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Author Topic: BitForce SC - full custom ASIC  (Read 49003 times)
matthewh3
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June 26, 2012, 07:11:08 PM
 #541

Not sure if this has been answered yet or not but when will you start accepting paypal for pre-orders I need to upgrade and the only way i personally feel comfortable is with paypal and through my credit card?

Why do you want to scam the BFL merchants by chargeback Huh

Bad !

Use BTC and bank wire only so you can get screwed hard !

I know with them not taking PayPal for ASIC pre-orders makes me think there very worried about charge backs.  So either the device won't ship until 2013 or they are going to cut the specs considerably.  I'm thinking of waiting for OpenBitASIC - (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=76351.0) - to start taking pre-orders before putting any money on the table.

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Raoul Duke
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June 26, 2012, 07:27:46 PM
 #542

Not sure if this has been answered yet or not but when will you start accepting paypal for pre-orders I need to upgrade and the only way i personally feel comfortable is with paypal and through my credit card?

Why do you want to scam the BFL merchants by chargeback Huh

Bad !

Use BTC and bank wire only so you can get screwed hard !

I know with them not taking PayPal for ASIC pre-orders makes me think there very worried about charge backs.  So either the device won't ship until 2013 or they are going to cut the specs considerably. 

Or maybe they just wanted to support a company that uses Bitcoin and also save some money on fees.
Bit-pay isn't much cheaper than Paypal, but when we talk about large sums, even 0.5% less in fees is a sum not to be disregarded and left on the table.

Inaba
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June 26, 2012, 08:06:47 PM
 #543

Not sure if this has been answered yet or not but when will you start accepting paypal for pre-orders I need to upgrade and the only way i personally feel comfortable is with paypal and through my credit card?

Why do you want to scam the BFL merchants by chargeback Huh

Bad !

Use BTC and bank wire only so you can get screwed hard !

I know with them not taking PayPal for ASIC pre-orders makes me think there very worried about charge backs.  So either the device won't ship until 2013 or they are going to cut the specs considerably.  I'm thinking of waiting for OpenBitASIC - (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=76351.0) - to start taking pre-orders before putting any money on the table.

You should definitely wait for OpenBitASIC.  We don't really need anyone else taking up more order slots, so please do wait!  Thanks!

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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June 26, 2012, 08:24:38 PM
 #544

You should definitely wait for OpenBitASIC.  We don't really need anyone else taking up more order slots, so please do wait!  Thanks!

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June 26, 2012, 09:46:07 PM
 #545

It looks like a good competition BFL <> OpenBitASIC  Grin

Supporting people with beautiful creative ideas. Bitcoin is because of the developers,exchanges,merchants,miners,investors,users,machines and blockchain technologies work together.
abracadabra
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June 27, 2012, 01:45:42 PM
 #546

I've placed a large order to be paid by bank wire several days ago.  Email sent by BFL states that I will be contacted with bank wire information within 1 business day.
That was 4 days ago.  Has anyone else attempted to place an order with bank wire?

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June 27, 2012, 01:51:13 PM
 #547

They've said somewhere in some thread (can't find it), if you placed the order on 23th, get the mail on the 26th, paid on the 27th, you paid in 1 day and ordered at 23th so placed at 24th in the queue.
abeaulieu
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June 27, 2012, 03:51:23 PM
 #548

They've said somewhere in some thread (can't find it), if you placed the order on 23th, get the mail on the 26th, paid on the 27th, you paid in 1 day and ordered at 23th so placed at 24th in the queue.

I haven't seen that anywhere... could you attempt to find it again?
dave3
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June 27, 2012, 03:54:03 PM
 #549

They've said somewhere in some thread (can't find it), if you placed the order on 23th, get the mail on the 26th, paid on the 27th, you paid in 1 day and ordered at 23th so placed at 24th in the queue.

I haven't seen that anywhere... could you attempt to find it again?

You can check here:

We have an announcement to make regarding all our customers who chose bank-wire as payment method for our SC series. Based on our policy, the order date is locked in when the actual funds arrive in our bank account. In this process, however, we will not count the days it took us to send wire info to the customer. In other words, if you have ordered on 15th of the month, and received wire instruction on 21st and finally the money arrives in our account on 23rd, your official order date will be 17th (15th + 2 days delay between receiving the wire info from us and funds arrival).

Clients who still have not received wire info should not be concerned, as we only count the delay it took them to wire the funds from the day wire instruction was sent to them.

Please let us know if you have any questions in this regard.


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.
jjshabadoo
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June 28, 2012, 02:48:58 AM
 #550

Yeah don't support an open source community project so we can profit more.

I really thought inaba and gigavips were some solid supporters of this bitcoin project, but you're both looking like nothing more than pure profiteers.

No one begrudges you guys an opportunity to make money on your investment, but you can't ignore the fact that both of you are shamelessly supporting a company with unethical and illegal business practices.

YES it is illegal for them to demand full payment for a product that has yet to be developed and who's delivery timeline is not even set yet.

It is also illegal for them to not allow you to ask for e refund if you choose to do so. A small deposit which is non-refundable is perfectly legal, full payment is NOT within the law.

Both of you also have an "insider" relationship with BFL which is obvious from how quickly you both get responses, etc.

I'm sure you'll both be receiving your 1 TH rigs within the first 4-5 units shipped as well.

Good luck, but remember you might be mining worthless coins if this type of pyramid scheme shit becomes the norm for bitcoin vendors.
rjk
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June 28, 2012, 02:50:44 AM
 #551

How do you know how fast they are getting responses?

Did you ever stop to consider that perhaps they are just a little more patient than you?

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
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June 28, 2012, 03:13:58 AM
 #552


YES it is illegal for them to demand full payment for a product that has yet to be developed and who's delivery timeline is not even set yet.


I am not aware of such a law.  Is this a federal law? or a state law?

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June 28, 2012, 03:24:52 AM
 #553


YES it is illegal for them to demand full payment for a product that has yet to be developed and who's delivery timeline is not even set yet.


I am not aware of such a law.  Is this a federal law? or a state law?

It's definitely not illegal. If it was illegal, then every single kickstarter project is illegal.
It might not be very consumer friendly, but it's not illegal. No one is forcing you to buy their products.

sadpandatech
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June 28, 2012, 03:29:43 AM
 #554


YES it is illegal for them to demand full payment for a product that has yet to be developed and who's delivery timeline is not even set yet.


I am not aware of such a law.  Is this a federal law? or a state law?

It's definitely not illegal. If it was illegal, then every single kickstarter project is illegal.
It might not be very consumer friendly, but it's not illegal. No one is forcing you to buy their products.


Can't comment on the legality of it. The short of it is UCC law is not adopted in full by every state. And each state has their own consumer laws. Only way to know for sure would be to first contact the Secretary of State for MO(http://www.sos.mo.gov/categories.asp?id=2) and ask if a merchant located in their state would fall under their rules or under the rule of the state they are registered in....

Kickstarter money and a company taking money for a product are 2 different things. On kickstarter it is very clear up front that you are paying the seed money to get the idea, project or product funded.

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
jjshabadoo
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June 28, 2012, 07:05:22 AM
 #555

Well I'm doing more research specific to the state of missouri and am awaiting a response form the better business bureau. I have also contacted an attorney who specializes in this type of law to ascertain the legality of such practices. Kickstarter projects differ from what BFL is doing as far as I can tell.

I'll know for sure shortly depending on the response rate of the state of missouri and the attorney general's office, etc.

Maybe everyone else is fine with BFL's business practices, but I smell a rat here. If I'm wrong, well no harm done and everyone can carry on with their no interest loans. If I'm right then maybe they will be forced to engage in better business practices which should benefit everyone.

I'm baffled as to how people can believe this company is "on the level" when it took a demand from the community to get a simple clarification on their announced trade in policy.

You can't tell me they didn't already know how they planned on handling trade-ins before they made the announcement.

If so, then this is yet another example of a reckless announcement designed to hamper their competition and stall orders from competing vendors.

Once again, I am NOT anti ASIC, I'm anti poor business practices and this community and all consumers deserve better.
Boussac
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June 28, 2012, 05:34:24 PM
 #556

The SC probably has 10 ASIC and if you do the 2W for USB calculation it gives you 40GH/s for 20W! If this is true, it's a complete game changer!

Do we have a number for the power consumption claim ? How many hashes per Joule ? 20 MH/J ? I can't find this parameter in the thread nor in the BFL docs. 20 GH/J does not sound realistic..

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June 28, 2012, 05:46:03 PM
 #557

They said USB coffee warmer (3.5GH), but they didn't say it gets powered without requiring an external power supply, or doesn't use a 2xUSB cable splitter to get twice the wattage, so we don't know for sure that it's 2 watts.
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June 28, 2012, 10:07:42 PM
 #558

Well I'm doing more research specific to the state of missouri and am awaiting a response form the better business bureau. I have also contacted an attorney who specializes in this type of law to ascertain the legality of such practices. Kickstarter projects differ from what BFL is doing as far as I can tell.

I'll know for sure shortly depending on the response rate of the state of missouri and the attorney general's office, etc.

Maybe everyone else is fine with BFL's business practices, but I smell a rat here. If I'm wrong, well no harm done and everyone can carry on with their no interest loans. If I'm right then maybe they will be forced to engage in better business practices which should benefit everyone.

I'm baffled as to how people can believe this company is "on the level" when it took a demand from the community to get a simple clarification on their announced trade in policy.

You can't tell me they didn't already know how they planned on handling trade-ins before they made the announcement.

If so, then this is yet another example of a reckless announcement designed to hamper their competition and stall orders from competing vendors.

Once again, I am NOT anti ASIC, I'm anti poor business practices and this community and all consumers deserve better.

My purely academic view on this not to be construed in anyway as legal advice is:

I cannot think of anything that would make this practice illegal. You are under no obligation to enter into a purchase contract with BFL. It is their product to sell and as long as they do not make a material misrepresentation then deliver the product as promised then it seem like it would be a valid contract.

The elements of a valid offer include, Duration, Subject matter, Quantity, Quality, Work to Be Done, Price and Payment terms. There is bargained for exchange, namely the promise to send you a certain number of SC units, of a certain quality and quantity within a promised time frame in exchange for your payment. It is in essence an executory contract which you have performed on already by virtue of your payment and you are waiting for BFL to perform their side. If they fail to perform, you most certainly have a cause of action.

Even if their practices were actionable, you would not have a cause of action (in civil court) as you were not harmed (unless you ordered some already).  You could perhaps be a witness in a criminal action by the state or federal government if they decided to prosecute them for some type of illegal behavior, but again, I do not see anything illegal about their ordering process. You may not like it, but unhappiness with a contract process is not valid grounds for a tort action.

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Turbor
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June 28, 2012, 11:16:41 PM
 #559

I really thought inaba and gigavips were some solid supporters of this bitcoin project, but you're both looking like nothing more than pure profiteers.

You must be the voice of reason !

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June 29, 2012, 12:55:11 AM
 #560

do you know the size of BitForce Single ‘SC’?Huh

A GIANT BOX?
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