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Author Topic: [ANN][SLR] SolarCoin | PoW to PoS v. 2.0 | Solar Proof of Generation (§1 = 1MWh)  (Read 432611 times)
y_virtual
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October 01, 2015, 11:05:10 AM
 #2221

Hi, Why staking taking so looooong ? I am waiting since 2 days (fresh install and rescan) ...still "in sync"mode.
On the mac version, did anyone succeed to stake ?
I am about to resign staking if i always have to care about switching off my wallet and wait 2 days long before it kicks in.

This is related to the issue I posted above:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=785257.msg12568888#msg12568888
Difficulty should self-adjust according to the current number of staking coins at any given moment, so that the block rate meets the 1 block per minute target, as specified for the SolarCoin blockchain. Right now, we get 4-5 blocks per hour, which corresponds to a ~12 times higher difficulty than expected - and not even sure if difficulty actually adjusts at all. So we wait 12 times longer than we should.

I think what onsightit has already tried to explain is that time will make this issue pass away.
The coins will slowly ''split''up and there will be a lot more staking coins. Right now everyone is either just staked a block or is waiting to get their balance back in spendable to stake again. That being said my coins have been ''waiting''since over 20 hours. I guess as soon as i have 500 confirms part of my coins will start splitting up and staking again. give it a few days Smiley

No, explanations are not enough here. Moreover, the explanations given only prove that the more wallets/coins will be staking, the difficulty will go up. It is clear that the functionality that must be functional to meet the Solar Coins specs is not working properly. This functionality is built in to make the blockchain independent of the number of wallets online, coins staking, etc. In PoW, even if there is one miner left and regardless of the miner's hashrate, the Difficulty Adjustment algo will guarantee a block rate of 1 block per minute.

Assuming that we are going to PoST and there will be no return to PoW for no matter what reason, then we have ONLY two options available:
1. Difficulty Adjustment algo in the SolarCoin PoST implementation is coded/tested/adjusted properly to meet the SolarCoin target block rate specification of 1block/minute
or
2. SolarCoin target block rate specification is changed to reflect the inability of the current PoST implementation to deal with situations like the one we have now.

The difficulty won't go up necessarily with more wallets etc. The Stake Time is in Play and is a Weighted measure of who is on the network staking. Any wallet can hash out "proof-of-stake" = 0.00024414 Difficulty this is not the trigger it is only after stake time is met and weight is rewarded vs other wallets. Making the Difficulty go down to get more blocks is not the problem. It was the 1.5 wallets and people not switching over. But it may also be that now my wallet is stuck for 510 confirms for 6 days and I can not participate in helping the network or get my 60,000 SLR out of Stake for 5 cents worth of SLR.

I can't stake anymore since the start of PoST. All my coins got Staked for the sum of 5 SLR. They will not confirm for another 100+ at this point 6 days out. The kinks get ironed out and confirms will be lowered is what was stated a while back. So splitting the stakes now is crucial but I don't think I can compete with the big wallets out there so I have to shut off since I can't stake anyways until 100+ more confirms. So that may be what is happening, people are locked in and shut off their wallets. I know I did the last 2 days.

Let me ask this: what should be the minimum requirements for a number of participating coins in how many wallets for the blockchain to move?
Then next question - should the blockchain move at 1 block/minute in any case when these minimum parameters are met, or in just certain very specific conditions?
What I see now is a very real situation when no matter how many wallets get added or turned off, the block rate stays at 4-5 blocks/hour. Are the minimum conditions we apparently don't know not met? Or is this a very specific condition - yet so real that we can't get it more real than that?
Edit: what if all 1.5 wallets get turned off, only 3 of them decide to upgrade to 2.0.5 today, also 7 of the 2.0.5 wallets decide to turn of because their balances have already staked and they are "doing nothing". Is it real? Yes. Do we have "more" wallets? Who knows? Why should we depend on these to have the requirements met? What all this means is that the current implementation of PoST on the SolarCoin blockchain is not secure, since it depends on conditions it was not meant to depend on.

I repeat the issue from a tester's point of view - we have the specs - 1block/minute, with no minimum requirements or as a matter of fact no any other requirements given.
Did we have 1 block/minute with the minimum resources (1 miner) in PoW? Yes.
Do we have anything close to 1 block/minute at any given time so far in PoST? No.
Issue stays.
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TooQik
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October 01, 2015, 01:59:21 PM
 #2222

I repeat the issue from a tester's point of view - we have the specs - 1block/minute, with no minimum requirements or as a matter of fact no any other requirements given.

I don't mean to sound picky, but 1 block/minute is the target, not the specs. The specs define how the target is met.

I agree with you in that if the target for the network is meant to be 1 block per minute, then currently the target is not being met. Given that the target is defined by a mathematical equation, it should be straight forward to determine why the current rate of block discovery is lower than the required target and adjust accordingly.

I'm sure that there is a document somewhere that outlines the technical details of the SolarCoin implementation of PoST. If so, can someone please point me in the right direction on where to find it? I wouldn't mind having a read about the specifics on how it all should work and the mechanisms behind it. Apologies in advance if this is already in plain sight and I've overlooked it.
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October 01, 2015, 04:49:49 PM
 #2223

Any updates on the The Financing of Renewable Energy Projects", Cairo Egypt, this October 1st

Was wondering how the crowd reacted to Solarcoin etc?

exciting times ahead!!!

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October 01, 2015, 05:46:22 PM
 #2224

Hi, Why staking taking so looooong ? I am waiting since 2 days (fresh install and rescan) ...still "in sync"mode.
On the mac version, did anyone succeed to stake ?
I am about to resign staking if i always have to care about switching off my wallet and wait 2 days long before it kicks in.

This is related to the issue I posted above:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=785257.msg12568888#msg12568888
Difficulty should self-adjust according to the current number of staking coins at any given moment, so that the block rate meets the 1 block per minute target, as specified for the SolarCoin blockchain. Right now, we get 4-5 blocks per hour, which corresponds to a ~12 times higher difficulty than expected - and not even sure if difficulty actually adjusts at all. So we wait 12 times longer than we should.

I think what onsightit has already tried to explain is that time will make this issue pass away.
The coins will slowly ''split''up and there will be a lot more staking coins. Right now everyone is either just staked a block or is waiting to get their balance back in spendable to stake again. That being said my coins have been ''waiting''since over 20 hours. I guess as soon as i have 500 confirms part of my coins will start splitting up and staking again. give it a few days Smiley

No, explanations are not enough here. Moreover, the explanations given only prove that the more wallets/coins will be staking, the difficulty will go up. It is clear that the functionality that must be functional to meet the Solar Coins specs is not working properly. This functionality is built in to make the blockchain independent of the number of wallets online, coins staking, etc. In PoW, even if there is one miner left and regardless of the miner's hashrate, the Difficulty Adjustment algo will guarantee a block rate of 1 block per minute.

Assuming that we are going to PoST and there will be no return to PoW for no matter what reason, then we have ONLY two options available:
1. Difficulty Adjustment algo in the SolarCoin PoST implementation is coded/tested/adjusted properly to meet the SolarCoin target block rate specification of 1block/minute
or
2. SolarCoin target block rate specification is changed to reflect the inability of the current PoST implementation to deal with situations like the one we have now.

The difficulty won't go up necessarily with more wallets etc. The Stake Time is in Play and is a Weighted measure of who is on the network staking. Any wallet can hash out "proof-of-stake" = 0.00024414 Difficulty this is not the trigger it is only after stake time is met and weight is rewarded vs other wallets. Making the Difficulty go down to get more blocks is not the problem. It was the 1.5 wallets and people not switching over. But it may also be that now my wallet is stuck for 510 confirms for 6 days and I can not participate in helping the network or get my 60,000 SLR out of Stake for 5 cents worth of SLR.

I can't stake anymore since the start of PoST. All my coins got Staked for the sum of 5 SLR. They will not confirm for another 100+ at this point 6 days out. The kinks get ironed out and confirms will be lowered is what was stated a while back. So splitting the stakes now is crucial but I don't think I can compete with the big wallets out there so I have to shut off since I can't stake anyways until 100+ more confirms. So that may be what is happening, people are locked in and shut off their wallets. I know I did the last 2 days.

Let me ask this: what should be the minimum requirements for a number of participating coins in how many wallets for the blockchain to move?
Then next question - should the blockchain move at 1 block/minute in any case when these minimum parameters are met, or in just certain very specific conditions?
What I see now is a very real situation when no matter how many wallets get added or turned off, the block rate stays at 4-5 blocks/hour. Are the minimum conditions we apparently don't know not met? Or is this a very specific condition - yet so real that we can't get it more real than that?
Edit: what if all 1.5 wallets get turned off, only 3 of them decide to upgrade to 2.0.5 today, also 7 of the 2.0.5 wallets decide to turn of because their balances have already staked and they are "doing nothing". Is it real? Yes. Do we have "more" wallets? Who knows? Why should we depend on these to have the requirements met? What all this means is that the current implementation of PoST on the SolarCoin blockchain is not secure, since it depends on conditions it was not meant to depend on.

I repeat the issue from a tester's point of view - we have the specs - 1block/minute, with no minimum requirements or as a matter of fact no any other requirements given.
Did we have 1 block/minute with the minimum resources (1 miner) in PoW? Yes.
Do we have anything close to 1 block/minute at any given time so far in PoST? No.
Issue stays.

Yes the block times are not being met because a safegaurd was put into place 500 confirms. This is what may have diminished the block times since there are less than 500 participants. Each got reward and their largest stakes were first so all the coin is locked down now. We have hit a paradox in the Time aspect of PoST. Not sure if the test net had this issue though but stopping and starting the blockchain can bring it to a screeching halt also. Once stuck it stays stuck and slow.

Once your wallet is staked there is no requirement to leave it open until the 500 block is confirmed. It is doing nothing the stake happened and all coin is reserved and it is not functioning other than a peer on the network. It takes 8 or more hours just to have other coin mature so it is a long drawn out process. To top it off the coin was sneaked into PoST and this may have also doomed it to a screeching halt, only the few wallets that happened to have 2.0.1 running would gain an edge on the entire network forever, and this was no accident. The payouts were told to be larger too so these wallets were going to benefit greatly by the sneak into PoST. When those blocks had to be orphaned the network came to a screeching halt.
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October 01, 2015, 06:07:07 PM
 #2225

That would seem correct.  The blockchain has not stalled completely YET, but it is badly stuck.

I think the 500 confirms was to ensure an 8 hour turnover of staked blocks - but maybe the 8 hours (8.333r) is a  consequence of the 500 blocks.  Whatever the reason we are stuck mostway up the up a hill with minimal movement now. 

I am still showing a large chunk (35%) of unstaked coins too - so they are no help.  I was hoping they would come into play as the blocks marched on, but 6 days in they are still in limbo.

As of writing, we are at 3 blocks per hour and falling....  The question is how to get out of this Gordian Knot without restarting the chain again.  The parameters appear to be trying to adjust, but as this only takes place every hour (or is that 60 blocks?)

It is hardly a tidy, self-balancing situation.  The danger is that we are, frankly, wasting  'energy' / money now - running wallets on a stalled blockchain; and people will close down their wallets and everything will really grind to a halt.

T
 

SLR - 8dNrncD6mBWzPPQLMRqmk9oCxoC9N7Xfev
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October 01, 2015, 06:08:30 PM
 #2226

Is cryptonick user the main dev of slr nick?
solarcoiner
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October 01, 2015, 06:44:15 PM
 #2227

less than 20 blocks until my 300k start staking again haha :p
y_virtual
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October 01, 2015, 06:47:11 PM
 #2228

Hi, Why staking taking so looooong ? I am waiting since 2 days (fresh install and rescan) ...still "in sync"mode.
On the mac version, did anyone succeed to stake ?
I am about to resign staking if i always have to care about switching off my wallet and wait 2 days long before it kicks in.

This is related to the issue I posted above:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=785257.msg12568888#msg12568888
Difficulty should self-adjust according to the current number of staking coins at any given moment, so that the block rate meets the 1 block per minute target, as specified for the SolarCoin blockchain. Right now, we get 4-5 blocks per hour, which corresponds to a ~12 times higher difficulty than expected - and not even sure if difficulty actually adjusts at all. So we wait 12 times longer than we should.

I think what onsightit has already tried to explain is that time will make this issue pass away.
The coins will slowly ''split''up and there will be a lot more staking coins. Right now everyone is either just staked a block or is waiting to get their balance back in spendable to stake again. That being said my coins have been ''waiting''since over 20 hours. I guess as soon as i have 500 confirms part of my coins will start splitting up and staking again. give it a few days Smiley

No, explanations are not enough here. Moreover, the explanations given only prove that the more wallets/coins will be staking, the difficulty will go up. It is clear that the functionality that must be functional to meet the Solar Coins specs is not working properly. This functionality is built in to make the blockchain independent of the number of wallets online, coins staking, etc. In PoW, even if there is one miner left and regardless of the miner's hashrate, the Difficulty Adjustment algo will guarantee a block rate of 1 block per minute.

Assuming that we are going to PoST and there will be no return to PoW for no matter what reason, then we have ONLY two options available:
1. Difficulty Adjustment algo in the SolarCoin PoST implementation is coded/tested/adjusted properly to meet the SolarCoin target block rate specification of 1block/minute
or
2. SolarCoin target block rate specification is changed to reflect the inability of the current PoST implementation to deal with situations like the one we have now.

The difficulty won't go up necessarily with more wallets etc. The Stake Time is in Play and is a Weighted measure of who is on the network staking. Any wallet can hash out "proof-of-stake" = 0.00024414 Difficulty this is not the trigger it is only after stake time is met and weight is rewarded vs other wallets. Making the Difficulty go down to get more blocks is not the problem. It was the 1.5 wallets and people not switching over. But it may also be that now my wallet is stuck for 510 confirms for 6 days and I can not participate in helping the network or get my 60,000 SLR out of Stake for 5 cents worth of SLR.

I can't stake anymore since the start of PoST. All my coins got Staked for the sum of 5 SLR. They will not confirm for another 100+ at this point 6 days out. The kinks get ironed out and confirms will be lowered is what was stated a while back. So splitting the stakes now is crucial but I don't think I can compete with the big wallets out there so I have to shut off since I can't stake anyways until 100+ more confirms. So that may be what is happening, people are locked in and shut off their wallets. I know I did the last 2 days.

Let me ask this: what should be the minimum requirements for a number of participating coins in how many wallets for the blockchain to move?
Then next question - should the blockchain move at 1 block/minute in any case when these minimum parameters are met, or in just certain very specific conditions?
What I see now is a very real situation when no matter how many wallets get added or turned off, the block rate stays at 4-5 blocks/hour. Are the minimum conditions we apparently don't know not met? Or is this a very specific condition - yet so real that we can't get it more real than that?
Edit: what if all 1.5 wallets get turned off, only 3 of them decide to upgrade to 2.0.5 today, also 7 of the 2.0.5 wallets decide to turn of because their balances have already staked and they are "doing nothing". Is it real? Yes. Do we have "more" wallets? Who knows? Why should we depend on these to have the requirements met? What all this means is that the current implementation of PoST on the SolarCoin blockchain is not secure, since it depends on conditions it was not meant to depend on.

I repeat the issue from a tester's point of view - we have the specs - 1block/minute, with no minimum requirements or as a matter of fact no any other requirements given.
Did we have 1 block/minute with the minimum resources (1 miner) in PoW? Yes.
Do we have anything close to 1 block/minute at any given time so far in PoST? No.
Issue stays.

Yes the block times are not being met because a safegaurd was put into place 500 confirms. This is what may have diminished the block times since there are less than 500 participants. Each got reward and their largest stakes were first so all the coin is locked down now. We have hit a paradox in the Time aspect of PoST. Not sure if the test net had this issue though but stopping and starting the blockchain can bring it to a screeching halt also. Once stuck it stays stuck and slow.

Once your wallet is staked there is no requirement to leave it open until the 500 block is confirmed. It is doing nothing the stake happened and all coin is reserved and it is not functioning other than a peer on the network. It takes 8 or more hours just to have other coin mature so it is a long drawn out process. To top it off the coin was sneaked into PoST and this may have also doomed it to a screeching halt, only the few wallets that happened to have 2.0.1 running would gain an edge on the entire network forever, and this was no accident. The payouts were told to be larger too so these wallets were going to benefit greatly by the sneak into PoST. When those blocks had to be orphaned the network came to a screeching halt.

None of this would even mater if the Difficulty Adjustment mechanism was working properly - then even the tiniest of coin stakes would still keep it running fast, In case the 500 confirms limit does halt the blockchain - that can be decreased on the fly, too, until staking starts rolling past the initial transitional stage. From my experience as a tester - in most cases scenarios like the 2.0.1 issue are just pure accidents, nothing more. But that's what we are here for - to test it and make it work in any scenario
nickgogerty
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October 01, 2015, 07:29:42 PM
 #2229

Is cryptonick user the main dev of slr nick?

  Cryptonick is a member of the community but not my handle.

Nick Gogerty

Solarcoin (§ SLR) are like airmiles. Each 1 Mhw generated gets you §1 free. Solarcoins can purchase what others will trade: USD,BTC, Soy candles..etc.
CryptoNick
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October 01, 2015, 07:56:26 PM
 #2230

Is cryptonick user the main dev of slr nick?

Nope just a Community member attempting to make the coin better.
CryptoNick
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October 01, 2015, 08:02:59 PM
 #2231

Hi, Why staking taking so looooong ? I am waiting since 2 days (fresh install and rescan) ...still "in sync"mode.
On the mac version, did anyone succeed to stake ?
I am about to resign staking if i always have to care about switching off my wallet and wait 2 days long before it kicks in.

This is related to the issue I posted above:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=785257.msg12568888#msg12568888
Difficulty should self-adjust according to the current number of staking coins at any given moment, so that the block rate meets the 1 block per minute target, as specified for the SolarCoin blockchain. Right now, we get 4-5 blocks per hour, which corresponds to a ~12 times higher difficulty than expected - and not even sure if difficulty actually adjusts at all. So we wait 12 times longer than we should.

I think what onsightit has already tried to explain is that time will make this issue pass away.
The coins will slowly ''split''up and there will be a lot more staking coins. Right now everyone is either just staked a block or is waiting to get their balance back in spendable to stake again. That being said my coins have been ''waiting''since over 20 hours. I guess as soon as i have 500 confirms part of my coins will start splitting up and staking again. give it a few days Smiley

No, explanations are not enough here. Moreover, the explanations given only prove that the more wallets/coins will be staking, the difficulty will go up. It is clear that the functionality that must be functional to meet the Solar Coins specs is not working properly. This functionality is built in to make the blockchain independent of the number of wallets online, coins staking, etc. In PoW, even if there is one miner left and regardless of the miner's hashrate, the Difficulty Adjustment algo will guarantee a block rate of 1 block per minute.

Assuming that we are going to PoST and there will be no return to PoW for no matter what reason, then we have ONLY two options available:
1. Difficulty Adjustment algo in the SolarCoin PoST implementation is coded/tested/adjusted properly to meet the SolarCoin target block rate specification of 1block/minute
or
2. SolarCoin target block rate specification is changed to reflect the inability of the current PoST implementation to deal with situations like the one we have now.

The difficulty won't go up necessarily with more wallets etc. The Stake Time is in Play and is a Weighted measure of who is on the network staking. Any wallet can hash out "proof-of-stake" = 0.00024414 Difficulty this is not the trigger it is only after stake time is met and weight is rewarded vs other wallets. Making the Difficulty go down to get more blocks is not the problem. It was the 1.5 wallets and people not switching over. But it may also be that now my wallet is stuck for 510 confirms for 6 days and I can not participate in helping the network or get my 60,000 SLR out of Stake for 5 cents worth of SLR.

I can't stake anymore since the start of PoST. All my coins got Staked for the sum of 5 SLR. They will not confirm for another 100+ at this point 6 days out. The kinks get ironed out and confirms will be lowered is what was stated a while back. So splitting the stakes now is crucial but I don't think I can compete with the big wallets out there so I have to shut off since I can't stake anyways until 100+ more confirms. So that may be what is happening, people are locked in and shut off their wallets. I know I did the last 2 days.

Let me ask this: what should be the minimum requirements for a number of participating coins in how many wallets for the blockchain to move?
Then next question - should the blockchain move at 1 block/minute in any case when these minimum parameters are met, or in just certain very specific conditions?
What I see now is a very real situation when no matter how many wallets get added or turned off, the block rate stays at 4-5 blocks/hour. Are the minimum conditions we apparently don't know not met? Or is this a very specific condition - yet so real that we can't get it more real than that?
Edit: what if all 1.5 wallets get turned off, only 3 of them decide to upgrade to 2.0.5 today, also 7 of the 2.0.5 wallets decide to turn of because their balances have already staked and they are "doing nothing". Is it real? Yes. Do we have "more" wallets? Who knows? Why should we depend on these to have the requirements met? What all this means is that the current implementation of PoST on the SolarCoin blockchain is not secure, since it depends on conditions it was not meant to depend on.

I repeat the issue from a tester's point of view - we have the specs - 1block/minute, with no minimum requirements or as a matter of fact no any other requirements given.
Did we have 1 block/minute with the minimum resources (1 miner) in PoW? Yes.
Do we have anything close to 1 block/minute at any given time so far in PoST? No.
Issue stays.

Yes the block times are not being met because a safegaurd was put into place 500 confirms. This is what may have diminished the block times since there are less than 500 participants. Each got reward and their largest stakes were first so all the coin is locked down now. We have hit a paradox in the Time aspect of PoST. Not sure if the test net had this issue though but stopping and starting the blockchain can bring it to a screeching halt also. Once stuck it stays stuck and slow.

Once your wallet is staked there is no requirement to leave it open until the 500 block is confirmed. It is doing nothing the stake happened and all coin is reserved and it is not functioning other than a peer on the network. It takes 8 or more hours just to have other coin mature so it is a long drawn out process. To top it off the coin was sneaked into PoST and this may have also doomed it to a screeching halt, only the few wallets that happened to have 2.0.1 running would gain an edge on the entire network forever, and this was no accident. The payouts were told to be larger too so these wallets were going to benefit greatly by the sneak into PoST. When those blocks had to be orphaned the network came to a screeching halt.

None of this would even mater if the Difficulty Adjustment mechanism was working properly - then even the tiniest of coin stakes would still keep it running fast, In case the 500 confirms limit does halt the blockchain - that can be decreased on the fly, too, until staking starts rolling past the initial transitional stage. From my experience as a tester - in most cases scenarios like the 2.0.1 issue are just pure accidents, nothing more. But that's what we are here for - to test it and make it work in any scenario

Difficulty has nothing to do with the blockchain right now, PoW is when that means anything at all. Any wallet could crank out a coin with .0002 difficulty, type in getmininginfo at the console to see the Proof of Stake setting "proof-of-stake" : 0.00024414

What I propose would be a combined PoW and PoST implementation for 3 months. This would roll the age forward and keep the chain from stalling. Then at X block the PoW turns off. It may make the miners less coin toggling on and off the needed PoW vs PoST but it would keep things rolling very nicely...
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October 01, 2015, 09:20:09 PM
 #2232

All,

Everything is working fine in the protocol.  The only thing not working (harsh words here) are 21 nodes still on 1.5. We will eventually get there, but the community needs to come together and work as a team.

Thanks for hanging in there...

-Steve

VRC: VMTMcvFjZHAshmVNLY5KYVHCTqcfEnH6Bd  SLR: 8W7D6D7rortYp51BK9MSrfripSoZWyVPVr  BTC: 1LbgAsTDtyWEGjiSaguJhJbaHBPgcMnHfP  BCC: 1Ta39PK67VXTD2xnmPNo5J9KJyBVHdYmy
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October 02, 2015, 12:28:19 AM
 #2233

All,

Everything is working fine in the protocol.  The only thing not working (harsh words here) are 21 nodes still on 1.5. We will eventually get there, but the community needs to come together and work as a team.

Thanks for hanging in there...

-Steve


Can someone please elaborate for me how nodes running the older versions can hold up the process? I'm keen to understand how this all fits together.
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October 02, 2015, 01:14:23 AM
 #2234

Question:
What happens, when all available Spendable balances in all currently available (online) wallets go to Staking, and there are ~150-200 confirmations left before the Interest awards begin getting confirmed and coins released from Staking back to Spendable? With no Spendable left, who finds next block?

My understanding of how PoST works might not be right, but aren't the staked coins the ones doing the work? If so, it doesn't matter how many coins are in Spendable, as these are doing nothing and not contributing towards finding the next block.

That would have been my understanding, too, but it seems it's not like that - at first you have no staked coins, THEN you find a block, THEN coins go to Staking. With Spendable going down, you find a block less often. Then Spendable goes to ~0 and you find no more blocks. Didn't you notice that?

That was my understanding also TooQik, but wouldn't be the first time I was wrong... Smiley

Yes, I've noticed that too but thought it was simply how the GUI was updating the counts.

I've only earned one lot of interest (0.09...woohoo) and only after finding that block did my wallet update the Staking count but it did not reduce the Spendable count. Of my original 54,000 coins it now shows 54,000 as Spendable, 1,000 as Staked and a Total of 55,000. Obviously this is not correct as it hasn't taken the 1,000 Staked coins out of the Spendable amount.

You should have a few backups of your wallet.dat. I'd rename your current wallet to something like "wallet(test).dat" and copying over one of your backups. I'd like to see the outcome.

Sorry for the delayed reply corather.

I didn't actually have a copy of wallet.dat handy at work, so I just stopped the wallet on my work PC and restarted the wallet on my laptop at home. The laptop wallet shows the correct amounts with 53,000 as Spendable, 1,000 as Staked and a Total of 54,000. This obviously isn't the same as the test you suggested, so I'll take a copy of my wallet.dat from my laptop into work on Monday, copy over the dat file and see if the work PC wallet displays the same figures or not and post the result here.
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October 02, 2015, 01:27:33 AM
 #2235

Hi, Why staking taking so looooong ? I am waiting since 2 days (fresh install and rescan) ...still "in sync"mode.
On the mac version, did anyone succeed to stake ?
I am about to resign staking if i always have to care about switching off my wallet and wait 2 days long before it kicks in.

This is related to the issue I posted above:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=785257.msg12568888#msg12568888
Difficulty should self-adjust according to the current number of staking coins at any given moment, so that the block rate meets the 1 block per minute target, as specified for the SolarCoin blockchain. Right now, we get 4-5 blocks per hour, which corresponds to a ~12 times higher difficulty than expected - and not even sure if difficulty actually adjusts at all. So we wait 12 times longer than we should.

I think what onsightit has already tried to explain is that time will make this issue pass away.
The coins will slowly ''split''up and there will be a lot more staking coins. Right now everyone is either just staked a block or is waiting to get their balance back in spendable to stake again. That being said my coins have been ''waiting''since over 20 hours. I guess as soon as i have 500 confirms part of my coins will start splitting up and staking again. give it a few days Smiley

No, explanations are not enough here. Moreover, the explanations given only prove that the more wallets/coins will be staking, the difficulty will go up. It is clear that the functionality that must be functional to meet the Solar Coins specs is not working properly. This functionality is built in to make the blockchain independent of the number of wallets online, coins staking, etc. In PoW, even if there is one miner left and regardless of the miner's hashrate, the Difficulty Adjustment algo will guarantee a block rate of 1 block per minute.

Assuming that we are going to PoST and there will be no return to PoW for no matter what reason, then we have ONLY two options available:
1. Difficulty Adjustment algo in the SolarCoin PoST implementation is coded/tested/adjusted properly to meet the SolarCoin target block rate specification of 1block/minute
or
2. SolarCoin target block rate specification is changed to reflect the inability of the current PoST implementation to deal with situations like the one we have now.

The difficulty won't go up necessarily with more wallets etc. The Stake Time is in Play and is a Weighted measure of who is on the network staking. Any wallet can hash out "proof-of-stake" = 0.00024414 Difficulty this is not the trigger it is only after stake time is met and weight is rewarded vs other wallets. Making the Difficulty go down to get more blocks is not the problem. It was the 1.5 wallets and people not switching over. But it may also be that now my wallet is stuck for 510 confirms for 6 days and I can not participate in helping the network or get my 60,000 SLR out of Stake for 5 cents worth of SLR.

I can't stake anymore since the start of PoST. All my coins got Staked for the sum of 5 SLR. They will not confirm for another 100+ at this point 6 days out. The kinks get ironed out and confirms will be lowered is what was stated a while back. So splitting the stakes now is crucial but I don't think I can compete with the big wallets out there so I have to shut off since I can't stake anyways until 100+ more confirms. So that may be what is happening, people are locked in and shut off their wallets. I know I did the last 2 days.

Let me ask this: what should be the minimum requirements for a number of participating coins in how many wallets for the blockchain to move?
Then next question - should the blockchain move at 1 block/minute in any case when these minimum parameters are met, or in just certain very specific conditions?
What I see now is a very real situation when no matter how many wallets get added or turned off, the block rate stays at 4-5 blocks/hour. Are the minimum conditions we apparently don't know not met? Or is this a very specific condition - yet so real that we can't get it more real than that?
Edit: what if all 1.5 wallets get turned off, only 3 of them decide to upgrade to 2.0.5 today, also 7 of the 2.0.5 wallets decide to turn of because their balances have already staked and they are "doing nothing". Is it real? Yes. Do we have "more" wallets? Who knows? Why should we depend on these to have the requirements met? What all this means is that the current implementation of PoST on the SolarCoin blockchain is not secure, since it depends on conditions it was not meant to depend on.

I repeat the issue from a tester's point of view - we have the specs - 1block/minute, with no minimum requirements or as a matter of fact no any other requirements given.
Did we have 1 block/minute with the minimum resources (1 miner) in PoW? Yes.
Do we have anything close to 1 block/minute at any given time so far in PoST? No.
Issue stays.

Yes the block times are not being met because a safegaurd was put into place 500 confirms. This is what may have diminished the block times since there are less than 500 participants. Each got reward and their largest stakes were first so all the coin is locked down now. We have hit a paradox in the Time aspect of PoST. Not sure if the test net had this issue though but stopping and starting the blockchain can bring it to a screeching halt also. Once stuck it stays stuck and slow.

Once your wallet is staked there is no requirement to leave it open until the 500 block is confirmed. It is doing nothing the stake happened and all coin is reserved and it is not functioning other than a peer on the network. It takes 8 or more hours just to have other coin mature so it is a long drawn out process. To top it off the coin was sneaked into PoST and this may have also doomed it to a screeching halt, only the few wallets that happened to have 2.0.1 running would gain an edge on the entire network forever, and this was no accident. The payouts were told to be larger too so these wallets were going to benefit greatly by the sneak into PoST. When those blocks had to be orphaned the network came to a screeching halt.

None of this would even mater if the Difficulty Adjustment mechanism was working properly - then even the tiniest of coin stakes would still keep it running fast, In case the 500 confirms limit does halt the blockchain - that can be decreased on the fly, too, until staking starts rolling past the initial transitional stage. From my experience as a tester - in most cases scenarios like the 2.0.1 issue are just pure accidents, nothing more. But that's what we are here for - to test it and make it work in any scenario

Difficulty has nothing to do with the blockchain right now, PoW is when that means anything at all. Any wallet could crank out a coin with .0002 difficulty, type in getmininginfo at the console to see the Proof of Stake setting "proof-of-stake" : 0.00024414

What I propose would be a combined PoW and PoST implementation for 3 months. This would roll the age forward and keep the chain from stalling. Then at X block the PoW turns off. It may make the miners less coin toggling on and off the needed PoW vs PoST but it would keep things rolling very nicely...



No, that's not what Steve says:


In PoW mining, the feedback that maintains the 1 minute target is achieved by varying the difficulty according to the hashpower currently working on that blockchain.
In the current PoST implementation we have, what is the feedback used to maintain the target block rate?

Same concept in PoS.  The difficulty is adjusted.

-Steve


So why do we see max 4 blocks per hour all the time? In PoW, we see ~1 block per minute almost independent of the mining power. Are the difficulty adjustment parameters set correctly? According to what you say difficulty should be changed to ~(current difficulty)/12~14

PoW work is different from PoS work, therefore the numbers are different. The concept is the same. The Difficulty number for PoST must be calculated (adjusted) in as similar way as the Difficulty number in PoW, so that the TARGET block rate is met under ANY conditions of the network of machines, doing the job of finding next block.
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October 02, 2015, 01:44:27 AM
 #2236

What is the official latest blockchain's current height?

I'm running v2.0.6.0 and still at 830120
v1.0.5 wallet is at 844355.
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/slr/ is showing 835000

Is there any official block explorer?

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October 02, 2015, 01:51:49 AM
 #2237

All,

Everything is working fine in the protocol.  The only thing not working (harsh words here) are 21 nodes still on 1.5. We will eventually get there, but the community needs to come together and work as a team.

Thanks for hanging in there...

-Steve


Can someone please elaborate for me how nodes running the older versions can hold up the process? I'm keen to understand how this all fits together.

We work as a team, crossing fingers that:
-those 21 nodes get updated to 2.0.5
-they leave their wallets open
-most of all - they have non zero balances
-but also, non of them has a very large balance to bring the difficulty even further UP
-once we have more nodes on 2.0.5, and thus the difficulty goes up as intended to (as also promised by Steve), then with a higher difficulty all of a sudden the block rate will increase.
-may be just may be, with more evenly spread coins in the wallets after eventually (hopefully) 500 confirms for the first locked coins that resume working, the work will seem to those liberated coins so much easier to perform and they will start doing it 15 times faster with the same or even higher difficulty number.

But then, what is this system that relies on someone, or even a team, to cross fingers for it to work?
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October 02, 2015, 01:56:32 AM
 #2238

What is the official latest blockchain's current height?

I'm running v2.0.6.0 and still at 830120
v1.0.5 wallet is at 844355.
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/slr/ is showing 835000

Is there any official block explorer?

835707 is what my 2.0.5 wallets show. I guess since the official block explorer has not been fixed yet, 835707 is unofficial.
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October 02, 2015, 02:00:55 AM
 #2239

What is the official latest blockchain's current height?

I'm running v2.0.6.0 and still at 830120
v1.0.5 wallet is at 844355.
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/slr/ is showing 835000

Is there any official block explorer?

835707 is what my 2.0.5 wallets show. I guess since the official block explorer has not been fixed yet, 835707 is unofficial.

Can you share some peer ip?

solarcoind getpeerinfo would show some connected nodes.

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October 02, 2015, 02:02:32 AM
 #2240

Quote
PoW work is different from PoS work, therefore the numbers are different. The concept is the same. The Difficulty number for PoST must be calculated (adjusted) in as similar way as the Difficulty number in PoW, so that the TARGET block rate is met under ANY conditions of the network of machines, doing the job of finding next block.

The difficulty changes yeah, but has nothing to do with the ability of finding a block in PoST. The wallets are not searching for a block they are staking their coin weight against other wallets to be considered for reward at any given time. When reward is granted the wallet hashes a difficulty to produce the hash work for the block, your not finding a block, you are given the ability to mint it and this now changes your Weight for future stakes, locked in also hence 500 Confirms. You won a block reward since your Stake met the criteria of PoST.

If the wallets online right now were just hashing at the current difficulty we would see many more blocks. If your coin weight determines your Difficulty then this still doesn't make blocks quicker since it is relative to your weight and if I had my wallet hooked up to a thousand core symmetrical processor I could just keep adding hash to my wallet and find more blocks than anyone on the network since I am Hashing and winning blocks at high Coin Weight Diff even though other wallets with normal cores can't find blocks at a low diff. See how it just can't work that way?
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