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Author Topic: The $1000 Bitcoin, yes it's worth at least that.  (Read 38320 times)
rezin777
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May 16, 2011, 11:21:33 PM
 #41

is there a better practical alternative of introducing new currency without this injustice inherently build into it?

Promoting fingernails, hair, and skin as money?

That was a joke, but my point is that you don't get money for simply existing, you have to do something that other people value in order to earn it. The original adopters (miners) of Bitcoin were doing something, securing the network when it was brand new, regardless of how valuable other people think it is. Who has the right to come along and say, "Hey, give me some of your labor", simply because they feel that past labor shouldn't have as much value as it currently does?
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PeterSchiff
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May 16, 2011, 11:22:54 PM
 #42


So because we've been born into an unbalanced sharing of wealth, this somehow makes it OK?HuhHuh WTF!!  If it ain't about greed, then share your BitCoin wealth amongst ordinary people and get them involved in the market place. This should be an enabling technology, not an investment opportunity nor a pyramid scheme.



Are you aware of the Bitcoin faucet?


Yes, they offered me about 14c for free in exchange for my gmail login. It seemed like a bad deal. In fact there's not a whole lot I will do for 14c.
PeterSchiff
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May 16, 2011, 11:35:49 PM
 #43

What stops a large organization or government from simply starting an alternative "BitCoin" and market the shit out of it, making BitCoin a thing of the past. And why don't they, because BitCoins are still relatively harmless (think tax evation, state tax, terrorism (just for marketing purposes), etc). I think once there is a crack, BitCoins will never recover.

So because we've been born into an unbalanced sharing of wealth, this somehow makes it OK?HuhHuh WTF!!  If it ain't about greed, then share your BitCoin wealth amongst ordinary people and get them involved in the market place. This should be an enabling technology, not an investment opportunity nor a pyramid scheme.

What stops a large entity from competing with Bitcoin? Nothing. But remember that Bitcoin is not governed by anyone. That creates a level of trust unreachable by any centralized organization.

I'm not saying that unbalanced distribution of wealth is ok. It has simply been pointed out that Bitcoin's wealth distribution is nothing new. I kindly ask again - is there a better practical alternative of introducing new currency without this injustice inherently build into it?


Yes there is, you peg it against gold.
Or, you start BitTulip (BitCoin 2.0), and you make it much harder and slower to produce currency from the onset (barely worth it), and most important of all, you introduce INFLATION into the system to promote spending, not hoarding, and you never cap the total amount of BitCoins that can be produced. If you don't have inflation, you have deflation, which means people with "money" will never have to work.
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May 16, 2011, 11:44:40 PM
 #44

What stops a large organization or government from simply starting an alternative "BitCoin" and market the shit out of it, making BitCoin a thing of the past. And why don't they, because BitCoins are still relatively harmless (think tax evation, state tax, terrorism (just for marketing purposes), etc). I think once there is a crack, BitCoins will never recover.

So because we've been born into an unbalanced sharing of wealth, this somehow makes it OK?HuhHuh WTF!!  If it ain't about greed, then share your BitCoin wealth amongst ordinary people and get them involved in the market place. This should be an enabling technology, not an investment opportunity nor a pyramid scheme.

What stops a large entity from competing with Bitcoin? Nothing. But remember that Bitcoin is not governed by anyone. That creates a level of trust unreachable by any centralized organization.

I'm not saying that unbalanced distribution of wealth is ok. It has simply been pointed out that Bitcoin's wealth distribution is nothing new. I kindly ask again - is there a better practical alternative of introducing new currency without this injustice inherently build into it?


Yes there is, you peg it against gold.
There is an established 'early adopter' problem with a gold standard as well.

Quote
Or, you start BitTulip (BitCoin 2.0), and you make it much harder and slower to produce currency from the onset (barely worth it), and most important of all, you introduce INFLATION into the system to promote spending, not hoarding, and you never cap the total amount of BitCoins that can be produced. If you don't have inflation, you have deflation, which means people with "money" will never have to work.
Now I know that you are not the real Peter Schiff, because he would have never written the above paragraph.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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May 17, 2011, 12:36:03 AM
 #45

Please don't tell me there are actually some individuals complaining about an "unfair distribution" of Bitcoins... surely such posts are jokes?

Personally, I hope the early adopters of what could be an immensely revolutionary new monetary system make astronomical profits. I can't think of anything more "fair" than for those who took the earliest risks with Bitcoins to enjoy lavish gains from its success, should it occur.

Cheers to pioneers!
PeterSchiff
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May 17, 2011, 11:32:23 AM
 #46

Please don't tell me there are actually some individuals complaining about an "unfair distribution" of Bitcoins... surely such posts are jokes?

Personally, I hope the early adopters of what could be an immensely revolutionary new monetary system make astronomical profits. I can't think of anything more "fair" than for those who took the earliest risks with Bitcoins to enjoy lavish gains from its success, should it occur.

Cheers to pioneers!

Yeah, such risks they took, pales in comparison to when I was stationed in Kosovo, or when I took time off work for my startup. What great pioneers they were, leaving their computers on for 24 hours a day, never knowing if their CPU or GPU would overheat.

Hypocrites Smiley
PeterSchiff
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May 17, 2011, 11:41:06 AM
 #47

What stops a large organization or government from simply starting an alternative "BitCoin" and market the shit out of it, making BitCoin a thing of the past. And why don't they, because BitCoins are still relatively harmless (think tax evation, state tax, terrorism (just for marketing purposes), etc). I think once there is a crack, BitCoins will never recover.

So because we've been born into an unbalanced sharing of wealth, this somehow makes it OK?HuhHuh WTF!!  If it ain't about greed, then share your BitCoin wealth amongst ordinary people and get them involved in the market place. This should be an enabling technology, not an investment opportunity nor a pyramid scheme.

What stops a large entity from competing with Bitcoin? Nothing. But remember that Bitcoin is not governed by anyone. That creates a level of trust unreachable by any centralized organization.

I'm not saying that unbalanced distribution of wealth is ok. It has simply been pointed out that Bitcoin's wealth distribution is nothing new. I kindly ask again - is there a better practical alternative of introducing new currency without this injustice inherently build into it?


Yes there is, you peg it against gold.
There is an established 'early adopter' problem with a gold standard as well.

Quote
Or, you start BitTulip (BitCoin 2.0), and you make it much harder and slower to produce currency from the onset (barely worth it), and most important of all, you introduce INFLATION into the system to promote spending, not hoarding, and you never cap the total amount of BitCoins that can be produced. If you don't have inflation, you have deflation, which means people with "money" will never have to work.
Now I know that you are not the real Peter Schiff, because he would have never written the above paragraph.


I must agree with you there Smiley.

Inflation is key, whether or not Peter would agree.
m4rkiz
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May 17, 2011, 11:48:35 AM
 #48

If you don't have inflation, you have deflation, which means people with "money" will never have to work.

do they have to now? multimillionaires don't exist today?

you don't have to play btc game if you think that it is not fair... you don't want to have .02 btc for free, but explain why anyone should give any more of free money to anybody?

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May 17, 2011, 11:52:22 AM
 #49

I think you should read my article about unfairness and pizza in the BitcoinSun

Blog posts about Bitcoin - 1KdRBbhjo72CqKTrFsQed6s9NMrvwvrUkq
Timo Y
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May 17, 2011, 12:05:53 PM
 #50

imagine if this was 1850 ...

I think that gold and silver horses will be the most widely used money form of transport, as they have been for the last 5,000 years of human history, and bitcoin railways will merely be measured in grams of gold instead of dollars used by the rich.

Careful with using history as a guide.  Longevity by itself does not guarantee stability.

There is nothing special about gold.  The only reason it has lasted as a money for 5,000 years is because there was no superior alternative for certain financial needs.  P2P cryptocurrencies may change that situation in a very short time.

IMO there is a real possiblility that gold will lose its status as a major exchange vehicle within less than a decade.  The result will be a crash in the price of gold that reflects its value in jewellery and electronics alone.


GPG ID: FA868D77   bitcoin-otc:forever-d
PeterSchiff
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May 17, 2011, 12:45:32 PM
 #51

If you don't have inflation, you have deflation, which means people with "money" will never have to work.

do they have to now? multimillionaires don't exist today?

you don't have to play btc game if you think that it is not fair... you don't want to have .02 btc for free, but explain why anyone should give any more of free money to anybody?



Because the current value of a BitCoin is an illusion, but not if we all buy into it...
Drifter
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May 17, 2011, 12:51:33 PM
 #52


Because the current value of a BitCoin is an illusion, but not if we all buy into it...

Every currency value is an illusion until the people buy into it...what exactly is your point?

stic.man
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May 17, 2011, 12:57:53 PM
 #53

Please don't tell me there are actually some individuals complaining about an "unfair distribution" of Bitcoins... surely such posts are jokes?

Personally, I hope the early adopters of what could be an immensely revolutionary new monetary system make astronomical profits. I can't think of anything more "fair" than for those who took the earliest risks with Bitcoins to enjoy lavish gains from its success, should it occur.

Cheers to pioneers!

Yeah, such risks they took, pales in comparison to when I was stationed in Kosovo, or when I took time off work for my startup. What great pioneers they were, leaving their computers on for 24 hours a day, never knowing if their CPU or GPU would overheat.

Hypocrites Smiley

nothing more than sour grapes
PeterSchiff
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May 17, 2011, 01:03:59 PM
 #54


Because the current value of a BitCoin is an illusion, but not if we all buy into it...

Every currency value is an illusion until the people buy into it...what exactly is your point?

You just made it for me. But let me spell it out, if this scheme is gonna take off, change the world and create uber rich BitCoin pioneers, we "all" need to buy into it, right now only a few geeks have bought into it.

Currency backed by gold, not an illusion. Currency backed by oil, not an illusion. In the future, perhaps we can have currency backed by energy. Aka, energy options, and I don't mean backed by spent energy, like BitCoins.

marcus_of_augustus
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May 17, 2011, 01:07:13 PM
 #55

Quote
IMO there is a real possiblility that gold will lose its status as a major exchange vehicle within less than a decade.  The result will be a crash in the price of gold that reflects its value in jewellery and electronics alone.

"They shall cast their silver in the streets, and their gold shall be removed: their silver and their gold shall not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the LORD: they shall not satisfy their souls, neither fill their bowels: because it is the stumbling-block of their iniquity."

Ezekiel 7-19

PeterSchiff
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May 17, 2011, 01:11:20 PM
 #56

Please don't tell me there are actually some individuals complaining about an "unfair distribution" of Bitcoins... surely such posts are jokes?

Personally, I hope the early adopters of what could be an immensely revolutionary new monetary system make astronomical profits. I can't think of anything more "fair" than for those who took the earliest risks with Bitcoins to enjoy lavish gains from its success, should it occur.

Cheers to pioneers!

Yeah, such risks they took, pales in comparison to when I was stationed in Kosovo, or when I took time off work for my startup. What great pioneers they were, leaving their computers on for 24 hours a day, never knowing if their CPU or GPU would overheat.

Hypocrites Smiley

nothing more than sour grapes

lol, I keep seeing that comment Smiley, I'm willing to discuss, and perhaps be persuaded, but so far you're doing a terrible job. Geeks gone greedy, hiding behind some noble notion to change the worlds monetary system.
Drifter
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May 17, 2011, 01:12:42 PM
 #57

Currency backed by gold, not an illusion. Currency backed by oil, not an illusion.

Is the value of gold not an illusion? Is the value of oil not an illusion?

Any value is an illusion. As long as that value can be applied long term, stored, and is limited in supply, it just makes the process of creating a price easier Wink

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May 17, 2011, 01:14:08 PM
 #58



Currency backed by gold, not an illusion. Currency backed by oil, not an illusion. In the future, perhaps we can have currency backed by energy. Aka, energy options, and I don't mean backed by spent energy, like BitCoins.



Bitcoins are not spent energy. Their value comes from the amount of energy required to mine the next block.

18jL18iH96BBhwUCQn27FQp7ocodSxvJAB
PeterSchiff
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May 17, 2011, 01:25:05 PM
 #59

Currency backed by gold, not an illusion. Currency backed by oil, not an illusion.

Is the value of gold not an illusion? Is the value of oil not an illusion?

Any value is an illusion. As long as that value can be applied long term, stored, and is limited in supply, it just makes the process of creating a price easier Wink


These things have real value, in today's society, oil more so than gold. In fact our entire economic system is tied to oil prices. Unfortunately we are running out of oil, quickly, so perhaps generic energy options will work better.
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May 17, 2011, 01:26:48 PM
 #60

If you don't have inflation, you have deflation, which means people with "money" will never have to work.

do they have to now? multimillionaires don't exist today?

you don't have to play btc game if you think that it is not fair... you don't want to have .02 btc for free, but explain why anyone should give any more of free money to anybody?



Because the current value of a BitCoin is an illusion, but not if we all buy into it...

You are right, don't buy BitCoin, it is not for you, shift aside .... the thousands of other people queuing up behind you need to get in.

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