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Author Topic: BitForce SC - full custom ASIC  (Read 49011 times)
yjacket
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May 28, 2012, 06:24:26 AM
 #41

Interesting, but you must admit, it is a little weird to announce a new technology when you sill haven't filled a single MiniRig order yet.
Props for the buy-back/trade-in option tho  Shocked

They will work now truly hard to make Mini-Rig work like specified in specs... Not like it was with 20W/1Gh.... And probably would put more effort in cooling etc. (no fancy fans there)... I think you could be proud of them, when they will release it finally! And I am glad to be the one who pushed this. I love professional people and who are willing to work hard. Delivering 20 Gh/s / 2.5 kW instead of 25 Gh/s / 1.25 kW would not pass now, as there's competition and there's experience - so BFL can't go to public and tell: "oops, we did it again". So their buyers could say thank us as well for doing that.

Bitfury, your first post on the forums was 4 days ago, on the 23rd; what do you think you have done in those 4 days for BFL customers to 'thank' you for? Rhetorical question.

Let's keep the name-calling and posturing and hate minimized here, ok? We've all been wading through endless streams of BFL-hate since October. It's gotten pretty old. BFL has been shipping a good product and has indicated a 100% buyback program for their existing customers should they choose to migrate to the new SC technology.

I find their stance laudable. If there is anyone to 'thank' here, it is BFL.

Amen, apparently Bitforce was a driving actor in the critique of BFL- when he showed up 5 days ago.
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yjacket
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May 28, 2012, 06:26:43 AM
 #42


On a side note, it amazes me that people are still hating on BFL. They made a unique design and have spent a tremendous amount of effort on it. I don't know if it's jealousy or w/e, but this is just silly. BFL has been proven to be a good faith actor in their endeavors and I appreciate what they have done for mining.

Can you quote any numbers ? In some verifiable way ? How many gigahashes they added to mining ? I suppose that would be nice stats on their web site "We added XXX Gh/s miners". That works... Not that in "project"...


What are you talking about? What i said was that BFL acted in good faith, nothing more. Can you disprove that?
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May 28, 2012, 06:26:57 AM
 #43

I'm watching this development with interest.  I also wonder what the specs and price of an ASIC based Single would be.

I was planning on placing an order for more BFL Singles, but I might hold off a bit to think about it.  Even if there's a trade-in later on, international shipping both ways and down-time aren't trivial.
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May 28, 2012, 06:29:53 AM
 #44

I'm watching this development with interest.  I also wonder what the specs and price of an ASIC based Single would be.

I was planning on placing an order for more BFL Singles, but I might hold off a bit to think about it.  Even if there's a trade-in later on, international shipping both ways and down-time aren't trivial.


A viable option for you could be to have me maintain your FPGAs for 15% of their mining revenue.

I'm in the US and already maintain tons of x6500s, so it wouldn't be a big deal at all.

Let me know if you're interested!

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BFL-Engineer
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May 28, 2012, 08:37:31 AM
 #45

One cool announcement and the mud comes flinging.  I do think it is a bit dangerous to announce the tech so long before it will be ready, but they did pull it off before.  I look forward to hearing more.

Soft launches to make you HARD <grins>

Interesting to see how much of a 'game changer' this is, or if it will just mean an order of magnitude less of consumption for a similarly priced and hashing output.

kind regards

Not much information can be disclosed publicly at this point, although we will do so in the near future.
It reminds me of 1970 where computers could only be shipped by trains and aircrafts. How do they compare
to a single iPad today in terms of processing power, wattage and price? That's where BitForce SC lives...


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

BF Labs Inc.  www.butterflylabs.com   -  Bitcoin Mining Hardware
DiabloD3
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May 28, 2012, 08:45:10 AM
 #46

One cool announcement and the mud comes flinging.  I do think it is a bit dangerous to announce the tech so long before it will be ready, but they did pull it off before.  I look forward to hearing more.

Soft launches to make you HARD <grins>

Interesting to see how much of a 'game changer' this is, or if it will just mean an order of magnitude less of consumption for a similarly priced and hashing output.

kind regards

Not much information can be disclosed publicly at this point, although we will do so in the near future.
It reminds me of 1970 where computers could only be shipped by trains and aircrafts. How do they compare
to a single iPad today in terms of processing power, wattage and price? That's where BitForce SC lives...


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

BTW, I hope your new gear is geared to only start fans when needed for small scale installations. I'd like to see more silent gear.

BFL-Engineer
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May 28, 2012, 08:50:29 AM
 #47

One cool announcement and the mud comes flinging.  I do think it is a bit dangerous to announce the tech so long before it will be ready, but they did pull it off before.  I look forward to hearing more.

Soft launches to make you HARD <grins>

Interesting to see how much of a 'game changer' this is, or if it will just mean an order of magnitude less of consumption for a similarly priced and hashing output.

kind regards

Not much information can be disclosed publicly at this point, although we will do so in the near future.
It reminds me of 1970 where computers could only be shipped by trains and aircrafts. How do they compare
to a single iPad today in terms of processing power, wattage and price? That's where BitForce SC lives...


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

BTW, I hope your new gear is geared to only start fans when needed for small scale installations. I'd like to see more silent gear.

A great care was taken and the units are planned to be very silent.
It is another important feature of very low power consumption.


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

BF Labs Inc.  www.butterflylabs.com   -  Bitcoin Mining Hardware
Garr255
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May 28, 2012, 09:03:19 AM
 #48

One cool announcement and the mud comes flinging.  I do think it is a bit dangerous to announce the tech so long before it will be ready, but they did pull it off before.  I look forward to hearing more.

Soft launches to make you HARD <grins>

Interesting to see how much of a 'game changer' this is, or if it will just mean an order of magnitude less of consumption for a similarly priced and hashing output.

kind regards

Not much information can be disclosed publicly at this point, although we will do so in the near future.
It reminds me of 1970 where computers could only be shipped by trains and aircrafts. How do they compare
to a single iPad today in terms of processing power, wattage and price? That's where BitForce SC lives...


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

BTW, I hope your new gear is geared to only start fans when needed for small scale installations. I'd like to see more silent gear.

A great care was taken and the units are planned to be very silent.
It is another important feature of very low power consumption.


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

I, on the other hand, hope that the fan speeds are controllable without hacking, as I'd like to rev up the fans to keep everything cooler thus increasing the lifespan of the products.

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”  -- Mahatma Gandhi

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pieppiep
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May 28, 2012, 09:24:15 AM
 #49

What is the post ASIC era, anyway?  I have been trying to figure that out.  Quantum Computing?

Bitforce QC - Infinite Hashes, Power draw from Quantum Foam.
What I remember, but can't a source right now, is that finding a collision for hashing algorithms like sha256 would cut the time needed from 2^256 to 2^128.
So it would still take a long time, and bitcoin block/share finding is not really a collision but just a small hash value, so I don't know if thats the same.
DiabloD3
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May 28, 2012, 09:24:48 AM
 #50

One cool announcement and the mud comes flinging.  I do think it is a bit dangerous to announce the tech so long before it will be ready, but they did pull it off before.  I look forward to hearing more.

Soft launches to make you HARD <grins>

Interesting to see how much of a 'game changer' this is, or if it will just mean an order of magnitude less of consumption for a similarly priced and hashing output.

kind regards

Not much information can be disclosed publicly at this point, although we will do so in the near future.
It reminds me of 1970 where computers could only be shipped by trains and aircrafts. How do they compare
to a single iPad today in terms of processing power, wattage and price? That's where BitForce SC lives...


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

BTW, I hope your new gear is geared to only start fans when needed for small scale installations. I'd like to see more silent gear.

A great care was taken and the units are planned to be very silent.
It is another important feature of very low power consumption.


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

I, on the other hand, hope that the fan speeds are controllable without hacking, as I'd like to rev up the fans to keep everything cooler thus increasing the lifespan of the products.

Well, if its that low power, a low RPM 12v 120mm fan undervolted to 5v probably could keep chip temps in the 40Cs and be silent enough that people could sleep around it.

pazor
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May 28, 2012, 09:40:47 AM
 #51

what a competition...

bfl makes desktop solutions for miners (small and medium size)
bitfury makes industrial size solutions for miners (mini and mainframe size)

why try both of them to compare their products ?
their costumers differ a little bit, isn't it?

i am very curious about the news/things following the annoucement of bfl.
and of course the next product of bitfury. (i not expect that the 110Gh/s machine is the end of their doing)

good luck!

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ice_chill
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May 28, 2012, 11:18:40 AM
 #52

It's easy to speculate on the price/performance.

Their Mini-Rig is around 30 times faster than the Single, so the SC should be atleast 20 faster than Mini-Rig, putting it at around 500GHs.

Their pricing is based on atleast 250 days of mining to break even at current rates, which means around $250'000 ~ $300'000 for that sort of power.
That sort of pricing makes it easy to see why they can afford to buy back at $100%.
And at 500Ghs per system it really is End Game.

So I predict: 500GHs/$275 000
BFL-Engineer
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May 28, 2012, 11:23:29 AM
 #53

It's easy to speculate on the price/performance.

Their Mini-Rig is around 30 times faster than the Single, so the SC should be atleast 20 faster than Mini-Rig, putting it at around 500GHs.

Their pricing is based on atleast 250 days of mining to break even at current rates, which means around $250'000 ~ $300'000 for that sort of power.
That sort of pricing makes it easy to see why they can afford to buy back at $100%.
And at 500Ghs per system it really is End Game.

So I predict: 500GHs/$275 000


The price you've mentioned is way too high...


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

BF Labs Inc.  www.butterflylabs.com   -  Bitcoin Mining Hardware
DutchBrat
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May 28, 2012, 11:29:11 AM
 #54

It's easy to speculate on the price/performance.

Their Mini-Rig is around 30 times faster than the Single, so the SC should be atleast 20 faster than Mini-Rig, putting it at around 500GHs.

Their pricing is based on atleast 250 days of mining to break even at current rates, which means around $250'000 ~ $300'000 for that sort of power.
That sort of pricing makes it easy to see why they can afford to buy back at $100%.
And at 500Ghs per system it really is End Game.

So I predict: 500GHs/$275 000

At that price they effectively won't be trading in many singles....

"Hi I would like to trade in my 2 singles and here's a cheque for $273.800, please send me my ASIC"  Grin

I bid 10 cents on the $ per single btw  Wink
drakahn
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May 28, 2012, 11:30:24 AM
 #55

It's easy to speculate on the price/performance.

Their Mini-Rig is around 30 times faster than the Single, so the SC should be atleast 20 faster than Mini-Rig, putting it at around 500GHs.

Their pricing is based on atleast 250 days of mining to break even at current rates, which means around $250'000 ~ $300'000 for that sort of power.
That sort of pricing makes it easy to see why they can afford to buy back at $100%.
And at 500Ghs per system it really is End Game.

So I predict: 500GHs/$275 000


The price you've mentioned is way too high...


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

The price is high.... but the GH/s is spot on? :p

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ice_chill
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May 28, 2012, 11:36:19 AM
 #56

Well if it's much less, then break even point is literally 2~3~4 months. Unless these units drastically increase the difficulty, thus increasing break even time.
A Single will then be obsolete and you will have no choice but to trade it in. Rig box will become basic entry point product.

The trade in now looks very generous, even too generous  Smiley
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May 28, 2012, 11:45:24 AM
 #57

Well if it's much less, then break even point is literally 2~3~4 months. Unless these units drastically increase the difficulty, thus increasing break even time.
A Single will then be obsolete and you will have no choice but to trade it in. Rig box will become basic entry point product.

The trade in now looks very generous, even too generous  Smiley

My point is that at those prices or even at a much lower price (say $100K) 99% of the buyers of a single will not be able to trade it in, as they won't have the funds or the commitment to put down that kind of extra money. I actually don't see the trade in as a much added value, other than people can perhaps pool their singles, buy 1 ASIC and share the hashing power....

It will be nice for Gigavps, he can probably exchange all his singles, his mini-rigs before they ship, get an ASIC and some money back  Wink
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May 28, 2012, 11:50:21 AM
 #58

Well if it's much less, then break even point is literally 2~3~4 months. Unless these units drastically increase the difficulty, thus increasing break even time.
A Single will then be obsolete and you will have no choice but to trade it in. Rig box will become basic entry point product.

The trade in now looks very generous, even too generous  Smiley

My point is that at those prices or even at a much lower price (say $100K) 99% of the buyers of a single will not be able to trade it in, as they won't have the funds or the commitment to put down that kind of extra money. I actually don't see the trade in as a much added value, other than people can perhaps pool their singles, buy 1 ASIC and share the hashing power....

It will be nice for Gigavps, he can probably exchange all his singles, his mini-rigs before they ship, get an ASIC and some money back  Wink

All I can say at this point is that our units will have different models and will be affordable for general public. 100K$ is not affordable
for general public, and is not a good price reference.


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

BF Labs Inc.  www.butterflylabs.com   -  Bitcoin Mining Hardware
DutchBrat
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May 28, 2012, 11:52:35 AM
 #59

Well if it's much less, then break even point is literally 2~3~4 months. Unless these units drastically increase the difficulty, thus increasing break even time.
A Single will then be obsolete and you will have no choice but to trade it in. Rig box will become basic entry point product.

The trade in now looks very generous, even too generous  Smiley

My point is that at those prices or even at a much lower price (say $100K) 99% of the buyers of a single will not be able to trade it in, as they won't have the funds or the commitment to put down that kind of extra money. I actually don't see the trade in as a much added value, other than people can perhaps pool their singles, buy 1 ASIC and share the hashing power....

It will be nice for Gigavps, he can probably exchange all his singles, his mini-rigs before they ship, get an ASIC and some money back  Wink

All I can say at this point is that our units will have different models and will be affordable for general public. 100K$ is not affordable
for general public, and is not a good price reference.


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

Different models: that is very interesting from a small miner point of view, but also for the security of the network !

I like it !!!
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May 28, 2012, 12:00:35 PM
 #60


Pardon?

I was saying I don't like to sign NDAs but MIGHT be willing to in this instance...

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