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Author Topic: bitcoincard.org  (Read 27193 times)
MoonShadow
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May 01, 2012, 09:05:54 PM
 #101

The project is awesome  Shocked

The only problem is that it's useful only if a lot of people already uses it otherwise it's pretty useless.
And admitting they have right the very difficult technical part it will be difficult to bootstrap it's use... or at least it should be very expensive...

I disagree, the mesh texting feature makes such a device useful for me independently of whether or not it can transact in bitcoin.  Like I said, I want 6 right now for my wife & kids.  Way cheaper to give my kids each one of these to let them go play than give each of them a cell phone with service.  With android phones (and my ham radio privileges) I can give each of my kids a cell phone that uses APRS to tell me where they are, and I can call any one of them home at will.  My daughter can take my cell phone with her to her friends house, and I can track her progress with extreme accuracy.  But that means that 1) I can't use my cell phone in the meantime and 2) I have to pay for that data plan.  With a wallet card sized device, I could do some very similar things without the need of the costly data plan (granted, I'd be paying for one such plan anyway, but not six) or the expensive hardware (i.e. the android smartphone required to run the APRS app).  If my wallet card couldn't see her card because there wasn't yet enough such cards in my neighborhood to support a mesh, I'd still be able to get into my car and drive a couple of blocks to locate her signal without needing to actually see her.  I could get a seventh and pin it to my dog's collar, and find him the same way whenever he got out of the yard.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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May 02, 2012, 07:24:40 AM
 #102

I disagree, the mesh texting feature makes such a device useful for me independently of whether or not it can transact in bitcoin.

What I was trying to say is that the mesh networking, for working correctly and being useful, needs peers everywhere.
So, the meshing capabilities of the device will be unfunctional until this (wonderful) device will be widespread.

Articoli bitcoin: Il portico dipinto
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May 02, 2012, 01:37:59 PM
 #103

I disagree, the mesh texting feature makes such a device useful for me independently of whether or not it can transact in bitcoin.

What I was trying to say is that the mesh networking, for working correctly and being useful, needs peers everywhere.
So, the meshing capabilities of the device will be unfunctional until this (wonderful) device will be widespread.

Yes, but if the device is cheap enough, there are uses for the device that would drive adoption that does not necessarily depend upon a critical mass to support mesh networking.  That is my point, I have personal uses for a number of such devices that would encourage me to deliberately create a mesh network within my own family.  Get enough of those, and a critical mass is created regardless.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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May 02, 2012, 02:02:22 PM
 #104

Yes, but if the device is cheap enough, there are uses for the device that would drive adoption that does not necessarily depend upon a critical mass to support mesh networking.
I agree perfectly but my understanding is that without mesh support that device would be more or less useless.

Quote
That is my point, I have personal uses for a number of such devices that would encourage me to deliberately create a mesh network within my own family.
I'm sorry I miss how the mesh network in your home would be useful for you:

1) for being functional, the bitcoincard needs a POS that serves as a gateway between your cards (any of them) and the Internet: you can't use other ones because bitcoincard uses radio frequency and not wifi or other widely deployed technology

2) when you give the card to your daughter and she walks away from your home it become useless because the mesh network is not operable any more

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May 02, 2012, 02:17:38 PM
 #105

Yes, but if the device is cheap enough, there are uses for the device that would drive adoption that does not necessarily depend upon a critical mass to support mesh networking.
I agree perfectly but my understanding is that without mesh support that device would be more or less useless.

Quote
That is my point, I have personal uses for a number of such devices that would encourage me to deliberately create a mesh network within my own family.
I'm sorry I miss how the mesh network in your home would be useful for you:

1) for being functional, the bitcoincard needs a POS that serves as a gateway between your cards (any of them) and the Internet: you can't use other ones because bitcoincard uses radio frequency and not wifi or other widely deployed technology

I'd likely buy a usb dongle to serve this purpose in my own home, in order to keep my own cards up to date.

Quote

2) when you give the card to your daughter and she walks away from your home it become useless because the mesh network is not operable any more


Only if she travels beyond a single hop range, and again, if I know generally where she is going (say the mall or a public park) I don't need to know precisely where to meet her if I need to drive to pick her up.  I couldn't text her from the house if she was beyond the single hop range, but if I sent a text like "I'm on my way to pick you up, we're going to grandma's, be ready" the text would arrive at her card as soon as I were close enough for a single hop to work.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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May 02, 2012, 02:31:35 PM
 #106

Only if she travels beyond a single hop range, and again, if I know generally where she is going (say the mall or a public park) I don't need to know precisely where to meet her if I need to drive to pick her up.  I couldn't text her from the house if she was beyond the single hop range, but if I sent a text like "I'm on my way to pick you up, we're going to grandma's, be ready" the text would arrive at her card as soon as I were close enough for a single hop to work.

Why not a simple SMS instead?
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May 02, 2012, 05:41:23 PM
 #107

Only if she travels beyond a single hop range, and again, if I know generally where she is going (say the mall or a public park) I don't need to know precisely where to meet her if I need to drive to pick her up.  I couldn't text her from the house if she was beyond the single hop range, but if I sent a text like "I'm on my way to pick you up, we're going to grandma's, be ready" the text would arrive at her card as soon as I were close enough for a single hop to work.

Why not a simple SMS instead?

If you had read the thread, I mentioned that I can do that all now if I'm willing to pay for a cell phone & service, but I can avoid such charges with a meshable device.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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May 07, 2012, 12:12:57 AM
 #108

Their design includes a trusted server, which should NOT be necessary for bitcoins.
Well, when you can design a credit-card sized device that can hold and process the entire Bitcoin blockchain, you let us know!  Wink
That is not necessary, a smartcard just needs to sign transactions and updating the future multi-gig blockchain on that vapor devices connection is not gonna happen anyway.

Cheap and sexy Bitcoin card/hardware wallet, buy here:
http://BlochsTech.com
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May 17, 2012, 10:35:40 AM
 #109

All the advertising shit at the end pisses me off. I hope that is strictly opt-in, and can be disabled. However, I recognize that that is probably the only thing that will sell it to big businesses.  Undecided

Same here... I was happy until the part about when they track people buying stuff... That killed it for me!
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May 17, 2012, 12:37:00 PM
 #110

Their design includes a trusted server, which should NOT be necessary for bitcoins.
Well, when you can design a credit-card sized device that can hold and process the entire Bitcoin blockchain, you let us know!  Wink
That is not necessary, a smartcard just needs to sign transactions and updating the future multi-gig blockchain on that vapor devices connection is not gonna happen anyway.

Plus the smartphone will be the platform of the future.  Android smartphones are now as cheap as $149 on prepaid plan without contract and there are prepaid plans as cheap as $30 per month.

Things like Google wallet & NFC are going to be the next killer app (NFC is useful for more than just payments it can replace membership cards, loyalty cards, metro cards, basically every piece of plastic in your wallet).

I love my SamSung Galaxy Nexus.  Google gives you $10 free to put on a prepaid "card" in the wallet.  I bought a soda & hotdog from 7-11 by tapping my phone.  Pretty cool tech that just works.  This will get people use to the idea of digital "money" and the smartphone as the payment platform.

While Google may never support Bitcoin other apps can use NFC hardware.  If 7-11 wanted to accept Bitcoins tomorrow the hardware is already in place in their 30,000 stores.  All they need is the backend software to process, verify, and route a signed Bitcoin tx received by NFC.

NFC & Smartphones will be gateway to mass usage of Bitcoin.  NFC can also be used point to point.  Say your friend owes you $10.  You make a payment request for 2 BTC (pretty much 2 or 3 clicks in a smartphone wallet app).  You tap your phone against his.  He gets the payment request his wallet app opens up showing the amount, note, address.  He enters his pin and your get a the 0-confirm notification in seconds.
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May 26, 2012, 09:11:56 PM
 #111

A bunch of us are flying out to Austria next month to see the product in action.

Will keep everyone updated

Hello Yankee,


Any news about this device?

MoonShadow
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May 26, 2012, 09:22:43 PM
 #112

Their design includes a trusted server, which should NOT be necessary for bitcoins.
Well, when you can design a credit-card sized device that can hold and process the entire Bitcoin blockchain, you let us know!  Wink
That is not necessary, a smartcard just needs to sign transactions and updating the future multi-gig blockchain on that vapor devices connection is not gonna happen anyway.

Plus the smartphone will be the platform of the future.  Android smartphones are now as cheap as $149 on prepaid plan without contract and there are prepaid plans as cheap as $30 per month.

Smartphones are just computers that are always accessible to the Internet.  Android can be, and has been, hacked.  No thanks.  I have an android phone and won't keep more than petty cash on it.  I want a device that is inherently more secure than an operating system with continuous Internet access that can still transact in a relatively conveint fashion.  I can have a perfectly secure savings account printed onto archival paper & in my safe that I can send money to all day, but I can't readily use that on a normal basis though.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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May 26, 2012, 10:12:03 PM
 #113

A bunch of us are flying out to Austria next month to see the product in action.

Will keep everyone updated

Hello Yankee,


Any news about this device?

News will arrive around June 10-15th  Wink
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May 26, 2012, 11:20:16 PM
 #114

Thanks Smiley

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May 27, 2012, 12:33:17 AM
 #115

Smartphones are just computers that are always accessible to the Internet.  Android can be, and has been, hacked.  No thanks.  I have an android phone and won't keep more than petty cash on it.  I want a device that is inherently more secure than an operating system with continuous Internet access that can still transact in a relatively conveint fashion.  I can have a perfectly secure savings account printed onto archival paper & in my safe that I can send money to all day, but I can't readily use that on a normal basis though.

How are you going to do a Bitcoin tx when neither party has access to the internet?

No reason for a smartphone to have internet when you don't want it to.  "Airplane mode" disables all radios at the device level.  Kinda hard to be online when you have no signal. Wink
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May 27, 2012, 03:24:37 AM
 #116

Smartphones are just computers that are always accessible to the Internet.  Android can be, and has been, hacked.  No thanks.  I have an android phone and won't keep more than petty cash on it.  I want a device that is inherently more secure than an operating system with continuous Internet access that can still transact in a relatively conveint fashion.  I can have a perfectly secure savings account printed onto archival paper & in my safe that I can send money to all day, but I can't readily use that on a normal basis though.

How are you going to do a Bitcoin tx when neither party has access to the internet?


<sigh>

Do some research on the matter.

Quote

No reason for a smartphone to have internet when you don't want it to.  "Airplane mode" disables all radios at the device level.  Kinda hard to be online when you have no signal. Wink

Unless you intend to carry a second phone to actually make calls, texts or use the Internet while mobile; you're going to turn that mode off eventually.  I'm not concerned about a live hacker taking my money, I'm concerned about a worm or virus that steals android wallets.  That only takes a few seconds.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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May 27, 2012, 06:20:09 AM
 #117

http://www.servalproject.org/  they have mesh networking on android....Ive actually used it in Melbourne Cheesy

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May 27, 2012, 09:15:45 AM
 #118

http://www.servalproject.org/  they have mesh networking on android....Ive actually used it in Melbourne Cheesy

This looks promising!

I notice they don't have a bitcoin donation address yet though. Sad

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May 27, 2012, 11:47:13 AM
 #119

What will stop people from going around with a Proxmark and cloning those cards?
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May 27, 2012, 01:19:11 PM
 #120

What will stop people from going around with a Proxmark and cloning those cards?

What is a proxmark?

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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