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SockPuppetAccount
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January 07, 2015, 08:36:27 PM |
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Could you guys provide me with a couple of example transactions where this is occurring, a couple links to the block explorer? I guess I'm getting caught up semantically with the terminology, but when I think of blocks I'm thinking of....well, blocks in the blockchain. When you are talking about splitting and auto-recombining of blocks, I think you mean that your UTXO's (unspent tx outputs) are getting combined in the stake transaction, but from quickly clicking through a few blocks in the block explorer I haven't been able to track down a live example of this happening.
I'd like to see it in the block explorer...
What they mean is that the individual stacks of coins in their wallets are recombining. I'd think splitting and recombining of blocks will happen more frequently in the next little while as the wallet tries to figure out the optimal size per stack to stake efficiently. I can say that I have a few blocks over 3000 coins which haven't split. I find stacks of 500-800 seem to work well. Right...what I'm trying to determine is if it is just a UI/presentation thing in coin control, or if there is something actually happening on a transaction level. Does XQN have some sort of code in it that tries to do us a favor by recombining small blocks together? That is what it appears. Seems like the sort of thing a well meaning developer would include if he didn't realize just how important it is to those who stake consistently to have complete control over their coins. Those who stake consistently and think about these sorts of things are seeking any edge possible. Obviously, all PoS coins have their own unique parameters. By paying attention to these parameters, we seek to stake our coins as efficiently as possible and gain even a small edge over the other stakers. Optimum block size is normally a very important factor to consider when seeking an efficient staking strategy. Anything that takes away our control of the size of our blocks of coins is going to cause an experienced staker to look in your direction like you just ripped a really loud and exceptionally smelly fart. As there is no cap on time for accumulating coin age, whatever mechanism is coded into XQN that causes blocks of coins to recombine or sweep together is completely unnecessary and counter productive. In the next release, I vote for the kiss (keep it simple stupid!) approach to solving the issue. Just remove whatever code there is that recombines and auto-combines blocks of coins. Maybe sure all the transactions are like this one.  Nothing fancy, no recombination. A block of coins stakes, the reward is added on and the single block becomes 2. That's it. Simple and easy. |
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SockPuppetAccount
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January 07, 2015, 08:39:11 PM |
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hi,
can someone explain me one thing ?
i have a block of 490 xqn from 05-01-2015 and the wallet show me 2 days to stake ?!?!?
is that normal ?
b.r.
Yes, difficulty is high. I have some blocks of coins around that size that are a week old that have not staked. |
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CedricQuotient (OP)
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January 07, 2015, 09:12:40 PM |
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Does XQN have some sort of code in it that tries to do us a favor by recombining small blocks together? That is what it appears. Seems like the sort of thing a well meaning developer would include if he didn't realize just how important it is to those who stake consistently to have complete control over their coins. Those who stake consistently and think about these sorts of things are seeking any edge possible. Obviously, all PoS coins have their own unique parameters. By paying attention to these parameters, we seek to stake our coins as efficiently as possible and gain even a small edge over the other stakers. Optimum block size is normally a very important factor to consider when seeking an efficient staking strategy. Anything that takes away our control of the size of our blocks of coins is going to cause an experienced staker to look in your direction like you just ripped a really loud and exceptionally smelly fart. As there is no cap on time for accumulating coin age, whatever mechanism is coded into XQN that causes blocks of coins to recombine or sweep together is completely unnecessary and counter productive. In the next release, I vote for the kiss (keep it simple stupid!) approach to solving the issue. Just remove whatever code there is that recombines and auto-combines blocks of coins. Maybe sure all the transactions are like this one. Nothing fancy, no recombination. A block of coins stakes, the reward is added on and the single block becomes 2. That's it. Simple and easy. I think your Spanish analogy is a little off  It's more like a group of folks went off and learned some carny-ized dialect of Spanish and the native Spanish speaker is trying to decipher it  Somewhere along the way, the terminology was co-opted. I understand what you're showing here now. I need to think about it a bit, because - having an actual understanding of the nuts-and-bolts of Sunny King's proof-of-stake protocol - I am not necessarily convinced that the modifications some other coins have made to this process are the best idea and they may be unwittingly compromising the algorithm. I'll have to look at their implementation, but I think there is a better/more sound way to deal with it. Just remove whatever code there is that recombines and auto-combines blocks of coins.
That's not how it works. There is a much simpler reason for the effect you are seeing. |
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trader19
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1001
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January 07, 2015, 09:37:09 PM |
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I got some output back from the graphic designer, so I can roll any tweaks into the next wallet update for the new graphics/icons.
when will the mac wallet update be ready? i can't seem to stake with old wallet on mac, i only get orphans.. |
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myagui
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1154
Merit: 1001
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January 07, 2015, 09:42:45 PM |
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when will the mac wallet update be ready? i can't seem to stake with old wallet on mac, i only get orphans..
Old wallet will be trying to produce too large stakes (up to 618 XQN), so it is bound to only have orphans, has the majority of the network is clearly operating on the most up-to-date wallet and the old (larger) stake sizes are no longer allowed. You need to upgrade that ASAP (as I understand, you need a Mac build, sorry, can't help you there). |
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Zenithar
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January 07, 2015, 09:55:35 PM |
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Does XQN have some sort of code in it that tries to do us a favor by recombining small blocks together?
AFAIK I've seen this in nearly every PoS coin - it's relevant to the time it takes for a block to stake. For instance, when XQN still had 618 as the max subsidy I would stake blocks of ~5k XQN sit for ~2 days so when it staked they would become become ~5618 XQN blocks as opposed to two blocks ~2809. Same thing has happened to me with TEK, HBN, HYP, etc, it just takes longer; likely related to a coins min stake age. |
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0bert
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January 07, 2015, 10:40:31 PM |
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Does anyone received XAI from Abacus? Or how long does it take normally till a ticket is processed?
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CedricQuotient (OP)
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January 07, 2015, 11:37:49 PM |
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Does anyone received XAI from Abacus? Or how long does it take normally till a ticket is processed?
I'm going to run through the queue and start sending out coins later tonight  |
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0bert
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January 07, 2015, 11:52:58 PM |
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Does anyone received XAI from Abacus? Or how long does it take normally till a ticket is processed?
I'm going to run through the queue and start sending out coins later tonight Alright, thanks for your reply! |
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boomboom
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January 08, 2015, 12:15:17 AM |
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Does anyone received XAI from Abacus? Or how long does it take normally till a ticket is processed?
I'm going to run through the queue and start sending out coins later tonight How do you get on the queue, is it automatic, or do you need to register somewhere? |
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0bert
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January 08, 2015, 12:20:49 AM |
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Does anyone received XAI from Abacus? Or how long does it take normally till a ticket is processed?
I'm going to run through the queue and start sending out coins later tonight How do you get on the queue, is it automatic, or do you need to register somewhere? Read this: |
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HunterS
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January 08, 2015, 02:32:22 AM |
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Does anyone received XAI from Abacus? Or how long does it take normally till a ticket is processed?
I'm going to run through the queue and start sending out coins later tonight How do you get on the queue, is it automatic, or do you need to register somewhere? Read this: recieved my coins.cheers dev  |
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plast555
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January 08, 2015, 01:02:19 PM |
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Could you guys provide me with a couple of example transactions where this is occurring, a couple links to the block explorer? I guess I'm getting caught up semantically with the terminology, but when I think of blocks I'm thinking of....well, blocks in the blockchain. When you are talking about splitting and auto-recombining of blocks, I think you mean that your UTXO's (unspent tx outputs) are getting combined in the stake transaction, but from quickly clicking through a few blocks in the block explorer I haven't been able to track down a live example of this happening.
I'd like to see it in the block explorer...
Trying to think of a way to explain what we mean. I guess even thought you are developing 2 coins, you haven't really lived in this world very long. Have you ever heard that thing people say about learning spanish in a classroom environment? I've always heard that if you learn spanish in the classroom, then go to Mexico and try to communicate with native spanish speakers, neither of you will understand each other even though you are both technically speaking the same language. You are like the guy that learned spanish in the classroom and we are like the natives. This isn't the point of my post, just thought it was an interesting and apt analogy. When we say blocks of coins we mean all of our chunks of coins that are eligible for staking. All of our stake eligible inputs you could also say. This would be what happens in a standard PoS transaction. Coins stake, the single (chunk, block, input) of coins splits and becomes 2. In this one, for some reason it was decided that these inputs would be too small if the block of coins were allowed to split into 2, so the coins stake and the earned stake is added but we only end up with 1 block of coins rather than the standard 2.  Now this is the one that really bugs the piss out of me. Here, for some reason it is decided a whole group of inputs are too damn small, so the client sweeps them all into one during the stake transaction. I have never seen this happening before.  Yes, exactly this happened to me too, I made small groups, like 178 XQN x 3, 200 XQN x 10 and so on....and it took my whole group of coins, like 8 groups, 1600 XQN and calculate like one, 16.18....personally, I don't like that, and before was much more better, and as I can notice many people left XQN because of that, I hope that solution will come very fast, or turn back to old, will be the best !! Maybe to make like 10 addresses and send to every address 200 coins, anybody try that ? |
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kyne
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
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January 08, 2015, 01:35:05 PM |
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Price would not go anyway with this type of POS. I try to keep the coin in wallet but the stake did not make any profit for me like before. Hold about 30K but git stake less than 100XQN and the price  Could you guys provide me with a couple of example transactions where this is occurring, a couple links to the block explorer? I guess I'm getting caught up semantically with the terminology, but when I think of blocks I'm thinking of....well, blocks in the blockchain. When you are talking about splitting and auto-recombining of blocks, I think you mean that your UTXO's (unspent tx outputs) are getting combined in the stake transaction, but from quickly clicking through a few blocks in the block explorer I haven't been able to track down a live example of this happening.
I'd like to see it in the block explorer...
Trying to think of a way to explain what we mean. I guess even thought you are developing 2 coins, you haven't really lived in this world very long. Have you ever heard that thing people say about learning spanish in a classroom environment? I've always heard that if you learn spanish in the classroom, then go to Mexico and try to communicate with native spanish speakers, neither of you will understand each other even though you are both technically speaking the same language. You are like the guy that learned spanish in the classroom and we are like the natives. This isn't the point of my post, just thought it was an interesting and apt analogy. When we say blocks of coins we mean all of our chunks of coins that are eligible for staking. All of our stake eligible inputs you could also say. This would be what happens in a standard PoS transaction. Coins stake, the single (chunk, block, input) of coins splits and becomes 2. https://i.imgur.com/QAggzEX.jpg In this one, for some reason it was decided that these inputs would be too small if the block of coins were allowed to split into 2, so the coins stake and the earned stake is added but we only end up with 1 block of coins rather than the standard 2. https://i.imgur.com/mNOm27p.jpgNow this is the one that really bugs the piss out of me. Here, for some reason it is decided a whole group of inputs are too damn small, so the client sweeps them all into one during the stake transaction. I have never seen this happening before. https://i.imgur.com/4D6Emkw.jpg]Yes, exactly this happened to me too, I made small groups, like 178 XQN x 3, 200 XQN x 10 and so on....and it took my whole group of coins, like 8 groups, 1600 XQN and calculate like one, 16.18....personally, I don't like that, and before was much more better, and as I can notice many people left XQN because of that, I hope that solution will come very fast, or turn back to old, will be the best !! Maybe to make like 10 addresses and send to every address 200 coins, anybody try that ? |
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activebiz
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January 08, 2015, 01:43:58 PM |
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just started mining this l. looks good.
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myagui
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1154
Merit: 1001
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January 08, 2015, 02:27:08 PM |
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Honestly, while the stake rate was nice, I'm in this coin for the features listed in the OP, like asset indices and connection with algorithmic trading in the future. Recall that something like Peercoin has a negligible rate and is doing fine. Use case is more important than becoming yet another high PoS coin. We have too many of those and they honestly aren't doing all that great market cap wise. Novacoin still wipes the floor with them and it's stake is less than the 25%-30% per year as quoted by the current difficulty metrics. I think that needs to change +1 To those frustrated with the new stake earnings: Just remember that relative to all other XQN holders, you are staking exactly the same as before, which is a relative % of your holdings. Observe how your position in the XQN rich list will not really change, unless there is some significant trading happening (someone buying or selling a bunch). Less coins generated by staking also means that the emission has slowed down, and a lot. This alone does not increase the value of XQN, but makes it much easier to sustain it, and provides an easier balance to demand (which is not much at this point). What's important now, is that we build a use case that promotes and encourages trading and transacting. Once this happens, there are less coins sitting in wallets (staking), and so the staking competition eases up a bit. Soon enough, XQN will become much more than just an ever-growing balance sheet... |
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HunterS
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January 08, 2015, 02:41:53 PM |
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Could you guys provide me with a couple of example transactions where this is occurring, a couple links to the block explorer? I guess I'm getting caught up semantically with the terminology, but when I think of blocks I'm thinking of....well, blocks in the blockchain. When you are talking about splitting and auto-recombining of blocks, I think you mean that your UTXO's (unspent tx outputs) are getting combined in the stake transaction, but from quickly clicking through a few blocks in the block explorer I haven't been able to track down a live example of this happening.
I'd like to see it in the block explorer...
Trying to think of a way to explain what we mean. I guess even thought you are developing 2 coins, you haven't really lived in this world very long. Have you ever heard that thing people say about learning spanish in a classroom environment? I've always heard that if you learn spanish in the classroom, then go to Mexico and try to communicate with native spanish speakers, neither of you will understand each other even though you are both technically speaking the same language. You are like the guy that learned spanish in the classroom and we are like the natives. This isn't the point of my post, just thought it was an interesting and apt analogy. When we say blocks of coins we mean all of our chunks of coins that are eligible for staking. All of our stake eligible inputs you could also say. This would be what happens in a standard PoS transaction. Coins stake, the single (chunk, block, input) of coins splits and becomes 2. In this one, for some reason it was decided that these inputs would be too small if the block of coins were allowed to split into 2, so the coins stake and the earned stake is added but we only end up with 1 block of coins rather than the standard 2. Now this is the one that really bugs the piss out of me. Here, for some reason it is decided a whole group of inputs are too damn small, so the client sweeps them all into one during the stake transaction. I have never seen this happening before. Yes, exactly this happened to me too, I made small groups, like 178 XQN x 3, 200 XQN x 10 and so on....and it took my whole group of coins, like 8 groups, 1600 XQN and calculate like one, 16.18....personally, I don't like that, and before was much more better, and as I can notice many people left XQN because of that, I hope that solution will come very fast, or turn back to old, will be the best !! Maybe to make like 10 addresses and send to every address 200 coins, anybody try that ? Lmao.Can you tell who left because of this.Its been like this from start.I have been on this coin since day one and its always auto combined blocks |
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pisko
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January 08, 2015, 05:08:28 PM |
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hello
i want to ask if i can wait some reward with my 16k coins (3x5k,1x1k) which staking third day and nothing...
i had them on my windows wallet but after about 3k nonaccepted rewards and a lot of host disconnecteds and second errors i moved coins to my linux wallet and there they staking staking and just staking...
i have to wait or what... i seen there somethink with new dificulty or what but three day?!?
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myagui
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1154
Merit: 1001
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January 08, 2015, 05:19:45 PM |
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@pisko:
You need to update your wallet to the latest version (check the OP). Stakes generated by earlier wallet versions will only be staking "orphans", meaning, too large stakes, that will be refused by the network. In addition, I would recommend splitting your inputs to 500~1000 XQN tops. Even then, they will hit the new cap, 16.18 XQN reward.
With the current difficulty, and for the amount of coins you are holding, 3 days without staking is perfectly normal. It is much tougher to get a stake now, not just for you, but for everyone holding XQN.
Happy Staking!
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pisko
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January 08, 2015, 05:33:28 PM |
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@pisko:
You need to update your wallet to the latest version (check the OP). Stakes generated by earlier wallet versions will only be staking "orphans", meaning, too large stakes, that will be refused by the network. In addition, I would recommend splitting your inputs to 500~1000 XQN tops. Even then, they will hit the new cap, 16.18 XQN reward.
With the current difficulty, and for the amount of coins you are holding, 3 days without staking is perfectly normal. It is much tougher to get a stake now, not just for you, but for everyone holding XQN.
Happy Staking!
thanks for answer so it mean: sell that coins... i lost a enough yet with them and 16 coins for 1k XQN for staking few days is no more cool...  |
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