SkepsiDyne Integrated Node - The Bitcoin Mining Company

[boonies4u]

Ah, now I understand, you want to get to 39 computers as fast as humanly possible, then payout dividends once we get there.  Do you think that we should ever enter back into the growth phase, or just stick to 39 computers indefinitely?

I'm pretty sure that the mining model requires regular growth to sustain a profit. If we get to 39 ASAP, we might not have to move as fast at that point.

Nefario is supposed to have a new GUI interface for GLBSE in the next week, which could significantly expand the number of potential investors.  I don't think very many people are capable of using the current command line interface to GLBSE.  I think we should give these new GUI using investors a good reason to buy SIN.

I don't think it is so much the CLI, but more so that the installation procedure has/can be so complicated.

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[eturnerx]

I'm in two minds here. On one hand I'd like to see capacity grow, but I know that we desperately need new funds in order for that to happen. New funds needs renewed confidence from investors confidence. I think we're just generating BTC too slowly right now to grow simply by putting all mined BTC into new rigs. Raising investor confidence probably means a dividend payout more than it means adding more MHash/s.

So I propose a middle ground: For now mined BTC (after expenses like electricity) should be divided into thirds: dividends, share payback and new rigs. Review the decision in a week.

I want to get as many rigs as possible - and I see the way to do that as attracting new investor funds.

[clouds]

I don't think it is so much the CLI, but more so that the installation procedure has/can be so complicated.

I agree, I meant the entire process surrounding the CLI is too difficult, especially the setup.

[cypherdoc]

Tawsix

my idea above is a maximum growth strategy.  take all revenue from either production or ipo share sales and buy rigs up until the pt u have the original # rigs u proposed which was around 39 i believe.  only then pay dividends.  i for one would be more excited at seeing the #rigs and production increase as rapidly as possible which i think alone would drive share sales and prices in the long run.  most of us here who bought @ .75, i presume, were in it for the longterm altho clearly there were the flippers too who i think were the minority of buyers at that price.  and then there are those who just want a payout asap in the form of dividends.

my only other word of advice fwiw is that you need to realize u wouldn't be having as many problems with shares sales and price if u hadn't let confidence slip during that 1-2 wk period by not posting.  share price is all about management perception (and eventually fundamental value).  just simply posting everyday and updates would have you in a better position today than you are.  and its not too late to do this.  just keep posting, continue to show progress as you are, slowly increase production and you'll get thru this.  there's nothing but a bright shiny future ahead for btc in general and mining in particular. you just need to learn how to ride the wave.

Ah, now I understand, you want to get to 39 computers as fast as humanly possible, then payout dividends once we get there.  Do you think that we should ever enter back into the growth phase, or just stick to 39 computers indefinitely?

of course you can keep growth going.  but you would need to stop at 39 or whatever and then pay out dividends to everyone like you  promised.  i would recommend sticking to your original gameplan b/c by my estimation this is what you promised to do and no one can argue with that.  once everyones paid off then you can re-enter your growth phase with more rigs.  the skys the limit as far as i'm concerned with btc related businesses.   don't forget we'll all be holding shares which should go UP if you play your cards right even if you are just paying dividends.  that would be a source of income to grow your rig count as well.

[Sukrim]

Tawsix

my idea above is a maximum growth strategy.  take all revenue from either production or ipo share sales and buy rigs up until the pt u have the original # rigs u proposed which was around 39 i believe.  only then pay dividends.  i for one would be more excited at seeing the #rigs and production increase as rapidly as possible which i think alone would drive share sales and prices in the long run.  most of us here who bought @ .75, i presume, were in it for the longterm altho clearly there were the flippers too who i think were the minority of buyers at that price.  and then there are those who just want a payout asap in the form of dividends.

my only other word of advice fwiw is that you need to realize u wouldn't be having as many problems with shares sales and price if u hadn't let confidence slip during that 1-2 wk period by not posting.  share price is all about management perception (and eventually fundamental value).  just simply posting everyday and updates would have you in a better position today than you are.  and its not too late to do this.  just keep posting, continue to show progress as you are, slowly increase production and you'll get thru this.  there's nothing but a bright shiny future ahead for btc in general and mining in particular. you just need to learn how to ride the wave.

Ah, now I understand, you want to get to 39 computers as fast as humanly possible, then payout dividends once we get there.  Do you think that we should ever enter back into the growth phase, or just stick to 39 computers indefinitely?

I would suggest calculating a USD per 100MH/s rate above which it is more profitable to sell mined BTC (and expand business) and below which it might pay off more to keep (or pay out) BTC to investors, since they are not very profitable to be sold anyways.

Currently 100 MH/s net over 4 USD/day, so I would advise on selling the mined BTC for USD as fast as possible. After the difficulty increase this will very likely melt down very fast, so it might be more wise to keep them.

In the end I wnat you do do something like in this thread: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=7427.0

[Tawsix]

of course you can keep growth going.  but you would need to stop at 39 or whatever and then pay out dividends to everyone like you  promised.  i would recommend sticking to your original gameplan b/c by my estimation this is what you promised to do and no one can argue with that.  once everyones paid off then you can re-enter your growth phase with more rigs.  the skys the limit as far as i'm concerned with btc related businesses.   don't forget we'll all be holding shares which should go UP if you play your cards right even if you are just paying dividends.  that would be a source of income to grow your rig count as well.

The original number of 39 rigs was just used to give numbers should the IPO completely sell.  That number of rigs was calculated at about $7.40 per BTC, so if the IPO sold out right now we'd have quite a bit more.  It wasn't really a promise, just a number used to calculate output and payouts.  Also, how do you know when everyone is paid off?  Some people will be receiving dividends for longer because they bought in sooner, etc.

I would suggest calculating a USD per 100MH/s rate above which it is more profitable to sell mined BTC (and expand business) and below which it might pay off more to keep (or pay out) BTC to investors, since they are not very profitable to be sold anyways.

Currently 100 MH/s net over 4 USD/day, so I would advise on selling the mined BTC for USD as fast as possible. After the difficulty increase this will very likely melt down very fast, so it might be more wise to keep them.

In the end I wnat you do do something like in this thread: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=7427.0

I did a calculation based on 1000 MH/s because I know how roughly how much power is consumed by that figure, and the price of BTC needs to drop to about $1.30 for mining to get close to being unprofitable.  It would need to go down to $8.00 at a capacity of 7GH/s to disallow for a single rig to be purchased a week.  I'm not sure at what threshold you would consider it less profitable to sell the BTC and to pay them out as dividends instead.  As far as the graphs, I don't really have the time to, however I would not be against a motion to pay sharp to do something of the like. 

[Amechan]

I'm in two minds here. On one hand I'd like to see capacity grow, but I know that we desperately need new funds in order for that to happen. New funds needs renewed confidence from investors confidence. I think we're just generating BTC too slowly right now to grow simply by putting all mined BTC into new rigs. Raising investor confidence probably means a dividend payout more than it means adding more MHash/s.

So I propose a middle ground: For now mined BTC (after expenses like electricity) should be divided into thirds: dividends, share payback and new rigs. Review the decision in a week.

I want to get as many rigs as possible - and I see the way to do that as attracting new investor funds.

+1

[Tawsix]

Equally dividing generated BTC into the thirds of dividends, share payback, and rigs is equivalent of saying 66% of generated BTC should be paid out in dividends and 33% should be towards growth (66% will be the actual growth percentage however, as my dividends are directly reinvested in the business.)  Just to clarify.

[Abaddon]

So, to clarify, how often will a shareholder be paid their dividends?
How much per share will a shareholder recieve in dividends per block solved?

[boonies4u]

So, to clarify, how often will a shareholder be paid their dividends?
How much per share will a shareholder recieve in dividends per block solved?

That can't be certain, since we will be pool mining. (i'll edit in some calculations for a certain amount of BTC generated though)

[eturnerx]

Equally dividing generated BTC into the thirds of dividends, share payback, and rigs is equivalent of saying 66% of generated BTC should be paid out in dividends and 33% should be towards growth (66% will be the actual growth percentage however, as my dividends are directly reinvested in the business.)  Just to clarify.

Okay scratch that then. Only a third in dividends, the rest in expansion. Given the number of sold shares a third is plenty a dividend enough.
Review the position again next week.... hopefully the dividend renews investor confidence and new money comes in for expansion. We'll know a week after the dividend payment is in and can talk about it again then.

[bing]

Hm, somethings wrong, somebody just put up 9999 shares for sale at GLBSE

depth SIN
1, 74800000
7, 74900000
9999, 74999999  <---- how is that possible?
3535, 75000000

[Sukrim]

That's kinda the opposite of a "dark pool"...

The rest of the offer will be cancelled once all of these shares in the acount offering it are sold, so in reality there might even be only a single share behind this (I'm not sure if it would even work with 0 shares) - or 1000.
Interestingly you can also put online sell/buy offers with 0 shares currently!

It's not really bad, you just can't know how many shares are really "behind" this offer, until it is bought up. It wouldn't matter though if there would be the max. amount of shares in the seller's account standing there instead, the outcome is the same.

[eturnerx]

I'd like to add that I pledge to reinvest the first dividend payout that I receive into purchasing more SIN shares at the going rate on GLBSE rounded up to the nearest share.
I am likely to extend this pledge for future dividend payouts.

I say this simply because I would like to see long-term expansion via new investor funds, but believe that new investor funds will not happen without a dividend payout. I aim to make any dividend payout to myself as neutral for SIN as possible.

[bing]

I'd like to add that I pledge to reinvest the first dividend payout that I receive into purchasing more SIN shares at the going rate on GLBSE rounded up to the nearest share.
I am likely to extend this pledge for future dividend payouts.

I say this simply because I would like to see long-term expansion via new investor funds, but believe that new investor funds will not happen without a dividend payout. I aim to make any dividend payout to myself as neutral for SIN as possible.

+1

I agree, this would help growing the business aswell.

So, basically, by paying out divends, new investors will gain faith in SIN. But there will also be re-investment from the current shareholders.

My opinion is that all the BTCs generated at this point should be payed out as divends, since then it's up to the shareholders to re-invest them.
If, let say, 30% of the generated BTCs comes back as investments, the shares will be sold faster, and therefore you will get the capital you need to grow.

Using mined BTCs for investments without getting any shares for it is a little bit unfair, since the first investors (like me) will basically give my investment to the investors which buys shares when they are almost sold out.

If generated BTCs isn't payed out as divends, and instead invested by you into SIN, the best time to buy SIN-shares is at the end, when the initial shares are almost sold out, and by then, "my"(and other early investors) investments have made their impact on SIN, making us wait for payout, while late investors can cash out more faster.

So without the divends, We, early investors, will gain less (over time) than late investors

Don't get me wrong Tawsix, I like this idea and I believe in you. But just like eturnex, I'd like YOU to give the shareholders the choice and the opportunity to re-invest our divends into SIN, by simply... by paying out the divends

[boonies4u]

Hm, somethings wrong, somebody just put up 9999 shares for sale at GLBSE

depth SIN
1, 74800000
7, 74900000
9999, 74999999  <---- how is that possible?
3535, 75000000

Have you tried looking at "asset SIN"? That shows total shares in existance.

Should be able to do that to look for obvious fakes.

[Amechan]

I'd like to add that I pledge to reinvest the first dividend payout that I receive into purchasing more SIN shares at the going rate on GLBSE rounded up to the nearest share.
I am likely to extend this pledge for future dividend payouts.

I say this simply because I would like to see long-term expansion via new investor funds, but believe that new investor funds will not happen without a dividend payout. I aim to make any dividend payout to myself as neutral for SIN as possible.

+1

I agree, this would help growing the business aswell.

So, basically, by paying out divends, new investors will gain faith in SIN. But there will also be re-investment from the current shareholders.

My opinion is that all the BTCs generated at this point should be payed out as divends, since then it's up to the shareholders to re-invest them.
If, let say, 30% of the generated BTCs comes back as investments, the shares will be sold faster, and therefore you will get the capital you need to grow.

Using mined BTCs for investments without getting any shares for it is a little bit unfair, since the first investors (like me) will basically give my investment to the investors which buys shares when they are almost sold out.

If generated BTCs isn't payed out as divends, and instead invested by you into SIN, the best time to buy SIN-shares is at the end, when the initial shares are almost sold out, and by then, "my"(and other early investors) investments have made their impact on SIN, making us wait for payout, while late investors can cash out more faster.

So without the divends, We, early investors, will gain less (over time) than late investors

Don't get me wrong Tawsix, I like this idea and I believe in you. But just like eturnex, I'd like YOU to give the shareholders the choice and the opportunity to re-invest our divends into SIN, by simply... by paying out the divends

+1

[cypherdoc]

9999, 74999999  <---- how is that possible?

this ask IS an error.  its impossible.  someone needs to contact Nefario to fix that asap.  i'm at work.

[bing]

9999, 74999999  <---- how is that possible?

this ask IS an error.  its impossible.  someone needs to contact Nefario to fix that asap.  i'm at work.

I notified Nefario after I wrote that

[cypherdoc]

9999, 74999999  <---- how is that possible?

this ask IS an error.  its impossible.  someone needs to contact Nefario to fix that asap.  i'm at work.

i've sent an email to Nefario about this but no response yet.  this order is an error unless glbse has allowed "short selling" which i know i has not.  this puts a cap on the share price until we get this fixed guys so help me out.