[SDC] ShadowCash | Welcome to the UMBRA

[pookielax31]

-snip-

today.

[00Smurf]

Rhino coding,

[koby]

-snip-

today.

What happened?

[Viper1]

I've got a few question about this coin and hopefully someone can give me some answers.

1. Where's the source? Looked at both threads, the official site, the wiki and either I'm completely blind or is it not open source?

2. What method does the PoS use? Like peercoin with coin age? Like NXT? Or like the newer BC PoS V2 or Reddcoin PoSV? Or maybe something unique?

3. Is the coin based on ZeroCash? From what I've read and with the upcoming implementation of zk-snarks it would appear it is.

4. Assuming it's based on ZeroCash, I'm wondering about:

4a. "They used a brand new technic called SNARK, which has certain downsides: for example, a large initial database of public parameters required to create a signature (more than 1 GB) and the significant time required to create a transaction (more than a minute)" - What does all this really mean and what, in terms of practical use, would it mean to users?

4b. "Another important note is about trusted setup in Zerocoin. In easy words the whole system is based on some secret values nobody should know (for example, this secret allows to make a double spend). How to acquire these values? ZC devs says: we can generate them and then "forget" OR we can implement the special algorithm to do in a distributed way at the system start (everybody know only his own part of the secret)." - does this issue also exist in Zerocash and (if Shadow uses it), ShadowCoin as well?

4c. "The proofs of Zerocash can be computed by a i7 single core 2.7 GHz CPU in a matter of 3 minutes" - What exactly are these "proofs" and again, what would this mean to regular users?

I really don't understand fully the difference between Zerocoin and ZeroCash etc so not sure if all this really would apply but maybe someone in the know could educate me.

Hi Viper

1. The project is open source, the link for the repo is on the ANN theres a little icon for Github. I can see how you would miss it though., we should probably add a link to it.  https://github.com/SDCDev/shadowcoin
2. Shadow is using coin weight/age. Any change to the PoS scheme will happen after zk.
3. ShadowSend is based on a combination of dual-key stealth addresses and zero knowledge proofs. The underlying technology in ZeroCash is zk-snarks, but the initial setup of the parameters in zerocash requires trust. Shadow is using its own zero knowledge scheme (proving a statement without revealing any information) and our setup doesn't require trust.
4a. In the WP they are referencing the initial parameters of Zerocash. Our system uses a different setup, so that issue only applies to ZC. All this translates to for the end user is that the ZC opts for a trusted setup.
4b. This is a non-issue because of 4a.
4c. https://self-evident.org/?p=995
Here's a detailed video covering the differences:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXU65XsLiFk
I've attached this pdf for zero knowledge in laymen's terms: http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~mkowalcz/628.pdf

Awesome, thanks for the details answers.  Yeah, now that I look back at the OP, I can see the source icon there.  I just assumed those were all some sort of wallet downloads lol

So I was just looking up "dual key stealth" and came across DarkWallet. Then I came across this post of yours which actually laid it out a bit more clearly for me.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=700087.msg8153845#msg8153845

Am I correct if I were to say that ShadowSend is an improved derivative of DarkWallet? Or maybe that's not really fair to say as I can't figure out who actually implemented what first. lol

So right now there seems to be I guess 4 anon "methods".  We've got Darkcoin which one could argue isn't all that trustless given you need the masternodes.  Then there's CN which, near as I can tell, is generally perceived as the only "true" anon implementation out there.  I found it interesting though that one of the CN guys seemed to be saying ZeroCash was a more advanced method although I'm not sure if he also meant better. And then there's some other coin that will remain nameless that seems to be implementing some derivative of CN which they claim will resolve at least the blockchain bloat issue of CN coins.  The Monero guys recently put out a white paper outlining some issues with CN that could potentially result in exploits.

So, if we assume that CN is the "best" currently despite some of it's issues, what makes ShadowSend better and what are some of the issues with it. i.e what are the currently known Pros and Cons.

Hey Viper,

We're actually working on a overview that will chart the pros and cons of each unique anon protocol. Approaches that don't use zero knowledge either mix or mask the transaction by using nodes, pools or group signatures. ZK protocols make the transactions invisible in a way that only the sender and receiver know about the transaction. It would be the same as thinking of paying someone in cash and not keeping a receipt. The only people who would know about the transaction is the buyer and the seller. The other approaches like mixing or group signatures could be looked at as paying by cash, but using something like western union or a money order to facilitate the transaction. Although the transaction is technically cash there would be a way to figure out and/or trace the transaction some harder than others.. ZK and it's variants are the closest thing to a cash transaction in cryptography.

A couple benefits of Shadow over CN would be a compressed blockchain vs bloated one. Shadow has a Simplified Payment Verification (SPV) system in place with ShadowLite (thinmode=1) that already helps reduce the bloat.

Ok, thanks.

[Coolstoryteller]

Ok, thanks.

No worries! Feel free to join us on IRC at #shadowcash. Devs are online pretty much 24/7.

[Bitcoines]

Buy with Shadow
Remember that ShadowCash is already one of the few coins that can be used to buy
anything where Bitcoin is accepted through https://www.coingateway.net/  ,
including Newegg, Dell, Overstock,  soon™ PayPal,  etc...

[Coolstoryteller]

Buy with Shadow
Remember that ShadowCash is already one of the few coins that can be used to buy
anything where Bitcoin is accepted through https://www.coingateway.net/  ,
including Newegg, Dell, Overstock,  soon™ PayPal,  etc...

[Viper1]

Had an odd bug with the windows wallet.  Completely new install, fired it up and it starts to download the blockchain. I rename the main address and write the info down.  I create a second address and write that info down.  Then I go to create a third address and when I click Ok, it just hangs so that I end up having to just kill the process. I start it back up again, it starts to download the blockchain and I go to try and create that third address again and the same thing happens. Tried a couple times and then gave up. Figured it might have something weird to do with the fact that it was a completely new install. So I started it up again and just left it running and waited for it to finally download the entire blockchain. Once it was done, I was able to create that third address without any problems.

[Coolstoryteller]

Had an odd bug with the windows wallet.  Completely new install, fired it up and it starts to download the blockchain. I rename the main address and write the info down.  I create a second address and write that info down.  Then I go to create a third address and when I click Ok, it just hangs so that I end up having to just kill the process. I start it back up again, it starts to download the blockchain and I go to try and create that third address again and the same thing happens. Tried a couple times and then gave up. Figured it might have something weird to do with the fact that it was a completely new install. So I started it up again and just left it running and waited for it to finally download the entire blockchain. Once it was done, I was able to create that third address without any problems.

Thanks for the bug report Viper. By chance do you have a Twitter account? I'll shoot you over a tip via the Twitter bot. xD

[Viper1]

Had an odd bug with the windows wallet.  Completely new install, fired it up and it starts to download the blockchain. I rename the main address and write the info down.  I create a second address and write that info down.  Then I go to create a third address and when I click Ok, it just hangs so that I end up having to just kill the process. I start it back up again, it starts to download the blockchain and I go to try and create that third address again and the same thing happens. Tried a couple times and then gave up. Figured it might have something weird to do with the fact that it was a completely new install. So I started it up again and just left it running and waited for it to finally download the entire blockchain. Once it was done, I was able to create that third address without any problems.

Thanks for the bug report Viper. By chance do you have a Twitter account? I'll shoot you over a tip via the Twitter bot. xD

Nope, I don't have a twitter account.  Keep meaning to get one "just cause" but it's not something I can see myself using that much.

[Coolstoryteller]

Had an odd bug with the windows wallet.  Completely new install, fired it up and it starts to download the blockchain. I rename the main address and write the info down.  I create a second address and write that info down.  Then I go to create a third address and when I click Ok, it just hangs so that I end up having to just kill the process. I start it back up again, it starts to download the blockchain and I go to try and create that third address again and the same thing happens. Tried a couple times and then gave up. Figured it might have something weird to do with the fact that it was a completely new install. So I started it up again and just left it running and waited for it to finally download the entire blockchain. Once it was done, I was able to create that third address without any problems.

Thanks for the bug report Viper. By chance do you have a Twitter account? I'll shoot you over a tip via the Twitter bot. xD

Nope, I don't have a twitter account.  Keep meaning to get one "just cause" but it's not something I can see myself using that much.

I can't blame you there.. I finally made one a few months ago lol. It does make it easier to keep up with news within the industry, esp when you're AFK.

[pawlo74]

Had an odd bug with the windows wallet.  Completely new install, fired it up and it starts to download the blockchain. I rename the main address and write the info down.  I create a second address and write that info down.  Then I go to create a third address and when I click Ok, it just hangs so that I end up having to just kill the process. I start it back up again, it starts to download the blockchain and I go to try and create that third address again and the same thing happens. Tried a couple times and then gave up. Figured it might have something weird to do with the fact that it was a completely new install. So I started it up again and just left it running and waited for it to finally download the entire blockchain. Once it was done, I was able to create that third address without any problems.

Thanks for the bug report Viper. By chance do you have a Twitter account? I'll shoot you over a tip via the Twitter bot. xD

Nope, I don't have a twitter account.  Keep meaning to get one "just cause" but it's not something I can see myself using that much.

I can't blame you there..  finally made one a few months ago lol. It does make it easier to keep up with news within the industry, esp when you're AFK.

That's true, I think the same LOL

[LongAndShort]

Rhino coding,


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More like

[Schild_]

Haaaaaannnnn. Me neither!

Rhino coding,


~snip

More like

I'd rather wish Ryno would be the duracell rabbit.

[dadon]

Would you rather a product that worked or a product that didn't? take your time Rhino your doing great and the price is nice and stable as usual it will take off as soon as word gets out about the next release.

[Sparood]

Would you rather a product that worked or a product that didn't? take your time Rhino your doing great and the price is nice and stable as usual it will take off as soon as word gets out about the next release.

In the mean time get more SDC

[dadon]

Would you rather a product that worked or a product that didn't? take your time Rhino your doing great and the price is nice and stable as usual it will take off as soon as word gets out about the next release.

In the mean time get more SDC

I'm happy with the amount i hold everyone else should but.

[Schild_]

I can be excited for christmas without it meaning I want the elfe in the factory to work faster.

 

[Coolstoryteller]

Other coin devs finding out about Shadow's tech:

[Cornett]

Other coin devs finding out about Shadow's tech:

 JUST LOL !!