SkepsiDyne Integrated Node - The Bitcoin Mining Company

[notme]

He doesn't even know FPGAs use LESS power than gpus.  He's going to charge us another 10 hours at $35/h to adapt the cooling system he probably doesn't even need.

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[server]

Heat is not a problem, this fpga board uses ~20 Watt and generates 360 Mhash.

In theory it's possible to hook up 127 devices (usb) to a single usb port, so 1 motherboard is enough.

But I think I start my own fpga mining company instead of waisting my time overhere.

[Ben Walsh (beamer)]

WHAT THE FUCK WOULD WE BE SELLING ?!?

COMPANY ASSET LIST NOW YOU LAZY SOD !!!!!!!

If someone won't do something as simple as show you the hardware after MONTHS .... then there is no hardware.

I understand this, but Tawsix said "We could sell all of our GPUs and buy FPGA boards with the money."

So their is hardware to sell. Why don't we sell half of the hardware and buy a small FPGA cluster ?

Why not sell all of the GPUs and go full into FPGA mining?  We have plenty motherboards for the foreseeable future (at least 4 FPGA boards per motherboard, possibly more, I need to do more research on how one goes about utilizing them.)  The page you linked said that they get at least 200 MHash/sec which implies that they can be pushed to do more (not sure what the expense is besides consuming more power, perhaps greater heat output?)  If heat output is the issue with these cards we should be sitting well, the cooling system we have in place now would not be hard to adapt to the new boards, if it needed to be adapted at all.

[Tiniebras]

Lots of yelling and shouting in this thread which I am not enjoying.

Personally, i'm thankful to Tawsix for having started SIN, and I continue to be confident he has my best interests as an investor at heart. I believe its the vocal minority we are seeing represented in this thread winding each other up.

With regards to Tawsixs question about FPGA boards, I woulde vote for selling off all the rigs+graphics cards bar 3, and then using those three as the redundant heart of an FPGA cluster.

If it makes people happier, I would support you posting a picture of the hardware that we have. But realistically, you'll probably get the same group of angry shouting people telling you that you borrowed / photoshopped the image.

Regardless I would suggest you ignore the shouting people, and go the FPGA route, given that the vote has gone against liquidation.

Regards,

Esteban Prieto

[Ben Walsh (beamer)]

@Tiniebras

I'm not posting here for your enjoyment. I am posting here because this is the communication channel Tawsix opted to utilise for communication between himself and shareholders. I am "shouting" and "yelling" because Tawsix is refusing to listen to the shareholders.

Had I been given the information I have repeatedly requested, which I am fully entitled to as a shareholder faced with the question of whether the company I invested in be liquidated, I may well have voted for liquidation. Unfortunately, due to Tawsix's failings, I wasn't given that opportunity. No reason why that information is being withheld has been given by Tawsix.

I just want the figures required to perform an accurate calculation along the lines of what you made in your post below.

That is not unreasonable in the slightest.

Why should Tawsix ignore shareholders ?

Completely speculative post here, but just trying to get the ball rolling. If SIN were to be liquidated, I believe there are 13 rigs to be sold? As I understood it, these cost around $900 at the time of purchase. Accepting devaluation due to the riggs now being second hand, and slightly dated, would it be reasonable to see a return of $450 per rigg? If that were the case, that would mean $5850 dollars. I'm a little unclear as to how many shares are owned and by whom, but I believe that around 2000 shares were sold in the IPO, and so Tawsix should own another 2000?

If any of the above is correct that would mean liquidation would result in 5850/4000=$1.46 per share. So that would mean about 0.67 bitcoins per share? Which isn't a horrific loss from the original IPO.

Like I said, speculative post to encourage discussion...

[JusticeForYou]

Whether it works or doesn't, scam or not, this is the type of activity BTC needs... Thanx

[boonies4u]

If someone won't do something as simple as show you the hardware after MONTHS .... then there is no hardware.

I understand this, but Tawsix said "We could sell all of our GPUs and buy FPGA boards with the money."

So their is hardware to sell. Why don't we sell half of the hardware and buy a small FPGA cluster ?

Why not sell all of the GPUs and go full into FPGA mining?  We have plenty motherboards for the foreseeable future (at least 4 FPGA boards per motherboard, possibly more, I need to do more research on how one goes about utilizing them.)  The page you linked said that they get at least 200 MHash/sec which implies that they can be pushed to do more (not sure what the expense is besides consuming more power, perhaps greater heat output?)  If heat output is the issue with these cards we should be sitting well, the cooling system we have in place now would not be hard to adapt to the new boards, if it needed to be adapted at all.

FPGAs demand LESS power, that's what makes them profitable at such low BTC values.

Hardware list. Give it to us.

[Tiniebras]

The case for FPGA boards as I understand it:

ATI 5850 can give about 400 MHashes and uses about 200 watts. (ie at best 2MHashes/watt)

Dual FPGA X6500 gives about 200MHashes and uses 20 watts. (ie. at best 10MHashes/watt)

If we were to keep 2 rigs, and sell the other 11 at... $450? each. That'd give us $4950 which buys us 9 Dual FPGA X6500. So we would go from...and I'm really speculating here, assuming quad 5850's on 13 machines...
4x400x13=20800MHashes peak output

To 2rigs+FPGAS giving (4x400x2)+(9x200)=5000MHashes peak output.

In terms of power, I believe Tawsix quoted about 700 Watts per rig. So we would go from 700x13=9100Watts to (2x700)+(9x20)=1580 Watts.

Long story short we would have a drop of about 75% in btc generated. Our efficency per wat would go from 2.3MHashes/watt to 3.2 MHases/watt. Thats almost a 40% increase in efficiency.

My brain is too tired to turn that into dollars. And I may be making a million basic mistakes in my calcs, feel free to correct me. Long story short, I guess we might become profitable again, but the amount of bitcoins we would generate would be tiny. Tiny amount of bitcoins, and weak bitcoin values, means very little return on investment. To me, liquidation still seems a better option.

/discuss

Esteban Prieto

[DeathAndTaxes]

The case for FPGA boards as I understand it:

ATI 5850 can give about 400 MHashes and uses about 200 watts. (ie at best 2MHashes/watt)

Dual FPGA X6500 gives about 200MHashes and uses 20 watts. (ie. at best 10MHashes/watt)

If we were to keep 2 rigs, and sell the other 11 at... $450? each.

Why would you keep any rigs?  If 1 rig is profitable then all the rigs are profitable.  If 13 rigs are unprofitable then 1 rig is unprofitable.

[Tiniebras]

Thats a good question.

You need to keep 2 physical machines to attach the fpga boards too. However I assume you are correct in saying that it doesn't make sense to keep the graphics cards in there. Weirdly FPGA.contract do have GPUS on the go (http://contract.fpgamining.com/?page_id=34).
Oh, and in another rectification, accordding to the wiki (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison) a real life quad 5850 machines pulls 700 wats but only generates about 1360 MHashes.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Thats a good question.

You need to keep 2 physical machines to attach the fpga boards too. However I assume you are correct in saying that it doesn't make sense to keep the graphics cards in there. Weirdly FPGA.contract do have GPUS on the go (http://contract.fpgamining.com/?page_id=34).
Oh, and in another rectification, accordding to the wiki (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison) a real life quad 5850 machines pulls 700 wats but only generates about 1360 MHashes.

You can attach up to 127 FPGA boards to a single host PC and that is only a limitation due to USB root hub.  It likely is possible to use more than that if you have 2 USB root hubs but likely isn't worth the effort as the top board is 360MH per board.  127 would net you ~40.5GH/s off any motherboard (and a lot of USB hubs ).

[server]

The best performing fpga board atm is "Icarus" it generates 360-380 Mh/s and uses 19-20 watt. Eff. about 18-19 Mhashes a Watt.
(I bought one Icarus dev kit form ngzhang, waiting for it's arrival)

I don't believe that project with 1Gh+/s for $6-700 is for real.

We should not sell all SIN hardware because at one time the bitcoin price will rise and gpu mining will be profitable again.

[shakaru]

What I do not understand is the following...


1) Why cant we know what the hardware is? You were very pleased to give me a list when you thought you could sell the hardware, why not now?

2) Why is the motion to transfer all of SIN over SDM still not up despite your saying you would do so?

3) After looking over the SDM contracts and books, on May 19th I was contacted by a client who requested 4month long contract of 8ghs. That contracted ended according to terms on September 26th. After noticing that one of my contracts basically started when SIN started paying dividends, and ended when "The price of bitcoin is to low to operate", I decided to email the former client asking some questions that could possibly show if it was Tawsix, and I still have not gotten a responce.
This is all speculation on this, but 8ghs, 4months, that was all we got out of Tawsix and it would make some sense.

[SgtSpike]

What I do not understand is the following...


1) Why cant we know what the hardware is? You were very pleased to give me a list when you thought you could sell the hardware, why not now?

2) Why is the motion to transfer all of SIN over SDM still not up despite your saying you would do so?

3) After looking over the SDM contracts and books, on May 19th I was contacted by a client who requested 4month long contract of 8ghs. That contracted ended according to terms on September 26th. After noticing that one of my contracts basically started when SIN started paying dividends, and ended when "The price of bitcoin is to low to operate", I decided to email the former client asking some questions that could possibly show if it was Tawsix, and I still have not gotten a responce.
This is all speculation on this, but 8ghs, 4months, that was all we got out of Tawsix and it would make some sense.

Clever... very clever scam indeed.

[boonies4u]

Tawsix, before any steps are taken, we need that hardware list.

I don't know how many times we need to ask you about it, but this must be done.

You can blabber on and on about whatever ideas you want... It Doesn't Matter! Give us the list, it's the first step in regaining what little trust you can.

[server]

3) After looking over the SDM contracts and books, on May 19th I was contacted by a client who requested 4month long contract of 8ghs. That contracted ended according to terms on September 26th. After noticing that one of my contracts basically started when SIN started paying dividends, and ended when "The price of bitcoin is to low to operate", I decided to email the former client asking some questions that could possibly show if it was Tawsix, and I still have not gotten a responce.
This is all speculation on this, but 8ghs, 4months, that was all we got out of Tawsix and it would make some sense.

[Eveofwar]

3) After looking over the SDM contracts and books, on May 19th I was contacted by a client who requested 4month long contract of 8ghs. That contracted ended according to terms on September 26th. After noticing that one of my contracts basically started when SIN started paying dividends, and ended when "The price of bitcoin is to low to operate", I decided to email the former client asking some questions that could possibly show if it was Tawsix, and I still have not gotten a responce.
This is all speculation on this, but 8ghs, 4months, that was all we got out of Tawsix and it would make some sense.

Dun dun dun...

Can't make a hardware list if you don't fucking have hardware.

[boonies4u]

3) After looking over the SDM contracts and books, on May 19th I was contacted by a client who requested 4month long contract of 8ghs. That contracted ended according to terms on September 26th. After noticing that one of my contracts basically started when SIN started paying dividends, and ended when "The price of bitcoin is to low to operate", I decided to email the former client asking some questions that could possibly show if it was Tawsix, and I still have not gotten a responce.
This is all speculation on this, but 8ghs, 4months, that was all we got out of Tawsix and it would make some sense.

Dun dun dun...

Can't make a hardware list if you don't fucking have hardware.

Well... The bright side is that we may have the documentation needed to persue Tawsix if he did indeed rent hashes.

Please further look into the numbers shakaru, i'll be sending you a pm when I get to my pc.

[shakaru]

Also anyone notice the Shrp.me/sin service says the service will end in Sept/2011?

[SgtSpike]

This is downright hilarious now.  At least for me.

My question is, what hardware was Tawsix planning to sell to shakaru?  I can understand a closed-door liquidation to a "3rd party", because he could just pull out a part of that $15k he scammed everyone and say that was what he was able to get for the hardware, but if he was serious about giving a hardware list to shakaru in order to sell the rigs to him, what would have that hardware list said?