BitForce SC - full custom ASIC

[Bicknellski]

I already pointed out that BFL and other ASIC manufacturers are a potential competitor to what I am doing now, please read my second to last post and you will see it, this is not some sort of half-assed attempt to down play the competition. I can also point out to you that I own the domain name bitcoinasic.com and have just as much the resources and connections as any other player on this forum to develop and sell an ASIC based product.

The truth is I am weary of BFL and others that have already begun to design and test ASIC based miners, these others I am not going to call by name but if you look around you can find them.

I am not going to make any accusations here, but I propose a question to the community.

BFL has announced an upcoming ASIC based miner they have also stated that we as miners should continue to buy BFL singles because they will take them as full value for trade ins for their future ASIC based devices.

My question is this:

how can BFL do this? How can their business model allow for them to pay back full price for their flagship product which has made 99% of that revenues income.

How is that possible? How is it Not complete bullshit?

Please I want to see who can answer this, and what they will say

Cablepair, I sympathize with you.  The entire purpose of BFL's announcement is to damage their competitors.  FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) has been used by unscrupulous companies against competitors for decades in the tech industry.  See my post #91 for an explanation of their motivations.

Looking at it another way, imagine you have access to tech that is merely 5x more efficient than today's hardware.  Call it $0.14 / MH.  That would be $140k per TH which would capture around 450 blocks a month right now.  Earning $115k / month!  Or 1.2 months to breakeven!  Would you sell this tech to anyone?  Would you tell anyone?  Of course not.  You would put your own money in and yield 100% returns.  You would spread your systems over datacenters worldwide, and hash through a dozen different pools, and no one would realize that you are reaping 80% of the hash rate in a a year.  Then you might start selling.

I suspect BFL is paying rent, lights and salaries with mini-rig orders they still haven't shipped. BFL prove me wrong:  publish a report from a lawyer or CPA showing that they are holding payments for these systems for you in escrow.

Give this man a gold star.

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[Bicknellski]

I am a happy BFL customer.

2 questions:
1)  Where can I sign an NDA to get more information?
2)  Can I order yet?

For NDA you need to contact office@butterflylabs.com. For the order part, well if you already
own any singles or have any mini-rigs in order, you already have the credit for trade-in.
Please stand by for official announcement for ordering...


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

I did contact office@butterflylabs.com and, having ordered a mini rig, thought I was well-qualified to be sent an NDA, which I then would have signed, in much the same way as I have already signed another NDA with another Bitcoin mining-related entity.

To my utter surprise, I just received this email (which, by the way, is not subject to an NDA, as it will become clear in just a second):

Hi Inspector 2211, <- I took the liberty to redact my real name

Thank you for your interest in our BitForce SC product. The NDA you've requested to sign is not a customer level document. It's place is for our manufacturing partners and Venture Capital participants. However, the useful period of time the NDA has covered is nearly complete as we're making our full product announcement in June. Performance specifications and shipment availability will be released at that time.

Best Regards,

Jody D.
Customer Service
BF Labs, Inc.

Where is that NDA?

[Bicknellski]

I do have one question... What is exactly the point you are trying to make?

Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

Thanks for asking.  I have a few simple points.

About BFL
1.  You are pre-announcing this product before delivering your previously pre-announced product
2.  This is your second claim of delivering a product with ASIC hashing.  Your first was debunked as an FPGA as soon as product shipped.
3.  You seem to be using customer funds for purchases of product for development and general expenses.  If I am wrong about that please post a notarized statement from your escrow agent and I will apologize.

About business in general
1.  Paying in advance for development is an investment.  It is generally compensated with intellectual property, equity or loan interest.
2. Honest, viable businesses become insolvent all the time for lack of cashflow.  It is the reason for the Chapter 11 bankruptcy procedures.
3. Payments in advance for products become unsecured debts in a bankruptcy proceeding.  Unsecured debtors are among the lowest priority for recovery in these procedures and generally get nothing.  Even if the material is sitting in the shipping bay with a label on it, it isn't yours under bankruptcy.
4.  For reason #3 above it is unethical, and a violation of consumer protection laws in many places to sell product in advance of availability.  For the same reason, Visa and Mastercard require shipment before a sale can be charged.
5. Companies at risk of insolvency often make very generous guarantee offers.  A guarantee has no revenue cost in the present, and has no value in bankruptcy either.

I can't see ever being a customer of yours given your business practices.  And your question has given me the opportunity to  nicely summarize why people should use caution.  So I will leave your thread to your fans and investors.

Another gold star.