[ANN] FACTOM - Introducing Honesty to Record-Keeping

[FACTOM]

Again, no Factoids were sold at a better price than the sale price, including the early investors sale.
Koinify had nothing to do with the pre-sale, nor the early contributors funds. Also Koinify have stopped doing crowdsales as they are working on a new product.
We believe there is a lack of information from the comments above. All the info on how the sale was going to happen and details about distribution of Factoids was ready available on the sale site.

All of the Factoids will be in the Genesis Block all at once including sale tokens, the pre-sale tokens and the early contributors tokens.

The total number of early Factoids that will be in circulation is also public and has been posted in previous discussion on this thread.
Also early investors as well as early contributors and token sale contributors will have the same opportunity to use their Factoids with the Beta Wallet once released. Nobody will receive Factoids before anybody else.
They will also be able to trade them once exchanges start supporting Factoids. Saying that early investors or contributors who were assigned a number of Factoids will have more incentive for
the price to go up is wrong because even token sale contributors will have the exact same incentive.

Last but not least Factom is not the first project to hold a pre-sale, do your research beforehand.

[fartbags]

Again, no Factoids were sold at a better price than the sale price, including the early investors sale.
Koinify had nothing to do with the pre-sale, nor the early contributors funds. Also Koinify have stopped doing crowdsales as they are working on a new product.
We believe there is a lack of information from the comments above. All the info on how the sale was going to happen and details about distribution of Factoids was ready available on the sale site.

All of the Factoids will be in the Genesis Block all at once including sale tokens, the pre-sale tokens and the early contributors tokens.

The total number of early Factoids that will be in circulation is also public and has been posted in previous discussion on this thread.
Also early investors as well as early contributors and token sale contributors will have the same opportunity to use their Factoids with the Beta Wallet once released. Nobody will receive Factoids before anybody else.
They will also be able to trade them once exchanges start supporting Factoids. Saying that early investors or contributors who were assigned a number of Factoids will have more incentive for
the price to go up is wrong because even token sale contributors will have the exact same incentive.

Last but not least Factom is not the first project to hold a pre-sale, do your research beforehand.

Are you saying Early Investors invested exactly 911.48 BTC? That would make the risk/reward the same as the public. Without transaction IDs there is no way to confirm what scam is being done here. We will assume 0 funds were raised pre-sale and the 20% of all premined factoids are going to the Factom devs.

The same goes for early contributors. Was there 1367.22 BTC of early contributions done? These contributions should be detailed and given a BTC value. Until then, we will assume no work was done and all these premined factoids are going to Factoms devs, Koinify & The Bitcoin Co-op for free.





This is not the way it worked out. In the end this was a scam by the early investors and devs to create a bubble and fill it up with the crowd sale investors

The "devs" and "insiders" have turned their ballon into 911.48 BTC + 1367.22 BTC - (pre-sale = $0 proven) - (early contributions = $0 stated) = 2278.7 BTC in excess funds.





Factom is a good idea and and might work out. The scam was done by early investors and early contributors to ensure they win and win quickly. Whether or not Factom is a success doesn't matter, they will already win once Factom is on an exchange. These people can then further bag hold some of their free coins in case Factom is a success. The crowd sale participates require Factom to be a success to win.


The scam is that public investors were not allowed to participate at the same risk/reward level that the scammers were able to participate at. If the public was involved then this would be a good fair distributed coin which everyone could support.





Factom was one of the first to perform this scam so I will give them a break.


For the public, you need to learn more about what's going on with a crowd sale. Don't get tricked into buying from NEWS stories that are actually not NEWS but "magazine/blog articles". If there are private early investors or early contributions who then hold an "auction", the coin is a scam. It will be better to wait until it hits an exchange to invest.

Do not allow these same scammers to keep running this scam with other good quality projects.

[The Bitcoin Co-op]

Why the Hell would they give me a bunch of Factoids for free? That's the stupidest scam in the world--the scam is to give me free money? That's the opposite of a scam. This is a retarded conspiracy theory.

[FACTOM]

Dear fartbags, we will rest our case as your points make no sense, the community can see that for themselves.
We have nothing to hide.

[fartbags]

Why the Hell would they give me a bunch of Factoids for free? That's the stupidest scam in the world--the scam is to give me free money? That's the opposite of a scam. This is a retarded conspiracy theory.

The public has no proof of what early contributions or early investments were made.

Thus we have to act upon the assumption that nothing was done early and no funds were raise. This would indeed make 50% of all Factom free money with 100% of the free money owned by insiders and devs.

Of course there was some contributions made early so the 50% premine will indeed hold some value and not be free money.



@The Bitcoin Co-op, In this case you are part of the "Early Contributors". You are in possession of the free factoms. Of course this is not a scam against yourself! You now have the ability to sell the free factoids for "The Bubble Scam" crowd sale price at a marketcap of $2,200,000 USD.

The scam was perpetrated against the crowd sale buyers who are unable to sell at a profit and must hold the coin in hopes of a miracle. Even if a miracle does happen and Factom does rise in price, it will always remains that you scammed away a minimum of 50% of the crowd sale profits from investors.



If you would like to tell the public more information on "What BTC value you put into the Early contributions?" and "How many factoids you received in the genesis block?", then we could discuss some real numbers to see how big the bubble is right now.

[chesthing]

Fartbags, wtf do you care if you aren't a holder? just state your case and move on, otherwise people may think you have no life.

[BitcoinSanDiego]

The scam was perpetrated against the crowd sale buyers who are unable to sell at a profit and must hold the coin in hopes of a miracle.

As a long-term follow of the Notary Chains project now known as Factom - and a crowdsale investor that was well-informed about the pre-sale of Factoids, I would appreciate if you did not speak for me and stop insinuating that Factom has ever been dishonest or lacking in transparency.

I have watched this thread since the launch of Factom project and I don't recall you being involved until you showed up to start spreading FUD.  I don't care about making money on Factom.  I purchased tokens to support this project and I am not worried about losing money because I have a job and make plenty of money.

Stop this "investor scam" bullshit.   Factom is about building applications on top of the Bitcoin blockchain.  It is one of many projects in the works that will strengthen the Bitcoin price because it utilizes Bitcoin spends in order to hash entries into the blockchain.  This means that Factom will increase transactions and thus has the potential to increase fees that can be rewarded to Bitcoin miners. 

A distributed peer-to-peer data layer on top of Bitcoin is f*cking awesome man.  What the hell is wrong with you?

[culexevilman]

Dear fartbags and NextGenCrypto your assumptions are your assumptions, lets consider them for what they are.
When we hosted our token sale it was clearly stated that 20% of the Factoids were reserved for early investors, that is no secret, everyone before purchasing Factoids was able to find that information.
As David mentioned we cannot disclose the names of the people who participated in the early sale, is that what are you looking for, the names of the people?

Their funds helped Factom develop its software since 2014, without them we wouldn't have been able to be where we are now.

David also mentioned: The Genesis block will show the amounts of Factoids owned by all participant addresses that took part in the early sale (20%), main sale (50%), and the early contributors (30%).

That is where you'll be able to see where all the Factoids are.

The personal names are irrelevant to me. Nothing you did was illegal, it was just sneaky. The worst thing you did was create a bubble as the early investors pump up the price with public buyers.

You can read more about this scam here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1158161.0


The Factom crowd sale was a 1COP2COS (1st coin offering private limited, 2nd coin offering public sell).

Since Factom was one of the first to perform this 1COP2COS scam I will give you guys a break. The effects of this model were not tested yet. But from now on out I will be calling out all crowdsales if they try to perfom a 1COP2COS




An important thing to note about this scam is they rely on the argument that the early funds were required. This argument does not justify a private limited coin offering. Initial funds should be raised through the public. This would give the same private investors the ability to invest into the project.

If these same private investors are not willing to invest with the public then it proves this is an over valued bubble that no one should be investing in.



If the smart investors who know about this technology aren't willing to invest with the public then you should take their advice and not invest with the public either. Don't end up a bag holder wishing on shooting stars while the early investors are cashed out with lots of profits and moving on to the next project.

If thats the case, then every seed series A, IPO is a scam. lol

disclaimer: I know and met the factom guys, they are cool.

[tobeaj2mer01]

Dear fartbags and NextGenCrypto your assumptions are your assumptions, lets consider them for what they are.
When we hosted our token sale it was clearly stated that 20% of the Factoids were reserved for early investors, that is no secret, everyone before purchasing Factoids was able to find that information.
As David mentioned we cannot disclose the names of the people who participated in the early sale, is that what are you looking for, the names of the people?

Their funds helped Factom develop its software since 2014, without them we wouldn't have been able to be where we are now.

David also mentioned: The Genesis block will show the amounts of Factoids owned by all participant addresses that took part in the early sale (20%), main sale (50%), and the early contributors (30%).

That is where you'll be able to see where all the Factoids are.

The personal names are irrelevant to me. Nothing you did was illegal, it was just sneaky. The worst thing you did was create a bubble as the early investors pump up the price with public buyers.

You can read more about this scam here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1158161.0


The Factom crowd sale was a 1COP2COS (1st coin offering private limited, 2nd coin offering public sell).

Since Factom was one of the first to perform this 1COP2COS scam I will give you guys a break. The effects of this model were not tested yet. But from now on out I will be calling out all crowdsales if they try to perfom a 1COP2COS




An important thing to note about this scam is they rely on the argument that the early funds were required. This argument does not justify a private limited coin offering. Initial funds should be raised through the public. This would give the same private investors the ability to invest into the project.

If these same private investors are not willing to invest with the public then it proves this is an over valued bubble that no one should be investing in.



If the smart investors who know about this technology aren't willing to invest with the public then you should take their advice and not invest with the public either. Don't end up a bag holder wishing on shooting stars while the early investors are cashed out with lots of profits and moving on to the next project.

If thats the case, then every seed series A, IPO is a scam. lol

disclaimer: I know and met the factom guys, they are cool.

Don't troll here, man!

[NextGenCrypto]

disclaimer: I know and met the factom guys, they are cool.

Well shit, as long as they're "cool", we're good guys!  No worries here!  

[fartbags]

Dear fartbags and NextGenCrypto your assumptions are your assumptions, lets consider them for what they are.
When we hosted our token sale it was clearly stated that 20% of the Factoids were reserved for early investors, that is no secret, everyone before purchasing Factoids was able to find that information.
As David mentioned we cannot disclose the names of the people who participated in the early sale, is that what are you looking for, the names of the people?

Their funds helped Factom develop its software since 2014, without them we wouldn't have been able to be where we are now.

David also mentioned: The Genesis block will show the amounts of Factoids owned by all participant addresses that took part in the early sale (20%), main sale (50%), and the early contributors (30%).

That is where you'll be able to see where all the Factoids are.

The personal names are irrelevant to me. Nothing you did was illegal, it was just sneaky. The worst thing you did was create a bubble as the early investors pump up the price with public buyers.

You can read more about this scam here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1158161.0


The Factom crowd sale was a 1COP2COS (1st coin offering private limited, 2nd coin offering public sell).

Since Factom was one of the first to perform this 1COP2COS scam I will give you guys a break. The effects of this model were not tested yet. But from now on out I will be calling out all crowdsales if they try to perfom a 1COP2COS




An important thing to note about this scam is they rely on the argument that the early funds were required. This argument does not justify a private limited coin offering. Initial funds should be raised through the public. This would give the same private investors the ability to invest into the project.

If these same private investors are not willing to invest with the public then it proves this is an over valued bubble that no one should be investing in.



If the smart investors who know about this technology aren't willing to invest with the public then you should take their advice and not invest with the public either. Don't end up a bag holder wishing on shooting stars while the early investors are cashed out with lots of profits and moving on to the next project.

If thats the case, then every seed series A, IPO is a scam. lol

disclaimer: I know and met the factom guys, they are cool.

A traditional series A and IPO would be considered an ICOP2CO. Before the popularity of crowdfunding and the tech of the blockchain, it would have been hard to do business any other way than an ICOP2CO. Factom did an ICOP2COS which is different than a series A and IPO. The auction style "crowd-sale" after a private sale is what creates the bubble effect.



I will give Factom a break because they were possibly just the second people in history to do an ICOP2COS using cryptocoins. The effects of such a thing were not really known. How Factom raised funds created a bubble. Depending on how much pre-investments and efforts were put into this project, there could be up to 1.1 million $ of unaccounted money.



This cryptocoin stuff is the future. Just because Factom is a great project doesn't mean a few people can abuse the public for their gain.

Developers have the ability to include everyone at the same price. The coin distribution is a very important thing for the future of a cryptocoin. Factom has extremely poor distribution. I would call the developers/pre-sale investor 50% premine a "golden parachute". Of course the developers and early investors want this to be a huge success but in an emergency, such as new competition or poor user growth, the early people can exit for a nice profit.



I'm sure investors in these projects will realize this style of investment doesn't pay off well for them.

Projects running public crowd sales as the first step, an ICOS, will prove to work out way better.




There are better ways to raise funds and get projects like this built.

Fewer golden parachutes = more money to hire more developers to build more projects.



Anyone thinking they were doing the right thing investing in this to get a good project built actually had the opposite effect. This type of fund raising puts money into greedy peoples pockets.

[helloge]

Dev, does any exchange will start the FACTOM trade when we release?

[FACTOM]

Dev, does any exchange will start the FACTOM trade when we release?

Yes there will be, we are in talks with a few but we should be able to have ShapeShift and Cryptsy to start with.

[mishax1]

Dev, does any exchange will start the FACTOM trade when we release?

Yes there will be, we are in talks with a few but we should be able to have ShapeShift and Cryptsy to start with.

Cryptsy ?!  oh dear..  Why not poloniex ?

[chesthing]

Hopefully things will go well and Fartbags will stop farting.

[BitcoinSanDiego]

The coin distribution is a very important thing for the future of a cryptocoin.

You are demonstrating why Bitcointalk is generally a waste of time for developers to participate in nowadays.  All you care about is Factoid distribution and proving that you are right but your opinions and accusations are not backed by facts or logic.  Your concerns have been repeatedly addressed by the Factom team.

Factom is much more than a cryptocurency network and it's distribution is far less important than it's potential development capabilities.  Most cryptocurrencies have no use other than as a currency, but Factom puts them to use as an anti-spam mechanism, reward mechanism for federated servers, and a mechanism to price data entries into the Bitcoin blockchain.  Factoids are an integral part of the economic system and their value has yet to be determined.  Factom has been heavily scrutinized by the Bitcoin community and they are very aware of the expectations of Factoids to remain valuable in the marketplace - and have spoken about this repeatedly in interviews.

You have also suggested that Factom engaged in investment fraud by using funds from the presale to purchase tokens in the crowdsale.  #1 this is why they used Koinify and #2 this would be blatant fraud and easily traceable if either party was ever subpoenaed for records.  This does not make sense given the high esteem with which Paul Snow (and Factom) is held in by the Bitcoin community.

Right now, the beta release is all we are interested in and after that we will have data to analyze about Factoid distribution.

[BitcoinSanDiego]

Dev, does any exchange will start the FACTOM trade when we release?

Yes there will be, we are in talks with a few but we should be able to have ShapeShift and Cryptsy to start with.

Cryptsy ?!  oh dear..  Why not poloniex ?

Bittrex, Cryptsy, Poloniex, and ShapeShit.io should be the 4 to start with.

[chesthing]

The coin distribution is a very important thing for the future of a cryptocoin.

You are demonstrating why Bitcointalk is generally a waste of time for developers to participate in nowadays.  All you care about is Factoid distribution and proving that you are right but your opinions and accusations are not backed by facts or logic.  Your concerns have been repeatedly addressed by the Factom team.

Factom is much more than a cryptocurency network and it's distribution is far less important than it's potential development capabilities.  Most cryptocurrencies have no use other than as a currency, but Factom puts them to use as an anti-spam mechanism, reward mechanism for federated servers, and a mechanism to price data entries into the Bitcoin blockchain.  Factoids are an integral part of the economic system and their value has yet to be determined.

You have also suggested that Factom engaged in investment fraud by using funds from the presale to purchase tokens in the crowdsale.  #1 this is why they used Koinify and #2 this would be blatant fraud and easily traceable if either party was ever subpoenaed for records.  This does not make sense given the high esteem with which Paul Snow (and Factom) is held in by the Bitcoin community.

Right now, the beta release is all we are interested in and after that we will have data to analyze about Factoid distribution.

Fartbags is just pissed he missed the crowdsale, don't feed the troll.

[tobeaj2mer01]

Dev, does any exchange will start the FACTOM trade when we release?

Yes there will be, we are in talks with a few but we should be able to have ShapeShift and Cryptsy to start with.

Cryptsy ?!  oh dear..  Why not poloniex ?

Bittrex, Cryptsy, Poloniex, and ShapeShit.io should be the 4 to start with.

I prefer to Bittrex and Poloniex, bter is okay too.

[mishax1]

Dev, does any exchange will start the FACTOM trade when we release?

Yes there will be, we are in talks with a few but we should be able to have ShapeShift and Cryptsy to start with.

Cryptsy ?!  oh dear..  Why not poloniex ?

Bittrex, Cryptsy, Poloniex, and ShapeShit.io should be the 4 to start with.

I prefer to Bittrex and Poloniex, bter is okay too.

Bter is done, there's no volume, their support is horrible, and they still have transactions problems.