[FIBRE] | 625k | [SuperNET] | FibreDark | FibreLock | FibreGateway | ZeroTrust |

[charptype]

We want to bring in the most talented developers, outside of crypto.
This requires capital.

I don't see how launching a new coin via an ICO is going to
be the best route to funding FIBRE development going forward ..
 
My concern is that by taking on two projects that FIBRE gets
lost in the shuffle as a consequence ..

Your work to date on FIBRE has built a following, attracted an investor base and
most importantly resulted in a significant appreciation in the value of FIBRE ..

I should think that there must be an easier way for you to monetize a portion
of that appreciation to finance the ongoing FIBRE development costs than to
ICO a new coin ..


Triff ..

I really agree with Triff. I've been totally in the fibre corner from the start, and there's no question the devs have brought this a long way making smart decisions. However, with fibrelight there is real reason for concern for existing fibre holders that fibrelight is going to seriously dilute the money going into fibre since it will be split within two currencies under the fibre brand. It also seems like putting the horse ahead of the cart. We're still at a 200k cap with 600k coins, which means price per coin is still relatively cheap even for the micro investor -- therefore there's no reason to think fibrelight is going to be much more attractive to the masses on the basis of coin supply alone. I understand funds need to be raised for block cypher, but like I said I agree with Triff and think other avenues for raising funds should be explored. Fibrelight as I understand it today makes me quite nervous.

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[killakem]

We want to bring in the most talented developers, outside of crypto.
This requires capital.

I don't see how launching a new coin via an ICO is going to
be the best route to funding FIBRE development going forward ..
 
My concern is that by taking on two projects that FIBRE gets
lost in the shuffle as a consequence ..

Your work to date on FIBRE has built a following, attracted an investor base and
most importantly resulted in a significant appreciation in the value of FIBRE ..

I should think that there must be an easier way for you to monetize a portion
of that appreciation to finance the ongoing FIBRE development costs than to
ICO a new coin ..


Triff ..

I really agree with Triff. I've been totally in the fibre corner from the start, and there's no question the devs have brought this a long way making smart decisions. However, with fibrelight there is real reason for concern for existing fibre holders that fibrelight is going to seriously dilute the money going into fibre since it will be split within two currencies under the fibre brand. It also seems like putting the horse ahead of the cart. We're still at a 200k cap with 600k coins, which means price per coin is still relatively cheap even for the micro investor -- therefore there's no reason to think fibrelight is going to be much more attractive to the masses on the basis of coin supply alone. I understand funds need to be raised for block cypher, but like I said I agree with Triff and think other avenues for raising funds should be explored. Fibrelight as I understand it today makes me quite nervous.

I Completely understand!! Please tell me some of these other avenues, we are open to anything! It would make me more nervous as an investor that the final stage on the roadmap that will bring the best features and innovations will not be funded.

I have sat there watching the donation addresses for weeks and nothing!! This makes me very nervous!! How long do you think Fibre will be current if the aggressive development slows down. I'm trying to make Fibre a top 20 altcoin!! For this we need substantial investment, also I have brought Fibre this far. I would never do anything to jeopardize all of the work I have put into Fibre.

This would also be another first in Crypto from the Fibre Team!! As most Devs get to this point and just create another coin, abandoning there original coin. As you know we are all about the community and will NEVER do his. The best solution was to create a sister coin that would act as Fibre's Silver, bringing with it huge investment, additional exposure, growth and a much larger pool of developers. We are talking about going from 2 developers to 10, we will have some of the best developers working for Fibre. Just having these guys in a room together they will come up with some crazy innovations.

Drop by IRC so we can discuss this in real time

Regards
Killa

[Krushang]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>UPDATE<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

We have confirmation that Fibre Multipool will be up tomorrow !

Prepare Your rigs for x11 , scrypt and sha256

https://twitter.com/_xpool_/status/519207529189212161

Amazing news!!

Can't get better then that!!!

My rigs are ready

Krushang

[Triffin]

I Completely understand!!
Please tell me some of these other avenues, we are open to anything!
It would make me more nervous as an investor that the final stage on the roadmap
that will bring the best features and innovations will not be funded.

I have sat there watching the donation addresses for weeks and nothing!!
This makes me very nervous!! How long do you think Fibre will be current if the aggressive development slows down.
I'm trying to make Fibre a top 20 altcoin!!
For this we need substantial investment ..

That's the thing with crypto ..

People are ( rightly cautious ) when asked to fund a new project via ICO ..
The developers obviously need funds to pay for development ..
But they can't 'price' the ICO at an adequate level on launch  ..
Investors worry that the devs will run off with the ICO funds etc etc ..  

It's only after the coin has survived the initial trading period and the
devs have delivered some progress on the white/paper roadmap in the OP
that the coin gains traction both by price appreciation and with the crypto community ..

This point of "acceptance" and intial price boost almost always coincides with the need
for additional funding to maintain the development momentum ..
Thus, the coin 'dies' when the funds aren't forthcoming ..
No one 'donates' and the devs can no longer justify the time and financial
commitment to further the development process ..

So, what creative way can we 'incentivize' current FIBRE holders to fund further development ??
Appeals to 'donate' are a waste of time as you've discovered ..

Is there a way to do a secondary offering ( ie  increase the FIBRE coin supply ) without requiring a 'hard fork' ??
Could you/we  do the equivalent of a "rights offering" ie sell a warrant now that would convert into
some number of FIBRE at a future date ??

I think you'll find that people will 'invest' vs 'donate' for the right incentive(s)

To my mind, this is the main development stumbling block for all the alt-coins that
have a shot at challenging BTC and needs to be figured out ..

I'm not a 'coder' so I have no concept of the technical difficulties in 'adjusting' the
float for a crypto currency after launch ..

Triff ..

[charptype]

I am not sure what the expenses are behind the scenes, or if the 10k for block cypher is the main funding hurdle. If the 10k is the largest obstacle I think you should consider issuing tiered loans with larger amounts returning more interest. It's clearly a tricky spot, but I think many of us recognize that fibre is poised to get very big very fast if we can just keep truckin'.

We want to bring in the most talented developers, outside of crypto.
This requires capital.

I don't see how launching a new coin via an ICO is going to
be the best route to funding FIBRE development going forward ..
 
My concern is that by taking on two projects that FIBRE gets
lost in the shuffle as a consequence ..

Your work to date on FIBRE has built a following, attracted an investor base and
most importantly resulted in a significant appreciation in the value of FIBRE ..

I should think that there must be an easier way for you to monetize a portion
of that appreciation to finance the ongoing FIBRE development costs than to
ICO a new coin ..


Triff ..

I really agree with Triff. I've been totally in the fibre corner from the start, and there's no question the devs have brought this a long way making smart decisions. However, with fibrelight there is real reason for concern for existing fibre holders that fibrelight is going to seriously dilute the money going into fibre since it will be split within two currencies under the fibre brand. It also seems like putting the horse ahead of the cart. We're still at a 200k cap with 600k coins, which means price per coin is still relatively cheap even for the micro investor -- therefore there's no reason to think fibrelight is going to be much more attractive to the masses on the basis of coin supply alone. I understand funds need to be raised for block cypher, but like I said I agree with Triff and think other avenues for raising funds should be explored. Fibrelight as I understand it today makes me quite nervous.

I Completely understand!! Please tell me some of these other avenues, we are open to anything! It would make me more nervous as an investor that the final stage on the roadmap that will bring the best features and innovations will not be funded.

I have sat there watching the donation addresses for weeks and nothing!! This makes me very nervous!! How long do you think Fibre will be current if the aggressive development slows down. I'm trying to make Fibre a top 20 altcoin!! For this we need substantial investment, also I have brought Fibre this far. I would never do or let anyone do anything to jeapardize all of the long days and late nights I have spent up until now.

[killakem]

I Completely understand!!
Please tell me some of these other avenues, we are open to anything!
It would make me more nervous as an investor that the final stage on the roadmap
that will bring the best features and innovations will not be funded.

I have sat there watching the donation addresses for weeks and nothing!!
This makes me very nervous!! How long do you think Fibre will be current if the aggressive development slows down.
I'm trying to make Fibre a top 20 altcoin!!
For this we need substantial investment ..

That's the thing with crypto ..

People are ( rightly cautious ) when asked to fund a new project via ICO ..
The developers obviously need funds to pay for development ..
But they can't 'price' the ICO at an adequate level on launch  ..
Investors worry that the devs will run off with the ICO funds etc etc ..  

It's only after the coin has survived the initial trading period and the
devs have delivered some progress on the white/paper roadmap in the OP
that the coin gains traction both by price appreciation and with the crypto community ..

This point of "acceptance" and intial price boost almost always coincides with the need
for additional funding to maintain the development momentum ..
Thus, the coin 'dies' when the funds aren't forthcoming ..
No one 'donates' and the devs can no longer justify the time and financial
commitment to further the development process ..

So, what creative way can we 'incentivize' current FIBRE holders to fund further development ??
Appeals to 'donate' are a waste of time as you've discovered ..

Is there a way to do a secondary offering ( ie  increase the FIBRE coin supply ) without requiring a 'hard fork' ??
Could you/we  do the equivalent of a "rights offering" ie sell a warrant now that would convert into
some number of FIBRE at a future date ??

I think you'll find that people will 'invest' vs 'donate' for the right incentive(s)

To my mind, this is the main development stumbling block for all the alt-coins that
have a shot at challenging BTC and needs to be figured out ..

I'm not a 'coder' so I have no concept of the technical difficulties in 'adjusting' the
float for a crypto currency after launch ..

Triff ..

Triffin where did you come from dude!! You are 100% spot on, you have laid out the point I was trying to make better than I did!

I have spoken with our lead developer Bobby6Killers about this at great lengths. To mint more coins would require a hard fork. It was also require everyone to sync to the new blockchain. This would also likely require some manual steps. Scary Stuff! Fibre has never required a hard fork because of our stringent release management procedures, we do not see this as a viable solution.

We have spent at a lot of time trying to find a solution to this problem not just for Fibre but for Crypto moving forward. FibreLite appears to be the best solution.

But like I have said Fibre is all about its community and if they do not want FibreLite  we will have to find an alternate solution.

[charptype]

I was trying to figure out how they could format an option loan of sorts. The rights offering almost works, but wouldn't they still need to do a hardfork to create additional coins to make the warrants whole?

I Completely understand!!
Please tell me some of these other avenues, we are open to anything!
It would make me more nervous as an investor that the final stage on the roadmap
that will bring the best features and innovations will not be funded.

I have sat there watching the donation addresses for weeks and nothing!!
This makes me very nervous!! How long do you think Fibre will be current if the aggressive development slows down.
I'm trying to make Fibre a top 20 altcoin!!
For this we need substantial investment ..

That's the thing with crypto ..

People are ( rightly cautious ) when asked to fund a new project via ICO ..
The developers obviously need funds to pay for development ..
But they can't 'price' the ICO at an adequate level on launch  ..
Investors worry that the devs will run off with the ICO funds etc etc ..  

It's only after the coin has survived the initial trading period and the
devs have delivered some progress on the white/paper roadmap in the OP
that the coin gains traction both by price appreciation and with the crypto community ..

This point of "acceptance" and intial price boost almost always coincides with the need
for additional funding to maintain the development momentum ..
Thus, the coin 'dies' when the funds aren't forthcoming ..
No one 'donates' and the devs can no longer justify the time and financial
commitment to further the development process ..

So, what creative way can we 'incentivize' current FIBRE holders to fund further development ??
Appeals to 'donate' are a waste of time as you've discovered ..

Is there a way to do a secondary offering ( ie  increase the FIBRE coin supply ) without requiring a 'hard fork' ??
Could you/we  do the equivalent of a "rights offering" ie sell a warrant now that would convert into
some number of FIBRE at a future date ??

I think you'll find that people will 'invest' vs 'donate' for the right incentive(s)

To my mind, this is the main development stumbling block for all the alt-coins that
have a shot at challenging BTC and needs to be figured out ..

I'm not a 'coder' so I have no concept of the technical difficulties in 'adjusting' the
float for a crypto currency after launch ..

Triff ..

[killakem]

I was trying to figure out how they could format an option loan of sorts. The rights offering almost works, but wouldn't they still need to do a hardfork to create additional coins to make the warrants whole?

I'm afraid so! This is the problem

That is the best solution, but the required hard fork makes it a no go!!

[loges]

I think a new coin is a great idea. Investors can buy in to an established dev team so an ico would be less worrisome to them. Fibre investors would know their coin will also be funded further by the gained funds. If anyone is worried about fibre being drowned out by a new project apparently hasn't seen the countless alts created every week. Maybe there could even be a burn process added to the ico that would have a few benefits. It would give other ways to buy in, it would give someone worried about fibre a chance to get in another great projects,  and it would make fans of fibre happy because it would make it even more rare.
 On top of all of this there would be 2 great coins with the added value of Block Cypher. 
 This team is taking their project to the top for sure.

[killakem]

I think a new coin is a great idea. Investors can buy in to an established dev team so an ico would be less worrisome to them. Fibre investors would know their coin will also be funded further by the gained funds. If anyone is worried about fibre being drowned out by a new project apparently hasn't seen the countless alts created every week. Maybe there could even be a burn process added to the ico that would have a few benefits. It would give other ways to buy in, it would give someone worried about fibre a chance to get in another great projects,  and it would make fans of fibre happy because it would make it even more rare.
 On top of all of this there would be 2 great coins with the added value of Block Cypher. 
 This team is taking their project to the top for sure.

Thanks! I want to turn Fibre into a top 10 Alt Coin maybe higher, but this will require substantial investment. We can do it, if you give us the power.

[Cryptosis]

I don't know the ends and outs & politics of running a successful coin but this dev team definitely does and if they think the best solution is to launch FibreLite then i say its a great idea. Wont have to worry about a hardfork effecting the value of Fibre either so it seems like a win to me, Give me some FibreLite.

[Triffin]

We can do it, if you give us the power.

Have I wandered off the 'reservation' or would something along the following be workable ??


Premise ..

FIBRE has gone as far as it can on it's development path with existing devs and funding ..
FIBRE has enjoyed a steady price rise and attracted a growing community as development milestones have been achieved ..
FIBRE requires substantial additional funding for continued development ..
FIBRE whales have been unwilling to 'donate' or otherwise cover the hard dollar cost of additional development ..

How to proceed ??

Solution ..

Merge current FIBRE into a new coin FIBRELITE via exchange run ICO
FIBRELITE starts life with all the current features/attributes of FIBRE ..
FIBRE will cease to exist ..
1 FIBRE gets exchanged/destroyed for X FIBRELITE during ICO ..  
Set the FIBRE/FIBRELITE exchange ratio at a slight premium to FIBRELITE ICO price ..
Offer enough FIBRELITE to accomodate the conversion of FIBRE to FIBRELITE and
to raise sufficient additional fresh capital to fund development roadmap ..

If you make the conversion/merger 'fair' to existing FIBRE holders then it would mean
moving forward with one dev team and one coin ( with adequate funding in place ) ..

Basically, the idea is to fold existing FIBRE value into the "new coin" at launch via ICO ..

Triff ..

[mikerutch]

Triff do you own any fibre?

[killakem]

We can do it, if you give us the power.

Have I wandered off the 'reservation' or would something along the following be workable ??


Premise ..

FIBRE has gone as far as it can on it's development path with existing devs and funding ..
FIBRE has enjoyed a steady price rise and attracted a growing community as development milestones have been achieved ..
FIBRE requires substantial additional funding for continued development ..
FIBRE whales have been unwilling to 'donate' or otherwise cover the hard dollar cost of additional development ..

How to proceed ??

Solution ..

Merge current FIBRE into a new coin FIBRELITE via exchange run ICO
FIBRELITE starts life with all the current features/attributes of FIBRE ..
FIBRE will cease to exist ..
1 FIBRE gets exchanged/destroyed for X FIBRELITE during ICO ..  
Set the FIBRE/FIBRELITE exchange ratio at a slight premium to FIBRELITE ICO price ..
Offer enough FIBRELITE to accomodate the conversion of FIBRE to FIBRELITE and
to raise sufficient additional fresh capital to fund development roadmap ..

If you make the conversion/merger 'fair' to existing FIBRE holders then it would mean
moving forward with one dev team and one coin ( with adequate funding in place ) ..

Basically, the idea is to fold existing FIBRE value into the "new coin" at launch via ICO ..

Triff ..

The premise is correct but FibreLite would coexist with Fibre!! Think of it as Fibrelite being Fibres silver.

[Cryptosis]

Triff do you own any fibre?

Wouldn't that destroy the price of fibre being it has a smaller coin cap thus higher exchange rate and fibrelite is meant to be a high coin cap with lower value? Am I correct on this. Wouldn't merging the two defeat the purpose of each other and would be no need for either to then exist?

[killakem]

Triff do you own any fibre?

Wouldn't that destroy the price of fibre being it has a smaller coin cap thus higher exchange rate and fibrelite is meant to be a high coin cap with lower value? Am I correct on this. Wouldn't merging the two defeat the purpose of each other and would be no need for either to then exist?

Correct!! We are talking about a separate coin!! The coins will not be merged for this exact reason.

[loges]

It's never been tried. I think it's worth the risk. You have a dev team that wants to raise revenue for improving their product and instead of trashing it and starting over on a new coin like most would do they want to try something never been done before. It will be a different coin with the same managers. The funding from the new coin will help fund Fibre to take it further. They can coexist.  There are many shitcoins. This team can create 2 great ones. I'm sure there are many great ideas that can come of having 2 coins working together run by the same dev team. Look at what sync was doing.

[charptype]

I had thought about Triffin's migration to fibrelight idea. He did a very good job laying out some workable logistics. I am strongly of the opinion that this is the way to proceed. I have been a top 15 holder for over a month now, and thus far the fibre team has done an excellent job. My understanding is that fibrelight was conceived primarily for the capital it may inject. If fiberlight is created in addition to fibre and not instead of it, fibre will be forever watered down and cheapened in my eyes. I think Triffin's suggestion should be given serious consideration. Fibre already has so many pieces in place, let's not get lost now.

We can do it, if you give us the power.

Have I wandered off the 'reservation' or would something along the following be workable ??


Premise ..

FIBRE has gone as far as it can on it's development path with existing devs and funding ..
FIBRE has enjoyed a steady price rise and attracted a growing community as development milestones have been achieved ..
FIBRE requires substantial additional funding for continued development ..
FIBRE whales have been unwilling to 'donate' or otherwise cover the hard dollar cost of additional development ..

How to proceed ??

Solution ..

Merge current FIBRE into a new coin FIBRELITE via exchange run ICO
FIBRELITE starts life with all the current features/attributes of FIBRE ..
FIBRE will cease to exist ..
1 FIBRE gets exchanged/destroyed for X FIBRELITE during ICO ..  
Set the FIBRE/FIBRELITE exchange ratio at a slight premium to FIBRELITE ICO price ..
Offer enough FIBRELITE to accomodate the conversion of FIBRE to FIBRELITE and
to raise sufficient additional fresh capital to fund development roadmap ..

If you make the conversion/merger 'fair' to existing FIBRE holders then it would mean
moving forward with one dev team and one coin ( with adequate funding in place ) ..

Basically, the idea is to fold existing FIBRE value into the "new coin" at launch via ICO ..

Triff ..

The premise is correct but FibreLite would coexist with Fibre!! Think of it as Fibrelite being Fibres silver.

[loges]

These guys have worked their asses off for weeks to get this where it is from nothing. They are on irc literally all waking hours. No one wanted to donate to a fund that was spelled out to further a project and now they want to give investors a way to do that and make money.
 I guess we could all just buy dreams of floating hotel rooms instead of investing in guys that actually want to create new things and move crypto forward.

[DFJ]

Couple thoughts.  If it matters, I work at a wall street bank and have an understanding of the relevant market dynamics.  Triff generally has the right of it.

1) Two separate coins is a bad idea.  Or at least its bad for Fibre.  The value of Fibre is essentially a claim on the future development work and adoption of Fibre.  If there are instead two coins by the same devs with the same ideas, you're not getting any synergies, you're just getting disorganization and dilution.  It would be like if Satoshi had come out with Bitcoin1 and Bitcoin2.  Doesn't make any sense.

2) Donations requests are also a bad solution.  It's the classic "tragedy of the commons" problem, where gain of the community and gain of the individual contributor are highly divergent.  It makes too much financial sense to sit back and hope others donate.

3) Given 1 & 2; it seems the best course is to either (A) hardfork Fibre to effectively create a new / larger "premine"; or (B) create a new coin that accomplishes the same thing by allowing Fibre holders to convert, with the end result that current Fibre holders have the same ownership levels in the new coin as they do in Fibre, except that the dev group has a greater share.

Possibly more creativity is needed for (3), but (1) & (2) are unworkable.