BTCD is no more

[valarmg]

I hate, hate, hate this idea. Why do you need to add artificial measures to raise BTCD's price? If BTCD is used, then the price will go up. Measures that make teleporting expensive (and 1 BTCD could easily become worth a lot) will just kill the coin long term. Imagine if BTCD had a marketcap the same as bitcoin. Each BTCD would be worth 6000 dolllars and if would be too expensive for most people to teleport. What would happen? BTCD teleporting would suck because so few people used it, and someone would clone BTCD, make it much cheaper to teleport and everyone would use the new coin and BTCD would fall off the map.

Imagine if twitter had decided to charge for tweets (even a fraction of a penny). That would be killing the goose that laid the golden eggs. I fear this would do the same to BTCD longterm.

it is not a fee, but a deposit requirement
The deposit should scale according to market value, so we can reset it if it goes above $10 or so
certainly nothing like $6000!
I just thought it would be strange to allow BTCD to teleport BTC for some BTC guy who didnt even have any BTCD

You are putting barriers in the way of usage. That will reduce the number of people using it, and thus reduce its effectiveness, while also reducing the amount of fees generated (plus encouraging others to make a copy and push their barrier-less version). If BTCD is cheaper for teleporting than bitcoin, that's a reason to use BTCD instead of bitcoin. If BTCD users are getting dividends from InstantDex and teleporting, it'll be gaining in value from that, plus getting loads of publicity. (That will draw bitcoin users to all the other features in BTCD, InstantDex,privatebet,etc.)

The key to adoption is making it as easy and cheap as possible to use. Adding an artificial requirement just in the hope of gain a price rise is a bad idea longterm.

[jl777]

I think it is a great idea! It is not unlike having to have a minimum deposit in a savings account with a bank before they give you a loan. They will also earn interest on the BTCD just like a savings account.

Yes, my idea is to force people to stake, then when they start getting dividends on top of the 5% staking, that could create another avid BTCD HODLer

so, the first step is to get people to stake with at least 1 BTCD, preferably 254 while the prices are not so high. Then they see staking income, then dividends, then maybe they decide they want to get more.

So it is not really to charge a big fee, more to increase the number of people staking, which also makes the network stronger with more nodes.

I just envisioned all these BTC guys teleporting, and they pay a small fee in BTC, but they never had to even have any BTCD and that just seemed wrong

James

[valarmg]

The alternative is that I could charge teleport fees in BTCD, but that makes for much more complicated code

If it is possible to have the poll for approx deposit amount cap, I think it will help. These fears of $6000 deposits are unfounded, BTCD is not like DRK!

I think anything over >$10, $10, $5, $1, 0.1, 0.01

something like that. keep in mind this would be cap and when market price exceeds it, we would need to update it with a new version

Just the hassle of having to change into a new currency, storing stuff in a new wallet could turn away numerous potential users, who in turn won't then recommend it to others.

[jl777]

I hate, hate, hate this idea. Why do you need to add artificial measures to raise BTCD's price? If BTCD is used, then the price will go up. Measures that make teleporting expensive (and 1 BTCD could easily become worth a lot) will just kill the coin long term. Imagine if BTCD had a marketcap the same as bitcoin. Each BTCD would be worth 6000 dolllars and if would be too expensive for most people to teleport. What would happen? BTCD teleporting would suck because so few people used it, and someone would clone BTCD, make it much cheaper to teleport and everyone would use the new coin and BTCD would fall off the map.

Imagine if twitter had decided to charge for tweets (even a fraction of a penny). That would be killing the goose that laid the golden eggs. I fear this would do the same to BTCD longterm.

it is not a fee, but a deposit requirement
The deposit should scale according to market value, so we can reset it if it goes above $10 or so
certainly nothing like $6000!
I just thought it would be strange to allow BTCD to teleport BTC for some BTC guy who didnt even have any BTCD

You are putting barriers in the way of usage. That will reduce the number of people using it, and thus reduce its effectiveness, while also reducing the amount of fees generated (plus encouraging others to make a copy and push their barrier-less version). If BTCD is cheaper for teleporting than bitcoin, that's a reason to use BTCD instead of bitcoin. If BTCD users are getting dividends from InstantDex and teleporting, it'll be gaining in value from that, plus getting loads of publicity. (That will draw bitcoin users to all the other features in BTCD, InstantDex,privatebet,etc.)

The key to adoption is making it as easy and cheap as possible to use. Adding an artificial requirement just in the hope of gain a price rise is a bad idea longterm.

What if BTCD stakers got a discounted teleport fee?
the more BTCD you had, the cheaper it is to teleport BTC or any other coin?

[clovis A.]

I think the idea is grand as well.  Although, it sounds like the community (myself included) needs to be educated on the subject a little more before the poll would reflect accurate voting.  Just from the responses thus far, I've kinda gone back and forth in my mind already. I've yet to vote, but it seems there's going to be a good amount of input on this subject.  Maybe give it 24 hours or something like that.... I'd like to hear more from the community before I cast my vote 

[jl777]

The alternative is that I could charge teleport fees in BTCD, but that makes for much more complicated code

If it is possible to have the poll for approx deposit amount cap, I think it will help. These fears of $6000 deposits are unfounded, BTCD is not like DRK!

I think anything over >$10, $10, $5, $1, 0.1, 0.01

something like that. keep in mind this would be cap and when market price exceeds it, we would need to update it with a new version

Just the hassle of having to change into a new currency, storing stuff in a new wallet could turn away numerous potential users, who in turn won't then recommend it to others.

Well they would need to have BTCD installed to be able to teleport BTC
It is like with NXT, you pretty much have to have some NXT to do anything, how is this different?

[Azeh]

The alternative is that I could charge teleport fees in BTCD, but that makes for much more complicated code

If it is possible to have the poll for approx deposit amount cap, I think it will help. These fears of $6000 deposits are unfounded, BTCD is not like DRK!

I think anything over >$10, $10, $5, $1, 0.1, 0.01

something like that. keep in mind this would be cap and when market price exceeds it, we would need to update it with a new version

Depending on the outcome of the poll, that can be the next poll.  Don't want to change it now, but if people agree on principle than the should just vote yes.  If not then no.  After you vote, if the voter has something further to add, then they can make a post explaining their stance.

[valarmg]

What if BTCD stakers got a discounted teleport fee?
the more BTCD you had, the cheaper it is to teleport BTC or any other coin?

That's more reasonable. But I still think you have to be careful--if you make it too expensive, a bitcoiner will clone your code (one who knows enough to avoid the disrupter) and no one will ever use BTCD again. Initially you just want to make it as easy and as cheap as possible. Once, you have the customers, then the value/price will take care of itself (Just ask Facebook,Amazon,Google,Twitter etc.) Get people using it, get fees coming to BTCD holders, BTCD will increase in value based on that.

[Azeh]

What if BTCD stakers got a discounted teleport fee?
the more BTCD you had, the cheaper it is to teleport BTC or any other coin?

That's more reasonable. But I still think you have to be careful--if you make it too expensive, a bitcoiner will clone your code (one who knows enough to avoid the disrupter) and no one will ever use BTCD again. Initially you just want to make it as easy and as cheap as possible. Once, you have the customers, then the value/price will take care of itself (Just ask Facebook,Amazon,Google,Twitter etc.) Get people using it, get fees coming to BTCD holders, BTCD will increase in value based on that.

Nice point valarmg.  Never really thought about it that way.

[EcoChavCrypto]

I think it is a very reasonable idea if the fee is scaled with the growth of btcd value.

I second that.

[crazyearner]

Wish I had more of this coin staking like a boos but multi mining is crap as theirs not enough sha coins to flip between to get a good payout on BTCD

[jl777]

What if BTCD stakers got a discounted teleport fee?
the more BTCD you had, the cheaper it is to teleport BTC or any other coin?

That's more reasonable. But I still think you have to be careful--if you make it too expensive, a bitcoiner will clone your code (one who knows enough to avoid the disrupter) and no one will ever use BTCD again. Initially you just want to make it as easy and as cheap as possible. Once, you have the customers, then the value/price will take care of itself (Just ask Facebook,Amazon,Google,Twitter etc.) Get people using it, get fees coming to BTCD holders, BTCD will increase in value based on that.

I was thinking of this
What do you think of free teleporting (at M of N limit based on min deposit multiplier) for people with BTCD staking, for the first year (or some longish timeframe)?

This is the marketshare approach used by the companies you mention.
Basically eliminate virtually all barriers to adoption. They have to install the BTCD wallet anyway, so having them get some minimal BTCD is just a financial requirement and any nominal amount of teleporting would make getting the BTCD the cheaper option

This means sacrificing the first year's teleport fees, but BTCD hodlers would see an increase in demand that should provide enough price increase to balance out the revenues that are being deferred.
Then as time goes on we slowly add some negligible fee, maybe start at the coin's tx fee, then gradually over time it approches 0.1%

[EcoChavCrypto]

I think the deposit is a great idea.  It sounds similar to the Quatloo trade bot.  The bot will allow you to use it on Bittrex if you have 100 Quatloo in your account and opens up special features if you have 1000 in there.  If you are not familiar with it you should check it out.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOCQBECcZhM

[valarmg]

What if BTCD stakers got a discounted teleport fee?
the more BTCD you had, the cheaper it is to teleport BTC or any other coin?

That's more reasonable. But I still think you have to be careful--if you make it too expensive, a bitcoiner will clone your code (one who knows enough to avoid the disrupter) and no one will ever use BTCD again. Initially you just want to make it as easy and as cheap as possible. Once, you have the customers, then the value/price will take care of itself (Just ask Facebook,Amazon,Google,Twitter etc.) Get people using it, get fees coming to BTCD holders, BTCD will increase in value based on that.

I was thinking of this
What do you think of free teleporting (at M of N limit based on min deposit multiplier) for people with BTCD staking, for the first year (or some longish timeframe)?

This is the marketshare approach used by the companies you mention.
Basically eliminate virtually all barriers to adoption. They have to install the BTCD wallet anyway, so having them get some minimal BTCD is just a financial requirement and any nominal amount of teleporting would make getting the BTCD the cheaper option

This means sacrificing the first year's teleport fees, but BTCD hodlers would see an increase in demand that should provide enough price increase to balance out the revenues that are being deferred.
Then as time goes on we slowly add some negligible fee, maybe start at the coin's tx fee, then gradually over time it approches 0.1%

Now you are talking! Give BTCD holders free teleporting, charge some fee for everyone else.

[MuFaza]

I fundamentally agree with requirements to teleport coins.

I think basic teleports should be easy (no requirement to hold btcd), but include slightly higher fee. To decrease fees user would have to hold some btcd and that would give incentive for hodling.
Like James put it: Give discounts for holders that use teleports.

1 btcd reduces fees to normal 0.1% and 100 unlocks 254 N + 0.01% fee?

[jl777]

What if BTCD stakers got a discounted teleport fee?
the more BTCD you had, the cheaper it is to teleport BTC or any other coin?

That's more reasonable. But I still think you have to be careful--if you make it too expensive, a bitcoiner will clone your code (one who knows enough to avoid the disrupter) and no one will ever use BTCD again. Initially you just want to make it as easy and as cheap as possible. Once, you have the customers, then the value/price will take care of itself (Just ask Facebook,Amazon,Google,Twitter etc.) Get people using it, get fees coming to BTCD holders, BTCD will increase in value based on that.

I was thinking of this
What do you think of free teleporting (at M of N limit based on min deposit multiplier) for people with BTCD staking, for the first year (or some longish timeframe)?

This is the marketshare approach used by the companies you mention.
Basically eliminate virtually all barriers to adoption. They have to install the BTCD wallet anyway, so having them get some minimal BTCD is just a financial requirement and any nominal amount of teleporting would make getting the BTCD the cheaper option

This means sacrificing the first year's teleport fees, but BTCD hodlers would see an increase in demand that should provide enough price increase to balance out the revenues that are being deferred.
Then as time goes on we slowly add some negligible fee, maybe start at the coin's tx fee, then gradually over time it approches 0.1%

Now you are talking! Give BTCD holders free teleporting, charge some fee for everyone else.

It was always free for teleporting BTCD
I am talking about making it free to teleport any other coin as long as you had BTCD
The more advanced features you wanted to use, the more BTCD you have to own, but no fees for the first year for any teleporting

I think that kills any chance for competition

[jl777]

I fundamentally agree with requirements to teleport coins.

I think basic teleports should be easy (no requirement to hold btcd), but include slightly higher fee. To decrease fees user would have to hold some btcd and that would give incentive for hodling.
Like James put it: Give discounts for holders that use teleports.

1 btcd reduces fees to normal 0.1% and 100 unlocks 254 N + 0.01% fee?

It would be simplest to have no fees at all the first year (or X months)
simplest means faster to implement and get into production
simplest means less chance for bugs
So this is shift in philosophy, but we can always start adding teleport fees to other coins
I just want as big of user base as quick as possible as the anon set is directly proportional to the user base

Once we have giant user base, then it becomes the place all new privacy seekers have to use. Then nobody minds tiny fees

James

[MuFaza]

I fundamentally agree with requirements to teleport coins.

I think basic teleports should be easy (no requirement to hold btcd), but include slightly higher fee. To decrease fees user would have to hold some btcd and that would give incentive for hodling.
Like James put it: Give discounts for holders that use teleports.

1 btcd reduces fees to normal 0.1% and 100 unlocks 254 N + 0.01% fee?

It would be simplest to have no fees at all the first year (or X months)
simplest means faster to implement and get into production
simplest means less chance for bugs
So this is shift in philosophy, but we can always start adding teleport fees to other coins
I just want as big of user base as quick as possible as the anon set is directly proportional to the user base

Once we have giant user base, then it becomes the place all new privacy seekers have to use. Then nobody minds tiny fees

James

I totally agree with free adoption period.

[valarmg]

Now you are talking! Give BTCD holders free teleporting, charge some fee for everyone else.

It was always free for teleporting BTCD
I am talking about making it free to teleport any other coin as long as you had BTCD
The more advanced features you wanted to use, the more BTCD you have to own, but no fees for the first year for any teleporting

I think that kills any chance for competition

That's what I meant. Anyone who owns BTCD gets free teleporting.

Just read your next post. Clearly, start off with free teleporting for all coins since that reduces development time, then figure out fees for those who want to transport non-BTCD (and don't hold BTCD) later. Get the big user base first. It may be that no-fees for teleporting can be a loss leader for the BTCD network, drawing everyone to the new BTCD reskinned wallet. Once you have them, you make the profits with InstantDex and PrivateBet.

[jl777]

Now you are talking! Give BTCD holders free teleporting, charge some fee for everyone else.

It was always free for teleporting BTCD
I am talking about making it free to teleport any other coin as long as you had BTCD
The more advanced features you wanted to use, the more BTCD you have to own, but no fees for the first year for any teleporting

I think that kills any chance for competition

That's what I meant. Anyone who owns BTCD gets free teleporting.

Just read your next post. Clearly, start off with free teleporting for all coins since that reduces development time, then figure out fees for those who want to transport non-BTCD (and don't hold BTCD) later. Get the big user base first. It may be that no-fees for teleporting can be a loss leader for the BTCD network, drawing everyone to the new BTCD reskinned wallet. Once you have them, you make the profits with InstantDex and PrivateBet.

The part I like the most is that it is much much less work for me to get teleporting of other coins implemented
so assuming the current poll stays the way it is, the next poll question is this free teleport for limited time period, and/or deposit cap, and then duration of free period.

seems like we have many polls to do