion is worth nothing at all. You were the guy with the self-moderated thread in which you deleted every post that supported litecoin. It made you look very foolish.

And anyway, BTC is not widely adopted, so you have scored yet another own goal.

BTC is accpeted at over 50,000 stores as well as MAJOR brands like Expedia, Overstock, Tigerdirect, etc etc.

Litecoin is accepted as none of those stores....and is just another shit alt coin.

Was Bitcoin accepted at these stores 8 months ago Mr Troll? Could you spend them on Expedia, Overstock, Tigerdirect last Xmas - no you could not.

Shame for you, you cant delete posts like you did on your self moderated thread. All your posts you make here were answered on your post below, but you deleted them. Troll with an agenda - everyone should ignore your posts.

You told everyone you just deleted 2 posts on the thread - i count over 20 posts deleted by you. What a joke you are and so stupid you thought you could lie and get away with it.

https://bitcointa.lk/threads/litecoin-is-officially-dead.331214/page-5

Your NXT and DRK will not overtake LTC - No matter what FUD you spread.

[mymenace]

Litecoin 24 hour volume $ 1,306,188   
NXT  24 hour volume $ 60,987


which one looks like the shit coin ?

+1

best not to refer to NXT as shit, strong team, community and developers (as the market cap proves) everyone deserves a chance

[CoinHoarder]

Are you not aware that a large amount of the improvements to Bitcoin actually COME FROM Litecoin's developers? Warren and Charles have been contributing to Bitcoin development for years. To say that Litecoin merely copies Bitcoin features is erroneous.

To say a large amount of the improvements made to Bitcoin over the years have come largely from Litecoin developers is a rediuclous statement. I'm well aware they have made a couple security and efficiency improvements, however those improvements are dwarfed when you look at all the improvements that have been made on Bitcoin since Litecoin's inception.

It isn't about difficulty. It's about investment. The smart money always follows the money...and the amount of money being poured into dedicated hardware for Litecoin infrastructure right now is very significant. There are a lot of reasons for it, from miners hoarding until it's profitable to increased media exposure attracted to growth, venture capital investments, etc...

As for your comment about Bitcoin's network effect...it is Litecoin's network effect that has kept it in the #2 spot for so long and nobody is even close to dethroning it. So you can't have your cake and eat it, too - Bitcoin has a network effect, true...but so does Litecoin.

Smart money blindly follows people like sheep just because others have done the same before them? That doesn't sound like smart money to me. Some of the more innovative coins lately have been purely PoS with no mining involved. To say that Litecoin will remain #2 because of all the money pouring in for mining hardware is again a fallacy. There are other crypto currency networks that are more secure than Litecoin due to using different methods of PoS and PoW, sometimes combining the two to exemplify the matter. Furthermore, the mining hardware being made for Litecoin is Scrypt mining hardware, not Litecoin mining hardware. Most people only care about profit and throw them on a multi pool of some sort as it makes them more money. If there weren't a million other Scrypt coins that people could also mine with Scrypt ASICs, then it might not of made sense to make one just yet.

I agree Litecoin has it's own network effect, however it is not nearly as strong as Bitcoin's network effect. Search Bitcoin in Google news and tell me how many articles pop up, then search for Litecoin. You don't even need to tell me the answer, because I already know that there will be much less articles about Litecoin. As I believe I said in the OP, it is Bitcoin that is in the news all day everyday, not Litecoin. Litecoin has a small network effect that is somewhat limited within people engaged in the crypto currency community, however Bitcoin's network effect stretches much wider than that. Since Litecoin's network effect is limited somewhat to people engaged in the community, they are more likely to look at Litecoin for what it is.. Bitcoin with a few changed parameters.

The reason for the sharp decline in Litecoin's price relative to Bitcoin can be marked with a giant flashing neon arrow at the first couple weeks of May, when the Innosilicon A2 Terminator 80Mh/s systems started shipping. This gave a small group of miners an outsized share of the block rewards, due to the huge proportion of hashing power they added to the network. They proceeded to dump their coin (presumably in a mad dash toward ROI before competitors came on the scene) and miners, not always being the most educated on the dynamics of markets, were content to just keep dumping into weakness. This was combined with a strong rally in Bitcoin, which traditionally sees investment capital leave Litecoin into Bitcoin, to take advantage of the move up. Recently the ratio took a jump in Litecoin's favor when the rally petered out.

Once ASIC hardware takes over the network and it reaches a relative equilibrium of hashrate ownership close to what it had when it was GPU-driven, the dumping mentality should not be as pronounced. You are just failing to observe the reasons for the drop and you aren't seeing that the money that's being poured into Litecoin infrastructure (regardless of how much fiat capital is in it) is actually a giant vote of confidence, and people should be following that money.

I wouldn't be so sure that Innosilicon was the only reason for the decline in price, in fact I am sure that is not the only reason. The fact of the matter is that we can only speculate to the reason, however I feel that the market sentiment has changed over the past 6 months. Six months ago if you asked me if Litecoin would be the #2 currency in two years, I would have told you yes. Now, six months later, that decision is not so easy anymore and the market is reflecting that.

Again... the money flowing into ASIC hardware argument is flawed because some of the most innovative coins coming out don't even need mining hardware to secure their block chains. It was estimated in December that the Bitcoin network uses $15 million dollars in electricity everyday. If you can't see the value in PoW alternatives, then you must hate planet earth. The money being poured into ASICs are just smart people (ASIC manufacturers) trying to make a buck off of less smart people (ASIC buyers.) Nothing more, nothing less. If these magic money machines actually made any money at all, why wouldn't they just keep them? I realize from experience it is tough to scale a mining operation, however most of these ASIC manufacturers just want FIAT/BTC. They are not making Scrypt ASICs to support Litecoin, they are doing it to make money.

I'm not convinced of that. Satoshi cut all ties and disappeared the instant that Gavin Andresen said he was meeting with the CIA about Bitcoin. He hasn't had a thing to do with it since, hasn't been an advocate of it, has not come out of hiding except to say that he is NOT Dorian Nakamoto. A guy like that, who takes such pains to ensure his privacy and who has divested himself of all relationships related to Bitcoin, doesn't strike me as particularly trustworthy. I'm not going to put my faith in the assurances of some random person who cannot possibly know Satoshi's mind or intentions.

I wouldn't suggest you take my word for that either. I propose you go and read through Satoshi's posts on these forums and come to that conclusion yourself. Furthermore, if he hasn't touched the coins yet.. which were worth about 1,000,000,000 dollars at Bitcoin's peak in December, then I doubt he will ever touch them. If he was going to dump, then 1 billion dollars would be quite tempting. Satoshi must have balls of steel if he is planning on dumping and hasn't yet. One more thing.. if Satoshi dumps then it will likely get out who he is, and as you can tell he doesn't want that to happen.

[FreeJack2k2]

BTC is accpeted at over 50,000 stores as well as MAJOR brands like Expedia, Overstock, Tigerdirect, etc etc.

Litecoin is accepted as none of those stores....and is just another shit alt coin.

Yeah, and you know where Bitcoin was accepted at the start of 2013? The Silk Road...aaaand, that's about it.

[FreeJack2k2]

Snip.

So, remove the Litecoin logo from your avatar and call it quits, man...because it sounds to me like you're now just trying to convince yourself that Litecoin is destined to fail and are coming up with baseless arguments to support that hypothesis. Unfortunately, the conditions that exist right now, with money flowing into Litecoin infrastructure in the multi-millions (and soon hundreds of millions), are likely to lead to a lot of growth next year. I can assure you that Litecoin will not be slowed by your decision to bail out on it.

You are basically saying that what's good for the goose is NOT good for the gander and what has happened in Bitcoin, with smart investment money following infrastructure money, is not going to happen in Litecoin...for reasons you can't really articulate. But the fact remains that when significant money is put into Litecoin's backbone and the network is perceived as very secure, that is going to attract a lot of attention from many corners.

Litecoin has a far, far greater chance of success than any other digital currency in existence that isn't called Bitcoin, right now. As for saying that somehow the price relative to Bitcoin is an indicator of market enthusiasm for Litecoin...take another gander at Coinmarketcap and get back to me.

[CoinHoarder]

Snip.

So, remove the Litecoin logo from your avatar and call it quits, man...because it sounds to me like you're now just trying to convince yourself that Litecoin is destined to fail and are coming up with baseless arguments to support that hypothesis. Unfortunately, the conditions that exist right now, with money flowing into Litecoin infrastructure in the millions (and soon hundreds of millions), are likely to lead to a lot of growth next year. I can assure you that Litecoin will not be slowed by your decision to bail out on it.

You are basically saying that what's good for the goose is NOT good for the gander and what has happened in Bitcoin, with smart investment money following infrastructure money, is not going to happen in Litecoin...for reasons you can't really articulate. But the fact remains that when significant money is put into Litecoin's backbone and the network is perceived as very secure, that is going to attract a lot of attention from many corners.

Litecoin has a far, far greater chance of success than any other digital currency in existence that isn't called Bitcoin, right now. As for saying that somehow the price relative to Bitcoin is an indicator of market enthusiasm for Litecoin...take another gander at Coinmarketcap and get back to me.

You can't change Avatars at the moment, otherwise I would have already. Go check in the meta forums. I am not trying to convince myself that Litecoin is destined to fail, I have already convinced myself that Litecoin will fail if it continues down the same path. I feel like my arguments are very well thought through and articulately conveyed. If you feel like they are baseless, well then I guess that is your opinion.

Opinions are like belly buttons, everyone has one. For example, "But the fact remains that when significant money is put into Litecoin's backbone and the network is perceived as very secure, that is going to attract a lot of attention from many corners." Is just an opinion, it doesn't change that fact when you start the sentence with "the fact of the matter remains."

Bitcoin and Litecoin are different crypto currencies with different dynamics. Just because something happened one way with Bitcoin doesn't mean that it will happen that way with Litecoin. Furthermore, the money that was flowing into Bitcoin was going to numerous fronts.. payments processing, exchanges, ATMs, mining hardware, etcetera. Whereas the money flowing into Litecoin is mostly sheep following the pack, ASIC manufacturers trying to make money off of ASIC buyers, and ASIC buyers mistakenly trying to make money off of buying unprofitable mining hardware.

"Litecoin has a far, far greater chance of success than any other digital currency in existence that isn't called Bitcoin, right now. As for saying that somehow the price relative to Bitcoin is an indicator of market enthusiasm for Litecoin...take another gander at Coinmarketcap and get back to me."

I see value in some other alternative coins, and I even think some of them have a large chance to overtake Litecoin as people slowly realize that Litecoin is just one big marketing campaign. If your investment strategy is to look at coinmarketcap and choose the coins with the biggest market cap, then I don't feel like that is a smart investment. According to you, this is how "smart money" operates. However, I think the "even smarter money" does extensive research on all coins that are available and the ones in development, and then comes to a proper decision as to what they will put their money in. After doing this myself I have come to the conclusion that "smart money" isn't actually so smart afterall.

[philipma1957]

Snip.

So, remove the Litecoin logo from your avatar and call it quits, man...because it sounds to me like you're now just trying to convince yourself that Litecoin is destined to fail and are coming up with baseless arguments to support that hypothesis. Unfortunately, the conditions that exist right now, with money flowing into Litecoin infrastructure in the multi-millions (and soon hundreds of millions), are likely to lead to a lot of growth next year. I can assure you that Litecoin will not be slowed by your decision to bail out on it.

You are basically saying that what's good for the goose is NOT good for the gander and what has happened in Bitcoin, with smart investment money following infrastructure money, is not going to happen in Litecoin...for reasons you can't really articulate. But the fact remains that when significant money is put into Litecoin's backbone and the network is perceived as very secure, that is going to attract a lot of attention from many corners.

Litecoin has a far, far greater chance of success than any other digital currency in existence that isn't called Bitcoin, right now. As for saying that somehow the price relative to Bitcoin is an indicator of market enthusiasm for Litecoin...take another gander at Coinmarketcap and get back to me.

I vote with you.  LTC can be mined in house by a guy like me I can get a king A2 and mine or I can get a lot of knights Gridseed blade and mine. 

I can buy 16 gridseed blades with a cc for under 500 each or 83mh for under 8k uses  about   1350 watts  if you hook them to a plat. psu.
    pay it with paypal get 45 day warranty  and get fiat back fast  to pay off the blades

[Bobsurplus]

LMAO, I'll be laughing at you all when Litecoins are worth $1000 each!

[kelsey]

So why is it the few nxt fanbois constantly trolling the forum are the ones so concerned about litecoin's future  

[CoinHoarder]

So why is it the few nxt fanbois constantly trolling the forum are the ones so concerned about litecoin's future  

First of all, I am not a Nxt fan boi. I haven't decided which crypto will be the next one I support apart from Bitcoin, but I am leaning towards Counterparty, Mastercoin, Bitshares AGS, Swarm, Ethereum, or Maidsafe. Possibly Nxt too, although they have some trolls (which coin doesn't), they are doing some interesting and innovative things... the initial distribution is kind of a put off to me though. However, to be fair to them... everyone had a chance to invest and didn't.. that is not their fault.

Secondly, I think the Litecoiners are getting scared. They are getting more organized and are doing more projects recently than ever before. I think most of them can see the writing on the wall and are trying to "right the ship" so to speak. Not only have the Litecoin "haters" been more vocal as of late (which is totally understandable due to the points I've outlined ITT), but the Litecoin supporters are also being more vocal because their throne is being challenged. They are even sending people over here from their forums to try and prove me wrong: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=20631.0

[Saigonsmokes]

So why is it the few nxt fanbois constantly trolling the forum are the ones so concerned about litecoin's future  

First of all, I am not a Nxt fan boi. I haven't decided which crypto will be the next one I support apart from Bitcoin, but I am leaning towards Counterparty, Mastercoin, Bitshares AGS, Swarm, Ethereum, or Maidsafe. Possibly Nxt too, although they have some trolls (which coin doesn't), they are doing some interesting and innovative things... the initial distribution is kind of a put off to me though. However, to be fair to them... everyone had a chance to invest and didn't.. that is not their fault.

Secondly, I think the Litecoiners are getting scared. They are getting more organized and are doing more projects recently than ever before. I think most of them can see the writing on the wall and are trying to "right the ship" so to speak. Not only have the Litecoin "haters" been more vocal as of late (which is totally understandable due to the points I've outlined ITT), but the Litecoin supporters are also being more vocal because their throne is being challenged. They are even sending people over here from their forums to try and prove me wrong: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=20631.0

Thats not true, this is not a troll thread (your OP), its well thought out actually and worthy of discussion. The Trolls that TheMage refers to are people like Darkota who setup self moderated threads and delete all positive comments about Litecoin.

This was posted in that thread about your post:


Offline Wilhelm
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 193
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Re: Fighting the trolls
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2014, 07:18:57 PM »
Quote
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=662058.msg7463029#msg7463029

This is a good critical posting, IMHO. I and several others share his thoughts.


See here, Darkota has deleted most of these threads from Bitcoin Talk - little did the troll know that they were kept online elsewhere:

https://bitcointa.lk/threads/litecoin-is-officially-dead.331214/page-5

[kelsey]

So why is it the few nxt fanbois constantly trolling the forum are the ones so concerned about litecoin's future  

First of all, I am not a Nxt fan boi. I haven't decided which crypto will be the next one I support apart from Bitcoin, but I am leaning towards Counterparty, Mastercoin, Bitshares AGS, Swarm, Ethereum, or Maidsafe. Possibly Nxt too, although they have some trolls (which coin doesn't), they are doing some interesting and innovative things... the initial distribution is kind of a put off to me though. However, to be fair to them... everyone had a chance to invest and didn't.. that is not their fault.

Secondly, I think the Litecoiners are getting scared. They are getting more organized and are doing more projects recently than ever before. I think most of them can see the writing on the wall and are trying to "right the ship" so to speak. Not only have the Litecoin "haters" been more vocal as of late (which is totally understandable due to the points I've outlined ITT), but the Litecoin supporters are also being more vocal because their throne is being challenged. They are even sending people over here from their forums to try and prove me wrong: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=20631.0

I wasn't refering to you, even you have to admit, whether you agree with certain points they are making or not, there is a few diehard nxt supporters pumping out thread after thread if ltc is dead type posts, simply to push nxt.

I believe, even though I disagree with much of it, your opinion is your honest opinion.

[CoinHoarder]

So why is it the few nxt fanbois constantly trolling the forum are the ones so concerned about litecoin's future  

First of all, I am not a Nxt fan boi. I haven't decided which crypto will be the next one I support apart from Bitcoin, but I am leaning towards Counterparty, Mastercoin, Bitshares AGS, Swarm, Ethereum, or Maidsafe. Possibly Nxt too, although they have some trolls (which coin doesn't), they are doing some interesting and innovative things... the initial distribution is kind of a put off to me though. However, to be fair to them... everyone had a chance to invest and didn't.. that is not their fault.

Secondly, I think the Litecoiners are getting scared. They are getting more organized and are doing more projects recently than ever before. I think most of them can see the writing on the wall and are trying to "right the ship" so to speak. Not only have the Litecoin "haters" been more vocal as of late (which is totally understandable due to the points I've outlined ITT), but the Litecoin supporters are also being more vocal because their throne is being challenged. They are even sending people over here from their forums to try and prove me wrong: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=20631.0

I wasn't refering to you, even you have to admit, whether you agree with certain points they are making or not, there is a few diehard nxt supporters pumping out thread after thread if ltc is dead type posts, simply to push nxt.

I believe, even though I disagree with much of it, your opinion is your honest opinion.

Fair enough, it is certainly my honest opinion. I think I am done here unless someone brings up something else to talk about, as I feel like we are beating a dead horse. Perhaps I was already beating a dead horse when I made this thread, but I received some flak for leaving the Litecoin community and I wanted to explain myself thoroughly.

[smoothie]

Giant wall of text.

What would be the defining point of Litecoin being dead?

You can't slowly die yet never die.

[smoothie]

thanks for this well reasoned post.  

do you feel the added security of the litecoin blockchain with new asics on the way will prolong the life of litecoin, or accelerate its demise?

It's hard to say. I feel like in the long run it will be a bad thing, but the effects of the centralization of Bitcoin/Litecoin mining won't be felt for some time. As corporations, old money, and old money FIAT take over mining, the affects will start to show. At that point they are no longer decentralized currencies, it is moving that way already.

I think Litecoin will remain number 2 through at least the end of the year and possibly next year too. However, things are moving so quickly that it is completely possible that its demise could happen sooner rather than later. I think Bitcoin will be much harder to topple than Litecoin.

what I find odd is you already publicly declared you no longer support litecoin yet you still want to talk about it as if it matters.

 

[smoothie]

Bitcoin is nowhere mass adoption by the general public, litecoin is positioned well should that happen.

why do litecoin supporters claim this?  I think more people know what dogecoin is than litecoin. 

People also know that dogecoin was created as a joke. Who is supposed to take it seriously after that being a fact? lol

[smoothie]

It's a good read. I agree, Litecoin is dying a slow death. It has very little going for it compared to the more modern innovative coins like BlackCoin and VeriCoin.

Very true, I made a thread detailing why Litecoin is already dead, it only has 20 btc worth of volume on Mintpal..

And a daily 1000BTC average per day volume on BTC-e. My estimated average there is likely lower than the actual average over the past year.

[smoothie]

Dakota and Devphp are obvious paid NXT sockpupet who think shitty ipo nxt will overtake nxt won't happen no matter how hard they try.

NXT is the future of crypto. 1000000x better than Litecoin could ever dream of being.

Comparing NXT to Litecoin is like comparing Superman to a squirrel.

The free market seems to think differently currently based on traded volume and price and overall community support.

[kalus]

Bitcoin is nowhere mass adoption by the general public, litecoin is positioned well should that happen.

why do litecoin supporters claim this?  I think more people know what dogecoin is than litecoin. 

People also know that dogecoin was created as a joke. Who is supposed to take it seriously after that being a fact? lol

nice, but that doesn't answer the question.

litecoin is positioned poorly outside of the incestuous cryptocurrency community.  the number one use of litecoin is to proxy mine bitcoin by trading rapidly-depreciating ltc for btc with scrypt asics, and past this narrow function, i don't see litecoin being used anywhere else.  litecoin is not positioned well at all in terms of general adoption by the unwashed masses.  

I think this lack of public awareness is part of the reason for the current state of litecoin.  I still own litecoin, but i'm starting to understand more reasons not to own litecoin.

[smoothie]

So why is it the few nxt fanbois constantly trolling the forum are the ones so concerned about litecoin's future  

First of all, I am not a Nxt fan boi. I haven't decided which crypto will be the next one I support apart from Bitcoin, but I am leaning towards Counterparty, Mastercoin, Bitshares AGS, Swarm, Ethereum, or Maidsafe. Possibly Nxt too, although they have some trolls (which coin doesn't), they are doing some interesting and innovative things... the initial distribution is kind of a put off to me though. However, to be fair to them... everyone had a chance to invest and didn't.. that is not their fault.

Secondly, I think the Litecoiners are getting scared. They are getting more organized and are doing more projects recently than ever before. I think most of them can see the writing on the wall and are trying to "right the ship" so to speak. Not only have the Litecoin "haters" been more vocal as of late (which is totally understandable due to the points I've outlined ITT), but the Litecoin supporters are also being more vocal because their throne is being challenged. They are even sending people over here from their forums to try and prove me wrong: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=20631.0

You think.

So you are just speculating.

Got it.

I'm a litecoin supporter and no I am not scared nor have I gotten the notion that the community for LTC is scared as well.

Anyone can go back into CH's post history on this forum and the Litecointalk.org forum and see how much Coinhoarder is butthurt. For what real reason I can't say for sure but what I do know is he tried to get the LTC devs to make certain changes to the LTC protocol and it fell upon deaf ears so he took his ball and went home crying.

Now he is here still talking about LTC even though he claims it will die. And instead of just seeing if his prediction is true and let it be he is still talking about LTC which is keeping it alive.

As long as people are talking about LTC or trading it or mining it...it isn't dead in my view.

[smoothie]

Bitcoin is nowhere mass adoption by the general public, litecoin is positioned well should that happen.

why do litecoin supporters claim this?  I think more people know what dogecoin is than litecoin. 

People also know that dogecoin was created as a joke. Who is supposed to take it seriously after that being a fact? lol

nice, but that doesn't answer the question.

litecoin is positioned poorly outside of the incestuous cryptocurrency community.  the number one use of litecoin is to proxy mine bitcoin by trading rapidly-depreciating ltc for btc with scrypt asics, and past this narrow function, i don't see litecoin being used anywhere else.  litecoin is not positioned well at all in terms of general adoption by the unwashed masses.  

I think this lack of public awareness is part of the reason for the current state of litecoin.  I still own litecoin, but i'm starting to understand more reasons not to own litecoin.

No one can predict the future. If you believe in the technology and the protocol then pick your side of the fence.

I'm not here to convince anyone to buy or sell litecoin.

But I will speak up when someone claims the LTC will die. And then doesn't define what "dying" really means.

[kalus]

No one can predict the future. If you believe in the technology and the protocol then pick your side of the fence.

I'm not here to convince anyone to buy or sell litecoin.

But I will speak up when someone claims the LTC will die. And then doesn't define what "dying" really means.

I understand, but i'd just like to lose the spin (i.e. "dying") and seriously discuss the prospects of litecoin.

do you think the asics will secure or continue to devalue ltc?  

we observed a decoupling of BTC and LTC prices a couple months ago when asics started hitting big.  is this just more hashrate, or is this a continuing trend?  LTC doesn't seem to be picking up or holding with BTC anymore.

and if a joke currency could strip half it's hashrate a few months back, wouldn't asic miners be as equally fickle as the gpu miners before and jump on the next big thing?

[El Dude]

No one can predict the future. If you believe in the technology and the protocol then pick your side of the fence.

I'm not here to convince anyone to buy or sell litecoin.

But I will speak up when someone claims the LTC will die. And then doesn't define what "dying" really means.

I understand, but i'd just like to lose the spin (i.e. "dying") and seriously discuss the prospects of litecoin.

do you think the asics will secure or continue to devalue ltc? and if a joke currency could strip half it's hashrate a few months back, wouldn't asic miners be as equally fickle as the gpu miners before?

people just jumped on the dogecoin to ride the pump and convert back to LTC , go look at the hashrate now

[smoothie]

Interesting read. Litecoin is actually the coin I first read about that got me interested in cryptos back in Jan (read some article somewhere on it). Before then, I had no idea that alt coins even existed and a very rudimentary knowledge of bitcoin. I thought I'd play around with this crypto stuff and maybe I could get a free litecoin out of it, just for fun.

I never bothered really going past that 1 ltc (and have since sold it) and now have a small chunk of btc instead. The problem I saw, and still see, is a lack of innovation and the fact that there really is no reason for the value of ltc to rise a whole lot anymore.

I think the OP touched on one really important fact, multi coin processors for purchases. They already exist, and I think they will become the standard if cryptos make any headway into being used as a currency by the general public at all. And that means there will be no difference between ltc, doge, nxt, or whatevercoin, when ConsumerX decides to use crypto to buy something.

The only coins then that could stand out a bit are those that have unique features (nxt flavors, ethereum, maidsafe, anon coins, etc). And I'm not saying any of them will even take the #2 spot, but that #2-#6 spot may end up being somewhat bunched up close to one another.

I agree, Litecoin has a severe lack of innovation and that will be it's undoing. It's not really accepted at much stores and it doesnt have widespread adoptance. Only a matter of time when Litecoin gets taken over.

I like how the bolded statement is supposed to justify why litecoin will "die" or "fail" or whatever undefined word you want to use to describe what litecoin will be in the future.

(combine the three points below and it is the first with all of those combined)

Litecoin is one of the first altcoin to have a different mining algorithm so that it can't be merge mined and BTC asics would not destroy it.

Litecoin is one of first altcoin not to have a premine + have a known launch date ahead of time.

Litecoin is THE first altcoin to have survived all of the smear campaigns for years now about how "uninnovative" it is.

Even huge bitcoin supporters (Luke-jr etc) were bashing Litecoin in 2011 and 2012 and claimed "It will die and it is worthless". Looks like the free market says differently.

Litecoin with those things I listed above were enough "innovation" to make litecoin worth buying and supporting.

Innovation is not the only reason something will do well. Just look at car manufacturers. Ford came up with the idea yet Toyota, Honda, GMC, etc all are able to be successful with no real "innovation" they just added their own branding and changed a few things.

Claiming innovation is the ONLY way that a crypto coin can be successful is obviously bullshit as Litecoin has proven that statement/thought wrong.

THIS IS NO DIFFERENT  

[smoothie]

No one can predict the future. If you believe in the technology and the protocol then pick your side of the fence.

I'm not here to convince anyone to buy or sell litecoin.

But I will speak up when someone claims the LTC will die. And then doesn't define what "dying" really means.

I understand, but i'd just like to lose the spin (i.e. "dying") and seriously discuss the prospects of litecoin.

do you think the asics will secure or continue to devalue ltc?  

we observed a decoupling of BTC and LTC prices a couple months ago when asics started hitting big.  is this just more hashrate, or is this a continuing trend?  LTC doesn't seem to be picking up or holding with BTC anymore.

and if a joke currency could strip half it's hashrate a few months back, wouldn't asic miners be as equally fickle as the gpu miners before and jump on the next big thing?

I think you will get your 100% concrete answer to your question in the next few months.

Let the free-market convince you via price, security, merchant acceptance...let us see.

[smoothie]

what I find odd is you already publicly declared you no longer support litecoin yet you still want to talk about it as if it matters.

 

Smoothie!!!

Whats up?

Litecoin lives....

  whats up

[smoothie]

I see value in some other alternative coins, and I even think some of them have a large chance to overtake Litecoin as people slowly realize that Litecoin is just one big marketing campaign. If your investment strategy is to look at coinmarketcap and choose the coins with the biggest market cap, then I don't feel like that is a smart investment. According to you, this is how "smart money" operates. However, I think the "even smarter money" does extensive research on all coins that are available and the ones in development, and then comes to a proper decision as to what they will put their money in. After doing this myself I have come to the conclusion that "smart money" isn't actually so smart afterall.

why should people listen to you who have been unsuccessful in your investments?

Are you part of the smart money crowd or are you not and just posturing to make people who are in the "smart money" crowd feel inferior with no basis for your claims but just "I think it is" and "I have come to the conclusion..."??

You can't preach on the topic of smart money if you yourself have not lived it and actually done it yourself.

It's like you preaching about marriage when you are divorced in your own personal life. It doesn't work as you are now disqualified as someone to speak on it and have any actual impact on the topic if your own track record proves to be the on the opposite spectrum of what you are discussing.

[CoinHoarder]

Giant wall of text.

What would be the defining point of Litecoin being dead?

You can't slowly die yet never die.

Ah Smoothie... I've been waiting for you.

I'm not surprised that you would try to focus on technicalities of the English language, and not on the arguments I have made against Litecoin. I know you are one to cherry pick the statements that support your cause and ignore the ones that don't, so I won't judge you for this. Perhaps dying is the wrong word, and "irrelevancy" is more appropriate.

thanks for this well reasoned post.  

do you feel the added security of the litecoin blockchain with new asics on the way will prolong the life of litecoin, or accelerate its demise?

It's hard to say. I feel like in the long run it will be a bad thing, but the effects of the centralization of Bitcoin/Litecoin mining won't be felt for some time. As corporations, old money, and old money FIAT take over mining, the affects will start to show. At that point they are no longer decentralized currencies, it is moving that way already.

I think Litecoin will remain number 2 through at least the end of the year and possibly next year too. However, things are moving so quickly that it is completely possible that its demise could happen sooner rather than later. I think Bitcoin will be much harder to topple than Litecoin.

what I find odd is you already publicly declared you no longer support litecoin yet you still want to talk about it as if it matters.

 

You are actually the reason I started this thread. You talked very rudely about me on the Litecoin forums about my decision to not support Litecoin anymore, so I thought I would explain myself to everyone the reasons for my decision. Also, the Litecoin faithful are going around spewing their usual marketing strategies based on half truths, so I thought I would let it be known that not everyone feels that way. I am different from the other anti-Litecoin trolls in that I was a dedicated supporter of Litecoin for a very long time, and I have recently changed my mind. I thought people would be interested as to why, and it seems they are as this thread is pretty long for being up less than a day.

So why is it the few nxt fanbois constantly trolling the forum are the ones so concerned about litecoin's future  

First of all, I am not a Nxt fan boi. I haven't decided which crypto will be the next one I support apart from Bitcoin, but I am leaning towards Counterparty, Mastercoin, Bitshares AGS, Swarm, Ethereum, or Maidsafe. Possibly Nxt too, although they have some trolls (which coin doesn't), they are doing some interesting and innovative things... the initial distribution is kind of a put off to me though. However, to be fair to them... everyone had a chance to invest and didn't.. that is not their fault.

Secondly, I think the Litecoiners are getting scared. They are getting more organized and are doing more projects recently than ever before. I think most of them can see the writing on the wall and are trying to "right the ship" so to speak. Not only have the Litecoin "haters" been more vocal as of late (which is totally understandable due to the points I've outlined ITT), but the Litecoin supporters are also being more vocal because their throne is being challenged. They are even sending people over here from their forums to try and prove me wrong: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=20631.0

You think.

So you are just speculating.

Got it.

I'm a litecoin supporter and no I am not scared nor have I gotten the notion that the community for LTC is scared as well.

Anyone can go back into CH's post history on this forum and the Litecointalk.org forum and see how much Coinhoarder is butthurt. For what real reason I can't say for sure but what I do know is he tried to get the LTC devs to make certain changes to the LTC protocol and it fell upon deaf ears so he took his ball and went home crying.

Now he is here still talking about LTC even though he claims it will die. And instead of just seeing if his prediction is true and let it be he is still talking about LTC which is keeping it alive.

As long as people are talking about LTC or trading it or mining it...it isn't dead in my view.

Some of my opinion is based on speculation, but a lot of it is based off of facts. The truth of the matter is no one knows what will happen in the future, but this is how I think it will play out. As to me being butthurt, grow up Smoothie. I am not crying... I am laughing at how ignorant all of you are and pointing out how hypocritical the arguments for Litecoin being the #2 crypto currency are. I am certain I will have the last laugh. If you want to refute some of the points I have made in this thread then go ahead and I will debate them with you, but it seems all you have are personal insults.

There you are again nitpicking on the words of "death" and "dying", use "irrelevant" instead if it makes you feel any better.

I see value in some other alternative coins, and I even think some of them have a large chance to overtake Litecoin as people slowly realize that Litecoin is just one big marketing campaign. If your investment strategy is to look at coinmarketcap and choose the coins with the biggest market cap, then I don't feel like that is a smart investment. According to you, this is how "smart money" operates. However, I think the "even smarter money" does extensive research on all coins that are available and the ones in development, and then comes to a proper decision as to what they will put their money in. After doing this myself I have come to the conclusion that "smart money" isn't actually so smart afterall.

why should people listen to you who have been unsuccessful in your investments?

Are you part of the smart money crowd or are you not and just posturing to make people who are in the "smart money" crowd feel inferior with no basis for your claims but just "I think it is" and "I have come to the conclusion..."??

You can't preach on the topic of smart money if you yourself have not lived it and actually done it yourself.

It's like you preaching about marriage when you are divorced in your own personal life. It doesn't work as you are now disqualified as someone to speak on it and have any actual impact on the topic if your own track record proves to be the on the opposite spectrum of what you are discussing.

I have made some poor business and life decisions, but part of those poor decisions are not my ability to pick crypto currencies that are likely to blow up in value. I was right about Bitcoin and I was right about Litecoin, some of my friends and family have made bank because of me suggesting them to invest into them. However, the crypto currency landscape is changing quickly and I can no longer say Litecoin is a sure bet for obvious reasons. I have already stated most all of them, again, if you would like to debate them then lets go at it, however if all you can do is insult me then I'm just going to put you back on ignore like you were before I saw 8 ignored posts by Smoothie in this thread. This is why I have you ignored, all you can do is hurl insults at me and you can't really back up your reasoning for supporting Litecoin.

[mymenace]

lets understand marketing

infrastructure is the key for investors and businesses to adopt a coin

I run a business and as yet my customers do not understand crypto

If i was to offer them crypto i would select a coin that has a strong infrastructure and investors


btc and ltc both have enterprises supporting this, why is there asic machines on sale if the market was not there, why is there atm's being built if the markets not there

please provide me with another coin that has the infrastructure to support my customers cash exchange and a network that is very hard to fall down like other altcoins have after a few months

this

[smoothie]

Giant wall of text.

What would be the defining point of Litecoin being dead?

You can't slowly die yet never die.

Ah Smoothie... I've been waiting for you.

I'm not surprised that you would try to focus on technicalities of the English language, and not on the arguments I have made against Litecoin. I know you are one to cherry pick the statements that support your cause and ignore the ones that don't, so I won't judge you for this. Perhaps dying is the wrong word, and "irrelevancy" is more appropriate.

thanks for this well reasoned post.  

do you feel the added security of the litecoin blockchain with new asics on the way will prolong the life of litecoin, or accelerate its demise?

It's hard to say. I feel like in the long run it will be a bad thing, but the effects of the centralization of Bitcoin/Litecoin mining won't be felt for some time. As corporations, old money, and old money FIAT take over mining, the affects will start to show. At that point they are no longer decentralized currencies, it is moving that way already.

I think Litecoin will remain number 2 through at least the end of the year and possibly next year too. However, things are moving so quickly that it is completely possible that its demise could happen sooner rather than later. I think Bitcoin will be much harder to topple than Litecoin.

what I find odd is you already publicly declared you no longer support litecoin yet you still want to talk about it as if it matters.

 

You are actually the reason I started this thread. You talked very rudely about me on the Litecoin forums about my decision to not support Litecoin anymore, so I thought I would explain myself to everyone the reasons for my decision. Also, the Litecoin faithful are going around spewing their usual marketing strategies based on half truths, so I thought I would let it be known that not everyone feels that way. I am different from the other anti-Litecoin trolls in that I was a dedicated supporter of Litecoin for a very long time, and I have recently changed my mind. I thought people would be interested as to why, and it seems they are as this thread is pretty long for being up less than a day.

So why is it the few nxt fanbois constantly trolling the forum are the ones so concerned about litecoin's future  

First of all, I am not a Nxt fan boi. I haven't decided which crypto will be the next one I support apart from Bitcoin, but I am leaning towards Counterparty, Mastercoin, Bitshares AGS, Swarm, Ethereum, or Maidsafe. Possibly Nxt too, although they have some trolls (which coin doesn't), they are doing some interesting and innovative things... the initial distribution is kind of a put off to me though. However, to be fair to them... everyone had a chance to invest and didn't.. that is not their fault.

Secondly, I think the Litecoiners are getting scared. They are getting more organized and are doing more projects recently than ever before. I think most of them can see the writing on the wall and are trying to "right the ship" so to speak. Not only have the Litecoin "haters" been more vocal as of late (which is totally understandable due to the points I've outlined ITT), but the Litecoin supporters are also being more vocal because their throne is being challenged. They are even sending people over here from their forums to try and prove me wrong: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=20631.0

You think.

So you are just speculating.

Got it.

I'm a litecoin supporter and no I am not scared nor have I gotten the notion that the community for LTC is scared as well.

Anyone can go back into CH's post history on this forum and the Litecointalk.org forum and see how much Coinhoarder is butthurt. For what real reason I can't say for sure but what I do know is he tried to get the LTC devs to make certain changes to the LTC protocol and it fell upon deaf ears so he took his ball and went home crying.

Now he is here still talking about LTC even though he claims it will die. And instead of just seeing if his prediction is true and let it be he is still talking about LTC which is keeping it alive.

As long as people are talking about LTC or trading it or mining it...it isn't dead in my view.

Some of my opinion is based on speculation, but a lot of it is based off of facts. The truth of the matter is no one knows what will happen in the future, but this is how I think it will play out. As to me being butthurt, grow up Smoothie. I am not crying... I am laughing at how ignorant all of you are and pointing out how hypocritical the arguments for Litecoin being the #2 crypto currency are. I am certain I will have the last laugh. If you want to refute some of the points I have made in this thread then go ahead and I will debate them with you, but it seems all you have is personal insults.

There you are again nitpicking on the words of "death" and "dying", use "irrelevant" instead if it makes you feel any better.

I see value in some other alternative coins, and I even think some of them have a large chance to overtake Litecoin as people slowly realize that Litecoin is just one big marketing campaign. If your investment strategy is to look at coinmarketcap and choose the coins with the biggest market cap, then I don't feel like that is a smart investment. According to you, this is how "smart money" operates. However, I think the "even smarter money" does extensive research on all coins that are available and the ones in development, and then comes to a proper decision as to what they will put their money in. After doing this myself I have come to the conclusion that "smart money" isn't actually so smart afterall.

why should people listen to you who have been unsuccessful in your investments?

Are you part of the smart money crowd or are you not and just posturing to make people who are in the "smart money" crowd feel inferior with no basis for your claims but just "I think it is" and "I have come to the conclusion..."??

You can't preach on the topic of smart money if you yourself have not lived it and actually done it yourself.

It's like you preaching about marriage when you are divorced in your own personal life. It doesn't work as you are now disqualified as someone to speak on it and have any actual impact on the topic if your own track record proves to be the on the opposite spectrum of what you are discussing.

I have made some poor business and life decisions, but part of those poor decisions are not my ability to pick crypto currencies that are likely to blow up in value. I was right about Bitcoin and I was right about Litecoin, some of my friends and family have made bank because of me suggesting them to invest into them. However, the crypto currency landscape is changing quickly and I can no longer say Litecoin is a sure bet for obvious reasons. I have already stated most all of them, again, if you would like to debate them then lets go at it, however if all you can do is insult me then I'm just going to put you back on ignore like you were before I saw 8 ignored posts by Smoothie in this thread. This is why I have you ignored, all you can do is hurl insults at me and you can't really back up your reasoning for supporting Litecoin.

Ahh lol I now see that you retracted your statement that I was put on ignore.

Funny to know you can't even stand to stick to your word even on that one. lolz

"irrelevancy"....nice back pedal there.  

It never ceases to amaze me how much crying you do. You remind me of Goat who does the exact same thing when he gets called out on his BS.

You making comments about smart money and not actually being in the smart money group says you are full of it. The fact that you went silent for over a month while your mining hardware customers/investors were waiting for you to respond to them is very telling of your character. They lost out on mining opportunity and all you can really say is "sorry guys" and send them a few extra cables to attempt to make it "right".

Track record is a good indicator of someone's bullshit levels when they talk. For you I still call it how I see it. You are one to over-promise and under deliver, make statements that you are disqualified in making as you haven't lived it yourself, and then at the first sign of opposition you end up running away as you did with Litecoin.

If you can't handle what I have to say I suggest you put me on ignore again as I will continue to be honest in how I see things. If that is too much for you, you should run along with your ignoring.

BTW your thread is doing absolutely nothing but entertaining myself as well as others as to the inconsistencies you keep making in your statements and actions. Your thread is actually keeping LTC revelant and alive as we are still discussing it.

Nice job there BTW. 

[smoothie]

lol there you have it people...CH made this thread because of me and how he did not like how I spoke about him leaving the LTC community which is something he made public for everyone to read.

Because I had an opinion doesn't mean it was rude. It was only rude in your opinion, not in actual facts.

Anyone is welcome to go over and read what CH wrote before he "left" then came back. lol

CH claims Litecoin is dying a slow death (meaning it will die at some point) yet is still talking about LTC which keeps it alive. Genius. 

[CoinHoarder]

Yeah Smoothie, I'm just going to let you unload on me and not defend myself...

When I saw 8 ignored posts from you I had a feeling you were talking shit about me and I was right.

I have the right to defend myself.. anyways as you say I'm not a man of my word, so did you really expect me to keep you on ignore like I had said I would?

Again, feel free to debate the arguments I made against Litecoin, otherwise you are dead to me.

[CoinHoarder]

lol there you have it people...CH made this thread because of me and how he did not like how I spoke about him leaving the LTC community which is something he made public for everyone to read.

Because I had an opinion doesn't mean it was rude. It was only rude in your opinion, not in actual facts.

Anyone is welcome to go over and read what CH wrote before he "left" then came back. lol

CH claims Litecoin is dying a slow death (meaning it will die at some point) yet is still talking about LTC which keeps it alive. Genius.  

thanks for this well reasoned post.  

do you feel the added security of the litecoin blockchain with new asics on the way will prolong the life of litecoin, or accelerate its demise?

It's hard to say. I feel like in the long run it will be a bad thing, but the effects of the centralization of Bitcoin/Litecoin mining won't be felt for some time. As corporations, old money, and old money FIAT take over mining, the affects will start to show. At that point they are no longer decentralized currencies, it is moving that way already.

I think Litecoin will remain number 2 through at least the end of the year and possibly next year too. However, things are moving so quickly that it is completely possible that its demise could happen sooner rather than later. I think Bitcoin will be much harder to topple than Litecoin.

If I think Litecoin will remain number 2 throughout the rest of this year and possibly next year, how is talking about it right now prolonging its life? If anything I am exposing the bullshit that you guys keep spreading about Litecoin.

Again, lets debate the arguments for/against Litecoin Smoothie, I'm ready for you. I've just been warming up the first 6 pages of this thread.

[smoothie]

Yeah Smoothie, I'm just going to let you unload on me and not defend myself...

When I saw 8 ignored posts from you I had a feeling you were talking shit about me and I was right.

I have the right to defend myself.. anyways as you say I'm not a man of my word, so did you really expect me to keep you on ignore like I had said I would?

Again, feel free to debate the arguments I made against Litecoin, otherwise you are dead to me.

lol it will be refreshing to have you actually stick to something you say you are going to do.

[smoothie]

lol there you have it people...CH made this thread because of me and how he did not like how I spoke about him leaving the LTC community which is something he made public for everyone to read.

Because I had an opinion doesn't mean it was rude. It was only rude in your opinion, not in actual facts.

Anyone is welcome to go over and read what CH wrote before he "left" then came back. lol

CH claims Litecoin is dying a slow death (meaning it will die at some point) yet is still talking about LTC which keeps it alive. Genius.  

thanks for this well reasoned post.  

do you feel the added security of the litecoin blockchain with new asics on the way will prolong the life of litecoin, or accelerate its demise?

It's hard to say. I feel like in the long run it will be a bad thing, but the effects of the centralization of Bitcoin/Litecoin mining won't be felt for some time. As corporations, old money, and old money FIAT take over mining, the affects will start to show. At that point they are no longer decentralized currencies, it is moving that way already.

I think Litecoin will remain number 2 through at least the end of the year and possibly next year too. However, things are moving so quickly that it is completely possible that its demise could happen sooner rather than later. I think Bitcoin will be much harder to topple than Litecoin.

If I think Litecoin will remain number 2 throughout the rest of this year and possibly next year, how is talking about it right now prolonging its life? If anything I am exposing the bullshit that you guys keep spreading about Litecoin.

Again, lets debate the arguments for/against Litecoin Smoothie, I'm ready for you. I've just been warming up the first 6 pages of this thread.

Looks like your word means nothing as you still have me not ignored lol.  

What bullshit are you talking about?

Are you claiming the following?

"I think Litecoin will remain number 2 throughout the rest of this year and possibly next year"

If so, well doesn't sound like you are too sure on your prediction as it is rather general and doesn't exactly say it will lose its #2 spot.

Perhaps you can be more clear on your stance as opposed to making vague comments and then being able to retract and side step when proven wrong? Thanks

[kalus]

did g1 scrypt asics arrive in higher numbers than sha-256 asics did?  what happened to btc prices after the first asics were released?

and if something were to knock down litecoin, there would need to be a reason to pull asics from ltc blockchain.  what would replace litecoin in a year?

[CoinHoarder]

If I think Litecoin will remain number 2 throughout the rest of this year and possibly next year, how is talking about it right now prolonging its life? If anything I am exposing the bullshit that you guys keep spreading about Litecoin.

Again, lets debate the arguments for/against Litecoin Smoothie, I'm ready for you. I've just been warming up the first 6 pages of this thread.

Looks like your word means nothing as you still have me not ignored lol.  

What bullshit are you talking about?

Are you claiming the following?

"I think Litecoin will remain number 2 throughout the rest of this year and possibly next year"

If so, well doesn't sound like you are too sure on your prediction as it is rather general and doesn't exactly say it will lose its #2 spot.

Perhaps you can be more clear on your stance as opposed to making vague comments and then being able to retract and side step when proven wrong? Thanks

Vague comments? I have been the most thorough person in this thread when it comes to explaining what I believe and why I believe it.

I am as sure of my prediction as you are that Litecoin will remain #2. No one can tell the future, and I am not claiming to be a fortune teller. I am stating my opinions that are based on facts and events that have happened over the past couple years.

I'm talking about the bullshit arguments that Litecoiners use to support the reason for its value, most of them are ridiculous.

I don't know how I can be any more clear. I think Litecoin will be replaced as the #2 crypto currency in the next 1 to 2 years, possibly sooner. That is not vague at all, what did you want.. an exact date and time this will happen?  

[Saigonsmokes]

Ok - so read through the Litecoin Talk thread...It seems to me that Coinhoarder donated $1000 worth of LTC - his suggestions for changes to Litecoin were 'ignored' - this seems to have upset him. Unfortunately donations to the developers does not give a right to dictate Litecoins future, very much like what Goat did when he setup the Litecoin Foundation with an agenda to sell physical Litecoins. Donations should show support for Litecoin, not follow up with getting upset when the developers didn't do what you wanted.  

Its a shame you turned your back on Litecoin, but your posting tone is pretty arrogant - you supposedly left Litecoin in April but seem upset enough months later to continue posting about it. Your OP had some valid points but your tone lately shows someone who is upset, pissed off and hurt they were not listened too.

OP - What crypto community did you join after your left LTC? Genuinely curious..

[sile16]

I've thought that the transaction volume would eventually get so high that the Bitcoin block chain is stressed to the point people are paying higher than the minimum fee to get transactions processed and that pressure would be the motivation to move latterly into other coins such as litecoin.

[CoinHoarder]

Ok - so read through the Litecoin Talk thread...It seems to me that Coinhoarder donated $1000 worth of LTC - his suggestions for changes to Litecoin were 'ignored' - this seems to have upset him. Unfortunately donations to the developers does not give a right to dictate Litecoins future, very much like what Goat did when he setup the Litecoin Foundation with an agenda to sell physical Litecoins. Donations should show support for Litecoin, not follow up with getting upset when the developers didn't do what you wanted.  

Its a shame you turned your back on Litecoin, but your posting tone is pretty arrogant - you supposedly left Litecoin in April but seem upset enough months later to continue posting about it. Your OP had some valid points but your tone lately shows someone who is upset, pissed off and hurt they were not listened too.

OP - What crypto community did you join after your left LTC? Genuinely curious..

As I have explained over at the Litecoin forums in a separate thread where I addressed what Smoothie had to say about me (I will quote it after this post so you can hear my side of the story.) I would of left Litecoin whether or not I made the donation. All of my donations to the Litecoin development team have been no strings attached. This is something I cared very deeply about and I thought it was necessary that Litecoin make some changes to stay relevant. Smoothie is the one that accused me of trying to bribe the developers to get my way, which couldn't be further from the truth. This is just another case of Smoothie speaking of things he knows nothing about.

Smoothie has been talking crap about me on Litecointalk and Bitcointalk forums, so this is why I feel the need to defend myself. If someone started attacking you would you just sit there and take the blows? Sorry, but I'm not Jesus.

I haven't chosen which coin I'm going to support next, but I can tell you the projects that I find are interesting to me. In no certain order... Counterparty, Mastercoin, Bitshares, Bitshares AGS, Swarm, Ethereum, Nxt, Maidsafe, Monero, and Zerocash. I am still deciding, but there's no reason why I couldn't support a few or all of these projects.. they are all much more interesting to me than Litecoin ever was. I am sure I'm forgetting a few too.. there are so many awesome new coins coming out.

[CoinHoarder]

This is my side of the story saigon, here is the unedited post (although I see a couple things I'd like to change/elaborate on.. but whatever, here it is:)

I can see how you could get that from what I said, however it isn't completely true. Mage asked me why I was so hostile, so I explained the reason. I have been meaning to explain myself and my reasons for leaving after I read what Smoothie said about me in this thread: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=18586.15

Is it wrong to defend myself when someone is practically talking about me behind my back? I know these are public forums, but that was practically what he was doing.  It was done in Smoothie's usual style- he likes to act like he really cares about the subject, then he inserts thinly veiled insults throughout his posts. He follows them up with sayings like "but I wish him the best" and "good luck to him" etc, to hide his true intentions for the posts. Anytime Smoothie has a chance to say something bad about me he will, as he has done for about a year now since coincidentally I started competing with him making physical Litecoins.

I will give you a few examples of what he said:

"I agree with the overall tone of this post above but I do have to say that the way Coinhoarder is choosing to leave is somewhat silly. It is his choice and I respect that but I'm the type of thick skinned individual that doesn't run away at the first sign of opposition."

I am supposedly a thin skinned individual that runs away at the first sign of opposition. Who knows, that may be true, I am still learning things about myself everyday. However, it is a very rude thing to say and Smoothie doesn't know all of the details of why I decided to leave. Who is he to say such a thing?

"Coinhoarder says "it is a lost cause trying to get these guys to embrace innovation" yet I don't see him writing code and getting development on his end done whether or not he is a software engineer or not."

The thinly veiled insult: Since I don't write code I was not trying to contribute to Litecoin's development. That couldn't be further from the truth. In Smoothie's words, pretty much everyone on the forums that is not writing code is not helping out with Litecoin. Such a ridiculous statement.

"So back to my original point, Coinhoarder and anyone else who feels they need to leave is welcome to, but it is hard not to notice how easily he gave up and took his ball and went home."

Again, I run away at the first sign of opposition. Smoothie again doesn't know all of the details of why, what, when, or how. He is not my friend and I do not talk to him and tell him these things. The truth of the matter is that I am flat broke, I have no cryptocoin savings. Is that really taking your ball and going home? I didn't have a damn ball to begin with. It didn't make sense to me that I fight and claw to make some changes to Litecoin when I don't even own a single one. Even though I didn't own any coins, I still put in a good effort and I was largely ignored. Is that really my fault? And who can blame me? I don't see you guys over on the Feathercoin forums trying to help them out. Why? Because you probably don't own any Feathercoins. (just a random example, replace FTC with whatever coin you'd like.

Bossman, you yourself said "come on now , your going to leave this community because the devs don't see eye to eye on your vision of a alt coin built-on top of Litecoin? Nothing is stopping you forming a team and doing this yourself."

I again point to the fact that I don't own any Litecoins and am broke. Why should I work my ass off and form a team to make it happen just so you guys can get rich? There would be absolutely nothing in it for me. Although I like to devote my free time to causes I support, making you guys rich is sadly not one of them.

Back to Smoothie... "Just because he raised a few thousand dollars does not mean he should have the ability to dictate the development of Litecoin."

Smoothie then accuses me of trying to bribe the Litecoin developers to get my way, which couldn't be further from the truth. All of my donations to the developers have been no strings attached, I just happened to be trying to gather support for some of my ideas and I suggested they come take a look at my thread when I made the donation. They never even acknowledged the existence of the thread until after I had left. I know they are likely busy, but its hard to believe that the creator of Litecoin never reads the Genereal Discussion subforum on the Litecoin forums every once and a while (the thread was on the first page for about a month). Well.. I'm getting sidetracked now...

"I have to disagree with your statement of "selling him short". Just because he had a little opposition, to me, doesn't justify taking your ball and running home. But then again I am speaking from how I would have reacted to the same situation given I am quite thick-skinned."

Again Smoothie talking about things that he doesn't know the full story and making inferences about me and how he is so much more of a man than I am.

"There are many other things I disagree with that he has done like saying one thing and not following through on it. I'm a big advocate of saying something that I intend on following through with and not just saying it to say it."

Smoothie is obviously not human, as the doesn't make mistakes. Nothing ever went wrong once in his life that caused him to not be able to do what he said he will do. Not even once... again, he is so much more of a man than I am.. I wish one day I can be like him.

"The tone that CH left on in my view was a somewhat arrogant tone as if "I don't need you guys.". Prior to his coin business his attitude was not that, but now it appears to be so."

My tone has never changed from before the coin business to after. I am honest, and I will say just about anything that comes to my mind. I do not hold anything back, as you should probably be able to tell by now. If you knew me or read my posts before the coin business, you will know what I'm talking about.

As I said, I've watched CH on the forums and am speaking from following his post history.

Smoothie apparently watches me and studies, and he seems to know me better than I know myself. I wouldn't be surprised if he has pictures of me up on his wall with all my posts printed out in chronological order to determine my tendencies.

-------

You know Bossman, I was actually going to let all of this slide and not respond to any of it. I am a pretty laid back guy, but now that Smoothie is launching a smear campaign against me I feel the need to explain myself and my reasoning, and prove that I did have real substantial reasons for not supporting Litecoin anymore. The smear campaign Smoothie has set out against me has pushed me to write all of this. Otherwise, I would leave you all alone. I had no intentions on posting in these forums after I left. If you read my good bye post, it sounded like I would not be coming back- because I was not planning to. However, Smoothie has started this war with me and this is only the first battle. Smoothie is a very mean spirited individual that will stick a knife in your back and twist it at you lowest moment. As I have stated I am broke, just moved in with family, depressed, etc... Smoothie knew all of this, yet he still pressed on to try and ruin me. I am certain he has no heart and is a horrible human being.

That is all I have to say for now.

[smoothie]

I can no longer recommend it as a good investment at this point in time.

Are you a financial advisor?

I will give them (well… Warren) a bit of credit for improving some security issues on both Litecoin and Bitcoin, but they do not see the glaring issue in that the end users don’t actually ever see these improvements.

Since when does innovation = success and only in that case? How about I name drop on you: Toyota, Honda, Kia, etc. They all COPIED Ford yet they haven't changed much about the design of a car in the innovative sense, yet they have been successful.

innovation =/= success
innovation =/= market acceptance
innovation =/= network effect

Crypto currency users/investors want new and improved features

Thanks we can all speak for ourselves. The free market will speak for itself as well and prove your statement true or not. But it isn't for you to claim it as true.

By staying three steps behind Bitcoin in the crypto currency wars, they are positioning themselves to be obsolete if Bitcoin is ever supplanted by a new crypto currency that is much better.

Looks like Litecoin did just well when Bitcoin forked the block chain in March of 2013 due to the fact that it was 1 or 2 releases/versions behind Bitcoin.

I made a hard push to get Litecoiners behind the idea of implementing new decentralized features, such as asset exchanges and decentralized applications, and I was completely ignored by the developers and dismissed by most of the Litecoin faithful.

So you were depending/expecting others to do it? Why don't you take it upon yourself to hire people to do what you want to get implemented then have it released out into the wild so people can choose to adopt or not? That seems like a better approach than yours described above as a "hard push" which equates to posting on a forum. lol

This is how the “best development team” operates? Completely ignoring their user base and someone that has gone out of his way to support Litecoin time and time again?

You sound very judgmental here. Not everyone can always respond to everyone and just because you didn't get an answer or the answer you wanted isn't reason enough to give up and whine. I've donated to the litecoin development team 1000 LTC and haven't made as much ruckus about them ignoring people as you have. Time and time again?  You make like you donated enough funds to get the changes you wanted done done. Yet you should just get it done yourself if you are that passionate about it instead of complaining so-in-so is not doing what I asked or isn't responding to my request for these changes.

This is not the only case where the developers have done as they pleased, many voiced concerns about ASICs coming online and ruining the decentralized nature of the network, making people pay for hardware that will never ROI and sadly has little to no resale value, and suscept the Litecoin mining community to pre-ordering hardware they may never even see (or at least they likely will never see on time before the difficulty skyrockets like what happened with Bitcoin.)

1. No one makes people pay for hardware. They can make their own choice.

2. ASICs can't be stopped. Changing the mining algorithm would mean a hard fork which likely will burn many users who are not paying attention to the update. Also it would only delay the inevitable that ASICs would be created to do the calculations for the new mining algorithm.

3. Complaining that mining is a fool's game sounds like your version of not looking at the risks of mining before investing and now hind-sight is getting the best of you.

Litecoin is not a back up to Bitcoin. If a huge flaw is found in Bitcoin and someone attacks it, Litecoin is likely to share that flaw.

And you think newer code bases for other coins which have not been as extensively tested for flaws would be a better choice? lol

Crypto currencies will certainly take a hit if Bitcoin dies, however it will not be the end of this movement I am certain of that.

For once I agree with you. The genie is out of the bottle.

I never felt welcomed, and was often chastized for my opinions. Although Coblee was very nice when I met him at the Bitcoin 2013 conference, he literally ignored me after that.

Well boo hoo.

Coblee was nowhere to be seen in the Litecoin community. Once the price started to rise he suddenly showed up and started making an effort. I have no problem with that, but I couldn’t help but notice the coincidence.

No one is required to be at a certain place at a certain time. Some of us have lives and to make a judgement purely on him is childish.

For instance, Coblee seemed genuinely excited and even encouraged me to make my physical Litecoins at the Bitcoin conference in 2013, even stating that he wanted one! He completely ignored me after this, only replying to one of my controversial posts when the ASIC debate was at its peak. I have seen him supporting Smoothie and his ventures, and even the new “Coinographic” guy, but he never once supported me publicly- only privately in conversation and then ignored forever.

So because in your view Charles didn't "support" your physical coin efforts in the way that you had expected you are going to complain about it? Charles wasn't always available to me when I sought him out. But you don't hear me crying about it as I am aware he is a family man and has much more important responsibilities than "making Coinhoarder feel like he is supported in his physical litecoin endeavor". lol

I have much more respect for Coinographic because so far he has not given me a reason to not like him. He so far has kept his word and looks like he has his sh*t together. There are some things he has yet to deliver on but time will tell on that. He hasn't used me or my coins as a basis to lift the development of his coins up (in words) as you have done in the past.

Faster block times are no longer a good selling point, as there are other coins with faster block times that don’t have a huge problem with stales etcetera. Anywhere in between a minute and two and a half minute block time does not suffer from the things that Litecoin says will happen if they go any faster, at least not to the point where it is a huge problem. Everyone knows by now that Litecoin confirmations are less secure than Bitcoin confirmations.

I personally believe there is a market for faster transaction confirmations. Bigger purchases can stomach longer confirmations like in Bitcoin. But if you are going to pay for coffee who will wait for 10-60 minutes for a bitcoin confirmation? There has to be something to fill that market. Whether it is LTC or not is  irrelevant. The faster block times in my view is a good positioning mechanism in the crypto space at least for litecoin it is.

It is going to take something truly innovative to supplant Bitcoin, and by coincidence Litecoin as well since they are content blindly following Bitcoin.

Last I checked Litecoin was never meant to replace Bitcoin.

[smoothie]

If I think Litecoin will remain number 2 throughout the rest of this year and possibly next year, how is talking about it right now prolonging its life? If anything I am exposing the bullshit that you guys keep spreading about Litecoin.

Again, lets debate the arguments for/against Litecoin Smoothie, I'm ready for you. I've just been warming up the first 6 pages of this thread.

Looks like your word means nothing as you still have me not ignored lol.  

What bullshit are you talking about?

Are you claiming the following?

"I think Litecoin will remain number 2 throughout the rest of this year and possibly next year"

If so, well doesn't sound like you are too sure on your prediction as it is rather general and doesn't exactly say it will lose its #2 spot.

Perhaps you can be more clear on your stance as opposed to making vague comments and then being able to retract and side step when proven wrong? Thanks

Vague comments? I have been the most thorough person in this thread when it comes to explaining what I believe and why I believe it.

I am as sure of my prediction as you are that Litecoin will remain #2. No one can tell the future, and I am not claiming to be a fortune teller. I am stating my opinions that are based on facts and events that have happened over the past couple years.

I'm talking about the bullshit arguments that Litecoiners use to support the reason for its value, most of them are ridiculous.

I don't know how I can be any more clear. I think Litecoin will be replaced as the #2 crypto currency in the next 1 to 2 years, possibly sooner. That is not vague at all, what did you want.. an exact date and time this will happen?  

Well some of those claims you say have been made I do not believe were made by me. So thanks again for lumping me in with the rest of them. lol

If you read my post again I said you never said "doesn't exactly say it will lose its #2 spot" in your comment. But now that you clarified that I'll accept it as a valid prediction with no wiggle room. We will revisit this in 2 years 

[smoothie]

Ok - so read through the Litecoin Talk thread...It seems to me that Coinhoarder donated $1000 worth of LTC - his suggestions for changes to Litecoin were 'ignored' - this seems to have upset him. Unfortunately donations to the developers does not give a right to dictate Litecoins future, very much like what Goat did when he setup the Litecoin Foundation with an agenda to sell physical Litecoins. Donations should show support for Litecoin, not follow up with getting upset when the developers didn't do what you wanted.  

Its a shame you turned your back on Litecoin, but your posting tone is pretty arrogant - you supposedly left Litecoin in April but seem upset enough months later to continue posting about it. Your OP had some valid points but your tone lately shows someone who is upset, pissed off and hurt they were not listened too.

+1

[smoothie]

Ok - so read through the Litecoin Talk thread...It seems to me that Coinhoarder donated $1000 worth of LTC - his suggestions for changes to Litecoin were 'ignored' - this seems to have upset him. Unfortunately donations to the developers does not give a right to dictate Litecoins future, very much like what Goat did when he setup the Litecoin Foundation with an agenda to sell physical Litecoins. Donations should show support for Litecoin, not follow up with getting upset when the developers didn't do what you wanted.  

Its a shame you turned your back on Litecoin, but your posting tone is pretty arrogant - you supposedly left Litecoin in April but seem upset enough months later to continue posting about it. Your OP had some valid points but your tone lately shows someone who is upset, pissed off and hurt they were not listened too.

OP - What crypto community did you join after your left LTC? Genuinely curious..

As I have explained over at the Litecoin forums in a separate thread where I addressed what Smoothie had to say about me (I will quote it after this post so you can hear my side of the story.) I would of left Litecoin whether or not I made the donation. All of my donations to the Litecoin development team have been no strings attached. This is something I cared very deeply about and I thought it was necessary that Litecoin make some changes to stay relevant. Smoothie is the one that accused me of trying to bribe the developers to get my way, which couldn't be further from the truth. This is just another case of Smoothie speaking of things he knows nothing about.

Smoothie has been talking crap about me on Litecointalk and Bitcointalk forums, so this is why I feel the need to defend myself. If someone started attacking you would you just sit there and take the blows? Sorry, but I'm not Jesus.

I haven't chosen which coin I'm going to support next, but I can tell you the projects that I find are interesting to me. In no certain order... Counterparty, Mastercoin, Bitshares, Bitshares AGS, Swarm, Ethereum, Nxt, Maidsafe, Monero, and Zerocash. I am still deciding, but there's no reason why I couldn't support a few or all of these projects.. they are all much more interesting to me than Litecoin ever was. I am sure I'm forgetting a few too.. there are so many awesome new coins coming out.

Where did I ever claim your donations were bribes or that you were trying to bribe the developers? Dont put words in my mouth. Thanks  

Please post a link to where I say that. Thanks. Otherwise stfu please.  

[CoinHoarder]

I can no longer recommend it as a good investment at this point in time.

Are you a financial advisor?

No, but I like to pretend to be one.

I will give them (well… Warren) a bit of credit for improving some security issues on both Litecoin and Bitcoin, but they do not see the glaring issue in that the end users don’t actually ever see these improvements.

Since when does innovation = success and only in that case? How about I name drop on you: Toyota, Honda, Kia, etc. They all COPIED Ford yet they haven't changed much about the design of a car in the innovative sense, yet they have been successful.

innovation =/= success
innovation =/= market acceptance
innovation =/= network effect

I'd venture to say there are more companies that have failed, or at the very least not done as well as they could have done, by not embracing innovation and being more forward thinking. In the OP I listed a whole paragraph of them that dwarfs your tiny list of examples in one industry, and I even forgot one of the biggest ones... AOL. I believe my examples were mostly technology companies, as with crypto currencies, things develop quickly and those that don't innovate and adapt are left behind. It is completely different than the automobile industry which technology is not really advancing at such a fast pace. We could sit here naming companies that have innovated and been successful, and companies that have not innovated and still been successful all night. This is again an opinion and it seems yours differs from mine, the difference is you act like your statements are facts when I admit my opinions are just that... opinions.

I guess it also depends on how you measure success. Success to me is staying as the #2 crypto currency or maybe even surpassing Bitcoin. If you deem Litecoin to be successful just as long as it doesn't die (which admittedly is impossible.. scotcoin is still kicking, see last page of coin market cap), then I guess that is again your opinion.

I hate that I have to explain myself again as I've already gone over the following in great detail in his thread. It would be nice if you actually read the thread before posting.

I've gone over market acceptance and the network effect already in this thread if you would have read it before posting. As to market acceptance.. payment processors will add the most popular crypto currencies regardless of whether their name is Bitcoin or Litecoin. The reason for that is merchants will get more business than they would have if they only accepted Bitcoin or Litecoin. I am certain I received a few extra sales for physical Litecoins because of the fact I used coinpayments.net as my payment processor which accepts 30+ alternative crypto currencies. I had a few people pay in coins that are not named Bitcoin and Litecoin, and Im not sure if I would of made those sales if I only accepted Bitcoin and Litecoin. It just makes sense to merchants to give their customers as many options for payment as possible, so that they can do more business than they otherwise would have been able to do by only accepting one or two coins. The most forward thinking payment processors will become the most popular ones, those that only process payments for one or two coins will slowly be phased out as merchants pick the payment processors that give their customers more options to pay. If you get paid with a crypto currency that you don't want to keep, it is stupidly easy to have an exchange like Cryptsy automatically and instantly (or place an order on the top of the sell side and wait a bit) exchange those coins for a coin that you do want. This is all a no brainer to me.. it is not even up for discussion. Other popular coins will become just as widely accepted as Bitcoin and Litecoin over time due to these reasons.

I agree the Litecoin has the network effect going for it, however I think most Litecoiners overestimate the importance of the network effect when it comes to Litecoin. They see how important Bitcoin's network effect has been to its success, and think it will automatically translate over to Litecoin. Bitcoin's network effect is much stronger than Litecoins. Bitcoin is the one in the news all day everyday, not Litecoin. Litecoin's network effect is somewhat limited in scope to those that are already in the crypto currency community, someone is exponentially more likely to find out about Bitcoin before Litecoin, due to its network effect being much stronger. Since Litecoin's network effect is somewhat limited to this community, people are more likely to see through the bullshit arguments for Litecoin and see it for what it is... Bitcoin with a few changed parameters.

Crypto currency users/investors want new and improved features

Thanks we can all speak for ourselves.

Well, I can certainly tell that you can speak for yourself.

The free market will speak for itself as well and prove your statement true or not. But it isn't for you to claim it as true.

The free market agrees with me over the past six months, so by your own statement you have proven yourself wrong. The same amount of Litecoins can only buy about half of the Bitcoins they could of bought 6 months ago. The free market is seeing what I am seeing, and only the true hardcore Litecoiners are left living in denial.

By staying three steps behind Bitcoin in the crypto currency wars, they are positioning themselves to be obsolete if Bitcoin is ever supplanted by a new crypto currency that is much better.

Looks like Litecoin did just well when Bitcoin forked the block chain in March of 2013 due to the fact that it was 1 or 2 releases/versions behind Bitcoin.

Yes, you are right that is one instance of Litecoin being 3 releases behind as being a good thing. Actually... the only instance of that. Congratulations.

What I meant by that statement is that if another crypto currency was to become so popular due to its features and innovations over Bitcoin, that Litecoin is dead in the water. If Litecoin would embrace innovation and be more forward thinking, then they would still have a chance in this scenario because they would have more features than Bitcoin does and less likely to topple.

I made a hard push to get Litecoiners behind the idea of implementing new decentralized features, such as asset exchanges and decentralized applications, and I was completely ignored by the developers and dismissed by most of the Litecoin faithful.

So you were depending/expecting others to do it? Why don't you take it upon yourself to hire people to do what you want to get implemented then have it released out into the wild so people can choose to adopt or not? That seems like a better approach than yours described above as a "hard push" which equates to posting on a forum. lol

#1 - I am not a developer
#2 - I do not own any Litecoins and haven't for about 6 months or so.
#3 - Since I don't own any Litecoins, I didn't feel it neccessary to put it upon myself to do all the work of forming a team to create new features on top of Litecoin. What would be in it for me since I don't own any Litecoins? Again, although I like to spend my free time supporting causes I am interested in and think are important, making people who own Litecoins rich is not one of those causes. As I've said to you before, I don't see you over on the Feathercoin forums trying to help out Feathercoin. Why is that? Probbly because you don't own any Feathercoins. That is just a random example, but would be applicable for any crypto currency you are not interested in and/or do not own.

This is how the “best development team” operates? Completely ignoring their user base and someone that has gone out of his way to support Litecoin time and time again?

You sound very judgmental here. Not everyone can always respond to everyone and just because you didn't get an answer or the answer you wanted isn't reason enough to give up and whine. I've donated to the litecoin development team 1000 LTC and haven't made as much ruckus about them ignoring people as you have. Time and time again?  You make like you donated enough funds to get the changes you wanted done done. Yet you should just get it done yourself if you are that passionate about it instead of complaining so-in-so is not doing what I asked or isn't responding to my request for these changes.

I direct you to my last statement, I did not (and still don't) own any Litecoins at the time, and it is not my job to make you guys rich. It is not my fault that you guys can't see where crypto currencies are headed in the next 1 to 2 years. I think you will realize that new and improved (innovative..) features are a good thing for crypto currencies to compete in this very competitive industry.

This is not the only case where the developers have done as they pleased, many voiced concerns about ASICs coming online and ruining the decentralized nature of the network, making people pay for hardware that will never ROI and sadly has little to no resale value, and suscept the Litecoin mining community to pre-ordering hardware they may never even see (or at least they likely will never see on time before the difficulty skyrockets like what happened with Bitcoin.)

1. No one makes people pay for hardware. They can make their own choice.

2. ASICs can't be stopped. Changing the mining algorithm would mean a hard fork which likely will burn many users who are not paying attention to the update.

3. Complaining that mining is a fool's game sounds like your version of not looking at the risks of mining before investing and now hind-sight is getting the best of you.

1. You are right, no one makes anyone pay for mining hardware, however when all mining hardware available is unprofitable, what is the point of buying it in the first place? Many people that have bought Bitcoin ASICs (and now.. Scrypt ASICs) are starting to realize it's a fools game. Once this sentiment is shared by the community, the network will become more decentralized than ever as old money crypto, corporations, and old money FIAT take over mining. Again, at that point it is not a decentralized currency like what you are advertising it to be.

2. A hard fork is better than mining being monopolized by old money crypto, corporations, and old money FIAT. Crypto currencies are marketed as being a currency by the people for the people, but that will not be the case once they are controlled by a small group of powerful individuals. They can literally do anything they want at that point. I have faith that someone will find a way to block out ASICs from mining, as I think it is a horrible thing for a decentralized currency. If not, then there are always PoW alternatives like PoS. I think PoW is on its death bed as it's so wasteful. I again point to Forbes estimating that in December $15 million in electricity is wasted by securing the Bitcoin block chain every day. If you are 100% for PoW and not alternatives like PoS, then I feel like you must hate planet earth. There are other more sensible choices that don't use a fraction of those energy costs. Furthermore, there are certain use cases like Primecoin which actually do something useful to society with their PoW. Sure, finding prime numbers is not all that exciting, but it helps in the advancement of mathmatics which is a lot more than SHA256/Scrypt can say. There are other interesting use cases like coins that award users for BOINC processing etcetera. If we're going to burn the electricity and you insist on using PoW, then we might as well be doing something useful with it. These are only the first use cases of using PoW to do something useful, I have a feeling that more will come along that will be deemed "more useful" than its predecessors. Primecoin was important in that it showed that the PoW can be so much more than just a waste of energy and securing the block chain.

3. Complaining that ASIC mining is fool's game is just the sad reality of Bitcoin/Litecoin mining today. Since I'm so bad at picking ASIC horses, how about you go purchase some ASICs and come back to tell me how you do. I would be shocked if you broke even in terms of Bitcoin. There are many people on these forums that know where I am coming from when I say that ASIC mining is a fool's game. The ASIC manufacturers squeeze all of the profit out of mining, leaving their customers lucky to earn back their money and left with worthless mining equipment.

Litecoin is not a back up to Bitcoin. If a huge flaw is found in Bitcoin and someone attacks it, Litecoin is likely to share that flaw.

And you think newer code bases for other coins which have not been as extensively tested for flaws would be a better choice? lol

I do not think that the newer coins will become more popular than Litecoin because of their security, they will beat Litecoin because they are more forward thinking and innovative than Litecoin. The security issues will be solved over time, and people will trust the newer coins more and more as time goes on and no problems are had. Sure, they may not embrace them quickly.. this is why I'm giving Litecoin 1-2 years to stay at #2. Furthermore, over time more and more developers will look at, analyze, and update the code base of these coins, making them just as secure as Litecoin today. To say that just because a crypto currency is new it is not as secure as Litecoin is baloney. If the developers were well educated, smart, and security focused, there is not reason why their crypto currencies couldn't be as secure or even more secure than Litecoin.

Crypto currencies will certainly take a hit if Bitcoin dies, however it will not be the end of this movement I am certain of that.

For once I agree with you. The genie is out of the bottle.

At least we agree on something.

Coblee was nowhere to be seen in the Litecoin community. Once the price started to rise he suddenly showed up and started making an effort. I have no problem with that, but I couldn’t help but notice the coincidence.

No one is required to be at a certain place at a certain time. Some of us have lives and to make a judgement purely on him is childish.

He was gone for months, and as I said in the OP I am not judging him for that, but it was hard not to notice the coincidence that he showed back up when Litecoin went up to $0.15-$0.30. Ever since Litecoin blew up in price he has been a lot more active as far as posting and development, but for a long time people (me including) were upset with him for the lack of updates and were worried about Litecoin. Litecoin was way further behind on updates at that time, much more so than only 1 or 2 updates. Even if he is busy with real life, he could of recruited help (which it seems that's what he ended up doing.) However, he didn't do that until he saw Litecoin rising in value and realized it could actually be worth something one day. It seemed like it was just a hobby he lost interest in for before then.

For instance, Coblee seemed genuinely excited and even encouraged me to make my physical Litecoins at the Bitcoin conference in 2013, even stating that he wanted one! He completely ignored me after this, only replying to one of my controversial posts when the ASIC debate was at its peak. I have seen him supporting Smoothie and his ventures, and even the new “Coinographic” guy, but he never once supported me publicly- only privately in conversation and then ignored forever.

So because in your view Charles didn't "support" your physical coin efforts in the way that you had expected you are going to complain about it? Charles wasn't always available to me when I sought him out. But you don't hear me crying about it as I am aware he is a family man and has much more important responsibilities than "making Coinhoarder feel like he is supported in his physical litecoin endeavor". lol

I have much more respect for Coinographic because so far he has not given me a reason to not like him. He so far has kept his word and looks like he has his sh*t together. There are some things he has yet to deliver on but time will tell on that. He hasn't used me or my coins as a basis to lift the development of his coins up (in words) as you have done in the past.

Yes, this was a factor in my decision to leave. This was not the only case of the developers ignoring me, as you can see in my "community project: let's create a protocol on top of Litecoin" thread. That was the final nail in the coffin when I was completely ignored in that thread and the thread was moved to alternative crypto currency subforum. Maybe its just me, but if I was the creator of Litecoin, I would go above and beyond to support the people that are putting forth a real effort to further the Litecoin brand and name recognition. I can't help but notice him supporting and posting in your and Coinographic's threads and voicing his excitement and support... he really seems genuine. It is odd that I got left out of that group.. if he doesn't have the time, why does he have time for you guys? This goes back to my thinking that there is a click in Litecoin that is hard to get into. I'm not sure who Coinographic is, but I would venture to say they've been around for a while and are part of the "good ole' boys" club like you are. If I am not appreciated for what I am doing, then I am not going to continue to do it. I didn't make ANY money off of making and selling coins.. it all went to my bad decision for a BTC denominated loan. I am still paying for that decision today.

So in summary, yes that was a factor to my decision but it obviously is not the only one. Maybe that is a bit childish and I can see how you could think that, but it is what it is. "I ams who I am" - Popeye

Faster block times are no longer a good selling point, as there are other coins with faster block times that don’t have a huge problem with stales etcetera. Anywhere in between a minute and two and a half minute block time does not suffer from the things that Litecoin says will happen if they go any faster, at least not to the point where it is a huge problem. Everyone knows by now that Litecoin confirmations are less secure than Bitcoin confirmations.

I personally believe there is a market for faster transaction confirmations. Bigger purchases can stomach longer confirmations like in Bitcoin. But if you are going to pay for coffee who will wait for 10-60 minutes for a bitcoin confirmation? There has to be something to fill that market. Whether it is LTC or not is  irrelevant. The faster block times in my view is a good positioning mechanism in the crypto space at least for litecoin it is.

I agree there is a market for faster transaction confirmations, however there are coins that are faster than Litecoin so I don't see Litecoin as being the solution to this. Who is going to want to even wait 2.5 minutes to pay for a cup of coffee?? Answer: no one. The reasoning Litecoin supporters have given for not going with a quicker block time than 2.5 minutes have been proven false by a lot of the copy and paste coins that came out. They claimed that they would be filled with problems like stales and forks, however it has been proven that a block time of one minute to two and a half minutes is not the end of the world like Litecoin supporters had claimed. Since there exists much quicker block speed coins, I don't see this as being a reason for Litecoin to be #2.

Furthermore, many merchants and payment processors process small payments (like a cup of coffee would be) instantly because a confirmation for a $2 purchase is not really necessary. The amount of times you're going to get double spent on are going to be so small compared to the instances where the transaction will happen as advertised across the network.

It is going to take something truly innovative to supplant Bitcoin, and by coincidence Litecoin as well since they are content blindly following Bitcoin.

Last I checked Litecoin was never meant to replace Bitcoin.

Yes, but the newer more innovative and more forward thinking coins may not share that same sentiment.  

[CoinHoarder]

Well some of those claims you say have been made I do not believe were made by me. So thanks again for lumping me in with the rest of them. lol

If you read my post again I said you never said "doesn't exactly say it will lose its #2 spot" in your comment. But now that you clarified that I'll accept it as a valid prediction with no wiggle room. We will revisit this in 2 years 

Some of being the key word. You are still spewing a lot of not completely thought through arguments, so you should be lumped in this "the other guys."

[CoinHoarder]

Where did I ever claim your donations were bribes or that you were trying to bribe the developers? Dont put words in my mouth. Thanks  

Please post a link to where I say that. Thanks. Otherwise stfu please.  

I linked to the thread on Litecointalk in my post refuting the things you said about me. Actually, someone else brought it up that they thought I was trying to bribe the Litecoin developers, and you more or less agreed with them. You even took it a few steps further and explained to everyone how awesome you are and how much money you donated and never asked for anything in return, insinuating that I was trying to bribe them. Sometimes you need to read between the lines of your posts for the "thinly veiled insults" I keep referring to, but I am sure that they are there and intentional. I am not making that up, as it happens repeatedly.

[TheMage]

Wow, you certainly did promise a long write up. I am impressed (and not being sarcastic either)!

Coinhoarder, as you know i've personally never had anything against you or any other community member at all. But im sure you can expect a reply from me as well hehe. You took a long time to post this, and deserve and equal length and thought in a response .

I know there are a lot of threads for this already, but I wanted to start a new one as I felt the past ones did not give thorough reasons, and were somewhat trollish in nature. I have been a hardcore Litecoin supporter for the past couple years, and I do not think it is going away anytime soon. I am trying to think more long term than that, and Litecoin seems poised to die a slow death if it continues down the same path. The onslaught of copy and paste coins, followed by the onslaught of innovative coins, has changed the way I think about Litecoin. I can no longer recommend it as a good investment at this point in time. I have lobbied for Litecoin harder than even Bitcoin, and my decision to no longer support Litecoin was not an easy one. This post will be brushed aside as FUD or as me being a “hater”, but I hope you read what I have to say and think about the points I bring up, I assure you I have thought long and hard about them.

First of all, I congratulate you for posting something good to read rather than "Litecoin is dead cause I say it is" that I see from the normal trolls .

I feel like the argument that “Litecoin has the best development team” is quite disrespectful to the many other talented and devoted developers of other alt coins. You might as well call them all idiots. In fact, there are many developers that are going above and beyond what the Litecoin developers are doing. Litecoin has decided that it is content to simply follow in the steps of Bitcoin, something I tried hard to lobby against. Litecoin is merely developing things that Bitcoin has already made, such as Electrum and Android wallets. I will give them (well… Warren) a bit of credit for improving some security issues on both Litecoin and Bitcoin, but they do not see the glaring issue in that the end users don’t actually ever see these improvements. Nor do they particularly care… what I mean by that is… Have any of you ever had a problem because of a security issue in the Litecoin/Bitcoin client? I would be surprised to hear one person tell me yes they have, as after using it for years I haven’t and most cases that pop up seem to be user error.

While I personally feel that Litecoin has some of the best and the brightest, I certainly do not doubt the efforts and skills of other developers at all. There are a many of them that are talented and at first glance a few of them really want to try to make improvements upon this young moment (i.e cryptos).

With your second part you seem to contradict your statements. At first you congratulate the LTC dev team for making improvements with security and in the same breath mention that you never heard of security issues and therefore end users dont care. Come on man.....if there were any serious security issues with the BTC or LTC clients then it would be a huge issue with the entire crypto movement. Security at this point in the game is the number one item that needs to be taken care of more than anything else. I would like to use an analogy that if there was any serious security issues with a bank (like if a bank was robbed) and there was no FDIC to fall abck on, peoples money would be truly lost. Therefore there would be a heck of a lot less people that go to that bank. End users care about security, just see how many of crypto people out there really care about security on exchanges after the entire empty gox fiasco. Security is key!

Crypto currency users/investors want new and improved features, this is something they can actually see and use, and that adds value to the currency in their mind. I think merely following in Bitcoin’s footsteps is possibly a path to becoming obsolete. We already have Bitcoin, we don’t need another currency that is almost exactly like it except for a few changed parameters. By staying three steps behind Bitcoin in the crypto currency wars, they are positioning themselves to be obsolete if Bitcoin is ever supplanted by a new crypto currency that is much better. I made a hard push to get Litecoiners behind the idea of implementing new decentralized features, such as asset exchanges and decentralized applications, and I was completely ignored by the developers and dismissed by most of the Litecoin faithful. This is how the “best development team” operates? Completely ignoring their user base and someone that has gone out of his way to support Litecoin time and time again? You would think there is no value in the ideas of creating Dcorps/Dapps the way I was dismissed, but as you can see with the money flowing in on projects like BitsharesAGS/Swarm/Etcetera, a large portion of the crypto currency community agrees with me.

With your first part, crypto currency investors are really two types of people out there. So lets get that out of the way first.

1. The long term investors
2. the short term investors (i.e. the pump and dumpers)

Claiming there is one type is really not helpful to the conversation. This is the same as penny stocks versus investing in Microsoft, google, and other major companies. In the end, yes they both produce a net profit, but the means and the thoughts associated with them are two different worlds. As far as the crypto market is concerned, there are really two choices in terms of long term investment, and those are BTC and LTC (which you have admitted throughout your post as far as a current leader albeit you claim it is dying a slow death).

"We already have a Bitcoin", yes we do, its called Bitcoin. We also have Litecoin as a strong community and supporter to the crypto atmosphere as a whole. I really am impressed that you stated "if bitcoin is ever replaced", this tells me you are at least a reasonable person to discuss things with. With that said, right now with market adoption and brand Bitcoin is light years ahead of everything else, mainly because it is "the first". the advantages of having Litecoin in addition to bitcoin are quite a few, and it goes well beyond the technological aspects and into sociological, security, and human nature aspects.

1. Its a separate blockchain, God forbid anything happens to Bitcoin, Litecoin is a well known "backup"
2. We do not do a copy and paste of its code, from my understanding we are 2 versions behind bitcoin in case an implementation goes wrong
3. Litecoin is the oldest successful alternate to Bitcoin
4. Litecoin had one of if not the most fair launch ever, this is to include other different POW coins (I can elaborate on this in another post if someone were so inclined)
5. There is more, but the point is its a "trusted brand", evidence can be seen as in the trade volume and coupling to BTC. Essentially the trade volume is due to the fact that LTC is being used as arbitrage between BTC/LTC. It's trusted enough that people program bots to use it and its a safe number two with a possible future increase.
6. There is more, but hopefully I proved my points


As far as your thread about incorporating all these cool neato fantastic wiz bang features that all these other coins have I have a challenge for you. I would love to see you make the same threads here in Bitcointalk and get Gavin to respond to it stating he will work on it. If you really feel that strongly, you can certainly launch a campaign to do the same here. I would expect your results to be the same. This is because the devs recognize that all these gimmicks are really nothing more than gimmicks (with the exception of the new POW coins, but that would require a folk for LTC and I will address forks later on here)

And BTW you do not speak for the entire user base, while I respect your opinions as I always respect our community members you certainly do not speak for me.

This is not the only case where the developers have done as they pleased, many voiced concerns about ASICs coming online and ruining the decentralized nature of the network, making people pay for hardware that will never ROI and sadly has little to no resale value, and suscept the Litecoin mining community to pre-ordering hardware they may never even see (or at least they likely will never see on time before the difficulty skyrockets like what happened with Bitcoin.) After a year and a half of investing in ASIC mining technology, running group buys, and hosting hardware, I can honestly say it is a fool’s game. The original batch 1 Avalons broke even and made a hefty profit, and almost every ASIC offering since then has fallen short of simply allowing their customers to break even. I will no longer support ASIC mining or the companies that make them, and when that sentiment is shared by a large group of people (I know I’m not alone,) it can be a very dangerous thing and lead to centralization of the network. I am worried for both Bitcoin and Litecoin in those regards… when a crypto currency becomes centralized, what is the point really? Satoshi would not approve.

I...agree with you on this point. I have 1 asic, and this is one that was donated to me from lightning asic as a test unit (I was the lucky recipient of one of the worlds first scrypt asics, disclosure now, its complete crap lol).

This as mentioned by many members, Waren, and even Coblee himself have stated that there is no good way to take care of this issue. The con is that the network itself is somewhat centralized (but way better than how BTC is now), but the pro is in fact a stronger network, which you agreed on in your postings. In addition, in order to avoid this it would have required a hard fork, which would have the possibility of undermining the entire coin itself.

It's really a choice, do we want more capital poured into Litecoin and continue to pour in via infrastructure, or do we hard fork and let investors know that it isn't as "safe" as they wanted it to be. If you think about it, from a capital perspective, who the heck would invest in something that people could change on a whim and completely demolish your investments?

Although I do somewhat worry about it, but there is no good answer at this point other than letting the coin evolve into what BTC has become.

Litecoin’s trade volume and market cap dwarf those of other alternative crypo currencies. Although this is true, I feel like this is very dangerous reasoning for determining the future of a cryptocoin and should not be a large factor of your decision. Have you ever heard of the banks that are “too big to fail”? This is the kind of reasoning this reminds me of. Does anyone remember when Facebook came out of nowhere and made Myspace obsolete? Blockbuster got killed by Netflix and Redbox. Dell, once a leader in the IT sector has fallen behind its competitors. Kodak’s stock price is about 96% lower than it was in 1997 due to the advent of personal printers, improvements in software, and file sharing. Microsoft was at the forefront of technology at one point, and now they are playing catch up when it comes to search engines, internet video, ebooks, smartphones, and tablet PCs. Motorola was huge when mobile telephones first came out, yet they failed to focus on smartphones with new features and rapidly lost market share to companies like Apple, LG, and Samsung. Sears got huge by sending out catalogs and allowing customers to order things from home, but failed to capitalize when ecommerce became much more popular to consumers. A Sony Walkman used to be today’s iPod. Yahoo… Toys R Us… need I say more?

For this section, I like to do the grandma test. Go call your grandmother and ask her about Bitcoins (or any other older person). More times than not statistically speaking, you will get a "what is that" answer. The crypto eco-system is so very new, that all of these gimmicks at the end of the day really dont matter. What matters is being safe and brand recognition, which LTC have both of which is light years ahead of other alts (with the exception of dogecoin and Bitcoin). I mention this because you are talking about VERY WELL established companies that are uplifted by new comers. But how do you uplift a new comer by another new comer? Maybe sometime in the future, when BTC and LTC are accepted worldwide and I can pay my phone and electric bill with them, these new payment systems would be awesome! But also by that time, BTC and LTC will already be accepted by these companies.....so I really fail to see the argument here.

Due to rapid technological advancements and the competition being innovative and forward thinking (seeing a pattern here?), companies can become obsolete very fast and I see no reason why this does not (or could not) hold true with crypto currencies. The network effect is very powerful, however I feel like the network effect is exponentially more powerful for Bitcoin than it is for Litecoin. It is Bitcoin that is in the news all day every day, not Litecoin. Although Litecoin does get more attention than most other alternative crypto currencies, I feel this is because they are the guys to beat right now. As you can see in the last paragraph, this could change quickly and this is not a good argument for Litecoin holding its number two spot.

See above please . Although I agree that Litecoin isnt "marketed" as much as Litecoin, but I personally plan to see this change.

Although Litecoin may be accepted by more exchanges and merchants than other alternative crypto currencies, the more innovative and valuable ones are sure to follow. Multi coin payment processing is going to become more popular as more coins come out. Having a different payment processor for every crypto currency is just not a smart way of doing things, and the ones that only accept one or two crypto currencies will be less popular with merchants over time. If someone wants to buy something from me with Sex Coin, I am going to want their business as I can simply exchange the Sex Coin for whatever coin I would like. If the consumers have more options to pay, the more likely they are to purchase something. I am sure that I sold a few extra physical Litecoins because I used coinpayments.net which accepts something like 30+ crypto coins. I had it setup to automatically exchange the coins that I didn’t want. It was stupidly easy and got me a little extra business. What merchant wouldn’t want this? They will choose the payment processor that supports the most coins, and the most stubborn payment processors will be slowly phased out. Exchanges make money by people trading crypto currencies (duh, right?). There is no reason they will not keep adding coins to trade alongside other coins to increase their profit. By not adding new coins, whether it’s a scam coin or not, they are leaving money off the table and it makes no sense.

Lets work backwards, if your claim about companies (exchanges and payment processors) is true, then please tell me why certain exchanges will not accept nothing but Bitcoin. And even with that, there are a few major ones (BTC-China) that only accept BTC and LTC (before you go into the Bobby Lee and Charlie argument, I will state that Bobby, while being CEO, can't make these types of decisions solely. It requires the rest of the founders to be on board which were reluctant for a long time).

As far as acceptance, I will go with a somewhat good analogy. Betamax and VHS. Betamax was hands down the better technology, but they didnt have a controlling market share nor did they have the marketing that VHS had.

The Litecoin is silver to Bitcoin’s goal is simply a marketing slogan, nothing more nothing less. You could just as easily say Xcoin is silver to Bitcoin’s gold, and it wouldn’t be an incorrect statement. This thinking is similar to the “Litecoin is too big to fail” dogma, as we’ve seen with many of the technology giants that have been surpassed by innovative and forward thinking competition, this could change very quickly. I don’t look at Litecoin having ATMs as being a huge deal, as most people are looking to install Bitcoin ATMs. For Litecoin to compete with Bitcoin in the ATM space, they need to hope that Bitcoin ATMs are made to support Litecoin. If Bitcoin ATMs can be made to support Litecoin (and duh they can), then there is nothing stopping them from supporting other crypto currencies.

The only people claiming the "Silver to BTC's gold" are mainly trolls (I know you arent a troll, but others are). We have even had people in the community say we need to get away from this slogan because LTC can stand on its own two feet.

As far as the ATM's, they are really nice to see. But lets be honest....because cryptos as a whole are new who REALLY uses these? They are a niche market right now that may explode in the future, but right now are just a gimmick.

The rest of this paragraph can be related to betamax versus VHS again.

Yes Litecoin’s network speed dwarfs that of other Scrypt coins, and it is likely much more secure than those. However, I think it is silly to focus on only Scrypt coins. There are other innovative and valuable alternative crypto currencies that are not Scrypt-based. Some of the newer & most popular ones you can’t even mine them at all (like PoS coins). Making that a reason to be better than another ALT coin that does not have mining is like Mike Tyson fighting a baby. You can’t mine those coins, so how is Litecoin being the most secure Scrypt coin a good selling point? Maybe it is a good selling point versus all other Scrypt coins, however most of those are crap and everyone knows it.

I think you mean network hash rate in the first sentence (I'll just assume thats what you mean)?

The problem with PoS coins is that these still arent a great way for distribution. Sure they alleviate the power issue, but you cant distribute these properly. IPO's are nice, for initial investors, and if you had a great marketing team you can get more people to buy, but its still a bad way to distribute. If the distribution can be solved, that coin will blow out LTC and BTC.

Litecoin is not a back up to Bitcoin. If a huge flaw is found in Bitcoin and someone attacks it, Litecoin is likely to share that flaw. I always thought Litecoin would be a good backup if Bitcoin somehow was flawed because of it using a different algorithm. After learning more about this, I do not feel that is the case anymore. The encryption algorithm is the least likely place that a huge vulnerability will found. Cryptography is studied in academia much more so than Bitcoin’s source code, and the best and brightest are studying it... cryptography is no walk in the park. Short of quantum computing, which is unfeasible in the next 30 to 40 years, the encryption algorithm will not be the weak link. Furthermore, since Litecoin feels so apt to follow in Bitcoin’s steps, a huge percentage of the code base is shared by the two. If one goes down, the other is likely to follow. You may say… well if Bitcoin dies then all crypto currencies are doomed, but I am not so sure that is the case. Where other companies have failed, others have gone on to innovate and change the industry forever, even becoming bigger and better than their predecessors. Crypto currencies will certainly take a hit if Bitcoin dies, however it will not be the end of this movement I am certain of that.

I already stated that the code used is I think 2 versions behind in case there was a serious flaw. With the amount of talent in both coins I seriously doubt there is any issues however. But the added advantage is again all the devs work together to help both coins.

FYI quantum computing will be coming sooner than 30-40 years..........

And if BTC dies it may not kill the movement, but we will see a SERIOUS setback as a whole. To state otherwise is just ignorance.

As to the Litecoin Association being a good reason to support Litecoin… are you kidding me? Have you seen all the drama and mess the Bitcoin Foundation has had going on... I’m sure everyone has. I would venture to say that at this point the Bitcoin Foundation is hurting Bitcoin more than it is supporting it. When people form centralized foundations for decentralized technologies, it goes against the original spirit of decentralization and crypto currencies for which Satoshi set precedent for. As to Litecoin having a better community than any other alternative crypto currency, I beg to differ. I never felt welcomed, and was often chastized for my opinions. Although Coblee was very nice when I met him at the Bitcoin 2013 conference, he literally ignored me after that. Even when I was pleading to the developers to comment on adding new features to Litecoin. Honestly, before Litecoin jumped up in price in November/December 2012, Coblee was nowhere to be seen in the Litecoin community. Once the price started to rise he suddenly showed up and started making an effort. I have no problem with that, but I couldn’t help but notice the coincidence. Anytime I tried to bring up controversial opinions or suggestions I was met with opposition mostly from early adopters. Furthermore, I feel like the Litecoin community is a big “click” and the really early adopters are much more likely to support each other on controversial matters than new users, and this is alarming considering Coblee is in this group. For instance, Coblee seemed genuinely excited and even encouraged me to make my physical Litecoins at the Bitcoin conference in 2013, even stating that he wanted one! He completely ignored me after this, only replying to one of my controversial posts when the ASIC debate was at its peak. I have seen him supporting Smoothie and his ventures, and even the new “Coinographic” guy, but he never once supported me publicly- only privately in conversation and then ignored forever. Again, this brings me back to there being a Litecoin “click” that is hard to get into… I couldn’t even after spilling blood, sweat, and tears for them.

This really hurts man and you know better. I as a main member of the Litecoin Association you know very well that we operate in a completely different atmosphere than the Bitcoin Foundation. The LA, unlike the TBF, are not associated with the developers. We are here to educate and help both LTC and cryptos as a whole. This can be shown by the MANY initiatives we are involved in from charities, to community projects, to marketing and public education. None of us are paid for our work at all. And we have raised thousands of dollars to help quite a number of people and organizations. The LA also hosts and pays for Litecointalk on top of that. We have raised funds for the development team as well, who in turn donated to the P2Pool developer which helps BTC and other coins that use the code.

As far as your business and interactions with Coblee, I can't really comment at all since for obvious reasons I wasn't involved in all of that.

Faster block times are no longer a good selling point, as there are other coins with faster block times that don’t have a huge problem with stales etcetera. Anywhere in between a minute and two and a half minute block time does not suffer from the things that Litecoin says will happen if they go any faster, at least not to the point where it is a huge problem. Everyone knows by now that Litecoin confirmations are less secure than Bitcoin confirmations. Furthermore, many Bitcoin payment processors process payments without any or as little as 1 confirmation, making some Bitcoin payments instant. I don’t see this as good as a feature I had originally thought, as many coins have come out that were faster and didn’t completely fail. Along this same line of thinking, the statement that Litecoin had a fair release… how is that even a feature? That is just default common sense for any developer developing a crypto currency if they want it to succeed. Not having a fair release is a sure way to death, as was learned with the alternative crypto currencies that came before Litecoin. Since Litecoin was released, I feel like there were numerous even more fair releases than Litecoin. So again, this argument lost its appeal to me.

Not really sure what the argument here is. You used the argument that we are a copy of BTC, now you are saying we are BTC with a few extra incentives (faster block times). So small innovations like this arent work mentioning and instead used as a argument AGAINST BTC?

"Everyone knows by now that Litecoin confirmations are less secure than Bitcoin confirmations." -->  This statement is pure bullshit and has no basis what so ever. I am not even sure where you came up with this. As a matter of fact, there was a coindesk article that stated a company has found a way to REVERSE BTC payments, which has a much lesser chance of succeeding with LTC.

As far as the release, Ive addressed that and can elaborate in another post if you really need me too (ive already typed it up in two or three posts here in Bitcointalk, as well as Coblee addressing it).

For those of you that think this may be FUD, I can tell you I currently do not have a balance above zero in any crypto currencies, and this is my non biased opinion of Litecoin and why I have stopped supporting it. Again, I must stress it was a hard decision as I have been supporting it for so long, and even got some of my friends and family invested. I am starting to regret that now, I am going to have to point them to this paper as I would feel horrible if they are left holding the bag. I can only really suggest Bitcoin at this point, anything else is really risky and it’s too early to tell who will rise to the top. I suggest putting a small percentage of your coins into projects you find interesting or innovative. It is going to take something truly innovative to supplant Bitcoin, and by coincidence Litecoin as well since they are content blindly following Bitcoin. I have a feeling this day will come sooner than we all think.

I dont really consider it FUD (except the LTC confirms you stated in the last part, I have no idea where you came up with that), but it is in no way unbiased. You claimed you were "shunned" by the community because some people didnt agree with you trying to get gimmicks incorporated into the Litecoin code base (which again would require a hard fork, which I again have addressed). And you have some sort of feud with smoothie, which im not touching with a 100 foot pole because thats between you and him.

All in all good post and I appreciate the time you put into this. But this is really nothing that I have not seen nor addressed before. I took extra time in addressing you because you put a tremendous amount of non-trolling effort into this.

As for your last few comments, you are really doing you family and friends a disservice by not getting them involved with LTC. The coin itself will increase in value BUT more importantly it can and will be used as an alternate form of currency to fiat, as Bitcoin is meant too.

I hope that some of my comments have made you have a change of heart. You know that I personally work very hard for LTC and cryptos, and this infighting of coins does NOTHING for all of us at all.

[smoothie]

Where did I ever claim your donations were bribes or that you were trying to bribe the developers? Dont put words in my mouth. Thanks  

Please post a link to where I say that. Thanks. Otherwise stfu please.  

I linked to the thread on Litecointalk in my post refuting the things you said about me. Actually, someone else brought it up that they thought I was trying to bribe the Litecoin developers, and you more or less agreed with them. You even took it a few steps further and explained to everyone how awesome you are and how much money you donated and never asked for anything in return, insinuating that I was trying to bribe them. Sometimes you need to read between the lines of your posts for the "thinly veiled insults" I keep referring to, but I am sure that they are there and intentional. I am not making that up, as it happens repeatedly.

Coinhoarder nice try but you still haven't linked me to exactly where I said what you claim. Which if you can't makes you a liar.

Good job attempting to put words in my mouth. I won't stand for it. So please STFU if you can't prove your claim. Thanks  

FYI reading between the lines =/= something I actually said.

Reading between the lines == interpretation of what I said (which isn't necessarily what I said).

[mymenace]

sorry just had to

[smoothie]

Well some of those claims you say have been made I do not believe were made by me. So thanks again for lumping me in with the rest of them. lol

If you read my post again I said you never said "doesn't exactly say it will lose its #2 spot" in your comment. But now that you clarified that I'll accept it as a valid prediction with no wiggle room. We will revisit this in 2 years 

Some of being the key word. You are still spewing a lot of not completely thought through arguments, so you should be lumped in this "the other guys."

Like?

And be specific because lumping me in with them would not be a honest evaluation of my stance on Litecoin.

Of all the things you claimed in your OP that LTC supporters claim, I have never claimed any of those that I can remember.

Please refute me with facts/links of where I made claims that aren't thought out and are in the same category of those you keep pointing out in your OP and not just "I know you said it so I know it is true."

[CoinHoarder]

Where did I ever claim your donations were bribes or that you were trying to bribe the developers? Dont put words in my mouth. Thanks  

Please post a link to where I say that. Thanks. Otherwise stfu please.  

I linked to the thread on Litecointalk in my post refuting the things you said about me. Actually, someone else brought it up that they thought I was trying to bribe the Litecoin developers, and you more or less agreed with them. You even took it a few steps further and explained to everyone how awesome you are and how much money you donated and never asked for anything in return, insinuating that I was trying to bribe them. Sometimes you need to read between the lines of your posts for the "thinly veiled insults" I keep referring to, but I am sure that they are there and intentional. I am not making that up, as it happens repeatedly.

Coinhoarder nice try but you still haven't linked me to exactly where I said what you claim. Which if you can't makes you a liar.

Good job attempting to put words in my mouth. I won't stand for it. So please STFU if you can't prove your claim. Thanks  

FYI reading between the lines =/= something I actually said.

Reading between the lines == interpretation of what I said (which isn't necessarily what I said).

I'm not putting words in your mouth, everyone can go read it. https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=18586.msg166156#msg166156

This is done in your usual style that you don't actually say the mean things about me, but you insinuate that they are true. If you didn't believe that I wasn't trying to bribe the developers, then why would you say the following and not something like "umm.. I don't think he was trying to bribe the developers"

Typical Smoothie.

Here is exactly what you said:

So back to my original point, Coinhoarder and anyone else who feels they need to leave is welcome to, but it is hard not to notice how easily he gave up and took his ball and went home.

Smoothie, if the amount of money he is said to have raised is true, it hardly can be said he did not at least give it a try.  I think you are selling him rather short here...  and I still support litecoin.

Just because he raised a few thousand dollars does not mean he should have the ability to dictate the development of Litecoin. As I've already indicated I raised 1000 LTC and donated it to the LTC developers with no expectations but rather as just a form of support to their efforts to keep the Litecoin protocol secure.

In the end, no one dictates litecoin, the OVERALL NETWORK does.

Coinhoarder made the mistake of running away at the first sign of opposition to his goals. If he really wanted development done in a particular direction he should have taken the funds and put them towards developing the exact items he wanted to see (supposedly via developers that are willing to build what he wants). In this case it wouldn't be a "donation" but rather payment for said development, of which is worlds apart from what he did by donating to the LTC development team.

Remember donations to any development are not a right to dictate the outcome of the development process. That is why they are called donations.

If I am not mistaken this is what Goat/TheLitecoinFoundation (user) did when approaching the LTC dev team to send "donations". I believe Warren mentioned this to me several months ago.

I am not in support of this type of action. Sounds more like LOBBYING rather than donating.

[devphp]

wow, such walls of text, much action

[CoinHoarder]

Well some of those claims you say have been made I do not believe were made by me. So thanks again for lumping me in with the rest of them. lol

If you read my post again I said you never said "doesn't exactly say it will lose its #2 spot" in your comment. But now that you clarified that I'll accept it as a valid prediction with no wiggle room. We will revisit this in 2 years  

Some of being the key word. You are still spewing a lot of not completely thought through arguments, so you should be lumped in this "the other guys."

Like?

And be specific because lumping me in with them would not be a honest evaluation of my stance on Litecoin.

Of all the things you claimed in your OP that LTC supporters claim, I have never claimed any of those that I can remember.

Please refute me with facts/links of where I made claims that aren't thought out and are in the same category of those you keep pointing out in your OP and not just "I know you said it so I know it is true."

Did you not read the post I just spent a hour typing? I'm not going to go through your posts and find everytime you talked about Litecoin... as that would take the rest of my life.

Why don't you instead tell me why you think Litecoin will stay the #2 crypto currency for years to come and then we'll go from there.

[mymenace]

sorry just had to

this image is cracking me up

[CoinHoarder]

sorry just had to

this image is cracking me up

Lol, is that Jimmy Fallon?

[mymenace]

Well some of those claims you say have been made I do not believe were made by me. So thanks again for lumping me in with the rest of them. lol

If you read my post again I said you never said "doesn't exactly say it will lose its #2 spot" in your comment. But now that you clarified that I'll accept it as a valid prediction with no wiggle room. We will revisit this in 2 years  

Some of being the key word. You are still spewing a lot of not completely thought through arguments, so you should be lumped in this "the other guys."

Like?

And be specific because lumping me in with them would not be a honest evaluation of my stance on Litecoin.

Of all the things you claimed in your OP that LTC supporters claim, I have never claimed any of those that I can remember.

Please refute me with facts/links of where I made claims that aren't thought out and are in the same category of those you keep pointing out in your OP and not just "I know you said it so I know it is true."

Did you not read the post I just spent a hour typing? I'm not going to go through your posts and find everytime you talked about Litecoin... as that would take the rest of my life.

Why don't you instead tell me why you think Litecoin will stay the #2 crypto currency for years to come and then we'll go from there.

this and only this

lets understand marketing

infrastructure is the key for investors and businesses to adopt a coin

I run a business and as yet my customers do not understand crypto

If i was to offer them crypto i would select a coin that has a strong infrastructure and investors


btc and ltc both have enterprises supporting this, why is there asic machines on sale if the market was not there, why is there atm's being built if the markets not there

please provide me with another coin that has the infrastructure to support my customers cash exchange and a network that is very hard to fall down like other altcoins have after a few months

this

[mymenace]

sorry just had to

this image is cracking me up

Lol, is that Jimmy Fallon?

no idea who this is sure is funny

[mymenace]

Great arguments by both sides today I say we go to a poll

[CoinHoarder]

lets understand marketing

infrastructure is the key for investors and businesses to adopt a coin

I run a business and as yet my customers do not understand crypto

If i was to offer them crypto i would select a coin that has a strong infrastructure and investors


btc and ltc both have enterprises supporting this, why is there asic machines on sale if the market was not there, why is there atm's being built if the markets not there

That is a good reason to support Litecoin/Bitcoin right now, I concur. However, if you don't believe that will change over time and the infrastructure and investors won't show up for more innovative and forward thinking currencies, then I feel like you will be proven wrong for reason's I've already stated such as multi coin payment processors becoming the norm and investor money is flowing into these new projects much more so than money in flowing into Litecoin. As you can see here: http://swarmcorp.com/ and here: http://www1.agsexplorer.com/

I'm not talking about today, I'm talking about 1 to 2 years from now.

I would be surprised if the volume done on a Litecoin ATM would pay for the cost of the ATM. Litecoin ATMs are totally uneccessary at this point, and they will never become popular unless Litecoin is integrated with Bitcoin ATMs. If you think the world will be filled with Litecoin ATMs, then I have a bridge to sell you.

please provide me with another coin that has the infrastructure to support my customers cash exchange and a network that is very hard to fall down like other altcoins have after a few months

It doesn't really matter because on exchanges like Cryptsy you can automatically convert any coin you want to Bitcoin or Litecoin. This is part of the reason Litecoin's volume is a misrepresentation of what's actually going on, because it is used as a trading pair for worthless crypto currencies. Any alternative coin that is worth its weight has not fallen on its face after a few months. You just need to do a better job at picking alternative coins IMO. Yes, there have been a lot of worthless pump and dump coins that fall on there face after a few months, but the innovative ones are still very much alive and thriving, even though some have lost a bit of value since their peak... so have all crypto currencies at this point in time. Most of the INNOVATIVE currencies are still somewhere around the top 10 in market cap.. I wouldn't call this "falling on your face." There is a big difference as I stated earlier in between innovation and gimmicky innovation.

[smoothie]

Where did I ever claim your donations were bribes or that you were trying to bribe the developers? Dont put words in my mouth. Thanks  

Please post a link to where I say that. Thanks. Otherwise stfu please.  

I linked to the thread on Litecointalk in my post refuting the things you said about me. Actually, someone else brought it up that they thought I was trying to bribe the Litecoin developers, and you more or less agreed with them. You even took it a few steps further and explained to everyone how awesome you are and how much money you donated and never asked for anything in return, insinuating that I was trying to bribe them. Sometimes you need to read between the lines of your posts for the "thinly veiled insults" I keep referring to, but I am sure that they are there and intentional. I am not making that up, as it happens repeatedly.

Coinhoarder nice try but you still haven't linked me to exactly where I said what you claim. Which if you can't makes you a liar.

Good job attempting to put words in my mouth. I won't stand for it. So please STFU if you can't prove your claim. Thanks  

FYI reading between the lines =/= something I actually said.

Reading between the lines == interpretation of what I said (which isn't necessarily what I said).

I'm not putting words in your mouth, everyone can go read it. https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=18586.msg166156#msg166156

This is done in your usual style that you don't actually say the mean things about me, but you insinuate that they are true. If you didn't believe that I wasn't trying to bribe the developers, then why would you say the following and not something like "umm.. I don't think he was trying to bribe the developers"

Typical Smoothie.

Here is exactly what you said:

So back to my original point, Coinhoarder and anyone else who feels they need to leave is welcome to, but it is hard not to notice how easily he gave up and took his ball and went home.

Smoothie, if the amount of money he is said to have raised is true, it hardly can be said he did not at least give it a try.  I think you are selling him rather short here...  and I still support litecoin.

Just because he raised a few thousand dollars does not mean he should have the ability to dictate the development of Litecoin. As I've already indicated I raised 1000 LTC and donated it to the LTC developers with no expectations but rather as just a form of support to their efforts to keep the Litecoin protocol secure.

In the end, no one dictates litecoin, the OVERALL NETWORK does.

Coinhoarder made the mistake of running away at the first sign of opposition to his goals. If he really wanted development done in a particular direction he should have taken the funds and put them towards developing the exact items he wanted to see (supposedly via developers that are willing to build what he wants). In this case it wouldn't be a "donation" but rather payment for said development, of which is worlds apart from what he did by donating to the LTC development team.

Remember donations to any development are not a right to dictate the outcome of the development process. That is why they are called donations.

If I am not mistaken this is what Goat/TheLitecoinFoundation (user) did when approaching the LTC dev team to send "donations". I believe Warren mentioned this to me several months ago.

I am not in support of this type of action. Sounds more like LOBBYING rather than donating.

1. I never said you bribed anyone. Which proves your initial claim that I said you were bribing the Litecoin development team as false.

2. My post there was in context response to someone saying I was selling you short on why you left and his justification was that you raised money to donate to the litecoin development team.

3. You yourself even TOUTED that fact (you donated) as if that was some sort of justification on being heard and having a say in the litecoin protocol changes.

How many times have you brought up the fact that you donated LTC to the Litecoin development team while in the same post/paragraph talking about how they did not listen to you and that your ideas fell on deaf ears etc?

lol I just had a funny thought of your OP where you were crying about how Charlie ignored you and that he didn't give you the amount of attention/feedback/whatever you were expecting. lol So funny. Makes you sound like a little baby. Not that you are one. But we can let others decide for themselves what they perceive you as.

Personally I perceive you as a person who over promises and under delivers and whines and cries when any opposition comes your way. Not to mention likes to interpret what I post as one thing when clearly what I said was not what you claimed.

You do like to play the victim. Nice try but I don't fall for that BS.

[smoothie]

Well some of those claims you say have been made I do not believe were made by me. So thanks again for lumping me in with the rest of them. lol

If you read my post again I said you never said "doesn't exactly say it will lose its #2 spot" in your comment. But now that you clarified that I'll accept it as a valid prediction with no wiggle room. We will revisit this in 2 years  

Some of being the key word. You are still spewing a lot of not completely thought through arguments, so you should be lumped in this "the other guys."

Like?

And be specific because lumping me in with them would not be a honest evaluation of my stance on Litecoin.

Of all the things you claimed in your OP that LTC supporters claim, I have never claimed any of those that I can remember.

Please refute me with facts/links of where I made claims that aren't thought out and are in the same category of those you keep pointing out in your OP and not just "I know you said it so I know it is true."

Did you not read the post I just spent a hour typing? I'm not going to go through your posts and find everytime you talked about Litecoin... as that would take the rest of my life.

Why don't you instead tell me why you think Litecoin will stay the #2 crypto currency for years to come and then we'll go from there.

No I would rather you show me where I am "spewing a lot of not completely thought through arguments".

[CoinHoarder]

1. I never said you bribed anyone. Which proves your initial claim that I said you were bribing the Litecoin development team as false.

2. My post there was in context response to someone saying I was selling you short on why you left and his justification was that you raised money to donate to the litecoin development team.

3. You yourself even TOUTED that fact (you donated) as if that was some sort of justification on being heard and having a say in the litecoin protocol changes.

How many times have you brought up the fact that you donated LTC to the Litecoin development team while in the same post/paragraph talking about how they did not listen to you and that your ideas fell on deaf ears etc?

lol I just had a funny thought of your OP where you were crying about how Charlie ignored you and that he didn't give you the amount of attention/feedback/whatever you were expecting. lol So funny. Makes you sound like a little baby. Not that you are one. But we can let others decide for themselves what they perceive you as.

Personally I perceive you as a person who over promises and under delivers and whines and cries when any opposition comes your way. Not to mention likes to interpret what I post as one thing when clearly what I said was not what you claimed.

You do like to play the victim. Nice try but I don't fall for that BS.

Personally I perceive you as someone that is very mean spirited, someone that likes to tell the world how horrible of a person I am, a stalker, and someone who changes the topic of the conversation when it doesn't fit inside their argument. So again Smoothie for the 10th time, why will Litecoin remain #2 for years to come? Do enlighten me... the fact that you keep shifting the topic of conversation tells me that you don't have any good reasons.

[smoothie]

CH to be clear so you don't waste time catching up, I never claimed LTC will be here as #2 crypto for years to come.

In fact I'm of the opinion I would rather see how things turn out than try to debate this as no one can actually predict the future 100% anyway.

It is pointless and a waste of time. Much like the majority of your OP was bitching and whining about how you felt someone or some group of people treated you wrong.

Stop crying and grow up.  

[CoinHoarder]

CH to be clear so you don't waste time catching up, I never claimed LTC will be here as #2 crypto for years to come.

In fact I'm of the opinion I would rather see how things turn out than try to debate this as no one can actually predict the future 100% anyway.

It is pointless and a waste of time. Much like the majority of your OP was bitching and whining about how you felt someone or some group of people treated you wrong.

Stop crying and grow up.  

You repeatedly resort to personal attacks when I am trying to have an honest debate. Typical Smoothie.

It is obvious to me that you can't really articulate your support for Litecoin, because you know that I would tear your arguments apart and you don't want to be embarrassed publicly like that. You can never be wrong can you Smoothie?

[smoothie]

1. I never said you bribed anyone. Which proves your initial claim that I said you were bribing the Litecoin development team as false.

2. My post there was in context response to someone saying I was selling you short on why you left and his justification was that you raised money to donate to the litecoin development team.

3. You yourself even TOUTED that fact (you donated) as if that was some sort of justification on being heard and having a say in the litecoin protocol changes.

How many times have you brought up the fact that you donated LTC to the Litecoin development team while in the same post/paragraph talking about how they did not listen to you and that your ideas fell on deaf ears etc?

lol I just had a funny thought of your OP where you were crying about how Charlie ignored you and that he didn't give you the amount of attention/feedback/whatever you were expecting. lol So funny. Makes you sound like a little baby. Not that you are one. But we can let others decide for themselves what they perceive you as.

Personally I perceive you as a person who over promises and under delivers and whines and cries when any opposition comes your way. Not to mention likes to interpret what I post as one thing when clearly what I said was not what you claimed.

You do like to play the victim. Nice try but I don't fall for that BS.

Personally I perceive you as someone that is very mean spirited, someone that likes to tell the world how horrible of a person I am, a stalker, and someone who changes the topic of the conversation when it doesn't fit inside their argument. So again Smoothie for the 10th time, why will Litecoin remain #2 for years to come? Do enlighten me... the fact that you keep shifting the topic of conversation tells me that you don't have any good reasons.

lol You are entitled to your opinion of me. You won't see me cry about it.

But I still think your view is warped of me lol.

Stalker? No more like an honest troll who likes to call people out for their bullshit.

You don't like me posting where you post? Do it on a non-public forum or medium that way you can have your privacy. Otherwise suck it up and stop whining.

If you remember I supported you while you were gone (MIA) and your hardware customers were lost on what was up with you. Yet you still claimed I attacked you. You cost them mining time and all you could say was "sorry" and sent them extra cables and a few small things to attempt to build a bridge with a toothpick.

I merely called it how I saw it and gave you the benefit of the doubt (prior to your return) which I linked you to. Of course that doesn't matter what matters is that taking attention off of your failures and putting the light on me is the best way to avoid your faults.

Even asking a question got you all riled up on your BTC design bounty. Good lord how touchy you have become.  

Read my last post above where I explain my stance on LTC being #2 in the next years.

[smoothie]

CH to be clear so you don't waste time catching up, I never claimed LTC will be here as #2 crypto for years to come.

In fact I'm of the opinion I would rather see how things turn out than try to debate this as no one can actually predict the future 100% anyway.

It is pointless and a waste of time. Much like the majority of your OP was bitching and whining about how you felt someone or some group of people treated you wrong.

Stop crying and grow up.  

You repeatedly resort to personal attacks when I am trying to have an honest debate. Typical Smoothie.

It is obvious to me that you can't really articulate your support for Litecoin, because you know that I would tear your arguments apart and you don't want to be embarrassed publicly like that. You can never be wrong can you Smoothie?

How can I be wrong if I never claimed anything? Please rip that apart.

You just wish you could get even with me as it appears you have some sort of whiney vendetta against me.

[CoinHoarder]

CH to be clear so you don't waste time catching up, I never claimed LTC will be here as #2 crypto for years to come.

In fact I'm of the opinion I would rather see how things turn out than try to debate this as no one can actually predict the future 100% anyway.

It is pointless and a waste of time. Much like the majority of your OP was bitching and whining about how you felt someone or some group of people treated you wrong.

Stop crying and grow up.  

You repeatedly resort to personal attacks when I am trying to have an honest debate. Typical Smoothie.

It is obvious to me that you can't really articulate your support for Litecoin, because you know that I would tear your arguments apart and you don't want to be embarrassed publicly like that. You can never be wrong can you Smoothie?

How can I be wrong if I never claimed anything? Please rip that apart.

You just wish you could get even with me as it appears you have some sort of whiney vendetta against me.

You're fooling yourself if you think you don't have some sort of whiney vendetta against me as well, I am simply defending myself. There is a fine line in between defending myself and having a "whiney" (which is not a word by the way, grammar king... death vs irrelevance) vendetta.

I don't like you because of one thing you've done to me, it is the culmination of things you've done to me and said about me over the years. You are always the first to start some bullshit argument with me and point out to everyone how horrible I am. This is not all in my head, as you have repeatedly done this to me over and over again.

Exactly, you can't be wrong if you never claim anything, and that is why you are not claiming anything. You "don't have the time" to explain why, yet you have the time to argue about pointless shit like this. What a hypocrite.

[smoothie]

CH to be clear so you don't waste time catching up, I never claimed LTC will be here as #2 crypto for years to come.

In fact I'm of the opinion I would rather see how things turn out than try to debate this as no one can actually predict the future 100% anyway.

It is pointless and a waste of time. Much like the majority of your OP was bitching and whining about how you felt someone or some group of people treated you wrong.

Stop crying and grow up.  

You repeatedly resort to personal attacks when I am trying to have an honest debate. Typical Smoothie.

It is obvious to me that you can't really articulate your support for Litecoin, because you know that I would tear your arguments apart and you don't want to be embarrassed publicly like that. You can never be wrong can you Smoothie?

How can I be wrong if I never claimed anything? Please rip that apart.

You just wish you could get even with me as it appears you have some sort of whiney vendetta against me.

You're fooling yourself if you think you don't have some sort of whiney vendetta against me as well, I am simply defending myself. There is a fine line in between defending myself and having a "whiney" (which is not a word by the way, grammar king... death vs irrelevance) vendetta.

Exactly, you can't be wrong if you never claim anything, and that is why you are not claiming anything. You "don't have the time" to explain why, yet you have the time to argue about pointless shit like this. What a hypocrite.

LOL I'm just here defending myself just like you do as well as pointing out bullshit when I see it. Lots of it in this thread from your posts.

Fair is fair right? lol  

You obviously didn't like the fact that I chose to remain on the sidelines on my commenting in the future of LTC and where it will be. Honestly I don't care if it is #2. The fact that cryptocurrecy is alive and well and the genie is out of the bottle and I am a part of the movement is what matters to me the most.

Obviously your focus here is on LTC.

If LTC succeeds great...if it doesn't then im sure something worth while will if Bitcoin is somehow unseated as #1.

[CoinHoarder]

LOL I'm just here defending myself just like you do.

Fair is far right? lol 

You obviously didn't like the fact that I chose to remain on the sidelines on my commenting in the future of LTC and where it will be. Honestly I don't care if it is #2. The fact that cryptocurrecy is alive and well and the genie is out of the bottle and I am a part of the movement is what matters to me the most.

Obviously your focus here is on LTC...which is lol..

This thread wasn't about you Smoothie, it was about Litecoin and why I made the decision not to support it anymore. You came in here throwing around personal insults and made it about you, that is not my fault.

Yes, obviously my focus here is LTC, as stated in the thread title and the OP. That is how forums work.. the topic of conversation is normally aligned with the thread title and the OP. You are the one that has derailed the thread. If you notice before you came along I was having a healthy debate with members of the community about Litecoin. We weren't debating about Smoothie.

[smoothie]

LOL I'm just here defending myself just like you do.

Fair is far right? lol  

You obviously didn't like the fact that I chose to remain on the sidelines on my commenting in the future of LTC and where it will be. Honestly I don't care if it is #2. The fact that cryptocurrecy is alive and well and the genie is out of the bottle and I am a part of the movement is what matters to me the most.

Obviously your focus here is on LTC...which is lol..

This thread wasn't about you Smoothie, it was about Litecoin and why I made the decision not to support it anymore. You came in here throwing around personal insults and made it about you, that is not my fault.

Yes, obviously my focus here is LTC, as stated in the thread title and the OP. That is how forums work.. the topic of conversation is normally aligned with the thread title and the OP. You are the one that has derailed the thread. If you notice before you came along I was having a healthy debate with members of the community about Litecoin. We weren't debating about Smoothie.

LOL you missed the part about where I said was here to call out bullshit (which by my reputation on this forum should be obvious)...the defending myself came after that as obviously you ended up bringing up a bunch of things about me which I then defended.

Whining about others not hearing you out and "ignoring" you or whatever is bullshit along with a bunch of other things you put in your OP. I agreed with a point or two but that was about it as most of your post was "pity me" themed.

[smoothie]

I've made my stance on the OP known. Jousting with CH is an endless argument much like I tend to have with Goat.

You guys aren't brothers are you?

[CoinHoarder]

thanks for this well reasoned post.  

do you feel the added security of the litecoin blockchain with new asics on the way will prolong the life of litecoin, or accelerate its demise?

It's hard to say. I feel like in the long run it will be a bad thing, but the effects of the centralization of Bitcoin/Litecoin mining won't be felt for some time. As corporations, old money, and old money FIAT take over mining, the affects will start to show. At that point they are no longer decentralized currencies, it is moving that way already.

I think Litecoin will remain number 2 through at least the end of the year and possibly next year too. However, things are moving so quickly that it is completely possible that its demise could happen sooner rather than later. I think Bitcoin will be much harder to topple than Litecoin.

what I find odd is you already publicly declared you no longer support litecoin yet you still want to talk about it as if it matters.

 

insult #1, done in your usual satirical style... I still hadn't responded to any of your posts.

So why is it the few nxt fanbois constantly trolling the forum are the ones so concerned about litecoin's future  

First of all, I am not a Nxt fan boi. I haven't decided which crypto will be the next one I support apart from Bitcoin, but I am leaning towards Counterparty, Mastercoin, Bitshares AGS, Swarm, Ethereum, or Maidsafe. Possibly Nxt too, although they have some trolls (which coin doesn't), they are doing some interesting and innovative things... the initial distribution is kind of a put off to me though. However, to be fair to them... everyone had a chance to invest and didn't.. that is not their fault.

Secondly, I think the Litecoiners are getting scared. They are getting more organized and are doing more projects recently than ever before. I think most of them can see the writing on the wall and are trying to "right the ship" so to speak. Not only have the Litecoin "haters" been more vocal as of late (which is totally understandable due to the points I've outlined ITT), but the Litecoin supporters are also being more vocal because their throne is being challenged. They are even sending people over here from their forums to try and prove me wrong: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=20631.0

You think.

So you are just speculating.

Got it.

I'm a litecoin supporter and no I am not scared nor have I gotten the notion that the community for LTC is scared as well.

Anyone can go back into CH's post history on this forum and the Litecointalk.org forum and see how much Coinhoarder is butthurt. For what real reason I can't say for sure but what I do know is he tried to get the LTC devs to make certain changes to the LTC protocol and it fell upon deaf ears so he took his ball and went home crying.

Now he is here still talking about LTC even though he claims it will die. And instead of just seeing if his prediction is true and let it be he is still talking about LTC which is keeping it alive.

As long as people are talking about LTC or trading it or mining it...it isn't dead in my view.

insult #2 and #3, I still hadn't replied to you at the time.

I see value in some other alternative coins, and I even think some of them have a large chance to overtake Litecoin as people slowly realize that Litecoin is just one big marketing campaign. If your investment strategy is to look at coinmarketcap and choose the coins with the biggest market cap, then I don't feel like that is a smart investment. According to you, this is how "smart money" operates. However, I think the "even smarter money" does extensive research on all coins that are available and the ones in development, and then comes to a proper decision as to what they will put their money in. After doing this myself I have come to the conclusion that "smart money" isn't actually so smart afterall.

why should people listen to you who have been unsuccessful in your investments?

Are you part of the smart money crowd or are you not and just posturing to make people who are in the "smart money" crowd feel inferior with no basis for your claims but just "I think it is" and "I have come to the conclusion..."??

You can't preach on the topic of smart money if you yourself have not lived it and actually done it yourself.

It's like you preaching about marriage when you are divorced in your own personal life. It doesn't work as you are now disqualified as someone to speak on it and have any actual impact on the topic if your own track record proves to be the on the opposite spectrum of what you are discussing.

insult #4, I still hadn't replied to you at the time... this whole post is an insult.

Yeah Smoothie... I totally started this.  

[smoothie]

thanks for this well reasoned post.  

do you feel the added security of the litecoin blockchain with new asics on the way will prolong the life of litecoin, or accelerate its demise?

It's hard to say. I feel like in the long run it will be a bad thing, but the effects of the centralization of Bitcoin/Litecoin mining won't be felt for some time. As corporations, old money, and old money FIAT take over mining, the affects will start to show. At that point they are no longer decentralized currencies, it is moving that way already.

I think Litecoin will remain number 2 through at least the end of the year and possibly next year too. However, things are moving so quickly that it is completely possible that its demise could happen sooner rather than later. I think Bitcoin will be much harder to topple than Litecoin.

what I find odd is you already publicly declared you no longer support litecoin yet you still want to talk about it as if it matters.

 

insult #1, done in your usual satirical style... I still hadn't responded to any of your posts.

So why is it the few nxt fanbois constantly trolling the forum are the ones so concerned about litecoin's future  

First of all, I am not a Nxt fan boi. I haven't decided which crypto will be the next one I support apart from Bitcoin, but I am leaning towards Counterparty, Mastercoin, Bitshares AGS, Swarm, Ethereum, or Maidsafe. Possibly Nxt too, although they have some trolls (which coin doesn't), they are doing some interesting and innovative things... the initial distribution is kind of a put off to me though. However, to be fair to them... everyone had a chance to invest and didn't.. that is not their fault.

Secondly, I think the Litecoiners are getting scared. They are getting more organized and are doing more projects recently than ever before. I think most of them can see the writing on the wall and are trying to "right the ship" so to speak. Not only have the Litecoin "haters" been more vocal as of late (which is totally understandable due to the points I've outlined ITT), but the Litecoin supporters are also being more vocal because their throne is being challenged. They are even sending people over here from their forums to try and prove me wrong: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=20631.0

You think.

So you are just speculating.

Got it.

I'm a litecoin supporter and no I am not scared nor have I gotten the notion that the community for LTC is scared as well.

Anyone can go back into CH's post history on this forum and the Litecointalk.org forum and see how much Coinhoarder is butthurt. For what real reason I can't say for sure but what I do know is he tried to get the LTC devs to make certain changes to the LTC protocol and it fell upon deaf ears so he took his ball and went home crying.

Now he is here still talking about LTC even though he claims it will die. And instead of just seeing if his prediction is true and let it be he is still talking about LTC which is keeping it alive.

As long as people are talking about LTC or trading it or mining it...it isn't dead in my view.

insult #2 and #3, I still hadn't replied to you at the time.

I see value in some other alternative coins, and I even think some of them have a large chance to overtake Litecoin as people slowly realize that Litecoin is just one big marketing campaign. If your investment strategy is to look at coinmarketcap and choose the coins with the biggest market cap, then I don't feel like that is a smart investment. According to you, this is how "smart money" operates. However, I think the "even smarter money" does extensive research on all coins that are available and the ones in development, and then comes to a proper decision as to what they will put their money in. After doing this myself I have come to the conclusion that "smart money" isn't actually so smart afterall.

why should people listen to you who have been unsuccessful in your investments?

Are you part of the smart money crowd or are you not and just posturing to make people who are in the "smart money" crowd feel inferior with no basis for your claims but just "I think it is" and "I have come to the conclusion..."??

You can't preach on the topic of smart money if you yourself have not lived it and actually done it yourself.

It's like you preaching about marriage when you are divorced in your own personal life. It doesn't work as you are now disqualified as someone to speak on it and have any actual impact on the topic if your own track record proves to be the on the opposite spectrum of what you are discussing.

insult #4, I still hadn't replied to you at the time... this whole post is an insult.

Yeah Smoothie... I totally started this.  

Tell me this:

How is it an insult if it is true?

[CoinHoarder]

Tell me this:

How is it an insult if it is true?

Perhaps you need to learn the definition of the word insult.

[smoothie]

Seems that if I point out something CH doesn't want pointed out...it is an insult.

The butthurt and crying part are my perspective of what you did.

Never did I name call so I can hardly see how it is an insult if what I am claiming is true.

 

[smoothie]

in·sult
verb
inˈsəlt/
1.
speak to or treat with disrespect or scornful abuse.


Where did I disrespect you by giving you my view of what you did? It is an honest view. Don't like it? Cry more please. 

[smoothie]

This is usually what people who play the victim do. They grasp at straws to find any reason for people to see the wrong in the other party even if what was said was in fact true and honest.

[kelsey]

In no certain order... Counterparty, Mastercoin, Bitshares, Bitshares AGS, Swarm, Ethereum, Nxt, Maidsafe, Monero, and Zerocash. I am still deciding, but there's no reason why I couldn't support a few or all of these projects.. they are all much more interesting to me than Litecoin ever was. I am sure I'm forgetting a few too.. there are so many awesome new coins coming out.

Thats one of the reasons litecoin will still stay strong, too many other alts competing with each other, I've researched all of the above yet to find anything that isn't extremely flawed nor any innovation thats a real innovation. (btw not saying btc and ltc don't have there flaws, its my thinking that they are the best by far of a bad bunch).

[CoinHoarder]

in·sult
verb
inˈsəlt/
1.
speak to or treat with disrespect or scornful abuse.


Where did I disrespect you by giving you my view of what you did? It is an honest view. Don't like it? Cry more please.  

You're getting more ridiculous with each post. Everyone here knows what an insult is, thank you. The only one that doesn't understand the definition of the word insult is you. I know you realized those were insults, but this is just further evidence that in your mind you are never wrong.

Smoothie, it's time for an English lesson:

Whether something is true or not doesn't have any affect as to whether it is an insult or not.

Do you go up to fat girls and say "hey girl you're fat"?

That wouldn't be an insult, right? Because it's true?

[smoothie]

Tell me this:

How is it an insult if it is true?

Perhaps you need to learn the definition of the word insult.

An insult is directed towards disrespect. If all I did was speak truth then to me there was no disrespect.

If you took at it as disrespect then of course now you can play the victim game in your perception. Have at it.

[smoothie]

in·sult
verb
inˈsəlt/
1.
speak to or treat with disrespect or scornful abuse.


Where did I disrespect you by giving you my view of what you did? It is an honest view. Don't like it? Cry more please.  

You're getting more ridiculous with each post. Everyone here knows what an insult is, thank you. The only one that doesn't understand the definition of the word insult is you. I know you realized those were insults, but this is just further evidence that in your mind you are never wrong.

Whether something is true or not doesn't have any affect as to whether it is an insult or not.

Do you go up to fat girls and say "hey girl you're fat"?

That wouldn't be an insult, right? Because it's true?

LOL the insult is in the beholder of the offense being taken. I was speaking truthfully. Whether you were insulted is up to you to decide. But don't make it my problem.

I guess you aren't very thick skinned.

The perception of an insult is objective to the one taking offense (you), which I can't control.

I didn't mean you any disrespect but hey if you want to hang on to it have at it. No one is stopping you.

[CoinHoarder]

In no certain order... Counterparty, Mastercoin, Bitshares, Bitshares AGS, Swarm, Ethereum, Nxt, Maidsafe, Monero, and Zerocash. I am still deciding, but there's no reason why I couldn't support a few or all of these projects.. they are all much more interesting to me than Litecoin ever was. I am sure I'm forgetting a few too.. there are so many awesome new coins coming out.

Thats one of the reasons litecoin will still stay strong, too many other alts competing with each other, I've researched all of the above yet to find anything that isn't extremely flawed nor any innovation thats a real innovation. (btw not saying btc and ltc don't have there flaws, its my thinking that they are the best by far of a bad bunch).

If you don't see innovation in those crypto currencies (well.. maybe not Counterparty since it is similar to Mastercoin), then I don't know what to say to you apart from you need to take a closer look at them.

[CoinHoarder]

Smoothie, this is the last thing I'll say to you. I know you always like to have the last word and prove me wrong in the final statements of our arguments, so I will let you have that privilege.

If you ever want to debate the reasons you support Litecoin, then door is always open. It's trolls like you why all these anti Litecoin threads are made to be self moderated. I haven't ever made a self moderated thread once in my life, as I am not ashamed and I know that I have a point here. Unfortunately, you don't want to talk about the subject at hand and can only insult me. That is not my fault, I tried to have an earnest debate with you, and you refused to do so. You look like a clown skating around the topic at hand with as many different ways you can think of to take the conversion off topic.

Cya buddy

[smoothie]

In case you missed it and were distracted with trying to prove me "wrong" or whatever lol:

Wow, you certainly did promise a long write up. I am impressed (and not being sarcastic either)!

Coinhoarder, as you know i've personally never had anything against you or any other community member at all. But im sure you can expect a reply from me as well hehe. You took a long time to post this, and deserve and equal length and thought in a response .

I know there are a lot of threads for this already, but I wanted to start a new one as I felt the past ones did not give thorough reasons, and were somewhat trollish in nature. I have been a hardcore Litecoin supporter for the past couple years, and I do not think it is going away anytime soon. I am trying to think more long term than that, and Litecoin seems poised to die a slow death if it continues down the same path. The onslaught of copy and paste coins, followed by the onslaught of innovative coins, has changed the way I think about Litecoin. I can no longer recommend it as a good investment at this point in time. I have lobbied for Litecoin harder than even Bitcoin, and my decision to no longer support Litecoin was not an easy one. This post will be brushed aside as FUD or as me being a “hater”, but I hope you read what I have to say and think about the points I bring up, I assure you I have thought long and hard about them.

First of all, I congratulate you for posting something good to read rather than "Litecoin is dead cause I say it is" that I see from the normal trolls .

I feel like the argument that “Litecoin has the best development team” is quite disrespectful to the many other talented and devoted developers of other alt coins. You might as well call them all idiots. In fact, there are many developers that are going above and beyond what the Litecoin developers are doing. Litecoin has decided that it is content to simply follow in the steps of Bitcoin, something I tried hard to lobby against. Litecoin is merely developing things that Bitcoin has already made, such as Electrum and Android wallets. I will give them (well… Warren) a bit of credit for improving some security issues on both Litecoin and Bitcoin, but they do not see the glaring issue in that the end users don’t actually ever see these improvements. Nor do they particularly care… what I mean by that is… Have any of you ever had a problem because of a security issue in the Litecoin/Bitcoin client? I would be surprised to hear one person tell me yes they have, as after using it for years I haven’t and most cases that pop up seem to be user error.

While I personally feel that Litecoin has some of the best and the brightest, I certainly do not doubt the efforts and skills of other developers at all. There are a many of them that are talented and at first glance a few of them really want to try to make improvements upon this young moment (i.e cryptos).

With your second part you seem to contradict your statements. At first you congratulate the LTC dev team for making improvements with security and in the same breath mention that you never heard of security issues and therefore end users dont care. Come on man.....if there were any serious security issues with the BTC or LTC clients then it would be a huge issue with the entire crypto movement. Security at this point in the game is the number one item that needs to be taken care of more than anything else. I would like to use an analogy that if there was any serious security issues with a bank (like if a bank was robbed) and there was no FDIC to fall abck on, peoples money would be truly lost. Therefore there would be a heck of a lot less people that go to that bank. End users care about security, just see how many of crypto people out there really care about security on exchanges after the entire empty gox fiasco. Security is key!

Crypto currency users/investors want new and improved features, this is something they can actually see and use, and that adds value to the currency in their mind. I think merely following in Bitcoin’s footsteps is possibly a path to becoming obsolete. We already have Bitcoin, we don’t need another currency that is almost exactly like it except for a few changed parameters. By staying three steps behind Bitcoin in the crypto currency wars, they are positioning themselves to be obsolete if Bitcoin is ever supplanted by a new crypto currency that is much better. I made a hard push to get Litecoiners behind the idea of implementing new decentralized features, such as asset exchanges and decentralized applications, and I was completely ignored by the developers and dismissed by most of the Litecoin faithful. This is how the “best development team” operates? Completely ignoring their user base and someone that has gone out of his way to support Litecoin time and time again? You would think there is no value in the ideas of creating Dcorps/Dapps the way I was dismissed, but as you can see with the money flowing in on projects like BitsharesAGS/Swarm/Etcetera, a large portion of the crypto currency community agrees with me.

With your first part, crypto currency investors are really two types of people out there. So lets get that out of the way first.

1. The long term investors
2. the short term investors (i.e. the pump and dumpers)

Claiming there is one type is really not helpful to the conversation. This is the same as penny stocks versus investing in Microsoft, google, and other major companies. In the end, yes they both produce a net profit, but the means and the thoughts associated with them are two different worlds. As far as the crypto market is concerned, there are really two choices in terms of long term investment, and those are BTC and LTC (which you have admitted throughout your post as far as a current leader albeit you claim it is dying a slow death).

"We already have a Bitcoin", yes we do, its called Bitcoin. We also have Litecoin as a strong community and supporter to the crypto atmosphere as a whole. I really am impressed that you stated "if bitcoin is ever replaced", this tells me you are at least a reasonable person to discuss things with. With that said, right now with market adoption and brand Bitcoin is light years ahead of everything else, mainly because it is "the first". the advantages of having Litecoin in addition to bitcoin are quite a few, and it goes well beyond the technological aspects and into sociological, security, and human nature aspects.

1. Its a separate blockchain, God forbid anything happens to Bitcoin, Litecoin is a well known "backup"
2. We do not do a copy and paste of its code, from my understanding we are 2 versions behind bitcoin in case an implementation goes wrong
3. Litecoin is the oldest successful alternate to Bitcoin
4. Litecoin had one of if not the most fair launch ever, this is to include other different POW coins (I can elaborate on this in another post if someone were so inclined)
5. There is more, but the point is its a "trusted brand", evidence can be seen as in the trade volume and coupling to BTC. Essentially the trade volume is due to the fact that LTC is being used as arbitrage between BTC/LTC. It's trusted enough that people program bots to use it and its a safe number two with a possible future increase.
6. There is more, but hopefully I proved my points


As far as your thread about incorporating all these cool neato fantastic wiz bang features that all these other coins have I have a challenge for you. I would love to see you make the same threads here in Bitcointalk and get Gavin to respond to it stating he will work on it. If you really feel that strongly, you can certainly launch a campaign to do the same here. I would expect your results to be the same. This is because the devs recognize that all these gimmicks are really nothing more than gimmicks (with the exception of the new POW coins, but that would require a folk for LTC and I will address forks later on here)

And BTW you do not speak for the entire user base, while I respect your opinions as I always respect our community members you certainly do not speak for me.

This is not the only case where the developers have done as they pleased, many voiced concerns about ASICs coming online and ruining the decentralized nature of the network, making people pay for hardware that will never ROI and sadly has little to no resale value, and suscept the Litecoin mining community to pre-ordering hardware they may never even see (or at least they likely will never see on time before the difficulty skyrockets like what happened with Bitcoin.) After a year and a half of investing in ASIC mining technology, running group buys, and hosting hardware, I can honestly say it is a fool’s game. The original batch 1 Avalons broke even and made a hefty profit, and almost every ASIC offering since then has fallen short of simply allowing their customers to break even. I will no longer support ASIC mining or the companies that make them, and when that sentiment is shared by a large group of people (I know I’m not alone,) it can be a very dangerous thing and lead to centralization of the network. I am worried for both Bitcoin and Litecoin in those regards… when a crypto currency becomes centralized, what is the point really? Satoshi would not approve.

I...agree with you on this point. I have 1 asic, and this is one that was donated to me from lightning asic as a test unit (I was the lucky recipient of one of the worlds first scrypt asics, disclosure now, its complete crap lol).

This as mentioned by many members, Waren, and even Coblee himself have stated that there is no good way to take care of this issue. The con is that the network itself is somewhat centralized (but way better than how BTC is now), but the pro is in fact a stronger network, which you agreed on in your postings. In addition, in order to avoid this it would have required a hard fork, which would have the possibility of undermining the entire coin itself.

It's really a choice, do we want more capital poured into Litecoin and continue to pour in via infrastructure, or do we hard fork and let investors know that it isn't as "safe" as they wanted it to be. If you think about it, from a capital perspective, who the heck would invest in something that people could change on a whim and completely demolish your investments?

Although I do somewhat worry about it, but there is no good answer at this point other than letting the coin evolve into what BTC has become.

Litecoin’s trade volume and market cap dwarf those of other alternative crypo currencies. Although this is true, I feel like this is very dangerous reasoning for determining the future of a cryptocoin and should not be a large factor of your decision. Have you ever heard of the banks that are “too big to fail”? This is the kind of reasoning this reminds me of. Does anyone remember when Facebook came out of nowhere and made Myspace obsolete? Blockbuster got killed by Netflix and Redbox. Dell, once a leader in the IT sector has fallen behind its competitors. Kodak’s stock price is about 96% lower than it was in 1997 due to the advent of personal printers, improvements in software, and file sharing. Microsoft was at the forefront of technology at one point, and now they are playing catch up when it comes to search engines, internet video, ebooks, smartphones, and tablet PCs. Motorola was huge when mobile telephones first came out, yet they failed to focus on smartphones with new features and rapidly lost market share to companies like Apple, LG, and Samsung. Sears got huge by sending out catalogs and allowing customers to order things from home, but failed to capitalize when ecommerce became much more popular to consumers. A Sony Walkman used to be today’s iPod. Yahoo… Toys R Us… need I say more?

For this section, I like to do the grandma test. Go call your grandmother and ask her about Bitcoins (or any other older person). More times than not statistically speaking, you will get a "what is that" answer. The crypto eco-system is so very new, that all of these gimmicks at the end of the day really dont matter. What matters is being safe and brand recognition, which LTC have both of which is light years ahead of other alts (with the exception of dogecoin and Bitcoin). I mention this because you are talking about VERY WELL established companies that are uplifted by new comers. But how do you uplift a new comer by another new comer? Maybe sometime in the future, when BTC and LTC are accepted worldwide and I can pay my phone and electric bill with them, these new payment systems would be awesome! But also by that time, BTC and LTC will already be accepted by these companies.....so I really fail to see the argument here.

Due to rapid technological advancements and the competition being innovative and forward thinking (seeing a pattern here?), companies can become obsolete very fast and I see no reason why this does not (or could not) hold true with crypto currencies. The network effect is very powerful, however I feel like the network effect is exponentially more powerful for Bitcoin than it is for Litecoin. It is Bitcoin that is in the news all day every day, not Litecoin. Although Litecoin does get more attention than most other alternative crypto currencies, I feel this is because they are the guys to beat right now. As you can see in the last paragraph, this could change quickly and this is not a good argument for Litecoin holding its number two spot.

See above please . Although I agree that Litecoin isnt "marketed" as much as Litecoin, but I personally plan to see this change.

Although Litecoin may be accepted by more exchanges and merchants than other alternative crypto currencies, the more innovative and valuable ones are sure to follow. Multi coin payment processing is going to become more popular as more coins come out. Having a different payment processor for every crypto currency is just not a smart way of doing things, and the ones that only accept one or two crypto currencies will be less popular with merchants over time. If someone wants to buy something from me with Sex Coin, I am going to want their business as I can simply exchange the Sex Coin for whatever coin I would like. If the consumers have more options to pay, the more likely they are to purchase something. I am sure that I sold a few extra physical Litecoins because I used coinpayments.net which accepts something like 30+ crypto coins. I had it setup to automatically exchange the coins that I didn’t want. It was stupidly easy and got me a little extra business. What merchant wouldn’t want this? They will choose the payment processor that supports the most coins, and the most stubborn payment processors will be slowly phased out. Exchanges make money by people trading crypto currencies (duh, right?). There is no reason they will not keep adding coins to trade alongside other coins to increase their profit. By not adding new coins, whether it’s a scam coin or not, they are leaving money off the table and it makes no sense.

Lets work backwards, if your claim about companies (exchanges and payment processors) is true, then please tell me why certain exchanges will not accept nothing but Bitcoin. And even with that, there are a few major ones (BTC-China) that only accept BTC and LTC (before you go into the Bobby Lee and Charlie argument, I will state that Bobby, while being CEO, can't make these types of decisions solely. It requires the rest of the founders to be on board which were reluctant for a long time).

As far as acceptance, I will go with a somewhat good analogy. Betamax and VHS. Betamax was hands down the better technology, but they didnt have a controlling market share nor did they have the marketing that VHS had.

The Litecoin is silver to Bitcoin’s goal is simply a marketing slogan, nothing more nothing less. You could just as easily say Xcoin is silver to Bitcoin’s gold, and it wouldn’t be an incorrect statement. This thinking is similar to the “Litecoin is too big to fail” dogma, as we’ve seen with many of the technology giants that have been surpassed by innovative and forward thinking competition, this could change very quickly. I don’t look at Litecoin having ATMs as being a huge deal, as most people are looking to install Bitcoin ATMs. For Litecoin to compete with Bitcoin in the ATM space, they need to hope that Bitcoin ATMs are made to support Litecoin. If Bitcoin ATMs can be made to support Litecoin (and duh they can), then there is nothing stopping them from supporting other crypto currencies.

The only people claiming the "Silver to BTC's gold" are mainly trolls (I know you arent a troll, but others are). We have even had people in the community say we need to get away from this slogan because LTC can stand on its own two feet.

As far as the ATM's, they are really nice to see. But lets be honest....because cryptos as a whole are new who REALLY uses these? They are a niche market right now that may explode in the future, but right now are just a gimmick.

The rest of this paragraph can be related to betamax versus VHS again.

Yes Litecoin’s network speed dwarfs that of other Scrypt coins, and it is likely much more secure than those. However, I think it is silly to focus on only Scrypt coins. There are other innovative and valuable alternative crypto currencies that are not Scrypt-based. Some of the newer & most popular ones you can’t even mine them at all (like PoS coins). Making that a reason to be better than another ALT coin that does not have mining is like Mike Tyson fighting a baby. You can’t mine those coins, so how is Litecoin being the most secure Scrypt coin a good selling point? Maybe it is a good selling point versus all other Scrypt coins, however most of those are crap and everyone knows it.

I think you mean network hash rate in the first sentence (I'll just assume thats what you mean)?

The problem with PoS coins is that these still arent a great way for distribution. Sure they alleviate the power issue, but you cant distribute these properly. IPO's are nice, for initial investors, and if you had a great marketing team you can get more people to buy, but its still a bad way to distribute. If the distribution can be solved, that coin will blow out LTC and BTC.

Litecoin is not a back up to Bitcoin. If a huge flaw is found in Bitcoin and someone attacks it, Litecoin is likely to share that flaw. I always thought Litecoin would be a good backup if Bitcoin somehow was flawed because of it using a different algorithm. After learning more about this, I do not feel that is the case anymore. The encryption algorithm is the least likely place that a huge vulnerability will found. Cryptography is studied in academia much more so than Bitcoin’s source code, and the best and brightest are studying it... cryptography is no walk in the park. Short of quantum computing, which is unfeasible in the next 30 to 40 years, the encryption algorithm will not be the weak link. Furthermore, since Litecoin feels so apt to follow in Bitcoin’s steps, a huge percentage of the code base is shared by the two. If one goes down, the other is likely to follow. You may say… well if Bitcoin dies then all crypto currencies are doomed, but I am not so sure that is the case. Where other companies have failed, others have gone on to innovate and change the industry forever, even becoming bigger and better than their predecessors. Crypto currencies will certainly take a hit if Bitcoin dies, however it will not be the end of this movement I am certain of that.

I already stated that the code used is I think 2 versions behind in case there was a serious flaw. With the amount of talent in both coins I seriously doubt there is any issues however. But the added advantage is again all the devs work together to help both coins.

FYI quantum computing will be coming sooner than 30-40 years..........

And if BTC dies it may not kill the movement, but we will see a SERIOUS setback as a whole. To state otherwise is just ignorance.

As to the Litecoin Association being a good reason to support Litecoin… are you kidding me? Have you seen all the drama and mess the Bitcoin Foundation has had going on... I’m sure everyone has. I would venture to say that at this point the Bitcoin Foundation is hurting Bitcoin more than it is supporting it. When people form centralized foundations for decentralized technologies, it goes against the original spirit of decentralization and crypto currencies for which Satoshi set precedent for. As to Litecoin having a better community than any other alternative crypto currency, I beg to differ. I never felt welcomed, and was often chastized for my opinions. Although Coblee was very nice when I met him at the Bitcoin 2013 conference, he literally ignored me after that. Even when I was pleading to the developers to comment on adding new features to Litecoin. Honestly, before Litecoin jumped up in price in November/December 2012, Coblee was nowhere to be seen in the Litecoin community. Once the price started to rise he suddenly showed up and started making an effort. I have no problem with that, but I couldn’t help but notice the coincidence. Anytime I tried to bring up controversial opinions or suggestions I was met with opposition mostly from early adopters. Furthermore, I feel like the Litecoin community is a big “click” and the really early adopters are much more likely to support each other on controversial matters than new users, and this is alarming considering Coblee is in this group. For instance, Coblee seemed genuinely excited and even encouraged me to make my physical Litecoins at the Bitcoin conference in 2013, even stating that he wanted one! He completely ignored me after this, only replying to one of my controversial posts when the ASIC debate was at its peak. I have seen him supporting Smoothie and his ventures, and even the new “Coinographic” guy, but he never once supported me publicly- only privately in conversation and then ignored forever. Again, this brings me back to there being a Litecoin “click” that is hard to get into… I couldn’t even after spilling blood, sweat, and tears for them.

This really hurts man and you know better. I as a main member of the Litecoin Association you know very well that we operate in a completely different atmosphere than the Bitcoin Foundation. The LA, unlike the TBF, are not associated with the developers. We are here to educate and help both LTC and cryptos as a whole. This can be shown by the MANY initiatives we are involved in from charities, to community projects, to marketing and public education. None of us are paid for our work at all. And we have raised thousands of dollars to help quite a number of people and organizations. The LA also hosts and pays for Litecointalk on top of that. We have raised funds for the development team as well, who in turn donated to the P2Pool developer which helps BTC and other coins that use the code.

As far as your business and interactions with Coblee, I can't really comment at all since for obvious reasons I wasn't involved in all of that.

Faster block times are no longer a good selling point, as there are other coins with faster block times that don’t have a huge problem with stales etcetera. Anywhere in between a minute and two and a half minute block time does not suffer from the things that Litecoin says will happen if they go any faster, at least not to the point where it is a huge problem. Everyone knows by now that Litecoin confirmations are less secure than Bitcoin confirmations. Furthermore, many Bitcoin payment processors process payments without any or as little as 1 confirmation, making some Bitcoin payments instant. I don’t see this as good as a feature I had originally thought, as many coins have come out that were faster and didn’t completely fail. Along this same line of thinking, the statement that Litecoin had a fair release… how is that even a feature? That is just default common sense for any developer developing a crypto currency if they want it to succeed. Not having a fair release is a sure way to death, as was learned with the alternative crypto currencies that came before Litecoin. Since Litecoin was released, I feel like there were numerous even more fair releases than Litecoin. So again, this argument lost its appeal to me.

Not really sure what the argument here is. You used the argument that we are a copy of BTC, now you are saying we are BTC with a few extra incentives (faster block times). So small innovations like this arent work mentioning and instead used as a argument AGAINST BTC?

"Everyone knows by now that Litecoin confirmations are less secure than Bitcoin confirmations." -->  This statement is pure bullshit and has no basis what so ever. I am not even sure where you came up with this. As a matter of fact, there was a coindesk article that stated a company has found a way to REVERSE BTC payments, which has a much lesser chance of succeeding with LTC.

As far as the release, Ive addressed that and can elaborate in another post if you really need me too (ive already typed it up in two or three posts here in Bitcointalk, as well as Coblee addressing it).

For those of you that think this may be FUD, I can tell you I currently do not have a balance above zero in any crypto currencies, and this is my non biased opinion of Litecoin and why I have stopped supporting it. Again, I must stress it was a hard decision as I have been supporting it for so long, and even got some of my friends and family invested. I am starting to regret that now, I am going to have to point them to this paper as I would feel horrible if they are left holding the bag. I can only really suggest Bitcoin at this point, anything else is really risky and it’s too early to tell who will rise to the top. I suggest putting a small percentage of your coins into projects you find interesting or innovative. It is going to take something truly innovative to supplant Bitcoin, and by coincidence Litecoin as well since they are content blindly following Bitcoin. I have a feeling this day will come sooner than we all think.

I dont really consider it FUD (except the LTC confirms you stated in the last part, I have no idea where you came up with that), but it is in no way unbiased. You claimed you were "shunned" by the community because some people didnt agree with you trying to get gimmicks incorporated into the Litecoin code base (which again would require a hard fork, which I again have addressed). And you have some sort of feud with smoothie, which im not touching with a 100 foot pole because thats between you and him.

All in all good post and I appreciate the time you put into this. But this is really nothing that I have not seen nor addressed before. I took extra time in addressing you because you put a tremendous amount of non-trolling effort into this.

As for your last few comments, you are really doing you family and friends a disservice by not getting them involved with LTC. The coin itself will increase in value BUT more importantly it can and will be used as an alternate form of currency to fiat, as Bitcoin is meant too.

I hope that some of my comments have made you have a change of heart. You know that I personally work very hard for LTC and cryptos, and this infighting of coins does NOTHING for all of us at all.

[smoothie]

Smoothie, this is the last thing I'll say to you. I know you always like to have the last word and prove me wrong in the final statements of our arguments, so I will let you have that privilege.

If you ever want to debate the reasons you support Litecoin, then door is always open. It's trolls like you why all these anti Litecoin threads are made to be self moderated. I haven't ever made a self moderated thread once in my life, as I am not ashamed and I know that I have a point here. Unfortunately, you don't want to talk about the subject at hand and can only insult me. That is not my fault, I tried to have an earnest debate with you, and you refused to do so. You look like a clown skating around the topic at hand with as many different ways you can think of to take the conversion off topic.

Cya buddy

Once I made my stance clear on where I see Litecoin in the future (which is I have no stance on it and we will see)...you went off on a bunch of other victim-minded topics including being insulted. So here is my last post as well....

Good job with the name calling. Very mature. 

See ya "insulted victim"!  

[CoinHoarder]

Thanks Smoothie, I did miss that, and by the way I spent something like 30 minutes responding to your post about your "reasoning" and you never replied back. You just resorted to more insulting.

I'll get back with you tomorrow Mage, it seems there's a lot to go over there and it is getting late.

Peace

[smoothie]

Thanks Smoothie, I did miss that, and by the way I spent something like 30 minutes responding to your post about your "reasoning" and you never replied back. You just resorted to more insulting.

I'll get back with you tomorrow Mage, it seems there's a lot to go over there and it is getting late.

Peace

No problem. Kinda hard to miss a giant wall of text.

[From Above]

Litecoin is and has always been an utter crap shitclone.  all dem new threads r not really any news

~CfA~

[Deviant1]

I still remember when the BTC-e trollbox was all abuzz about Litecoin going on Gox and then "to the moon".

Just goes to show how unpredictable things are in the cryptocurrency world.

[From Above]

I still remember when the BTC-e trollbox was all abuzz about Litecoin going on Gox and then "to the moon".

ROFL me too
talkin' bout hardcode delusion
~CfA~

[shanecoins]

I will hold until its $100 or $0 

[slapper]

My problem with Litecoin is brainwashed subservience, salesmen preaching how to be to be good suck ups in life. That is against fundamental human spirit. Those who got brainwashed are now arrogantly proud of being subservient and want others to do so as well. Exhibit A: Constant reminders of "Silver to Gold". It's bagholders reminding others of how this is a "necessity" or that Litecoin fulfils this necessity and that it will continue to do so because of .... (yah right, nothing).

The other problem is how mining hardware centralization is being obfuscated as essential component for network security. Who the fuck are you clowns kidding? Expanding on this is an insult to crypto knowhow. Yah Bitcoin got way with it. Bitcoin will continue to get away with it in all probability because crypto in general is niche even now with Bitcoin awareness and slow adoption.

My biggest problem with Litecoin is the continued condescension of the vocal minority who ensure that Litecoin will never go anywhere because of them. Every single coin is branded as "Remember Auroracoin" or "Dogecoin jokes" and dismissed in their typical arrogance. Their heads are so far up their asses, that they have forgotten it stinks. Who the fuck wants to be part of this type of community? Why should I exchange goods with this type of coin holder if I am a business?

Broadly speaking there will be two prominent blockchains.

Trasparent -> BTC. King of them all and should be forever.
Non Transparent -> No established dominant chain acceptance yet.

In the future Litecoin will have to come up with different marketing jargons. Silver is not going to do it. Just wait till the smart start cashing out, the reality sinking at $5 and then the blind faithful finally capitulating around $1.

[hellscabane]

However, infrastructure is significantly more limited than it is with BTC and a lot of other alts are quickly catching up. LTC still has a sizable edge, but that gap is closing rather than expanding.

Though in fairness, you write this as ASICs are just now starting to take over the network. We're going to have a much different looking picture at the end of 2014. When you look at Litecoin's network difficulty and hashrate, it dwarfs all other alts.

Litecoin's network will never have the hashrate or difficulty that Bitcoin does, because of Scrypt. That limits the amount of hashrate that can be squeezed out of ASIC hardware, relative to power consumption. But in relative terms, Litecoin's network over the next year will likely grow to become just as secure as Bitcoin's is, today...if the current momentum is any indication.

Bitcoin looked stagnant for a long, long time before ASICs hit it, and more attention started getting drawn to it. That attention came from the investment being made in its infrastructure. That vote of confidence was essentially what catapulted it into the consciousness of venture capitalists and investors. So the premise that Litecoin is somehow dying a slow death, while hundreds of millions are being poured into hardware infrastructure seems a tad premature, to me.

Sorry for the lack of response; I was more referring to infrastructure in terms of the usability of LTC (such as merchant acceptance). Multi-payment processors and quicker adoption of other coins in various crypto-currency marketplaces have quickened, so it's beginning to take away from that secondary strong suit that LTC has had.

As for ASICs, I really do see it becoming like it is with BTC; LTC will likely be the standard sCrypt ledger and I don't anticipate it falling by the wayside to any other sCrypt alt.

My apologies for the confusion, I tend to bucket advancements in market penetration as part of the infrastructure and hardware infrastructure as part of security.

[smoothie]

I still remember when the BTC-e trollbox was all abuzz about Litecoin going on Gox and then "to the moon".

ROFL me too
talkin' bout hardcode delusion
~CfA~

Yes it was a good thing LTC didn't go on gox.

I kept saying LTC doesn't need gox around the time people were repeating that garbage over and over.

[smoothie]

My problem with Litecoin is brainwashed subservience, salesmen preaching how to be to be good suck ups in life. That is against fundamental human spirit. Those who got brainwashed are now arrogantly proud of being subservient and want others to do so as well. Exhibit A: Constant reminders of "Silver to Gold". It's bagholders reminding others of how this is a "necessity" or that Litecoin fulfils this necessity and that it will continue to do so because of .... (yah right, nothing).

The other problem is how mining hardware centralization is being obfuscated as essential component for network security. Who the fuck are you clowns kidding? Expanding on this is an insult to crypto knowhow. Yah Bitcoin got way with it. Bitcoin will continue to get away with it in all probability because crypto in general is niche even now with Bitcoin awareness and slow adoption.

My biggest problem with Litecoin is the continued condescension of the vocal minority who ensure that Litecoin will never go anywhere because of them. Every single coin is branded as "Remember Auroracoin" or "Dogecoin jokes" and dismissed in their typical arrogance. Their heads are so far up their asses, that they have forgotten it stinks. Who the fuck wants to be part of this type of community? Why should I exchange goods with this type of coin holder if I am a business?

Broadly speaking there will be two prominent blockchains.

Trasparent -> BTC. King of them all and should be forever.
Non Transparent -> No established dominant chain acceptance yet.

In the future Litecoin will have to come up with different marketing jargons. Silver is not going to do it. Just wait till the smart start cashing out, the reality sinking at $5 and then the blind faithful finally capitulating around $1.

Price is irrelevant because back when LTC was $0.05 each there were people like you saying the same thing and now 2 years later it isnt any different this time.

[slapper]

My problem with Litecoin is brainwashed subservience, salesmen preaching how to be to be good suck ups in life. That is against fundamental human spirit. Those who got brainwashed are now arrogantly proud of being subservient and want others to do so as well. Exhibit A: Constant reminders of "Silver to Gold". It's bagholders reminding others of how this is a "necessity" or that Litecoin fulfils this necessity and that it will continue to do so because of .... (yah right, nothing).

The other problem is how mining hardware centralization is being obfuscated as essential component for network security. Who the fuck are you clowns kidding? Expanding on this is an insult to crypto knowhow. Yah Bitcoin got way with it. Bitcoin will continue to get away with it in all probability because crypto in general is niche even now with Bitcoin awareness and slow adoption.

My biggest problem with Litecoin is the continued condescension of the vocal minority who ensure that Litecoin will never go anywhere because of them. Every single coin is branded as "Remember Auroracoin" or "Dogecoin jokes" and dismissed in their typical arrogance. Their heads are so far up their asses, that they have forgotten it stinks. Who the fuck wants to be part of this type of community? Why should I exchange goods with this type of coin holder if I am a business?

Broadly speaking there will be two prominent blockchains.

Trasparent -> BTC. King of them all and should be forever.
Non Transparent -> No established dominant chain acceptance yet.

In the future Litecoin will have to come up with different marketing jargons. Silver is not going to do it. Just wait till the smart start cashing out, the reality sinking at $5 and then the blind faithful finally capitulating around $1.

Price is irrelevant because back when LTC was $0.05 each there were people like you saying the same thing and now 2 years later it isnt any different this time.

You are one of these vocal minorities I was talking about.

2 years ago Litecoin.org had messages claiming CPU affinity (actually up until 2 months ago even). Things have changed and it is different this time. It is now a subservient edited joint. Enjoy it while it lasts and I am sure you do.

[smoothie]

My problem with Litecoin is brainwashed subservience, salesmen preaching how to be to be good suck ups in life. That is against fundamental human spirit. Those who got brainwashed are now arrogantly proud of being subservient and want others to do so as well. Exhibit A: Constant reminders of "Silver to Gold". It's bagholders reminding others of how this is a "necessity" or that Litecoin fulfils this necessity and that it will continue to do so because of .... (yah right, nothing).

The other problem is how mining hardware centralization is being obfuscated as essential component for network security. Who the fuck are you clowns kidding? Expanding on this is an insult to crypto knowhow. Yah Bitcoin got way with it. Bitcoin will continue to get away with it in all probability because crypto in general is niche even now with Bitcoin awareness and slow adoption.

My biggest problem with Litecoin is the continued condescension of the vocal minority who ensure that Litecoin will never go anywhere because of them. Every single coin is branded as "Remember Auroracoin" or "Dogecoin jokes" and dismissed in their typical arrogance. Their heads are so far up their asses, that they have forgotten it stinks. Who the fuck wants to be part of this type of community? Why should I exchange goods with this type of coin holder if I am a business?

Broadly speaking there will be two prominent blockchains.

Trasparent -> BTC. King of them all and should be forever.
Non Transparent -> No established dominant chain acceptance yet.

In the future Litecoin will have to come up with different marketing jargons. Silver is not going to do it. Just wait till the smart start cashing out, the reality sinking at $5 and then the blind faithful finally capitulating around $1.

Price is irrelevant because back when LTC was $0.05 each there were people like you saying the same thing and now 2 years later it isnt any different this time.

You are one of these vocal minorities I was talking about.

2 years ago Litecoin.org had messages claiming CPU affinity (actually up until 2 months ago even). Things have changed and it is different this time. It is now a subservient edited joint. Enjoy it while it lasts and I am sure you do.

lol

So funny to hear the same tune about what is irrelevant. Who cares what a new slogan or saying will do?

What matters is the protocol is sound and people trust the network (there is some sort of network effect).

You tried to bring price into the picture as if that really matters. Now you ignore it when I bring up that there were people like you back then saying the same thing you are saying now.

Perhaps Litecoin will never always be #2 ...let's let the free market decide and stop with the immature name calling? Thanks.

There will probably be people like you who will say LTC is going to "die" 2 years from now. Nothing new buddy.  

It is really simple: Don't like litecoin? Don't use it. The rest is just whining and crying on the forums it appears.

[btcxyzzz]

+1 for OP. Very good observation.

[btcxyzzz]

A year ago a Litecoin was worth about $ 2.50 its about $ 9.50 today, yep its a slow death aright

A year ago there was like 10-20 alts?

[smoothie]

No amount of posting on a forum will change what the network effect of LTC will be. The market will decide for itself without biased statements of "oh so and so ignored me and they shunned me blah blah".

Or even claiming that LTC supporters are like "brainwashed subservience, salesmen preaching".

The thing to remember is that in any community of people there will always be people that say things that are not true and get others outside of the community riled up.

That isn't an excuse to lump everyone together as to be that type of person to spout BS.

That's like saying if a white guy offends you then all white guys are offensive. The logic fails there.

My biggest problem with Litecoin is the continued condescension of the vocal minority who ensure that Litecoin will never go anywhere because of them. Every single coin is branded as "Remember Auroracoin" or "Dogecoin jokes" and dismissed in their typical arrogance. Their heads are so far up their asses, that they have forgotten it stinks. Who the fuck wants to be part of this type of community? Why should I exchange goods with this type of coin holder if I am a business?

Just because someone told you that litecoin isn't going to go anywhere because of "them" doesn't mean that applies to all of the "vocal minority".

I'm of the opinion that if LTC "fails" it failed for a valid reason that the free market decided.

I don't think LTC will be "dead" in a few years but that doesn't mean I am claiming it will never ever "fail" or "die" or whatever undefined word you want to use to describe LTC's future.

[msin]

Other than price speculation, please give me one reason to buy LTC over BTC.  That is why is will die a slow death.

[FreeJack2k2]

Other than price speculation, please give me one reason to buy LTC over BTC.  That is why is will die a slow death.

LOL...read through the thread. There have been AMPLE reasons stated.

[darkota]

Other than price speculation, please give me one reason to buy LTC over BTC.  That is why is will die a slow death.

LOL...read through the thread. There have been AMPLE reasons stated.

Stop lying to the guy please.

Litecoin  has no adoption, there are no major stores accepting it at all.

Litecoin has no innovative features, it's only feature was ASIC resistance, and it's now being raped by scrypt ASIC's...

Litecoin also has no "dev team", we can safely say Litecoin's original Dev abandoned the project years ago, as almost no updates was made to the code software..

Anyone who actually buys Litecoin is a dumbass and as you can see since it feel over 80%, they're going to end up loosing a lot of money...It's worthless.

[mymenace]

and again

[CoinHoarder]

Wow, you certainly did promise a long write up. I am impressed (and not being sarcastic either)!

Coinhoarder, as you know i've personally never had anything against you or any other community member at all. But im sure you can expect a reply from me as well hehe. You took a long time to post this, and deserve and equal length and thought in a response .

First of all, I congratulate you for posting something good to read rather than "Litecoin is dead cause I say it is" that I see from the normal trolls .

Thank you for your genuine, level headed, and thorough response. It is posts such as this that I was hoping to receive instead of just getting flamed. You are setting a good example for fellow Litecoiners, and I appreciate the respectful tone in which your post was made.

I feel like the argument that “Litecoin has the best development team” is quite disrespectful to the many other talented and devoted developers of other alt coins. You might as well call them all idiots. In fact, there are many developers that are going above and beyond what the Litecoin developers are doing. Litecoin has decided that it is content to simply follow in the steps of Bitcoin, something I tried hard to lobby against. Litecoin is merely developing things that Bitcoin has already made, such as Electrum and Android wallets. I will give them (well… Warren) a bit of credit for improving some security issues on both Litecoin and Bitcoin, but they do not see the glaring issue in that the end users don’t actually ever see these improvements. Nor do they particularly care… what I mean by that is… Have any of you ever had a problem because of a security issue in the Litecoin/Bitcoin client? I would be surprised to hear one person tell me yes they have, as after using it for years I haven’t and most cases that pop up seem to be user error.

While I personally feel that Litecoin has some of the best and the brightest, I certainly do not doubt the efforts and skills of other developers at all. There are a many of them that are talented and at first glance a few of them really want to try to make improvements upon this young moment (i.e cryptos).

With your second part you seem to contradict your statements. At first you congratulate the LTC dev team for making improvements with security and in the same breath mention that you never heard of security issues and therefore end users dont care. Come on man.....if there were any serious security issues with the BTC or LTC clients then it would be a huge issue with the entire crypto movement. Security at this point in the game is the number one item that needs to be taken care of more than anything else. I would like to use an analogy that if there was any serious security issues with a bank (like if a bank was robbed) and there was no FDIC to fall abck on, peoples money would be truly lost. Therefore there would be a heck of a lot less people that go to that bank. End users care about security, just see how many of crypto people out there really care about security on exchanges after the entire empty gox fiasco. Security is key!

I agree that security is very important, if everyone can't trust Litecoin then no one will use it. I did not mean to make it sound like I didn't think that is important, and I think perhaps I didn't word my statement properly to convey what I was trying to say. I feel that by focusing most of the development effort on improving security, that it makes it hard for the average crypto currency user to tell that Litecoin is actually being developed and improved upon. Unless they really keep up with the development updates on the Litecoin forums, they are never really going to notice or see these changes. If you open up the Litecoin client, apart from coin control, it looks about the same as it did 2 years ago featurewise. When people that are already involved in the crypto community and are looking to invest in something new, which is where I feel Litecoin has the biggest possibility to gain more users (that's how I found Litecoin,) they are going to see something that looks almost exactly similar to Bitcoin. That might not be so interesting to them as some of the newer innovative coins, and they may be less likely to invest or support Litecoin because of it.

I know that my personal opinion is that Litecoin is quite boring compared to all these new exciting projects. I feel like some of the newer projects have one-upped Bitcoin/Litecoin by adding different services and features that Bitcoin/Litecoin don't have, which makes them distinguishably different from Bitcoin. I feel like this adds perceived value or speculative value to the crypto currency, more so than a ton of security updates. If a Bitcoin clone came out today that was 100% focused on security, I would venture to say that it may not go over so well. However, if they added neat features then it adds to the perceived value, and people are more likely to invest or support the currency. Litecoin needs to alter their mixture of development efforts in my opinion to reflect this.

I also don't like the perception that people are prone to arriving at, that simply because a crypto currency is new and has new/different features than Bitcoin/Litecoin, that means it is filled with security issues. Sure, I'm certain there are some issues, but at the same time there are certainly still some vulnerabilities Bitcoin/Litecoin that will be brought to light sooner or later. Any program with as many lines of code as a crypto currency has, is likely vulnerable to security issues no matter how big the budget is and how talented the developers are. These security issues may or may not be known yet, and it may take a while for them to be uncovered, but I feel this is happening all the time. The most recent episode of the heart bleed SSL vulnerability comes to mind. As long as the developers of these new currencies are smart, careful, talented, security minded, and had a thorough security audit of their code done by a 3rd party, I don't really see the issue.

I believe it is unfair to say because something is new that it is full of security issues. It goes a long way in that most of these newer innovative currencies have not had huge security issues that would completely destroy the value of the currency. Sure, there have been some issues here and there, but nothing that would be a crippling blow in my opinion and nothing that other currencies (even Bitcoin/Litecoin) do not face themselves. I agree it is risky to jump into a new alternative currency that may have security issues, but the old saying goes "no risk no reward." Those that take the risk by adopting these currencies early might end up coming out very well (example: Nxt IPO coins).

Crypto currency users/investors want new and improved features, this is something they can actually see and use, and that adds value to the currency in their mind. I think merely following in Bitcoin’s footsteps is possibly a path to becoming obsolete. We already have Bitcoin, we don’t need another currency that is almost exactly like it except for a few changed parameters. By staying three steps behind Bitcoin in the crypto currency wars, they are positioning themselves to be obsolete if Bitcoin is ever supplanted by a new crypto currency that is much better. I made a hard push to get Litecoiners behind the idea of implementing new decentralized features, such as asset exchanges and decentralized applications, and I was completely ignored by the developers and dismissed by most of the Litecoin faithful. This is how the “best development team” operates? Completely ignoring their user base and someone that has gone out of his way to support Litecoin time and time again? You would think there is no value in the ideas of creating Dcorps/Dapps the way I was dismissed, but as you can see with the money flowing in on projects like BitsharesAGS/Swarm/Etcetera, a large portion of the crypto currency community agrees with me.

With your first part, crypto currency investors are really two types of people out there. So lets get that out of the way first.

1. The long term investors
2. the short term investors (i.e. the pump and dumpers)

Claiming there is one type is really not helpful to the conversation. This is the same as penny stocks versus investing in Microsoft, google, and other major companies. In the end, yes they both produce a net profit, but the means and the thoughts associated with them are two different worlds. As far as the crypto market is concerned, there are really two choices in terms of long term investment, and those are BTC and LTC (which you have admitted throughout your post as far as a current leader albeit you claim it is dying a slow death).

I see what you are saying in terms of different types of investors, however I think you are over-generalizing the different types of crypto investors. I would say there are at least four types of investors:

1. Long term risk adverse investors (Bitcoin/Litecoin)
2. Long term risk prone investors (DCorps/Cryptocoin 2.0s/Etc.)
3. Short term investors (pump and dumpers, but don't forget day traders as well)
4. Savvy investors whom spread the risk around inbetween Bitcoin/Litecoin and DCorps/Cryptocoin 2.0s/Etc.

This is a matter of opinion, but I feel that you have the bolded statement backwards. I currently look at Bitcoin/Litecoin as a short term investment, and the newer currencies as a long term investment. Many Bitcoiners will admit that some of these newer currencies have more bells and whistles than Bitcoin, and the only thing keeping Bitcoin on top is the network effect and perhaps the venture capital that is flowing in (which is not really the case for Litecoin when it comes to VCs.) I feel like as the public finds out about crypto currencies and educates themselves about them, the network effect will slowly lose its stranglehold on the industry, and users will look for currencies that have improved upon Bitcoin greatly. Bitcoin itself is not invulnerable to being dethroned, and I feel like Litecoin is in the same boat. If Bitcoin doesn't continue to improve itself and adapt, it may very well find itself as the #2 crypto someday. Luckily they have one thing going for them that Litecoin doesn't, in that there are several Bitcoin 2.0 protocols being built on top of Bitcoin, which could support its value in this case.

"We already have a Bitcoin", yes we do, its called Bitcoin. We also have Litecoin as a strong community and supporter to the crypto atmosphere as a whole.

There are many other coins with strong communities, I don't really see this as an argument for Litecoin. I would venture to say that some of the newer communities are stronger in terms of the amount of developers involved. For example, it is rumored that Ethereum literally attracted something like 500 developers almost over night, and there are a ton of projects in the works. I think a community full of developers (like Bitcoin) is more important than a community of marketers and promoters. I can't believe I'm quoting this, but in the Field Of Dreams the saying goes, "if you build it they will come". I like this line of thinking when it comes to cryptos. Although they might not be widely adopted right when they come out, I think eventually if there is added substance and value on top of Bitcoin/Litecoin, that it is only a matter of time before the crypto community comes. (wow.. that totally didn't sound right..  )

I also feel like whether an alternative coin is directly helping with Bitcoin development or not, everyone is helping with Bitcoin development by default (assuming their projects are open source.) I look at alternative crypto currencies as a playground for developers to try out new things and ideas, and if something is truly innovative, then Bitcoin now has a road map as to how to integrate this into Bitcoin by looking over the code. The same could be said about Litecoin, but the problem with that is the development team is extremely small when compared to Bitcoin's development team. Furthermore, Litecoin's development team's budget is quite small in comparison to Bitcoin, and they would likely need a bigger team to make some of these changes. This is one thing that annoyed me about Litecoin is that there are some people sitting on huge piles of coins (no different from Bitcoin or any other coin for that matter), that are not contributing to the development fund or involved with the community. I know you are not one of those people, so don't take that the wrong way.

I really am impressed that you stated "if bitcoin is ever replaced", this tells me you are at least a reasonable person to discuss things with.

Definitely, I think every crypto is vulnerable to becoming irrelevant. This is the wild west, things are developing very quickly, and anything can certainly happen in the future. One month in the crypto world is like 1 year in most industries. I am shocked at how quickly things are coming along, it is frankly very hard to keep track of everything although I do my best.

With that said, right now with market adoption and brand Bitcoin is light years ahead of everything else, mainly because it is "the first". the advantages of having Litecoin in addition to bitcoin are quite a few, and it goes well beyond the technological aspects and into sociological, security, and human nature aspects.

1. Its a separate blockchain, God forbid anything happens to Bitcoin, Litecoin is a well known "backup"
2. We do not do a copy and paste of its code, from my understanding we are 2 versions behind bitcoin in case an implementation goes wrong
3. Litecoin is the oldest successful alternate to Bitcoin
4. Litecoin had one of if not the most fair launch ever, this is to include other different POW coins (I can elaborate on this in another post if someone were so inclined)
5. There is more, but the point is its a "trusted brand", evidence can be seen as in the trade volume and coupling to BTC. Essentially the trade volume is due to the fact that LTC is being used as arbitrage between BTC/LTC. It's trusted enough that people program bots to use it and its a safe number two with a possible future increase.
6. There is more, but hopefully I proved my points

1. As of now there are also 100s of different block chains as a "back up". This might of been more correct 2 years ago, but now there are many back ups that arent simply copy and paste coins. So, I don't see this as an argument for specifically Litecoin.. it is more of an argument for alternative crypto currencies in general.
2. I'd like to make the same point here as I did in #1, as there are a lot of currencies that didn't copy and paste available or in development today. Again, I feel like this statement might of been more correct 1 to 2 years ago (and still applies today to the pump and dumpers) when it was mostly copy and paste coins being released. Today it is very different. There are so many cryptos that did not copy and paste, that I will probably never use or learn about them all. It is the sad reality, but I think that is a good problem to have. The alternative currency movement has come a long ways in the past 1 to 2 years, and people are moving more from pump and dump coins to coins that are actually innovative. Some more than others, but nonetheless I feel it is a step in the right direction.
3. I agree with you.
4. I agree Litecoin had a fair launch, but I no longer consider this a feature. As stated in the OP, this is just common sense. During the flurry of copy and paste coins I think this point was hammered home to developers and now we are seeing much more fair releases of coins. I haven't brought up this argument before, but it is something I've been thinking about.. I would venture to say that some of the newer cryptos being fairly released today will have a much better distribution than Bitcoin/Litecoin due to the fact that the community has grown a lot over the years. There are more people around that are more likely to go mine a new coin than there was 2-3 years ago. I feel like we've yet to see the most fairly released currency, as it will come well after cryptos are more widely adopted for this reason. I will admit that when you look at Litecoin's distribution compared to Bitcoin, you guys look like saints. In Bitcoin, there is far too large of a percentage of available coins in a small percentage of people's pockets.
5. I don't buy the "trusted brand" argument for making Litecoin a good long term investment. As you can tell, I think even Bitcoin is prone to irrelevancy and they are the most trusted out of all the cryptos. You have a point about the volume of Litecoin, and I agree that is definitely a good thing it has going for it. I think this dynamic is likely to change overtime though as the newer most innovative coins separate themselves from the rest, and it is likely that one or two of those coins will also be used for arbitrage (they are already to a smaller extent.) High volume is a good thing for cryptos as it allows people to sell and buy without affecting the price too horribly, so I will concede a point to you here. I just think that it is very possible that could change down the road. I'm pretty sure people are programming bots for just about every crypto by the way, as some of the lesser used cryptos will have the most opportunity due to there being more competition with other bots in Bitcoin/Litecoin. For example, if you picked a lesser known coin with decent volume, it makes sense to me that this could be more profitable due to the lack of competition. This is why I never got into day trading... its hard to compete with bots haha, those things pissed me off when they'd always come in and instantly outbid or underbid me by one Satoshi.  

As far as your thread about incorporating all these cool neato fantastic wiz bang features that all these other coins have I have a challenge for you. I would love to see you make the same threads here in Bitcointalk and get Gavin to respond to it stating he will work on it. If you really feel that strongly, you can certainly launch a campaign to do the same here. I would expect your results to be the same. This is because the devs recognize that all these gimmicks are really nothing more than gimmicks (with the exception of the new POW coins, but that would require a folk for LTC and I will address forks later on here)

And BTW you do not speak for the entire user base, while I respect your opinions as I always respect our community members you certainly do not speak for me.

I think it is a mistake to think that Bitcoin would need new features as much as Litecoin does, because they have a much stronger stranglehold on the industry. They have many more resources when it comes to developers and funding, and are well positioned to improve upon Bitcoin- exponentially more so than Litecoin. I understand that Litecoin really can't do much about this, as Bitcoin is king right now, but it is a sad reality that Litecoin has to face.

If you look in the development subforum and the project development subforum here on bitcointalk, this is already happening in a large scale with Bitcoin. Then go over and compare that to the Litecoin development and project development subforum, and you will see what I am getting at. There is no need for me to push the importance of innovation over here, because there are so many people doing it already, and honestly many of these people are more qualified to do so as I am not a developer. There are many people coming up with new ideas and features that can be built into Bitcoin, and I think the best ones will eventually make it in. Bitcoin is not writing everything off as a gimmick like Litecoin seems to be, they are developing and innovating. There will be some good (true innovation) and some bad (gimmicky innovation) that come with that, but the best ideas will succeed and be implemented.

Yes, Smoothie has pointed this out to me already and I do agree it was a bad choice of words to say what the community as a whole wants, because obviously opinions differ. A better way of saying it would be that by judging by the responses of both the free market (.03 LTC/BTC to .016 LTC/BTC) and community member's opinions shared on these forums, that the crypto community does indeed want innovation. There is no point in reinventing the wheel, but if you can do it better than it was done before, then why not? It doesn't make any sense to me not to want to embrace innovation and brush everything off as a gimmick. How would technology have ever improved to what it is today if everything was brushed aside as a gimmick?

This is not the only case where the developers have done as they pleased, many voiced concerns about ASICs coming online and ruining the decentralized nature of the network, making people pay for hardware that will never ROI and sadly has little to no resale value, and suscept the Litecoin mining community to pre-ordering hardware they may never even see (or at least they likely will never see on time before the difficulty skyrockets like what happened with Bitcoin.) After a year and a half of investing in ASIC mining technology, running group buys, and hosting hardware, I can honestly say it is a fool’s game. The original batch 1 Avalons broke even and made a hefty profit, and almost every ASIC offering since then has fallen short of simply allowing their customers to break even. I will no longer support ASIC mining or the companies that make them, and when that sentiment is shared by a large group of people (I know I’m not alone,) it can be a very dangerous thing and lead to centralization of the network. I am worried for both Bitcoin and Litecoin in those regards… when a crypto currency becomes centralized, what is the point really? Satoshi would not approve.

I...agree with you on this point. I have 1 asic, and this is one that was donated to me from lightning asic as a test unit (I was the lucky recipient of one of the worlds first scrypt asics, disclosure now, its complete crap lol).

This as mentioned by many members, Waren, and even Coblee himself have stated that there is no good way to take care of this issue. The con is that the network itself is somewhat centralized (but way better than how BTC is now), but the pro is in fact a stronger network, which you agreed on in your postings. In addition, in order to avoid this it would have required a hard fork, which would have the possibility of undermining the entire coin itself.

It's really a choice, do we want more capital poured into Litecoin and continue to pour in via infrastructure, or do we hard fork and let investors know that it isn't as "safe" as they wanted it to be. If you think about it, from a capital perspective, who the heck would invest in something that people could change on a whim and completely demolish your investments?

Although I do somewhat worry about it, but there is no good answer at this point other than letting the coin evolve into what BTC has become.

I pretty much agree with you here, and perhaps I was too hard on them for this. There really is no obvious answer to stopping ASICs in most PoW protocols, and there may never be one. However, I don't feel like we as a community simply have to accept this fact. This is why PoS coins really interest me, it is the only solid solution to keeping ASICs off the network thus far. Most of the coins that have been sold as being ASIC resistance are not really ASIC resistant at all. If it makes since in terms of being a profitable venture, then ASICs will be made for these coins sooner or later, as we saw with both Bitcoin and Litecoin. It is very scary to me that decentralized currencies might end up being not so decentralized in a couple years. It is kind of sad that there isn't really a good solution for this in terms of PoW, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't look into alternatives. Litecoin and Bitcoin are pretty much stuck with Sha256 and Scrypt, and I don't think it would have necessarily been a good idea to change it, but this doesn't change the fact that Scrypt ASICs are out and the network is becoming less decentralized. I think both Bitcoin and Litecoin are screwed in these regards, and it will be interesting to see if everyone will be OK with the network becoming more centralized. Personally, that is not OK with me.

Litecoin’s trade volume and market cap dwarf those of other alternative crypo currencies. Although this is true, I feel like this is very dangerous reasoning for determining the future of a cryptocoin and should not be a large factor of your decision. Have you ever heard of the banks that are “too big to fail”? This is the kind of reasoning this reminds me of. Does anyone remember when Facebook came out of nowhere and made Myspace obsolete? Blockbuster got killed by Netflix and Redbox. Dell, once a leader in the IT sector has fallen behind its competitors. Kodak’s stock price is about 96% lower than it was in 1997 due to the advent of personal printers, improvements in software, and file sharing. Microsoft was at the forefront of technology at one point, and now they are playing catch up when it comes to search engines, internet video, ebooks, smartphones, and tablet PCs. Motorola was huge when mobile telephones first came out, yet they failed to focus on smartphones with new features and rapidly lost market share to companies like Apple, LG, and Samsung. Sears got huge by sending out catalogs and allowing customers to order things from home, but failed to capitalize when ecommerce became much more popular to consumers. A Sony Walkman used to be today’s iPod. Yahoo… Toys R Us… need I say more?

For this section, I like to do the grandma test. Go call your grandmother and ask her about Bitcoins (or any other older person). More times than not statistically speaking, you will get a "what is that" answer. The crypto eco-system is so very new, that all of these gimmicks at the end of the day really dont matter. What matters is being safe and brand recognition, which LTC have both of which is light years ahead of other alts (with the exception of dogecoin and Bitcoin). I mention this because you are talking about VERY WELL established companies that are uplifted by new comers. But how do you uplift a new comer by another new comer? Maybe sometime in the future, when BTC and LTC are accepted worldwide and I can pay my phone and electric bill with them, these new payment systems would be awesome! But also by that time, BTC and LTC will already be accepted by these companies.....so I really fail to see the argument here.

Well.. my grandmother knows about Bitcoin, but that is just because she has a crypto nut as a grandson! I understand what you are saying here though, the majority certainly haven't. I don't like that you keep referring to all innovations as gimmicks, this is a common misconception in my opinion. I suggest you really look deep into what some of these newer projects are doing and you will find that some of them are more than just gimmicks. I agree brand recognition and security are important, but this goes along with my "if you build it they will come" mantra. I feel like this will work itself out over time for the newer currencies if they are successful and do what they plan to do well.

As more people find out about Bitcoin they are more likely to find out about these other projects. In my opinion.. at first glance they will find some of the newer projects much more interesting or investment worthy. I know that I am not alone in this line of thinking, but I am obviously not trying to speak for everyone. We're just speculating here right? I try to base my opinions and speculation off of facts, but it is necessary to connect the dots to speculate accurately.

Brand recognition and the network effect can be very strong, but it is not nearly as strong for Litecoin as it is Bitcoin. I feel like this is another common misconception. Bitcoin's network effect stretches much wider than Bitcointalk and a few articles on Google News, and you can't really say the same for Litecoin... at least not nearly to the same extent.

Also I'm not buying the Bicoin/Litecoin is accepted at more places argument as a argument for it being a good long term investment. Sure, maybe for a short term investment, as it is true that currently Bitcoin/Litecoin are accepted at more places than any other crypto. However, for reasons I've already outlined I am certain that will change. I will go over them quickly... businesses are in the business of making money. The businesses that give their customers the most options to pay will likely be the most popular. Have you ever walked into a store or gas station that only accepts cash and you don't have any? Wouldn't it be convenient to also be able to use your debit card? Now replace cash and debit card with different cryptocoins and you see where I am going. Consumers will demand more payment options, therefore businesses will demand more payment options from the payment processors, consequently payment processors will adopt more cryptos as time goes on. Right now they are not really jumping at it (well.. except for coinpayments), however I feel like that is because it is hard to tell which currencies they should add and which ones they should not. Over time the newer, innovative, best of the best, cryptos will become more apparent as they slide up the market cap list, and this is when they will be merged into some of the larger payment processors like Bitpay. I think Bitpay is reluctant to add more coins because they are one of the biggest lobbiers for Bitcoin and to add a bunch of coins the common users don't know much about might hurt their image in the Bitcoin community or confuse their customers. Over time as the public gets more educated on cryptos I believe they will have to add more payment options or succumb to irrelevancy. I also feel like this applies to exchanges as well. They are in the business of making money, so the more cryptos they add then the more trading that will take place and the more money they will make because of adding new cryptos. I even think they will eventually allow you to fund your account for different cryptos.. goes along the same train of thought as payment processors. The most forward thinking payment processors and exchanges accept many cryptos (coinpayments.net and btc-e or crypsty just for examples).

Due to rapid technological advancements and the competition being innovative and forward thinking (seeing a pattern here?), companies can become obsolete very fast and I see no reason why this does not (or could not) hold true with crypto currencies. The network effect is very powerful, however I feel like the network effect is exponentially more powerful for Bitcoin than it is for Litecoin. It is Bitcoin that is in the news all day every day, not Litecoin. Although Litecoin does get more attention than most other alternative crypto currencies, I feel this is because they are the guys to beat right now. As you can see in the last paragraph, this could change quickly and this is not a good argument for Litecoin holding its number two spot.

See above please . Although I agree that Litecoin isnt "marketed" as much as Litecoin, but I personally plan to see this change.

Sorry, I know you mean well, but at this time no one can compete with the power of Bitcoin's network effect. It's just not possible.

Although Litecoin may be accepted by more exchanges and merchants than other alternative crypto currencies, the more innovative and valuable ones are sure to follow. Multi coin payment processing is going to become more popular as more coins come out. Having a different payment processor for every crypto currency is just not a smart way of doing things, and the ones that only accept one or two crypto currencies will be less popular with merchants over time. If someone wants to buy something from me with Sex Coin, I am going to want their business as I can simply exchange the Sex Coin for whatever coin I would like. If the consumers have more options to pay, the more likely they are to purchase something. I am sure that I sold a few extra physical Litecoins because I used coinpayments.net which accepts something like 30+ crypto coins. I had it setup to automatically exchange the coins that I didn’t want. It was stupidly easy and got me a little extra business. What merchant wouldn’t want this? They will choose the payment processor that supports the most coins, and the most stubborn payment processors will be slowly phased out. Exchanges make money by people trading crypto currencies (duh, right?). There is no reason they will not keep adding coins to trade alongside other coins to increase their profit. By not adding new coins, whether it’s a scam coin or not, they are leaving money off the table and it makes no sense.

Lets work backwards, if your claim about companies (exchanges and payment processors) is true, then please tell me why certain exchanges will not accept nothing but Bitcoin. And even with that, there are a few major ones (BTC-China) that only accept BTC and LTC (before you go into the Bobby Lee and Charlie argument, I will state that Bobby, while being CEO, can't make these types of decisions solely. It requires the rest of the founders to be on board which were reluctant for a long time).

As far as acceptance, I will go with a somewhat good analogy. Betamax and VHS. Betamax was hands down the better technology, but they didnt have a controlling market share nor did they have the marketing that VHS had.

I think this hasn't happened yet because the exchanges/payment processors can't decide which cryptos to add and which ones not to add. I don't think they want to add something that's could die in a month. So, I think they are taking a very reasonable approach by waiting to see how the market works itself out before jumping on board with other cryptos. As to the major exchanges not accepting or trading some of the newer cryptos.. they have a reputation to uphold as they handle millions of dollars daily. It might prove worrisome to their customers if they were adding coins all the time, as it should be worrisome to them.. if they are adding a lot of coins then they likely aren't vetting them properly. I understand why they have been so slow to accept anything other than Bitcoin.. hell, Litecoin was in the same boat as all the other cryptos until maybe the past year. There were only a handful of exchanges that allowed you to trade it or accept it. In summary, I believe this will work itself out overtime as the newer coins are proven to be secure, and people become more knowledgeable about cryptos.

I don't think the Betamax and VHS example is necessarily applicable to cryptos. In my mind, there is no reason why multiple cryptos can't coexist as long as they provide different features and are useful. Why does one have to dominate and assassinate the other? With multi wallets, multi coin payment processors, exchanges adopting new coins.. there is no reason I can see why there can't be more than one popular crypto.

The Litecoin is silver to Bitcoin’s goal is simply a marketing slogan, nothing more nothing less. You could just as easily say Xcoin is silver to Bitcoin’s gold, and it wouldn’t be an incorrect statement. This thinking is similar to the “Litecoin is too big to fail” dogma, as we’ve seen with many of the technology giants that have been surpassed by innovative and forward thinking competition, this could change very quickly. I don’t look at Litecoin having ATMs as being a huge deal, as most people are looking to install Bitcoin ATMs. For Litecoin to compete with Bitcoin in the ATM space, they need to hope that Bitcoin ATMs are made to support Litecoin. If Bitcoin ATMs can be made to support Litecoin (and duh they can), then there is nothing stopping them from supporting other crypto currencies.

The only people claiming the "Silver to BTC's gold" are mainly trolls (I know you arent a troll, but others are). We have even had people in the community say we need to get away from this slogan because LTC can stand on its own two feet.

As far as the ATM's, they are really nice to see. But lets be honest....because cryptos as a whole are new who REALLY uses these? They are a niche market right now that may explode in the future, but right now are just a gimmick.

The rest of this paragraph can be related to betamax versus VHS again.

I guess we agree on this except for the betamax/vhs comparison.

Yes Litecoin’s network speed dwarfs that of other Scrypt coins, and it is likely much more secure than those. However, I think it is silly to focus on only Scrypt coins. There are other innovative and valuable alternative crypto currencies that are not Scrypt-based. Some of the newer & most popular ones you can’t even mine them at all (like PoS coins). Making that a reason to be better than another ALT coin that does not have mining is like Mike Tyson fighting a baby. You can’t mine those coins, so how is Litecoin being the most secure Scrypt coin a good selling point? Maybe it is a good selling point versus all other Scrypt coins, however most of those are crap and everyone knows it.

I think you mean network hash rate in the first sentence (I'll just assume thats what you mean)?

The problem with PoS coins is that these still arent a great way for distribution. Sure they alleviate the power issue, but you cant distribute these properly. IPO's are nice, for initial investors, and if you had a great marketing team you can get more people to buy, but its still a bad way to distribute. If the distribution can be solved, that coin will blow out LTC and BTC.

Yes, I was referring to the network hash rate.. I'm not sure why I said network speed.

I agree with you about the distribution of PoS coins sometimes being unfair, but honestly there are some PoS coins that are distributed more evenly than PoW coins. Furthermore, everyone has a chance to buy into the IPOs if they want.. it just depends on how risk adverse you are. I think it is unfair when people criticize coins like Nxt because of the initial distribution, since everyone had a chance to buy into the IPO.. it was posted on the forums for at least a month.

Furthermore, I feel like this same comparison can be made about Bitcoin or Litecoin. Those that weren't around 2-3 years ago might feel the same way about them being unfairly distributed to early adopters, but technically we can all agree that they had a fair release. I don't think it makes much sense to thwart innovation just to give more people time to buy into it, that will only set the crypto community back. I mean.. honestly with all the IPOs today, even if the Nxt IPO was still open today would you be risk prone enough to invest in it? I don't think many people would.. they see IPO and automatically call it a scam, however out of IPOs can come truly innovative ground breaking cyptos. I am really excited about some of the IPOs that are available today, and I don't think it's a good idea to write them all off.

Litecoin is not a back up to Bitcoin. If a huge flaw is found in Bitcoin and someone attacks it, Litecoin is likely to share that flaw. I always thought Litecoin would be a good backup if Bitcoin somehow was flawed because of it using a different algorithm. After learning more about this, I do not feel that is the case anymore. The encryption algorithm is the least likely place that a huge vulnerability will found. Cryptography is studied in academia much more so than Bitcoin’s source code, and the best and brightest are studying it... cryptography is no walk in the park. Short of quantum computing, which is unfeasible in the next 30 to 40 years, the encryption algorithm will not be the weak link. Furthermore, since Litecoin feels so apt to follow in Bitcoin’s steps, a huge percentage of the code base is shared by the two. If one goes down, the other is likely to follow. You may say… well if Bitcoin dies then all crypto currencies are doomed, but I am not so sure that is the case. Where other companies have failed, others have gone on to innovate and change the industry forever, even becoming bigger and better than their predecessors. Crypto currencies will certainly take a hit if Bitcoin dies, however it will not be the end of this movement I am certain of that.

I already stated that the code used is I think 2 versions behind in case there was a serious flaw. With the amount of talent in both coins I seriously doubt there is any issues however. But the added advantage is again all the devs work together to help both coins.

FYI quantum computing will be coming sooner than 30-40 years..........

And if BTC dies it may not kill the movement, but we will see a SERIOUS setback as a whole. To state otherwise is just ignorance.

Litecoin being 2 versions behind Bitcoin doesn't necessary mean that it is prone to vulnerabilities, as new vulnerabilities could be found in old code. Someone that knew a vulnerability in said code could attack Bitcoin and Litecoin at the same time- there would be no time for Litecoin to react. I heard a good example the other day of how back up systems are made for the auto pilot system in planes. There is the main system and then a back up system, both of which are designed and developed by two different companies using entirely different code base. This just makes since to me how this would be more robust than two versions of practically the same thing minus some changes here and there. This is why I don't see Litecoin as a good back up plan for Bitcoin- I myself see either Nxt or a CryptoNote coin as a more appropriate candidate (there are others, but this post is already very long and my fingers hurt!)

As to the Litecoin Association being a good reason to support Litecoin… are you kidding me? Have you seen all the drama and mess the Bitcoin Foundation has had going on... I’m sure everyone has. I would venture to say that at this point the Bitcoin Foundation is hurting Bitcoin more than it is supporting it. When people form centralized foundations for decentralized technologies, it goes against the original spirit of decentralization and crypto currencies for which Satoshi set precedent for. As to Litecoin having a better community than any other alternative crypto currency, I beg to differ. I never felt welcomed, and was often chastized for my opinions. Although Coblee was very nice when I met him at the Bitcoin 2013 conference, he literally ignored me after that. Even when I was pleading to the developers to comment on adding new features to Litecoin. Honestly, before Litecoin jumped up in price in November/December 2012, Coblee was nowhere to be seen in the Litecoin community. Once the price started to rise he suddenly showed up and started making an effort. I have no problem with that, but I couldn’t help but notice the coincidence. Anytime I tried to bring up controversial opinions or suggestions I was met with opposition mostly from early adopters. Furthermore, I feel like the Litecoin community is a big “click” and the really early adopters are much more likely to support each other on controversial matters than new users, and this is alarming considering Coblee is in this group. For instance, Coblee seemed genuinely excited and even encouraged me to make my physical Litecoins at the Bitcoin conference in 2013, even stating that he wanted one! He completely ignored me after this, only replying to one of my controversial posts when the ASIC debate was at its peak. I have seen him supporting Smoothie and his ventures, and even the new “Coinographic” guy, but he never once supported me publicly- only privately in conversation and then ignored forever. Again, this brings me back to there being a Litecoin “click” that is hard to get into… I couldn’t even after spilling blood, sweat, and tears for them.

This really hurts man and you know better. I as a main member of the Litecoin Association you know very well that we operate in a completely different atmosphere than the Bitcoin Foundation. The LA, unlike the TBF, are not associated with the developers. We are here to educate and help both LTC and cryptos as a whole. This can be shown by the MANY initiatives we are involved in from charities, to community projects, to marketing and public education. None of us are paid for our work at all. And we have raised thousands of dollars to help quite a number of people and organizations. The LA also hosts and pays for Litecointalk on top of that. We have raised funds for the development team as well, who in turn donated to the P2Pool developer which helps BTC and other coins that use the code.

As far as your business and interactions with Coblee, I can't really comment at all since for obvious reasons I wasn't involved in all of that.

I meant no offense to you, and I think it is great that you are working hard for a crypto that you believe in. If more people were like that in the crypto world, it would accelerate adoption exponentially. Unfortunately, in general people are lazy (not just in the crypto world) or have real life things that keep them busy.

I know you have good intentions with the Litecoin Association, but I assure you so did the Bitcoin Foundation (and probably still do.) The problem is tying real life identities to the face of crypto currencies is just another attack vector for the haters and naysayers (the anti-Bitcoin/Litecoin people). As we saw with Charlie Shrem's arrest, some headlines mistakenly read "CEO of Bitcoin arrested" or "Important Bitcoin person arrested", that reflect poorly on Bitcoin as a whole. It is sad because it really shouldn't, Charlies actions were those of his own. The same could be said about Mark Karpeles when Mt. Gox when down, as he was also a board member of the Bitcoin Foundation. This is my main grudge with forming foundations to represent and promote cryptos, because if they (or their members) are ever to do something wrong, then it will reflect on the crypto poorly. Maybe not inside the crypto community, but the media will have a field day with these sorts of things like they have in the past.

I suggest decentralizing the Litecoin Association, and using pseudonyms for representation.. like perhaps your forum names. That way if any of you are ever to run into trouble (shit happens), then your name in real life is less likely to be tied to the Litecoin Association or Litecoin.

Faster block times are no longer a good selling point, as there are other coins with faster block times that don’t have a huge problem with stales etcetera. Anywhere in between a minute and two and a half minute block time does not suffer from the things that Litecoin says will happen if they go any faster, at least not to the point where it is a huge problem. Everyone knows by now that Litecoin confirmations are less secure than Bitcoin confirmations. Furthermore, many Bitcoin payment processors process payments without any or as little as 1 confirmation, making some Bitcoin payments instant. I don’t see this as good as a feature I had originally thought, as many coins have come out that were faster and didn’t completely fail. Along this same line of thinking, the statement that Litecoin had a fair release… how is that even a feature? That is just default common sense for any developer developing a crypto currency if they want it to succeed. Not having a fair release is a sure way to death, as was learned with the alternative crypto currencies that came before Litecoin. Since Litecoin was released, I feel like there were numerous even more fair releases than Litecoin. So again, this argument lost its appeal to me.

Not really sure what the argument here is. You used the argument that we are a copy of BTC, now you are saying we are BTC with a few extra incentives (faster block times). So small innovations like this arent work mentioning and instead used as a argument AGAINST BTC?

The thing is that these weren't really innovations.. people had already made cryptos to do these things before. Litecoin just combined them into a pretty package.. the definition of innovation is subjective, but that is not innovation to me. The amount of code that needs to be edited to make those changes is quite small in comparison to the entire code base of Litecoin.

"Everyone knows by now that Litecoin confirmations are less secure than Bitcoin confirmations." -->  This statement is pure bullshit and has no basis what so ever. I am not even sure where you came up with this. As a matter of fact, there was a coindesk article that stated a company has found a way to REVERSE BTC payments, which has a much lesser chance of succeeding with LTC.

Technically 1 Litecoin confirmation is 1/4 as secure as 1 Bitcoin confirmation, this is what I was alluding to. Six confirmations on the Bitcoin network are not equivalent to six confirmations on the Litecoin network, so Litecoin payments are usually confirmed after more confirmations on websites and services.

For those of you that think this may be FUD, I can tell you I currently do not have a balance above zero in any crypto currencies, and this is my non biased opinion of Litecoin and why I have stopped supporting it. Again, I must stress it was a hard decision as I have been supporting it for so long, and even got some of my friends and family invested. I am starting to regret that now, I am going to have to point them to this paper as I would feel horrible if they are left holding the bag. I can only really suggest Bitcoin at this point, anything else is really risky and it’s too early to tell who will rise to the top. I suggest putting a small percentage of your coins into projects you find interesting or innovative. It is going to take something truly innovative to supplant Bitcoin, and by coincidence Litecoin as well since they are content blindly following Bitcoin. I have a feeling this day will come sooner than we all think.

I dont really consider it FUD (except the LTC confirms you stated in the last part, I have no idea where you came up with that), but it is in no way unbiased. You claimed you were "shunned" by the community because some people didnt agree with you trying to get gimmicks incorporated into the Litecoin code base (which again would require a hard fork, which I again have addressed). And you have some sort of feud with smoothie, which im not touching with a 100 foot pole because thats between you and him.

All in all good post and I appreciate the time you put into this. But this is really nothing that I have not seen nor addressed before. I took extra time in addressing you because you put a tremendous amount of non-trolling effort into this.

As for your last few comments, you are really doing you family and friends a disservice by not getting them involved with LTC. The coin itself will increase in value BUT more importantly it can and will be used as an alternate form of currency to fiat, as Bitcoin is meant too.

I hope that some of my comments have made you have a change of heart. You know that I personally work very hard for LTC and cryptos, and this infighting of coins does NOTHING for all of us at all.

I guess we may end up agreeing to disagree, but thanks for the honest and thorough effort you put forth with this post. I love talking and thinking about cryptos, so this has been quite enjoyable to me to put my thought process down on paper.

Cheers

[CoinHoarder]

You tried to bring price into the picture as if that really matters. Now you ignore it when I bring up that there were people like you back then saying the same thing you are saying now.

Litecoiners keep bringing this up, but it doesn't make sense to me. The dynamics have changed vastly since then Smoothie, it may not play out the same way this go-around. It is certainly not as clear cut as it was 2 years ago with so many choices in alternative currencies.

[rikkejohn]

My problem with Litecoin is brainwashed subservience, salesmen preaching how to be to be good suck ups in life. That is against fundamental human spirit. Those who got brainwashed are now arrogantly proud of being subservient and want others to do so as well. Exhibit A: Constant reminders of "Silver to Gold". It's bagholders reminding others of how this is a "necessity" or that Litecoin fulfils this necessity and that it will continue to do so because of .... (yah right, nothing).

The other problem is how mining hardware centralization is being obfuscated as essential component for network security. Who the fuck are you clowns kidding? Expanding on this is an insult to crypto knowhow. Yah Bitcoin got way with it. Bitcoin will continue to get away with it in all probability because crypto in general is niche even now with Bitcoin awareness and slow adoption.

My biggest problem with Litecoin is the continued condescension of the vocal minority who ensure that Litecoin will never go anywhere because of them. Every single coin is branded as "Remember Auroracoin" or "Dogecoin jokes" and dismissed in their typical arrogance. Their heads are so far up their asses, that they have forgotten it stinks. Who the fuck wants to be part of this type of community? Why should I exchange goods with this type of coin holder if I am a business?

Broadly speaking there will be two prominent blockchains.

Trasparent -> BTC. King of them all and should be forever.
Non Transparent -> No established dominant chain acceptance yet.

In the future Litecoin will have to come up with different marketing jargons. Silver is not going to do it. Just wait till the smart start cashing out, the reality sinking at $5 and then the blind faithful finally capitulating around $1.

"Subservience" ... yet you are distinctly subservient to BTC ....

[rikkejohn]

Other than price speculation, please give me one reason to buy LTC over BTC.  That is why is will die a slow death.

LOL...read through the thread. There have been AMPLE reasons stated.

Stop lying to the guy please.

Litecoin  has no adoption, there are no major stores accepting it at all.

Litecoin has no innovative features, it's only feature was ASIC resistance, and it's now being raped by scrypt ASIC's...

Litecoin also has no "dev team", we can safely say Litecoin's original Dev abandoned the project years ago, as almost no updates was made to the code software..

Anyone who actually buys Litecoin is a dumbass and as you can see since it feel over 80%, they're going to end up loosing a lot of money...It's worthless.

Your sentences don't really make sense, but the gist is LTC is a dumbass buy, and no stores accept it.

Great argument, especially since I can't spend BTC either (please don't quote a string of outlets across the world because I live here, not in all of those places, and I don't want to buy their goods anyway).

LTC has tumbled,but  not so long ago it was double the exchange rate against BTC.

Your evidence is not evidence, it is assertion, based on what you think is the case.

[darkota]

Other than price speculation, please give me one reason to buy LTC over BTC.  That is why is will die a slow death.

LOL...read through the thread. There have been AMPLE reasons stated.

Stop lying to the guy please.

Litecoin  has no adoption, there are no major stores accepting it at all.

Litecoin has no innovative features, it's only feature was ASIC resistance, and it's now being raped by scrypt ASIC's...

Litecoin also has no "dev team", we can safely say Litecoin's original Dev abandoned the project years ago, as almost no updates was made to the code software..

Anyone who actually buys Litecoin is a dumbass and as you can see since it feel over 80%, they're going to end up loosing a lot of money...It's worthless.

Your sentences don't really make sense, but the gist is LTC is a dumbass buy, and no stores accept it.

Great argument, especially since I can't spend BTC either (please don't quote a string of outlets across the world because I live here, not in all of those places, and I don't want to buy their goods anyway).

LTC has tumbled,but  not so long ago it was double the exchange rate against BTC.

Your evidence is not evidence, it is assertion, based on what you think is the case.

Interesting...I don't know if you're just trolling or just fucking stupid....

But, when I say Litecoin is accepted by no major stores, I mean ONLINE and In real life.

You can buy computers etc etc online with Bitcoin through Overstock, Tigerdirect, Bitcoinstore, and thousands of others.

You can't buy any of those things with Litecoin, because it's not accepted there.

Litecoin has no adoptance, no innovation, and no dev team. It's a fucking dead coin.

[Saigonsmokes]

Other than price speculation, please give me one reason to buy LTC over BTC.  That is why is will die a slow death.

LOL...read through the thread. There have been AMPLE reasons stated.

Stop lying to the guy please.

Litecoin  has no adoption, there are no major stores accepting it at all.

Litecoin has no innovative features, it's only feature was ASIC resistance, and it's now being raped by scrypt ASIC's...

Litecoin also has no "dev team", we can safely say Litecoin's original Dev abandoned the project years ago, as almost no updates was made to the code software..

Anyone who actually buys Litecoin is a dumbass and as you can see since it feel over 80%, they're going to end up loosing a lot of money...It's worthless.

Is Bitcoin worthless? Its lost over 50% in 6 months. Do you think its worthless then?

Does it look like the development team abandoned Litecoin - MORE FUD

https://github.com/litecoin-project/litecoin

[darkota]

Other than price speculation, please give me one reason to buy LTC over BTC.  That is why is will die a slow death.

LOL...read through the thread. There have been AMPLE reasons stated.

Stop lying to the guy please.

Litecoin  has no adoption, there are no major stores accepting it at all.

Litecoin has no innovative features, it's only feature was ASIC resistance, and it's now being raped by scrypt ASIC's...

Litecoin also has no "dev team", we can safely say Litecoin's original Dev abandoned the project years ago, as almost no updates was made to the code software..

Anyone who actually buys Litecoin is a dumbass and as you can see since it feel over 80%, they're going to end up loosing a lot of money...It's worthless.

Is Bitcoin worthless? Its lost over 50% in 6 months. Do you think its worthless then?

Does it look like the development team abandoned Litecoin - MORE FUD

https://github.com/litecoin-project/litecoin

Wowww, 1 commit and you call that a active dev team? You're joking right....?

Litecoin also has No adoption whatsoever by companies, and it has no innovative features..what about that idiot?

[Saigonsmokes]

Other than price speculation, please give me one reason to buy LTC over BTC.  That is why is will die a slow death.

LOL...read through the thread. There have been AMPLE reasons stated.

Stop lying to the guy please.

Litecoin  has no adoption, there are no major stores accepting it at all.

Litecoin has no innovative features, it's only feature was ASIC resistance, and it's now being raped by scrypt ASIC's...

Litecoin also has no "dev team", we can safely say Litecoin's original Dev abandoned the project years ago, as almost no updates was made to the code software..

Anyone who actually buys Litecoin is a dumbass and as you can see since it feel over 80%, they're going to end up loosing a lot of money...It's worthless.

Your sentences don't really make sense, but the gist is LTC is a dumbass buy, and no stores accept it.

Great argument, especially since I can't spend BTC either (please don't quote a string of outlets across the world because I live here, not in all of those places, and I don't want to buy their goods anyway).

LTC has tumbled,but  not so long ago it was double the exchange rate against BTC.

Your evidence is not evidence, it is assertion, based on what you think is the case.

Interesting...I don't know if you're just trolling or just fucking stupid....

But, when I say Litecoin is accepted by no major stores, I mean ONLINE and In real life.

You can buy computers etc etc online with Bitcoin through Overstock, Tigerdirect, Bitcoinstore, and thousands of others.

You can't buy any of those things with Litecoin, because it's not accepted there.

Litecoin has no adoptance, no innovation, and no dev team. It's a fucking dead coin.

Ok smartass - what major stores NOT ONLINE accepted Bitcoin in November 2013? Lets see what you come up with:)

Is it dead?

Litecoin does not appear dead to me - $280,000.000 market cap - seems dead to me

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=661938.0;topicseen

'FUD WARNING - There seems to be a certain group who go around constantly spreading lies about Litecoin. Most of these new coins coming out are created by the same group who's sole purpose is to pump and dump the coin on you and get as many btc and ltc as they can. DYODD'

[darkota]

Other than price speculation, please give me one reason to buy LTC over BTC.  That is why is will die a slow death.

LOL...read through the thread. There have been AMPLE reasons stated.

Stop lying to the guy please.

Litecoin  has no adoption, there are no major stores accepting it at all.

Litecoin has no innovative features, it's only feature was ASIC resistance, and it's now being raped by scrypt ASIC's...

Litecoin also has no "dev team", we can safely say Litecoin's original Dev abandoned the project years ago, as almost no updates was made to the code software..

Anyone who actually buys Litecoin is a dumbass and as you can see since it feel over 80%, they're going to end up loosing a lot of money...It's worthless.

Your sentences don't really make sense, but the gist is LTC is a dumbass buy, and no stores accept it.

Great argument, especially since I can't spend BTC either (please don't quote a string of outlets across the world because I live here, not in all of those places, and I don't want to buy their goods anyway).

LTC has tumbled,but  not so long ago it was double the exchange rate against BTC.

Your evidence is not evidence, it is assertion, based on what you think is the case.

Interesting...I don't know if you're just trolling or just fucking stupid....

But, when I say Litecoin is accepted by no major stores, I mean ONLINE and In real life.

You can buy computers etc etc online with Bitcoin through Overstock, Tigerdirect, Bitcoinstore, and thousands of others.

You can't buy any of those things with Litecoin, because it's not accepted there.

Litecoin has no adoptance, no innovation, and no dev team. It's a fucking dead coin.

Ok smartass - what major stores NOT ONLINE accepted Bitcoin in November 2013? Is it dead?

Litecoin does not appear dead to me - $280,000.000 market cap - seems dead to me

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=661938.0;topicseen

'FUD WARNING - There seems to be a certain group who go around constantly spreading lies about Litecoin. Most of these new coins coming out are created by the same group who's sole purpose is to pump and dump the coin on you and get as many btc and ltc as they can. DYODD'

Are you stupid....Bitcoin was accepted by Many major stores..since 2012.

Litecoin hasnt been accepted by even 1.

Litecoin dropped more than 80% in price in a few months.

Are you stupid or trolling..

[Saigonsmokes]

Other than price speculation, please give me one reason to buy LTC over BTC.  That is why is will die a slow death.

LOL...read through the thread. There have been AMPLE reasons stated.

Stop lying to the guy please.

Litecoin  has no adoption, there are no major stores accepting it at all.

Litecoin has no innovative features, it's only feature was ASIC resistance, and it's now being raped by scrypt ASIC's...

Litecoin also has no "dev team", we can safely say Litecoin's original Dev abandoned the project years ago, as almost no updates was made to the code software..

Anyone who actually buys Litecoin is a dumbass and as you can see since it feel over 80%, they're going to end up loosing a lot of money...It's worthless.

Is Bitcoin worthless? Its lost over 50% in 6 months. Do you think its worthless then?

Does it look like the development team abandoned Litecoin - MORE FUD

https://github.com/litecoin-project/litecoin

Wowww, 1 commit and you call that a active dev team? You're joking right....?

Litecoin also has No adoption whatsoever by companies, and it has no innovative features..what about that idiot?

Idiot lol - who does not support Litecoin but spends all day writing about Litecoin - you have been proven to be a liar when you said you only deleted 2 posts in your self moderated thread - what do you have to say about that.

https://bitcointa.lk/threads/litecoin-is-officially-dead.331214/page-5

[darkota]

Other than price speculation, please give me one reason to buy LTC over BTC.  That is why is will die a slow death.

LOL...read through the thread. There have been AMPLE reasons stated.

Stop lying to the guy please.

Litecoin  has no adoption, there are no major stores accepting it at all.

Litecoin has no innovative features, it's only feature was ASIC resistance, and it's now being raped by scrypt ASIC's...

Litecoin also has no "dev team", we can safely say Litecoin's original Dev abandoned the project years ago, as almost no updates was made to the code software..

Anyone who actually buys Litecoin is a dumbass and as you can see since it feel over 80%, they're going to end up loosing a lot of money...It's worthless.

Is Bitcoin worthless? Its lost over 50% in 6 months. Do you think its worthless then?

Does it look like the development team abandoned Litecoin - MORE FUD

https://github.com/litecoin-project/litecoin

Wowww, 1 commit and you call that a active dev team? You're joking right....?

Litecoin also has No adoption whatsoever by companies, and it has no innovative features..what about that idiot?

Idiot lol - who does not support Litecoin but spends all day writing about Litecoin - you have been proven to be a liar when you said you only deleted 2 posts in your self moderated thread - what do you have to say about that.

https://bitcointa.lk/threads/litecoin-is-officially-dead.331214/page-5

What do you have to say about Litecoin having no innovation, no adoptance, and a absent dev team....oh yea nothing cause you avoided giving responses to those statements because they're....wait for it....True. Dumbass.

[Saigonsmokes]

Other than price speculation, please give me one reason to buy LTC over BTC.  That is why is will die a slow death.

LOL...read through the thread. There have been AMPLE reasons stated.

Stop lying to the guy please.

Litecoin  has no adoption, there are no major stores accepting it at all.

Litecoin has no innovative features, it's only feature was ASIC resistance, and it's now being raped by scrypt ASIC's...

Litecoin also has no "dev team", we can safely say Litecoin's original Dev abandoned the project years ago, as almost no updates was made to the code software..

Anyone who actually buys Litecoin is a dumbass and as you can see since it feel over 80%, they're going to end up loosing a lot of money...It's worthless.

Your sentences don't really make sense, but the gist is LTC is a dumbass buy, and no stores accept it.

Great argument, especially since I can't spend BTC either (please don't quote a string of outlets across the world because I live here, not in all of those places, and I don't want to buy their goods anyway).

LTC has tumbled,but  not so long ago it was double the exchange rate against BTC.

Your evidence is not evidence, it is assertion, based on what you think is the case.

Interesting...I don't know if you're just trolling or just fucking stupid....

But, when I say Litecoin is accepted by no major stores, I mean ONLINE and In real life.

You can buy computers etc etc online with Bitcoin through Overstock, Tigerdirect, Bitcoinstore, and thousands of others.

You can't buy any of those things with Litecoin, because it's not accepted there.

Litecoin has no adoptance, no innovation, and no dev team. It's a fucking dead coin.

Ok smartass - what major stores NOT ONLINE accepted Bitcoin in November 2013? Is it dead?

Litecoin does not appear dead to me - $280,000.000 market cap - seems dead to me

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=661938.0;topicseen

'FUD WARNING - There seems to be a certain group who go around constantly spreading lies about Litecoin. Most of these new coins coming out are created by the same group who's sole purpose is to pump and dump the coin on you and get as many btc and ltc as they can. DYODD'

Are you stupid....Bitcoin was accepted by Many major stores..since 2012.
- What major stores?
Litecoin hasnt been accepted by even 1.

Litecoin dropped more than 80% in price in a few months. And Bitcoin dropped what 60% which you keep ignoring

Are you stupid or trolling..

[darkota]

Other than price speculation, please give me one reason to buy LTC over BTC.  That is why is will die a slow death.

LOL...read through the thread. There have been AMPLE reasons stated.

Stop lying to the guy please.

Litecoin  has no adoption, there are no major stores accepting it at all.

Litecoin has no innovative features, it's only feature was ASIC resistance, and it's now being raped by scrypt ASIC's...

Litecoin also has no "dev team", we can safely say Litecoin's original Dev abandoned the project years ago, as almost no updates was made to the code software..

Anyone who actually buys Litecoin is a dumbass and as you can see since it feel over 80%, they're going to end up loosing a lot of money...It's worthless.

Your sentences don't really make sense, but the gist is LTC is a dumbass buy, and no stores accept it.

Great argument, especially since I can't spend BTC either (please don't quote a string of outlets across the world because I live here, not in all of those places, and I don't want to buy their goods anyway).

LTC has tumbled,but  not so long ago it was double the exchange rate against BTC.

Your evidence is not evidence, it is assertion, based on what you think is the case.

Interesting...I don't know if you're just trolling or just fucking stupid....

But, when I say Litecoin is accepted by no major stores, I mean ONLINE and In real life.

You can buy computers etc etc online with Bitcoin through Overstock, Tigerdirect, Bitcoinstore, and thousands of others.

You can't buy any of those things with Litecoin, because it's not accepted there.

Litecoin has no adoptance, no innovation, and no dev team. It's a fucking dead coin.

Ok smartass - what major stores NOT ONLINE accepted Bitcoin in November 2013? Is it dead?

Litecoin does not appear dead to me - $280,000.000 market cap - seems dead to me

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=661938.0;topicseen

'FUD WARNING - There seems to be a certain group who go around constantly spreading lies about Litecoin. Most of these new coins coming out are created by the same group who's sole purpose is to pump and dump the coin on you and get as many btc and ltc as they can. DYODD'

Are you stupid....Bitcoin was accepted by Many major stores..since 2012.
- What major stores?
Litecoin hasnt been accepted by even 1.

Litecoin dropped more than 80% in price in a few months. And Bitcoin dropped what 60% which you keep ignoring

Are you stupid or trolling..

Bitcoin was accepted by Overstock back then. A major store.

Bitcoin dropped 60%, but rebounded to $700 recently.

Litecoin just dropped.....and dropped.....and dropped....and is gonna keep dropping till it hits 0.

[Saigonsmokes]

Other than price speculation, please give me one reason to buy LTC over BTC.  That is why is will die a slow death.

LOL...read through the thread. There have been AMPLE reasons stated.

Stop lying to the guy please.

Litecoin  has no adoption, there are no major stores accepting it at all.

Litecoin has no innovative features, it's only feature was ASIC resistance, and it's now being raped by scrypt ASIC's...

Litecoin also has no "dev team", we can safely say Litecoin's original Dev abandoned the project years ago, as almost no updates was made to the code software..

Anyone who actually buys Litecoin is a dumbass and as you can see since it feel over 80%, they're going to end up loosing a lot of money...It's worthless.

Is Bitcoin worthless? Its lost over 50% in 6 months. Do you think its worthless then?

Does it look like the development team abandoned Litecoin - MORE FUD

https://github.com/litecoin-project/litecoin

Wowww, 1 commit and you call that a active dev team? You're joking right....?

Litecoin also has No adoption whatsoever by companies, and it has no innovative features..what about that idiot?

Idiot lol - who does not support Litecoin but spends all day writing about Litecoin - you have been proven to be a liar when you said you only deleted 2 posts in your self moderated thread - what do you have to say about that.

https://bitcointa.lk/threads/litecoin-is-officially-dead.331214/page-5

What do you have to say about Litecoin having no innovation, no adoptance, and a absent dev team....oh yea nothing cause you avoided giving responses to those statements because they're....wait for it....True. Dumbass.

Oh I answered you before about them - IN YOUR SELF MODERATED THREAD that you deleted, along with 20+ other responses:)

Go back to pumping your coins in the hope of dumping them - not going to happen buddy:)

[darkota]

Other than price speculation, please give me one reason to buy LTC over BTC.  That is why is will die a slow death.

LOL...read through the thread. There have been AMPLE reasons stated.

Stop lying to the guy please.

Litecoin  has no adoption, there are no major stores accepting it at all.

Litecoin has no innovative features, it's only feature was ASIC resistance, and it's now being raped by scrypt ASIC's...

Litecoin also has no "dev team", we can safely say Litecoin's original Dev abandoned the project years ago, as almost no updates was made to the code software..

Anyone who actually buys Litecoin is a dumbass and as you can see since it feel over 80%, they're going to end up loosing a lot of money...It's worthless.

Is Bitcoin worthless? Its lost over 50% in 6 months. Do you think its worthless then?

Does it look like the development team abandoned Litecoin - MORE FUD

https://github.com/litecoin-project/litecoin

Wowww, 1 commit and you call that a active dev team? You're joking right....?

Litecoin also has No adoption whatsoever by companies, and it has no innovative features..what about that idiot?

Idiot lol - who does not support Litecoin but spends all day writing about Litecoin - you have been proven to be a liar when you said you only deleted 2 posts in your self moderated thread - what do you have to say about that.

https://bitcointa.lk/threads/litecoin-is-officially-dead.331214/page-5

What do you have to say about Litecoin having no innovation, no adoptance, and a absent dev team....oh yea nothing cause you avoided giving responses to those statements because they're....wait for it....True. Dumbass.

Oh I answered you before about them - IN YOUR SELF MODERATED THREAD that you deleted, along with 20+ other responses:)

Go back to pumping your coins in the hope of dumping them - not going to happen buddy:)

You didnt answer any question. All you've ever done in that thread was SPAM pics and posts of useless content. Nice try, buddy.

[Saigonsmokes]

Other than price speculation, please give me one reason to buy LTC over BTC.  That is why is will die a slow death.

LOL...read through the thread. There have been AMPLE reasons stated.

Stop lying to the guy please.

Litecoin  has no adoption, there are no major stores accepting it at all.

Litecoin has no innovative features, it's only feature was ASIC resistance, and it's now being raped by scrypt ASIC's...

Litecoin also has no "dev team", we can safely say Litecoin's original Dev abandoned the project years ago, as almost no updates was made to the code software..

Anyone who actually buys Litecoin is a dumbass and as you can see since it feel over 80%, they're going to end up loosing a lot of money...It's worthless.

Your sentences don't really make sense, but the gist is LTC is a dumbass buy, and no stores accept it.

Great argument, especially since I can't spend BTC either (please don't quote a string of outlets across the world because I live here, not in all of those places, and I don't want to buy their goods anyway).

LTC has tumbled,but  not so long ago it was double the exchange rate against BTC.

Your evidence is not evidence, it is assertion, based on what you think is the case.

Interesting...I don't know if you're just trolling or just fucking stupid....

But, when I say Litecoin is accepted by no major stores, I mean ONLINE and In real life.

You can buy computers etc etc online with Bitcoin through Overstock, Tigerdirect, Bitcoinstore, and thousands of others.

You can't buy any of those things with Litecoin, because it's not accepted there.

Litecoin has no adoptance, no innovation, and no dev team. It's a fucking dead coin.

Ok smartass - what major stores NOT ONLINE accepted Bitcoin in November 2013? Is it dead?

Litecoin does not appear dead to me - $280,000.000 market cap - seems dead to me

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=661938.0;topicseen

'FUD WARNING - There seems to be a certain group who go around constantly spreading lies about Litecoin. Most of these new coins coming out are created by the same group who's sole purpose is to pump and dump the coin on you and get as many btc and ltc as they can. DYODD'

Are you stupid....Bitcoin was accepted by Many major stores..since 2012.
- What major stores?
Litecoin hasnt been accepted by even 1.

Litecoin dropped more than 80% in price in a few months. And Bitcoin dropped what 60% which you keep ignoring

Are you stupid or trolling..

Bitcoin was accepted by Overstock back then. A major store.

Bitcoin dropped 60%, but rebounded to $700 recently.

Litecoin just dropped.....and dropped.....and dropped....and is gonna keep dropping till it hits 0.

You said many major stores - the one you listed did not accept Bitcoin in November, try again - and try more than 1 as you are so confident

http://www.businessinsider.com/overstock-bitcoin-2014-1
https://twitter.com/OverstockCEO/status/421754592427139072

Any more lies:) Just like you deleted 20+ posts in your thread and denied it:) PUMP PUMP PUMP AND DUMP THOSE CRAP COINS

[darkota]

Other than price speculation, please give me one reason to buy LTC over BTC.  That is why is will die a slow death.

LOL...read through the thread. There have been AMPLE reasons stated.

Stop lying to the guy please.

Litecoin  has no adoption, there are no major stores accepting it at all.

Litecoin has no innovative features, it's only feature was ASIC resistance, and it's now being raped by scrypt ASIC's...

Litecoin also has no "dev team", we can safely say Litecoin's original Dev abandoned the project years ago, as almost no updates was made to the code software..

Anyone who actually buys Litecoin is a dumbass and as you can see since it feel over 80%, they're going to end up loosing a lot of money...It's worthless.

Your sentences don't really make sense, but the gist is LTC is a dumbass buy, and no stores accept it.

Great argument, especially since I can't spend BTC either (please don't quote a string of outlets across the world because I live here, not in all of those places, and I don't want to buy their goods anyway).

LTC has tumbled,but  not so long ago it was double the exchange rate against BTC.

Your evidence is not evidence, it is assertion, based on what you think is the case.

Interesting...I don't know if you're just trolling or just fucking stupid....

But, when I say Litecoin is accepted by no major stores, I mean ONLINE and In real life.

You can buy computers etc etc online with Bitcoin through Overstock, Tigerdirect, Bitcoinstore, and thousands of others.

You can't buy any of those things with Litecoin, because it's not accepted there.

Litecoin has no adoptance, no innovation, and no dev team. It's a fucking dead coin.

Ok smartass - what major stores NOT ONLINE accepted Bitcoin in November 2013? Is it dead?

Litecoin does not appear dead to me - $280,000.000 market cap - seems dead to me

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=661938.0;topicseen

'FUD WARNING - There seems to be a certain group who go around constantly spreading lies about Litecoin. Most of these new coins coming out are created by the same group who's sole purpose is to pump and dump the coin on you and get as many btc and ltc as they can. DYODD'

Are you stupid....Bitcoin was accepted by Many major stores..since 2012.
- What major stores?
Litecoin hasnt been accepted by even 1.

Litecoin dropped more than 80% in price in a few months. And Bitcoin dropped what 60% which you keep ignoring

Are you stupid or trolling..

Bitcoin was accepted by Overstock back then. A major store.

Bitcoin dropped 60%, but rebounded to $700 recently.

Litecoin just dropped.....and dropped.....and dropped....and is gonna keep dropping till it hits 0.

You said many major stores - the one you listed did not accept Bitcoin in November, try again - and try more than 1 as you are so confident

http://www.businessinsider.com/overstock-bitcoin-2014-1
https://twitter.com/OverstockCEO/status/421754592427139072

Any more lies:)

I'm talking about December.

Bitcoin is accepted at over 40,000 stores worldwide.

Litecoin is accepted at 40 stores worldwide.

Peercoin is accepted at 320 stores worldwide.

Litecoin is useless.

[Saigonsmokes]

Other than price speculation, please give me one reason to buy LTC over BTC.  That is why is will die a slow death.

LOL...read through the thread. There have been AMPLE reasons stated.

Stop lying to the guy please.

Litecoin  has no adoption, there are no major stores accepting it at all.

Litecoin has no innovative features, it's only feature was ASIC resistance, and it's now being raped by scrypt ASIC's...

Litecoin also has no "dev team", we can safely say Litecoin's original Dev abandoned the project years ago, as almost no updates was made to the code software..

Anyone who actually buys Litecoin is a dumbass and as you can see since it feel over 80%, they're going to end up loosing a lot of money...It's worthless.

Your sentences don't really make sense, but the gist is LTC is a dumbass buy, and no stores accept it.

Great argument, especially since I can't spend BTC either (please don't quote a string of outlets across the world because I live here, not in all of those places, and I don't want to buy their goods anyway).

LTC has tumbled,but  not so long ago it was double the exchange rate against BTC.

Your evidence is not evidence, it is assertion, based on what you think is the case.

Interesting...I don't know if you're just trolling or just fucking stupid....

But, when I say Litecoin is accepted by no major stores, I mean ONLINE and In real life.

You can buy computers etc etc online with Bitcoin through Overstock, Tigerdirect, Bitcoinstore, and thousands of others.

You can't buy any of those things with Litecoin, because it's not accepted there.

Litecoin has no adoptance, no innovation, and no dev team. It's a fucking dead coin.

Ok smartass - what major stores NOT ONLINE accepted Bitcoin in November 2013? Is it dead?

Litecoin does not appear dead to me - $280,000.000 market cap - seems dead to me

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=661938.0;topicseen

'FUD WARNING - There seems to be a certain group who go around constantly spreading lies about Litecoin. Most of these new coins coming out are created by the same group who's sole purpose is to pump and dump the coin on you and get as many btc and ltc as they can. DYODD'

Are you stupid....Bitcoin was accepted by Many major stores..since 2012.
- What major stores?
Litecoin hasnt been accepted by even 1.

Litecoin dropped more than 80% in price in a few months. And Bitcoin dropped what 60% which you keep ignoring

Are you stupid or trolling..

Bitcoin was accepted by Overstock back then. A major store.

Bitcoin dropped 60%, but rebounded to $700 recently.

Litecoin just dropped.....and dropped.....and dropped....and is gonna keep dropping till it hits 0.

You said many major stores - the one you listed did not accept Bitcoin in November, try again - and try more than 1 as you are so confident

http://www.businessinsider.com/overstock-bitcoin-2014-1
https://twitter.com/OverstockCEO/status/421754592427139072

Any more lies:)

I'm talking about December.

Bitcoin is accepted at over 40,000 stores worldwide.

Litecoin is accepted at 40 stores worldwide.

Peercoin is accepted at 320 stores worldwide.

Litecoin is useless.

Overstock started in January and I stated November in my post above, try and list 10 major stores who accepted Bitcoin in November, bet you can not:) But on this assumption Bitcoin should be dead soon??

You are just full of lies, you wouln't know one if it jumped up and smacked you in the face.

Another lie plenty of stores accept Litecoin
http://coinmap.org/
http://uselitecoin.com/

OverStock CEO has said he will accept Litecoin.

Litecoin does not look useless or worthless TROLL BOY.

1    Bitcoin   $ 7,548,868,692   $ 583.32   12,941,250 BTC   $ 14,441,149   -1.01 %   
2    Litecoin   $ 285,883,698   $ 9.66   29,595,054 LTC   $ 1,444,971   -0.41 %

Whats even more of a joke - you have been pumping a coin called FANTOMCOIN, yet you declare Litecoin dead. Anyone who wants to see how many posts this joker troll has deleted look here: https://bitcointa.lk/threads/litecoin-is-officially-dead.331214/page-5

These are some of Darkota's recent posts - should he be trusted - hell no!


Are you stupid. It's PoW, then PoS after 20 days. I already instamined 6million in 2 days with my scrypt ASIC and this coin has 1 difficulty, easy as hell to fork or 51% attack etc, since the alog is scrypt for PoW

I sold 10% of my instamine which is what caused the price to drop so much, along with this being a scamcoin, so its down to 60%.

It is already VERY easy to link BTC transactions to people.
Bitcoin is so fucking transparent...its like wearing your bank statements, credit card info, social security number, on you so everyone can see. Thats how transparent bitcoin is.
Anyone who isnt a retard would want an anonymous coin.
- So all Bitcoin holders are retarded?
I just instamined 60% of all Razor coins in existence.
The question is, Should I Dump or should I not Dump?
The arrow is heavily leaning towards DUMP!

[smoothie]

Other than price speculation, please give me one reason to buy LTC over BTC.  That is why is will die a slow death.

LOL...read through the thread. There have been AMPLE reasons stated.

Stop lying to the guy please.

Litecoin  has no adoption, there are no major stores accepting it at all.

Litecoin has no innovative features, it's only feature was ASIC resistance, and it's now being raped by scrypt ASIC's...

Litecoin also has no "dev team", we can safely say Litecoin's original Dev abandoned the project years ago, as almost no updates was made to the code software..

Anyone who actually buys Litecoin is a dumbass and as you can see since it feel over 80%, they're going to end up loosing a lot of money...It's worthless.

Your absolute statement is false.

I adopted Litecoin...so therefore there is at least some adoption. LOL

[smoothie]

Other than price speculation, please give me one reason to buy LTC over BTC.  That is why is will die a slow death.

LOL...read through the thread. There have been AMPLE reasons stated.

Stop lying to the guy please.

Litecoin  has no adoption, there are no major stores accepting it at all.

Litecoin has no innovative features, it's only feature was ASIC resistance, and it's now being raped by scrypt ASIC's...

Litecoin also has no "dev team", we can safely say Litecoin's original Dev abandoned the project years ago, as almost no updates was made to the code software..

Anyone who actually buys Litecoin is a dumbass and as you can see since it feel over 80%, they're going to end up loosing a lot of money...It's worthless.

innovation =/= success

network effect == success

adoption == success

[smoothie]

Other than price speculation, please give me one reason to buy LTC over BTC.  That is why is will die a slow death.

LOL...read through the thread. There have been AMPLE reasons stated.

Anyone who actually buys Litecoin is a dumbass and as you can see since it feel over 80%, they're going to end up loosing a lot of money...It's worthless.

Yes I bought Litecoin at $0.005 each in 2012 and I have been "loosing" a lot of money since. It is "worthless".

LOL

Let's see in a year where LTC is in respect to today. Current rate is $9.50.

I'll bump this when we get there. June 24th, 2015.

[smoothie]

You tried to bring price into the picture as if that really matters. Now you ignore it when I bring up that there were people like you back then saying the same thing you are saying now.

Litecoiners keep bringing this up, but it doesn't make sense to me. The dynamics have changed vastly since then Smoothie, it may not play out the same way this go-around. It is certainly not as clear cut as it was 2 years ago with so many choices in alternative currencies.

Time will tell buddy.

Time will tell...

It may not or it may...we will see. 

[smoothie]

This thread is filled with illogical trolls lol.

Coinhoarder although you may not be one of those you are one to like to speak on certain things you know nothing about, get called out on it, then claim I insulted you when merely it was pointing out bullshit.

For example saying the smart money isn't exactly "smart" when you yourself have not lived that path in the crypto world.

Lots of talking going on here but I don't see anyone actually doing anything concerning making LTC better. Go fork LTC and see how much support you will get. It is a free market to do so.

Talk is cheap and CH you yourself have done a lot of talking and promise making and failed to keep those so what should anyone expect more than just more of the same.

Of course this is my view based on your past reputation of talking and then not backing it up or failing to follow through on your promises.

Take it for what it is worth...get insulted for all I care just know I am speaking truthfully and if you should get insulted, that wasn't my intention.

My intention is to point out the obvious and to call out bullshit when I see it. You making claims about smart money not being smart when you yourself have failed is bullshit.

This also is addressed to all of the illogical trolls here who make claims they seem to known nothing about aside from they appear to be offended that someone said something they didn't like. Pathetic.

There ...i called it out one last time (i'm sure there is more but I'm going to stop typing here).  

[darkota]

Other than price speculation, please give me one reason to buy LTC over BTC.  That is why is will die a slow death.

LOL...read through the thread. There have been AMPLE reasons stated.

Anyone who actually buys Litecoin is a dumbass and as you can see since it feel over 80%, they're going to end up loosing a lot of money...It's worthless.

Yes I bought Litecoin at $0.005 each in 2012 and I have been "loosing" a lot of money since. It is "worthless".

LOL

Let's see in a year where LTC is in respect to today. Current rate is $9.50.

I'll bump this when we get there. June 24th, 2015.

I know you're lying about buying Litecoin at$0.005 each, but I'll let that go for now...

If you actually bought Litecoin at a price similar to that stated above(which you obviously didnt), then you would of sold when Litcoin hit around $2. It stalled at $2.50 for quite some time....

I know you're just fucking lying, cause if you didnt sell at $2.50, you would of sold at $10, then at $20, then at its ATH of $50.

I know you bought in litecoin around $30, no point in trying to hide that fact smoothie....

Ill bump this thread earlier than June 24th, 2015, when Litecoin hits $1 Ill be sure to bumpity bump.

[CoinHoarder]

This thread is filled with illogical trolls lol.

Coinhoarder although you may not be one of those you are one to like to speak on certain things you know nothing about, get called out on it, then claim I insulted you when merely it was pointing out bullshit.

For example saying the smart money isn't exactly "smart" when you yourself have not lived that path in the crypto world.

Lots of talking going on here but I don't see anyone actually doing anything concerning making LTC better. Go fork LTC and see how much support you will get. It is a free market to do so.

Talk is cheap and CH you yourself have done a lot of talking and promise making and failed to keep those so what should anyone expect more than just more of the same.

Of course this is my view based on your past reputation of talking and then not backing it up or failing to follow through on your promises.

Take it for what it is worth...get insulted for all I care just know I am speaking truthfully and if you should get insulted, that wasn't my intention.

My intention is to point out the obvious and to call out bullshit when I see it. You making claims about smart money not being smart when you yourself have failed is bullshit.

This also is addressed to all of the illogical trolls here who make claims they seem to known nothing about aside from they appear to be offended that someone said something they didn't like. Pathetic.

There ...i called it out one last time (i'm sure there is more but I'm going to stop typing here).  

This post is illogical, seeing as though my choices for cryptocoins have been spot on so far. As I have said, I made some poor life and business decisions, but my decisions as to what cryptos are going to go up or down in value is not one of those. As you say, only time will tell, however if you actually read my arguments then you will see I have a point. If you don't think I have a point, then tell me how I am wrong. The fact that you aren't doing this already makes me realize that you do understand I have a point. Your childish ranting is no better than the illogical trolls you speak of.

Now you are reverting to the same bullshit you were last night and I'm not going to do this again with you. If you want to talk about the topic at hand, then let's do it. Otherwise, you are one of those illogical trolls that you are talking about, and I'm not going to acknowledge you. See your buddy TheMage, he sets a good example and you should follow his lead, because you look like an idiot right now.

[Saigonsmokes]

Other than price speculation, please give me one reason to buy LTC over BTC.  That is why is will die a slow death.

LOL...read through the thread. There have been AMPLE reasons stated.

Anyone who actually buys Litecoin is a dumbass and as you can see since it feel over 80%, they're going to end up loosing a lot of money...It's worthless.

Yes I bought Litecoin at $0.005 each in 2012 and I have been "loosing" a lot of money since. It is "worthless".

LOL

Let's see in a year where LTC is in respect to today. Current rate is $9.50.

I'll bump this when we get there. June 24th, 2015.

I know you're lying about buying Litecoin at$0.005 each, but I'll let that go for now...

If you actually bought Litecoin at a price similar to that stated above(which you obviously didnt), then you would of sold when Litcoin hit around $2. It stalled at $2.50 for quite some time....

I know you're just fucking lying, cause if you didnt sell at $2.50, you would of sold at $10, then at $20, then at its ATH of $50.

I know you bought in litecoin around $30, no point in trying to hide that fact smoothie....

Ill bump this thread earlier than June 24th, 2015, when Litecoin hits $1 Ill be sure to bumpity bump.

Just because you lie all the time does not mean others do not, https://bitcointa.lk/threads/litecoin-is-officially-dead.331214/page-5

Nobody will sell - til we hit $100 or until we can spend it everywhere.

So which MAJOR STORES accepted Bitcoin in November 2013? 

FantomCoin - to the moon:0

[darkota]

Other than price speculation, please give me one reason to buy LTC over BTC.  That is why is will die a slow death.

LOL...read through the thread. There have been AMPLE reasons stated.

Anyone who actually buys Litecoin is a dumbass and as you can see since it feel over 80%, they're going to end up loosing a lot of money...It's worthless.

Yes I bought Litecoin at $0.005 each in 2012 and I have been "loosing" a lot of money since. It is "worthless".

LOL

Let's see in a year where LTC is in respect to today. Current rate is $9.50.

I'll bump this when we get there. June 24th, 2015.

I know you're lying about buying Litecoin at$0.005 each, but I'll let that go for now...

If you actually bought Litecoin at a price similar to that stated above(which you obviously didnt), then you would of sold when Litcoin hit around $2. It stalled at $2.50 for quite some time....

I know you're just fucking lying, cause if you didnt sell at $2.50, you would of sold at $10, then at $20, then at its ATH of $50.

I know you bought in litecoin around $30, no point in trying to hide that fact smoothie....

Ill bump this thread earlier than June 24th, 2015, when Litecoin hits $1 Ill be sure to bumpity bump.

Just because you lie all the time does not mean others do not, https://bitcointa.lk/threads/litecoin-is-officially-dead.331214/page-5

Nobody will sell - til we hit $100 or until we can spend it everywhere.

So which MAJOR STORES accepted Bitcoin in November 2013? 

FantomCoin - to the moon:0

Ok dude, you hold your Litecoin. As I and many others have been saying since Litecoin was $50, it's only going to keep going down without going up.
Today it's $8 for a Litecoin, 2 months from now it's gonna be $5 for a Litecoin. 6 months from now it's going to be $2 per Litecoin.

People never learn...

[smoothie]

Other than price speculation, please give me one reason to buy LTC over BTC.  That is why is will die a slow death.

LOL...read through the thread. There have been AMPLE reasons stated.

Anyone who actually buys Litecoin is a dumbass and as you can see since it feel over 80%, they're going to end up loosing a lot of money...It's worthless.

Yes I bought Litecoin at $0.005 each in 2012 and I have been "loosing" a lot of money since. It is "worthless".

LOL

Let's see in a year where LTC is in respect to today. Current rate is $9.50.

I'll bump this when we get there. June 24th, 2015.

I know you're lying about buying Litecoin at$0.005 each, but I'll let that go for now...

If you actually bought Litecoin at a price similar to that stated above(which you obviously didnt), then you would of sold when Litcoin hit around $2. It stalled at $2.50 for quite some time....

I know you're just fucking lying, cause if you didnt sell at $2.50, you would of sold at $10, then at $20, then at its ATH of $50.

I know you bought in litecoin around $30, no point in trying to hide that fact smoothie....

Ill bump this thread earlier than June 24th, 2015, when Litecoin hits $1 Ill be sure to bumpity bump.

Oh really? You think I am lying? Shows what you know:

SUCCESS BABY! MMM MMM GOOD!
3500 LTC = Papa John's Pizza
 

ORIGINAL LINK: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=90019.msg990960#msg990960

Do the math.

Plus I sold a 6990 card for 25,000 LTC.

You wanna make accusations of me lying? LOL you don't know anything it seems.

[nvaler]

yummy pizza

[Saigonsmokes]

Other than price speculation, please give me one reason to buy LTC over BTC.  That is why is will die a slow death.

LOL...read through the thread. There have been AMPLE reasons stated.

Anyone who actually buys Litecoin is a dumbass and as you can see since it feel over 80%, they're going to end up loosing a lot of money...It's worthless.

Yes I bought Litecoin at $0.005 each in 2012 and I have been "loosing" a lot of money since. It is "worthless".

LOL

Let's see in a year where LTC is in respect to today. Current rate is $9.50.

I'll bump this when we get there. June 24th, 2015.

I know you're lying about buying Litecoin at$0.005 each, but I'll let that go for now...

If you actually bought Litecoin at a price similar to that stated above(which you obviously didnt), then you would of sold when Litcoin hit around $2. It stalled at $2.50 for quite some time....

I know you're just fucking lying, cause if you didnt sell at $2.50, you would of sold at $10, then at $20, then at its ATH of $50.

I know you bought in litecoin around $30, no point in trying to hide that fact smoothie....

Ill bump this thread earlier than June 24th, 2015, when Litecoin hits $1 Ill be sure to bumpity bump.

Just because you lie all the time does not mean others do not, https://bitcointa.lk/threads/litecoin-is-officially-dead.331214/page-5

Nobody will sell - til we hit $100 or until we can spend it everywhere.

So which MAJOR STORES accepted Bitcoin in November 2013?  

FantomCoin - to the moon:0

Ok dude, you hold your Litecoin. As I and many others have been saying since Litecoin was $50, it's only going to keep going down without going up.
Today it's $8 for a Litecoin, 2 months from now it's gonna be $5 for a Litecoin. 6 months from now it's going to be $2 per Litecoin.

People never learn...

Oh you seem to have gone quiet after calling Smoothie a liar:) You need to realise a lot of LTC holders did not buy at $50. The top wallet holders did not sell at $50, they did not sell at $30 - they will hold them as they are confident in LTC future.

When was LTC at $8? More lies. TROLL:)

2    Litecoin   $ 282,575,169   $ 9.55   29,598,154 LTC   $ 1,421,785   

[smoothie]

Other than price speculation, please give me one reason to buy LTC over BTC.  That is why is will die a slow death.

LOL...read through the thread. There have been AMPLE reasons stated.

Anyone who actually buys Litecoin is a dumbass and as you can see since it feel over 80%, they're going to end up loosing a lot of money...It's worthless.

Yes I bought Litecoin at $0.005 each in 2012 and I have been "loosing" a lot of money since. It is "worthless".

LOL

Let's see in a year where LTC is in respect to today. Current rate is $9.50.

I'll bump this when we get there. June 24th, 2015.

I know you're lying about buying Litecoin at$0.005 each, but I'll let that go for now...

If you actually bought Litecoin at a price similar to that stated above(which you obviously didnt), then you would of sold when Litcoin hit around $2. It stalled at $2.50 for quite some time....

I know you're just fucking lying, cause if you didnt sell at $2.50, you would of sold at $10, then at $20, then at its ATH of $50.

I know you bought in litecoin around $30, no point in trying to hide that fact smoothie....

Ill bump this thread earlier than June 24th, 2015, when Litecoin hits $1 Ill be sure to bumpity bump.

Just because you lie all the time does not mean others do not, https://bitcointa.lk/threads/litecoin-is-officially-dead.331214/page-5

Nobody will sell - til we hit $100 or until we can spend it everywhere.

So which MAJOR STORES accepted Bitcoin in November 2013? 

FantomCoin - to the moon:0

Ok dude, you hold your Litecoin. As I and many others have been saying since Litecoin was $50, it's only going to keep going down without going up.
Today it's $8 for a Litecoin, 2 months from now it's gonna be $5 for a Litecoin. 6 months from now it's going to be $2 per Litecoin.

People never learn...

Wanna bet that Litecoin (LTC) will be $2 each or less within 6 months?

We would use the BTC-e price to determine the outcome of this bet.

I'll do an escrowed bet for 2 BTC. Saltyspitton can be our escrow.

To be clear should the price of LTC stay at $2.00 or less for a 48 hour period anytime in the next 6 months you automatically win, otherwise I win.

Bet would end 6 months from now or if the price goes at or below $2.00 and stay there for a continuous 48 hour period.

December 24th 2014 is 6 months from now ...xmas eve.  If you accept this it would be an awesome x-mas present. lol

Chicken?
Put up or shut up.

[smoothie]

LOL you are too funny.

Yes you are so spot on that you didn't follow through on your own calls otherwise you would have been the SMART money?

Anyone can claim "I made a prediction and see I am right." but not actually following through to back up your "spot on" calls by taking on risk.

Risk brings a whole other world/dimension into predictions.

Nice try but your claims about smart money are nothing but bullshit.  

[CoinHoarder]

blah blah blah

Keep skating around the issue at hand. The more you do, the more people will realize that I am right and you are wrong.

[smoothie]

blah blah blah

Keep skating around the issue at hand. The more you do, the more people will realize that I am right and you are wrong.

LOL it isn't even about being right or wrong. It is about calling bullshit of yours out.

I will repost this here for you since you are the one skating around the issue at hand which what you claimed in this thread:

LOL you are too funny.

Yes you are so spot on that you didn't follow through on your own calls otherwise you would have been the SMART money?

Anyone can claim "I made a prediction and see I am right." but not actually following through to back up your "spot on" calls by taking on risk.

Risk brings a whole other world/dimension into predictions.

Nice try but your claims about smart money are nothing but bullshit.  

THE ISSUE:

I see value in some other alternative coins, and I even think some of them have a large chance to overtake Litecoin as people slowly realize that Litecoin is just one big marketing campaign. If your investment strategy is to look at coinmarketcap and choose the coins with the biggest market cap, then I don't feel like that is a smart investment. According to you, this is how "smart money" operates. However, I think the "even smarter money" does extensive research on all coins that are available and the ones in development, and then comes to a proper decision as to what they will put their money in. After doing this myself I have come to the conclusion that "smart money" isn't actually so smart afterall.

Then you said:

This post is illogical, seeing as though my choices for cryptocoins have been spot on so far. As I have said, I made some poor life and business decisions, but my decisions as to what cryptos are going to go up or down in value is not one of those. As you say, only time will tell, however if you actually read my arguments then you will see I have a point. If you don't think I have a point, then tell me how I am wrong. The fact that you aren't doing this already makes me realize that you do understand I have a point. Your childish ranting is no better than the illogical trolls you speak of.

It is easy to claim "I was right" yet have no substance to actually back up your claims aside from you made a correct prediction. Making predictions with no risk doesn't put you in a place to claim the smart money isn't so smart as you had nothing on the line.

If you did really believe in your predictions you would have gone all in at some point to show you truly believed in your predictions. But you didn't, did you?

[smoothie]

Coinhoarder ^ 

[CoinHoarder]

blah blah blah

Keep skating around the issue at hand. The more you do, the more people will realize that I am right and you are wrong.

LOL it isn't even about being right or wrong. It is about calling bullshit of yours out.

I will repost this here for you since you are the one skating around the issue at hand which is a part of your OP:

LOL you are too funny.

Yes you are so spot on that you didn't follow through on your own calls otherwise you would have been the SMART money?

Anyone can claim "I made a prediction and see I am right." but not actually following through to back up your "spot on" calls by taking on risk.

Risk brings a whole other world/dimension into predictions.

Nice try but your claims about smart money are nothing but bullshit.  

Smoothie, you do not know the full story, as you do not know me and you are not my friend. Enough of my private matters are already made public on these forums, and I do not wish to go into detail any further about this. All it will do is give you another avenue of insulting me. I have been honest enough with you and the community here, and I doubt many people will be as honest as I have been about my personal life. If I had money to back up my opinion, then I certainly would... I'm not scared.

You yourself just said you bought Litecoin at $0.005 each... I mean, who do you think you are kidding? You are obviously sitting on a fat wallet and have much more to lose than the common folk. It is not surprising to me you adamantly defend Litecoin. However, the problem is the way in which you do so is more based on insulting the people whose opinion is different than yours instead of trying to point out how they are wrong. It is childish and doesn't prove a point. I have been very thorough and detailed about my arguments in this thread. All you can appear to come up with is insults. Although people are keeping their mouth shut because they don't want to get in the middle of this, I am certain that people can see you for who you really are, and realize you have an agenda versus me. I am hear to speak about my honest opinion about Litecoin, and you are here to insult me.

So again Smoothie for the 100th time, if you want to talk about Litecoin and why it's not dying, then lets do it. Insulting me does not prove your point.

[CoinHoarder]

A year ago a Litecoin was worth about $ 2.50 its about $ 9.50 today, yep its a slow death

A lot has happened in a year.

[smoothie]

A year ago a Litecoin was worth about $ 2.50 its about $ 9.50 today, yep its a slow death

Yup LTC has crashed...upwards in the slow death like fashion. 

[smoothie]

blah blah blah

Keep skating around the issue at hand. The more you do, the more people will realize that I am right and you are wrong.

LOL it isn't even about being right or wrong. It is about calling bullshit of yours out.

I will repost this here for you since you are the one skating around the issue at hand which is a part of your OP:

LOL you are too funny.

Yes you are so spot on that you didn't follow through on your own calls otherwise you would have been the SMART money?

Anyone can claim "I made a prediction and see I am right." but not actually following through to back up your "spot on" calls by taking on risk.

Risk brings a whole other world/dimension into predictions.

Nice try but your claims about smart money are nothing but bullshit.  

Smoothie, you do not know the full story, as you do not know me and you are not my friend. Enough of my private matters are already made public on these forums, and I do not wish to go into detail any further about this. All it will do is give you another avenue of insulting me. I have been honest enough with you and the community here, and I doubt many people will be as honest as I have been about my personal life. If I had money to back up my opinion, then I certainly would... I'm not scared.

You yourself just said you bought Litecoin at $0.005 each... I mean, who do you think you are kidding? You are obviously sitting on a fat wallet and have much more to lose than the common folk. It is not surprising to me you adamantly defend Litecoin. However, the problem is the way in which you do so is more based on insulting the people whose opinion is different than yours instead of trying to point out how they are wrong. It is childish and doesn't prove a point. I have been very thorough and detailed about my arguments in this thread. All you can appear to come up with is insults. Although people are keeping their mouth shut because they don't want to get in the middle of this, I am certain that people can see you for who you really are, and realize you have an agenda versus me. I am hear to speak about my honest opinion about Litecoin, and you are here to insult me.

So again Smoothie for the 100th time, if you want to talk about Litecoin and why it's not dying, then lets do it. Insulting me does not prove your point.

Yes we been over this, insulting you is telling you the hard truth that you perceive as insulting. But not necessarily was it meant that way, merely pointing out more bullshit of yours.

I've already address your 100th time comment.

Define "dying" lol...which you haven't done yet.

[CoinHoarder]

Well Smoothie, it is clear to me (and everyone else) that you have nothing intelligible to contribute to this discussion.

You are living in the past, Litecoin hasn't been doing so hot the past 6 months. 0.03 -> 0.016

[Bobsurplus]

Litecoin to the moon and I'll be buying a few hundred more tonight!

[CoinHoarder]

Yes we been over this, insulting you is telling you the hard truth that you perceive as insulting. But not necessarily was it meant that way, merely pointing out more bullshit of yours.

I've already address your 100th time comment.

Define "dying" lol...which you haven't done yet.

Actually, I have. I told you to use the word irrelevant instead of dying. You are just picking at my words.

Smoothie, you don't know the truth because I haven't told you. I know how you are trying to ruin me, so I'd rather not give you more ammunition.

You are just mad that I have a point in my arguments against Litecoin.  

See, I can use smileys too in a trollish nature.

[smoothie]

Smoothie's cumulative definition of the word "dying" in reference to LTC:

Less people are talking about litecoin than 2 years ago.

Merchants are moving away from accepting it.

An extended period of time has passed (~2 years) without anything new happening in the community/news/merchants/development/price.

Less people are using Litecoin than two years ago.

Less miners are mining Litecoin than two years ago.

....I can probably come up with more but I'll stop there.

[CoinHoarder]

Smoothie's cumulative definition of the word "dying" in reference to LTC:

Less people are talking about litecoin than 2 years ago.

Merchants are moving away from accepting it.

An extended period of time has passed (~2 years) without anything new happening in the community/news/merchants/development/price.

Less people are using Litecoin than two years ago.

Less miners are mining Litecoin than two years ago.

....I can probably come up with more but I'll stop there.

Again, you are living in the past. Litecoin only very recently started dying in my opinion, I even gave it a 1 to 2 year lifespan. Things change, people change, cryptos change.

Litecoin is so boring now, and you are in denial.

[coblee]

I haven't had time to read this whole thread yet. I did skim the first post and would like to quickly address some points.

CoinHoarder, I'm sorry that you felt that I somehow had something against you. There's no club that you aren't part of. Likely, the reason was that since I supported you in person, I didn't see the need to post a reply to your thread. When you decided to stop doing your coin, I think I posted saying that's unfortunate. I don't check the litecoin forum as much as I should, so I must have missed your other posts. Coinographic's post caught my eyes recently, so that's why I posted. I'm not more excited about his coin than smoothie's coin or your coin. In the end, people shouldn't care whether or not they get my support or not. This is a community after all.

As for me not appearing that much for a while, I was busy with real life. I had Greedy help me with a lot of stuff. Turned out, that trust was not well placed. So I had to come back and be more active and try to clean up the mess. And this too should not matter that much. Do you judge Litecoin based on whether or not I'm still active? How about Satoshi and Bitcoin?

[CoinHoarder]

I haven't had time to read this whole thread yet. I did skim the first post and would like to quickly address some points.

CoinHoarder, I'm sorry that you felt that I somehow had something against you. There's no club that you aren't part of. Likely, the reason was that since I supported you in person, I didn't see the need to post a reply to your thread. When you decided to stop doing your coin, I think I posted saying that's unfortunate. I don't check the litecoin forum as much as I should, so I must have missed your other posts. Coinographic's post caught my eyes recently, so that's why I posted. I'm not more excited about his coin than smoothie's coin or your coin. In the end, people shouldn't care whether or not they get my support or not. This is a community after all.

As for me not appearing that much for a while, I was busy with real life. I had Greedy help me with a lot of stuff. Turned out, that trust was not well placed. So I had to come back and be more active and try to clean up the mess. And this too should not matter that much. Do you judge Litecoin based on whether or not I'm still active? How about Satoshi and Bitcoin?

I'm glad you showed up Coblee, you are much more level headed than Smoothie can ever wish to be. Honestly, most of this thread has been Smoothie and I insulting each other. To learn more about my thought process on Litecoin, I direct you to the OP which you seem to have already read and the following posts:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=662058.msg7476982#msg7476982
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=662058.msg7477592#msg7477592
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=662058.msg7498464#msg7498464

Thanks for explaining your side of the story, and I have no reason to believe that is not true as you have always been straightforward with everyone. However, that was only a small factor in my reasoning. I would love to hear what you have to say about some of the issues I brought up in the OP and in the above posts. Smoothie is just ignoring those posts and insulting me, and I have a feeling that you can take constructive criticism like a man, which is basically what this thread is meant to be.

[TheMage]

Hi again CH,

I saw your reply to mine, i'm sorry i havent addressed it yet. I'm a little tired/drunk at the moment so ill read it and reply either tomorrow or the next day . I skipped a lot of you and smoothie back and fourth (I'm sure you two can understand haha). Depending on how bored I am tomorrow, I might even go and read yours two back and fourth lol.


Hi Coblee, you owe me an answer btw (you should know what I mean lol). 

[CoinHoarder]

Hi again CH,

I saw your reply to mine, i'm sorry i havent addressed it yet. I'm a little tired/drunk at the moment so ill read it and reply either tomorrow or the next day . I skipped a lot of you and smoothie back and fourth (I'm sure you two can understand haha). Depending on how bored I am tomorrow, I might even go and read yours two back and fourth lol.


Hi Coblee, you owe me an answer btw (you should know what I mean lol). 

No problem, I understand I have been pretty long winded and there is a lot of go over and respond to. I'm not expecting a response from you or Coblee tonight for that reason. I am nonetheless interested in what you guys have to say, so I do hope that you guys will respond eventually.

Cheers

[smoothie]

Yes we been over this, insulting you is telling you the hard truth that you perceive as insulting. But not necessarily was it meant that way, merely pointing out more bullshit of yours.

I've already address your 100th time comment.

Define "dying" lol...which you haven't done yet.

Actually, I have. I told you to use the word irrelevant instead of dying. You are just picking at my words.

Smoothie, you don't know the truth because I haven't told you. I know how you are trying to ruin me, so I'd rather not give you more ammunition.

You are just mad that I have a point in my arguments against Litecoin.  

See, I can use smileys too in a trollish nature.

You already ruined your own rep. You don't need me to do that for you.

The word "irrelevant" is not a definition. It is the same as a synonym (in usage).

I asked for a definition of the word "dying".

There is a difference.

lol yes you can try to mock me and "troll". Nice fail.

[smoothie]

Smoothie's cumulative definition of the word "dying" in reference to LTC:

Less people are talking about litecoin than 2 years ago.

Merchants are moving away from accepting it.

An extended period of time has passed (~2 years) without anything new happening in the community/news/merchants/development/price.

Less people are using Litecoin than two years ago.

Less miners are mining Litecoin than two years ago.

....I can probably come up with more but I'll stop there.

Again, you are living in the past. Litecoin only very recently started dying in my opinion, I even gave it a 1 to 2 year lifespan. Things change, people change, cryptos change.

Litecoin is so boring now, and you are in denial.

Which you have not defined still.

[smoothie]

I haven't had time to read this whole thread yet. I did skim the first post and would like to quickly address some points.

CoinHoarder, I'm sorry that you felt that I somehow had something against you. There's no club that you aren't part of. Likely, the reason was that since I supported you in person, I didn't see the need to post a reply to your thread. When you decided to stop doing your coin, I think I posted saying that's unfortunate. I don't check the litecoin forum as much as I should, so I must have missed your other posts. Coinographic's post caught my eyes recently, so that's why I posted. I'm not more excited about his coin than smoothie's coin or your coin. In the end, people shouldn't care whether or not they get my support or not. This is a community after all.

As for me not appearing that much for a while, I was busy with real life. I had Greedy help me with a lot of stuff. Turned out, that trust was not well placed. So I had to come back and be more active and try to clean up the mess. And this too should not matter that much. Do you judge Litecoin based on whether or not I'm still active? How about Satoshi and Bitcoin?

Glad you decided to show up.

 

[smoothie]

I haven't had time to read this whole thread yet. I did skim the first post and would like to quickly address some points.

CoinHoarder, I'm sorry that you felt that I somehow had something against you. There's no club that you aren't part of. Likely, the reason was that since I supported you in person, I didn't see the need to post a reply to your thread. When you decided to stop doing your coin, I think I posted saying that's unfortunate. I don't check the litecoin forum as much as I should, so I must have missed your other posts. Coinographic's post caught my eyes recently, so that's why I posted. I'm not more excited about his coin than smoothie's coin or your coin. In the end, people shouldn't care whether or not they get my support or not. This is a community after all.

As for me not appearing that much for a while, I was busy with real life. I had Greedy help me with a lot of stuff. Turned out, that trust was not well placed. So I had to come back and be more active and try to clean up the mess. And this too should not matter that much. Do you judge Litecoin based on whether or not I'm still active? How about Satoshi and Bitcoin?

I'm glad you showed up Coblee, you are much more level headed than Smoothie can ever wish to be. Honestly, most of this thread has been Smoothie and I insulting each other. To learn more about my thought process on Litecoin, I direct you to the OP which you seem to have already read and the following posts:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=662058.msg7476982#msg7476982
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=662058.msg7477592#msg7477592
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=662058.msg7498464#msg7498464

Thanks for explaining your side of the story, and I have no reason to believe that is not true as you have always been straightforward with everyone. However, that was only a small factor in my reasoning. I would love to hear what you have to say about some of the issues I brought up in the OP and in the above posts. Smoothie is just ignoring those posts and insulting me, and I have a feeling that you can take constructive criticism like a man, which is basically what this thread is meant to be.

lol I was "insulting" you per your words.

I see it differently. To me it is calling your BS out.

This thread is full of Coinhoarder attempting to convince people he knows what he is talking about but has huge holes in his own credibility of his claims...especially about the part about smart money not being that smart...not to mention all of the whining about Coblee ignoring him etc etc etc.

[CoinHoarder]

You're just repeatedly picking at my words Smoothie. There is literally nothing I can say to you that you won't have some sort of trollish or mean spirited response for, so I am over it.

You're going back on ignore, I will continue this conversation with the more level headed Litecoin community members such as Coblee and TheMage.

[smoothie]

@darkota,

So you gonna back up your claims? Or was it just all talk?

Other than price speculation, please give me one reason to buy LTC over BTC.  That is why is will die a slow death.

LOL...read through the thread. There have been AMPLE reasons stated.

Anyone who actually buys Litecoin is a dumbass and as you can see since it feel over 80%, they're going to end up loosing a lot of money...It's worthless.

Yes I bought Litecoin at $0.005 each in 2012 and I have been "loosing" a lot of money since. It is "worthless".

LOL

Let's see in a year where LTC is in respect to today. Current rate is $9.50.

I'll bump this when we get there. June 24th, 2015.

I know you're lying about buying Litecoin at$0.005 each, but I'll let that go for now...

If you actually bought Litecoin at a price similar to that stated above(which you obviously didnt), then you would of sold when Litcoin hit around $2. It stalled at $2.50 for quite some time....

I know you're just fucking lying, cause if you didnt sell at $2.50, you would of sold at $10, then at $20, then at its ATH of $50.

I know you bought in litecoin around $30, no point in trying to hide that fact smoothie....

Ill bump this thread earlier than June 24th, 2015, when Litecoin hits $1 Ill be sure to bumpity bump.

Just because you lie all the time does not mean others do not, https://bitcointa.lk/threads/litecoin-is-officially-dead.331214/page-5

Nobody will sell - til we hit $100 or until we can spend it everywhere.

So which MAJOR STORES accepted Bitcoin in November 2013? 

FantomCoin - to the moon:0

Ok dude, you hold your Litecoin. As I and many others have been saying since Litecoin was $50, it's only going to keep going down without going up.
Today it's $8 for a Litecoin, 2 months from now it's gonna be $5 for a Litecoin. 6 months from now it's going to be $2 per Litecoin.

People never learn...

Wanna bet that Litecoin (LTC) will be $2 each or less within 6 months?

We would use the BTC-e price to determine the outcome of this bet.

I'll do an escrowed bet for 2 BTC. Saltyspitton can be our escrow.

To be clear should the price of LTC stay at $2.00 or less for a 48 hour period anytime in the next 6 months you automatically win, otherwise I win.

Bet would end 6 months from now or if the price goes at or below $2.00 and stay there for a continuous 48 hour period.

December 24th 2014 is 6 months from now ...xmas eve.  If you accept this it would be an awesome x-mas present. lol

Chicken?
Put up or shut up.

[smoothie]

You're just repeatedly picking at my words Smoothie. There is literally nothing I can say to you that you won't have some sort of trollish or mean spirited response for, so I am over it.

You're going back on ignore, I will continue this conversation with the more level headed Litecoin community members such as Coblee and TheMage.

LOL run Coinhoarder run!

Be sure not to unignore me as your credibility would be in jeopardy again.

[devphp]

@Darkota


I don't know if you're just trolling or being serious but I will pretend it is the latter.

Why is it so hard to believe that anyone would buy LTC at $0.005 and still have them today? Some of us here are serious investors/miners and understand that shaky hands don't make great traders.

I started mining LTC from Block 1 on the day it launched with a fairly large herd since it was originally a cpu only coin. I was able to get a hold of the early scrypt gpu miner and continued to mine steady with a large (at the time) gpu farm for over a year. I mined on and off for the next year or so after that. All of this is documented across several sub forums here since late 2011 if you want to dig it up.

All in all the only LTC I have ever traded was for other alts on Cryptsy and that has been for less than 20,000 LTC over the past 13 months. I never sold at $2.00, $10.00 or $50.00 and still hold a very large amount.

I realize you're in an "Alt currency drama" at the moment but Smoothie has a rock solid history of being an avid LTC trader and investor with a 3 year history here.


Litecoin very well may be in a slump and that much I agree on, but it ain't nowhere near dead.



~BCX~



PS Here's a post in 2011 where I bought 5000 LTC for 1 BTC which was about $16.00 at the time.  Also if you will dig, you will find that Smoothie sold a video card for 25,000 LTC some where back when LTC was considered worthless.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=47417.msg572107#msg572107

Do you have an exit strategy for Litecoin, in case it goes against your expectations? It has been in a downtrend for over 6 months now. At what point (time point or price point) would you sell your LTCs? Suppose, it keeps going down to $5, $3, $1? Would you sell then? Because you pose yourself as a serious investor/miner per your own words, you should have an exit strategy of some sort. Could you share it?

[doo]

Bitcoin, Peercoin, Namecoin..........have all been going down in the last 6 months are the all dying, no. Just because China slowed the rise of cryptos, its not the end. If anything is in really bad shape its Ripple.

[devphp]

Do you have an exit strategy for Litecoin, in case it goes against your expectations? It has been in a downtrend for over 6 months now. At what point (time point or price point) would you sell your LTCs? Suppose, it keeps going down to $5, $3, $1? Would you sell then? Because you pose yourself as a serious investor/miner per your own words, you should have an exit strategy of some sort. Could you share it?

My "exit" strategy is to hold long. A very large majority of the LTC I have was acquired when they were worth pennies each, so like a few other long timers here even $2.00 it still represents a huge profit.

The way I look at it is, if I acquired or mined LTC when it was only bringing in $2.50 for a whole block back then and if LTC drops to $2.00 today it is still worth $100 a block, I'm still in the profit at $97.50 a block.

But considering it is worth about $450 per block at the moment, I'm still up an average of $447 per block and I can assure you I still has me a "few" blocks LOL

Strategy is very long, I'm not selling. It will comeback.


~BCX~

So, you won't sell at $2? Ok. I won't ask you about any lower numbers, like $0.50, $0.10, because I feel it would be useless at this point, since the price is not close to there.

[devphp]

I wished I had a BTC for everytime I hear "X"coin was dead!

Back in December 2011 when BTC fell to right below $2.00 each after hitting the all time high of $36.00 the previous June, all the experts called it dead, very much in the same way those same experts are calling LTC dead.


~BCX~

That was different. But I don't want to beat a dead horse about this again

[dadugan]

I wished I had a BTC for everytime I hear "X"coin was dead!

Back in December 2011 when BTC fell to right below $2.00 each after hitting the all time high of $36.00 the previous June, all the experts called it dead, very much in the same way those same experts are calling LTC dead.


~BCX~

Some of the new coins do have innovation. And the innovation is being carry to next generation coin.

Bitcoin and Litecoin have not add any new useful features for awhile, the price might keep going up for a while, but I won't hold them long term.

[smoothie]

I wished I had a BTC for everytime I hear "X"coin was dead!

Back in December 2011 when BTC fell to right below $2.00 each after hitting the all time high of $36.00 the previous June, all the experts called it dead, very much in the same way those same experts are calling LTC dead.


~BCX~

Some of the new coins do have innovation. And the innovation is being carry to next generation coin.

Bitcoin and Litecoin have not add any new useful features for awhile, the price might keep going up for a while, but I won't hold them long term.

Innovation does not equal acceptance or success.

The network effect is what matters. People who accept it for payment and use it to transact in is what matters.

If the protocol is sound, why does it NEED new features at this very moment and not months years down the road when those features are well tested off of the main network?

The answer is: LTC doesn't.

[Saigonsmokes]

I wished I had a BTC for everytime I hear "X"coin was dead!

Back in December 2011 when BTC fell to right below $2.00 each after hitting the all time high of $36.00 the previous June, all the experts called it dead, very much in the same way those same experts are calling LTC dead.


~BCX~

Some of the new coins do have innovation. And the innovation is being carry to next generation coin.

Bitcoin and Litecoin have not add any new useful features for awhile, the price might keep going up for a while, but I won't hold them long term.

Innovation does not equal acceptance or success.

The network effect is what matters. People who accept it for payment and use it to transact in is what matters.

If the protocol is sound, why does it NEED new features at this very moment and not months years down the road when those features are well tested off of the main network?

The answer is: LTC doesn't.

If it aint broke why fix it. Here is Charlies presentation from the

Charlie Lee's Litecoin presentation at BTC MIAMI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le5ByHtssnc

Charlie is a really down to earth guy hey, liked the copper joke!

What is Litecoins Future - Wow. So Lite. Much Future

BitcoinExpress - I knew some of you bagholders were hiding in the shadows:)

[darkota]

@darkota,

So you gonna back up your claims? Or was it just all talk?

Other than price speculation, please give me one reason to buy LTC over BTC.  That is why is will die a slow death.

LOL...read through the thread. There have been AMPLE reasons stated.

Anyone who actually buys Litecoin is a dumbass and as you can see since it feel over 80%, they're going to end up loosing a lot of money...It's worthless.

Yes I bought Litecoin at $0.005 each in 2012 and I have been "loosing" a lot of money since. It is "worthless".

LOL

Let's see in a year where LTC is in respect to today. Current rate is $9.50.

I'll bump this when we get there. June 24th, 2015.

I know you're lying about buying Litecoin at$0.005 each, but I'll let that go for now...

If you actually bought Litecoin at a price similar to that stated above(which you obviously didnt), then you would of sold when Litcoin hit around $2. It stalled at $2.50 for quite some time....

I know you're just fucking lying, cause if you didnt sell at $2.50, you would of sold at $10, then at $20, then at its ATH of $50.

I know you bought in litecoin around $30, no point in trying to hide that fact smoothie....

Ill bump this thread earlier than June 24th, 2015, when Litecoin hits $1 Ill be sure to bumpity bump.

Just because you lie all the time does not mean others do not, https://bitcointa.lk/threads/litecoin-is-officially-dead.331214/page-5

Nobody will sell - til we hit $100 or until we can spend it everywhere.

So which MAJOR STORES accepted Bitcoin in November 2013?  

FantomCoin - to the moon:0

Ok dude, you hold your Litecoin. As I and many others have been saying since Litecoin was $50, it's only going to keep going down without going up.
Today it's $8 for a Litecoin, 2 months from now it's gonna be $5 for a Litecoin. 6 months from now it's going to be $2 per Litecoin.

People never learn...

Wanna bet that Litecoin (LTC) will be $2 each or less within 6 months?

We would use the BTC-e price to determine the outcome of this bet.

I'll do an escrowed bet for 2 BTC. Saltyspitton can be our escrow.

To be clear should the price of LTC stay at $2.00 or less for a 48 hour period anytime in the next 6 months you automatically win, otherwise I win.

Bet would end 6 months from now or if the price goes at or below $2.00 and stay there for a continuous 48 hour period.

December 24th 2014 is 6 months from now ...xmas eve.   If you accept this it would be an awesome x-mas present. lol

Chicken?
Put up or shut up.

That's a stupid, manipulative bet. 48 hours is a long time, and I'm sure anyone with a say 40 BTC could manipulate the small Litecoin market and move the price above $2 in a minute, then itll fall again ofc. But anyway, that bet is stupid and you know it..

How about this, if Litecoin drops below $5 within the next 6 months at any time hehe. The bet is 5 BTC with escrow of TomatoCage.

[Dallas5]

needs a tl;dr: 

[CoinHoarder]

Hm, it is getting boring to me to hear the Litecoin faithful repeat the same mantras over and over, which I have refuted in detail, but none of them seem to be able to come up with a good retort. So, I will summarize here for those that may not have been following the thread. I may repeat some things I've already said, but that's just because no one has come up with a good answer for them yet. There are more half truths that they are spreading, but these seem to be the most common.

Myth #1: Trolls have called Litecoin dead before, but it hasn't happened yet, so that means it is not happening right now.

Logic Re: Myth #1: Most of the "Litecoin is dead" threads they refer to to make this point were from one to two years ago. I do agree that Litecoin was an easy choice back then to be the #2 crypto and was unlikely to die for obvious reasons. I myself defended back then. However, the dynamics of the free market have changed greatly since then. There wasn't really a good alternative to Litecoin or Bitcoin back then. Since then there have been numerous cryptos that have quicker block times, more features, more innovative proof of work protocol or alternatives, just as big of communities, and more developers. In an industry that moves as fast as cryptos are moving, you can't hold onto tired old mantras such as this when the dynamics have changed vastly. Due to rapid technological advancements, and the competition being innovative and forward thinking, companies can become obsolete very fast and I see no reason why this does not hold true with crypto currencies. When it comes to Myth #1, Litecoiners are living in the past. By the way, Smoothie hasn't figured this out yet and I guess there are probably others too, so I will explain it. The title of this thread is poking fun at the other "Litecoin is dead" threads and is a satirical hook. I thought it was a pretty catchy title myself, but maybe that's just me.

Myth #2: The Network Effect... cause just because.... The Network Effect.

Logic Re: Myth #2: I have already covered the network effect extensively in this thread and no one from the Litecoin camp seems to be able to come up with a good retort. The network effect is very powerful, however the network effect is exponentially more powerful for Bitcoin than it is for Litecoin. It is Bitcoin that is in the news all day every day, not Litecoin. Litecoin does get more attention than most other alternative crypto currencies, as they should because they are the guys to beat right now. This could change quickly, and if you read my examples of innovative companies completely killing less innovative companies, you will understand what I mean. I agree Litecoin has it's own network effect, however it is not nearly as strong as Bitcoin's network effect. Search Bitcoin in Google news and tell me how many articles pop up, then do the same for Litecoin, there will be many less articles about Litecoin. Litecoin has a small network effect that is somewhat limited within people engaged in the crypto currency community, however Bitcoin's network effect stretches much wider than that. Since Litecoin's network effect is limited somewhat to people engaged in the community, they are more likely to look at Litecoin for what it is.. Bitcoin with a few changed parameters. When it comes to Myth #2, Litecoiners are in denial.

Myth #3: Innovation does not translate into acceptance or success.

Logic Re: Myth #3: Sure, innovation doesn't equal acceptance or success on its own merits, however it certainly helps. The more innovative coins that have been released in the past year are sitting on top end of the crypto market cap list, and the cryptos that didn't are sitting at the bottom. According to Litecoiners this is purely coincidence... Furthermore, acceptance and therefore success will come for the most innovative cryptos as it is easier to determine who the leader of the pack is. Right now it is a hard decision as to what cryptocoin 2.0 protocol has the best chance for success, so payment processors and exchanges are hesitant to add them to their services (although the most forward thinking ones have already done so.) Over time this will work itself out. In the Field Of Dreams the saying goes, "if you build it they will come". I like this line of thinking when it comes to cryptos. Although they might not be widely adopted right when they come out, I believe that eventually (if there is added substance and value on top of Bitcoin/Litecoin) it is only a matter of time before the crypto community comes. (wow.. that totally didn't sound right..   ).

Myth #4: Litecoin is accepted at more merchants than other alternative currencies (as to a reason for it still being a good long term investment).

Logic Re: Myth #4: Sometimes cryptos (Litecoin or Bitcoin) are being used to transfer money and make purchases, however most users are still using them as a speculative vehicle to make money. If you really think that Litecoin is being used everywhere for ecommerce, then I have a bridge to sell you. When I had a physical crypto business I offered two ways to pay, through Paypal and through Coinpayments.net. I would venture to guesstimate that 95% of the orders were made using Paypal. The answer as to why is obvious, since cryptos have been going up in value so much over the past couple years, no one wants to spend their cryptos and would much rather use FIAT. This was only about 6 months ago, and I can guarantee you it has not changed much since then. Furthermore, the popularity of multi-coin payment processors are going to accelerate the adoption of newer innovative cryptos. As merchants demand more payment options for the convenience of their customers to receive more business, payment processors will adopt the most popular and valuable cryptos (which I am speculating will be the most innovative ones).

[smoothie]

@darkota,

So you gonna back up your claims? Or was it just all talk?

Other than price speculation, please give me one reason to buy LTC over BTC.  That is why is will die a slow death.

LOL...read through the thread. There have been AMPLE reasons stated.

Anyone who actually buys Litecoin is a dumbass and as you can see since it feel over 80%, they're going to end up loosing a lot of money...It's worthless.

Yes I bought Litecoin at $0.005 each in 2012 and I have been "loosing" a lot of money since. It is "worthless".

LOL

Let's see in a year where LTC is in respect to today. Current rate is $9.50.

I'll bump this when we get there. June 24th, 2015.

I know you're lying about buying Litecoin at$0.005 each, but I'll let that go for now...

If you actually bought Litecoin at a price similar to that stated above(which you obviously didnt), then you would of sold when Litcoin hit around $2. It stalled at $2.50 for quite some time....

I know you're just fucking lying, cause if you didnt sell at $2.50, you would of sold at $10, then at $20, then at its ATH of $50.

I know you bought in litecoin around $30, no point in trying to hide that fact smoothie....

Ill bump this thread earlier than June 24th, 2015, when Litecoin hits $1 Ill be sure to bumpity bump.

Just because you lie all the time does not mean others do not, https://bitcointa.lk/threads/litecoin-is-officially-dead.331214/page-5

Nobody will sell - til we hit $100 or until we can spend it everywhere.

So which MAJOR STORES accepted Bitcoin in November 2013?  

FantomCoin - to the moon:0

Ok dude, you hold your Litecoin. As I and many others have been saying since Litecoin was $50, it's only going to keep going down without going up.
Today it's $8 for a Litecoin, 2 months from now it's gonna be $5 for a Litecoin. 6 months from now it's going to be $2 per Litecoin.

People never learn...

Wanna bet that Litecoin (LTC) will be $2 each or less within 6 months?

We would use the BTC-e price to determine the outcome of this bet.

I'll do an escrowed bet for 2 BTC. Saltyspitton can be our escrow.

To be clear should the price of LTC stay at $2.00 or less for a 48 hour period anytime in the next 6 months you automatically win, otherwise I win.

Bet would end 6 months from now or if the price goes at or below $2.00 and stay there for a continuous 48 hour period.

December 24th 2014 is 6 months from now ...xmas eve.   If you accept this it would be an awesome x-mas present. lol

Chicken?
Put up or shut up.

That's a stupid, manipulative bet. 48 hours is a long time, and I'm sure anyone with a say 40 BTC could manipulate the small Litecoin market and move the price above $2 in a minute, then itll fall again ofc. But anyway, that bet is stupid and you know it..

How about this, if Litecoin drops below $5 within the next 6 months at any time hehe. The bet is 5 BTC with escrow of TomatoCage.

Looks like you are a chicken and a dumbass for claiming you KNEW I was lying about buying LTC at $0.005. LOL!!!!

Run chicken run!

[mymenace]

this thread is great

arguments for both sides are thick and fast

why does everyone want to change each others mind, opinions and speculation are great but no need for any one to be butthurt

live and let live

I like the charts for LTC they say volumes, LTC is doing exactly what it is meant to be doing, hang on cause its going to the moon

speculator speculating, ltc may test between 0.0135/btc and 0.015/btc before it happens

fly chicken fly

[smoothie]

this thread is great

arguments for both sides are thick and fast

why does everyone want to change each others mind, opinions and speculation are great but no need for any one to be butthurt

live and let live

I like the charts for LTC they say volumes, LTC is doing exactly what it is meant to be doing, hang on cause its going to the moon

speculator speculating, ltc may test between 0.0135/btc and 0.015/btc before it happens

fly chicken fly

LOL I agree.

[CoinHoarder]

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi

Except in this case its more like... first they laugh at you, then they fight with you, then they ignore you, then you win.
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We are here ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Aricoin_Mike]

Simple: It has to go down to get up again.

[juicyjuice87]

Simple: It has to go down to get up again.

There's only so many times you can get resuscitate before your fuked

[Saigonsmokes]

Simple: It has to go down to get up again.

There's only so many times you can get resuscitate before your fuked

Yes tats true DARKOTA

[TheMage]

Thank you for your genuine, level headed, and thorough response. It is posts such as this that I was hoping to receive instead of just getting flamed. You are setting a good example for fellow Litecoiners, and I appreciate the respectful tone in which your post was made.

You are very welcome! You deserve well thought out responses rather then the short quips and cherry picked info. Also im going to try to keep these responses shorter then before haha (I cant keep up with this thread, just way to much to go back and re-read).

I agree that security is very important, if everyone can't trust Litecoin then no one will use it. I did not mean to make it sound like I didn't think that is important, and I think perhaps I didn't word my statement properly to convey what I was trying to say. I feel that by focusing most of the development effort on improving security, that it makes it hard for the average crypto currency user to tell that Litecoin is actually being developed and improved upon. Unless they really keep up with the development updates on the Litecoin forums, they are never really going to notice or see these changes. If you open up the Litecoin client, apart from coin control, it looks about the same as it did 2 years ago featurewise. When people that are already involved in the crypto community and are looking to invest in something new, which is where I feel Litecoin has the biggest possibility to gain more users (that's how I found Litecoin,) they are going to see something that looks almost exactly similar to Bitcoin. That might not be so interesting to them as some of the newer innovative coins, and they may be less likely to invest or support Litecoin because of it.

I know that my personal opinion is that Litecoin is quite boring compared to all these new exciting projects. I feel like some of the newer projects have one-upped Bitcoin/Litecoin by adding different services and features that Bitcoin/Litecoin don't have, which makes them distinguishably different from Bitcoin. I feel like this adds perceived value or speculative value to the crypto currency, more so than a ton of security updates. If a Bitcoin clone came out today that was 100% focused on security, I would venture to say that it may not go over so well. However, if they added neat features then it adds to the perceived value, and people are more likely to invest or support the currency. Litecoin needs to alter their mixture of development efforts in my opinion to reflect this.

I also don't like the perception that people are prone to arriving at, that simply because a crypto currency is new and has new/different features than Bitcoin/Litecoin, that means it is filled with security issues. Sure, I'm certain there are some issues, but at the same time there are certainly still some vulnerabilities Bitcoin/Litecoin that will be brought to light sooner or later. Any program with as many lines of code as a crypto currency has, is likely vulnerable to security issues no matter how big the budget is and how talented the developers are. These security issues may or may not be known yet, and it may take a while for them to be uncovered, but I feel this is happening all the time. The most recent episode of the heart bleed SSL vulnerability comes to mind. As long as the developers of these new currencies are smart, careful, talented, security minded, and had a thorough security audit of their code done by a 3rd party, I don't really see the issue.

I believe it is unfair to say because something is new that it is full of security issues. It goes a long way in that most of these newer innovative currencies have not had huge security issues that would completely destroy the value of the currency. Sure, there have been some issues here and there, but nothing that would be a crippling blow in my opinion and nothing that other currencies (even Bitcoin/Litecoin) do not face themselves. I agree it is risky to jump into a new alternative currency that may have security issues, but the old saying goes "no risk no reward." Those that take the risk by adopting these currencies early might end up coming out very well (example: Nxt IPO coins).

I'll just number the paragraphs to make this easier (I hope lol)

1. Ok I might have misunderstood you. This makes more sense for what you were trying to convey. I can't really tell you exactly what the devs do, but I know security is a large part as well as im sure optimization of the code. As you know, both LTC and BTC devs work close together and making even small changes to one or the other could have significant impacts on the network (Gavin at some point stated something like this). The newer features you were trying to promote were so substantial that some of them would have required a hard fork, and others might have been scary to implement without significant testing and review. I also still consider a lot of the "innovations" gimmicks .

2. I agree with you on this point! But I think the "tried and true" method also applies here meaning the age of both coins and trust outweigh the need for gimmicks (or some that really do offer true innovation). Also remember, the real target audience is NOT people in the communities, but regular people. And regular people tend to gravitate towards safe and security (unless they have money to risk like VC's ).

3. On the topic of other coins security, I would agree. The assumption comes from more people and well known devs are participating to the BTC/LTC codebase, therefore there is more trust. Sure stuff can happen, but the chances are smaller with a larger group (I would also like to think that the more talented devs gravitate towards4 the more well known coins as well, but this is just a personal opinion).

4. I didn't claim that newer coins were more susceptible at all (in regards to you saying I said that newer coins have security issues, unless I misunderstood what you were saying).

My point with my comment was not that other coins security was bad, it was just that more time, effort, and dedication are put into security with BTC/LTC now.

I see what you are saying in terms of different types of investors, however I think you are over-generalizing the different types of crypto investors. I would say there are at least four types of investors:

1. Long term risk adverse investors (Bitcoin/Litecoin)
2. Long term risk prone investors (DCorps/Cryptocoin 2.0s/Etc.)
3. Short term investors (pump and dumpers, but don't forget day traders as well)
4. Savvy investors whom spread the risk around inbetween Bitcoin/Litecoin and DCorps/Cryptocoin 2.0s/Etc.

This is a matter of opinion, but I feel that you have the bolded statement backwards. I currently look at Bitcoin/Litecoin as a short term investment, and the newer currencies as a long term investment. Many Bitcoiners will admit that some of these newer currencies have more bells and whistles than Bitcoin, and the only thing keeping Bitcoin on top is the network effect and perhaps the venture capital that is flowing in (which is not really the case for Litecoin when it comes to VCs.) I feel like as the public finds out about crypto currencies and educates themselves about them, the network effect will slowly lose its stranglehold on the industry, and users will look for currencies that have improved upon Bitcoin greatly. Bitcoin itself is not invulnerable to being dethroned, and I feel like Litecoin is in the same boat. If Bitcoin doesn't continue to improve itself and adapt, it may very well find itself as the #2 crypto someday. Luckily they have one thing going for them that Litecoin doesn't, in that there are several Bitcoin 2.0 protocols being built on top of Bitcoin, which could support its value in this case.

I did overgeneralize a bit, I should have said two "main" types, then a mix between the two in various ways. But your list looks good to me.

Interesting...you see LTC and BTC as short term investments and others as long term? This seems kind of backwards....but I can understand in a way (this would be the number 4 of your above im guessing?).

As for the rest of your statements, lets agree to disagree at this point. I dont think anything I can say to you or vice versa can change each others minds. Sure all that stuff could happen, but I personally dont see it happening.

There are many other coins with strong communities, I don't really see this as an argument for Litecoin. I would venture to say that some of the newer communities are stronger in terms of the amount of developers involved. For example, it is rumored that Ethereum literally attracted something like 500 developers almost over night, and there are a ton of projects in the works. I think a community full of developers (like Bitcoin) is more important than a community of marketers and promoters. I can't believe I'm quoting this, but in the Field Of Dreams the saying goes, "if you build it they will come". I like this line of thinking when it comes to cryptos. Although they might not be widely adopted right when they come out, I think eventually if there is added substance and value on top of Bitcoin/Litecoin, that it is only a matter of time before the crypto community comes. (wow.. that totally didn't sound right..  Cheesy)

I also feel like whether an alternative coin is directly helping with Bitcoin development or not, everyone is helping with Bitcoin development by default (assuming their projects are open source.) I look at alternative crypto currencies as a playground for developers to try out new things and ideas, and if something is truly innovative, then Bitcoin now has a road map as to how to integrate this into Bitcoin by looking over the code. The same could be said about Litecoin, but the problem with that is the development team is extremely small when compared to Bitcoin's development team. Furthermore, Litecoin's development team's budget is quite small in comparison to Bitcoin, and they would likely need a bigger team to make some of these changes. This is one thing that annoyed me about Litecoin is that there are some people sitting on huge piles of coins (no different from Bitcoin or any other coin for that matter), that are not contributing to the development fund or involved with the community. I know you are not one of those people, so don't take that the wrong way.

1. There is also core infrastructure being build for LTC, such as Electrum and the new multi coin wallet Hive. For Litecoin, right now we need to spread mass adoption with the general public, so these tool will help a tremendous amount. (and lol yes that didnt sound right ).

2. I agree, new alts (even the pumps and dumps) do have their place in the entire eco system! But thats a much longer thread for me lol. And if BTC ever adopted anything, im pretty sure LTC will do the same as well. And yes I know that there are huge whales that contribute nothing to help. With that said, I have hinted at this before, but I actually own very little LTC or crypto in general. I do what I do because I believe in the cause! (and no im not kidding, I really dont have that much).

Definitely, I think every crypto is vulnerable to becoming irrelevant. This is the wild west, things are developing very quickly, and anything can certainly happen in the future. One month in the crypto world is like 1 year in most industries. I am shocked at how quickly things are coming along, it is frankly very hard to keep track of everything although I do my best.

Agreed and understood, but I still believe that the phase BTC and LTC are in (general population adoption) is the most critical at this point .

1. As of now there are also 100s of different block chains as a "back up". This might of been more correct 2 years ago, but now there are many back ups that arent simply copy and paste coins. So, I don't see this as an argument for specifically Litecoin.. it is more of an argument for alternative crypto currencies in general.
2. I'd like to make the same point here as I did in #1, as there are a lot of currencies that didn't copy and paste available or in development today. Again, I feel like this statement might of been more correct 1 to 2 years ago (and still applies today to the pump and dumpers) when it was mostly copy and paste coins being released. Today it is very different. There are so many cryptos that did not copy and paste, that I will probably never use or learn about them all. It is the sad reality, but I think that is a good problem to have. The alternative currency movement has come a long ways in the past 1 to 2 years, and people are moving more from pump and dump coins to coins that are actually innovative. Some more than others, but nonetheless I feel it is a step in the right direction.
3. I agree with you.
4. I agree Litecoin had a fair launch, but I no longer consider this a feature. As stated in the OP, this is just common sense. During the flurry of copy and paste coins I think this point was hammered home to developers and now we are seeing much more fair releases of coins. I haven't brought up this argument before, but it is something I've been thinking about.. I would venture to say that some of the newer cryptos being fairly released today will have a much better distribution than Bitcoin/Litecoin due to the fact that the community has grown a lot over the years. There are more people around that are more likely to go mine a new coin than there was 2-3 years ago. I feel like we've yet to see the most fairly released currency, as it will come well after cryptos are more widely adopted for this reason. I will admit that when you look at Litecoin's distribution compared to Bitcoin, you guys look like saints. In Bitcoin, there is far too large of a percentage of available coins in a small percentage of people's pockets.
5. I don't buy the "trusted brand" argument for making Litecoin a good long term investment. As you can tell, I think even Bitcoin is prone to irrelevancy and they are the most trusted out of all the cryptos. You have a point about the volume of Litecoin, and I agree that is definitely a good thing it has going for it. I think this dynamic is likely to change overtime though as the newer most innovative coins separate themselves from the rest, and it is likely that one or two of those coins will also be used for arbitrage (they are already to a smaller extent.) High volume is a good thing for cryptos as it allows people to sell and buy without affecting the price too horribly, so I will concede a point to you here. I just think that it is very possible that could change down the road. I'm pretty sure people are programming bots for just about every crypto by the way, as some of the lesser used cryptos will have the most opportunity due to there being more competition with other bots in Bitcoin/Litecoin. For example, if you picked a lesser known coin with decent volume, it makes sense to me that this could be more profitable due to the lack of competition. This is why I never got into day trading... its hard to compete with bots haha, those things pissed me off when they'd always come in and instantly outbid or underbid me by one Satoshi.  Lips sealed

1. Correct there are a ton of other blockchains, but not many with the seniority or dare I say security that BTC and LTC have (I should mention, that im also sure people have reviewed the code over the years for vulnerabilities, so with that assumption BTC and LTC should be more secure).
2. While I dont follow all the alts, it still "feels" like more pump and dumps are released then original code bases. But with that said, there are more original stuff coming out than before. So half and half agree and disagree lol.
3. Good
4. I agree
5. I agree as well lol, except I still believe LTC is a more trusted brand. You can't agree to number 3 without agreeing about this point as well .


OMG im so sorry but I dont have it in me to respond to the rest right now lol. So much work to do so little time. But im glad we can come to a consensus with a number of points and happily agree to disagree on others. Regardless of whatever bad blood you and some other members you may have, you are always welcome to come back to the community and participate. I hopefully will have more time tomorrow to check out the rest of the post .

[FreeJack2k2]

Simple: It has to go down to get up again.

There's only so many times you can get resuscitate before your fuked

How many times has Bitcoin been resuscitated...

[TheMage]

this thread is great

arguments for both sides are thick and fast

why does everyone want to change each others mind, opinions and speculation are great but no need for any one to be butthurt

live and let live

I like the charts for LTC they say volumes, LTC is doing exactly what it is meant to be doing, hang on cause its going to the moon

speculator speculating, ltc may test between 0.0135/btc and 0.015/btc before it happens

fly chicken fly

FYI..........this is hands down the best GIF EVER!!!

[smoothie]

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi

Except in this case its more like... first they laugh at you, then they fight with you, then they ignore you, then you win.
                                                                                                                         ^
                                                                                                                         |
We are here ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

So funny as you are talking about yourself ...

how many times now have you pressed the ignore button for me then to retract it shortly thereafter?

[CoinHoarder]

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi

Except in this case its more like... first they laugh at you, then they fight with you, then they ignore you, then you win.
                                                                                                                         ^
                                                                                                                         |
We are here ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

So funny as you are talking about yourself ...

how many times now have you pressed the ignore button for me then to retract it shortly thereafter?

I think deep down inside, I loves some Smoothie time. Usually when I say I'm going to ignore someone I just say it so they stop arguing with me. I don't have anyone on ignore. I'm down to debate, but not argue.

[Saigonsmokes]

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi

Except in this case its more like... first they laugh at you, then they fight with you, then they ignore you, then you win.
                                                                                                                         ^
                                                                                                                         |
We are here ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

So funny as you are talking about yourself ...

how many times now have you pressed the ignore button for me then to retract it shortly thereafter?

I think deep down inside, I loves some Smoothie time. Usually when I say I'm going to ignore someone I just say it so they stop arguing with me. I don't have anyone on ignore. I'm down to debate, but not argue.

You two are like an old married couple

[CoinHoarder]

No Problem Mage.. I know you're busy doing stuff. I'll wait for you to get to the rest of it to respond.

Yes, we can agree on some things definitely, and it seems we might agree to disagree on others. Most of this is speculation and everyone has their own idea of how things are going to play out. I'm not going to lie about things just so it fits my argument, so I will concede when you guys bring up valid arguments. As I said earlier, this is why the name of the thread is what it is. I was making fun of all the other "Litecoin is dead" threads, because most of them are so ridiculously stupid.

The other reason for this thread is that I wanted to bring attention to my concerns about Litecoin. This is the only way I feel like I can get my point across. I want you guys to succeed, I spent a long time supporting Litecoin and some family and friends are probably still half/half into bitcoin/litecoin. One of my buddies is 100% in Litecoin... I don't want Litecoin to fail because of them, and also people that bought coins/mining hardware from me. I would love to see them come out good too. So, I am rooting for you guys.. I am just worried.

[smoothie]

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi

Except in this case its more like... first they laugh at you, then they fight with you, then they ignore you, then you win.
                                                                                                                         ^
                                                                                                                         |
We are here ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

So funny as you are talking about yourself ...

how many times now have you pressed the ignore button for me then to retract it shortly thereafter?

I think deep down inside, I loves some Smoothie time. Usually when I say I'm going to ignore someone I just say it so they stop arguing with me. I don't have anyone on ignore anymore. I'm down to debate, but not argue.

FTFY.

 

[alienesb]

Doesn't Charlie work for Coinbase? Isn't that worth something?

[Aricoin_Mike]

Simple: It has to go down to get up again.

There's only so many times you can get resuscitate before your fuked

Yeah, nobady knows how many that is In my opinion ther will be many many more for ltc... But nobady knows.

[jubalix]

Ltc has issues since asics....

what is its use case v btc.

The only possible argument is it may have a better distribution that BTC, because of GPU's.....and perhaps algo back up.

Beyond that....what.


This is why I hold peercoin as well, it has a clear use case that no other coin has even attempted. Its sort of like trying to explain crypto to fiats, explaining peercoin to BTC/Alts. The problem is most people can't get thier head around where the real money is in the economy and its not in retail that most clamor for.....eg my Amazon/ebay/paypal


That said I still cant bring myself to part with a single LTC.

[WheresWaldo]

Ltc has issues since asics....

what is its use case v btc.

The only possible argument is it may have a better distribution that BTC, because of GPU's.....and perhaps algo back up.

Beyond that....what.


This is why I hold peercoin as well, it has a clear use case that no other coin has even attempted. Its sort of like trying to explain crypto to fiats, explaining peercoin to BTC/Alts. The problem is most people can't get thier head around where the real money is in the economy and its not in retail that most clamor for.....eg my Amazon/ebay/paypal


That said I still cant bring myself to part with a single LTC.

  litecoin "dying".... i dont know any alt coins that aren't "dying" to be honest.

[TaunSew]

Do you have an exit strategy for Litecoin, in case it goes against your expectations? It has been in a downtrend for over 6 months now. At what point (time point or price point) would you sell your LTCs? Suppose, it keeps going down to $5, $3, $1? Would you sell then? Because you pose yourself as a serious investor/miner per your own words, you should have an exit strategy of some sort. Could you share it?

My "exit" strategy is to hold long. A very large majority of the LTC I have was acquired when they were worth pennies each, so like a few other long timers here even $2.00 it still represents a huge profit.

The way I look at it is, if I acquired or mined LTC when it was only bringing in $2.50 for a whole block back then and if LTC drops to $2.00 today it is still worth $100 a block, I'm still in the profit at $97.50 a block.

But considering it is worth about $450 per block at the moment, I'm still up an average of $447 per block and I can assure you I still has me a "few" blocks LOL

Strategy is very long, I'm not selling. It will comeback.


~BCX~

Cryptos within 10 years will probably be worth $1 trillion.  $2 trillion investment gold, $500 billion global remittance (cryptos do it better), $20 trillion retirement / savings accounts (cryptos do better), $97 trillion investments, $400 trillion derivatives (coins like NxT have asset exchanges and even their own derivatives now).  

Dot come bubble was $7 trillion in late 1990s.  

Reality is all coins would benefit if cryptos hit $1 trillion.  Maybe BTC (or other coin) might be worth $700 billion, but something like LTC could be $200 billion and then many alts worth $10 - $50 billion.  LTC could hit $5K - $10K per LTC in future.


Cryptos is still relatively new.  Look at the Government attention on Cryptos and yet it's only $10 billion industry...  Madoff's scam (which consisted of scamming bankers and rich New Yorkers) was over $60 billion.  Bitcoin is this small fly on the wall and yet look at governments who are currently revising their tax codes because THEY KNOW crypto currencies will be huge in the future. 

Bitcoin has less capitalization than Drop Box but you don't see Government harassing Drop Box.

[devphp]

Ltc has issues since asics....

what is its use case v btc.

The only possible argument is it may have a better distribution that BTC, because of GPU's.....and perhaps algo back up.

Litecoin doesn't have a better distribution than Bitcoin, check the statistics.

Most coins, no matter what good distribution they could have at some point in the past, end up in the hands of just a few people. It works like that with fiat or crypto. Distribution is a misleading word, only to attract newbs.

[mymenace]

2 great things about ltc you can buy and sell with it

and you can make more btc from it

[kelsey]

Ltc has issues since asics....

what is its use case v btc.

The only possible argument is it may have a better distribution that BTC, because of GPU's.....and perhaps algo back up.

Litecoin doesn't have a better distribution than Bitcoin, check the statistics.

Most coins, no matter what good distribution they could have at some point in the past, end up in the hands of just a few people. It works like that with fiat or crypto. Distribution is a misleading word, only to attract newbs.

Well i agree with you on that, I think being obsessed with "fair" distribution is pretty pointless, especially when once any coin can be traded for fiat its distribution becomes as "fair" as fiat. Those wealthy in fiat can then become those wealthy in cryptos.

[Aricoin_Mike]

2 great things about ltc you can buy and sell with it

and you can make more btc from it

There is always possibility to make opposite... To lose bitcoin that way.

[mimimimimimimi]

It's a good read. I agree, Litecoin is dying a slow death. It has very little going for it compared to the more modern innovative coins like BlackCoin and VeriCoin.

Very true, I made a thread detailing why Litecoin is already dead, it only has 20 btc worth of volume on Mintpal..

Yes you made a thread and self moderated that thread and deleted any post that was positive towards Litecoin. Thats called being a troll. Your view means nothing, you clearly have an agenda.

Whats the volume like on NXT that you always pump?

https://i.imgur.com/lin9tIL.png

'FUD WARNING - There seems to be a certain group who go around constantly spreading lies about Litecoin. Most of these new coins coming out are created by the same group who's sole purpose is to pump and dump the coin on you and get as many btc and ltc as they can. DYODD'

You can read more about Litecoin and what the community has been up to here. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=661938.0

ltc may not be completely perfect ASICs etc but the NXT and other scams are dead and going no where and everyone knows it.

[jubalix]

Do you have an exit strategy for Litecoin, in case it goes against your expectations? It has been in a downtrend for over 6 months now. At what point (time point or price point) would you sell your LTCs? Suppose, it keeps going down to $5, $3, $1? Would you sell then? Because you pose yourself as a serious investor/miner per your own words, you should have an exit strategy of some sort. Could you share it?

My "exit" strategy is to hold long. A very large majority of the LTC I have was acquired when they were worth pennies each, so like a few other long timers here even $2.00 it still represents a huge profit.

The way I look at it is, if I acquired or mined LTC when it was only bringing in $2.50 for a whole block back then and if LTC drops to $2.00 today it is still worth $100 a block, I'm still in the profit at $97.50 a block.

But considering it is worth about $450 per block at the moment, I'm still up an average of $447 per block and I can assure you I still has me a "few" blocks LOL

Strategy is very long, I'm not selling. It will comeback.


~BCX~

Cryptos within 10 years will probably be worth $1 trillion.  $2 trillion investment gold, $500 billion global remittance (cryptos do it better), $20 trillion retirement / savings accounts (cryptos do better), $97 trillion investments, $400 trillion derivatives (coins like NxT have asset exchanges and even their own derivatives now).  

Dot come bubble was $7 trillion in late 1990s.  

Reality is all coins would benefit if cryptos hit $1 trillion.  Maybe BTC (or other coin) might be worth $700 billion, but something like LTC could be $200 billion and then many alts worth $10 - $50 billion.  LTC could hit $5K - $10K per LTC in future.


Cryptos is still relatively new.  Look at the Government attention on Cryptos and yet it's only $10 billion industry...  Madoff's scam (which consisted of scamming bankers and rich New Yorkers) was over $60 billion.  Bitcoin is this small fly on the wall and yet look at governments who are currently revising their tax codes because THEY KNOW crypto currencies will be huge in the future. 

Bitcoin has less capitalization than Drop Box but you don't see Government harassing Drop Box.

I agree with all of this well put.

The Govs reaction to crypto's is way beyond any other software I can recall, eg word/windows/linux other software...ho hum.

a mere 10B market cap and every single gov has to get serious.

On issue is though this is not market cap buy buying power. Drop box/Microsoft can spend its whole value and has to earn it back. BTC does not. The BTC "market cap: represents buy power that's always there.

[ShroomsKit_Disgrace]

How are you doing today LTC bagholders?

Another BTC rally missed?

 

[Brilliantrocket]

Looks like the thread title is accurate. A slow erosion, until panic sets in and we get a nice crash. Another shitcoin bites the dust.

[devphp]

Dogecoin and Litecoin market caps and hash rates will be on par some time this year.

[ChetnotAtkins]

There is no great future scenario for Litecoin. The competition is too far evolved with coins offering far more then Litecoin. A slow death is inevitable

[kokojie]

Wait, some one actually said “Litecoin has the best development team”??? I didn't know copy pasting was considered development.

[Liquid71]

Any mention of privacy features on LTC talk instantly gets shot down like it's so wrong to expect any privacy with ones own money and only criminals and drug dealers care about privacy.. it's not what features they do or don't have interest in it's the attitude that they need to follow in Bitcoin's shadow and not step outside of it and take zero chances that makes it a lame investment.  LTC talk feels like it's full of tweens and sheeple.

Just my 2 satoshis

[digitalindustry]

Ltc has issues since asics....

what is its use case v btc.

The only possible argument is it may have a better distribution that BTC, because of GPU's.....and perhaps algo back up.

Beyond that....what.


~~~~~

actually that means a lot if its a true statement - learn here if you like. :

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=670913.0

[digitalindustry]

Ltc has issues since asics....

what is its use case v btc.

The only possible argument is it may have a better distribution that BTC, because of GPU's.....and perhaps algo back up.

Litecoin doesn't have a better distribution than Bitcoin, check the statistics.

Most coins, no matter what good distribution they could have at some point in the past, end up in the hands of just a few people. It works like that with fiat or crypto. Distribution is a misleading word, only to attract newbs.

Well i agree with you on that, I think being obsessed with "fair" distribution is pretty pointless, especially when once any coin can be traded for fiat its distribution becomes as "fair" as fiat. Those wealthy in fiat can then become those wealthy in cryptos.

totally incorrect -

you can have millions indeed "billions" of pieces of paper, this won't guarantee you a monopoly % share in a well distributed crypto all it will mean is that you can move the market.

this has been shown to be true.

[FreeJack2k2]

How are you doing today LTC bagholders?

Another BTC rally missed?

 

Litecoin never rallies on the same schedule as Bitcoin. Money always leaves Litecoin when Bitcoin reverses trend and starts going higher. Always...and then, when the Bitcoin rally peters out, money cycles back to Litecoin. Sometimes a lot more than was there, to begin with.

We have 5-6 solo miners with over 30% of the block rewards right now, which represents an unusually concentrated amount of dumping...and they're offloading in anticipation of the next round of hardware that's shipping next month and throughout the summer/fall.

It'll be bumpy for a while, but when the network has been overtaken by ASIC hardware, it's going to change the dynamic radically. Hashrate will no longer have anywhere to migrate for chasing profitability and miners will be forced to hoard until profitability improves. Unless they like losing money. Over time, it'll rebalance and that's when it'll boom...because the network will have increased its hashrate tenfold at least, since the start of 2014. The strength of the network will attract a lot of eyes.

Honestly...people in crypto these days have NO patience, whatsoever. The pump and dump mentality has overrun it.

[CoinHoarder]

Honestly...people in crypto these days have NO patience, whatsoever. The pump and dump mentality has overrun it.

Ya there can't be any other reasonable explanation for people not seeing value in Litecoin...  

No one has been able to sufficiently counter my arguments, and Litecoiners are still ignoring that the free market agrees with me.

Litecoin is in denial. They are busy putting band aids on a gushing wound (new slogan, logo, video, etc.)

You guys will soon figure out that you can put a bow tie on a pig, but at the end of the day it's still a pig.

[FreeJack2k2]

Ya there can't be any other reasonable explanation for people not seeing value in Litecoin... 

No one has been able to sufficiently counter my arguments, and Litecoiners are still ignoring that the free market agrees with me.

Litecoin is in denial. They are busy putting band aids on a gushing wound (new slogan, logo, video, etc.)

You guys will soon figure out that you can put a bow tie on a pig, but at the end of the day it's still a pig.

You haven't been able to sufficiently counter mine, either. Not with facts, anyway...just with counter-suppositions and prognostications.

Sorry, but the fact that around $30 million has been put into dedicated hardware infrastructure in Litecoin over the course of the last 6-8 weeks and a 120% increase in nethash since May 1st (around 340% since January) says more to me than some guy bellowing "Litecoin is dead" on a forum.

It's a good thing people haven't listened to those proclaiming "Bitcoin is dead" every time it had a significant price drop.

The marketing initiatives you are talking about are a preparation for the increase in attention Litecoin is about to receive, when the network blows up over the summer...and it's about to. It's about positioning. Or, we could just passively sit around and say, "CoinHoarder's right, it's all over" in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. But that wouldn't be terribly smart.

[CoinHoarder]

Ya there can't be any other reasonable explanation for people not seeing value in Litecoin...  

No one has been able to sufficiently counter my arguments, and Litecoiners are still ignoring that the free market agrees with me.

Litecoin is in denial. They are busy putting band aids on a gushing wound (new slogan, logo, video, etc.)

You guys will soon figure out that you can put a bow tie on a pig, but at the end of the day it's still a pig.

You haven't been able to sufficiently counter mine, either. Not with facts, anyway...just with counter-suppositions and prognostications.

Sorry, but the fact that around $30 million has been put into dedicated hardware infrastructure in Litecoin  Scrypt coins over the course of the last 6-8 weeks and a 120% increase in nethash since May 1st (around 340% since January) says more to me than some guy bellowing "Litecoin is dead" on a forum.

It's a good thing people haven't listened to those proclaiming "Bitcoin is dead" every time it had a significant price drop.

FYP

Anyways.. if you would have been around as long as I have, you would realize that price does not follow difficulty. It doesn't happen that way with Bitcoin, and I am sorry that Litecoin is no exception. Any old timers can back me up on this statement, noobs always think that is true and proclaim it to be so until they realize that it is not.

A 340% increase is pitiful when taking into account all of the Scrypt mining hardware that has been sold, further proof that most people mine purely for profit and could give two shits about protecting Litecoin's network. Multi pools and the newest pump and dump scams have much more hash power behind them when combined and compared to Litecoin's hash rate.

Or, we could just passively sit around and say, "CoinHoarder's right, it's all over" in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. But that wouldn't be terribly smart.

I don't expect you guys to give up, in fact I always expected the opposite. The problem is that you guys ignore honest criticism and brush it off as trolling.

[slapper]

Sorry, but the fact that around $30 million has been put into dedicated hardware infrastructure in Litecoin

Because it somehow worked for BTC ASICs, it must work for LTC too  . If LTC were a corporation, there would have been widespread shakedown at the top for their decisions, not to mention litigation for false advertisement, and condemnation for repulsive salespersons.

That $30 million in ASIC hardware deployment is not the first example of money being taken away from dumb hands and it won't certainly be the last. Either way it is hardly a sign of revival.

[FreeJack2k2]

A 340% increase is pitiful when taking into account all of the Scrypt mining hardware that has been sold, further proof that most people mine purely for profit and could give two shits about protecting Litecoin's network. Multi pools and the newest pump and dump scams have much more hash power behind them when combined and compared to Litecoin's hash rate.

You have no idea how much hardware has been sold (and in what MH/s), first of all...so you're not in a position to make a judgment on whether the hashrate increase is "pitiful" relative to it. You could look at Dogecoin's 10% increase compared to Litecoin's 120% increase in the same amount of time and call THAT pitiful, though.

Coin switching pools are not much more profitable than Litecoin...the reason being, the coins being mined are illiquid. Dump a significant amount and you crash the market for them. Their profitability due to gravity well and Digishield are a constantly moving target. As Litecoin's network expands in strength, it'll become clear that these alts are a waste of time and hashrate.

I'm no noob, I've been watching on a daily basis since early 2013. I've seen what has happened with Bitcoin. Miners continue to pour money into Bitcoin hardware to maintain their footprint in the network. The same will happen with Litecoin. But if you don't see how growth attracts money, I don't know how I can make this point to you. It's what the stock market is built on and it's what triggered Bitcoin's explosive growth. It became something far more than just "hobbyists mining a digital coin on their gaming PC."

If you actually went and did what you proposed and combined the total nethash of all competing Scrypt coins right now on Coinwarz, they MIGHT amount to half of Litecoin's nethash.

And by the way...don't fix my post when you don't know what you're talking about. That $30million number I posted was calculated based on the increase in Litecoin's network hashrate since the introduction of the 80MH/s models from Innosilicon, Zeusminer and Silverfish at an average wholesale cost of $9000 per 80MH/s device. I know you fancy yourself quite the know-it-all here, but you don't have your facts straight.

[digitalindustry]

Honestly...people in crypto these days have NO patience, whatsoever. The pump and dump mentality has overrun it.

Ya there can't be any other reasonable explanation for people not seeing value in Litecoin...  

No one has been able to sufficiently counter my arguments, and Litecoiners are still ignoring that the free market agrees with me.

Litecoin is in denial. They are busy putting band aids on a gushing wound (new slogan, logo, video, etc.)

You guys will soon figure out that you can put a bow tie on a pig, but at the end of the day it's still a pig.

i don't disagree with a lot of what you stated - and of course price does not chase difficulty however LTC at the moment is a better prospect than BTC so where does that leave us?

it soon becomes apparent that there are many "crypto scams" and few crypto currencies, if you take all the

obvious scams
PoS.
IPO.
and now ASIC driven crypto

out of the field,

what list do you have left?

its not a big one.

which to me is a perfect example of where crypto currency is at the moment, and actually is why i get quite bullish on the whole field.

[Mithril1977]

I just wanted to point out that I like some of the long term points made.

I'm for LTC.

[juicyjuice87]

MUST SEE! litcoins new song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BZt6lumdlQ&app=desktop

[CoinHoarder]

A 340% increase is pitiful when taking into account all of the Scrypt mining hardware that has been sold, further proof that most people mine purely for profit and could give two shits about protecting Litecoin's network. Multi pools and the newest pump and dump scams have much more hash power behind them when combined and compared to Litecoin's hash rate.

You have no idea how much hardware has been sold (and in what MH/s), first of all...so you're not in a position to make a judgment on whether the hashrate increase is "pitiful" relative to it. You could look at Dogecoin's 10% increase compared to Litecoin's 120% increase in the same amount of time and call THAT pitiful, though.

I'd venture to say I have a better idea of how much hardware has been sold than you, seeing as though I used to distribute Gridseed mining hardware, and had contacts high up on the food chain in those regards. Sure, I agree a 10% increase is pitiful compared to a 120% increase, but anyone that knows anything knows that Dogecoin is crap so I'm not sure what your point is in that comparison.

Coin switching pools are not much more profitable than Litecoin...the reason being, the coins being mined are illiquid. Dump a significant amount and you crash the market for them. Their profitability due to gravity well and Digishield are a constantly moving target. As Litecoin's network expands in strength, it'll become clear that these alts are a waste of time and hashrate.

Actually.. people that are mining on multi pools are usually making more profit than people mining purely Litecoin. It is ridiculous to refute this fact, if you had any hands on experience then you would know so. Sure they have less liquidity, but it doesn't mean a higher profit can't be made mining something other than Litecoin, in fact it is a preposterous statement to say that multi pools are less profitable than purely mining Litecoin, or any coin for that matter. The same could be said for sha256 mining. If you aren't making more money in the long term on a multi pool, then you are on a crappy multi pool. Not all multi pools are as profitable as others due to the different techniques used.

I'm no noob, I've been watching on a daily basis since early 2013. I've seen what has happened with Bitcoin. Miners continue to pour money into Bitcoin hardware to maintain their footprint in the network. The same will happen with Litecoin. But if you don't see how growth attracts money, I don't know how I can make this point to you. It's what the stock market is built on and it's what triggered Bitcoin's explosive growth. It became something far more than just "hobbyists mining a digital coin on their gaming PC."

Ok, so you're not a noob, but you are clueless if you think price follows difficulty. You are ignoring all the money flowing into the infrastructure of Bitcoin. You are so focused on mining hardware that you can't realize the big picture. With Bitcoin much more of that money was also spent on things such as payment processors, exchanges, services, and protocols on top of Bitcoin. This isn't happening with Litecoin on the same scale it is happening with Bitcoin, at least not to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars like Bitcoin. The reason for the price hike was many factors, and you seem to be insinuating that it is purely because of Bitcoin ASICs which is a ludicrous statement. Look in the project development and development subforums here and compare it to the Litecoin forums... a large percentage of money going into Litecoin is going into purely mining hardware, whereas with Bitcoin its being spread around all over the place. Stop acting like you have it all figured out when you are obviously clueless.

If price follows difficulty, then tell me why the Bitcoin price has not followed this trend the past 6 months? https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate

If you want more examples, they are numerous and I would be happy to provide them to you. It would be easier if you just did the research yourself though.

If you actually went and did what you proposed and combined the total nethash of all competing Scrypt coins right now on Coinwarz, they MIGHT amount to half of Litecoin's nethash.

If this is true, I will concede a point to you here. I haven't checked in a long time, but how I said it was how it used to be ever since multi pools came on the scene. I don't really care much about how secure Litecoin is anymore honestly.

And by the way...don't fix my post when you don't know what you're talking about. That $30million number I posted was calculated based on the increase in Litecoin's network hashrate since the introduction of the 80MH/s models from Innosilicon, Zeusminer and Silverfish at an average wholesale cost of $9000 per 80MH/s device. I know you fancy yourself quite the know-it-all here, but you don't have your facts straight.

That's all good and nice, and it would be applicable to the debate if price followed difficulty. However, your statement is based on a flawed premise that price follows difficulty, and that mining hardware investments for Bitcoin are the only reason Bitcoin's price has gone up. When in fact it has been proven over the years during the numerous ups and downs that price does not follow difficulty, and also ignoring all the money going into many different aspects of the Bitcoin infrastructure.. not just mining hardware.

Furthermore, Litecoin having the most secure ALT coin network is a flat out lie. Most of the coins in the top 10 market cap are not Scrypt coins. Sure, you have the most secure SCRYPT alt coin. Everyone knows pretty much all Scrypt coins are crap, so you guys are like king of the crap coins. Congratulations, that's a huge accomplishment. The newer more innovative coins don't need to waste millions in electricity spitting out useless strings of data to secure their block chains, meanwhile subjecting their miners to pre-order scams and shady mining manufacturers. Nor do they have to worry about centralization of the network further down the road like all ASIC mine-able coins will have to succumb to.

[CoinHoarder]

Honestly...people in crypto these days have NO patience, whatsoever. The pump and dump mentality has overrun it.

Ya there can't be any other reasonable explanation for people not seeing value in Litecoin...  

No one has been able to sufficiently counter my arguments, and Litecoiners are still ignoring that the free market agrees with me.

Litecoin is in denial. They are busy putting band aids on a gushing wound (new slogan, logo, video, etc.)

You guys will soon figure out that you can put a bow tie on a pig, but at the end of the day it's still a pig.

i don't disagree with a lot of what you stated - and of course price does not chase difficulty however LTC at the moment is a better prospect than BTC so where does that leave us?

it soon becomes apparent that there are many "crypto scams" and few crypto currencies, if you take all the

obvious scams
PoS.
IPO.
and now ASIC driven crypto

out of the field,

what list do you have left?

its not a big one.

which to me is a perfect example of where crypto currency is at the moment, and actually is why i get quite bullish on the whole field.

I mostly agree with your post too, however I am getting really annoyed with everyone repeating the notion that all PoS coins and IPOs are scams. Some of them are sure, but not all of them and it is wrong to generalize them like that. Each of them need to be analyzed separately.

[digitalindustry]

Honestly...people in crypto these days have NO patience, whatsoever. The pump and dump mentality has overrun it.

Ya there can't be any other reasonable explanation for people not seeing value in Litecoin...  

No one has been able to sufficiently counter my arguments, and Litecoiners are still ignoring that the free market agrees with me.

Litecoin is in denial. They are busy putting band aids on a gushing wound (new slogan, logo, video, etc.)

You guys will soon figure out that you can put a bow tie on a pig, but at the end of the day it's still a pig.

i don't disagree with a lot of what you stated - and of course price does not chase difficulty however LTC at the moment is a better prospect than BTC so where does that leave us?

it soon becomes apparent that there are many "crypto scams" and few crypto currencies, if you take all the

obvious scams
PoS.
IPO.
and now ASIC driven crypto

out of the field,

what list do you have left?

its not a big one.

which to me is a perfect example of where crypto currency is at the moment, and actually is why i get quite bullish on the whole field.

I mostly agree with your post too, however I am getting really annoyed with everyone repeating the notion that all PoS coins and IPOs are scams. Some of them are sure, but not all of them and it is wrong to generalize them like that. Each of them need to be analyzed separately.

uh oh - we will leave that one well alone.

yes if you say so. i can't disagree with what ever you decide to invest in. that's your choice.

**edit ok i just looked at your link there i can see you have emuni and other things on there, i don't doubt that these are certainly innovative, however distribution will be an issue.

i can't say for certainly that they will get it right or wrong, so to that degree i agree with you.

[CoinHoarder]

uh oh - we will leave that one well alone.

yes if you say so. i can't disagree with what ever you decide to invest in. that's your choice.

**edit ok i just looked at your link there i can see you have emuni and other things on there, i don't doubt that these are certainly innovative, however distribution will be an issue.

i can't say for certainly that they will get it right or wrong, so to that degree i agree with you.

I would not invest in over 50% of the coins that are listed in my innovative crypto currency thread, the actual percentage is probably much higher than that if I were to go through and figure out an exact number. It is not investment advice, and I agree that just because something is innovative doesn't make it a good investment.

It is meant to be a list of changes and/or improvements to Bitcoin, or completely new cryptocoins. After a few years of people releasing innovative coins, it will help developers in the future figure out what has been done before, what hasn't been done, what could be done better, etc.. it is basically just a resource for people developing new coins.

It is also meant as a starting point for looking into different coins to invest in, but more research needs to be done on each coin to come to a conclusion. As I said, I myself would not invest in most of the coins on that list, but I certainly would invest in a handful of those coins before I invested in Litecoin.

[Skele]

LTCs are very very low but it isn't entirely dead.

I think it will be completely desintegrated by the next 1-2 weeks, just wait a little more before buying a ticket to the moon...

[smoothie]

Ya there can't be any other reasonable explanation for people not seeing value in Litecoin...  

No one has been able to sufficiently counter my arguments, and Litecoiners are still ignoring that the free market agrees with me.

Litecoin is in denial. They are busy putting band aids on a gushing wound (new slogan, logo, video, etc.)

You guys will soon figure out that you can put a bow tie on a pig, but at the end of the day it's still a pig.

You haven't been able to sufficiently counter mine, either. Not with facts, anyway...just with counter-suppositions and prognostications.

Sorry, but the fact that around $30 million has been put into dedicated hardware infrastructure in Litecoin  Scrypt coins over the course of the last 6-8 weeks and a 120% increase in nethash since May 1st (around 340% since January) says more to me than some guy bellowing "Litecoin is dead" on a forum.

It's a good thing people haven't listened to those proclaiming "Bitcoin is dead" every time it had a significant price drop.

FYP

Anyways.. if you would have been around as long as I have, you would realize that price does not follow difficulty. It doesn't happen that way with Bitcoin, and I am sorry that Litecoin is no exception. Any old timers can back me up on this statement, noobs always think that is true and proclaim it to be so until they realize that it is not.

A 340% increase is pitiful when taking into account all of the Scrypt mining hardware that has been sold, further proof that most people mine purely for profit and could give two shits about protecting Litecoin's network. Multi pools and the newest pump and dump scams have much more hash power behind them when combined and compared to Litecoin's hash rate.

Or, we could just passively sit around and say, "CoinHoarder's right, it's all over" in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. But that wouldn't be terribly smart.

I don't expect you guys to give up, in fact I always expected the opposite. The problem is that you guys ignore honest criticism and brush it off as trolling.

Go back 10 months to August 2013 where difficulty kept rising and rising for 3 months straight which in turn pulled the price up in is own way.

Your theory doesn't always hold true. If you were around as long as I have you would know that your bolded statement isn't 100% true.

[smoothie]

Honestly...people in crypto these days have NO patience, whatsoever. The pump and dump mentality has overrun it.

Ya there can't be any other reasonable explanation for people not seeing value in Litecoin...  

No one has been able to sufficiently counter my arguments, and Litecoiners are still ignoring that the free market agrees with me.

Litecoin is in denial. They are busy putting band aids on a gushing wound (new slogan, logo, video, etc.)

You guys will soon figure out that you can put a bow tie on a pig, but at the end of the day it's still a pig.

i don't disagree with a lot of what you stated - and of course price does not chase difficulty however LTC at the moment is a better prospect than BTC so where does that leave us?

it soon becomes apparent that there are many "crypto scams" and few crypto currencies, if you take all the

obvious scams
PoS.
IPO.
and now ASIC driven crypto

out of the field,

what list do you have left?

its not a big one.

which to me is a perfect example of where crypto currency is at the moment, and actually is why i get quite bullish on the whole field.

I mostly agree with your post too, however I am getting really annoyed with everyone repeating the notion that all PoS coins and IPOs are scams. Some of them are sure, but not all of them and it is wrong to generalize them like that. Each of them need to be analyzed separately.

Funny hearing this from you who likes to generalize where "you guys" (as you put it) stand when it comes to the topic of Litecoin and its #2 spot and all of your myths etc etc.

If anyone is thinking that Coinhoarder claims to know how the Litecoin market works and can foresee what that market will be doing in the future of its target market (even from past predictions)...don't you think the guy would actually be able to have something in terms of success or profit that he could show as proof that he indeed knows what he is talking about?

I would think so.

All I hear in this thread from the OP is:

1. "My view on the LTC market is clear and you should take what I say seriously."

2. "My view although pretends to be a pinpoint of what I am trying to get across is actually one foot in the door and one foot out the door."

3. "I won't give you any accurate indication of what I think other than to generalize and put people into stereotypes in an attempt to be passively agressive all the while attempting/pretending that I know what I am talking about."

4. "I've made bad business decisions and personal life decisions yet even though these relate to the LTC market in some way, I still believe I am right even though I have not put anything on the line in terms of risk that has given me success in my predictions to show as proof that I do know what I am talking about. In fact the opposite has happened. I am broke, my business is in the gutter and I have nothing to show for it that my knowledge of how the LTC market works and how it will be in the future is accurate."

Anyone claiming "I know that LTC will fail and I have yet to be proven wrong" or "My predictions of the LTC market have been SPOT ON" and still has nothing to show for it but lame excuses for going MIA with his customers waiting and making promises of other projects that have yet to be paid out in terms of a bounty, is a wanna-be.

Actions will always speak louder. If you are successful in your predictions of a market and you believe those predictions yourself and not just say them to sound smart, you will see opportunity and capitalize on it and not just sit around flailing and failing on current businesses and past projects.

Cryptography altogether is a genie out of a bottle. Whether LTC fails or succeeds is irrelevant. I support LTC and will continue to do so as long as I see value in the network protocol and it also as a payment mechanism.

One last note: Coinhoarder what ever happened to this?

The first people that contacted me and paid, your stuff is on its way as of today. Sorry about the delay.. life is crazy right now. I will write some assembly instructions and post them here. Make sure to read them.. I had a customer brick his units by plugging in 5v power into the Gridseeds.

- If you have emailed me and not heard back from me, you will hear from me today.

- If you emailed me and don't want your stuff shipped back and want it hosted. I will have your things back up and running within the end of the week. I apologize for delay.. I'm still moving.

- If you opened a Paypal dispute, I cannot send your stuff to you I apologize. I literally have $0 in my pocket and my bank account is negative, I cannot cover your shipping. When you open a dispute, Paypal freezes the money. Email me to work something out.

I am giving you guys all accessories at no costs, and 1 special edition physical litecoin (worth ~$15 each unloaded on Ebay) per Gridseed you ordered (until supplies last I am not sure I have enough to do 1-1 for everyone.) I have these left over from people that didn't pay for them after the auctions. This is the only way I can somewhat make up for this as I have no coins or cash. I hope you appreciate it... as I have definitely lost a lot of time and money in this as well. I wasn't making much of anything selling these Gridseeds as it was- hosted units I literally made nothing after paying for accessories and was planning on making money from hosting fees. That obviously never happened.

I am going to take a long hiatus from the cryptocoin community after this is cleared up. I will not continue any businesses I have started, I need to eliminate stress as much as possible from my life. I admit I am young (27) and still have a lot to learn. I have made some mistakes and I am sorry about that. I wish things would have gone better, but it most of it was out of my control. I literally do not know how I am going to eat tonight. I am now living with my sister, first night here she's like "I'm seeing this guy and he's gonna stay the night tonight." I'm thinking to myself... fuck my life. I told someone in email, but since I delayed even more I will explain it to you publicly. I have been having problems with depression the past 6 months or so. It has been hard for me to live a normal life, it is why I lost my job. I have suffered with depression off and on my whole life, but lately I have been the worst I've ever been. I would totally kill myself right now if I didn't have a family that would be devastated. I can't do that to them... I need to learn to be strong and teach myself how to be happy again. I have been going through some really tough times, all I am asking for is a little understanding.

Please just have patience and this whole thing will be fixed shortly. I am still moving.. no A/C at my old place or the warehouse in 90+ degree weather... by myself. This is why I have been slow to respond and send everything back. I will try to make an effort to be better about responding etc so we can get this cleared up once and for all.

Thanks.

It doesn't surprise me that your word means nothing even in a statement like that.

People do your own due diligence when attempting to garner information/wisdom from another person here as many like to say things and not back it up with actions. Talk is cheap.

 

[CoinHoarder]

Go back 10 months to August 2013 where difficulty kept rising and rising for 3 months straight which in turn pulled the price up in is own way.

Your theory doesn't always hold true. If you were around as long as I have you would know that your bolded statement isn't 100% true.

1. It's not a theory
2. Yes it is true

If price does not always follow difficulty, that means price doesn't follow difficulty. IF price goes down while difficulty goes up, how can you say price follows difficulty? Answer: You can't unless you want to ignore all the times that it doesn't. To state otherwise is blasphemy.

Perhaps you could say "sometimes price follows difficulty", but the statement "price follows difficulty" is not true. There are many other factors at play than simply difficulty as I stated, funny how you ignore that. You guys just cherry pick things that suite your argument, and I address every point you bring up. I have brought up a lot of good points ITT that you guys continually ignore.

[CoinHoarder]

Funny hearing this from you who likes to generalize where "you guys" (as you put it) stand when it comes to the topic of Litecoin and its #2 spot and all of your myths etc etc.

If anyone is thinking that Coinhoarder claims to know how the Litecoin market works and can foresee what that market will be doing in the future of its target market (even from past predictions)...don't you think the guy would actually be able to have something in terms of success or profit that he could show as proof that he indeed knows what he is talking about?

I would think so.

You like repeating yourself don't you? You like telling the world how stupid and horrible of a person I am over and over. Yet, you can't refute most of my arguments in this thread.. you just ignore them. Funny how that works. I am pretty sure you keep doing because you think I will stop if you keep telling people about all the "horrible" things I've done. That's not going to happen Smoothie, why don't you man up and refute my arguments?

You bring up history as if everything in the past happens the same way in the future, and as if the dynamics haven't vastly changed since two years ago. You are so invested and have been supporting Litecoin you hate to see it fail, you hate that I am pointing out why Litecoin is a crap coin, and you have a personal vendetta against me since I called your physical Litecoins overpriced. Just admit it bro, everyone can tell.  

My original choices of crypto coin investments have gone up a lot in value... Bitcoin and Litecoin. However, as I've stated a lot has changed since then and the free market is reflecting that. You are simply in denial. I have had a few things happen to me in the past couple years that I had to cash out my coins to FIAT... shit happens. Yeah, I didn't get rich but it doesn't mean that I was wrong and now everything I have to say is invalidated. Maybe to you it does, but I am sure that everyone else can read what I have to say and see the sense in it. Again, look at what the free market has decided. If I am such an idiot, prove me wrong.  

All I hear in this thread from the OP is:

1. "My view on the LTC market is clear and you should take what I say seriously."

You guys haven't convinced me that I'm wrong yet. TheMage is the only one that has put a valid effort forward to do so. I will retreat and admit I am wrong if you can do so. All you seem to be able to do it point at me say "he's dumb dumb, he's bad man, no listen to him."

2. "My view although pretends to be a pinpoint of what I am trying to get across is actually one foot in the door and one foot out the door."

What do you mean by this?

3. "I won't give you any accurate indication of what I think other than to generalize and put people into stereotypes in an attempt to be passively agressive all the while attempting/pretending that I know what I am talking about."

I've been the most thorough person in this thread when it comes to what I believe, lol @ "I won't give you an accurate indication of what I think". I've explained everything very clearly, you must not be able to read?

If I don't know what I'm talking about, then point out how I am wrong.

Anyone claiming "I know that LTC will fail and I have yet to be proven wrong" or "My predictions of the LTC market have been SPOT ON" and still has nothing to show for it but lame excuses for going MIA with his customers waiting and making promises of other projects that have yet to be paid out in terms of a bounty, is a wanna-be.

You don't know my life story, a lot of things have happened to me over the past couple years. Sorry I couldn't sit on a big pile of coins like your holyness Smoothie. Apparently almost being homeless is not an excuse to Smoothie for going MIA. I am not a bad person, I am back and trying to work everything out and pay my debts. Scammers don't do that.

Again, the dynamics have changed a lot since then, and you have not been able to prove me wrong. You can only sling personal insults at me instead of pointing out how I am wrong. It's the same argument over and over, that's literally all you have on me since you can't refute my arguments.

Actions will always speak louder. If you are successful in your predictions of a market and you believe those predictions yourself and not just say them to sound smart, you will see opportunity and capitalize on it and not just sit around flailing and failing on current businesses and past projects.

You don't know my life story, we are not friends. I believe in what I am saying, until someone points out to me why specifically that I am wrong. Again, all you can do is insult me.

Cryptography altogether is a genie out of a bottle. Whether LTC fails or succeeds is irrelevant. I support LTC and will continue to do so as long as I see value in the network protocol and it also as a payment mechanism.

That's like saying I like girls as long as they are skinny, average weight, and fat. You just described every crypto currency in existence that wasn't a scam. Does that mean they are all good investments?

One last note: Coinhoarder what ever happened to this?

It doesn't surprise me that your word means nothing even in a statement like that.

People do your own due diligence when attempting to garner information/wisdom from another person here as many like to say things and not back it up with actions. Talk is cheap.

Literally all you can do is insult me, you can't refute my arguments. You are really making a good argument for Litecoin.  

The reason why I started this thread was because you were talking shit about me, and also talking shit about my reason for leaving Litecoin. I am proving that I had real reasons why not to support Litecoin anymore. All you do is ignore them and insult me. It is obvious to everyone that you can't refute my arguments, as Litecoin continues to drop like a rock.

[CoinHoarder]

Hm, it is getting boring to me to hear the Litecoin faithful repeat the same mantras over and over, which I have refuted in detail, but none of them seem to be able to come up with a good retort. So, I will summarize here for those that may not have been following the thread. I may repeat some things I've already said, but that's just because no one has come up with a good answer for them yet. There are more half truths that they are spreading, but these seem to be the most common.

Myth #1: Trolls have called Litecoin dead before, but it hasn't happened yet, so that means it is not happening right now.

Logic Re: Myth #1: Most of the "Litecoin is dead" threads they refer to to make this point were from one to two years ago. I do agree that Litecoin was an easy choice back then to be the #2 crypto and was unlikely to die for obvious reasons. I myself defended back then. However, the dynamics of the free market have changed greatly since then. There wasn't really a good alternative to Litecoin or Bitcoin back then. Since then there have been numerous cryptos that have quicker block times, more features, more innovative proof of work protocol or alternatives, just as big of communities, and more developers. In an industry that moves as fast as cryptos are moving, you can't hold onto tired old mantras such as this when the dynamics have changed vastly. Due to rapid technological advancements, and the competition being innovative and forward thinking, companies can become obsolete very fast and I see no reason why this does not hold true with crypto currencies. When it comes to Myth #1, Litecoiners are living in the past. By the way, Smoothie hasn't figured this out yet and I guess there are probably others too, so I will explain it. The title of this thread is poking fun at the other "Litecoin is dead" threads and is a satirical hook. I thought it was a pretty catchy title myself, but maybe that's just me.

Myth #2: The Network Effect... cause just because.... The Network Effect.

Logic Re: Myth #2: I have already covered the network effect extensively in this thread and no one from the Litecoin camp seems to be able to come up with a good retort. The network effect is very powerful, however the network effect is exponentially more powerful for Bitcoin than it is for Litecoin. It is Bitcoin that is in the news all day every day, not Litecoin. Litecoin does get more attention than most other alternative crypto currencies, as they should because they are the guys to beat right now. This could change quickly, and if you read my examples of innovative companies completely killing less innovative companies, you will understand what I mean. I agree Litecoin has it's own network effect, however it is not nearly as strong as Bitcoin's network effect. Search Bitcoin in Google news and tell me how many articles pop up, then do the same for Litecoin, there will be many less articles about Litecoin. Litecoin has a small network effect that is somewhat limited within people engaged in the crypto currency community, however Bitcoin's network effect stretches much wider than that. Since Litecoin's network effect is limited somewhat to people engaged in the community, they are more likely to look at Litecoin for what it is.. Bitcoin with a few changed parameters. When it comes to Myth #2, Litecoiners are in denial.

Myth #3: Innovation does not translate into acceptance or success.

Logic Re: Myth #3: Sure, innovation doesn't equal acceptance or success on its own merits, however it certainly helps. The more innovative coins that have been released in the past year are sitting on top end of the crypto market cap list, and the cryptos that didn't are sitting at the bottom. According to Litecoiners this is purely coincidence... Furthermore, acceptance and therefore success will come for the most innovative cryptos as it is easier to determine who the leader of the pack is. Right now it is a hard decision as to what cryptocoin 2.0 protocol has the best chance for success, so payment processors and exchanges are hesitant to add them to their services (although the most forward thinking ones have already done so.) Over time this will work itself out. In the Field Of Dreams the saying goes, "if you build it they will come". I like this line of thinking when it comes to cryptos. Although they might not be widely adopted right when they come out, I believe that eventually (if there is added substance and value on top of Bitcoin/Litecoin) it is only a matter of time before the crypto community comes. (wow.. that totally didn't sound right..   ).

Myth #4: Litecoin is accepted at more merchants than other alternative currencies (as to a reason for it still being a good long term investment).

Logic Re: Myth #4: Sometimes cryptos (Litecoin or Bitcoin) are being used to transfer money and make purchases, however most users are still using them as a speculative vehicle to make money. If you really think that Litecoin is being used everywhere for ecommerce, then I have a bridge to sell you. When I had a physical crypto business I offered two ways to pay, through Paypal and through Coinpayments.net. I would venture to guesstimate that 95% of the orders were made using Paypal. The answer as to why is obvious, since cryptos have been going up in value so much over the past couple years, no one wants to spend their cryptos and would much rather use FIAT. This was only about 6 months ago, and I can guarantee you it has not changed much since then. Furthermore, the popularity of multi-coin payment processors are going to accelerate the adoption of newer innovative cryptos. As merchants demand more payment options for the convenience of their customers to receive more business, payment processors will adopt the most popular and valuable cryptos (which I am speculating will be the most innovative ones).

This is only a fraction of my arguments against Litecoin, lets start with these.

Prove me wrong Smoothie.

Man up and stop skating around the issues at hand.

[FreeJack2k2]

I'd venture to say I have a better idea of how much hardware has been sold than you, seeing as though I used to distribute Gridseed mining hardware, and had contacts high up on the food chain in those regards. Sure, I agree a 10% increase is pitiful compared to a 120% increase, but anyone that knows anything knows that Dogecoin is crap so I'm not sure what your point is in that comparison.

Your experience selling 300kh hardware released in February does not give you any specific or applicable knowledge about numbers related to the latest 80mh hardware.

The point of the Dogecoin reference is to help you with your definition of "pitiful."

Actually.. people that are mining on multi pools are usually making more profit than people mining purely Litecoin. It is ridiculous to refute this fact, if you had any hands on experience then you would know so. Sure they have less liquidity, but it doesn't mean a higher profit can't be made mining something other than Litecoin, in fact it is a preposterous statement to say that multi pools are less profitable than purely mining Litecoin, or any coin for that matter. The same could be said for sha256 mining. If you aren't making more money in the long term on a multi pool, then you are on a crappy multi pool. Not all multi pools are as profitable as others due to the different techniques used.

First of all, what is profitable for someone with 5mh is not the same as what is profitable for someone with 50, in coin switching. The coins they mine are so illiquid that coins sit unexchanged and often by the time the market absorbs them, the price has been driven down to the point where it was less profitable. Yes, I have firsthand experience with this dynamic. Profit switching is only going to get worse.

Ok, so you're not a noob, but you are clueless if you think price follows difficulty. You are ignoring all the money flowing into the infrastructure of Bitcoin. You are so focused on mining hardware that you can't realize the big picture. With Bitcoin much more of that money was also spent on things such as payment processors, exchanges, services, and protocols on top of Bitcoin. This isn't happening with Litecoin on the same scale it is happening with Bitcoin, at least not to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars like Bitcoin. The reason for the price hike was many factors, and you seem to be insinuating that it is purely because of Bitcoin ASICs which is a ludicrous statement. Look in the project development and development subforums here and compare it to the Litecoin forums... a large percentage of money going into Litecoin is going into purely mining hardware, whereas with Bitcoin its being spread around all over the place. Stop acting like you have it all figured out when you are obviously clueless.

If price follows difficulty, then tell me why the Bitcoin price has not followed this trend the past 6 months? https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate

If you want more examples, they are numerous and I would be happy to provide them to you. It would be easier if you just did the research yourself though.

When the option to find another more profitable coin to mine is no longer there, dumping will no longer be economically feasible. Hoarding will force price to move, as long as the increased strength and growth stimulates interest and press (which it will). It is not a direct correlation, it is symptomatic. Demand drives price. Security and reliability (strength) drives demand.

And by the way...don't fix my post when you don't know what you're talking about. That $30million number I posted was calculated based on the increase in Litecoin's network hashrate since the introduction of the 80MH/s models from Innosilicon, Zeusminer and Silverfish at an average wholesale cost of $9000 per 80MH/s device. I know you fancy yourself quite the know-it-all here, but you don't have your facts straight.

That's all good and nice, and it would be applicable to the debate if price followed difficulty. However, your statement is based on a flawed premise that price follows difficulty, and that mining hardware investments for Bitcoin are the only reason Bitcoin's price has gone up. When in fact it has been proven over the years during the numerous ups and downs that price does not follow difficulty, and also ignoring all the money going into many different aspects of the Bitcoin infrastructure.. not just mining hardware.

Furthermore, Litecoin having the most secure ALT coin network is a flat out lie. Most of the coins in the top 10 market cap are not Scrypt coins. Sure, you have the most secure SCRYPT alt coin. Everyone knows pretty much all Scrypt coins are crap, so you guys are like king of the crap coins. Congratulations, that's a huge accomplishment. The newer more innovative coins don't need to waste millions in electricity spitting out useless strings of data to secure their block chains, meanwhile subjecting their miners to pre-order scams and shady mining manufacturers. Nor do they have to worry about centralization of the network further down the road like all ASIC mine-able coins will have to succumb to.

Don't mix arguments. Price following difficulty or not has zero bearing on the calculation of how much money has been put into hardware infrastructure in the last 6-8 weeks.

You spend a lot of time justifying your points with "everyone knows." The discussion about energy efficiency is not germane to the discussion of security, either. Bitcoin doesn't get it wrong.This supposition you seem to have that we need something with more bells and whistles is symptomatic of the "pump and dump" mentality that has overrun alt coins, where some trivial or pointless (or untenable) "feature" is used to craft a plausible story to back a "pump." They are all houses of cards.

I know you won't be convinced, and I don't feel compelled to try and sway you. You are just wrong , and your conclusions are based not on precedent and facts, but emotional conjecture and, I assume, a motivation (conscious or otherwise) to pump your new favorites by discrediting the reigning #2. You're barking up the wrong tree.

[bezekal]

Ltc has issues since asics....

what is its use case v btc.

The only possible argument is it may have a better distribution that BTC, because of GPU's.....and perhaps algo back up.

Beyond that....what.


This is why I hold peercoin as well, it has a clear use case that no other coin has even attempted. Its sort of like trying to explain crypto to fiats, explaining peercoin to BTC/Alts. The problem is most people can't get thier head around where the real money is in the economy and its not in retail that most clamor for.....eg my Amazon/ebay/paypal


That said I still cant bring myself to part with a single LTC.

  litecoin "dying".... i dont know any alt coins that aren't "dying" to be honest.

that is true! pump n dump!

[smoothie]

Go back 10 months to August 2013 where difficulty kept rising and rising for 3 months straight which in turn pulled the price up in is own way.

Your theory doesn't always hold true. If you were around as long as I have you would know that your bolded statement isn't 100% true.

1. It's not a theory
2. Yes it is true

If price does not always follow difficulty, that means price doesn't follow difficulty. IF price goes down while difficulty goes up, how can you say price follows difficulty? Answer: You can't unless you want to ignore all the times that it doesn't. To state otherwise is blasphemy.

Perhaps you could say "sometimes price follows difficulty", but the statement "price follows difficulty" is not true. There are many other factors at play than simply difficulty as I stated, funny how you ignore that. You guys just cherry pick things that suite your argument, and I address every point you bring up. I have brought up a lot of good points ITT that you guys continually ignore.

I gave you one of a few actual instances where Price followed difficulty.

Nice try refuting that and saying "Yes it is true and not a theory".

Your theory equates to "100% of the time Price does not follow Difficulty" or "100% of the time Difficulty Follows Price".

My example breaks your claim. It is funny that you ignore that.

The more you post it appears it seems this entire thread is an attempt to ego boost yourself out of your own failures in life and in the crypto world.

I've outted you as one who makes claims and promises and most of the time fails to deliver as he promised. Just like now when I gave you a specific example of where your flawed theory is incorrect you try to justify why you are "right".

lol You are truly pathetic.

[smoothie]

you hate that I am pointing out why Litecoin is a crap coin, and you have a personal vendetta against me since I called your physical Litecoins overpriced. Just admit it bro, everyone can tell.

Okay so we have established a few things:

1. You think Litecoin is a crap coin.

Although I don't hate it at all that you call it a crap coin but you were just supporting it not long ago. I think it is rather funny. PRESUMPTUOUS ARE WE that I hate it when you do that?  

2. You think I have a personal vendetta against you because you called my physical Litecoins overpriced.

lol that is funny. To be clear no I am not mad about that. You can have your opinion of what you think about my coins. I'm thick skinned unlike you who runs and whines at the first sign of opposition.

My whole entire motto on this forum from day 1 has been to call out people's bullshit. Coinhoarder you have made so many claims and promises that you never fulfilled and that is the bullshit I call out. Not to mention how you presume to claim you know that "smart money" isn't smart (or that smart) despite you being dumb money yourself by your own track record.

Remember this where you made a claim and it couldn't have been further from the truth?

I'm not going to waste my time arguing with Smoothie anymore. Apparently, in Smoothie's court of law, libel must be proven by the person who wrote the statement. However, in the real world, Libel must be proven by the person who gets defamed. If Smoothie truly feels like I have spread libel against his company, I welcome him to lawyer up and do something about it. Until then, all he can do is blow hot air.

This is my last statement on Smoothie. Today is a new day, and I am going to just ignore any future trolling attempts by arguably my biggest competitor. I think he is scared I might kill the golden goose only a couple of months into its existence. It is what it is.

I just consumed the first Chocolate Litecoin.. it's possibly the first chocolate Litecoin ever in existence.. pretty cool! They look absolutely beautiful, I will post pics soon. I need to get someone to let me borrow a better camera than what's on my droid. I'm going to try and do that tonight.

Cheers,

Ch

My response: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=1940.msg45262#msg45262

Passive aggressive are we?

The odd thing is you actually think that your comments are damaging my rep. My rep is based on calling out BS (the old Smoothie). Now given the fact that I've openly said "not that I doubt you..." but asked you to prove your claims and you obviously can't, it goes to show that perhaps making claims you can't backup isn't your best approach as a sales tactic.

When making said claims it would be wise to keep your comments to your own coins as opposed to bringing other (pretty much "all other coins") into said comments/sales pitches.

"Trolling" in your book is asking simple questions to get at actual proof of said claims.

I've made my point many times over now. I'll let you believe what you want.

Oh and your bolded statement made me laugh. 

And as I said here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289668.msg3121113#msg3121113

Good luck to you sir. 

Well we both know how that statement turned out. I just laughed at you when you made that comment and that sentence never materialized.


Much of your arguments in this thread are so generalized that you have so much wiggle room to get out of what you really are saying or claiming. Not to mention that some of your claims are with one foot in the door and one out of the door as if you are riding the fence. If you had a track record of being correct and had proof of risk you took to support your claims in the past predictions you made (and were successful with proof) I would be more inclined to listen to your arguments but that is not the case. You are just a guy on a forum who needs an ego boost given all of your recent failures in crypto and in your personal life.

My track record (asided from being the "troll" that calls people's bullshit out) is clear on this forum.

[CoinHoarder]

I'd venture to say I have a better idea of how much hardware has been sold than you, seeing as though I used to distribute Gridseed mining hardware, and had contacts high up on the food chain in those regards. Sure, I agree a 10% increase is pitiful compared to a 120% increase, but anyone that knows anything knows that Dogecoin is crap so I'm not sure what your point is in that comparison.

Your experience selling 300kh hardware released in February does not give you any specific or applicable knowledge about numbers related to the latest 80mh hardware.

The point of the Dogecoin reference is to help you with your definition of "pitiful."

I conceded earlier that Litecoin is the most secure Scrypt coin, and admittedly I haven't had time to keep up with the Litecoin network hash rate as I have been moving, so I will assume that you are correct that Litecoin's SCRYPT hashrate is bigger than all other Scrypt coins combined.

The problem is that argument is invalid as to a reason why it should be chosen as an investment above one that can't be mined at all (any purely PoS variant.) Furthermore, both Bitcoiners and Litecoins mostly ignore the fact of all the wasted electricity and computing power that is being consumed/wasted by PoW and fail to see the importance of PoS-like schemes and scientific coins such as Primecoin. One solves the electricity problem and the other solves the waste of processing power. They both solve a problem, all Litecoin does is speed up the block time and increase coin numbers which can also be done on a coin that solves a problem such as the examples AKA. innovative.

I'm not saying that finding Prime numbers is going to change the world, but if one useful thing was developed I am hopeful that someone will find a way to figure out something that will. Also, it is debatable which form of PoS is the best and it is still not an exact science yet, I feel like the answer is close if not here already. It's hard to keep up with all the tweaks to PoS people have done. Again, both of these are innovative and solve problems, meanwhile all Litecoin does is speed up the block time and increase coin numbers which can also be done on a coin that solves a problem such as the examples AKA. innovative.

Actually.. people that are mining on multi pools are usually making more profit than people mining purely Litecoin. It is ridiculous to refute this fact, if you had any hands on experience then you would know so. Sure they have less liquidity, but it doesn't mean a higher profit can't be made mining something other than Litecoin, in fact it is a preposterous statement to say that multi pools are less profitable than purely mining Litecoin, or any coin for that matter. The same could be said for sha256 mining. If you aren't making more money in the long term on a multi pool, then you are on a crappy multi pool. Not all multi pools are as profitable as others due to the different techniques used.

First of all, what is profitable for someone with 5mh is not the same as what is profitable for someone with 50, in coin switching. The coins they mine are so illiquid that coins sit unexchanged and often by the time the market absorbs them, the price has been driven down to the point where it was less profitable. Yes, I have firsthand experience with this dynamic. Profit switching is only going to get worse.

You need to find yourself a better multi scrypt (see argument #1) coin pool. They do not all switch the same, exchange coins right away, etc.. they all have different strategies. If I was a smart multi coin pool operator, I would point a percentage of the pool to each of the coins that are more profitable to further negate anything that could happen in the market, and again exchange them quickly (as to your other point.) Also point a higher percentage of the pool's hash rate if you're risk adverse (or lower if you're risk prone) towards more stable currencies. Coinshift introduced slowly switching in between different coins instead of instantly switching them.. there are a lot of ways you can go about it. Use an exchange like Crypsty to automatically exchange coins as fast as you can, you can set it to auto trade for you, or wait a set amount of time for the market to adjust back up from the other multi pools dumping. There are a lot of ways you can go about it, I guarantee you some have put more thought into their strategies than others and you can see it on charts like the following. You can see there are some multi pools that consistently mine above what simply mining Litecoin could: http://i.snag.gy/9QOQN.jpg

Ok, so you're not a noob, but you are clueless if you think price follows difficulty. You are ignoring all the money flowing into the infrastructure of Bitcoin. You are so focused on mining hardware that you can't realize the big picture. With Bitcoin much more of that money was also spent on things such as payment processors, exchanges, services, and protocols on top of Bitcoin. This isn't happening with Litecoin on the same scale it is happening with Bitcoin, at least not to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars like Bitcoin. The reason for the price hike was many factors, and you seem to be insinuating that it is purely because of Bitcoin ASICs which is a ludicrous statement. Look in the project development and development subforums here and compare it to the Litecoin forums... a large percentage of money going into Litecoin is going into purely mining hardware, whereas with Bitcoin its being spread around all over the place. Stop acting like you have it all figured out when you are obviously clueless.

If price follows difficulty, then tell me why the Bitcoin price has not followed this trend the past 6 months? https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate

If you want more examples, they are numerous and I would be happy to provide them to you. It would be easier if you just did the research yourself though.

When the option to find another more profitable coin to mine is no longer there, dumping will no longer be economically feasible. Hoarding will force price to move, as long as the increased strength and growth stimulates interest and press (which it will). It is not a direct correlation, it is symptomatic. Demand drives price. Security and reliability (strength) drives demand.

Sorry, but there will usually always be a more profitable Scrypt coin (again see argument #1). It has been like that for a long time, and I don't see it changing anytime soon. Do to market dynamics and mining dynamics Litecoin will never consistently stay at the top of the Scrypt coin profitable list. I say this because since the release of web sites like coinchoose, coinwarz, etc.. historically Litecoin is not at the top of that list, or even in the top 3 or 5. Sure, it is usually at least top 10 and sometimes #1, however the majority of the time there are others that would be more profitable. Go to any site you choose this very moment as you can see there are a few that are more profitable to mine than Litecoin. If Litecoin is the most profitable coin to mine, then more people jump on it making the difficulty go up and making other coins more profitable (visa versa with all other Scrypt coins.)

http://coinchoose.com/litecoin.php
http://www.coinwarz.com/miningprofitability/litecoin
http://dustcoin.com/

And by the way...don't fix my post when you don't know what you're talking about. That $30million number I posted was calculated based on the increase in Litecoin's network hashrate since the introduction of the 80MH/s models from Innosilicon, Zeusminer and Silverfish at an average wholesale cost of $9000 per 80MH/s device. I know you fancy yourself quite the know-it-all here, but you don't have your facts straight.

That's all good and nice, and it would be applicable to the debate if price followed difficulty. However, your statement is based on a flawed premise that price follows difficulty, and that mining hardware investments for Bitcoin are the only reason Bitcoin's price has gone up. When in fact it has been proven over the years during the numerous ups and downs that price does not follow difficulty, and also ignoring all the money going into many different aspects of the Bitcoin infrastructure.. not just mining hardware.

Furthermore, Litecoin having the most secure ALT coin network is a flat out lie. Most of the coins in the top 10 market cap are not Scrypt coins. Sure, you have the most secure SCRYPT alt coin. Everyone knows pretty much all Scrypt coins are crap, so you guys are like king of the crap coins. Congratulations, that's a huge accomplishment. The newer more innovative coins don't need to waste millions in electricity spitting out useless strings of data to secure their block chains, meanwhile subjecting their miners to pre-order scams and shady mining manufacturers. Nor do they have to worry about centralization of the network further down the road like all ASIC mine-able coins will have to succumb to.

Don't mix arguments. Price following difficulty or not has zero bearing on the calculation of how much money has been put into hardware infrastructure in the last 6-8 weeks.

All these arguments are related and it is hard not to discuss some things without mentioning others. It is the overall picture I am more worried about. You act like money being put into mining hardware (Scrypt ASICs and power hungry PoW) are a good thing. Sure, if you like oligarchies and killing planet earth at an accelerated rate they are a good thing. Your coin is more secure than all Scrypt coins, but it comes at the cost of electricity and centralization. Just wait until the VCs and bankers start mining... we haven't seen nothing yet when it comes to difficulty increases in Bitcoin/Litecoin. Eventually it will become quite centralized and definitely unprofitable (if it isn't already... that's debatable) to anyone without extremely deep pockets.

You spend a lot of time justifying your points with "everyone knows."

I will try to refrain from that in the future and provide more facts and links such as I have in this post. It is a fact tho that price does not follow difficulty.. it's not even debatable see my reply to Smoothie (if that's what you were referring to.)

The discussion about energy efficiency is not germane to the discussion of security, either. Bitcoin doesn't get it wrong.

I agree, but energy efficiency should be a factor in choosing an electronic currency, no? Do you leave your car running 24/7 also? Bitcoin DOES have it wrong. I feel the same about Bitcoin as to this point, PoW, and ASICs. This is a big part of the whole idea I am trying to convey that Litecoin simply is copying Bitcoin's mistakes. If it doesn't have anything innovative to stand on its own, it will become irrelevant if anything overtakes Bitcoin, which is more possible than everyone would like to believe.

This supposition you seem to have that we need something with more bells and whistles is symptomatic of the "pump and dump" mentality that has overrun alt coins, where some trivial or pointless (or untenable) "feature" is used to craft a plausible story to back a "pump." They are all houses of cards.

In all seriousness, it's funny that you just described my exact opinion of Litecoin in the above paragraph. Except you over generalize in the last statement "they are all a house of cards." Sure, most of them are I agree... even 95% or more of them are, I also agree. Not all of them are gimmicks and only make minor changes (cough... Litecoin.) There are many very innovative coins in development and coins that already exist that are going to really shake up the whole ALT coin scene due to their features and innovation. Most of the coins in the past have been pump and dumps I agree (cough... Litecoin,) but some people are really trying to change the way people think about and use crypto currency.

Some features may seem unnecessary.... or as you guys like to put it a "gimmick", however people like features. What don't you guys understand about this? Sure, Bitcoin and Litecoin work just the way they are. What may seem gimmicky to you might totally sell another person on a crypto currency. The more features you add the more likely someone is going to find crypto currencies useful, specifically the one that has the features they like. You guys may be fine with Bitcoin/Litecoin how it is, but I know I am not alone in saying that I want more features. There is literally no amount of features that I would deem too many. If that feature gains one new user to the crypto currency, then it was a success.

Obviously some features are more useful/valuable than others. This is where the I think you guys (Smoothie doesn't like me saying you guys, but I keep hearing different people make the same arguments. It is easier for me to address all of you at the same time) overgeneralize that everything is a gimmick because there certainly have been some gimmicky changes to scam coins in the past (cough... Litecoin.) All of the coins that will be worth anything actually add useful features that at least someone (ME!) will want to use, I venture to guess I am not alone, and the market has agreed with that guess.

Bitcoin/Litecoin will never replace or take a huge market share from FIAT if more features aren't added. The average sheeple don't mind eating the fees and inflation of FIAT and Debit/Credit cards etcetra. We need to give them more incentive to use crypto currencies. By adding utility to money it makes it more valuable and makes it even more so different from the rather boring FIAT/BTC/LTC. Money doesn't have to specifically be used to pay for things, newer crypto currencies are redefining what people think money should be and what it should be used for. It could be used to do just about anything, and there is no reason why it shouldn't be used for more things than simply make payments.

I know you won't be convinced, and I don't feel compelled to try and sway you. You are just wrong , and your conclusions are based not on precedent and facts, but emotional conjecture and, I assume, a motivation (conscious or otherwise) to pump your new favorites by discrediting the reigning #2. You're barking up the wrong tree.

That's incorrect, I haven't decided which new coin I will invest in. I probably won't have money to for a while. I've been supporting Litecoin for about 2 years and I was only Litecoin rich for a few months when something happened in my life and I needed to cash out all my coins to live on. They have increased a lot in value since then and I wish I was able to hold onto them. It was a very hard decision to not support Litecoin anymore, and I did so long after I didn't own any Litecoins. Believe me, I lobbied hard and LOUD for change on litecointalk.org and no one listened. Now I am laying everything out here and trying to wake you guys up. You can still fix all these problems.

[CoinHoarder]

Litecoiners in full force tonight!

Give me 10-15 to get back to you Smoothie.

[smoothie]

In case anyone here missed the original post where Coinhoarder decided to leave Litecoin because of his own reasoning. Here it is for others to dissect if they wish:

LINK: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=1940.msg157795#msg157795

Hi all,

Due to a conflict of interest I will no longer be making physical Litecoins and am abandoning my plans to make future editions of physical Litecoins. I am planning on continuing this venture, but I will no longer be minting physical Litecoins.. it will be for other cryptocoins. The main reason for this is that I have lost all interest in Litecoin and no longer see it as a good investment. It has taken me a while to get to this point and there is really no one reason in particular, but a few things stand out above the rest. I brought up some ideas to the community and the Litecoin developers about building a protocol on top of Litecoin, and was largely ignored and patronized. There is a very dangerously lethargic mindset that seems to be a common way of thinking that exists in Litecoiner's heads, or at least the ones that visit these forums. I think sitting at number 2 atop of the cryptocoin leader board has gone to most of their heads and most of them think (I actually saw someone type this today) that Litecoin is too big to fail.

The idea that all Litecoin needs to do is promote itself and doesn't need to innovate and add new features is deeply flawed. While Litecoiners are too busy worried about promoting themselves, other cryptocoins are developing massive innovations that will rock the foundation of cryptocoins as we know them today. While Litecoin sits back and makes mostly insignificant improvements along with security updates, there are some new players in the industry that are doing really amazing things that add true intrinsic value to the cryptocoin space. Simply put, a faster block speed (which is basically the only useful thing about Litecoin) is starting to look less like a good selling point and more like every other copy cat coin in existence.

When I got involved with Litecoin almost two years ago, I was certain it would become more popular and valuable as a safe haven for GPU miners, and I was proven to be correct. However that effect has come and gone with ASICs being released this year and the GPU miners are jumping ship to other coins. There is really no reason or use for Litecoin anymore, and I can no longer say that I am certain it will grow in popularity and value. Other coins have fairer launches now and other coins have faster or similar block speeds. There is nothing that sets Litecoin apart from the other ALT coins as being a sure bet any more, and I am very worried for its future. Especially with the current development team that doesn't see innovation as being important, along with the community that shares that sentiment. It is for these reasons I will no longer support Litecoin. I have thought very hard and long about this and I feel bad about doing this, however I cannot support what I don't believe in... that's just not me.

Thanks for the few people that supported my endeavors here with CryptoVest, it will always be appreciated. Thanks to those of you that I had very good conversations with over the years on these forums. Thanks to Litecoin for helping me get my feet wet in the cryptocoin space, and coincidentally helping me meet new friends that I will have for the rest of my life I'm sure. Feel free to contact me through Bitcointalk or my personal email willconnatser007@gmail.com  -> Replace 007 with 87 though

I am very excited about the future of cryptos and I will stay heavily involved with the cryptocoin community as I have in the past, but I will no longer spend most of my time and energy on Litecoin. 

Thanks again to you all and take care,

Will

[CoinHoarder]

In case anyone here missed the original post where Coinhoarder decided to leave Litecoin because of his own reasoning. Here it is for others to dissect if they wish:

LINK: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=1940.msg157795#msg157795

Hi all,

Due to a conflict of interest I will no longer be making physical Litecoins and am abandoning my plans to make future editions of physical Litecoins. I am planning on continuing this venture, but I will no longer be minting physical Litecoins.. it will be for other cryptocoins. The main reason for this is that I have lost all interest in Litecoin and no longer see it as a good investment. It has taken me a while to get to this point and there is really no one reason in particular, but a few things stand out above the rest. I brought up some ideas to the community and the Litecoin developers about building a protocol on top of Litecoin, and was largely ignored and patronized. There is a very dangerously lethargic mindset that seems to be a common way of thinking that exists in Litecoiner's heads, or at least the ones that visit these forums. I think sitting at number 2 atop of the cryptocoin leader board has gone to most of their heads and most of them think (I actually saw someone type this today) that Litecoin is too big to fail.

The idea that all Litecoin needs to do is promote itself and doesn't need to innovate and add new features is deeply flawed. While Litecoiners are too busy worried about promoting themselves, other cryptocoins are developing massive innovations that will rock the foundation of cryptocoins as we know them today. While Litecoin sits back and makes mostly insignificant improvements along with security updates, there are some new players in the industry that are doing really amazing things that add true intrinsic value to the cryptocoin space. Simply put, a faster block speed (which is basically the only useful thing about Litecoin) is starting to look less like a good selling point and more like every other copy cat coin in existence.

When I got involved with Litecoin almost two years ago, I was certain it would become more popular and valuable as a safe haven for GPU miners, and I was proven to be correct. However that effect has come and gone with ASICs being released this year and the GPU miners are jumping ship to other coins. There is really no reason or use for Litecoin anymore, and I can no longer say that I am certain it will grow in popularity and value. Other coins have fairer launches now and other coins have faster or similar block speeds. There is nothing that sets Litecoin apart from the other ALT coins as being a sure bet any more, and I am very worried for its future. Especially with the current development team that doesn't see innovation as being important, along with the community that shares that sentiment. It is for these reasons I will no longer support Litecoin. I have thought very hard and long about this and I feel bad about doing this, however I cannot support what I don't believe in... that's just not me.

Thanks for the few people that supported my endeavors here with CryptoVest, it will always be appreciated. Thanks to those of you that I had very good conversations with over the years on these forums. Thanks to Litecoin for helping me get my feet wet in the cryptocoin space, and coincidentally helping me meet new friends that I will have for the rest of my life I'm sure. Feel free to contact me through Bitcointalk or my personal email willconnatser007@gmail.com  -> Replace 007 with 87 though

I am very excited about the future of cryptos and I will stay heavily involved with the cryptocoin community as I have in the past, but I will no longer spend most of my time and energy on Litecoin.  

Thanks again to you all and take care,

Will

Yes, that sums up my opinion pretty well. That post isn't nearly as thorough as I'm being here though, the gloves are off.

[CoinHoarder]

Go back 10 months to August 2013 where difficulty kept rising and rising for 3 months straight which in turn pulled the price up in is own way.

Your theory doesn't always hold true. If you were around as long as I have you would know that your bolded statement isn't 100% true.

1. It's not a theory
2. Yes it is true

If price does not always follow difficulty, that means price doesn't follow difficulty. IF price goes down while difficulty goes up, how can you say price follows difficulty? Answer: You can't unless you want to ignore all the times that it doesn't. To state otherwise is blasphemy.

Perhaps you could say "sometimes price follows difficulty", but the statement "price follows difficulty" is not true. There are many other factors at play than simply difficulty as I stated, funny how you ignore that. You guys just cherry pick things that suite your argument, and I address every point you bring up. I have brought up a lot of good points ITT that you guys continually ignore.

I gave you one of a few actual instances where Price followed difficulty.

Nice try refuting that and saying "Yes it is true and not a theory".

Your theory equates to "100% of the time Price does not follow Difficulty" or "100% of the time Difficulty Follows Price".

My example breaks your claim. It is funny that you ignore that.

The more you post it appears it seems this entire thread is an attempt to ego boost yourself out of your own failures in life and in the crypto world.

Just like now when I gave you a specific example of where your flawed theory is incorrect you try to justify why you are "right".

lol You are truly pathetic.

If price doesn't follow difficulty once (it has happened many times,) then it is a true statement that price doesn't follow difficulty. Sure, price can coincidentally follow difficulty or not follow difficulty, however price is completely separate from difficulty:

- Price is determined by many factors
- Difficulty is determined by how many hashes are thrown at the network

How hard is that to understand?

[CoinHoarder]

you hate that I am pointing out why Litecoin is a crap coin, and you have a personal vendetta against me since I called your physical Litecoins overpriced. Just admit it bro, everyone can tell.

Okay so we have established a few things:

1. You think Litecoin is a crap coin.

Although I don't hate it at all that you call it a crap coin but you were just supporting it not long ago. I think it is rather funny. PRESUMPTUOUS ARE WE that I hate it when you do that?  

Compared to some of the newer coins (and ones in development) with the same features, as fair a release, more features, and innovative approaches, YES! A million times over yes, Litecoin is a crap coin compared to those coins. This is what I mean by the dynamics have changed. You are silly to believe that someone's opinion can't change on something due to developments over the past couple years. You are being stubborn in your support of Litecoin, I am simply looking at the big picture with no bias.. I don't own any coins. Purely PoS and truly innovative coins did not really exist when I got into Litecoin, and I saw oppurtunity from GPU miners switching from Bitcoin to Litecoin. SHORT TERM opportunity that has sense passed.

2. You think I have a personal vendetta against you because you called my physical Litecoins overpriced.

lol that is funny. To be clear no I am not mad about that. You can have your opinion of what you think about my coins. I'm thick skinned unlike you who runs and whines at the first sign of opposition.

My whole entire motto on this forum from day 1 has been to call out people's bullshit. Coinhoarder you have made so many claims and promises that you never fulfilled and that is the bullshit I call out. Not to mention how you presume to claim you know that "smart money" isn't smart (or that smart) despite you being dumb money yourself by your own track record.

Remember this where you made a claim and it couldn't have been further from the truth?

Tell me what this has to do with Litecoin and why it's better than everything else?

I don't deny some of what you're saying, it's the fact that you're repeating it over and over instead of talking about the thread's topic. You think anyone that cares hasn't seen all that? This is why I think you have some kind of vendetta against me, because you try to make me look as bad as possible when I'm here trying to have an earnest debate about Litecoin. You are an asshole... an asshole in denial about Litecoin.

Well we both know how that statement turned out. I just laughed at you when you made that comment and that sentence never materialized.

For the millionth time, I have the right to defend myself and not let you walk all over me Smoothie the asshole. Why don't you take your Lealana coins out of your ass for a second?

Much of your arguments in this thread are so generalized that you have so much wiggle room to get out of what you really are saying or claiming. Not to mention that some of your claims are with one foot in the door and one out of the door as if you are riding the fence. If you had a track record of being correct and had proof of risk you took to support your claims in the past predictions you made (and were successful with proof) I would be more inclined to listen to your arguments but that is not the case. You are just a guy on a forum who needs an ego boost given all of your recent failures in crypto and in your personal life.

My track record (asided from being the "troll" that calls people's bullshit out) is clear on this forum.

My arguments are valid, if they are not then show me how they aren't valid. I will continue to believe and tell people otherwise until you do. All you can say is that I am wrong, but you can't put to words as to why I am wrong. So that leads me (and anyone else that's following this discourse) to believe that you can't. All you have on me is that I am a horrible person and that I don't know what I'm talking about, both of which couldn't be further from the truth. You can't say why as to not me as a horrible idiot of a person, but the arguments I've laid out in this thread. If the arguments I've laid out are so idiotic, then they should be easy to refute, no?

[CoinHoarder]

*crickets*

http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/period-charts.php?period=6-months&resolution=day&pair=ltc-btc&market=btc-e

[Litesire]

So BTC price went up and LTC price went down. Congratz to ASICs for killing off the scrypt market.

[FreeJack2k2]

*crickets*

http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/period-charts.php?period=6-months&resolution=day&pair=ltc-btc&market=btc-e

As though its price relative to Bitcoin is an all-encompassing measure of its success?

Good thing we aren't measuring Bitcoin's success that way (relative to the dollar), it's still almost 50% off its high in November...yet I see a LOT of reasons to be bullish on Bitcoin.

There are obvious and well-documented reasons for the drop relative to Bitcoin that have nothing to do with sentiment.

The newsmedia declared Bitcoin dead numerous times in 2013 based on price. They were wrong, too.

[El Dude]

what happened to you CoinHoarder why did you become such a troll ?

[ShroomsKit_Disgrace]

what happened to you CoinHoarder why did you become such a troll ?

Troll???

Face the reality El Dude:

http://coinmarketcap.com/ltc_180.html

[reRaise]

what happened to you CoinHoarder why did you become such a troll ?

El Dude biggest Litecoin retard and a shill been shilling on Bitcointalk for so long for people to buy Litecoin. Guess what all those have lost money big time. And this guy has the guts to talk shit on other coins while promoting the biggest pump and dump in Crypto history. I guess what goes around comes back around  

[digitalindustry]

El ~its going to 100!!!1~ Dude.

; ) truth is i can't help but like the guy hes a pretty good troller and i think LTC has a future.

[El Dude]

truth is Litecoin's volumes destroys Quarks lol

Litecoin 24 hour volume $ 3,790,013   
Quark 24 hour volume $ 9,381   

[favelle75]

Could the volume be low simply because people don't want to sell at these prices?

[Baitty]

Could the volume be low simply because people don't want to sell at these prices?

Possible but I dont think thats the reason.

[reRaise]

truth is Litecoin's volumes destroys Quarks lol

Litecoin 24 hour volume $ 3,790,013   
Quark 24 hour volume $ 9,381   

Yeah Litecoins volume has been high because people have been selling for ages lol

[El Dude]

truth is Litecoin's volumes destroys Quarks lol

Litecoin 24 hour volume $ 3,790,013   
Quark 24 hour volume $ 9,381   

Yeah Litecoins volume has been high because people have been selling for ages lol

for every seller theres a buyer

[reRaise]

truth is Litecoin's volumes destroys Quarks lol

Litecoin 24 hour volume $ 3,790,013   
Quark 24 hour volume $ 9,381   

Yeah Litecoins volume has been high because people have been selling for ages lol

for every seller theres a buyer

There have been more selling pressure than buys. Lots of Litecoins have been put up for sell making the volume go up. There is nothing to be proud of high volume when the price is going down for months.

[devphp]

for every seller theres a bagholder

FIFY

[CoinHoarder]

what happened to you CoinHoarder why did you become such a troll ?

I'm trying to have an earnest debate. The definition of trolling should not be anyone that has a difference of opinion and speaks it..

*crickets*

http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/period-charts.php?period=6-months&resolution=day&pair=ltc-btc&market=btc-e

As though its price relative to Bitcoin is an all-encompassing measure of its success?

Not necessarily, but it is evidence that people are cashing out of Litecoin and see the problems with it that I see.

Good thing we aren't measuring Bitcoin's success that way (relative to the dollar), it's still almost 50% off its high in November...yet I see a LOT of reasons to be bullish on Bitcoin.

The difference is Bitcoin is rebounding and Litecoin is not. These are the USD charts for each the past 3 months:

http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/period-charts.php?period=3-months&resolution=day&pair=btc-usd&market=btc-e
http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/period-charts.php?period=3-months&resolution=day&pair=ltc-usd&market=btc-e

This must be a coincidence?

There are obvious and well-documented reasons for the drop relative to Bitcoin that have nothing to do with sentiment.

And those "obvious" reasons are what?

I believe this has everything to do with sentiment, that is how prices of crypto currencies are established, supply and demand. The demand has gone down over the past 6 months and you can't deny it as the supply stays the same.. that is the point of difficulty.

Anyways, if you aren't happy with me using BTC/LTC charts.. the USD/LTC chart looks pretty much the same:
http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/period-charts.php?period=6-months&resolution=day&pair=ltc-usd&market=btc-e

The newsmedia declared Bitcoin dead numerous times in 2013 based on price. They were wrong, too.

The reason why I believe Litecoin is no longer a good investment is not because the price has gone down, it is because of the arguments I've discussed in this thread. The price is just a good indicator that there are others that agree with me.

Also, the difference there is that the news media mostly has no idea what they're talking about, and I have studied crypto currencies hours (sometimes days) at a time for about 2 years now.

[Brilliantrocket]

At the rate it's dropping, you may just have to remove the word slow from the title.

[devphp]

Have fun with the poll, guys

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=673552.0

[digitalindustry]

Could the volume be low simply because people don't want to sell at these prices?

this.

and ouch El Dudeo.

I think LTC can go far far lower and at that time i'll be buying, because i think they will/can pull though,(probably)

i would be buying the "brand" similar to the "Quark Brand", then trying to get them to listen to the wider community to dev that brand, i.e do the things that need to be done like maybe break ASICS? etc.

the brand is too good to just throw, and i like the name - but maybe change it to "Light" much better visual (literally)

[FreeJack2k2]

And those "obvious" reasons are what?

I believe this has everything to do with sentiment, that is how prices of crypto currencies are established, supply and demand. The demand has gone down over the past 6 months and you can't deny it as the supply stays the same.. that is the point of difficulty.

Supply hasn't stayed the same (supply released into circulation). You currently have over 30% of the entire network hashrate accounted for by just FIVE wallet addresses (solo miners). Over on Coinotron there are two miners with over 6 GH/s in hashrate each, and the next two on the list each have over 3 GH/s.

That has concentrated an abnormally gigantic amount of the block rewards into a very few hands and they are all making a mad dash toward ROI, before the even larger hardware starts shipping this month and next, reducing their percentage of the network to a fraction of what it is today.

But it is an abnormal condition for so few miners to have so much of the new coin production...and it won't remain the case as the network is taken over by ASICs and the hashrate redistributes to something approximating normal. The only other coin to have ever gone through this transition is Bitcoin...and it did it at a time when there were a LOT fewer eyes on it and a whole hell of a lot less money involved.

Realistically, no other coin in existence could hold up under these conditions...but Litecoin has not failed. It has lost some ground in price denominated in dollars, but not nearly as much as one would expect, considering the rampant dumping.

[digitalindustry]

And those "obvious" reasons are what?

I believe this has everything to do with sentiment, that is how prices of crypto currencies are established, supply and demand. The demand has gone down over the past 6 months and you can't deny it as the supply stays the same.. that is the point of difficulty.

Supply hasn't stayed the same (supply released into circulation). You currently have over 30% of the entire network hashrate accounted for by just FIVE wallet addresses (solo miners). Over on Coinotron there are two miners with over 6 GH/s in hashrate each, and the next two on the list each have over 3 GH/s.

That has concentrated an abnormally gigantic amount of the block rewards into a very few hands and they are all making a mad dash toward ROI, before the even larger hardware starts shipping this month and next, reducing their percentage of the network to a fraction of what it is today.

But it is an abnormal condition for so few miners to have so much of the new coin production...and it won't remain the case as the network is taken over by ASICs and the hashrate redistributes to something approximating normal. The only other coin to have ever gone through this transition is Bitcoin...and it did it at a time when there were a LOT fewer eyes on it and a whole hell of a lot less money involved.

Realistically, no other coin in existence could hold up under these conditions...but Litecoin has not failed. It has lost some ground in price denominated in dollars, but not nearly as much as one would expect, considering the rampant dumping.

whooh wait a minute i didn't know that , maybe i will have to review that previous statement. that is an appalling concentration, say what you want about Quark pools but with SOLO miners,  what?

[CoinHoarder]

And those "obvious" reasons are what?

I believe this has everything to do with sentiment, that is how prices of crypto currencies are established, supply and demand. The demand has gone down over the past 6 months and you can't deny it as the supply stays the same.. that is the point of difficulty.

Supply hasn't stayed the same.

You currently have over 30% of the entire network hashrate accounted for by just FIVE wallet addresses (solo miners). Over on Coinotron there are two miners with over 6 GH/s in hashrate each, and the next two on the list each have over 3 GH/s.

Supply stays more or less the same no matter who has control of the hash power or how many hashes they throw at it. That is the whole purpose of adjusting difficulty. To debate this point is dumb, just go look at the block frequency chart: http://cryptometer.org/litecoin_60_month_charts.html

What you mean to say is that the supply is more centralized towards big players with deep pockets and/or hardware manufacturers than it used to be.

That has concentrated an abnormally gigantic amount of the block rewards into a very few hands and they are all making a mad dash toward ROI, before the even larger hardware starts shipping this month and next, reducing their percentage of the network to a fraction of what it is today.

You don't like me making inferences, so why are you allowed to make them? Do you know these large miners personally? How can you be sure it is them that are selling Litecoins and not someone that already owned Litecoins who has recently changed their mind about it?

But it is an abnormal condition for so few miners to have so much of the new coin production...and it won't remain the case as the network is taken over by ASICs and the hashrate redistributes to something approximating normal.

We'll agree to disagree on that one, ASICs brings centralization. Why would people buy mining equipment if it won't break even due to people with deep pockets and/or the mark up from mining hardware manufacturers? The idea that it's going to magically fix itself over time doesn't make sense to me. If it doesn't make sense to buy mining hardware (in terms of profit), then what is the point? There are very few people that mine just "to protect the network".

This isn't even as centralized as I am expecting Bitcoin/Litecoin to become. It will get much worse as old money, old money crypto, bankers, and VCs go full throttle on the mining landscape. Due to economies of scale, massive institutions with deep pockets can make a lot of mining hardware much cheaper than what the average miner can buy them for at retail prices.

The only other coin to have ever gone through this transition is Bitcoin...and it did it at a time when there were a LOT fewer eyes on it and a whole hell of a lot less money involved.

That is not true. Litecoin is at about a $252 million market cap right now.. I wouldn't exactly say that's "a whole hell of a lot less money" compared to Bitcoin's Feb 2013 market cap of $228 million. Look at February 2013 forward: http://www.quandl.com/BCHAIN/MKTCP-Bitcoin-Market-Capitalization

The arrival of Bitcoin ASICs also made it more centralized, but they did not see a similar dip in price. Go from February 2013 forward: http://www.quandl.com/BAVERAGE/USD-USD-BITCOIN-Weighted-Price

I agree that there are more people around now than in Feb. 2013, but I'm not sure how this makes a difference in the topic at hand. More people are around to buy Litecoin and Litecoin mining hardware, yet the price is falling and the network is becoming more centralized. How does that support your argument?

Realistically, no other coin in existence could hold up under these conditions...but Litecoin has not failed. It has lost some ground in price denominated in dollars, but not nearly as much as one would expect, considering the rampant dumping.

It has also lost some ground denominated in Bitcoins. You are also making an assumption that no other coin could hold up, as it hasn't happened yet so know one knows what would happen. Again you assume all the dumping is ASIC miners... I think I heard Smoothie himself say he didn't currently have a stake in Litecoin... this is another large assumption as well that it is only ASIC miners dumping. I think personally it is both ASIC miners dumping and market sentiment is shifting. I'd like to state again, Bitcoin's price didn't slip when their ASICs came out, why should Litecoin be given a free pass as to this being the reason for the price falling?

[digitalindustry]

LTC to Gox ?

[TaunSew]

Is Litecoin in free fall right now? 

[Bobsurplus]

LTC to Gox ?

Yes... when will that be happening?

 

[Bobsurplus]

Is Litecoin in free fall right now? 

Nope, but someone did sell about 200k ltc on btc-e a few minutes ago. That was one costly error.

[FreeJack2k2]

Supply stays more or less the same no matter who has control of the hash power or how many hashes they throw at it. That is the whole purpose of adjusting difficulty. To debate this point is dumb, just go look at the block frequency chart: http://cryptometer.org/litecoin_60_month_charts.html

When I say supply, I mean on the exchanges...which portion of the supply is being used to define the price/market for the coin. That is in constant flux, but the constant selling pressure that has been exerted on Litecoin in the last 3-4 months has been unprecedented.

You don't like me making inferences, so why are you allowed to make them? Do you know these large miners personally? How can you be sure it is them that are selling Litecoins and not someone that already owned Litecoins who has recently changed their mind about it?

Because I watch the addresses that are public and the market behavior on a daily basis. All but one of the five largest solo miners have dumped the majority of what they've mined to their wallet addresses. When you look at the launch of the Innosilicon devices, the week after they started deploying in China saw a VERY clear start of the strong extended downtrend we're in. It's like there's a bright flashing neon arrow pointing at that date on Bitcoinwisdom.

That is not true. Litecoin is at about a $252 million market cap right now.. I wouldn't exactly say that's "a whole hell of a lot less money" compared to Bitcoin's Feb 2013 market cap of $228 million. Look at February 2013 forward: http://www.quandl.com/BCHAIN/MKTCP-Bitcoin-Market-Capitalization

I'm referring to Bitcoin's market cap at the time it experienced the ASIC transition, relative to today. But there were FAR, far fewer eyes on Bitcoin at that time than are currently on both it and Litecoin, right now. That and the media have a much greater sway over sentiment than existed when the Bitcoin community was relatively small and very few news outlets reported on it. The entire landscape has changed since then. So the conditions that prevail around Litecoin right now are unlike what Bitcoin had to go through...and it's still holding up, even with a whale dumping his load all over the market, tonight. That's my point...it is going to take a LOT to kill Litecoin off. The market is dealing with some real stiff challenges at the moment and it has resisted a crash.

Things are going to look a lot different by the end of 2014. Time will tell, whose prediction was right.

[organizer]

I've posted in other threads that as BTC continues to make the transition from "underground" to "mainstream" (more adoption every day, more wall st. types involved every day, etc.) there is going to be a void. With more acceptance will come more scrutiny & regulation. People who (have) used BTC to buy pot, buy guns, send money across the globe for whatever reason will (at some point) shy away from BTC due to the above.

There needs to be a legit alternative to BTC that is viable. Will it be LTC? My guess is likely not. I just don't see a whole lot from the LTC community in terms of evolution and innovation of the coin.

Which coin is it? No idea, but there are only a handful (if that) that could emerge that are bringing either actual innovation to the table or have a legit community behind it (not going to name names)... but I don't think it will be an IPO coin or a POS coin that proves to be viable long-term.

[liexel]

Ltc is at least definitely gonna spike with the coming spike in btc.

[Stench]

And those "obvious" reasons are what?

I believe this has everything to do with sentiment, that is how prices of crypto currencies are established, supply and demand. The demand has gone down over the past 6 months and you can't deny it as the supply stays the same.. that is the point of difficulty.

Supply hasn't stayed the same (supply released into circulation). You currently have over 30% of the entire network hashrate accounted for by just FIVE wallet addresses (solo miners). Over on Coinotron there are two miners with over 6 GH/s in hashrate each, and the next two on the list each have over 3 GH/s.

That has concentrated an abnormally gigantic amount of the block rewards into a very few hands and they are all making a mad dash toward ROI, before the even larger hardware starts shipping this month and next, reducing their percentage of the network to a fraction of what it is today.

But it is an abnormal condition for so few miners to have so much of the new coin production...and it won't remain the case as the network is taken over by ASICs and the hashrate redistributes to something approximating normal. The only other coin to have ever gone through this transition is Bitcoin...and it did it at a time when there were a LOT fewer eyes on it and a whole hell of a lot less money involved.

Realistically, no other coin in existence could hold up under these conditions...but Litecoin has not failed. It has lost some ground in price denominated in dollars, but not nearly as much as one would expect, considering the rampant dumping.

whooh wait a minute i didn't know that , maybe i will have to review that previous statement. that is an appalling concentration, say what you want about Quark pools but with SOLO miners,  what?

I couldn't agree more.

[msin]

BTC will continue to be adopted by business/investors/consumers and LTC will not unfortunately. Satoshi's don't allow LTC to be a silver currency. LTC offers nothing new, and the speculation buying is over, you will see some small spikes, but it will indeed die.  I like Charlie Lee, a great guy and appreciate what he's done for Crypto.

Quark, it's already replaced by a new wave of shit alts and will never rise again, it will die a lot faster than LTC along with many other.

Usability rules all, look at Doge and Aurora, even with spectacular marketing, it's going down the toilet.  Big money investors and business always look at usability first.

Nothing will replace BTC as Crypto Gold, POW.  You will see other Crypto's being adopted in different verticals; POS, storage, smart contracts, etc...  But again there will be only one to rule each vertical.  Right now I see Nxt as the POS king.  I see Ethereum as the Smart Contract/Script king.  I predict Sia as the Storage king (not maidsafe), etc...  More verticals will be created and we will hopefully see more innovative Cryptos.  It's a crazy time, but very exciting.  

My advice for investors, ride the IPO wave for new alts, then sell and buy a king coin.

I don't buy Cryptos to sell them, I buy Cryptos to use them, I have never sold a Crypto for Fiat (believe it or not), so take my advice as a holder and not a day trader.

[CoinHoarder]

Supply stays more or less the same no matter who has control of the hash power or how many hashes they throw at it. That is the whole purpose of adjusting difficulty. To debate this point is dumb, just go look at the block frequency chart: http://cryptometer.org/litecoin_60_month_charts.html

When I say supply, I mean on the exchanges...which portion of the supply is being used to define the price/market for the coin. That is in constant flux, but the constant selling pressure that has been exerted on Litecoin in the last 3-4 months has been unprecedented.

Alright, I get what you are saying now and I agree this has affected Litecoin's price. However, I don't see how this helps the argument of why Litecoin is a good investment. Your assumption that it will work itself out over time is just that, an assumption. An assumption that I personally don't agree with due to the reasons I stated earlier.

You don't like me making inferences, so why are you allowed to make them? Do you know these large miners personally? How can you be sure it is them that are selling Litecoins and not someone that already owned Litecoins who has recently changed their mind about it?

Because I watch the addresses that are public and the market behavior on a daily basis. All but one of the five largest solo miners have dumped the majority of what they've mined to their wallet addresses. When you look at the launch of the Innosilicon devices, the week after they started deploying in China saw a VERY clear start of the strong extended downtrend we're in. It's like there's a bright flashing neon arrow pointing at that date on Bitcoinwisdom.

I will take your word for that, but again I don't see how this helps the argument for Litecoin as to the big picture. I find it unlikely that it is not a combination of this and shifting market sentiment, as is evident from a lot of people posting their opinions and the market. You make it seem as if this is the only reason for the downtrend.. ASIC miners dumping.

That is not true. Litecoin is at about a $252 million market cap right now.. I wouldn't exactly say that's "a whole hell of a lot less money" compared to Bitcoin's Feb 2013 market cap of $228 million. Look at February 2013 forward: http://www.quandl.com/BCHAIN/MKTCP-Bitcoin-Market-Capitalization

I'm referring to Bitcoin's market cap at the time it experienced the ASIC transition, relative to today.

That doesn't make sense to me. If you're going to bring market cap into the debate about ASICs being a reason for the downtrend, then I feel like Bitcoin's market cap at the time ASICs were introduced (Feb. through August 2013) should be compared with Litecoin's market cap at the time ASICs were introduced (Dec. 2013 through today).

But there were FAR, far fewer eyes on Bitcoin at that time than are currently on both it and Litecoin, right now.

I still don't get how this helps your argument. There are more people around to buy Litecoins and Litecoin mining hardware, yet the price is going down and the network is becoming more centralized. How does this help make your point?

That and the media have a much greater sway over sentiment than existed when the Bitcoin community was relatively small and very few news outlets reported on it. The entire landscape has changed since then. So the conditions that prevail around Litecoin right now are unlike what Bitcoin had to go through...and it's still holding up, even with a whale dumping his load all over the market, tonight. That's my point...it is going to take a LOT to kill Litecoin off. The market is dealing with some real stiff challenges at the moment and it has resisted a crash.

I agree the media has some sway, and there are more reporters covering crypto currency today than a year ago. However, after a quick search there is only one or two articles stating Litecoin is stagnant or dying. I'm not so sure this is the reason either, there are way more people in the crypto currency community stating this than in the press.

Agreed the landscape has changed a lot sense then, it is why I've change my opinion on Litecoin.

As to your point of Litecoin not dying with the huge dump.. market sentiment won't change overnight unless something drastic were to happen. It will take time for market sentiment to shift, and it has been slowly shifting that way for 6 months now. I don't think Litecoin is "out of the woods" quite yet.

Things are going to look a lot different by the end of 2014. Time will tell, whose prediction was right.

Agreed

[CoinHoarder]

BTC will continue to be adopted by business/investors/consumers and LTC will not unfortunately. Satoshi's don't allow LTC to be a silver currency. LTC offers nothing new, and the speculation buying is over, you will see some small spikes, but it will indeed die.  I like Charlie Lee, a great guy and appreciate what he's done for Crypto.

Quark, it's already replaced by a new wave of shit alts and will never rise again, it will die a lot faster than LTC along with many other.

Usability rules all, look at Doge and Aurora, even with spectacular marketing, it's going down the toilet.  Big money investors and business always look at usability first.

Nothing will replace BTC as Crypto Gold, POW.  You will see other Crypto's being adopted in different verticals; POS, storage, smart contracts, etc...  But again there will be only one to rule each vertical.  Right now I see Nxt as the POS king.  I see Ethereum as the Smart Contract/Script king.  I predict Sia as the Storage king (not maidsafe), etc...  More verticals will be created and we will hopefully see more innovative Cryptos.  It's a crazy time, but very exciting.  

My advice for investors, ride the IPO wave for new alts, then sell and buy a king coin.

I don't buy Cryptos to sell them, I buy Cryptos to use them, I have never sold a Crypto for Fiat (believe it or not), so take my advice as a holder and not a day trader.

I agree with your train of thought here.

Except that I feel it is possible that Bitcoin could be replaced as king at some point in time.

[smoothie]

And those "obvious" reasons are what?

I believe this has everything to do with sentiment, that is how prices of crypto currencies are established, supply and demand. The demand has gone down over the past 6 months and you can't deny it as the supply stays the same.. that is the point of difficulty.

Supply hasn't stayed the same.

You currently have over 30% of the entire network hashrate accounted for by just FIVE wallet addresses (solo miners). Over on Coinotron there are two miners with over 6 GH/s in hashrate each, and the next two on the list each have over 3 GH/s.

Supply stays more or less the same no matter who has control of the hash power or how many hashes they throw at it. That is the whole purpose of adjusting difficulty. To debate this point is dumb, just go look at the block frequency chart: http://cryptometer.org/litecoin_60_month_charts.html

What you mean to say is that the supply is more centralized towards big players with deep pockets and/or hardware manufacturers than it used to be.

That has concentrated an abnormally gigantic amount of the block rewards into a very few hands and they are all making a mad dash toward ROI, before the even larger hardware starts shipping this month and next, reducing their percentage of the network to a fraction of what it is today.

You don't like me making inferences, so why are you allowed to make them? Do you know these large miners personally? How can you be sure it is them that are selling Litecoins and not someone that already owned Litecoins who has recently changed their mind about it?

But it is an abnormal condition for so few miners to have so much of the new coin production...and it won't remain the case as the network is taken over by ASICs and the hashrate redistributes to something approximating normal.

We'll agree to disagree on that one, ASICs brings centralization. Why would people buy mining equipment if it won't break even due to people with deep pockets and/or the mark up from mining hardware manufacturers? The idea that it's going to magically fix itself over time doesn't make sense to me. If it doesn't make sense to buy mining hardware (in terms of profit), then what is the point? There are very few people that mine just "to protect the network".

This isn't even as centralized as I am expecting Bitcoin/Litecoin to become. It will get much worse as old money, old money crypto, bankers, and VCs go full throttle on the mining landscape. Due to economies of scale, massive institutions with deep pockets can make a lot of mining hardware much cheaper than what the average miner can buy them for at retail prices.

The only other coin to have ever gone through this transition is Bitcoin...and it did it at a time when there were a LOT fewer eyes on it and a whole hell of a lot less money involved.

That is not true. Litecoin is at about a $252 million market cap right now.. I wouldn't exactly say that's "a whole hell of a lot less money" compared to Bitcoin's Feb 2013 market cap of $228 million. Look at February 2013 forward: http://www.quandl.com/BCHAIN/MKTCP-Bitcoin-Market-Capitalization

The arrival of Bitcoin ASICs also made it more centralized, but they did not see a similar dip in price. Go from February 2013 forward: http://www.quandl.com/BAVERAGE/USD-USD-BITCOIN-Weighted-Price

I agree that there are more people around now than in Feb. 2013, but I'm not sure how this makes a difference in the topic at hand. More people are around to buy Litecoin and Litecoin mining hardware, yet the price is falling and the network is becoming more centralized. How does that support your argument?

Realistically, no other coin in existence could hold up under these conditions...but Litecoin has not failed. It has lost some ground in price denominated in dollars, but not nearly as much as one would expect, considering the rampant dumping.

It has also lost some ground denominated in Bitcoins. You are also making an assumption that no other coin could hold up, as it hasn't happened yet so know one knows what would happen. Again you assume all the dumping is ASIC miners... I think I heard Smoothie himself say he didn't currently have a stake in Litecoin... this is another large assumption as well that it is only ASIC miners dumping. I think personally it is both ASIC miners dumping and market sentiment is shifting. I'd like to state again, Bitcoin's price didn't slip when their ASICs came out, why should Litecoin be given a free pass as to this being the reason for the price falling?

Supply doesn't stay the same. lol

If you are talking about a particular instant then yes it hasn't changed in the last minute or two.

Over time the supply changes.

The inflation of supply stays the same more or less and THAT is the reason for the difficulty adjustment. There is the correct statement.

[smoothie]

I've posted in other threads that as BTC continues to make the transition from "underground" to "mainstream" (more adoption every day, more wall st. types involved every day, etc.) there is going to be a void. With more acceptance will come more scrutiny & regulation. People who (have) used BTC to buy pot, buy guns, send money across the globe for whatever reason will (at some point) shy away from BTC due to the above.

There needs to be a legit alternative to BTC that is viable. Will it be LTC? My guess is likely not. I just don't see a whole lot from the LTC community in terms of evolution and innovation of the coin.

Which coin is it? No idea, but there are only a handful (if that) that could emerge that are bringing either actual innovation to the table or have a legit community behind it (not going to name names)... but I don't think it will be an IPO coin or a POS coin that proves to be viable long-term.

This is like the most used reason on why LTC will not "succeed".

Since when does innovation = success and only then?

Ford was an innovator...but along came Toyota, Honda, Kia...etc. They weren't very innovative as they basically copied the idea and layout.

Now had Toyota or the others came up with the idea of the airplane ...now that is innovative. But it didn't require innovation to be successful.

[CoinHoarder]

And those "obvious" reasons are what?

I believe this has everything to do with sentiment, that is how prices of crypto currencies are established, supply and demand. The demand has gone down over the past 6 months and you can't deny it as the supply stays the same.. that is the point of difficulty.

Supply hasn't stayed the same.

You currently have over 30% of the entire network hashrate accounted for by just FIVE wallet addresses (solo miners). Over on Coinotron there are two miners with over 6 GH/s in hashrate each, and the next two on the list each have over 3 GH/s.

Supply stays more or less the same no matter who has control of the hash power or how many hashes they throw at it. That is the whole purpose of adjusting difficulty.To debate this point is dumb, just go look at the block frequency chart: http://cryptometer.org/litecoin_60_month_charts.html

What you mean to say is that the supply is more centralized towards big players with deep pockets and/or hardware manufacturers than it used to be.

That has concentrated an abnormally gigantic amount of the block rewards into a very few hands and they are all making a mad dash toward ROI, before the even larger hardware starts shipping this month and next, reducing their percentage of the network to a fraction of what it is today.

You don't like me making inferences, so why are you allowed to make them? Do you know these large miners personally? How can you be sure it is them that are selling Litecoins and not someone that already owned Litecoins who has recently changed their mind about it?

But it is an abnormal condition for so few miners to have so much of the new coin production...and it won't remain the case as the network is taken over by ASICs and the hashrate redistributes to something approximating normal.

We'll agree to disagree on that one, ASICs brings centralization. Why would people buy mining equipment if it won't break even due to people with deep pockets and/or the mark up from mining hardware manufacturers? The idea that it's going to magically fix itself over time doesn't make sense to me. If it doesn't make sense to buy mining hardware (in terms of profit), then what is the point? There are very few people that mine just "to protect the network".

This isn't even as centralized as I am expecting Bitcoin/Litecoin to become. It will get much worse as old money, old money crypto, bankers, and VCs go full throttle on the mining landscape. Due to economies of scale, massive institutions with deep pockets can make a lot of mining hardware much cheaper than what the average miner can buy them for at retail prices.

The only other coin to have ever gone through this transition is Bitcoin...and it did it at a time when there were a LOT fewer eyes on it and a whole hell of a lot less money involved.

That is not true. Litecoin is at about a $252 million market cap right now.. I wouldn't exactly say that's "a whole hell of a lot less money" compared to Bitcoin's Feb 2013 market cap of $228 million. Look at February 2013 forward: http://www.quandl.com/BCHAIN/MKTCP-Bitcoin-Market-Capitalization

The arrival of Bitcoin ASICs also made it more centralized, but they did not see a similar dip in price. Go from February 2013 forward: http://www.quandl.com/BAVERAGE/USD-USD-BITCOIN-Weighted-Price

I agree that there are more people around now than in Feb. 2013, but I'm not sure how this makes a difference in the topic at hand. More people are around to buy Litecoin and Litecoin mining hardware, yet the price is falling and the network is becoming more centralized. How does that support your argument?

Realistically, no other coin in existence could hold up under these conditions...but Litecoin has not failed. It has lost some ground in price denominated in dollars, but not nearly as much as one would expect, considering the rampant dumping.

It has also lost some ground denominated in Bitcoins. You are also making an assumption that no other coin could hold up, as it hasn't happened yet so know one knows what would happen. Again you assume all the dumping is ASIC miners... I think I heard Smoothie himself say he didn't currently have a stake in Litecoin... this is another large assumption as well that it is only ASIC miners dumping. I think personally it is both ASIC miners dumping and market sentiment is shifting. I'd like to state again, Bitcoin's price didn't slip when their ASICs came out, why should Litecoin be given a free pass as to this being the reason for the price falling?

Supply doesn't stay the same. lol

If you are talking about a particular instant then yes it hasn't changed in the last minute or two.

Over time the supply changes.

The inflation of supply stays the same more or less and THAT is the reason for the difficulty adjustment. There is the correct statement.

learn2read

[CoinHoarder]

I've posted in other threads that as BTC continues to make the transition from "underground" to "mainstream" (more adoption every day, more wall st. types involved every day, etc.) there is going to be a void. With more acceptance will come more scrutiny & regulation. People who (have) used BTC to buy pot, buy guns, send money across the globe for whatever reason will (at some point) shy away from BTC due to the above.

There needs to be a legit alternative to BTC that is viable. Will it be LTC? My guess is likely not. I just don't see a whole lot from the LTC community in terms of evolution and innovation of the coin.

Which coin is it? No idea, but there are only a handful (if that) that could emerge that are bringing either actual innovation to the table or have a legit community behind it (not going to name names)... but I don't think it will be an IPO coin or a POS coin that proves to be viable long-term.

This is like the most used reason on why LTC will not "succeed".

Since when does innovation = success and only then?

Ford was an innovator...but along came Toyota, Honda, Kia...etc. They weren't very innovative as they basically copied the idea and layout.

Now had Toyota or the others came up with the idea of the airplane ...now that is innovative. But it didn't require innovation to be successful.

Toyota is successful today because they innovated, maybe you should learn about their history before calling them copy cats. They have a long history of innovating starting with the way cars are mass produced and built to today where they pioneered hybrid vehicles via the Prius.
Honda's history: http://www.toyota-global.com/company/history_of_toyota/
Honda's recent innovations: http://corporate.honda.com/innovation/

Honda got its start innovating the use of auxillary engines in motorcycles and is still today focused on innovation.
Honda's history: http://world.honda.com/history/limitlessdreams/encounter/index.html
Honda's current innovations: http://corporate.honda.com/innovation/

Although Kia didn't get its start innovating products per say, it was the first company in South Korea to make domestic bicycle, motorcycles, cars, and trucks. Today they definitely have a strong focus towards innovating and were innovative in the US market by making vehicles affordable, among other recent innovations.
Kia's history: http://www.kia.lk/corporate/innovation
Kia's current Innovations: http://www.kia.lk/corporate/innovation

Maybe you should research claims a little bit before you make them? It took me 5 minutes to look all this up...

[smoothie]

And those "obvious" reasons are what?

I believe this has everything to do with sentiment, that is how prices of crypto currencies are established, supply and demand. The demand has gone down over the past 6 months and you can't deny it as the supply stays the same.. that is the point of difficulty.

Supply hasn't stayed the same.

You currently have over 30% of the entire network hashrate accounted for by just FIVE wallet addresses (solo miners). Over on Coinotron there are two miners with over 6 GH/s in hashrate each, and the next two on the list each have over 3 GH/s.

Supply stays more or less the same no matter who has control of the hash power or how many hashes they throw at it. That is the whole purpose of adjusting difficulty.To debate this point is dumb, just go look at the block frequency chart: http://cryptometer.org/litecoin_60_month_charts.html

What you mean to say is that the supply is more centralized towards big players with deep pockets and/or hardware manufacturers than it used to be.

That has concentrated an abnormally gigantic amount of the block rewards into a very few hands and they are all making a mad dash toward ROI, before the even larger hardware starts shipping this month and next, reducing their percentage of the network to a fraction of what it is today.

You don't like me making inferences, so why are you allowed to make them? Do you know these large miners personally? How can you be sure it is them that are selling Litecoins and not someone that already owned Litecoins who has recently changed their mind about it?

But it is an abnormal condition for so few miners to have so much of the new coin production...and it won't remain the case as the network is taken over by ASICs and the hashrate redistributes to something approximating normal.

We'll agree to disagree on that one, ASICs brings centralization. Why would people buy mining equipment if it won't break even due to people with deep pockets and/or the mark up from mining hardware manufacturers? The idea that it's going to magically fix itself over time doesn't make sense to me. If it doesn't make sense to buy mining hardware (in terms of profit), then what is the point? There are very few people that mine just "to protect the network".

This isn't even as centralized as I am expecting Bitcoin/Litecoin to become. It will get much worse as old money, old money crypto, bankers, and VCs go full throttle on the mining landscape. Due to economies of scale, massive institutions with deep pockets can make a lot of mining hardware much cheaper than what the average miner can buy them for at retail prices.

The only other coin to have ever gone through this transition is Bitcoin...and it did it at a time when there were a LOT fewer eyes on it and a whole hell of a lot less money involved.

That is not true. Litecoin is at about a $252 million market cap right now.. I wouldn't exactly say that's "a whole hell of a lot less money" compared to Bitcoin's Feb 2013 market cap of $228 million. Look at February 2013 forward: http://www.quandl.com/BCHAIN/MKTCP-Bitcoin-Market-Capitalization

The arrival of Bitcoin ASICs also made it more centralized, but they did not see a similar dip in price. Go from February 2013 forward: http://www.quandl.com/BAVERAGE/USD-USD-BITCOIN-Weighted-Price

I agree that there are more people around now than in Feb. 2013, but I'm not sure how this makes a difference in the topic at hand. More people are around to buy Litecoin and Litecoin mining hardware, yet the price is falling and the network is becoming more centralized. How does that support your argument?

Realistically, no other coin in existence could hold up under these conditions...but Litecoin has not failed. It has lost some ground in price denominated in dollars, but not nearly as much as one would expect, considering the rampant dumping.

It has also lost some ground denominated in Bitcoins. You are also making an assumption that no other coin could hold up, as it hasn't happened yet so know one knows what would happen. Again you assume all the dumping is ASIC miners... I think I heard Smoothie himself say he didn't currently have a stake in Litecoin... this is another large assumption as well that it is only ASIC miners dumping. I think personally it is both ASIC miners dumping and market sentiment is shifting. I'd like to state again, Bitcoin's price didn't slip when their ASICs came out, why should Litecoin be given a free pass as to this being the reason for the price falling?

Supply doesn't stay the same. lol

If you are talking about a particular instant then yes it hasn't changed in the last minute or two.

Over time the supply changes.

The inflation of supply stays the same more or less and THAT is the reason for the difficulty adjustment. There is the correct statement.

learn2read

learn2write

lol your statement bolding doesn't change your misconception of what supply is and how it relates to difficulty (in your writing).

Let's read what you wrote again for the kiddies:

"Supply stays more or less the same no matter who has control of the hash power or how many hashes they throw at it. That is the whole purpose of adjusting difficulty."


Supply doesn't stay more or less the same. The supply is always changing at each block. The difficulty has everything to do with controlling the inflation of supply and not just the supply as you so eloquently failed to do communicate correctly.

[smoothie]

I've posted in other threads that as BTC continues to make the transition from "underground" to "mainstream" (more adoption every day, more wall st. types involved every day, etc.) there is going to be a void. With more acceptance will come more scrutiny & regulation. People who (have) used BTC to buy pot, buy guns, send money across the globe for whatever reason will (at some point) shy away from BTC due to the above.

There needs to be a legit alternative to BTC that is viable. Will it be LTC? My guess is likely not. I just don't see a whole lot from the LTC community in terms of evolution and innovation of the coin.

Which coin is it? No idea, but there are only a handful (if that) that could emerge that are bringing either actual innovation to the table or have a legit community behind it (not going to name names)... but I don't think it will be an IPO coin or a POS coin that proves to be viable long-term.

This is like the most used reason on why LTC will not "succeed".

Since when does innovation = success and only then?

Ford was an innovator...but along came Toyota, Honda, Kia...etc. They weren't very innovative as they basically copied the idea and layout.

Now had Toyota or the others came up with the idea of the airplane ...now that is innovative. But it didn't require innovation to be successful.

Toyota is successful today because they innovated, maybe you should learn about their history before calling them copy cats. They have a long history of innovating starting with the way cars are mass produced and built to today where they pioneered hybrid vehicles via the Prius.
Honda's history: http://www.toyota-global.com/company/history_of_toyota/
Honda's recent innovations: http://corporate.honda.com/innovation/

Honda got its start innovating the use of auxillary engines in motorcycles and is still today focused on innovation.
Honda's history: http://world.honda.com/history/limitlessdreams/encounter/index.html
Honda's current innovations: http://corporate.honda.com/innovation/

Although Kia didn't get its start innovating products per say, it was the first company in South Korea to make domestic bicycle, motorcycles, cars, and trucks. Today they definitely have a strong focus towards innovating and were innovative in the US market by making vehicles affordable, among other recent innovations.
Kia's history: http://www.kia.lk/corporate/innovation
Kia's current Innovations: http://www.kia.lk/corporate/innovation

Maybe you should research claims a little bit before you make them? It took me 5 minutes to look all this up...

I never said they weren't innovative. I said they weren't very innovative as they did not invent something new. Obviously this is my opinion lol.

My point was innovation =/= success as so many including you appear to be claiming here.

[CoinHoarder]

learn2write

lol your statement bolding doesn't change your misconception of what supply is and how it relates to difficulty (in your writing).

Let's read what you wrote again for the kiddies:

"Supply stays more or less the same no matter who has control of the hash power or how many hashes they throw at it. That is the whole purpose of adjusting difficulty."


Supply doesn't stay more or less the same. The supply is always changing at each block. The difficulty has everything to do with controlling the inflation of supply and not just the supply as you so eloquently failed to do communicate correctly.

We are both saying the same thing in different words. All you can do is pick at my words to try to "prove me wrong." Yet, we are both saying the same thing in different words.  

It does stay the same MORE OR LESS. It hasn't deviated from the mean much in its history. http://cryptometer.org/litecoin_60_month_charts.html

Do you not know what more or less means?

[CoinHoarder]

This is like the most used reason on why LTC will not "succeed".

Since when does innovation = success and only then?

Ford was an innovator...but along came Toyota, Honda, Kia...etc. They weren't very innovative as they basically copied the idea and layout.

Now had Toyota or the others came up with the idea of the airplane ...now that is innovative. But it didn't require innovation to be successful.

Toyota is successful today because they innovated, maybe you should learn about their history before calling them copy cats. They have a long history of innovating starting with the way cars are mass produced and built to today where they pioneered hybrid vehicles via the Prius.
Honda's history: http://www.toyota-global.com/company/history_of_toyota/
Honda's recent innovations: http://corporate.honda.com/innovation/

Honda got its start innovating the use of auxillary engines in motorcycles and is still today focused on innovation.
Honda's history: http://world.honda.com/history/limitlessdreams/encounter/index.html
Honda's current innovations: http://corporate.honda.com/innovation/

Although Kia didn't get its start innovating products per say, it was the first company in South Korea to make domestic bicycle, motorcycles, cars, and trucks. Today they definitely have a strong focus towards innovating and were innovative in the US market by making vehicles affordable, among other recent innovations.
Kia's history: http://www.kia.lk/corporate/innovation
Kia's current Innovations: http://www.kia.lk/corporate/innovation

Maybe you should research claims a little bit before you make them? It took me 5 minutes to look all this up...

I never said they weren't innovative. I said they weren't very innovative as they did not invent something new. Obviously this is my opinion lol.

My point was innovation =/= success as so many including you appear to be claiming here.

Nice backtracking there buddy. Seems like I'm not the only one that "gives themselves enough wiggle room to back out of their statements."  

Sure, it's not the only reason for a company's success obviously. They could have a very innovative product, and be scammers at the same time, killing their chances of being successful. Being innovative certainly helps companies be successful though. To deny that is just you being dumb.

[smoothie]

learn2write

lol your statement bolding doesn't change your misconception of what supply is and how it relates to difficulty (in your writing).

Let's read what you wrote again for the kiddies:

"Supply stays more or less the same no matter who has control of the hash power or how many hashes they throw at it. That is the whole purpose of adjusting difficulty."


Supply doesn't stay more or less the same. The supply is always changing at each block. The difficulty has everything to do with controlling the inflation of supply and not just the supply as you so eloquently failed to do communicate correctly.

We are both saying the same thing in different words. All you can do is pick at my words to try to "prove me wrong." Yet, we are both saying the same thing in different words.  

It does stay the same MORE OR LESS. It hasn't deviated from the mean much in its history. http://cryptometer.org/litecoin_60_month_charts.html

Do you not know what more or less means?

LOL you even said "inflation stays the same".

Then went to say "more or less" without addressing that supply and inflation of supply are two different things.

You should probably get your wording correct as then people can't "pick" at your words so easily. lol 

[smoothie]

This is like the most used reason on why LTC will not "succeed".

Since when does innovation = success and only then?

Ford was an innovator...but along came Toyota, Honda, Kia...etc. They weren't very innovative as they basically copied the idea and layout.

Now had Toyota or the others came up with the idea of the airplane ...now that is innovative. But it didn't require innovation to be successful.

Toyota is successful today because they innovated, maybe you should learn about their history before calling them copy cats. They have a long history of innovating starting with the way cars are mass produced and built to today where they pioneered hybrid vehicles via the Prius.
Honda's history: http://www.toyota-global.com/company/history_of_toyota/
Honda's recent innovations: http://corporate.honda.com/innovation/

Honda got its start innovating the use of auxillary engines in motorcycles and is still today focused on innovation.
Honda's history: http://world.honda.com/history/limitlessdreams/encounter/index.html
Honda's current innovations: http://corporate.honda.com/innovation/

Although Kia didn't get its start innovating products per say, it was the first company in South Korea to make domestic bicycle, motorcycles, cars, and trucks. Today they definitely have a strong focus towards innovating and were innovative in the US market by making vehicles affordable, among other recent innovations.
Kia's history: http://www.kia.lk/corporate/innovation
Kia's current Innovations: http://www.kia.lk/corporate/innovation

Maybe you should research claims a little bit before you make them? It took me 5 minutes to look all this up...

I never said they weren't innovative. I said they weren't very innovative as they did not invent something new. Obviously this is my opinion lol.

My point was innovation =/= success as so many including you appear to be claiming here.

Nice backtracking there buddy. Seems like I'm not the only one that "gives themselves enough wiggle room to back out of their statements."  

Sure, it's not the only reason for a company's success obviously. They could have a very innovative product, and be scammers at the same time, killing their chances of being successful. Being innovative certainly helps companies be successful though. To deny that is just you being dumb.

My point I will say again is innovation =/= success 100% of the time.

You really sound butthurt lol.

Please tell the smart money how dumb they are (or "not smart") even though you are not in a position to be a judge of that based on your past failures. 

[CoinHoarder]

learn2write

lol your statement bolding doesn't change your misconception of what supply is and how it relates to difficulty (in your writing).

Let's read what you wrote again for the kiddies:

"Supply stays more or less the same no matter who has control of the hash power or how many hashes they throw at it. That is the whole purpose of adjusting difficulty."


Supply doesn't stay more or less the same. The supply is always changing at each block. The difficulty has everything to do with controlling the inflation of supply and not just the supply as you so eloquently failed to do communicate correctly.

We are both saying the same thing in different words. All you can do is pick at my words to try to "prove me wrong." Yet, we are both saying the same thing in different words.  

It does stay the same MORE OR LESS. It hasn't deviated from the mean much in its history. http://cryptometer.org/litecoin_60_month_charts.html

Do you not know what more or less means?

LOL you even said "inflation stays the same".

Then went to say "more or less" without addressing that supply and inflation of supply are two different things.

You should probably get your wording correct as then people can't "pick" at your words so easily. lol 

I have never once mentioned inflation in this thread.

Inflation & supply, in the context that you and I are discussing them in, are the same thing. They both stay the same more or less.

You are focusing on technicalities of my words when anyone with half a brain would have been able to understand what I was saying.

[CoinHoarder]

This is like the most used reason on why LTC will not "succeed".

Since when does innovation = success and only then?

Ford was an innovator...but along came Toyota, Honda, Kia...etc. They weren't very innovative as they basically copied the idea and layout.

Now had Toyota or the others came up with the idea of the airplane ...now that is innovative. But it didn't require innovation to be successful.

Toyota is successful today because they innovated, maybe you should learn about their history before calling them copy cats. They have a long history of innovating starting with the way cars are mass produced and built to today where they pioneered hybrid vehicles via the Prius.
Honda's history: http://www.toyota-global.com/company/history_of_toyota/
Honda's recent innovations: http://corporate.honda.com/innovation/

Honda got its start innovating the use of auxillary engines in motorcycles and is still today focused on innovation.
Honda's history: http://world.honda.com/history/limitlessdreams/encounter/index.html
Honda's current innovations: http://corporate.honda.com/innovation/

Although Kia didn't get its start innovating products per say, it was the first company in South Korea to make domestic bicycle, motorcycles, cars, and trucks. Today they definitely have a strong focus towards innovating and were innovative in the US market by making vehicles affordable, among other recent innovations.
Kia's history: http://www.kia.lk/corporate/innovation
Kia's current Innovations: http://www.kia.lk/corporate/innovation

Maybe you should research claims a little bit before you make them? It took me 5 minutes to look all this up...

I never said they weren't innovative. I said they weren't very innovative as they did not invent something new. Obviously this is my opinion lol.

My point was innovation =/= success as so many including you appear to be claiming here.

Nice backtracking there buddy. Seems like I'm not the only one that "gives themselves enough wiggle room to back out of their statements."  

Sure, it's not the only reason for a company's success obviously. They could have a very innovative product, and be scammers at the same time, killing their chances of being successful. Being innovative certainly helps companies be successful though. To deny that is just you being dumb.

My point I will say again is innovation =/= success 100% of the time.

You really sound butthurt lol.

Please tell the smart money how dumb they are (or "not smart") even though you are not in a position to be a judge of that based on your past failures.  

Still backtracking. This is what you sound like:

dumbanddumber-soyouthinkthere'sachancememe.jpg

Don't flatter yourself, you are not smart money Smoothie. You were simply in the right place at the right time. With every statement you make you highlight the fact that you are not smart money.

[smoothie]

This is like the most used reason on why LTC will not "succeed".

Since when does innovation = success and only then?

Ford was an innovator...but along came Toyota, Honda, Kia...etc. They weren't very innovative as they basically copied the idea and layout.

Now had Toyota or the others came up with the idea of the airplane ...now that is innovative. But it didn't require innovation to be successful.

Toyota is successful today because they innovated, maybe you should learn about their history before calling them copy cats. They have a long history of innovating starting with the way cars are mass produced and built to today where they pioneered hybrid vehicles via the Prius.
Honda's history: http://www.toyota-global.com/company/history_of_toyota/
Honda's recent innovations: http://corporate.honda.com/innovation/

Honda got its start innovating the use of auxillary engines in motorcycles and is still today focused on innovation.
Honda's history: http://world.honda.com/history/limitlessdreams/encounter/index.html
Honda's current innovations: http://corporate.honda.com/innovation/

Although Kia didn't get its start innovating products per say, it was the first company in South Korea to make domestic bicycle, motorcycles, cars, and trucks. Today they definitely have a strong focus towards innovating and were innovative in the US market by making vehicles affordable, among other recent innovations.
Kia's history: http://www.kia.lk/corporate/innovation
Kia's current Innovations: http://www.kia.lk/corporate/innovation

Maybe you should research claims a little bit before you make them? It took me 5 minutes to look all this up...

I never said they weren't innovative. I said they weren't very innovative as they did not invent something new. Obviously this is my opinion lol.

My point was innovation =/= success as so many including you appear to be claiming here.

Nice backtracking there buddy. Seems like I'm not the only one that "gives themselves enough wiggle room to back out of their statements."  

Sure, it's not the only reason for a company's success obviously. They could have a very innovative product, and be scammers at the same time, killing their chances of being successful. Being innovative certainly helps companies be successful though. To deny that is just you being dumb.

My point I will say again is innovation =/= success 100% of the time.

You really sound butthurt lol.

Please tell the smart money how dumb they are (or "not smart") even though you are not in a position to be a judge of that based on your past failures. 

Still backtracking. This is what you sound like:

lol You still sound butthurt.

[smoothie]

For all the kiddies: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=675213.0

[miffman]

let's get back to the discussion 

So I think LTC is gonna stick around for a while until a huge company like google or apple decides to being in their own cryptocurrency. LTC is great since it has a lot of volume, but that only lasts so long imo 

[bcmine]

Dakota and Devphp are obvious paid NXT sockpupet who think shitty ipo nxt will overtake nxt won't happen no matter how hard they try.

NXT is the future of crypto. 1000000x better than Litecoin could ever dream of being.

Comparing NXT to Litecoin is like comparing Superman to a squirrel.

Ya keep being a sockpupet everyone knows NXT and ipo coins are garbage.

IPO's are the future of coin distribution..

Comparing Ethereum to NXT is more likly comparing Superman to a squirrel. You cant compare nxt to litecoin, as nxt seems to be a transactionsystem with features for business back office like asset exchange, coloured coins etc. Litecoin is for the masses.

Litecoin is a product of 2011 and kept very good over the years and will survive the ASIC turnaround. Unfortunately Litecoin is worth something about 3 Dollars (old and new paradigm). Everything more is a bonus on that coin you can cash out or wait to cash more out.

[CoinHoarder]

Dakota and Devphp are obvious paid NXT sockpupet who think shitty ipo nxt will overtake nxt won't happen no matter how hard they try.

NXT is the future of crypto. 1000000x better than Litecoin could ever dream of being.

Comparing NXT to Litecoin is like comparing Superman to a squirrel.

Ya keep being a sockpupet everyone knows NXT and ipo coins are garbage.

IPO's are the future of coin distribution..

Comparing Ethereum to NXT is more likly comparing Superman to a squirrel. You cant compare nxt to litecoin, as nxt seems to be a transactionsystem with features for business back office like asset exchange, coloured coins etc. Litecoin is for the masses.

I don't buy that statement. No one has to use all of those features of Nxt if they don't want to.

Litecoin is a product of 2011 and kept very good over the years and will survive the ASIC turnaround.

The "Too Big To Fail" mantra is parasitic.

Unfortunately Litecoin is worth something about 3 Dollars (old and new paradigm). Everything more is a bonus on that coin you can cash out or wait to cash more out.

Sure, everything more is bonus if you bought in under $3.

[harposox]

I've posted in other threads that as BTC continues to make the transition from "underground" to "mainstream" (more adoption every day, more wall st. types involved every day, etc.) there is going to be a void. With more acceptance will come more scrutiny & regulation. People who (have) used BTC to buy pot, buy guns, send money across the globe for whatever reason will (at some point) shy away from BTC due to the above.

There needs to be a legit alternative to BTC that is viable. Will it be LTC? My guess is likely not. I just don't see a whole lot from the LTC community in terms of evolution and innovation of the coin.

Which coin is it? No idea, but there are only a handful (if that) that could emerge that are bringing either actual innovation to the table or have a legit community behind it (not going to name names)... but I don't think it will be an IPO coin or a POS coin that proves to be viable long-term.

This is like the most used reason on why LTC will not "succeed".

Since when does innovation = success and only then?

Ford was an innovator...but along came Toyota, Honda, Kia...etc. They weren't very innovative as they basically copied the idea and layout.

Now had Toyota or the others came up with the idea of the airplane ...now that is innovative. But it didn't require innovation to be successful.

Exactly. All of these people talking about "innovation" are just clueless, they're enamored with shiny new toys rather than business fundamentals. In order for mainstream adoption to happen the masses first need to understand bitcoin. They don't yet. Any and all alt coin "innovation" outside of the simple elegance of bitcoin is completely lost on the vast majority of people who might eventually propel cryptos into the mainstream. At this point any innovation above and beyond the block chain and the bitcoin protocol is simply pretty packaging to lure pump and dumpers.

Litecoin has name recognition, market penetration, and superior liquidity due to its market cap and its availability across a wide variety of exchanges. This puts it in an infinitely more stable place, from a business perspective, to succeed than any shitcoin. It's years ahead of the competition. But more importantly, LTC IS THE NATURAL TRADING PARTNER TO BITCOIN, which is the market leader in a completely brand new tech space.

You wanna make real money trading cryptos? Ignore the shitcoins and focus on understanding the relationship between BTC and LTC. There's a shocking amount of money to be made there if you're smart and patient and don't get caught up trying to day trade your way to riches.

[smoothie]

This is like the most used reason on why LTC will not "succeed".

Since when does innovation = success and only then?

Ford was an innovator...but along came Toyota, Honda, Kia...etc. They weren't very innovative as they basically copied the idea and layout.

Now had Toyota or the others came up with the idea of the airplane ...now that is innovative. But it didn't require innovation to be successful.

Toyota is successful today because they innovated, maybe you should learn about their history before calling them copy cats. They have a long history of innovating starting with the way cars are mass produced and built to today where they pioneered hybrid vehicles via the Prius.
Honda's history: http://www.toyota-global.com/company/history_of_toyota/
Honda's recent innovations: http://corporate.honda.com/innovation/

Honda got its start innovating the use of auxillary engines in motorcycles and is still today focused on innovation.
Honda's history: http://world.honda.com/history/limitlessdreams/encounter/index.html
Honda's current innovations: http://corporate.honda.com/innovation/

Although Kia didn't get its start innovating products per say, it was the first company in South Korea to make domestic bicycle, motorcycles, cars, and trucks. Today they definitely have a strong focus towards innovating and were innovative in the US market by making vehicles affordable, among other recent innovations.
Kia's history: http://www.kia.lk/corporate/innovation
Kia's current Innovations: http://www.kia.lk/corporate/innovation

Maybe you should research claims a little bit before you make them? It took me 5 minutes to look all this up...

I never said they weren't innovative. I said they weren't very innovative as they did not invent something new. Obviously this is my opinion lol.

My point was innovation =/= success as so many including you appear to be claiming here.

Nice backtracking there buddy. Seems like I'm not the only one that "gives themselves enough wiggle room to back out of their statements."  

Sure, it's not the only reason for a company's success obviously. They could have a very innovative product, and be scammers at the same time, killing their chances of being successful. Being innovative certainly helps companies be successful though. To deny that is just you being dumb.

My point I will say again is innovation =/= success 100% of the time.

You really sound butthurt lol.

Please tell the smart money how dumb they are (or "not smart") even though you are not in a position to be a judge of that based on your past failures.  

Still backtracking. This is what you sound like:

dumbanddumber-soyouthinkthere'sachancememe.jpg

Don't flatter yourself, you are not smart money Smoothie. You were simply in the right place at the right time. With every statement you make you highlight the fact that you are not smart money.

Lol this is coming from the guy who hasn't had success in his crypto investments.

Look at my track record:

1. I bought litecoin at half a penny when pretty much most of you weren't not around. For me to take on that risk and be right in my call...I would say I'm smart money.

2. I sold a 1 oz silver eagle for 3600 LTC in 2012.

3. I bought a pizza with LTC to prove a concept that you can buy things with it. That was a 3500 LTC pizza.

4. I sold one of my 6990 radeon cards for 25,000 litecoins. This was when so many doubters were saying LTC is stupid and worthless and will "die".

5. I made a 10,000 LTC "futures" contract with user 420 in January 2013 when LTC was $0.07 each to end on Jan 1st 2014. The deal was that I would be able to buy 10,000 LTC for $700 on Jan 1st 2014. Based on your modified agreement I "cashed in" in April of 2013 and bought 10,000 LTC for $1,400.

Not to mention how many price movement bets I have won on this forum. Do your research buddy before saying I'm dumb money.

Luck doesn't play a factor that often. At some point in one's calls you need to admit that they in fact have what it takes to be called smart money.

Sounds like you are in denial.

Litecoin does not care about its price. The protocol is sound.

[Brilliantrocket]

Lol this is coming from the guy who hasn't had success in his crypto investments.

Look at my track record:

1. I bought litecoin at half a penny when pretty much most of you weren't not around. For me to take on that risk and be right in my call...I would say I'm smart money.

2. I sold a 1 oz silver eagle for 3600 LTC in 2012.

3. I bought a pizza with LTC to prove a concept that you can buy things with it. That was a 3500 LTC pizza.

4. I sold one of my 6990 radeon cards for 25,000 litecoins. This was when so many doubters were saying LTC is stupid and worthless and will "die".

5. I made a 10,000 LTC "futures" contract with user 420 in January 2013 when LTC was $0.07 each to end on Jan 1st 2014. The deal was that I would be able to buy 10,000 LTC for $700 on Jan 1st 2014. Based on your modified agreement I "cashed in" in April of 2013 and bought 10,000 LTC for $1,400.

Not to mention how many price movement bets I have won on this forum. Do your research buddy before saying I'm dumb money.

Luck doesn't play a factor that often. At some point in one's calls you need to admit that they in fact have what it takes to be called smart money.

Sounds like you are in denial.

Litecoin does not care about its price. The protocol is sound.

For your sake, I hope you sold most of those coins back when Litecoin was still a thing. Or converted them to Bitcoin.

[rikkejohn]

let's get back to the discussion 

So I think LTC is gonna stick around for a while until a huge company like google or apple decides to being in their own cryptocurrency. LTC is great since it has a lot of volume, but that only lasts so long imo 

Well spotted, the crypto to take off will be marketed to the people by a corporate giant.

Until then, and given that LTC and BTC are entrenched in crypto-culture, with absurdly high difficulty levels, which increase every 2000 or so blocks, there is no reason to assume LTC is finished. It is following the same pattern as ever, currently down on its luck, soon to be pumped when the Whales have picked enough up.

One thing is certain, BTC cannot survive beyond the fringe unless the BTC Foundation (or similar) is able to manoeuvre its greedy hands around it, wrap it up, speed it up, claim it is theirs, win intellectual property rights, and sell it to the highest bidder who will immediately regulate all use of it.

[s1gs3gv]

At some point in one's calls you need to admit that they in fact have what it takes to be called smart money.

So where does the smart money say LTC will be at the end of 2014 ?

[smoothie]

Lol this is coming from the guy who hasn't had success in his crypto investments.

Look at my track record:

1. I bought litecoin at half a penny when pretty much most of you weren't not around. For me to take on that risk and be right in my call...I would say I'm smart money.

2. I sold a 1 oz silver eagle for 3600 LTC in 2012.

3. I bought a pizza with LTC to prove a concept that you can buy things with it. That was a 3500 LTC pizza.

4. I sold one of my 6990 radeon cards for 25,000 litecoins. This was when so many doubters were saying LTC is stupid and worthless and will "die".

5. I made a 10,000 LTC "futures" contract with user 420 in January 2013 when LTC was $0.07 each to end on Jan 1st 2014. The deal was that I would be able to buy 10,000 LTC for $700 on Jan 1st 2014. Based on your modified agreement I "cashed in" in April of 2013 and bought 10,000 LTC for $1,400.

Not to mention how many price movement bets I have won on this forum. Do your research buddy before saying I'm dumb money.

Luck doesn't play a factor that often. At some point in one's calls you need to admit that they in fact have what it takes to be called smart money.

Sounds like you are in denial.

Litecoin does not care about its price. The protocol is sound.

For your sake, I hope you sold most of those coins back when Litecoin was still a thing. Or converted them to Bitcoin.

You can take a guess what I did. 

[smoothie]

At some point in one's calls you need to admit that they in fact have what it takes to be called smart money.

So where does the smart money say LTC will be at the end of 2014 ?

Such a vague question...but to address it in terms of the OP of this thread...

LTC will still be alive. People will still mine it, buy it, talk about it, and use it to transact with.

[s1gs3gv]

At some point in one's calls you need to admit that they in fact have what it takes to be called smart money.

So where does the smart money say LTC will be at the end of 2014 ?

Such a vague question...but to address it in terms of the OP of this thread...

LTC will still be alive. People will still mine it, buy it, talk about it, and use it to transact with.

What is your prediction for the value of one litecoin in USD on 1-1-2015 ?

[smoothie]

At some point in one's calls you need to admit that they in fact have what it takes to be called smart money.

So where does the smart money say LTC will be at the end of 2014 ?

Such a vague question...but to address it in terms of the OP of this thread...

LTC will still be alive. People will still mine it, buy it, talk about it, and use it to transact with.

What is your prediction for the value of one litecoin in USD on 1-1-2015 ?

Higher than it's previous all time high price.

[s1gs3gv]

At some point in one's calls you need to admit that they in fact have what it takes to be called smart money.

So where does the smart money say LTC will be at the end of 2014 ?

Such a vague question...but to address it in terms of the OP of this thread...

LTC will still be alive. People will still mine it, buy it, talk about it, and use it to transact with.

What is your prediction for the value of one litecoin in USD on 1-1-2015 ?

Higher than it's previous all time high price.

R E S E R V E D

[smoothie]

At some point in one's calls you need to admit that they in fact have what it takes to be called smart money.

So where does the smart money say LTC will be at the end of 2014 ?

Such a vague question...but to address it in terms of the OP of this thread...

LTC will still be alive. People will still mine it, buy it, talk about it, and use it to transact with.

What is your prediction for the value of one litecoin in USD on 1-1-2015 ?

Higher than it's previous all time high price.

R E S E R V E D

Please yes quote me. 

[Aricoin_Mike]

At some point in one's calls you need to admit that they in fact have what it takes to be called smart money.

So where does the smart money say LTC will be at the end of 2014 ?

Such a vague question...but to address it in terms of the OP of this thread...

LTC will still be alive. People will still mine it, buy it, talk about it, and use it to transact with.

What is your prediction for the value of one litecoin in USD on 1-1-2015 ?

Higher than it's previous all time high price.

I also share this opinion.

[bcmine]

Dakota and Devphp are obvious paid NXT sockpupet who think shitty ipo nxt will overtake nxt won't happen no matter how hard they try.

NXT is the future of crypto. 1000000x better than Litecoin could ever dream of being.

Comparing NXT to Litecoin is like comparing Superman to a squirrel.

Ya keep being a sockpupet everyone knows NXT and ipo coins are garbage.

IPO's are the future of coin distribution..

Comparing Ethereum to NXT is more likly comparing Superman to a squirrel. You cant compare nxt to litecoin, as nxt seems to be a transactionsystem with features for business back office like asset exchange, coloured coins etc. Litecoin is for the masses.

I don't buy that statement. No one has to use all of those features of Nxt if they don't want to.

Litecoin is a product of 2011 and kept very good over the years and will survive the ASIC turnaround.

The "Too Big To Fail" mantra is parasitic.

Unfortunately Litecoin is worth something about 3 Dollars (old and new paradigm). Everything more is a bonus on that coin you can cash out or wait to cash more out.

Sure, everything more is bonus if you bought in under $3.

New mantra for litecoin: Cant kill a POW cryptocurrency with wide spread asics hardware as you can implement it efficient in any device connected to the internet.

[MiningBattalion]

Any litecoin updates?

[MiningBattalion]

I have 3k of LTC I wish I had sold them at 30usd each.... Notw  they are only worth like 4k 

You live and learn I suppose.

[devphp]

I have 3k of LTC I wish I had sold them at 30usd each.... Notw  they are only worth like 4k 

You live and learn I suppose.

Exchange to Doge and you'll make up for your losses within a few months.

[ChekaZ]

I have 3k of LTC I wish I had sold them at 30usd each.... Notw  they are only worth like 4k 

You live and learn I suppose.

Exchange to Doge and you'll make up for your losses within a few months.

Dont do that haha. Doge will die as its now more useless than before.

[kelsey]

I have 3k of LTC I wish I had sold them at 30usd each.... Notw  they are only worth like 4k 

You live and learn I suppose.

Well I'll take those 3k ltc off ya hands for 4k USD...hell I'd throw in a bonus 1k USD.....

[MiningBattalion]

Well I would probably deal at 8k

[arieq]

I believe that in 3 years there will be far more transactions in litecoins than in bitcoins. bitcoin price will still be much much much higher than litecoin

[BitcoiNaked]

At some point in one's calls you need to admit that they in fact have what it takes to be called smart money.

So where does the smart money say LTC will be at the end of 2014 ?

Such a vague question...but to address it in terms of the OP of this thread...

LTC will still be alive. People will still mine it, buy it, talk about it, and use it to transact with.

What is your prediction for the value of one litecoin in USD on 1-1-2015 ?

Higher than it's previous all time high price.

lol at this

besides trading litecoin has no purpose at all bitcoin already covers everything. Litecoin will not survive in 2015 because real innovations are being build on top of the bitcoin blockchain making bitcoin even better. If you think litecoin will skyrocket like previous bitcoin boom you're wrong.

[HCLivess]

can we get a dead cat bounce?

[Oldminer]

I know there are a lot of threads for this already, but I wanted to start a new one as I felt the past ones did not give thorough reasons, and were somewhat trollish in nature. I have been a hardcore Litecoin supporter for the past couple years, and I do not think it is going away anytime soon. I am trying to think more long term than that, and Litecoin seems poised to die a slow death if it continues down the same path. The onslaught of copy and paste coins, followed by the onslaught of innovative coins, has changed the way I think about Litecoin. I can no longer recommend it as a good investment at this point in time. I have lobbied for Litecoin harder than even Bitcoin, and my decision to no longer support Litecoin was not an easy one. This post will be brushed aside as FUD or as me being a “hater”, but I hope you read what I have to say and think about the points I bring up, I assure you I have thought long and hard about them.

I feel like the argument that “Litecoin has the best development team” is quite disrespectful to the many other talented and devoted developers of other alt coins. You might as well call them all idiots. In fact, there are many developers that are going above and beyond what the Litecoin developers are doing. Litecoin has decided that it is content to simply follow in the steps of Bitcoin, something I tried hard to lobby against. Litecoin is merely developing things that Bitcoin has already made, such as Electrum and Android wallets. I will give them (well… Warren) a bit of credit for improving some security issues on both Litecoin and Bitcoin, but they do not see the glaring issue in that the end users don’t actually ever see these improvements. Nor do they particularly care… what I mean by that is… Have any of you ever had a problem because of a security issue in the Litecoin/Bitcoin client? I would be surprised to hear one person tell me yes they have, as after using it for years I haven’t and most cases that pop up seem to be user error.

Crypto currency users/investors want new and improved features, this is something they can actually see and use, and that adds value to the currency in their mind. I think merely following in Bitcoin’s footsteps is possibly a path to becoming obsolete. We already have Bitcoin, we don’t need another currency that is almost exactly like it except for a few changed parameters. By staying three steps behind Bitcoin in the crypto currency wars, they are positioning themselves to be obsolete if Bitcoin is ever supplanted by a new crypto currency that is much better. I made a hard push to get Litecoiners behind the idea of implementing new decentralized features, such as asset exchanges and decentralized applications, and I was completely ignored by the developers and dismissed by most of the Litecoin faithful. This is how the “best development team” operates? Completely ignoring their user base and someone that has gone out of his way to support Litecoin time and time again? You would think there is no value in the ideas of creating Dcorps/Dapps the way I was dismissed, but as you can see with the money flowing in on projects like BitsharesAGS/Swarm/Etcetera, a large portion of the crypto currency community agrees with me.

This is not the only case where the developers have done as they pleased, many voiced concerns about ASICs coming online and ruining the decentralized nature of the network, making people pay for hardware that will never ROI and sadly has little to no resale value, and suscept the Litecoin mining community to pre-ordering hardware they may never even see (or at least they likely will never see on time before the difficulty skyrockets like what happened with Bitcoin.) After a year and a half of investing in ASIC mining technology, running group buys, and hosting hardware, I can honestly say it is a fool’s game. The original batch 1 Avalons broke even and made a hefty profit, and almost every ASIC offering since then has fallen short of simply allowing their customers to break even. I will no longer support ASIC mining or the companies that make them, and when that sentiment is shared by a large group of people (I know I’m not alone,) it can be a very dangerous thing and lead to centralization of the network. I am worried for both Bitcoin and Litecoin in those regards… when a crypto currency becomes centralized, what is the point really? Satoshi would not approve.

Litecoin’s trade volume and market cap dwarf those of other alternative crypo currencies. Although this is true, I feel like this is very dangerous reasoning for determining the future of a cryptocoin and should not be a large factor of your decision. Have you ever heard of the banks that are “too big to fail”? This is the kind of reasoning this reminds me of. Does anyone remember when Facebook came out of nowhere and made Myspace obsolete? Blockbuster got killed by Netflix and Redbox. Dell, once a leader in the IT sector has fallen behind its competitors. Kodak’s stock price is about 96% lower than it was in 1997 due to the advent of personal printers, improvements in software, and file sharing. Microsoft was at the forefront of technology at one point, and now they are playing catch up when it comes to search engines, internet video, ebooks, smartphones, and tablet PCs. Motorola was huge when mobile telephones first came out, yet they failed to focus on smartphones with new features and rapidly lost market share to companies like Apple, LG, and Samsung. Sears got huge by sending out catalogs and allowing customers to order things from home, but failed to capitalize when ecommerce became much more popular to consumers. A Sony Walkman used to be today’s iPod. Yahoo… Toys R Us… need I say more?

Due to rapid technological advancements and the competition being innovative and forward thinking (seeing a pattern here?), companies can become obsolete very fast and I see no reason why this does not (or could not) hold true with crypto currencies. The network effect is very powerful, however I feel like the network effect is exponentially more powerful for Bitcoin than it is for Litecoin. It is Bitcoin that is in the news all day every day, not Litecoin. Although Litecoin does get more attention than most other alternative crypto currencies, I feel this is because they are the guys to beat right now. As you can see in the last paragraph, this could change quickly and this is not a good argument for Litecoin holding its number two spot.

Although Litecoin may be accepted by more exchanges and merchants than other alternative crypto currencies, the more innovative and valuable ones are sure to follow. Multi coin payment processing is going to become more popular as more coins come out. Having a different payment processor for every crypto currency is just not a smart way of doing things, and the ones that only accept one or two crypto currencies will be less popular with merchants over time. If someone wants to buy something from me with Sex Coin, I am going to want their business as I can simply exchange the Sex Coin for whatever coin I would like. If the consumers have more options to pay, the more likely they are to purchase something. I am sure that I sold a few extra physical Litecoins because I used coinpayments.net which accepts something like 30+ crypto coins. I had it setup to automatically exchange the coins that I didn’t want. It was stupidly easy and got me a little extra business. What merchant wouldn’t want this? They will choose the payment processor that supports the most coins, and the most stubborn payment processors will be slowly phased out. Exchanges make money by people trading crypto currencies (duh, right?). There is no reason they will not keep adding coins to trade alongside other coins to increase their profit. By not adding new coins, whether it’s a scam coin or not, they are leaving money off the table and it makes no sense.

The Litecoin is silver to Bitcoin’s goal is simply a marketing slogan, nothing more nothing less. You could just as easily say Xcoin is silver to Bitcoin’s gold, and it wouldn’t be an incorrect statement. This thinking is similar to the “Litecoin is too big to fail” dogma, as we’ve seen with many of the technology giants that have been surpassed by innovative and forward thinking competition, this could change very quickly. I don’t look at Litecoin having ATMs as being a huge deal, as most people are looking to install Bitcoin ATMs. For Litecoin to compete with Bitcoin in the ATM space, they need to hope that Bitcoin ATMs are made to support Litecoin. If Bitcoin ATMs can be made to support Litecoin (and duh they can), then there is nothing stopping them from supporting other crypto currencies.

Yes Litecoin’s network speed dwarfs that of other Scrypt coins, and it is likely much more secure than those. However, I think it is silly to focus on only Scrypt coins. There are other innovative and valuable alternative crypto currencies that are not Scrypt-based. Some of the newer & most popular ones you can’t even mine them at all (like PoS coins). Making that a reason to be better than another ALT coin that does not have mining is like Mike Tyson fighting a baby. You can’t mine those coins, so how is Litecoin being the most secure Scrypt coin a good selling point? Maybe it is a good selling point versus all other Scrypt coins, however most of those are crap and everyone knows it.

Litecoin is not a back up to Bitcoin. If a huge flaw is found in Bitcoin and someone attacks it, Litecoin is likely to share that flaw. I always thought Litecoin would be a good backup if Bitcoin somehow was flawed because of it using a different algorithm. After learning more about this, I do not feel that is the case anymore. The encryption algorithm is the least likely place that a huge vulnerability will found. Cryptography is studied in academia much more so than Bitcoin’s source code, and the best and brightest are studying it... cryptography is no walk in the park. Short of quantum computing, which is unfeasible in the next 30 to 40 years, the encryption algorithm will not be the weak link. Furthermore, since Litecoin feels so apt to follow in Bitcoin’s steps, a huge percentage of the code base is shared by the two. If one goes down, the other is likely to follow. You may say… well if Bitcoin dies then all crypto currencies are doomed, but I am not so sure that is the case. Where other companies have failed, others have gone on to innovate and change the industry forever, even becoming bigger and better than their predecessors. Crypto currencies will certainly take a hit if Bitcoin dies, however it will not be the end of this movement I am certain of that.

As to the Litecoin Association being a good reason to support Litecoin… are you kidding me? Have you seen all the drama and mess the Bitcoin Foundation has had going on... I’m sure everyone has. I would venture to say that at this point the Bitcoin Foundation is hurting Bitcoin more than it is supporting it. When people form centralized foundations for decentralized technologies, it goes against the original spirit of decentralization and crypto currencies for which Satoshi set precedent for. As to Litecoin having a better community than any other alternative crypto currency, I beg to differ. I never felt welcomed, and was often chastized for my opinions. Although Coblee was very nice when I met him at the Bitcoin 2013 conference, he literally ignored me after that. Even when I was pleading to the developers to comment on adding new features to Litecoin. Honestly, before Litecoin jumped up in price in November/December 2012, Coblee was nowhere to be seen in the Litecoin community. Once the price started to rise he suddenly showed up and started making an effort. I have no problem with that, but I couldn’t help but notice the coincidence. Anytime I tried to bring up controversial opinions or suggestions I was met with opposition mostly from early adopters. Furthermore, I feel like the Litecoin community is a big “click” and the really early adopters are much more likely to support each other on controversial matters than new users, and this is alarming considering Coblee is in this group.

Faster block times are no longer a good selling point, as there are other coins with faster block times that don’t have a huge problem with stales etcetera. Anywhere in between a minute and two and a half minute block time does not suffer from the things that Litecoin says will happen if they go any faster, at least not to the point where it is a huge problem. Everyone knows by now that Litecoin confirmations are less secure than Bitcoin confirmations. Furthermore, many Bitcoin payment processors process payments without any or as little as 1 confirmation, making some Bitcoin payments instant. I don’t see this as good as a feature I had originally thought, as many coins have come out that were faster and didn’t completely fail. Along this same line of thinking, the statement that Litecoin had a fair release… how is that even a feature? That is just default common sense for any developer developing a crypto currency if they want it to succeed. Not having a fair release is a sure way to death, as was learned with the alternative crypto currencies that came before Litecoin. Since Litecoin was released, I feel like there were numerous even more fair releases than Litecoin. So again, this argument lost its appeal to me.

For those of you that think this may be FUD, I can tell you I currently do not have a balance above zero in any crypto currencies, and this is my non biased opinion of Litecoin and why I have stopped supporting it. Again, I must stress it was a hard decision as I have been supporting it for so long, and even got some of my friends and family invested. I am starting to regret that now, I am going to have to point them to this paper as I would feel horrible if they are left holding the bag. I can only really suggest Bitcoin at this point, anything else is really risky and it’s too early to tell who will rise to the top. I suggest putting a small percentage of your coins into projects you find interesting or innovative. It is going to take something truly innovative to supplant Bitcoin, and by coincidence Litecoin as well since they are content blindly following Bitcoin. I have a feeling this day will come sooner than we all think.

Hm, it is getting boring to me to hear the Litecoin faithful repeat the same mantras over and over, which I have refuted in detail, but none of them seem to be able to come up with a good retort. So, I will summarize here for those that may not have been following the thread. I may repeat some things I've already said, but that's just because no one has come up with a good answer for them yet. There are more half truths that they are spreading, but these seem to be the most common.

Myth #1: Trolls have called Litecoin dead before, but it hasn't happened yet, so that means it is not happening right now.

Logic Re: Myth #1: Most of the "Litecoin is dead" threads they refer to to make this point were from one to two years ago. I do agree that Litecoin was an easy choice back then to be the #2 crypto and was unlikely to die for obvious reasons. I myself defended back then. However, the dynamics of the free market have changed greatly since then. There wasn't really a good alternative to Litecoin or Bitcoin back then. Since then there have been numerous cryptos that have quicker block times, more features, more innovative proof of work protocol or alternatives, just as big of communities, and more developers. In an industry that moves as fast as cryptos are moving, you can't hold onto tired old mantras such as this when the dynamics have changed vastly. Due to rapid technological advancements, and the competition being innovative and forward thinking, companies can become obsolete very fast and I see no reason why this does not hold true with crypto currencies. When it comes to Myth #1, Litecoiners are living in the past. By the way, Smoothie hasn't figured this out yet and I guess there are probably others too, so I will explain it. The title of this thread is poking fun at the other "Litecoin is dead" threads and is a satirical hook. I thought it was a pretty catchy title myself, but maybe that's just me.

Myth #2: The Network Effect... cause just because.... The Network Effect.

Logic Re: Myth #2: I have already covered the network effect extensively in this thread and no one from the Litecoin camp seems to be able to come up with a good retort. The network effect is very powerful, however the network effect is exponentially more powerful for Bitcoin than it is for Litecoin. It is Bitcoin that is in the news all day every day, not Litecoin. Litecoin does get more attention than most other alternative crypto currencies, as they should because they are the guys to beat right now. This could change quickly, and if you read my examples of innovative companies completely killing less innovative companies, you will understand what I mean. I agree Litecoin has it's own network effect, however it is not nearly as strong as Bitcoin's network effect. Search Bitcoin in Google news and tell me how many articles pop up, then do the same for Litecoin, there will be many less articles about Litecoin. Litecoin has a small network effect that is somewhat limited within people engaged in the crypto currency community, however Bitcoin's network effect stretches much wider than that. Since Litecoin's network effect is limited somewhat to people engaged in the community, they are more likely to look at Litecoin for what it is.. Bitcoin with a few changed parameters. When it comes to Myth #2, Litecoiners are in denial.

Myth #3: Innovation does not translate into acceptance or success.

Logic Re: Myth #3: Sure, innovation doesn't equal acceptance or success on its own merits, however it certainly helps. The more innovative coins that have been released in the past year are sitting on top end of the crypto market cap list, and the cryptos that didn't are sitting at the bottom. According to Litecoiners this is purely coincidence... Furthermore, acceptance and therefore success will come for the most innovative cryptos as it is easier to determine who the leader of the pack is. Right now it is a hard decision as to what cryptocoin 2.0 protocol has the best chance for success, so payment processors and exchanges are hesitant to add them to their services (although the most forward thinking ones have already done so.) Over time this will work itself out. In the Field Of Dreams the saying goes, "if you build it they will come". I like this line of thinking when it comes to cryptos. Although they might not be widely adopted right when they come out, I believe that eventually (if there is added substance and value on top of Bitcoin/Litecoin) it is only a matter of time before the crypto community comes. (wow.. that totally didn't sound right..   ).

Myth #4: Litecoin is accepted at more merchants than other alternative currencies (as to a reason for it still being a good long term investment).

Logic Re: Myth #4: Sometimes cryptos (Litecoin or Bitcoin) are being used to transfer money and make purchases, however most users are still using them as a speculative vehicle to make money. If you really think that Litecoin is being used everywhere for ecommerce, then I have a bridge to sell you. When I had a physical crypto business I offered two ways to pay, through Paypal and through Coinpayments.net. I would venture to guesstimate that 95% of the orders were made using Paypal. The answer as to why is obvious, since cryptos have been going up in value so much over the past couple years, no one wants to spend their cryptos and would much rather use FIAT. This was only about 6 months ago, and I can guarantee you it has not changed much since then. Furthermore, the popularity of multi-coin payment processors are going to accelerate the adoption of newer innovative cryptos. As merchants demand more payment options for the convenience of their customers to receive more business, payment processors will adopt the most popular and valuable cryptos (which I am speculating will be the most innovative ones).

Your right on the money (so to speak) 

[unent]

can we get a dead cat bounce?

It's gone up 0.14 % today. Is that enough to count as a dead cat bounce?

[LiteCoinGuy]

dead and the second biggest crypto out there  ? are you kidding me?

there will always be silver LTC and gold BTC

[HCLivess]

can we get a dead cat bounce?

It's gone up 0.14 % today. Is that enough to count as a dead cat bounce?

no... 800% please

[BitcoinBoost]

I know there are a lot of threads for this already, but I wanted to start a new one as I felt the past ones did not give thorough reasons, and were somewhat trollish in nature. I have been a hardcore Litecoin supporter for the past couple years, and I do not think it is going away anytime soon. I am trying to think more long term than that, and Litecoin seems poised to die a slow death if it continues down the same path. The onslaught of copy and paste coins, followed by the onslaught of innovative coins, has changed the way I think about Litecoin. I can no longer recommend it as a good investment at this point in time. I have lobbied for Litecoin harder than even Bitcoin, and my decision to no longer support Litecoin was not an easy one. This post will be brushed aside as FUD or as me being a “hater”, but I hope you read what I have to say and think about the points I bring up, I assure you I have thought long and hard about them.

I feel like the argument that “Litecoin has the best development team” is quite disrespectful to the many other talented and devoted developers of other alt coins. You might as well call them all idiots. In fact, there are many developers that are going above and beyond what the Litecoin developers are doing. Litecoin has decided that it is content to simply follow in the steps of Bitcoin, something I tried hard to lobby against. Litecoin is merely developing things that Bitcoin has already made, such as Electrum and Android wallets. I will give them (well… Warren) a bit of credit for improving some security issues on both Litecoin and Bitcoin, but they do not see the glaring issue in that the end users don’t actually ever see these improvements. Nor do they particularly care… what I mean by that is… Have any of you ever had a problem because of a security issue in the Litecoin/Bitcoin client? I would be surprised to hear one person tell me yes they have, as after using it for years I haven’t and most cases that pop up seem to be user error.

Crypto currency users/investors want new and improved features, this is something they can actually see and use, and that adds value to the currency in their mind. I think merely following in Bitcoin’s footsteps is possibly a path to becoming obsolete. We already have Bitcoin, we don’t need another currency that is almost exactly like it except for a few changed parameters. By staying three steps behind Bitcoin in the crypto currency wars, they are positioning themselves to be obsolete if Bitcoin is ever supplanted by a new crypto currency that is much better. I made a hard push to get Litecoiners behind the idea of implementing new decentralized features, such as asset exchanges and decentralized applications, and I was completely ignored by the developers and dismissed by most of the Litecoin faithful. This is how the “best development team” operates? Completely ignoring their user base and someone that has gone out of his way to support Litecoin time and time again? You would think there is no value in the ideas of creating Dcorps/Dapps the way I was dismissed, but as you can see with the money flowing in on projects like BitsharesAGS/Swarm/Etcetera, a large portion of the crypto currency community agrees with me.

This is not the only case where the developers have done as they pleased, many voiced concerns about ASICs coming online and ruining the decentralized nature of the network, making people pay for hardware that will never ROI and sadly has little to no resale value, and suscept the Litecoin mining community to pre-ordering hardware they may never even see (or at least they likely will never see on time before the difficulty skyrockets like what happened with Bitcoin.) After a year and a half of investing in ASIC mining technology, running group buys, and hosting hardware, I can honestly say it is a fool’s game. The original batch 1 Avalons broke even and made a hefty profit, and almost every ASIC offering since then has fallen short of simply allowing their customers to break even. I will no longer support ASIC mining or the companies that make them, and when that sentiment is shared by a large group of people (I know I’m not alone,) it can be a very dangerous thing and lead to centralization of the network. I am worried for both Bitcoin and Litecoin in those regards… when a crypto currency becomes centralized, what is the point really? Satoshi would not approve.

Litecoin’s trade volume and market cap dwarf those of other alternative crypo currencies. Although this is true, I feel like this is very dangerous reasoning for determining the future of a cryptocoin and should not be a large factor of your decision. Have you ever heard of the banks that are “too big to fail”? This is the kind of reasoning this reminds me of. Does anyone remember when Facebook came out of nowhere and made Myspace obsolete? Blockbuster got killed by Netflix and Redbox. Dell, once a leader in the IT sector has fallen behind its competitors. Kodak’s stock price is about 96% lower than it was in 1997 due to the advent of personal printers, improvements in software, and file sharing. Microsoft was at the forefront of technology at one point, and now they are playing catch up when it comes to search engines, internet video, ebooks, smartphones, and tablet PCs. Motorola was huge when mobile telephones first came out, yet they failed to focus on smartphones with new features and rapidly lost market share to companies like Apple, LG, and Samsung. Sears got huge by sending out catalogs and allowing customers to order things from home, but failed to capitalize when ecommerce became much more popular to consumers. A Sony Walkman used to be today’s iPod. Yahoo… Toys R Us… need I say more?

Due to rapid technological advancements and the competition being innovative and forward thinking (seeing a pattern here?), companies can become obsolete very fast and I see no reason why this does not (or could not) hold true with crypto currencies. The network effect is very powerful, however I feel like the network effect is exponentially more powerful for Bitcoin than it is for Litecoin. It is Bitcoin that is in the news all day every day, not Litecoin. Although Litecoin does get more attention than most other alternative crypto currencies, I feel this is because they are the guys to beat right now. As you can see in the last paragraph, this could change quickly and this is not a good argument for Litecoin holding its number two spot.

Although Litecoin may be accepted by more exchanges and merchants than other alternative crypto currencies, the more innovative and valuable ones are sure to follow. Multi coin payment processing is going to become more popular as more coins come out. Having a different payment processor for every crypto currency is just not a smart way of doing things, and the ones that only accept one or two crypto currencies will be less popular with merchants over time. If someone wants to buy something from me with Sex Coin, I am going to want their business as I can simply exchange the Sex Coin for whatever coin I would like. If the consumers have more options to pay, the more likely they are to purchase something. I am sure that I sold a few extra physical Litecoins because I used coinpayments.net which accepts something like 30+ crypto coins. I had it setup to automatically exchange the coins that I didn’t want. It was stupidly easy and got me a little extra business. What merchant wouldn’t want this? They will choose the payment processor that supports the most coins, and the most stubborn payment processors will be slowly phased out. Exchanges make money by people trading crypto currencies (duh, right?). There is no reason they will not keep adding coins to trade alongside other coins to increase their profit. By not adding new coins, whether it’s a scam coin or not, they are leaving money off the table and it makes no sense.

The Litecoin is silver to Bitcoin’s goal is simply a marketing slogan, nothing more nothing less. You could just as easily say Xcoin is silver to Bitcoin’s gold, and it wouldn’t be an incorrect statement. This thinking is similar to the “Litecoin is too big to fail” dogma, as we’ve seen with many of the technology giants that have been surpassed by innovative and forward thinking competition, this could change very quickly. I don’t look at Litecoin having ATMs as being a huge deal, as most people are looking to install Bitcoin ATMs. For Litecoin to compete with Bitcoin in the ATM space, they need to hope that Bitcoin ATMs are made to support Litecoin. If Bitcoin ATMs can be made to support Litecoin (and duh they can), then there is nothing stopping them from supporting other crypto currencies.

Yes Litecoin’s network speed dwarfs that of other Scrypt coins, and it is likely much more secure than those. However, I think it is silly to focus on only Scrypt coins. There are other innovative and valuable alternative crypto currencies that are not Scrypt-based. Some of the newer & most popular ones you can’t even mine them at all (like PoS coins). Making that a reason to be better than another ALT coin that does not have mining is like Mike Tyson fighting a baby. You can’t mine those coins, so how is Litecoin being the most secure Scrypt coin a good selling point? Maybe it is a good selling point versus all other Scrypt coins, however most of those are crap and everyone knows it.

Litecoin is not a back up to Bitcoin. If a huge flaw is found in Bitcoin and someone attacks it, Litecoin is likely to share that flaw. I always thought Litecoin would be a good backup if Bitcoin somehow was flawed because of it using a different algorithm. After learning more about this, I do not feel that is the case anymore. The encryption algorithm is the least likely place that a huge vulnerability will found. Cryptography is studied in academia much more so than Bitcoin’s source code, and the best and brightest are studying it... cryptography is no walk in the park. Short of quantum computing, which is unfeasible in the next 30 to 40 years, the encryption algorithm will not be the weak link. Furthermore, since Litecoin feels so apt to follow in Bitcoin’s steps, a huge percentage of the code base is shared by the two. If one goes down, the other is likely to follow. You may say… well if Bitcoin dies then all crypto currencies are doomed, but I am not so sure that is the case. Where other companies have failed, others have gone on to innovate and change the industry forever, even becoming bigger and better than their predecessors. Crypto currencies will certainly take a hit if Bitcoin dies, however it will not be the end of this movement I am certain of that.

As to the Litecoin Association being a good reason to support Litecoin… are you kidding me? Have you seen all the drama and mess the Bitcoin Foundation has had going on... I’m sure everyone has. I would venture to say that at this point the Bitcoin Foundation is hurting Bitcoin more than it is supporting it. When people form centralized foundations for decentralized technologies, it goes against the original spirit of decentralization and crypto currencies for which Satoshi set precedent for. As to Litecoin having a better community than any other alternative crypto currency, I beg to differ. I never felt welcomed, and was often chastized for my opinions. Although Coblee was very nice when I met him at the Bitcoin 2013 conference, he literally ignored me after that. Even when I was pleading to the developers to comment on adding new features to Litecoin. Honestly, before Litecoin jumped up in price in November/December 2012, Coblee was nowhere to be seen in the Litecoin community. Once the price started to rise he suddenly showed up and started making an effort. I have no problem with that, but I couldn’t help but notice the coincidence. Anytime I tried to bring up controversial opinions or suggestions I was met with opposition mostly from early adopters. Furthermore, I feel like the Litecoin community is a big “click” and the really early adopters are much more likely to support each other on controversial matters than new users, and this is alarming considering Coblee is in this group.

Faster block times are no longer a good selling point, as there are other coins with faster block times that don’t have a huge problem with stales etcetera. Anywhere in between a minute and two and a half minute block time does not suffer from the things that Litecoin says will happen if they go any faster, at least not to the point where it is a huge problem. Everyone knows by now that Litecoin confirmations are less secure than Bitcoin confirmations. Furthermore, many Bitcoin payment processors process payments without any or as little as 1 confirmation, making some Bitcoin payments instant. I don’t see this as good as a feature I had originally thought, as many coins have come out that were faster and didn’t completely fail. Along this same line of thinking, the statement that Litecoin had a fair release… how is that even a feature? That is just default common sense for any developer developing a crypto currency if they want it to succeed. Not having a fair release is a sure way to death, as was learned with the alternative crypto currencies that came before Litecoin. Since Litecoin was released, I feel like there were numerous even more fair releases than Litecoin. So again, this argument lost its appeal to me.

For those of you that think this may be FUD, I can tell you I currently do not have a balance above zero in any crypto currencies, and this is my non biased opinion of Litecoin and why I have stopped supporting it. Again, I must stress it was a hard decision as I have been supporting it for so long, and even got some of my friends and family invested. I am starting to regret that now, I am going to have to point them to this paper as I would feel horrible if they are left holding the bag. I can only really suggest Bitcoin at this point, anything else is really risky and it’s too early to tell who will rise to the top. I suggest putting a small percentage of your coins into projects you find interesting or innovative. It is going to take something truly innovative to supplant Bitcoin, and by coincidence Litecoin as well since they are content blindly following Bitcoin. I have a feeling this day will come sooner than we all think.

Hm, it is getting boring to me to hear the Litecoin faithful repeat the same mantras over and over, which I have refuted in detail, but none of them seem to be able to come up with a good retort. So, I will summarize here for those that may not have been following the thread. I may repeat some things I've already said, but that's just because no one has come up with a good answer for them yet. There are more half truths that they are spreading, but these seem to be the most common.

Myth #1: Trolls have called Litecoin dead before, but it hasn't happened yet, so that means it is not happening right now.

Logic Re: Myth #1: Most of the "Litecoin is dead" threads they refer to to make this point were from one to two years ago. I do agree that Litecoin was an easy choice back then to be the #2 crypto and was unlikely to die for obvious reasons. I myself defended back then. However, the dynamics of the free market have changed greatly since then. There wasn't really a good alternative to Litecoin or Bitcoin back then. Since then there have been numerous cryptos that have quicker block times, more features, more innovative proof of work protocol or alternatives, just as big of communities, and more developers. In an industry that moves as fast as cryptos are moving, you can't hold onto tired old mantras such as this when the dynamics have changed vastly. Due to rapid technological advancements, and the competition being innovative and forward thinking, companies can become obsolete very fast and I see no reason why this does not hold true with crypto currencies. When it comes to Myth #1, Litecoiners are living in the past. By the way, Smoothie hasn't figured this out yet and I guess there are probably others too, so I will explain it. The title of this thread is poking fun at the other "Litecoin is dead" threads and is a satirical hook. I thought it was a pretty catchy title myself, but maybe that's just me.

Myth #2: The Network Effect... cause just because.... The Network Effect.

Logic Re: Myth #2: I have already covered the network effect extensively in this thread and no one from the Litecoin camp seems to be able to come up with a good retort. The network effect is very powerful, however the network effect is exponentially more powerful for Bitcoin than it is for Litecoin. It is Bitcoin that is in the news all day every day, not Litecoin. Litecoin does get more attention than most other alternative crypto currencies, as they should because they are the guys to beat right now. This could change quickly, and if you read my examples of innovative companies completely killing less innovative companies, you will understand what I mean. I agree Litecoin has it's own network effect, however it is not nearly as strong as Bitcoin's network effect. Search Bitcoin in Google news and tell me how many articles pop up, then do the same for Litecoin, there will be many less articles about Litecoin. Litecoin has a small network effect that is somewhat limited within people engaged in the crypto currency community, however Bitcoin's network effect stretches much wider than that. Since Litecoin's network effect is limited somewhat to people engaged in the community, they are more likely to look at Litecoin for what it is.. Bitcoin with a few changed parameters. When it comes to Myth #2, Litecoiners are in denial.

Myth #3: Innovation does not translate into acceptance or success.

Logic Re: Myth #3: Sure, innovation doesn't equal acceptance or success on its own merits, however it certainly helps. The more innovative coins that have been released in the past year are sitting on top end of the crypto market cap list, and the cryptos that didn't are sitting at the bottom. According to Litecoiners this is purely coincidence... Furthermore, acceptance and therefore success will come for the most innovative cryptos as it is easier to determine who the leader of the pack is. Right now it is a hard decision as to what cryptocoin 2.0 protocol has the best chance for success, so payment processors and exchanges are hesitant to add them to their services (although the most forward thinking ones have already done so.) Over time this will work itself out. In the Field Of Dreams the saying goes, "if you build it they will come". I like this line of thinking when it comes to cryptos. Although they might not be widely adopted right when they come out, I believe that eventually (if there is added substance and value on top of Bitcoin/Litecoin) it is only a matter of time before the crypto community comes. (wow.. that totally didn't sound right..   ).

Myth #4: Litecoin is accepted at more merchants than other alternative currencies (as to a reason for it still being a good long term investment).

Logic Re: Myth #4: Sometimes cryptos (Litecoin or Bitcoin) are being used to transfer money and make purchases, however most users are still using them as a speculative vehicle to make money. If you really think that Litecoin is being used everywhere for ecommerce, then I have a bridge to sell you. When I had a physical crypto business I offered two ways to pay, through Paypal and through Coinpayments.net. I would venture to guesstimate that 95% of the orders were made using Paypal. The answer as to why is obvious, since cryptos have been going up in value so much over the past couple years, no one wants to spend their cryptos and would much rather use FIAT. This was only about 6 months ago, and I can guarantee you it has not changed much since then. Furthermore, the popularity of multi-coin payment processors are going to accelerate the adoption of newer innovative cryptos. As merchants demand more payment options for the convenience of their customers to receive more business, payment processors will adopt the most popular and valuable cryptos (which I am speculating will be the most innovative ones).

Your right on the money (so to speak) 

Makes perfect sense. I would like to see Litecoin innovate, not make excuses when their market cap is eventually passed by other projects. You already have the name recognition, the challenge is admitting there is an issue. You don't need to be as innovative as Ethereum, BitShares or NXT to make a difference to your investors. Just show some forward progress, be humble and look for opportunities to improve.

[favelle75]

Can we stick a fork in this one yet? 

[thevictimofuktyranny]

It is true,

Litecoin has had one of worst years of Crpyto events ever seen, going from a $400 market cap to a $100 million cap.

It is easy to blame the developers' organisation, but essentially these are just guys who copied Bitcoin and accidentally tapped into a widespread grassroots discontentment the appearance of ASIC devices on the Bitcoin network.

I don't think the developers' organisation actually planned any of this success; it must have been a huge surprise to them that they were involved in an organisation worth nearly $400 million at the end of 2013?

Plenty people blow runaway successes, especially those who didn't expect to become successful. No humble person, in history, has used unexpected successes wisely or for the benefit of their followers (investors). It would have been a surprise, if it had turned out differently for Litecoin.

On the positive side, it is only 8 months 1 day to the next Block Halving, which will do a serious reduction in Litecoin volumes.  Volume produced each year will drop from 10512000 coins ($30.5 million dollar at current prices) 5256000 coins ($15.25 million). Clearly, this will really help Litecoin recover from its' terrible 2014.

In terms of Asic miners manufacturers R&D expenditures (customers improvements), the Scrypt alogorithm will see a much lower improvement rate then Bitcoin. The Bitcoin network issues $893 million worth of coins (1BTC=$340) each year. Miners usually pay 50% for equipment and another 25% in electricity (10cent a watt), giving a 25% ROI rate (1 year timeframe). Most miners do not sell their Bitcoins, which obviously from exchange volumes.

This has seen the following improvements in Asic outputs per watt:
0.9w per 1ghs 2013
0.7w per 1ghs 2014
0.51w per 1ghs 2015 Bitcoin S5

WHEN IMPROVEMENTS FROM ASICS STOP, BITCOIN PRICE WILL INCREASE WITH INFLATIONARY AND MONEY PRINTING CYCLES. At this point, it will be a fully functional store of value e.g. "a means of purchasing human manpower or the by-products of human manpower".

Of course, this reduces electricity bill, but in effect it equates in higher network hashrate. Plus the legendary December 2013 bubble has increase miners up the point that mining profits have declined to their long-run average and holding coins is much smarter then selling them.

The Litecoin scrypt algorithm yearly production is only  $30.5 million and only $15.25 million of this translate into potential sales for manufacturers. Assuming 20% profit margins on sales will equal $1.525 million. Assuming 10% goes into R&D for improvement in Asics miners, the entire research budget is only $150,000 currently.

At the begining of 2014 this R&D budget would have been $610,000, now it is 25% lower? These financial realities are reflected in manufacturer decisions: Zeus miner has abandoned further R&D on 3rd generation chip for the Scrypt alogorithm.

Therefore, in 2015/2016 Litecoin Asics miners will see smaller increases then the Bitcoin network in profitability e.g. KCN miner make have an extended lifespan.

These imprecise factors incline a prediction that Litecoin will recover 40% of it's pre Asic market position. With Fait currencies, money printing and long inflationary increases still demand an alternative for the smarter elements in the masses to their hedge their currency liabilities into when they cannot afford to buy and store Gold and Sliver.  There is Zero storage costs for Bitcoin, Litecoin, Feathercoin and Darkcoin.

This alone, makes it a more attractive place to store money then Gold and Sliver, when investments are under $10,000. It should be noted the storage costs, does imply Gold and Silver has an inflationary cost when it is stored in sub-$10,000 dollars quantities. But, this kind of calculation only works when the quantity of new coins entering the market is very low and adjusted proactively by the developers' organisation, like Darkcoin.

Of course, having a wallet, which freezes whilst updating the blockchain is definitely going to put of new buyers of Litecoin and Litecoin seems to have copied that habit from other crypto-currencies. I just leave my coins on exchanges now, which is not an option for big buyers of Litecoins.

[kingcrimson]

OP is under the impression that markets behave logically. Litecoin is more or less the same as bitcoin, and will probably be bound to it like coke and pepsi. ie... When bitcoin rises people will feel they missed out, and litecoin is what they will get into.
Follow the psychologies, not the logic.
That said, who knows what will happen.

[bigtimespaghetti]

OP is under the impression that markets behave logically. Litecoin is more or less the same as bitcoin, and will probably be bound to it like coke and pepsi. ie... When bitcoin rises people will feel they missed out, and litecoin is what they will get into.
Follow the psychologies, not the logic.
That said, who knows what will happen.

Think of the baghodling sell pressure though... I like the Pepsi to coke analogy though!

[favelle75]

MASSIVE new hashrate coming online. If it wasn't profitable to mine this coin before, it definitely won't be now!

[smoothie]

MASSIVE new hashrate coming online. If it wasn't profitable to mine this coin before, it definitely won't be now!

...only until the price goes high enough to make mining profitable again 

[TheMage]

MASSIVE new hashrate coming online. If it wasn't profitable to mine this coin before, it definitely won't be now!

So you see network security as a bad thing and are only in crypto's for the money and not for the cause that Satoshi and other stand for?

[barbierir]

Maybe it's a stupid idea and too early to consider, but if Ltc should continue to decline and it arrives to a point without hope of recovery, it could be possible to breath new life into it by migrating the whole coin over the Nxt's Monetary System. Please read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=896520.0

The coin could be "imported" over the MS, with the current balances of its users, this way:
1. A future block is agreed upon to serve as point of reference
2. A trusted member uses the MS to create a coin named Litecoin with a number of currency units equal to those existing at the time of the reference block
3. A website is setup where Litecoin users can register a token proving ownership of a Litecoin address and their Nxt address
4. Users receive a number of new Litecoin equal to those in their balance at the time of the reference block

Or this could be done setting up a burning address, and you receive an amount equal to those burned.

The advantages are mainly a way to revive a dying coin and the fact that if the hashrate drops the coin is still secured by Nxt network.

[swansong]

Maybe it's a stupid idea and too early to consider, but if Ltc should continue to decline and it arrives to a point without hope of recovery, it could be possible to breath new life into it by migrating the whole coin over the Nxt's Monetary System. Please read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=896520.0

The coin could be "imported" over the MS, with the current balances of its users, this way:
1. A future block is agreed upon to serve as point of reference
2. A trusted member uses the MS to create a coin named Litecoin with a number of currency units equal to those existing at the time of the reference block
3. A website is setup where Litecoin users can register a token proving ownership of a Litecoin address and their Nxt address
4. Users receive a number of new Litecoin equal to those in their balance at the time of the reference block

Or this could be done setting up a burning address, and you receive an amount equal to those burned.

The advantages are mainly a way to revive a dying coin and the fact that if the hashrate drops the coin is still secured by Nxt network.

a dying litecoin, yet it has 20x more daily volume than NXT. you are a genius 
btw i bought my first millions of nxt when it was <$0.001.

litecoin is not dying. but you would not understand because your brain is pretty much dead already.

[Willisius]

Maybe it's a stupid idea and too early to consider, but if Ltc should continue to decline and it arrives to a point without hope of recovery, it could be possible to breath new life into it by migrating the whole coin over the Nxt's Monetary System. Please read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=896520.0

The coin could be "imported" over the MS, with the current balances of its users, this way:
1. A future block is agreed upon to serve as point of reference
2. A trusted member uses the MS to create a coin named Litecoin with a number of currency units equal to those existing at the time of the reference block
3. A website is setup where Litecoin users can register a token proving ownership of a Litecoin address and their Nxt address
4. Users receive a number of new Litecoin equal to those in their balance at the time of the reference block

Or this could be done setting up a burning address, and you receive an amount equal to those burned.

The advantages are mainly a way to revive a dying coin and the fact that if the hashrate drops the coin is still secured by Nxt network.

a dying litecoin, yet it has 20x more daily volume than NXT. you are a genius 
btw i bought my first millions of nxt when it was <$0.001.

litecoin is not dying. but you would not understand because your brain is pretty much dead already.

I would say that LTC and NXT are probably dying. They both have no real value. LTC is secured by nothing different then what bitcoin is secured by now that scrypt ASICs have been created for scrypt. NXT uses PoS which essentially makes it free to attack the network which will leave any investor of NXT vulnerable 

[HeroCat]

Litecoin is in use, but it is not clear - Litecoin will be more and more popular or not ?  

[shanecoins]

not dying just low price

[swansong]

Maybe it's a stupid idea and too early to consider, but if Ltc should continue to decline and it arrives to a point without hope of recovery, it could be possible to breath new life into it by migrating the whole coin over the Nxt's Monetary System. Please read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=896520.0

The coin could be "imported" over the MS, with the current balances of its users, this way:
1. A future block is agreed upon to serve as point of reference
2. A trusted member uses the MS to create a coin named Litecoin with a number of currency units equal to those existing at the time of the reference block
3. A website is setup where Litecoin users can register a token proving ownership of a Litecoin address and their Nxt address
4. Users receive a number of new Litecoin equal to those in their balance at the time of the reference block

Or this could be done setting up a burning address, and you receive an amount equal to those burned.

The advantages are mainly a way to revive a dying coin and the fact that if the hashrate drops the coin is still secured by Nxt network.

a dying litecoin, yet it has 20x more daily volume than NXT. you are a genius 
btw i bought my first millions of nxt when it was <$0.001.

litecoin is not dying. but you would not understand because your brain is pretty much dead already.

I would say that LTC and NXT are probably dying. They both have no real value. LTC is secured by nothing different then what bitcoin is secured by now that scrypt ASICs have been created for scrypt. NXT uses PoS which essentially makes it free to attack the network which will leave any investor of NXT vulnerable 

ltc is secured by nothing? you mean all the massive hashrate coming from the sky? ohh ok.. and dogecoin did not start merge mining with litecoin... mmkay.

they both have no real value? same said to bitcoin.

[Agestorzrxx]

ALL i see is litecoin have no reason keep alive. It will die at last.

[kelsey]

ALL i see is litecoin have no reason keep alive. It will die at last.

there's plenty of reasons litcoin will survive.

 irl i am a daytrader as such you quickly learn in order to be successful you must have no emotional attachment to anything in ur portfolio.

in the alt community too many get suckered into the latest crapcoin, then never let go (too emotionally attached to see reality) tis why they spread fud on the most successful alt.

fud all you like, I stick with litecoin because its the alt with the most backing, the most heavily traded and stood the test of time, so many crapcoins around now if any where any good they'd be lost in the mess anyway.

the more alts created the more litecoin will succeed.

[FandangledGizmo]

Litecoin is dying, that's a sad graph.

I'm a long-term BitShares supporter, my hope is BTS will pass LTC with the release of 1.0 in the next 8 weeks.
Then as I don't consider Ripple a decentralised option that should put BitShares as next in line to Bitcoin assuming PayCoin is a flash in the pan.

That will leave POW very lonely in the top 10, that plus Bitcoin's general decline will make everyone suddenly realise Bitcoin is dead for these reasons https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=907981.0 and then hopefully BitShares should pass Bitcoin within the year but maybe much faster than that if the penny drops. That's my hope as a BitShares fan anyway.

[BitcoiNaked]

Litecoin is dying, that's a sad graph.

I'm a long-term BitShares supporter, my hope is BTS will pass LTC with the release of 1.0 in the next 8 weeks.
Then as I don't consider Ripple a decentralised option that should put BitShares as next in line to Bitcoin assuming PayCoin is a flash in the pan.

That will leave POW very lonely in the top 10, that plus Bitcoin's general decline will make everyone suddenly realise Bitcoin is dead for these reasons https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=907981.0 and then hopefully BitShares should pass Bitcoin within the year but maybe much faster than that if the penny drops. That's my hope as a BitShares fan anyway.

wtf is bitshares? o another complicated crap coin nobody is going to use outside the crypto field, bitcoin is already hard enough to get. I say only Bitcoin and some projects/cryptos on top of it making bitcoin better. The rest is all shit, whether its litecoin, dogecoin, dark coin or bitshares

[FandangledGizmo]

Litecoin is dying, that's a sad graph.

I'm a long-term BitShares supporter, my hope is BTS will pass LTC with the release of 1.0 in the next 8 weeks.
Then as I don't consider Ripple a decentralised option that should put BitShares as next in line to Bitcoin assuming PayCoin is a flash in the pan.

That will leave POW very lonely in the top 10, that plus Bitcoin's general decline will make everyone suddenly realise Bitcoin is dead for these reasons https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=907981.0 and then hopefully BitShares should pass Bitcoin within the year but maybe much faster than that if the penny drops. That's my hope as a BitShares fan anyway.

wtf is bitshares? o another complicated crap coin nobody is going to use outside the crypto field, bitcoin is already hard enough to get. I say only Bitcoin and some projects/cryptos on top of it making bitcoin better. The rest is all shit, whether its litecoin, dogecoin, dark coin or bitshares

Download the BitShares wallet, after syncing, register an account, (any unused name you want, not some long number mainstream will never use), send yourself some BTS from an exchange which takes seconds and you're good to go.
Already you can buy BitBTC, BitGold, BitSilver or any major currency with the click of a mouse in seconds.
Now you have a decentralised asset backed by an average of 300% BTS collateral.
All done in minutes, no ID, currencies & commodities with 10 second global transactions.
BitShares uses TITAN so every transaction is to a new address, but all you see is the easy to use account name/names you created.

Anyway you'll hear more about it soon enough, 1.0 is round the corner.

You might find BitSharesblocks.com useful lots of live information

[blg425]

I think the rate just goes with the BTC crash, because they always seemed to climb and fall the same percentages. Only now BTC is at such a low and there are so many altcoins, people are still getting used to the idea of bitcoin let alone all the altcoins, which LTC has just become part of.

[cocales]

 Guys so predictable we all know the LTC will go up. If there is a coin that I can put my faith in is LTC.

[arieq]

Guys so predictable we all know the LTC will go up. If there is a coin that I can put my faith in is LTC.

Technically litecoin has lot of advantages but at the moment bitcoin has lot more mass and momentum

[a fool and his money ...]

Guys so predictable we all know the LTC will go up. If there is a coin that I can put my faith in is LTC.

Technically litecoin has lot of advantages but at the moment bitcoin has lot more mass and momentum

both of them are doing horrible.

Bitcoin inflation 10%
Litecoin inflation 30%

it's insanity to expect gains from coins with these errosions

[kelsey]

Guys so predictable we all know the LTC will go up. If there is a coin that I can put my faith in is LTC.

Technically litecoin has lot of advantages but at the moment bitcoin has lot more mass and momentum

both of them are doing horrible.

Bitcoin inflation 10%
Litecoin inflation 30%

it's insanity to expect gains from coins with these errosions

 


actually its insanity to believe that inflation is real. markets all about how the market prices something and I am pretty sure the market prices bitcoin around the perception there is 21 million of them (and in fact all up at the end of the day they'll even be a hell of alot less then that...well usable).

[a fool and his money ...]

how is it insaity to believe the inflation is real? I can see it on the blockexplorer. It's very real. This is what you call cold numbers or facts.

[FandangledGizmo]

Guys so predictable we all know the LTC will go up. If there is a coin that I can put my faith in is LTC.

Technically litecoin has lot of advantages but at the moment bitcoin has lot more mass and momentum

both of them are doing horrible.

Bitcoin inflation 10%
Litecoin inflation 30%

it's insanity to expect gains from coins with these errosions

That's crazy. That means Litecoin needs $80 000 in excess new demand per day just to offset the coins being sold by miners at the current CAP. No wonder it can't sustain itself.

$3 million of new demand a month is needed just to sustain its current price. Good luck getting that in a bear market.

[kelsey]

how is it insaity to believe the inflation is real? I can see it on the blockexplorer. It's very real. This is what you call cold numbers or facts.

yes its real    one of the few rare examples of a deflationary currencies on the planet and your calling it as inflationary 

as anyone who knows about bitcoin how many bitcoin are there? think you'll find the answer as 21 million, tis the figure the market values bitcoin around.

[kelsey]

Guys so predictable we all know the LTC will go up. If there is a coin that I can put my faith in is LTC.

Technically litecoin has lot of advantages but at the moment bitcoin has lot more mass and momentum

both of them are doing horrible.

Bitcoin inflation 10%
Litecoin inflation 30%

it's insanity to expect gains from coins with these errosions

That's crazy. That means Litecoin needs $80 000 in excess new demand per day just to offset the coins being sold by miners at the current CAP. No wonder it can't sustain itself.

$3 million of new demand a month is needed just to sustain its current price. Good luck getting that in a bear market.

lol

Supply demand has easily been meet in the past when new demands was considerably less then happening today. You do know demand (and knowledge of cryptos) has and is increasing over time, and you do know about block halvings and the like? Also you're assuming miners mine and dump daily at any price.

[FandangledGizmo]

Guys so predictable we all know the LTC will go up. If there is a coin that I can put my faith in is LTC.

Technically litecoin has lot of advantages but at the moment bitcoin has lot more mass and momentum

both of them are doing horrible.

Bitcoin inflation 10%
Litecoin inflation 30%

it's insanity to expect gains from coins with these errosions

That's crazy. That means Litecoin needs $80 000 in excess new demand per day just to offset the coins being sold by miners at the current CAP. No wonder it can't sustain itself.

$3 million of new demand a month is needed just to sustain its current price. Good luck getting that in a bear market.

lol

Supply demand has easily been meet in the past when new demands was considerably less then happening today. Also you're assuming miners mine and dump daily at any price.

Really? It looks like LiteCoin clearly hasn't been able to sustain its price for a year.

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/litecoin/#charts

During the 2014 bear market it's fallen 3X more than Bitcoin which makes sense as it has 3X more inflation...

(Based on the value of coins when mined, LiteCoin has paid miners >$80 million this year.)

[traderman]

It is too early to tell where Litecoin is headed, wait till the first block halving occurs. We are still in the very early stages in this whole crypto game. Bitcoin is paving the way right now, a few alts will follow suit and I am sure Litecoin will be one of them. A few others will also be adopted, I am not sure which ones however. At this point that is impossible to predict, too many unknowns.

[shanecoins]

It is too early to tell where Litecoin is headed, wait till the first block halving occurs. We are still in the very early stages in this whole crypto game. Bitcoin is paving the way right now, a few alts will follow suit and I am sure Litecoin will be one of them. A few others will also be adopted, I am not sure which ones however. At this point that is impossible to predict, too many unknowns.

you took the words right outer my mouth 

[dewdeded]

I think this posting by Coblee: “Litecoin Does Not Need Development Right Now” will go down in history final turning point and starting date of LTCs last phase of life, leading to complete project failure and price < 1Ct.  

Even now, well known hardcore Litecoiners for the first time don't believe Coblee anymore, they doubt the statement and think its wrong and questioned it in public.
(People that always until this point took als words from Coblee as "undoubtedly messages from god" and NEVER questioned a word he said before and always frenetic defended other controverse statements by Coblee before.)

[Mjbmonetarymetals]

I think this posting by Coblee: “Litecoin Does Not Need Development Right Now” will go down in history final turning point and starting date of LTCs last phase of life, leading to complete project failure and price < 1Ct.  

Even now, well known hardcore Litecoiners for the first time don't believe Coblee anymore, they doubt the statement and think its wrong and questioned it in public.
(People that always until this point took als words from Coblee as "undoubtedly messages from god" and NEVER questioned a word he said before and always frenetic defended other controverse statements by Coblee before.)

You seem to be cultivating a little god complex of your own 

[jertsy]

It is too early to tell where Litecoin is headed, wait till the first block halving occurs. We are still in the very early stages in this whole crypto game. Bitcoin is paving the way right now, a few alts will follow suit and I am sure Litecoin will be one of them. A few others will also be adopted, I am not sure which ones however. At this point that is impossible to predict, too many unknowns.

When is the the first block halving likely to happen?

[Pecunia non olet]

look at this green dildo from china:



and it even glows in the dark 

[shanecoins]

WAKE THE FUCK UP LITECOIN

[The Chainmaker]

Guys so predictable we all know the LTC will go up. If there is a coin that I can put my faith in is LTC.

Technically litecoin has lot of advantages but at the moment bitcoin has lot more mass and momentum

both of them are doing horrible.

Bitcoin inflation 10%
Litecoin inflation 30%

it's insanity to expect gains from coins with these errosions

That's crazy. That means Litecoin needs $80 000 in excess new demand per day just to offset the coins being sold by miners at the current CAP. No wonder it can't sustain itself.

$3 million of new demand a month is needed just to sustain its current price. Good luck getting that in a bear market.

Bitcoin is needs a million dollars a day!  It is a lot more inflationary if one considers the total effect because of marketcap.

[The Chainmaker]

how is it insaity to believe the inflation is real? I can see it on the blockexplorer. It's very real. This is what you call cold numbers or facts.

Bitcoin and all PoW are very inflationary at the start and dwindle into low inflation after most of their block rewards are halved.  Finally when a PoW coin goes full PoS, then it becomes deflationary.  

Really the only deflationary coins are the PoS ones that have fully released their entire coin supply to the public.  

[FreeJack2k2]

I think this posting by Coblee: “Litecoin Does Not Need Development Right Now” will go down in history final turning point and starting date of LTCs last phase of life, leading to complete project failure and price < 1Ct.  

Even now, well known hardcore Litecoiners for the first time don't believe Coblee anymore, they doubt the statement and think its wrong and questioned it in public.
(People that always until this point took als words from Coblee as "undoubtedly messages from god" and NEVER questioned a word he said before and always frenetic defended other controverse statements by Coblee before.)

Except that he's right. The protocol works as intended. It doesn't have any huge bugs that need squashing. What he's saying is that you shouldn't expect them to start adding any new bells and whistles to it, in an effort to create news for some kind of short-term pump. There's no reason to add anything that could potentially break it, for questionable gain.

He isn't suggesting that Litecoin doesn't need any third party development. He's just saying that the protocol itself is solid. Look at what Warren is working on, in terms of changes. There ARE things planned for it...changes to accommodate sidechains in the future and things of that nature, which will eventually require a hard fork. But with the protocol working well and not encountering major problems, there ISN'T an urgent need for major developments. It's short attention span theater in crypto, these days...I swear.

[thevictimofuktyranny]

I think this posting by Coblee: “Litecoin Does Not Need Development Right Now” will go down in history final turning point and starting date of LTCs last phase of life, leading to complete project failure and price < 1Ct.  

Even now, well known hardcore Litecoiners for the first time don't believe Coblee anymore, they doubt the statement and think its wrong and questioned it in public.
(People that always until this point took als words from Coblee as "undoubtedly messages from god" and NEVER questioned a word he said before and always frenetic defended other controverse statements by Coblee before.)

Except that he's right. The protocol works as intended. It doesn't have any huge bugs that need squashing. What he's saying is that you shouldn't expect them to start adding any new bells and whistles to it, in an effort to create news for some kind of short-term pump. There's no reason to add anything that could potentially break it, for questionable gain.

He isn't suggesting that Litecoin doesn't need any third party development. He's just saying that the protocol itself is solid. Look at what Warren is working on, in terms of changes. There ARE things planned for it...changes to accommodate sidechains in the future and things of that nature, which will eventually require a hard fork. But with the protocol working well and not encountering major problems, there ISN'T an urgent need for major developments. It's short attention span theater in crypto, these days...I swear.

A lot of people, who bought mining equipment, bought it to become rich in Fiat Currency. One of my friends was planning to spend $10,000 on a KCNminer last year simply to sell the litecoins immediately to become richer in Fiat Currency (£). He got distracted by other events and never got around to it.

But, I think a lot of people did buy big ASIC miners to cash out into Fiat Currency last year (Litecoins were selling for $9 and KCNminers were going to chuck out Litecoins for $0.50). Therefore, these people will keep selling at abnormal rates and the Litecoin price will keep falling because they have zero interested in keeping crypto currencies! Only the size of their Fiat Currency bank balance matters to them.

Litecoin organisation could do an early block halving if it wanted a quick fix to the problem (many other coins have done changes to their block halvings). It would half the amount of coins the elevated number of non-miners with mining equipment can sell of each day for Fiat Currency and the price of coin would start going up.

The people mining and holding litecoin would not mine, because the price would start going up again. Those seeking to cash out into Fait Currency might be upset though! LOL

E.G. as example of maths (no actual Litecoin figures used)

Coin average is 10% of miners sell 10% of a coin each days production - Buyer interest is 10% of coin production = static price.

11% of miners sell coin 11% of each days production - Buyer interest is 10% of coin production = downward price pressure is 1% daily

Block halving early

11% of miners sell coin 11% of each days production (which is 5.5% after block halving) - Buyer interest is 10% of coin production = upwards price 4.5% daily.

Of course, in real exchanges people seldom use maths or macro economics, therefore there tends to be dramatic corrections when people realize something has changed when they weren't paying attention.

[onemorebtc]

Litecoin organisation could do an early block halving if it wanted a quick fix to the problem (many other coins have done changes to their block halvings). It would half the amount of coins the elevated number of non-miners with mining equipment can sell of each day for Fiat Currency and the price of coin would start going up.

The people mining and holding litecoin would not mine, because the price would start going up again. Those seeking to cash out into Fait Currency might be upset though! LOL

changing the reward scheme is dead to any crypto...
if we would accept that we could stay with fiat

btw its not possible to force this: all users (or atleast pools and exchanges) have to switch to the new variant

[thevictimofuktyranny]

Litecoin organisation could do an early block halving if it wanted a quick fix to the problem (many other coins have done changes to their block halvings). It would half the amount of coins the elevated number of non-miners with mining equipment can sell of each day for Fiat Currency and the price of coin would start going up.

The people mining and holding litecoin would not mine, because the price would start going up again. Those seeking to cash out into Fait Currency might be upset though! LOL

changing the reward scheme is dead to any crypto...
if we would accept that we could stay with fiat

btw its not possible to force this: all users (or atleast pools and exchanges) have to switch to the new variant

Have you seen Ripple, 20% of the coins are held by the founders, another 25% are held by Ripple Labs (organisation). People said: "no-one is going to accept this". This 30 Billion coin system, it price has gone through the roof because it miners are holding Ripples and not releasing them into the market.  That is an incredibly bonkers as idea or plan, but people have happily gone along with it and pumped it's price up the 2nd largest crypto currency - never say that x or y policy is unacceptable to investors and miners who hold crypto currencies. The facts prove the opposite is the truth.

At the end of day, Litecoin problems are Maths and Macro Economic questions, people who invest money into Litecoin want the price to go up and miners (who are holding/hoarding Litecoins) want the price to go up. These are the Long Term investors in Litecoin and if they want or need an early Block Halving the organisation will have to do it because they decide Litecoins future success or failure as Ripple has shown!

Building policies for people who mine crypto currency for Fiat Currency is quickest and most efficient way to kill any crypto currency.

I do not think Litecoin organisation will do an early Block Halving, because the organisation and it's mates have big mining operations, they will mine the coin downwards in price by another 12%, saving up the Bitcoins to do a massive buy back of Litecoins over May, June, July and August. Boosting their net crypto wealth by 12% and after the Block Halving Litecoin price will motor up to $3.5 a coin doubling their profits to 24%. LOL

You know crypto currencies are rife with insider trading (pre-agreed dumps and pumps amongst large holders of coins), it is perfectly legal in crypto currency world.      

[cozk]

[smoothie]

I think this posting by Coblee: “Litecoin Does Not Need Development Right Now” will go down in history final turning point and starting date of LTCs last phase of life, leading to complete project failure and price < 1Ct.  

Even now, well known hardcore Litecoiners for the first time don't believe Coblee anymore, they doubt the statement and think its wrong and questioned it in public.
(People that always until this point took als words from Coblee as "undoubtedly messages from god" and NEVER questioned a word he said before and always frenetic defended other controverse statements by Coblee before.)

Except that he's right. The protocol works as intended. It doesn't have any huge bugs that need squashing. What he's saying is that you shouldn't expect them to start adding any new bells and whistles to it, in an effort to create news for some kind of short-term pump. There's no reason to add anything that could potentially break it, for questionable gain.

He isn't suggesting that Litecoin doesn't need any third party development. He's just saying that the protocol itself is solid. Look at what Warren is working on, in terms of changes. There ARE things planned for it...changes to accommodate sidechains in the future and things of that nature, which will eventually require a hard fork. But with the protocol working well and not encountering major problems, there ISN'T an urgent need for major developments. It's short attention span theater in crypto, these days...I swear.

A lot of people, who bought mining equipment, bought it to become rich in Fiat Currency. One of my friends was planning to spend $10,000 on a KCNminer last year simply to sell the litecoins immediately to become richer in Fiat Currency (£). He got distracted by other events and never got around to it.

But, I think a lot of people did buy big ASIC miners to cash out into Fiat Currency last year (Litecoins were selling for $9 and KCNminers were going to chuck out Litecoins for $0.50). Therefore, these people will keep selling at abnormal rates and the Litecoin price will keep falling because they have zero interested in keeping crypto currencies! Only the size of their Fiat Currency bank balance matters to them.

Litecoin organisation could do an early block halving if it wanted a quick fix to the problem (many other coins have done changes to their block halvings). It would half the amount of coins the elevated number of non-miners with mining equipment can sell of each day for Fiat Currency and the price of coin would start going up.

The people mining and holding litecoin would not mine, because the price would start going up again. Those seeking to cash out into Fait Currency might be upset though! LOL

E.G. as example of maths (no actual Litecoin figures used)

Coin average is 10% of miners sell 10% of a coin each days production - Buyer interest is 10% of coin production = static price.

11% of miners sell coin 11% of each days production - Buyer interest is 10% of coin production = downward price pressure is 1% daily

Block halving early

11% of miners sell coin 11% of each days production (which is 5.5% after block halving) - Buyer interest is 10% of coin production = upwards price 4.5% daily.

Of course, in real exchanges people seldom use maths or macro economics, therefore there tends to be dramatic corrections when people realize something has changed when they weren't paying attention.

Changing block reward would do nothing.

Look up "Solidcoin 2".

[thevictimofuktyranny]

Block reward change would do nothing, only a lower mining difficulty and you would be back at your same reward level.

TODAY: Block Reward is 50, equals 28,800 new coins each day!

FUTURE: Block Reward Halving in August 2015 to 25, equals 14,400 new coins each day

Anyone mining Litecoin in August 2015 will get half the amount of coins they did with their mining equipment today, assuming the hashing power on network stays the same. The number of coins reaching the exchanges for sale into Fiat Currency will also halve.

You do know how crypto currencies work?

[mmitech]

I totally agree with OP, I lobbied for Litecoin when it was the best alt out there (there were only few alts anyway), but at this point with all innovative alts I really don't see the purpose of Litecoin existence anymore, it is just a bad copy of Bitcoin.


I don't even advise my friends to invest in crypto at the moment (I believe in really lower bottom) but in the future if any of my friends would ask about my opinion, I would suggest investing only in Bitcoin and one of the established and most developed Crypto 2.0 coins.

[BitcoinNational]

TODAY: Block Reward is 50, equals 28,800 new coins each day!

FUTURE: Block Reward Halving in August 2015 to 25, equals 14,400 new coins each day

5,256,000 ltc /year mid2015-mid2019
below $2 but not above and litecoin may live to 2020
Whats the price today?  The market is getting smarter about these long decay/inflationary coins

2020-2024 only adds 10.4M in ltc inflation

------------------------------
$2 ltc = +$60M tax to miners (2024) ... and it keeps on taxing after that too.
 

[kelsey]

I totally agree with OP, I lobbied for Litecoin when it was the best alt out there (there were only few alts anyway), but at this point with all innovative alts I really don't see the purpose of Litecoin existence anymore, it is just a bad copy of Bitcoin.


I don't even advise my friends to invest in crypto at the moment (I believe in really lower bottom) but in the future if any of my friends would ask about my opinion, I would suggest investing only in Bitcoin and one of the established and most developed Crypto 2.0 coins.

lol innovation, there is no innovative alts, innovations just a term to plug the latest scamcoin.

ltc been 2nd for a long time because it isn't a scam, it will still be second and bounce to new highs soon enough (most been around here long enough know that).

these are meant to be currencies btw how innovative is $USD?

joe publics does even 10 sec of research they'd cross all these so called crypto 2.0  off the list, if they could even understand them or find them in this pile of crap

[smoothie]

Block reward change would do nothing, only a lower mining difficulty and you would be back at your same reward level.

TODAY: Block Reward is 50, equals 28,800 new coins each day!

FUTURE: Block Reward Halving in August 2015 to 25, equals 14,400 new coins each day

Anyone mining Litecoin in August 2015 will get half the amount of coins they did with their mining equipment today, assuming the hashing power on network stays the same. The number of coins reaching the exchanges for sale into Fiat Currency will also halve.

You do know how crypto currencies work?

you are missing the point.

It wouldn't "do" something by changing the block reward NOW in terms of "fixing" price movements etc. It would only instill a precedent that the devs can and will change the block reward on a whim because the price went too far "down".

The developers shouldn't care about price from their development standpoint.

The block reward changing as it was predetermined from Litecoin's launch date in Oct 2011...WILL do something.

[smoothie]

I totally agree with OP, I lobbied for Litecoin when it was the best alt out there (there were only few alts anyway), but at this point with all innovative alts I really don't see the purpose of Litecoin existence anymore, it is just a bad copy of Bitcoin.


I don't even advise my friends to invest in crypto at the moment (I believe in really lower bottom) but in the future if any of my friends would ask about my opinion, I would suggest investing only in Bitcoin and one of the established and most developed Crypto 2.0 coins.

lol innovation, there is no innovative alts, innovations just a term to plug the latest scamcoin.

ltc been 2nd for a long time because it isn't a scam, it will still be second and bounce to new highs soon enough (most been around here long enough know that).

these are meant to be currencies btw how innovative is $USD?

joe publics does even 10 sec of research they'd cross all these so called crypto 2.0  off the list, if they could even understand them or find them in this pile of crap

I know yeah?

Since when does legitimacy = innovation?

Just because Litecoin wasn't the first and is similar to Bitcoin, doesn't mean it can't be successful.

The premise is false from the opinion presented by mmitech assumes that legitimacy = innovation = success and if something is not innovative that it will fail.

[dewdeded]

lol innovation, there is no innovative alts, innovations just a term to plug the latest scamcoin.

At least, BitShares and Monero are very innovative altcoins, and overall good and recommendable projects. I would guess there are at least 5 more.

There is also many innovation in work ATM (e.g. Ethereum).

[noelmal]

I'm very pleased to see this coin die every day.
It makes everybody focus on the right thing.
You cannot serve to masters and y'all know who the master is, right.

A quality education? Your mother? Can I buy a vowel?

[kelsey]

lol innovation, there is no innovative alts, innovations just a term to plug the latest scamcoin.

At least, BitShares and Monero are very innovative altcoins, and overall good and recommendable projects. I would guess there are at least 5 more.

There is also many innovation in work ATM (e.g. Ethereum).

USD ain't so innovative, yet its kicking cryptos ass   


(btw Bitshares and Monero innovative lmao if thats what you consider innovative).

[UnicornFarts]

lol innovation, there is no innovative alts, innovations just a term to plug the latest scamcoin.

At least, BitShares and Monero are very innovative altcoins, and overall good and recommendable projects. I would guess there are at least 5 more.

There is also many innovation in work ATM (e.g. Ethereum).

USD ain't so innovative, yet its kicking cryptos ass  


(btw Bitshares and Monero innovative lmao if thats what you consider innovative).

actually we are building lasers, body armor, drones the size of bees, atom bombs, etc

military might backs currency.  so ya ... i'd disagree about 1000%

[noelmal]

lol innovation, there is no innovative alts, innovations just a term to plug the latest scamcoin.

At least, BitShares and Monero are very innovative altcoins, and overall good and recommendable projects. I would guess there are at least 5 more.

There is also many innovation in work ATM (e.g. Ethereum).

USD ain't so innovative, yet its kicking cryptos ass  


(btw Bitshares and Monero innovative lmao if thats what you consider innovative).

actually we are building lasers, body armor, drones the size of bees, atom bombs, etc

military might backs currency.  so ya ... i'd disagree about 1000%

Please, please tell me those lasers are going on the heads of sharks?

[UnicornFarts]

Working on it just for you.  Throwing some lasers on these badboys

[darkota]

I'm very pleased to see this coin die every day.
It makes everybody focus on the right thing.
You cannot serve to masters and y'all know who the master is, right.

lol, interesting post.