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smoothie
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October 08, 2014, 12:35:29 PM
 #2441

The name shouldn't have any thing to do with anonymity because ≈99% of the people have no clue what they would need anonymity for. That percent will improve over time, but far too late for us to scale up usership before Paypal, Apple Pay, etc.. take over.

And that is why the anonymity has to be automatic and it can't interfere (nor cause any tradeoffs) with the use as a currency.

This is why Monero wins.

This is why Cryptonote loses.

You forget that increasing the difficulty to crack a private key is simply in the length of the key while allowing all normal charActers for creating private keys today.

Time and resources is the issue. Eventually the limits of technology will not be able to ever feasibly keep up in cracking private keys of crypto coins.

Any one interested in cracking private keys will need to employ tons of resources and time while the users and owners of crypto coins only need to implement a longer private key to disallow such cracks to occur in any meaningful amount of time.

What is the point of cracking a private key if you are dead by the time it is cracked? Lol

Sir, I suggest you re-read the linked thread. It seems you entirely missed the point.

Nope I was addressing point #1. Perhaps you should reread what you wrote. Grin

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        ▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀       
           ²▀▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀▀`          
                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

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October 08, 2014, 12:37:04 PM
 #2442

Nope I was addressing point #1. Perhaps you should reread what you wrote. Grin

I re-iterate you missed the relevance.

1. You can't increase the key size of the historic chain.
2. Cracking historically spent coins is not a threat. The threat is cracking anonymity history at any time in the future.
3. The crack threats are not just due to key length. Key length won't help you in some cases against math discoveries, and certainly won't help against quantum computers.
4. Your heirs won't be dead in 10 - 15 years (or less or slightly more).
5. Why risk it when there are possible designs where you don't have to.

And those aren't the only inefficiencies in Cryptonote that can be eliminated with other possible designs.

As I wrote upthread, I never understood why people were so quick to jump on Cryptonote as the Holy Grail of anonymity.
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October 08, 2014, 12:46:16 PM
 #2443

Nope I was addressing point #1. Perhaps you should reread what you wrote. Grin

I re-iterate you missed the relevance.

1. You can't increase the key size of the historic chain.
2. Cracking historically spent coins is not a threat. The threat is cracking anonymity history at any time in the future.
3. The crack threats are not just due to key length. Key length won't help you in some cases against math discoveries, and certainly won't help against quantum computers.
4. Your heirs won't be dead in 10 - 15 years (or less or slightly more).

Still waiting for quantum computers to become an actual threat that is viable.

I can't see a reason you couldn't increase the size of the key. Why not? Update github and allow for longer keys to be allowed. Monero just allowed for 25 word key instead of a 24 word key recently in the missives.

Math discoveries in SOME cases lol okay like?

 Just because there is a way to somewhat shorten the amount of time it may take to crack a key or anonymity doesn't mean that it can't be mitigated in a simple way as using a longer key length.

I was doing my own QC research back in 2009 and back then they said it was 10 years out....now it is 10-15 years out? Lol looks like not much time has been cut off that estimate in over 5 years.

Sorry but your argument does not hold water. Just words on a forum from someone who appears to enjoy listening to themselves talk and type.

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                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.                  History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
LEALANA  PHYSICAL MONERO COINS 999 FINE SILVER.
 
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October 08, 2014, 12:48:48 PM
 #2444

Also by Zoid announcing the decision to retain the Boolberry name, it is possible that he might have caused those who invested in the new name choices to sell.
Boolberrium, Auroolberry, Boolberrius. Compromise.  Cheesy

Boollion.  That should get that Keiser guy's attention, I suppose.  Grin

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October 08, 2014, 12:50:48 PM
 #2445

Math discoveries in SOME cases lol okay like?

 Just because there is a way to somewhat shorten the amount of time it may take to crack a key or anonymity doesn't mean that it can't be mitigated in a simple way as using a longer key length.

Perhaps you forgot about the discovery of differential cryptanalysis that rendered all 1970s and 1980s crypto cracked (and no one knew it!).

Can't you read?

http://cacm.acm.org/news/170850-french-team-invents-faster-code-breaking-algorithm/fulltext#body-3

Quote
The Future

Barbulescu says the research group has considered trying to push its ideas to medium- and large-characteristic systems, "but there is a huge difficulty porting this algorithm to these other cases," he says. "But if we were able to extend it to large characteristic, then it would be an earthquake in cryptography because every time there is an improvement in discrete logarithm, there is a corresponding improvement in factorization (RSA), because the problems are similar."

Meanwhile, though, existing RSA-based systems should be considered secure. "There are some buzz articles floating around on the Web saying that this is the endgame for RSA," Thomé says. "It is wrong to say that."

The University of Waterloo's Menezes says he is not aware of any cryptosystems in use today that are suddenly at risk because of the work by the French team. However, he warns, "There will be faster algorithms, better implementations of the existing algorithm perhaps through special-purpose hardware, and better analysis. Maybe the algorithms are faster than we think they are."

Why can't you understand that once it is broken, you can't go back and hide the history on the block chain.

What ever you've already released to the block chain, is never going to get more secure. It WILL BE CRACKED SOMEDAY.

That is why do not put your anonymity on the block chain. Mix your inputs and outputs off chain, then put that in a transaction on the block chain (i.e. use CoinJoin).

Then the anonymity can never be cracked in the way it can be on chain with Cryptonote's ring signatures and Diffie-Hellman one-time private keys.

I hope I don't have to explain that again and again.

Boollion.  That should get that Keiser guy's attention, I suppose.  Grin

I think I was the first to suggest that?
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October 08, 2014, 12:51:25 PM
 #2446

DuckNote changed to DarkNote. ... Funny that they chose to go with the 2014 altcoin vogue tag of 'Dark' though.

Good reason to name your coin with one syllable (or not a concatenation of two words) so copy cats can't ride your coat tails. Why didn't Darkcoin just name it Dark? Now we have BitcoinDark, DarkNote, Darkcoin.

Honey can you send me some dark, I am low on funds.

That statement is funnier with ducks or fucks or shivers.


"Can you send me some fucks?"

"I'm all out of fucks to give, sorry."
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October 08, 2014, 12:54:57 PM
 #2447

Also by Zoid announcing the decision to retain the Boolberry name, it is possible that he might have caused those who invested in the new name choices to sell.

Boolberrium, Auroolberry, Boolberrius. Compromise.  Cheesy

I'll invest my bitcent in BBR if they change the name. Even though Boolberry is a cute name on it's own.

It would have been interesting to see the effect on the market though if in fact they did change it. DuckNote changed to DarkNote. DuckNote is a shit name though, so I'm not surprised they wanted to change it. Funny that they chose to go with the 2014 altcoin vogue tag of 'Dark' though.

DarkNote is a branding disaster - they should have stuck with duckNote which is in keeping with the random quirky anarchic and meaningless nature of modern branding, if not the universe in general.

In short, duckNote was harmless.

A successful anonymous coin should have a harmless name, so when it makes the case for the libertarian argument on Capitol Hill everyone will rally around and say YES. Anti-anonymity sorts will be throwing all kinds of words around like terrorism, child porn, drugs, money laundering, tax evasion....but thankfully, due to the cute nature of the particular ducks involved, liberty wins over an accommodating (and a little idiotic) heart.

But DarkNote? Darkcoin? Yeh good luck with that. The first objective of an anonymous coin would be to disassociate yourselves in the eyes of the media, public and government, of the "evils" of the darkweb... And look what you just done did? Handed it to them right on a plate.

Where's the cute ducks masquerading for the 2.3 trillion mafioso terror campaign? Did Gus Fring teach you nothing??

This is why Monero wins.


That's a decent case for having the cute name for the anonymous coin.

Dark anything is just bad business. I agree. In probably gains more 'investors' now in the short term as it's popular, but in the long run it can only hurt.

Names like Monero and Bitcoin are just neutral imo and won't stop people from labeling them the money of terrorists if they want to.
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October 08, 2014, 12:56:09 PM
 #2448

Just because someday it could be cracked doesn't mean it will be cracked you make as if everyone out there is gunning to destroy anonymity technology.

Sorry but if it takes 10 or 20 or 100 years to be cracked why would I really care? In that time I would likely have moved from one address to another and traded into and out of XMR or another CN coin or I would in the worst case be dead.

Anonymity has 0 value to me once I am dead and gone from this world.

With enough time and resources any thing can be cracked.... No surprise there lol

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                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.                  History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
LEALANA  PHYSICAL MONERO COINS 999 FINE SILVER.
 
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October 08, 2014, 12:59:09 PM
 #2449

DuckNote changed to DarkNote. ... Funny that they chose to go with the 2014 altcoin vogue tag of 'Dark' though.

Good reason to name your coin with one syllable (or not a concatenation of two words) so copy cats can't ride your coat tails. Why didn't Darkcoin just name it Dark? Now we have BitcoinDark, DarkNote, Darkcoin.

Honey can you send me some dark, I am low on funds.

That statement is funnier with ducks or fucks or shivers.


"Can you send me some fucks?"

"I'm all out of fucks to give, sorry."

Don't forget Litecoindark, Dogecoindark, and Darkcash.
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October 08, 2014, 01:00:08 PM
 #2450

Just because someday it could be cracked doesn't mean it will be cracked you make as if everyone out there is gunning to destroy anonymity technology.

Sorry but if it takes 10 or 20 or 100 years to be cracked why would I really care? In that time I would likely have moved from one address to another and traded into and out of XMR or another CN coin or I would in the worst case be dead.

Anonymity has 0 value to me once I am dead and gone from this world.

With enough time and resources any thing can be cracked.... No surprise there lol

Why risk it when you don't have to? There are designs that don't risk it.

You can't predict when the crack will occur. It could be within a year or 20 years. But 100 years is much less likely. Think about what technology was like 100 years ago.

BCX, he isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.
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October 08, 2014, 01:04:40 PM
 #2451

Just because someday it could be cracked doesn't mean it will be cracked you make as if everyone out there is gunning to destroy anonymity technology.

Sorry but if it takes 10 or 20 or 100 years to be cracked why would I really care? In that time I would likely have moved from one address to another and traded into and out of XMR or another CN coin or I would in the worst case be dead.

Anonymity has 0 value to me once I am dead and gone from this world.

With enough time and resources any thing can be cracked.... No surprise there lol

Why risk it when you don't have to? There are designs that don't risk it.

You can't predict when the crack will occur. It could be within a year or 20 years. But 100 years is much less likely.

Why?

It is simple...

I never put all of my eggs in one basket. Should your hypothetical situation come true one day...I could care less as the likelihood of me being exposed to that sort of attack vector is very small. And if I lost coins or anonymity oh well.

Personally I can see people wanting anonymity for a short period of time and doing it in multiple iterations where there would be little to discover if say you traded XMR for LTC outside of an exchange...now how do you track that transaction?

Right you can't necessarily link them together trivially nor with a super quantum computer down the road.

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           ▐▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▌          
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           ²▀▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀▀`          
                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.                  History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
LEALANA  PHYSICAL MONERO COINS 999 FINE SILVER.
 
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October 08, 2014, 01:09:04 PM
 #2452

Just because someday it could be cracked doesn't mean it will be cracked you make as if everyone out there is gunning to destroy anonymity technology.

Sorry but if it takes 10 or 20 or 100 years to be cracked why would I really care? In that time I would likely have moved from one address to another and traded into and out of XMR or another CN coin or I would in the worst case be dead.

Anonymity has 0 value to me once I am dead and gone from this world.

With enough time and resources any thing can be cracked.... No surprise there lol

Why risk it when you don't have to? There are designs that don't risk it.

You can't predict when the crack will occur. It could be within a year or 20 years. But 100 years is much less likely.

Why?

It is simple...

I never put all of my eggs in one basket. Should your hypothetical situation come true one day...I could care less as the likelihood of me being exposed to that sort of attack vector is very small. And if I lost coins or anonymity oh well.

Personally I can see people wanting anonymity for a short period of time and doing it in multiple iterations where there would be little to discover if say you traded XMR for LTC outside of an exchange...now how do you track that transaction?

Right you can't necessarily link them together trivially nor with a super quantum computer down the road.

You are clearly vested in Cryptonote and the price is lower than when you bought. Because your logic doesn't make any sense.

Why would anyone diversify into more risk when they can choose designs with less risk. Surely there will plenty of CoinJoin-like designs to choose from. DRK would not be my choice either, because it is not well modeled with a white paper.

Also Cryptonote has severe inefficiencies too, such as you can't maintain unlinkability if you run a lite client.

P.S. don't be led into false security by cross-chain transactions. It can actually increase your risk of de-anonymization.

Edit: and as a developer, I don't want to be responsible for millions of people being subjected to State wrath some years from now.
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October 08, 2014, 01:13:37 PM
 #2453

Boollion.  That should get that Keiser guy's attention, I suppose.  Grin
I think I was the first to suggest that?

Sorry, if I read that post of yours it must have registered in my subconscious only...

Academic interest in bitcoin only. Not owner, not trader, very skeptical of its longterm success.
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October 08, 2014, 01:15:47 PM
 #2454

Just because someday it could be cracked doesn't mean it will be cracked you make as if everyone out there is gunning to destroy anonymity technology.

Sorry but if it takes 10 or 20 or 100 years to be cracked why would I really care? In that time I would likely have moved from one address to another and traded into and out of XMR or another CN coin or I would in the worst case be dead.

Anonymity has 0 value to me once I am dead and gone from this world.

With enough time and resources any thing can be cracked.... No surprise there lol

Why risk it when you don't have to? There are designs that don't risk it.

You can't predict when the crack will occur. It could be within a year or 20 years. But 100 years is much less likely. Think about what technology was like 100 years ago.

BCX, he isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.

I just recently saw a kids program (Arthur). The kids had to build a model of their future town. One of the kids wanted to design the best stadium for the town. All the kids started building the models and this one girl started researching, planning,researching some more and more and more.... you see where this is going. The time ran out and all the kids had theirs ready and she didn't.

TFM- you are so far above me in intelligence- I don't understand half the things you are talking about. But it seems you are a great theorist and less of an action person ( don't go showing that website from 10 years ago).  Just go create your ultimate coin and then amaze us all. When that happens I am sure you will have everyone's support .

"We are just fools. We insanely believe that we can replace one politician with another and something will really change. The ONLY possible way to achieve change is to change the very system of how government functions. Until we are prepared to do that, suck it up for your future belongs to the madness and corruption of politicians."
Martin Armstrong
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October 08, 2014, 01:16:18 PM
 #2455

Just because someday it could be cracked doesn't mean it will be cracked you make as if everyone out there is gunning to destroy anonymity technology.

Sorry but if it takes 10 or 20 or 100 years to be cracked why would I really care? In that time I would likely have moved from one address to another and traded into and out of XMR or another CN coin or I would in the worst case be dead.

Anonymity has 0 value to me once I am dead and gone from this world.

With enough time and resources any thing can be cracked.... No surprise there lol

Why risk it when you don't have to? There are designs that don't risk it.

You can't predict when the crack will occur. It could be within a year or 20 years. But 100 years is much less likely.

Why?

It is simple...

I never put all of my eggs in one basket. Should your hypothetical situation come true one day...I could care less as the likelihood of me being exposed to that sort of attack vector is very small. And if I lost coins or anonymity oh well.

Personally I can see people wanting anonymity for a short period of time and doing it in multiple iterations where there would be little to discover if say you traded XMR for LTC outside of an exchange...now how do you track that transaction?

Right you can't necessarily link them together trivially nor with a super quantum computer down the road.

You are clearly vested in Cryptonote and the price is lower than when you bought. Because your logic doesn't make any sense.

Why would anyone diversify into more risk when they can choose designs with less risk. Surely there will plenty of CoinJoin-like designs to choose from. DRK would not be my choice either, because it is not well modeled with a white paper.

Also Cryptonote has severe inefficiencies too.

P.S. don't be led into false security by cross-chain transactions.

Lol so now you are shifting your stance to be on speculating on my entrance price and holdings? Try harder buddy.

My point is very clear that your supposed attack vector would not matter much as there are avenues to remove traceability.

You under estimate the power of cross chain transactions that aren't linked to any exchange.

Especially if the deal is done while in person where the correspondence of the trade is not recorded anywhere on the internet.

Please try harder to make me appear to be something I am not concerning CN.

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October 08, 2014, 01:17:43 PM
 #2456

You under estimate the power of cross chain transactions that aren't linked to any exchange.

Especially if the deal is done while in person where the correspondence of the trade is not recorded anywhere on the internet.

You are only thinking of yourself. Most people don't jump through hoops. They use a product and expect it to deliver what it promised as main feature.

If you can scare most of the people by attacking the low hanging fruit, society pisses on that coin forever after.

Edit: and as a developer, I don't want to be responsible for millions of people being subjected to State wrath some years from now.

You are asking me to be INTENTIONALLY cavalier, irresponsible and careless as a developer.
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October 08, 2014, 01:21:55 PM
 #2457

You under estimate the power of cross chain transactions that aren't linked to any exchange.

Especially if the deal is done while in person where the correspondence of the trade is not recorded anywhere on the internet.

You are only thinking of yourself. Most people don't jump through hoops. They use a product and expect it to deliver what it promised as main feature.

Edit: and as a developer, I don't want to be responsible for millions of people being subjected to State wrath some years from now.

Lol yes I am. Don't you do that from time to time?

I am also speaking from my own personal point of view of what I have heard, saw, and experienced others who deal in crypto would like concerning anonymity technology and its usage today...not years down the road.

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. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.                  History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
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October 08, 2014, 01:23:40 PM
 #2458

I am pretty sure people who value anonymity would be willing to jump through hoops.

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                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.                  History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
LEALANA  PHYSICAL MONERO COINS 999 FINE SILVER.
 
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October 08, 2014, 01:26:04 PM
 #2459

I am pretty sure people who value anonymity would be willing to jump through hoops.

You entirely miss the point that if the n00bs think they are protected, then later are attacked or told they are not, they will run the government's coin and good riddence to that horrible mistake they made to trust.

Don't go fucking around. This is why i am a developer of mass adopted software and you are not.
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October 08, 2014, 01:27:54 PM
 #2460

Scrambling my password...

thanks for letting my speak.

I will censor myself now, because I talk too much. I think y'all can figure it out from here...

(I don't belong here. I take programming too seriously. Normal people will never understand us. Where is Steve Jobs when I need him?)

Edit: done. clicking Logout.
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