FAIRLAY - SPORTS BETTING for experts - highest liquidity, provably best odds

[blueparrot]

You should think about offering odds for Russian Premierleague?
Today are several matches and you offer no odds.

I think Russian soccer would be more popular than for example soccer from Denmark
(which you are currently offering).

Pinnacle should have odds for Russian soccer as well.

Additionally I think having 2FA to secure your account would be great.
I know that some people don´t have an account at all, but some prefer the
account solution and would be for sure interested in enhancing account
security.

[BTCevo]

We had a anonymous user who got really lucky today. He wanted to place a 132BTC bet on villarreal (vs. cordoba). However - when he send the Bitcoins to the bet address for around 70minutes no block was found. So when the transaction finally was accepted the game already stared and the bet became never active. So this user was lucky and another user who's bet remained unmatched was unlucky.

So obviously it would be nice if we could proceed transactions faster and accept them already with 0 conf. However - we all know that 0 conf transactions are not secure at all but there might be solutions to accept them. One example is greenaddress.it
So our question is how many of you use greenaddress? Is it worth the effort for us to integrate them and allow 0conf transactions from them?

Yes he is really lucky and if he is going to bet 132BTC on villarreal. He sure lose because the game was draw. And why use greenaddress if you got blockchain to support you since blockchain never had this issue before

[VTC]

So obviously it would be nice if we could proceed transactions faster and accept them already with 0 conf. However - we all know that 0 conf transactions are not secure at all but there might be solutions to accept them. One example is greenaddress.it

I believe it's possible to accept zero confirm transactions with a certain setup.  This assumes mining pools are not evil, so this would be up to your personal risk tolerance in you trusting them.

Use a setup such as:
-Accept only standard type transactions
-With fee of at least .0001 or .0001 per 1000 bytes whichever is greater

I recall a gambling site using this setup with no issues to accept instant deposits, but still need a couple of confirmations to withdraw.  This setup will prevent a user from sending a transaction to a certain mining pool that doesn't propagate to other pools. 

A more advanced method would be to check for the propagation percent like shown on blockchain wallet, but think you need to keep a list of every node and query them. MyCelium and bitpay use zero confirm transactions https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/the-mathematically-secure-way-to-accept-zero-confirmation-transactions/

[VTC]

Can you please add Total predictions / Total amount / Unmatched to display in the columns for sport events like you have the other events.  Also would be nice if these columns were sortable just like the "Closing In" column.

[tonyq]

We had a anonymous user who got really lucky today. He wanted to place a 132BTC bet on villarreal (vs. cordoba).

 

[shanem]

We had a anonymous user who got really lucky today. He wanted to place a 132BTC bet on villarreal (vs. cordoba). However - when he send the Bitcoins to the bet address for around 70minutes no block was found. So when the transaction finally was accepted the game already stared and the bet became never active. So this user was lucky and another user who's bet remained unmatched was unlucky.

So obviously it would be nice if we could proceed transactions faster and accept them already with 0 conf. However - we all know that 0 conf transactions are not secure at all but there might be solutions to accept them. One example is greenaddress.it
So our question is how many of you use greenaddress? Is it worth the effort for us to integrate them and allow 0conf transactions from them?

The person was really luck
132 btc is almost close to $30k.
Imagine if he lost $30k in a bet.

[fairlay]

You should think about offering odds for Russian Premierleague?
Today are several matches and you offer no odds.

I think Russian soccer would be more popular than for example soccer from Denmark
(which you are currently offering).

Pinnacle should have odds for Russian soccer as well.

First one small correction. We never offer odds ourself. The user on our market do it (especially market makers but in principle every user how creates a bet that is not directly matched)

So we offer only the events to bet on and we resolve them and pay the winner. Now your request: The problem is, that the data feed (for match-ups and results) that we use does not offer the Russian Premierleague. We might change or extend to another data source but not in the near future.

Additionally I think having 2FA to secure your account would be great.
I know that some people don´t have an account at all, but some prefer the
account solution and would be for sure interested in enhancing account
security.

Sure - security is always important! We already have some form of 2FA since you first need to add a cash-out address and confirm it with your email. That means that an attacker need to get control over both - email and user account. However - what is you concrete suggestion for 2FA. Should we use it only for cash outs or for bets as well. What 2FA method would you prefer?

It would be great if you can add the suggestion here so others can vote for it: https://fairlay.uservoice.com/forums/239705-general

[fairlay]

So obviously it would be nice if we could proceed transactions faster and accept them already with 0 conf. However - we all know that 0 conf transactions are not secure at all but there might be solutions to accept them. One example is greenaddress.it

I believe it's possible to accept zero confirm transactions with a certain setup.  This assumes mining pools are not evil, so this would be up to your personal risk tolerance in you trusting them.

Use a setup such as:
-Accept only standard type transactions
-With fee of at least .0001 or .0001 per 1000 bytes whichever is greater

I recall a gambling site using this setup with no issues to accept instant deposits, but still need a couple of confirmations to withdraw.  This setup will prevent a user from sending a transaction to a certain mining pool that doesn't propagate to other pools. 

A more advanced method would be to check for the propagation percent like shown on blockchain wallet, but think you need to keep a list of every node and query them. MyCelium and bitpay use zero confirm transactions https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/the-mathematically-secure-way-to-accept-zero-confirmation-transactions/

Maybe you are right. However - as long as "replace by fees" https://github.com/petertodd/replace-by-fee-tools is a concept that is actively discussed it is still a gamble to accept 0 conf transaction. Lets take the example from yesterday. Someone places a 123BTC bet one minute before a game starts. Now it can take up to 70 minutes for a block to be found. After 70 minutes the game can already be decided. So if there are only 10% of the pools using a "replace by fees" we have a significant risk.

[fairlay]

Can you please add Total predictions / Total amount / Unmatched to display in the columns for sport events like you have the other events.  Also would be nice if these columns were sortable just like the "Closing In" column.

We have added your suggestion here: can you please vote for it:
https://fairlay.uservoice.com/forums/239705-general/suggestions/7634280-add-total-predictions-total-amount-unmatched-f

But I guess we can do it anyway. I think we had a reason to remove them (maybe because the outcome names - the teams) are much longer than a simple "True". Or it has been performance reasons. However - we will check and add it if possible.

[fairlay]

By the way - we are thinking about starting a signature campaign - any thoughts/comments on that?

[yahoo62278]

By the way - we are thinking about starting a signature campaign - any thoughts/comments on that?

great way to advertise and get your name out there for alot of members to see. instead of only being seen in the gambling section your name will be all over the forum.

[Nowi]

Its looking really good and that 0% fees-wow. Will you add matches for Ice hockey World Champion which will start on few days in Czech republic ?

[BTCevo]

By the way - we are thinking about starting a signature campaign - any thoughts/comments on that?

Yeah its better for you to start the signature campaign but can you really compete to other campaign since so many good campaign out there. Lets make it clear, right here I am not talking about dadice and bit-x. May be you should compete it with other campaign that have same type with you so you still got a chance to make it out there. But before that make sure that your signature design is attractive so people will curious and start to go into your site

[VTC]

Do you plan to keep it 0% fees for sports betting for the future?  It's in interesting strategy if you plan to only profit off the other events.  If only users were rational then you should have the whole bitcoin sportsbetting market in no time.

However, with other sites having a couple percent profit, this gives them a budget to market, better UI, affiliate program, etc...  Perhaps you can consider an affiliate program that pays say 25% of the fee's you make for that event, so it would only payout for the non sporting events at the time being.  This would give an incentive to other users to post and use an affiliate link when reviewing your site or for a signature campaign.

[tjh11]

Is there a lay liability thing? I just placed a lay bet, and it has odds of a little over 1.30…i was wondering what my liability would be on that?

Thanks!

[blueparrot]

Is there a lay liability thing? I just placed a lay bet, and it has odds of a little over 1.30…i was wondering what my liability would be on that?

Thanks!

for a 10 BTC bet your liability would be 3 BTC  

@fairlay
Can you pm me your odds provider? I find it really weird that they seem to offer odds for quite exotic baseball leagues (korean baseball  ) but don´t provide odds
for the russian premier soccer league.

[adaseb]

Do you plan to keep it 0% fees for sports betting for the future?  It's in interesting strategy if you plan to only profit off the other events.  If only users were rational then you should have the whole bitcoin sportsbetting market in no time.

However, with other sites having a couple percent profit, this gives them a budget to market, better UI, affiliate program, etc...  Perhaps you can consider an affiliate program that pays say 25% of the fee's you make for that event, so it would only payout for the non sporting events at the time being.  This would give an incentive to other users to post and use an affiliate link when reviewing your site or for a signature campaign.

Yes I have the same question. But I am pretty sure that as the site gets bigger the fees will have to rise to pay the bills and maintaince of the site and server.

[casinobitcoin]

Just curious about your site... so you can accept bets as high as 132 btc with no fee? How does that work without a matching player?

Good luck!

[fairlay]

@fairlay
Can you pm me your odds provider? I find it really weird that they seem to offer odds for quite exotic baseball leagues (korean baseball  ) but don´t provide odds
for the russian premier soccer league.

here we go: https://www.fairlay.com/event/category/soccer/russia-premier-league/

Actually we don't have an odds provider - we do have an provider for the sport events (and the results) and we have market maker on our platform (and we are still looking for more - have a look here: https://www.fairlay.com/api). So the odds on our page are just the result of all active user.

[fairlay]

Do you plan to keep it 0% fees for sports betting for the future?  It's in interesting strategy if you plan to only profit off the other events.  If only users were rational then you should have the whole bitcoin sportsbetting market in no time.

However, with other sites having a couple percent profit, this gives them a budget to market, better UI, affiliate program, etc...  Perhaps you can consider an affiliate program that pays say 25% of the fee's you make for that event, so it would only payout for the non sporting events at the time being.  This would give an incentive to other users to post and use an affiliate link when reviewing your site or for a signature campaign.

We will have the 0% policy on sportbets at least for the next 6 month. Maybe forever. We are in general super excited about the whole concept of a prediction market/ (betting exchange). However, unlike a bookmaker it is important to reach a critical mass. Only if the market on the events are liquid the odds become very good (far better than at bookmakers). So as you pointed out - one part will be to offer markets on events no one offers odds on. So we encourage everyone to make proposal for any kind of events: https://www.fairlay.com/event/new/
Another strategy might be to charge for the use of the API.

On the affiliate topic - you are right - that is our disadvantage, we can not give away a first deposit bonus or spend a lot of money on marketing. We might still be able to give away a small amount per new user for affiliation links. Actually we already have the affiliations links working and we do track the numbers and we will soon start to pay for new users - we are just about to decide the exact conditions.