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Author Topic: bustabit.com -- The Social Gambling Game  (Read 293944 times)
iram3130
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September 13, 2014, 10:14:13 PM
 #141

I just saw moneypot, and I really loved it so much.

Very nice and fun playing site.

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Babba D
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September 13, 2014, 10:16:32 PM
 #142

I DOUBLED THE 5,000 BITS , GREAT SITE , VERY FAIR AND PAYMENT WAS SENT IN ......... LESS THAN A SECOND , MUST TRY IT GUYS , VERY FUN !!!

IT COULD BE EVEN AWESOME IF DOGECOINS ARE ACCEPTED TOO

espringe (OP)
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September 13, 2014, 10:51:05 PM
 #143

I hope you consider making a crowd-funded version, with higher limits. I'd be very interested in both investing in and playing on such a site.

Thanks man, I appreciate it.

I just quit my job, so after I finish my notice period -- I'm going to be able to really dedicate myself. However, unfortunately, I don't plan on increasing the limits or taking investors for this particular game.

a) I'm greedy, I don't want to give 90% of my winnings to investors Grin
b) Whales just unbalance the bonus pool
c) I can't comp like a money-hater if I have investors (So far 6.08 BTC in comps given out. Woah.)
d) It's too twitch based, not in the EV sense but in the sense a few milliseconds of lag or latency often is the difference between a successful cash out or not. By limiting peoples bets, I kind of protect themselves a bit
e) I'm never going to be able to convince everyone its fair (like look at abreezy's complaint, no one can tell if I feigned that network issue or not to stop him cashing out ) -- the more money people risk, the more this is an issue
f) I envision it as a social game, where people actually try get the bonus -- not play obvious to it.

For now, I'll step aside and leave the investor/whale market to guys like dice.ninja =)
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September 13, 2014, 11:58:47 PM
 #144

I just quit my job, so after I finish my notice period -- I'm going to be able to really dedicate myself. However, unfortunately, I don't plan on increasing the limits or taking investors for this particular game.

I know I joke about it, but your "softness" in terms of comping players excessively, and paying "good will" payments to anyone with a real or imagined grievance is going to become a problem if you don't get a handle on it.

I understand being generous at the start to build goodwill and a customer base, but when you're giving away 100% or more of your profits I'm not sure it makes sense.

a) I'm greedy, I don't want to give 90% of my winnings to investors Grin

10% of 1000 BTC is more than 100% of 10 BTC. Investors allow you to attract whales. You can always increase your commission rate if you want a bigger share of the profits for yourself - it's not a black and white decision.

b) Whales just unbalance the bonus pool

Yes, but only while they're playing, which is a small percentage of the time. They tend to cash out early or go bust. And while they're playing they create a buzz that's worth more than any paid-for advertisement. People love to watch whale action.

c) I can't comp like a money-hater if I have investors (So far 6.08 BTC in comps given out. Woah.)

Well you can - but only with your 10% (or whatever) of the profits.

d) It's too twitch based, not in the EV sense but in the sense a few milliseconds of lag or latency often is the difference between a successful cash out or not. By limiting peoples bets, I kind of protect themselves a bit

You can make it clear that the game is subject to the vagaries of network lag, and that players can protect themselves by using the auto-cashout option. My connection is horrible but I was happy to play using auto-cashout, with the option to 'twitch' cashout when I got "that feeling".

e) I'm never going to be able to convince everyone its fair (like look at abreezy's complaint, no one can tell if I feigned that network issue or not to stop him cashing out ) -- the more money people risk, the more this is an issue

You can't, but you don't need to. Even on a site like Just-Dice (where it was mathematically provable that it was fair) we had people who didn't (or didn't want to) understand provable fairness claiming we were cheating them. There's nothing you can do about people who are unable or unwilling to understand how your game works. You just need to make it clear in the FAQ that you can't prove various things are fair, and that by playing they are accepting those risks.

f) I envision it as a social game, where people actually try get the bonus -- not play obvious to it.

"oblivious", right? That's a fair point. I don't think "social" is the word - optimal play probably involves focussing too hard on the numbers to ever chat to anyone. But competition for the bonus works at the "whale" level just the same as it does at lower levels - so long as you have enough whales. Maybe run multiple tables, so players who don't want the bonus to be dominated by someone betting whole BTC amounts can have somewhere to play.

For now, I'll step aside and leave the investor/whale market to guys like dice.ninja =)

That's fine, but I think it's a shame. You seem like a good trustworthy guy, which is what we need in the Bitcoin gaming space right now. I think that by limiting your max bet to 0.1 BTC you're missing out on a lot of publicity, action, earnings, etc.

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espringe (OP)
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September 14, 2014, 04:54:48 AM
 #145

Quote
Yes, but only while they're playing, which is a small percentage of the time. They tend to cash out early or go bust. And while they're playing they create a buzz that's worth more than any paid-for advertisement. People love to watch whale action.

Hmm true. Here's my thinking though: I am able and willing to bankroll the vast majority of game play myself. It's just that whale action I need assistance to support. So most of the time, it really feels like the investment scheme means paying investors for a service I don't need.

So almost what I conceptually would like small bets play against my bankroll, while large bets play against my+investor bankroll. I could charge them no management fees at all (as you mention, they'd doing me a favor), but I'm doubt investors would go for something like that as it would leave their money much more idle.

Is there a dump of JDs bet data anywhere? I'd be very interested in seeing how much the site made on "bets with potential profit <= 1 BTC" and "bets with potential profit over 1 BTC".


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Even on a site like Just-Dice (where it was mathematically provable that it was fair) we had people who didn't (or didn't want to) understand provable fairness claiming we were cheating them. There's nothing you can do about people who are unable or unwilling to understand how your game works.

Sure, but the difference is if someone loses 10 BTC on JD, and calls foul play -- everyone will laugh at them. But if someone loses the same amount on money pot an calls foul play everyone thinks: "yeah, that's possible -- i wonder if MP is cheating".

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"oblivious", right? That's a fair point.
Yeah, sorry.

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That's fine, but I think it's a shame. You seem like a good trustworthy guy, which is what we need in the Bitcoin gaming space right now. I think that by limiting your max bet to 0.1 BTC you're missing out on a lot of publicity, action, earnings, etc.

One thing I learnt is that when people lose due to latency or perceived latency, it leaves them with a real bad feeling. People don't feel like they lost, they feel like there was a problem in the game. I have one guy threatening to have me beat up because of it (and that's despite me even comping him 2/5th of his loss) -- and I don't even think he's an evil or bad person, just someone who genuinely feels wronged.

The next game I build, is not going to be twitch-sensitive and be a lot more provably fair -- and that's the point when I'll feel a lot more comfortable taking investors and large betters there =)
Babba D
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September 14, 2014, 08:04:19 AM
Last edit: September 14, 2014, 08:26:32 AM by Babba D
 #146

if possible please do one thing correct which when we click cashout it cashout at the same moment , i started clicking on cashout at 1.5x but i wasnt able till 3x and then i lost

anyways my username is babulal , if possible refund me those 10k

and i lost 10,000 bits because this bad issue ,otherwise it was awesome

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September 14, 2014, 01:34:26 PM
 #147

Well, congratulations to whitetuxpeng! From a modest size deposit, he came in last night to take my months worth of operating profit, and dooglus's #1 rank:

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September 14, 2014, 05:07:26 PM
 #148

Hmm true. Here's my thinking though: I am able and willing to bankroll the vast majority of game play myself. It's just that whale action I need assistance to support. So most of the time, it really feels like the investment scheme means paying investors for a service I don't need.

So almost what I conceptually would like small bets play against my bankroll, while large bets play against my+investor bankroll. I could charge them no management fees at all (as you mention, they'd doing me a favor), but I'm doubt investors would go for something like that as it would leave their money much more idle.

That's not unreasonable. One problem I see with it is that unlike on regular dice sites, you don't know what profit a player is aiming for until they win or lose. If you knew in advance that he was aiming for a 100x payout, you could get investors involved for part of the bet, but you don't.

Is there a dump of JDs bet data anywhere? I'd be very interested in seeing how much the site made on "bets with potential profit <= 1 BTC" and "bets with potential profit over 1 BTC".

There isn't, and I don't have it indexed like that either. I can come up with some numbers though if you give me a while.

The next game I build, is not going to be twitch-sensitive and be a lot more provably fair -- and that's the point when I'll feel a lot more comfortable taking investors and large betters there =)

Fair enough. I see the distinction, and provably fair is the way to go. You'll still get people threatening to beat you up, but at least they'll know deep down that they're in the wrong and could prove it to themselves if they wanted to.

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September 16, 2014, 06:56:32 AM
 #149

Well then.
Bank can be made here.  Shocked

11k crash OP
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September 16, 2014, 09:27:46 AM
 #150

Seems someone posted a link to your site on PD, not sure if it was OP or just someone since it was directlink ANwyas Im checking it out lol

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September 16, 2014, 09:49:43 PM
 #151

This just happened lol!
https://www.moneypot.com/game/557830

16k multiplyer Smiley
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September 16, 2014, 10:45:37 PM
 #152

This just happened lol!
https://www.moneypot.com/game/557830

16k multiplyer Smiley

For those people thinking "how can he afford to pay out at 16000x when the max bet is 0.1 BTC? this must be a scam!", the maximum profit per round is something like 1 BTC. The game constantly monitors how much it would have to pay out if everyone was to cash out "right now", and automatically cashes everyone out when that amount is too much. So Eric never loses more than 1 BTC (or 0.9 BTC? I'm not sure of the number) in total per round, even if it does go to 16000x.

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September 16, 2014, 10:49:20 PM
 #153

This just happened lol!
https://www.moneypot.com/game/557830

16k multiplyer Smiley

For those people thinking "how can he afford to pay out at 16000x when the max bet is 0.1 BTC? this must be a scam!", the maximum profit per round is something like 1 BTC. The game constantly monitors how much it would have to pay out if everyone was to cash out "right now", and automatically cashes everyone out when that amount is too much. So Eric never loses more than 1 BTC (or 0.9 BTC? I'm not sure of the number) in total per round, even if it does go to 16000x.

Yup exactly Smiley

Highest i have seen so far, but i know there was one over 20000
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September 17, 2014, 05:51:23 AM
 #154

For those people thinking "how can he afford to pay out at 16000x when the max bet is 0.1 BTC? this must be a scam!", the maximum profit per round is something like 1 BTC. The game constantly monitors how much it would have to pay out if everyone was to cash out "right now", and automatically cashes everyone out when that amount is too much. So Eric never loses more than 1 BTC (or 0.9 BTC? I'm not sure of the number) in total per round, even if it does go to 16000x.
You can earn a maximum of 1BTC per round and the maximum amount of coins you can gamble per game is 0.1BTC. This can (and most likely will) be changed. Wink

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espringe (OP)
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September 17, 2014, 07:42:55 AM
 #155

Hey guys, exciting news! We're entering a new phase of Money Pot, I'm seeing a lot of bot activity! For now the main bot function I'm seeing is join-sniping or something (people joining within the last 20ms of the join period, presumedly to hide their involvement in the round) often based on certain conditions (e.g. that 50k has been wagered that round).

If you play a really obviously exploitable strategy (e.g. always cashing out at 1.01x) you are more likely to have your bonus taken by bots, which would mean an excepted loss of an extra 1%.

But here's the more important thing: be careful. I don't have a problem with you using a bot to play, but don't run anything you don't 100% trust on your computer. One of the full-members here on bitcointalk sent me a copy of a "bot" (in .exe format) -- I gave him the benefit of the doubt and ran it, but it's almost certainly just trying to steal your bitcoins rather than help you play profitably!

Oh yeah, and lastly people are 100% responsible for the winnings and loses their bot makes. There's no recomp for bots-gone-wild so please test on an account with a small amount of money Grin
BlTCOlN
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September 17, 2014, 08:04:21 AM
 #156

14y2hMaKG3ypEXZCa74RwaabQCTP4EfQX7

Account Information : MzTriple7s

Deposits
187,580.0 bits

Withdrawals
0.0 bits

Free Bits Collected
18.00

Net Profit
-187,596.98 Bits


Some free bits would be great to have a go at it again Smiley

Bit-Gods
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September 17, 2014, 11:34:11 AM
 #157

If i will play here i will take all your money  Cool

espringe (OP)
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September 19, 2014, 11:44:21 PM
Last edit: September 20, 2014, 12:29:39 AM by espringe
 #158

Hey guys, I'm dealing with some massive database performance issue at the moment. I'm not sure what's going on, but I need to take the whole site offline while I do it as it's effected the ability for some cashouts to be recorded.

Please be patient until i find out what's happening, but rest assure everything will be made alright and no one funds have gone missing or anything =)


Edit: I believe the issue was I have not been vacuuming the database, I'm not 100% sure about it, but database appears to be performing normally once again.

As a precaution I'm moving to a much, much beefier database server. Please excuse the downtime as I do so.

If anyone has been effected due to these database issues (as I know some people have been) please contact me via support and I'll make sure to comp you ASAP. Everyone else I'll slowly work through the logs to recompensate.

Again, very sorry about this =/


Edit 2: We're back online, using a beefy database server -- and I'll spend more effort on keeping an eye on database performance
voelkelshibe
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September 23, 2014, 01:24:28 PM
 #159

Quick feature suggestion.

It would be nice if there was a box with the total amount of the bonus pool per round.  Right now, it's hard to tell what is going on with the bonus without playing the game a lot and even then you just get a general feel for it.  I think if you put the total amount of the bonus pot for each round, then people would strategize more around getting the bonus because it's more visible.

To take this one step even further, it would be cool if the bonus amount was dynamically updated in the "profit" column for each round.  If the players felt like they could "steal" the bonus away from the other players that could create some more competition and more strategies.

I love this game, but while reading the FAQ, I get the sense that there should be more strategy among the players, but instead everyone is simply trying to reach a particular multiplier.
dooglus
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September 23, 2014, 10:51:30 PM
 #160

Quick feature suggestion.

It would be nice if there was a box with the total amount of the bonus pool per round.  Right now, it's hard to tell what is going on with the bonus without playing the game a lot and even then you just get a general feel for it.  I think if you put the total amount of the bonus pot for each round, then people would strategize more around getting the bonus because it's more visible.

To take this one step even further, it would be cool if the bonus amount was dynamically updated in the "profit" column for each round.  If the players felt like they could "steal" the bonus away from the other players that could create some more competition and more strategies.

I love this game, but while reading the FAQ, I get the sense that there should be more strategy among the players, but instead everyone is simply trying to reach a particular multiplier.

I agree. The bonus is distributed very fairly, but it's kind of confusing, and not well displayed.

If you click on the game in the history, you'll see how the bonus was distributed, but that feels like leaving the game, and I doubt many people ever look there.

Some display showing "total bonus this round", "your bonus if you win", and other more dynamic stats might help engage more players in the bonus hunting ("your minimum guaranteed bonus if you cash out right now", for instance (it could be higher if the other remaining players don't cash out)). Showing the bonuses other players are winning would help too. If I always cash out at 1.01x I probably won't even be aware that the braver players are getting decent sized rewards pretty regularly.

Here's how the bonus works. Unless you're the biggest player you can never scoop the whole 1% bonus pot:

1% of each player's stake goes into the bonus pot. So if there are 4 players, betting 400, 300, 200, and 100, there will be 10 bits in the pot. If the biggest player wins, he gets the whole pot. The site works out the rate he would be getting if he won, ie. 400 bits bet gives 10 bits bonus - or 1/40th bonus per bit bet. It then applies the same rate to whoever actually wins.

So if the 100 bit player wins, he gets 1/40th of 100, or 2.5 bits. That leaves 7.5 bits in the pot, which goes to the next best placing player(s).

Suppose the 200 bit player comes 2nd. He is due 1/40th of 200, or 5 bits. There are still 7.5 bits in the pot, so he gets the full 5 bits he is due - the same as if he had come in 1st place.

Suppose the 300 bit player comes 3rd. He's due 7.5 bits (300/40) but there are only 2.5 bits left in the pot, so he gets those and that's all. There's nothing left for the 4th or worse place players.

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