[ANN] [XMG] MAGI | CPU mining | mPoW | mPoS | [MagiPay]

[111magic]

It's ok tittiecoiner. No worries you opinion is welcome here and its good to read some feedback. Indeed sometimes words from one person can be read different by the other person.
You don't have to be silence. Keep sharing your ideas with us. It can help to make Magi stronger and gives good ideas for solutions.

[joelao95]

hey guys,

i like this community and the MAGI coin, i'm here more than a year now and i will stay here a lot more years

do what you know is best for the coin Magic, i do believe Joelao wil find a solution.

greatings

xms

Magi Community Member

Thanks for that friend, but I am neither genius, nor smart. )

[joelao95]

I must say all posts are appreciated; bit running out of time, must catch up some sleep for early morning tomorrow, bit tough days. ill make some replies/thoughts to the prior posts I haven't yet, but I guess we've spoken many and people wait for fixes. The situation is very much clear to me; my posts seem to reiterate the idea that was there. I guess you all are clear of that. I am running my some own stuffs and have to make it over. This is something.  @Lightsplasher, the post is likely a solution but the actual happening might bring up some other issues, btw the future view on the value is interesting, the issue then is yes but could be likely no (there exists an equilibrium state that is maintained by the number of miners, which is in turn affected by the coin value), I'll post some thoughts.

[111magic]

I agree with Lightsplasher and tittiecoiner here.  In just the last few days we've seen nearly the entire block rewards vanish and or go to one large miner, at this point that large miner is single handedly controlling the coin rewards, that day has already come and we really should do something to fix it.

I really like the idea of greatly reducing PoW rewards and adding merged mining - and increasing PoS interest - that is very interesting to me and would be my choice of fixing this issue but undoubtedly this is a complex change to implement so let me bring up what I think is probably easier to do first.

The simplest solution I know of is to switch to full PoS right now and increase the interest rate to about 15% yearly to start.  The interest rate has to be high enough to make it worthwhile to invest in and save while also offsetting the potential mining loss that might have occurred.  I'll list the pros and cons as I see them.

Pros
1  Green!  Way more energy efficient, no more wasting electricity, just run your wallet once in a while.
2  More fair way of earning coins: rather than competing with large miners or bot farms, and using even more energy in the process, you now earn an equal percentage as everyone else based on your own balance.
3  This encourages holding and saving coins in your wallet, this can also be looked at as a con because some people will not spend their coins.  Maybe this increases demand?

Cons
1  No more mining which is a fun hobby for many people.  Suggestion, mine another coin and buy more XMG.  Win-Win!
2  PoS encourages saving and holding coins which might equal less trading and spending in commerce, then again, it might just increase demand while we fill our wallets.
3  More difficult for a newcomer to get into XMG because they would need to buy coins to get started.  This can be fixed with promotions, giveaways, better faucets, and let Magic111 do his thing!  This can be turned into a Pro very easily with the right marketing and ease of use!

Security - This is neither a Pro or Con with the current system as it is.  Hybrid PoW/Pos or full PoS are both secure when implemented correctly.  There are many pure PoS coins out there that are working as intended.

Assuming we did make this change, we then can focus more effort on expanding and adding new features and merchants without the fear of losing mining profits.  I mean, can you imagine a Magic111 unleashed to spread the wealth even more than he already is, that would be fun to watch!

Thanks for the trust and nice words Redrover.
Good to read the ideas from Lightsplasher, tittiecoiner, fragilefungi and you.
Because Iam not a coder just a marketing man the next question might be stupid.
But I think I can ask it here. Is there an option to improve Magi with higher PoS reward and PoW reward what only will generate coins with low hashrate. So I mean the unique blockreward will adjust to each miner. Like a intelligence blockreward system. If something like that could be done Magi has the advantage from PoS and the fun with mining without wasting electricity. In this case the intelligence blockreward system must be able to check the hashrate the miner uses. If it's too high it will block the miner from receiving coins.
Or is it too early for this kind of development?

[Lightsplasher]

...

The simplest solution I know of is to switch to full PoS right now and increase the interest rate to about 15% yearly to start.  The interest rate has to be high enough to make it worthwhile to invest in and save while also offsetting the potential mining loss that might have occurred.  I'll list the pros and cons as I see them.

...

Either way, we have a major problem right now and we need to fix it asap!  Waiting or having patience will not make this go away, it will get worse, so let’s fix it now!

Really nice posts everyone!  I agree that a quick and easy fix is going to full PoS and could buy some time to come up with other possibilities.  Bumping up the PoS rate to 15% or even 20% would be good imho - I've always been thinking that it should be higher.  With a lower number of coins out there I think we have room for growth and having a reasonably high PoS rate should help provide more volume on exchanges.

Right now on average we are producing 9.5 coins per PoW block so maybe 9.5 x 480 = 4560 new PoW coins plus PoS coins at .04 * 3307977 / 365 = 362 new coins per day.  (This is when the coin is not being molested by big miners) Jumping to as high as even 50% PoS would make only 4531 new coins per day and this would be less than what we are making now.  I've seen a lot of low interest rate PoS only coins come and go so there is a danger that if people turn to just holding their coins or find it uninteresting the market won't do so well.  (Is my math right?)

I would recommend adding a block reward cap to to limit inflation if we go higher on the rate.  Maybe a 5 coin cap so that at most 1440 x 5 = 7200 new coins can be created daily.  With the other features of PoS II I think this will work nice.  Without a cap at a higher rate the inflation may get out of control.  We can always focus efforts in a giveaway based on community donations if we want to do more to attract newer community members.  I'm glad people are talking this over, these kinds of decisions are important to the coins future and difficult to figure out - I'd recommend doing some type of vote to see how people feel about changing things.

[The Frisian]

Already waiting for 10 hours :

I apologize for the inconvenience this may have caused you. We are experiencing a delay when it comes
to processing BTC transactions especially with withdrawal requests. Our technical support team is already
aware of the issue and is currently working on a fix. We appreciate your patience as we get the coins moving
to you. Thank you kindly for your patience and understanding.

 
This is the real problem for accepting crypto as real money.

[111magic]

Already waiting for 10 hours :

I apologize for the inconvenience this may have caused you. We are experiencing a delay when it comes
to processing BTC transactions especially with withdrawal requests. Our technical support team is already
aware of the issue and is currently working on a fix. We appreciate your patience as we get the coins moving
to you. Thank you kindly for your patience and understanding.

 
This is the real problem for accepting crypto as real money.

That's right The Frisian. From what exchange did you received that message?

[The Frisian]

Already waiting for 10 hours :

I apologize for the inconvenience this may have caused you. We are experiencing a delay when it comes
to processing BTC transactions especially with withdrawal requests. Our technical support team is already
aware of the issue and is currently working on a fix. We appreciate your patience as we get the coins moving
to you. Thank you kindly for your patience and understanding.

 
This is the real problem for accepting crypto as real money.

That's right The Frisian. From what exchange did you received that message?

Craptsy, I tried once again, after one year not using, because of the always
returning problems.

[raetsch]

@joelao95
"kill" was a bit... hard spoken, but over time it will happen, without changing something.

what we need is something like a calculation of unique hashpower-relation to coin-creation.
means:
if someone (or a pool) comes with high hashing power and solves the block, the reward should be low.
but this is impossible to realize...

This is actually what's happening right now. But yes here is more or less an issue with reward adjustment.

no, i meant it that way, that not the net hashrate is taken for calculation, but the hashrate of the acutal solver. is this a miner with high hashrate (as a pool for example), the reward should be lower. is it a solominer, the reward should be higher. with an overall cap by the whole nethashrate. that is my idea.

[sleepdog]

The ideal adjustment should be done in a much nice way, and this is exactly where we should make a fix at. For example, whenever a big miner comes in, the reward goes down, and back to normal when he is leaving.

This is the best solution I feel. At the moment the reward responds quite slowly to changes in hashrate, allowing the big guys to make a lot of XMG before the reward falls. Is it possible to speed up the response, or is there an inherant problem here with the unreliability of the reported network hashrate and a need to average over time to get an accurate value?

[okae]

The ideal adjustment should be done in a much nice way, and this is exactly where we should make a fix at. For example, whenever a big miner comes in, the reward goes down, and back to normal when he is leaving.

This is the best solution I feel. At the moment the reward responds quite slowly to changes in hashrate, allowing the big guys to make a lot of XMG before the reward falls. Is it possible to speed up the response, or is there an inherant problem here with the unreliability of the reported network hashrate and a need to average over time to get an accurate value?

but this is just a partial solution, i mean if there is someone who just want to use his bulldozer to fu*k others, who will stop him?

and dont forget that there is some people that only want this, i mean that they dont want to be rewarded and get some XMG...sad but true.

[jkminkov]

if you want large miner POW frustration, I'll give it to you:

you should kill pools, rework magi daemon to accept up to 250Kh/s - roughly three i7 CPUs

centralization is bad for any coin, the more miners mine solo, more good for the network, the more miners mine at single pool the less secure is network, then we have botnet, botnet is bad and good, it's bad for POW miners as they get less for same Watt/hour invested, but it's good for POS miners as they purchase those POW blocks @ bellow cost Watt/hour(price they pay is less than if they payed for electricity to POW those blocks)
 
POW miners will either have to adapt or leave, I was POW @ bitcoin, then I adapted to mine scrypt and convert to/buy bitcoins, then adapted to mine x11 and convert to/buy bitcoins and at last I left, but I still have/use it!

there is a service that converts other coins to magicoin a few pages behind, adapt, use it!

coin was advertised as green, mine when you idle, make it so, kill pools, botnet can't create/manage hundreds of daemons that easily.

[tittiecoiner]

if you want large miner POW frustration, I'll give it to you:

you should kill pools, rework magi daemon to accept up to 250Kh/s - roughly three i7 CPUs

centralization is bad for any coin, the more miners mine solo, more good for the network, the more miners mine at single pool the less secure is network, then we have botnet, botnet is bad and good, it's bad for POW miners as they get less for same Watt/hour invested, but it's good for POS miners as they purchase those POW blocks @ bellow cost Watt/hour(price they pay is less than if they payed for electricity to POW those blocks)
 
POW miners will either have to adapt or leave, I was POW @ bitcoin, then I adapted to mine scrypt and convert to/buy bitcoins, then adapted to mine x11 and convert to/buy bitcoins and at last I left, but I still have/use it!

there is a service that converts other coins to magicoin a few pages behind, adapt, use it!

coin was advertised as green, mine when you idle, make it so, kill pools, botnet can't create/manage hundreds of daemons that easily.

What about P2Pool? I'm not very familiar with it, could it help?
If you need a local wallet in order to solo mine, it would make it impossible to use other low power devices (as has been discussed before).

[Erkallys]

I really love the fact that Magi is changing with all these interesting posts that were posted just before mine, but I'll try to show you my point of view :

For me, reducing mining reward will be a suicide for us, since people won't care about the diminution of the reward if the hashrate is too high because they will simply get more XMG if they put a few MH/s in a pool instead of waiting. Also, what attracted me was the mining. If it was fully PoS, I would never have bought some XMG. Like someone said before, this can be corrected by the giveaways, but if you aren't interested in a crypto, why would you check the thread 10 times a day like I do ? Also if we increase the PoS, price will rise, people will hold... Even if it's better for us (the long-date members), it won't be each time for a newcomer. I hope I've clear .

[tittiecoiner]

I really love the fact that Magi is changing with all these interesting posts that were posted just before mine, but I'll try to show you my point of view :

For me, reducing mining reward will be a suicide for us, since people won't care about the diminution of the reward if the hashrate is too high because they will simply get more XMG if they put a few MH/s in a pool instead of waiting. Also, what attracted me was the mining. If it was fully PoS, I would never have bought some XMG. Like someone said before, this can be corrected by the giveaways, but if you aren't interested in a crypto, why would you check the thread 10 times a day like I do ? Also if we increase the PoS, price will rise, people will hold... Even if it's better for us (the long-date members), it won't be each time for a newcomer. I hope I've clear .

Yeah, I get your point. The ideal situation would be that Magi has lots of miners who are not in for profit, don't care about a reward. Just to "help" protecting the network, processing transactions. Especially users from outside the crypto world. They would just run a simple script that starts a background process and use a small part of the CPU power (way below 50%, more like 5% or so). Something like Seti at Home which invites them to join a huge "Be you own bank" program. I guess that how Bitcoin started (not sure as I wasn't familiar with cryptos until 2014). The reward would be to do "something good to support something great". And in return they can download the wallet and receive some XMG, if they want to.

But I know that this is just dreaming and as much realistic like an island with lakes of beer instead of water.

[tittiecoiner]

Because Iam not a coder just a marketing man the next question might be stupid.
But I think I can ask it here.

It's not a shame to ask such questions, not even as a member of the Dev team.
I'm not a coder, too. Can only share ideas which people with coding skills might check if it's possible to realize or not.
If you have ideas, throw them in and let the coders explain if possible or not.

[tittiecoiner]

The ideal adjustment should be done in a much nice way, and this is exactly where we should make a fix at. For example, whenever a big miner comes in, the reward goes down, and back to normal when he is leaving. Lowering the maximum XMG rewards would make frustration to the big miner, but to all others as well;

True. It was a good idea and approach but meanwhile we all learned that even the system with the best and most honest intentions will be abused.
Just another example, let's say I would create my own coin using the same algo as Magi does (or another CPU only algo) and need miners. It would be easy t throw some big hashrate for a few days or weeks on Magi to make my own coin look more profitable.

Scrypt coins have similar problems with multipools. When they switch to a coin, the huge hashrate lets the difficulty go up considerably. The script checks all x minutes if a block has been found. If no block was found, the profit switch leaves the coin that remains with much lower total hashrate and a super high difficulty. In order to prevent this, some coins are using DGW and similar techniques.
Maybe you can adapt something like this to solve the reward problem?

[111magic]

We need to have 135 likes more to gave those 300 xmg`s away and then go on to the next step for 1000 xmg`s
So if you didnt like yet go to https://www.facebook.com/CoinMagi/ and like us

Getting closer, thats good!

[The Frisian]

And yes, like I thought, cryptsy is hacked and my coins are gone.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1237953.0

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/tag/cryptsy-hacked/

[Lightsplasher]

We need to have 135 likes more to gave those 300 xmg`s away and then go on to the next step for 1000 xmg`s
So if you didnt like yet go to https://www.facebook.com/CoinMagi/ and like us

Getting closer, thats good!

I believe magic111 and other members of the community have done an exemplary job building community through social media, contests and giveaways.  I think this is every bit as important as technical issues so long as the coin functions well enough not to create gross imbalances.  It is a very fine art to give coins away without encouraging the creation of sock puppet accounts, awarding the deceitful, or dumping large amounts of coins on people for trivial tasks.  This is an age old way of building community and growing demand for anything.  The companies that gave away some product for free, for example, giving out a free razor could build demand and sell a bunch more razor blades than the competition.  A job very well done in my mind magic111 and others.