[ANN] SpreadCoin | True Decentralization (No Pools) | Testing New Masternodes

[coins101]

-snip-
All the ideas for servicenodes and commercial exploitation are really fantastic. The network as an open decentralized app store is brilliant and something that cant be easily replicated by scam devs.

[chrysophylax]

-snip-
All the ideas for servicenodes and commercial exploitation are really fantastic. The network as an open decentralized app store is brilliant and something that cant be easily replicated by scam devs.

hahaha ... thats a classic ...

#crysx

[georgem]

-snip-
All the ideas for servicenodes and commercial exploitation are really fantastic. The network as an open decentralized app store is brilliant and something that cant be easily replicated by scam devs.

To further define servicenodes:

There will be two kinds of apps:

1) apps that require the servicenode network for the app to function. (distributed algorithms)
2) apps that are simply shared/sold/distributed by the servicenode network and that are being installed and run on the wallet-side only. (or maybe even as standalone programs for desktop/android etc...)
In this case the servicenodes merely act as app stores as we know them from google play and itunes etc...

We can even use the servicenode network to distribute the most recent wallets, and maybe even some official websites (in-wallet browser?)

[coins101]

[gjhiggins]

For SPR, the devs will need to give feedback on the framework to enable apps to plug into the servicenodes, when they are ready.

No plugins will be required per se, once a viable solution for the core problem is in sight ...

Obligatory prefatory admonishment: DYR, ofc.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts

“Example 4: Using external state”

Scripts are, by design, pure functions. They cannot poll external servers or import any state that may change as it would allow an attacker to outrun the block chain. What's more, the scripting language is extremely limited in what it can do. Fortunately, we can make transactions connected to the world in other ways.

c.f. Early Temple project https://earlytemple.com:8181/

and also https://github.com/orisi/wiki/wiki/Mastering-Distributed-Oracles

Just to give you something to chew on ... this is a very rough sketch of a thought experiment for an automated lottery that I don't yet know how to implement:

1. A global burn address is created and hard-coded into the app.
2. Wallet owners can send max(one) coin to the burn address, where it is irrecoverably lost.
3. Entrants are the list of the sending addresses of coins burned since the last draw.
4. Drawing occurs when prevBlock.nHeight mod 1440 == 0
5. Winners are the owners of the n addresses that are hex-within(prevblock.merklehash +/- a calculated range)
7. An amount of totalburnedcoins is added to the block reward.
8. totalburnedcoins - commission coins are paid to winning addresses in amounts according to a predetermined scale.
9. The house receives the predefined commission.

Even something as drop-dead simple as this is infeasible. As a distributed open source app, its cryptography is inherently pellucid, i.e. there's no opaque locus in which to vest control of a private key. It may be possible to model an opaque locus via a complex cryptography gavotte performed by Alice and Bob (and maybe Charles, if you're into that kind of thing). Or maybe the solution lies in recruiting the services of an oracle to take advantage of the opacity it provides --- at the cost of introducing potential exploit scenarios and of losing the protection provided by a 100% cryptography solution.


Cheers

Graham

[thelonecrouton]

Just to give you something to chew on ... this is a very rough sketch of a thought experiment for an automated lottery that I don't yet know how to implement:

1. A global burn address is created and hard-coded into the app.
2. Wallet owners can send max(one) coin to the burn address, where it is irrecoverably lost.
3. Entrants are the list of the sending addresses of coins burned since the last draw.
4. Drawing occurs when prevBlock.nHeight mod 1440 == 0
5. Winners are the owners of the n addresses that are hex-within(prevblock.merklehash +/- a calculated range)
7. An amount of totalburnedcoins is added to the block reward.
8. totalburnedcoins - commission coins are paid to winning addresses in amounts according to a predetermined scale.
9. The house receives the predefined commission.

Even something as drop-dead simple as this is infeasible. As a distributed open source app, its cryptography is inherently pellucid, i.e. there's no opaque locus in which to vest control of a private key. It may be possible to model an opaque locus via a complex cryptography gavotte performed by Alice and Bob (and maybe Charles, if you're into that kind of thing). Or maybe the solution lies in recruiting the services of an oracle to take advantage of the opacity it provides --- at the cost of introducing potential exploit scenarios and of losing the protection provided by a 100% cryptography solution.


Cheers

Graham

Forgive me if I'm being dense, but there is no need surely to make the whole shebang decentralised. Could the example you gave be achieved by using the MN network as a consensus mechanism for choosing the locus/loci, then let that selected MN/those selected MNs do the things that need a central control point?

Much like Darksend - it's not really decentralised in terms of parallelism, it's just a method of sequential MN subset selection, the MNs selected do their bit discretely, the code for which they all possess and the data for which gets pulled from the network, then pass the process onwards until the result is achieved and subsequently broadcast to everyone.

The processing doesn't need to be completely distributed.

[AnotherNode]

Just to give you something to chew on ... this is a very rough sketch of a thought experiment for an automated lottery that I don't yet know how to implement:

1. A global burn address is created and hard-coded into the app.
2. Wallet owners can send max(one) coin to the burn address, where it is irrecoverably lost.
3. Entrants are the list of the sending addresses of coins burned since the last draw.
4. Drawing occurs when prevBlock.nHeight mod 1440 == 0
5. Winners are the owners of the n addresses that are hex-within(prevblock.merklehash +/- a calculated range)
7. An amount of totalburnedcoins is added to the block reward.
8. totalburnedcoins - commission coins are paid to winning addresses in amounts according to a predetermined scale.
9. The house receives the predefined commission.

Even something as drop-dead simple as this is infeasible. As a distributed open source app, its cryptography is inherently pellucid, i.e. there's no opaque locus in which to vest control of a private key. It may be possible to model an opaque locus via a complex cryptography gavotte performed by Alice and Bob (and maybe Charles, if you're into that kind of thing). Or maybe the solution lies in recruiting the services of an oracle to take advantage of the opacity it provides --- at the cost of introducing potential exploit scenarios and of losing the protection provided by a 100% cryptography solution.


Cheers

Graham

Forgive me if I'm being dense, but there is no need surely to make the whole shebang decentralised. Could the example you gave be achieved by using the MN network as a consensus mechanism for choosing the locus/loci, then let that selected MN/those selected MNs do the things that need a central control point?

Much like Darksend - it's not really decentralised in terms of parallelism, it's just a method of sequential MN subset selection, the MNs selected do their bit discretely, the code for which they all possess and the data for which gets pulled from the network, then pass the process onwards until the result is achieved and subsequently broadcast to everyone.

The processing doesn't need to be completely distributed.

I was thinking along the same lines.

Include randomness to the processing so its harder to pinpoint which nodes do what and to some degree when.  But essentially an application initiated from, lets say inside the wallet, is broadcast to the servicenode network. Available servienodes are chosen at random to handle the service that is requested of them.

If you think about it, as mentioned before, Apple and Google started an app store and now they are trying to add mobile payments. With spreadcoin you have a currency and you are adding an app store.

[gjhiggins]

Include randomness to the processing so its harder to pinpoint which nodes do what and to some degree when.

That's pretty much a necessity. The “stirring of the mix” brought by Mr Spread's innovative notion of creating an internal market for service node ownership is likely to make it more difficult to mount an eclipse attack [1, 2]. (apologies for PDFs, haven't had time to write up a tour d'horizon).

Interesting intro to paper [1] which references some of the issues pertinent to the operational aspects of running an overlay network (which is, apparently, the accepted architectural term for what we've been calling 2-tier).

Overlay networks facilitate the deployment of distributed application functionality at edge nodes without the need to modify existing network infrastructure. Overlays serve as a platform for many popular applications, including content distribution networks like BitTorrent, CoDeeN, and Coral, file-sharing systems like Gnutella, KaZaA, and Overnet/eDonkey and end-system multicast systems like ESM, Overcast, NICE, and CoolStreaming.

Moreover, a large number of research projects explore the use of overlays to provide decentralized network services. Robust overlays must tolerate participating nodes that deviate from the protocol. One reason is that the overlay membership is often open or only loosely controlled. Even with tightly controlled membership, some nodes may be compromised due to vulnerabilities in operating systems or other node software. To deal with these threats, overlay applications can rely on replication, self-authenticating content, Byzantine quorums, or Byzantine state machines to mask the failure or corruption of some overlay nodes.

[1] http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~mema/courses/cs264/papers/eclipse-infocom06.pdf
[2] http://eprint.iacr.org/2015/263.pdf

Cheers

Graham

[coins101]

Special investor incentivises (UK based) are aimed at getting capital into high-risk startups. So far this investment scheme promoted by the UK government has been used by over 1,100 start-ups, 32% in the high tech sector (for the 2012-2013 year, so probably double these figures).

The tax benefits break down as follows:

Income Tax Relief

Income tax relief currently equates to 50% of the initial investment.

There are no exclusions to this tax break and it can also be spread across the current and previous year’s income tax bill.

Invest £1,000 and you can take off £500 of your existing tax bill (works around effective tax rates, so need to take that into account, but applies to 50% of amount invested).

Capital Gains Tax Exemption

After year three, investors can sell their shares and any profit will be 100% exempt from capital gains tax.

CGT Reinvestment Relief

If you have other investments and you decide to cash these in to reinvest in a project that qualifies for the scheme, the capital gains on these initial investments will be subject to a 50% reduction on tax.

Loss relief

If the business fails, the investor can claim loss relief which can be offset against tax on other income.

The loss relief is offset at the level of the individual’s highest income tax rate. The amount invested (minus 50% to take into account the income tax relief) is multiplied by the tax rate to work out the amount that can be claimed.

Inheritance Tax Relief

100% Inheritance Tax relief against the value of the shares is granted two years after the date of the initial purchase.


Investments

1. Shareholders and directors can invest in the shares of a business.

1.1 A maximum annual investment of £100k is allowed by each investor, but the company cannot raise more than £150k

1.2 No minimum investment amount


Restrictions on Trade

The main restriction on what the business cannot do, that looks close, is:

"Financial activities such as banking, insurance, money-lending, debt-factoring, hire-purchase financing or any other financial activities"

I read this to mean, investing in a company that develops a currency is not allowed (banking and other financial activities), but carrying on the trade of developing software, apps that run on servicenodes, is ok.

Directors

Interestingly, directors (but not employees) can invest in the business and obtain the tax benefits. Directors are permitted to be paid for their services. This needs clarification with HMRC, which I will obtain.

Because the money is aimed at developing the business of building one or more apps:

1. There is no limit on the number of businesses that can independently develop apps that run on ServiceNodes.  So, one business can develop a software app for escrow; another can develop software apps for xyz, etc.

2. Investors cash can be used to buy SPR, BTC and DASH (or any crypto) in order to pay for development work and, I assume, to pay directors.


edit

The main thing I need to figure out is the interaction between opensource and commercial for profit ventures.

Please note

This is not tax or investment advice. Speak to a professional before you act on any of the above.

This is not an invitation to invest in anything. Its just my research on tax efficient use of capital for start-ups.

[coins101]

http://cointelegraph.com/news/113868/sf-startup-targets-b2b-global-payments-with-blockchain-rails-public-beta-release


This service looks great. B2B wire transfers, but with the blockchain replacing the wires.

But while I was thinking about it, I thought that SPR ServiceNodes offering escrow could be a much better solution.

What is really interesting are the figures they state on the global marketplace:

"The $24 trillion cross-border payments market is growing at a breakneck pace, expected to eclipse $54 trillion by 2022, despite a highly inefficient and expensive system in which businesses spend over $50 billion on wire and foreign exchange fees, wait up to seven days for transactions to complete, and have no visibility into the process."

$54trillion.  That's eye poppingly large.

[njs811]

We could use a new Ann soon. CRAVE is releasing MN soon. I would hate for spr to be left in the dust.

[e1ghtSpace]

We could use a new Ann soon. CRAVE is releasing MN soon. I would hate for spr to be left in the dust.

Ah man, I wish Mr. Spread was back. We were so close to releasing them. Maybe we should invest in CRAVE. I'm going to take a look.

[coins101]

We could use a new Ann soon. CRAVE is releasing MN soon. I would hate for spr to be left in the dust.

Ah man, I wish Mr. Spread was back. We were so close to releasing them. Maybe we should invest in CRAVE. I'm going to take a look.

JL sounding like its a bit scammy.

From my part, I'm not 100% keen on PoS coins. They have their positives but big issues and PoW is still the better overall approach.

Either way, the actual launch of masternodes has already been made by DRK/DASH.  Why would it matter if another project has them? It's what you do with them that counts.

I've been throwing ideas around and the current results of the survey help to define what to start with:



https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=976031.msg10656234#msg10656234

There are also things in the background that will surprise a few people when they take shape and are brought to the community.

I don't see that anything has really changed or why any other project is more likely to get ahead.

[e1ghtSpace]

We could use a new Ann soon. CRAVE is releasing MN soon. I would hate for spr to be left in the dust.

Ah man, I wish Mr. Spread was back. We were so close to releasing them. Maybe we should invest in CRAVE. I'm going to take a look.

JL sounding like its a bit scammy.

From my part, I'm not 100% keen on PoS coins. They have their positives but big issues and PoW is still the better overall approach.

Either way, the actual launch of masternodes has already been made by DRK/DASH.  Why would it matter if another project has them? It's what you do with them that counts.

I've been throwing ideas around and the current results of the survey help to define what to start with:



https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=976031.msg10656234#msg10656234

There are also things in the background that will surprise a few people when they take shape and are brought to the community.

I don't see that anything has really changed.

I don't like POS either.

POS aww damn, I hate POS. Maybe this coin will change my mind but I still don't like the fact that no money is going in (POW) but money is coming out (POS).

[njs811]

I also get the feeling that crave is a bit scammy. So be careful what you invest. I am ready for the new Ann. I feel that spr hasn't taken a first step yet since Mr. Spread left. I think the new Ann is our first step. We need the world to see SPR is alive and kicking.

[coins101]

I also get the feeling that crave is a bit scammy. So be careful what you invest. I am ready for the new Ann. I feel that spr hasn't taken a first step yet since Mr. Spread left. I think the new Ann is our first step. We need the world to see SPR is alive and kicking.

Fancy helping put together some write-ups for press articles / PR?

[njs811]

I also get the feeling that crave is a bit scammy. So be careful what you invest. I am ready for the new Ann. I feel that spr hasn't taken a first step yet since Mr. Spread left. I think the new Ann is our first step. We need the world to see SPR is alive and kicking.

Fancy helping put together some write-ups for press articles / PR?

Not my area of expertise but I am willing to pitch in wherever I can.

[coins101]

I also get the feeling that crave is a bit scammy. So be careful what you invest. I am ready for the new Ann. I feel that spr hasn't taken a first step yet since Mr. Spread left. I think the new Ann is our first step. We need the world to see SPR is alive and kicking.

Fancy helping put together some write-ups for press articles / PR?

Not my area of expertise but I am willing to pitch in wherever I can.

That's cool. We, and anyone else that wants to pitch in, can do it together. Then get feedback and general acceptance, or not, on articles from everyone else.

[gjhiggins]

Forgive me if I'm being dense, but there is no need surely to make the whole shebang decentralised. Could the example you gave be achieved by using the MN network as a consensus mechanism for choosing the locus/loci, then let that selected MN/those selected MNs do the things that need a central control point?

That's broadly what I meant by recruiting the services of an oracle primarily for the opacity it brings. But great care must be taken not to create holes in the abstraction that have security implications. I doubt I need to outline the potential for eclipse attacks on an altcoin that relies on just one hard-coded DNS seed node IP address. Eclipse attacks use the comparatively easier route of exploiting weakness in the architecture, not the cryptography. Hence my preference for a cryptography-based solution over one based on modifications to the architecture/system.

The processing doesn't need to be completely distributed.

For it to be credible, I think it must be distributed (not sure what “completely distributed” means). Otherwise, it's a compromise that weakens the architecture to a (usually incalculable) degree, so I prefer to view pseudo-oracles as stopgap solutions that are best avoided if possible.

I should note that I'm using coins101's 3B (Blockchain-Based Business) context to frame this (and my thinking), i.e. how might it work?

Cheers

Graham

[coins101]

3Bs (Blockchain Based Business).

That sounds pretty cool.  I think that would look great as a soundbite in some PR articles.

But, I'm not sure that's what I was thinking, exactly. Obviously the blockchain needs to be part of the equation, but the servicenodes are the processors of specific applications. Which servicenode(s) do the work required of them does need to be spread (pun intended) around the available nodes and for their participation and service they get paid.

I was taking my lead from Georgem and thelonecrouton on how this might work. Very briefly:

> User opens wallet (I suppose that's the best way to connect with the network) and sees a list of all services.

> User initiates one of the services and places an order by making a payment

> Wallet broadcasts the request around the network and one or more random servicenodes are selected to process the request. Each servicenode owner can choose to install a service or not.

> Servicenodes process transaction. When the transaction is complete, they send confirmation back to the wallet of the parties involved in the transaction, and a confirmation of the transaction for verification is sent to the bloackchain.  How much detail is sent to the blockchain depends on what the devs think is sufficient and what is acceptable taking into consideration bloat.

How does that fit with others view of servicenode apps?

But, I really, really like the 'Blockchain Based Business' label. Props.