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Author Topic: The $1000 Bitcoin, yes it's worth at least that.  (Read 38325 times)
tiberiandusk
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May 18, 2011, 02:19:04 AM
 #81

But the good thing about a free market is it doesn't matter which one of us is right, because nobody's going to force anyone else to accept one way or the other.

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MoonShadow
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May 18, 2011, 03:07:47 AM
 #82

Good points all around, although I'm not entirely convinced that people will give up a 5000-year-old social technology so easily. I'm not attached to it, but I'm still going to keep some on hand just in case. But the good thing about a free market is it doesn't matter which one of us is right, because nobody's going to force anyone else to accept one way or the other.

It's always wise not to put all your eggs in one basket.  I don't own any gold, mostly because I don't have a personal use for it beyond it's trade value.  But I do own silver, because even if society were to completely collapse to the point that even silver had no trade value because no one can eat it or shoot with it, I can still use it for it's anti-bacterial properties by dropping it into my raw milk and keep it from spoiling.

I also have a not-small stock of the things one can eat and shoot with, I call that "insurance".

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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May 18, 2011, 05:46:00 AM
 #83


There is nothing special about gold.  The only reason it has lasted as a money for 5,000 years is because there was no superior alternative for certain financial needs.  


False. There is something special about gold. No other commodity possesses its particular blend of characteristics - and these characteristics make it desirable as a money, thus it is used as such. Lumber and coal do not possess the same benefits as gold, and thus they are not used as money. Same with stuffed animals, buckets of water, and raw iron. Gold is unique in its properties, and its use as money is derived precisely from these properties.

That doesn't mean it's the ONLY good money, or that it will ALWAYS be preferred as money, of course.

And indeed a few of us on this forum believe Bitcoin possesses special characteristics which make it a superior money even to gold! =)

I wrote a piece about this if anyone wants elaboration - understanding money is very important for anyone who wants to encourage the growth of Bitcoin.  http://bit.ly/dk0VzY
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May 18, 2011, 06:57:30 AM
 #84


There is nothing special about gold.  The only reason it has lasted as a money for 5,000 years is because there was no superior alternative for certain financial needs.  


False. There is something special about gold. No other commodity possesses its particular blend of characteristics - and these characteristics make it desirable as a money, thus it is used as such. Lumber and coal do not possess the same benefits as gold, and thus they are not used as money. Same with stuffed animals, buckets of water, and raw iron. Gold is unique in its properties, and its use as money is derived precisely from these properties.

That doesn't mean it's the ONLY good money, or that it will ALWAYS be preferred as money, of course.

And indeed a few of us on this forum believe Bitcoin possesses special characteristics which make it a superior money even to gold! =)

I wrote a piece about this if anyone wants elaboration - understanding money is very important for anyone who wants to encourage the growth of Bitcoin.  http://bit.ly/dk0VzY

actually, you and forever-d are in agreement.  and i agree as well.  and nicely written article btw.
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May 18, 2011, 07:08:59 AM
 #85

If BitCoins really do become as valuable as the title suggests, what is the quickest way for US residents to convert coins into cash in their bank accounts? (It appears there are some maximum transaction amounts on Mt. Gox.)

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May 18, 2011, 07:20:24 AM
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If BitCoins really do become as valuable as the title suggests, what is the quickest way for US residents to convert coins into cash in their bank accounts? (It appears there are some maximum transaction amounts on Mt. Gox.)

I have no idea.  I have no intention of converting my coins to cash.  I just spend them.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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May 18, 2011, 03:05:00 PM
 #87

(It appears there are some maximum transaction amounts on Mt. Gox.)

The "maximum transaction amounts" are simply limits of bid orders, correct? And the bid orders is hypothetically unlimited if price is variable (ie- I'd offer to buy an infinite number of bitcoins for $0.00 each). So people can always "cash out" back into dollars, but the question is "at what price" and this dynamic is true of any currency.  The larger the Bitcoin community grows, the more stable the bid price will become over time and the easier it will be to "cash out" at a given price.

m4rkiz
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May 18, 2011, 10:55:17 PM
 #88

Currency backed by gold, not an illusion.

what can you do with gold that you cannot do with bitcoins?
it has value because is rare, period
can be used in manufacturing of some electronic components, but it is not only option... ~90% (?) of its value come from limited supply not from any kind of actual usefulness
same with diamonds
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May 18, 2011, 11:48:55 PM
 #89

Currency backed by gold, not an illusion.

what can you do with gold that you cannot do with bitcoins?
it has value because is rare, period
can be used in manufacturing of some electronic components, but it is not only option... ~90% (?) of its value come from limited supply not from any kind of actual usefulness
same with diamonds


Diamonds are not really so rare, the supply of them however has been remarkably well controlled.
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May 19, 2011, 08:15:34 AM
 #90

(It appears there are some maximum transaction amounts on Mt. Gox.)

The "maximum transaction amounts" are simply limits of bid orders, correct?

You know, I'm not sure. Is there a place one can go to find out all the fine print about Mt. Gox?

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mikegogulski
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May 20, 2011, 02:23:49 AM
 #91

A couple of months ago I did a calculation. If 21 million Bitcoins are to take the place of the current global money supply (expressed in contemporary US$), what would BTC 1 be worth?

The answer, at that time, was around US$50,000.

Needless to say, this made me hot.

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marcus_of_augustus
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May 20, 2011, 02:55:10 AM
 #92

A couple of months ago I did a calculation. If 21 million Bitcoins are to take the place of the current global money supply (expressed in contemporary US$), what would BTC 1 be worth?

The answer, at that time, was around US$50,000.

Needless to say, this made me hot.

Is that like a "hot under the collar" kind of hot or the other kind of "hot" ... ?

mikegogulski
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May 20, 2011, 03:00:55 AM
 #93

A couple of months ago I did a calculation. If 21 million Bitcoins are to take the place of the current global money supply (expressed in contemporary US$), what would BTC 1 be worth?

The answer, at that time, was around US$50,000.

Needless to say, this made me hot.

Is that like a "hot under the collar" kind of hot or the other kind of "hot" ... ?

"Hot" as in "ZOMG! Filthy lucre!"

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brocktice
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May 20, 2011, 03:12:18 AM
 #94

A couple of months ago I did a calculation. If 21 million Bitcoins are to take the place of the current global money supply (expressed in contemporary US$), what would BTC 1 be worth?

The answer, at that time, was around US$50,000.

Needless to say, this made me hot.

Huh, that's funny. When I did that calculation I came up with US$2.6M/bitcoin. What was your valuation of the global money supply. Maybe the difference is that I used an estimate of the value of the global economy.

http://media.witcoin.com/p/1608/8----This-is-nuts

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mikegogulski
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May 20, 2011, 04:23:31 AM
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A couple of months ago I did a calculation. If 21 million Bitcoins are to take the place of the current global money supply (expressed in contemporary US$), what would BTC 1 be worth? The answer, at that time, was around US$50,000. Needless to say, this made me hot.

Huh, that's funny. When I did that calculation I came up with US$2.6M/bitcoin. What was your valuation of the global money supply. Maybe the difference is that I used an estimate of the value of the global economy.

Ouch. I'm at least off by an order of magnitude, probably closer to two. $50k x 21m = $1 trillion, plus change. US GDP is something like 12x that, so I'm way off in terms of calculating the money supply. http://www.themarketoracle.biz/Article5460.html gives $60 trillion for M3 in 2008, so assuming that M3 is the right number to look at then the per BTC value should be something more like $2.86M/BTC, a lot closer to your figure. And if Bitcoin replaced all M3 currency today, BTC 1 =~ $9.53 million.

Buy and hold, people. Go long Cheesy

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May 20, 2011, 04:37:22 AM
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please just be careful.

linkedin had an ipo today.  if i say 'if everyone on the planet got all their future jobs through linkedin, it would be worth $70,000 a share', that shouldn't make you want to buy it even slightly more.

anything can skyrocket. you still have to decide among all those possibilities where to put your money. a bitcoin in the current block chain isn't the first thing that has experienced exponential early price growth. as they say in america under the regulatory safe harbor, 'past performance does not predict future results'.
mikegogulski
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May 20, 2011, 04:40:27 AM
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please just be careful.

linkedin had an ipo today.  if i say 'if everyone on the planet got all their future jobs through linkedin, it would be worth $70,000 a share', that shouldn't make you want to buy it even slightly more.

anything can skyrocket. you still have to decide among all those possibilities where to put your money. a bitcoin in the current block chain isn't the first thing that has experienced exponential early price growth. as they say in america under the regulatory safe harbor, 'past performance does not predict future results'.

BTW, I'm selling tulips. BTC 30 each.

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May 20, 2011, 04:51:28 AM
 #98

please just be careful.

linkedin had an ipo today.  if i say 'if everyone on the planet got all their future jobs through linkedin, it would be worth $70,000 a share', that shouldn't make you want to buy it even slightly more.

anything can skyrocket. you still have to decide among all those possibilities where to put your money. a bitcoin in the current block chain isn't the first thing that has experienced exponential early price growth. as they say in america under the regulatory safe harbor, 'past performance does not predict future results'.

DYODD

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May 20, 2011, 04:08:11 PM
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please just be careful.

linkedin had an ipo today.  if i say 'if everyone on the planet got all their future jobs through linkedin, it would be worth $70,000 a share', that shouldn't make you want to buy it even slightly more.

anything can skyrocket. you still have to decide among all those possibilities where to put your money. a bitcoin in the current block chain isn't the first thing that has experienced exponential early price growth. as they say in america under the regulatory safe harbor, 'past performance does not predict future results'.

I'm probably going to buy some of that, LinkedIn has been HIGHLY useful to me, I think they have a good thing going and some excellent data scientists, best in the field. However, I'm going to wait for the post-IPO shakeout first.

That said, the calculation of (world economy)/(# of bitcoins) is of course ludicrous, though it does give a reasonably certain absolute upper bound. Smiley I just did it for fun.

http://media.witcoin.com/p/1608/8----This-is-nuts

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brocktice
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May 20, 2011, 04:08:56 PM
 #100

please just be careful.

linkedin had an ipo today.  if i say 'if everyone on the planet got all their future jobs through linkedin, it would be worth $70,000 a share', that shouldn't make you want to buy it even slightly more.

anything can skyrocket. you still have to decide among all those possibilities where to put your money. a bitcoin in the current block chain isn't the first thing that has experienced exponential early price growth. as they say in america under the regulatory safe harbor, 'past performance does not predict future results'.

BTW, I'm selling tulips. BTC 30 each.

Wow almost as bad as my local garden center Wink

http://media.witcoin.com/p/1608/8----This-is-nuts

My #bitcoin-otc ratings: http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=brocktice&sign=ANY&type=RECV

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