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Author Topic: GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :)  (Read 3209435 times)
jimmothy
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November 18, 2014, 09:43:52 AM
 #341

It's considered a security.

Securities Act of 1933:

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(1) The term “security” means any note, stock, treasury stock, security future, security-based swap, bond, debenture, evidence of indebtedness, certificate of interest or participation in any profit-sharing agreement, collateral-trust certificate, preorganization certificate or subscription, transferable share, investment contract, voting-trust certificate, certificate of deposit for a security, fractional undivided interest in oil, gas, or other mineral rights, any put, call, straddle, option, or privilege on any security, certificate of deposit, or group or index of securities (including any interest therein or based on the value thereof), or any put, call, straddle, option, or privilege entered into on a national securities exchange relating to foreign currency, or, in general, any interest or instrument commonly known as a “security”, or any certificate of interest or participation in, temporary or interim certificate for, receipt for, guarantee of, or warrant or right to subscribe to or purchase, any of the foregoing.


Quote from: GAW website
This is guarantees your investment is protected and secure
http://www.gawminers.com/pages/hashlet/

Does a "Digital Cloud Miner (DCM)" fall under the definition?  From what I can tell the product is marketed as miner rental, not a security.  I have an "investment" in CoinTerra and BFL in that I own and operate their hardware, I don't see the wording here implying this is anything other than hardware rental (even if it might be rental of a rental).

Anywho, I must sleep, I'm off for a bit.

The thing is, it doesn't matter how you word it. Participating in any profit sharing agreement is by definition a security.
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November 18, 2014, 09:48:01 AM
 #342

I have to admire his marketing genius. Say what you want, but he has changed the rules on his customers and instead of complaining they (by and large) are thanking him for the opportunity.

You mean on hashtalk? The place you've been banned from? Smiley

I don't know if a CEO trolling and moderating his own forum is really such a marketing genius. It just makes for a very stark contrast between what's on hashtalk and what's outside of it.

But overall yes, I have to agree with the general idea that this whole thing hangs on marketing. It's possible I guess to prop it up long enough for something tangible to come out of it, just like hashlets became antminers three months later.


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November 18, 2014, 09:56:17 AM
 #343

I thought they had been in business longer than that ... when did Gridseeds come out?  I remember considering getting LTC miners from them a long while back, has it only been half a year?  I suppose I thought they were around when I could still use a BFL Single to mine ... I forget they are a lot more recent.

Gridseeds came out in January I think. GAW started selling them in March. In August, i.e. 5 months later they started the hashlet thing.

tf, not all of their sales were drop shipped. They did some distribution here in the US, and their current datacenter in Hattiesburg seems to have started as a shipping warehouse.

They did fail quite miserably though with the logistics. Couldn't quite master how to ship on time or how to handle returns or how to provide customer support.

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November 18, 2014, 10:06:20 AM
 #344

Does a "Digital Cloud Miner (DCM)" fall under the definition?  From what I can tell the product is marketed as miner rental, not a security.  I have an "investment" in CoinTerra and BFL in that I own and operate their hardware, I don't see the wording here implying this is anything other than hardware rental (even if it might be rental of a rental).

Anywho, I must sleep, I'm off for a bit.

I'll leave this for when you wake up Smiley

http://www.gawminers.com/pages/terms-conditions
https://zenminer.com/cloud/terms.html

Bonus points for spotting differences between the above and the older versions here, they tend to tweak them regularly:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=720844.msg9401341#msg9401341

To me it looks like they have been rewording the "virtual" parts of hashlet definition to make it look LESS like a security, but I might be wrong.

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November 18, 2014, 11:14:58 AM
 #345

Does a "Digital Cloud Miner (DCM)" fall under the definition?  From what I can tell the product is marketed as miner rental, not a security.  I have an "investment" in CoinTerra and BFL in that I own and operate their hardware, I don't see the wording here implying this is anything other than hardware rental (even if it might be rental of a rental).

Anywho, I must sleep, I'm off for a bit.

I'll leave this for when you wake up Smiley

http://www.gawminers.com/pages/terms-conditions
https://zenminer.com/cloud/terms.html

Bonus points for spotting differences between the above and the older versions here, they tend to tweak them regularly:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=720844.msg9401341#msg9401341

To me it looks like they have been rewording the "virtual" parts of hashlet definition to make it look LESS like a security, but I might be wrong.


I think you have the right of it. It appears that their lawyers had them change the wording in an attempt to make sure their products would not be considered securties under either the '33 law or the '34 act.
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November 18, 2014, 02:03:17 PM
 #346

Who found out the Cantor Fitzgerald connection in the old thread? Sorry, I'm too lazy to look it up.

Well, congratulations, it's confirmed:

https://twitter.com/gawceo/status/534544726402564096

Quote
Looking forward to our meeting with the guys at Cantor Fitzgerald tomorrow

Thanks =)
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November 18, 2014, 02:34:14 PM
Last edit: November 18, 2014, 02:45:48 PM by crashoveride54902
 #347

Looks like a lot of the industry hardware players are joining forces and taking a stance as well. Even if I am not a huge fan of Zeus, I applaud their latest partnership with Gridseed and the message they are all trying to send.

Scott-

http://i.imgur.com/mAoa9M6.png

Nice...looks like all those challenges are aimed at gaw lol

And hot damn the brainwashed ppl unite https://hashtalk.org/topic/18558/zeushash-advocates-transparence-in-mining-industry/11

Dreams of cyprto solving everything is slowly slipping away...Replaced by scams/hacks Sad
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November 18, 2014, 02:55:47 PM
 #348

Looks like a lot of the industry hardware players are joining forces and taking a stance as well. Even if I am not a huge fan of Zeus, I applaud their latest partnership with Gridseed and the message they are all trying to send.

Scott-


wow just seeing this makes me so proud almost brings tear to my eyes of joy. I doubt many companies will do th echallage for security reasons or they cants disclose the magical code they use to produce better hash results. I also applaud all this companies for all the good efforts to be more customer service friendly. Only thing left is for them to run the mining farms of renewable green energy that would be awsome. Future of energy powering the future of financial world  Smiley

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November 18, 2014, 05:14:05 PM
 #349

Looks like a lot of the industry hardware players are joining forces and taking a stance as well. Even if I am not a huge fan of Zeus, I applaud their latest partnership with Gridseed and the message they are all trying to send.

Scott-

http://i.imgur.com/mAoa9M6.png

Nice...looks like all those challenges are aimed at gaw lol

And hot damn the brainwashed ppl unite https://hashtalk.org/topic/18558/zeushash-advocates-transparence-in-mining-industry/11
Let's see what HashTitan's followers say when Bitmain makes the full-transition and joins the group/alliance on a public level.

Scott-
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November 18, 2014, 06:20:42 PM
 #350

"Never go full ponzi!" Holy hell, I can't stop laughing! Smiley This is some good reading.  http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2l82kd/gaw_miners_to_ipo_hashcoin_guarantees_returns_of/
jimmothy
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November 18, 2014, 06:52:51 PM
 #351

One of the better posts I've read so far. I like what they're doing, although the hashcoin concept can be a bit difficult to comprehend.
If they are really backed by whales, chances are they will succeed. Josh is doing a good job as the face of the company because he's constantly in the center of attention. Some people like him and some don't but they all keep talking about him and following his messages.
I'm ready to watch the show Smiley

What exactly do you like about it?

What features other than the promise of profit/success?
suchmoon
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November 18, 2014, 06:55:39 PM
 #352

CEO's Troll FUD Guide:

https://hashtalk.org/topic/18616

Quote
GAW_CEO
Admins
Global Moderator
Industry Innovator

Notice: Troll FUD Guide

I typically just ignore trolls. But, I know it creates confusion, especially to people that are new. So I want to arm you with facts :grinning:

Like any company we get our fair share of trolls. In our case, they primarily live under the btctalk and reddit bridge. They will use words like scam, ponzi, etc. More recently, they are asking other trolls to file reports against us with the SEC, etc. Don't let them scare you, that' their job. And a troll is not doing their job if they are not creating issues.

The most important thing in coming to your own conclusions is evidence and context.

Context
Always look at the trolls post history. You will find that about 80% of them post the same thing over and over again. More importantly, it will be the only thing they ever post about. What does that tell you? Thats called a troll.

The inverse is also quite true too. If you see, what seems to be, a troll post something negative and generally their comment history is reasonable. Then thats something to take more seriously.

Facts and Evidence
Always look for facts and evidence. When a troll alleges we have done X wrong, ask them to provide some evidence. They will either provide none, and just tell you they "know" its true. Or they will try the "well they have not proven other wise" approach. Luckily, we live in a country where you do not automatically become guilty of something because you have chosen to not respond :grinning:

Let me share something with you all (and trolls).

My attorneys regularly deal with all these agencies (FTC, FCC, etc). In almost all cases, the only times these guys get involved is when a loss happens. In other words, something has to go wrong before they act.

For example, with BFL or MT Gox. In those cases there was a loss. People lost money, that was their claim.

None of these departments will do anything when there is no claim.You can report anything you want for any reason. You can tell them "I think something is going on over there" (which is what all these guys are doing), and they are going to say "ok, let me know when something is a issue"

For example, take a look at this guy:
https://miningadvocates.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=11

"Confirmed"? By the vary nature of filing a report makes it confirmed. So it already starts off making no sense (he does it to create the illusion of sounding important). Notice the rest of it "Formal Securities Fraud Investigation Requested with the SEC "

Anyone can do that for any reason. I could, literally, go down to the pizza shop next store, make up a reason, and file a report on them. It means nothing. There has to be an actual loss.

When you look at what these trolls write, you will see one thing in common. There is no actual loss. The closest thing would be accounts that got put on hold (which were put on holds for reason). But, notice that none of these guys bring up any dollar amount. Its because they don't have one and nothing has been taken. In fact, most of these guys still do business with us!

GAW has never taken anything from someone and not given them what the purchased. If this ever becomes the case email our support email address and attention it to me, and I will address myself.

Does this make sense? Next time your dealing with a troll, just link them here.

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November 18, 2014, 07:08:03 PM
 #353

CEO's Troll FUD Guide:

https://hashtalk.org/topic/18616

Quote
GAW_CEO
Admins
Global Moderator
Industry Innovator

Notice: Troll FUD Guide

I typically just ignore trolls. But, I know it creates confusion, especially to people that are new. So I want to arm you with facts :grinning:

Like any company we get our fair share of trolls. In our case, they primarily live under the btctalk and reddit bridge. They will use words like scam, ponzi, etc. More recently, they are asking other trolls to file reports against us with the SEC, etc. Don't let them scare you, that' their job. And a troll is not doing their job if they are not creating issues.

The most important thing in coming to your own conclusions is evidence and context.

Context
Always look at the trolls post history. You will find that about 80% of them post the same thing over and over again. More importantly, it will be the only thing they ever post about. What does that tell you? Thats called a troll.

The inverse is also quite true too. If you see, what seems to be, a troll post something negative and generally their comment history is reasonable. Then thats something to take more seriously.

Facts and Evidence
Always look for facts and evidence. When a troll alleges we have done X wrong, ask them to provide some evidence. They will either provide none, and just tell you they "know" its true. Or they will try the "well they have not proven other wise" approach. Luckily, we live in a country where you do not automatically become guilty of something because you have chosen to not respond :grinning:

Let me share something with you all (and trolls).

My attorneys regularly deal with all these agencies (FTC, FCC, etc). In almost all cases, the only times these guys get involved is when a loss happens. In other words, something has to go wrong before they act.

For example, with BFL or MT Gox. In those cases there was a loss. People lost money, that was their claim.

None of these departments will do anything when there is no claim.You can report anything you want for any reason. You can tell them "I think something is going on over there" (which is what all these guys are doing), and they are going to say "ok, let me know when something is a issue"

For example, take a look at this guy:
https://miningadvocates.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=11

"Confirmed"? By the vary nature of filing a report makes it confirmed. So it already starts off making no sense (he does it to create the illusion of sounding important). Notice the rest of it "Formal Securities Fraud Investigation Requested with the SEC "

Anyone can do that for any reason. I could, literally, go down to the pizza shop next store, make up a reason, and file a report on them. It means nothing. There has to be an actual loss.

When you look at what these trolls write, you will see one thing in common. There is no actual loss. The closest thing would be accounts that got put on hold (which were put on holds for reason). But, notice that none of these guys bring up any dollar amount. Its because they don't have one and nothing has been taken. In fact, most of these guys still do business with us!

GAW has never taken anything from someone and not given them what the purchased. If this ever becomes the case email our support email address and attention it to me, and I will address myself.

Does this make sense? Next time your dealing with a troll, just link them here.

This guys really more of a moron than we give him credit for. "they primarily live under the btctalk and reddit bridge" does he mean the other forums that he cant sensor like hashtalk? Everything this guy writes is just smoke and fucking mirrors.
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November 18, 2014, 07:22:06 PM
 #354

Good point though

... where you do not automatically become guilty of something because you have chosen to not respond...

jimmothy
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November 18, 2014, 07:24:18 PM
 #355

One of the better posts I've read so far. I like what they're doing, although the hashcoin concept can be a bit difficult to comprehend.
If they are really backed by whales, chances are they will succeed. Josh is doing a good job as the face of the company because he's constantly in the center of attention. Some people like him and some don't but they all keep talking about him and following his messages.
I'm ready to watch the show Smiley

What exactly do you like about it?

What features other than the promise of profit/success?

Are you asking about the coin or the way he promotes it?

Look at the altcoin business at the moment. There's so many and still, once in a while one makes it to the exchange. Some even get their own board of directors. Why shouldn't this one?

I'm asking only about the coin.

You say you like it, what about?
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November 18, 2014, 07:44:31 PM
 #356

CEO's Troll FUD Guide:

https://hashtalk.org/topic/18616


Mr. Garza and his law firm have been put on notice they cannot contact, intimidate or threaten potential witnesses or any party who has properly filed a federal agency complaint against his operation and THIS is his answer? Uhmm... OK...

Let's leave it to the Feds to interpret the law and decide who has or has not lost anything playing the Mt. GAW securities game.

Scott-


Ref:
18 USC §1513(e) in the context of what is defined within §1107 of the Sarbanes Oxley Act of 2002.
crashoveride54902
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November 18, 2014, 08:01:32 PM
 #357

If Josh hates this forum/thread so much why doesn't he post anything on here to defend his precious company image? Huh Huh

Dreams of cyprto solving everything is slowly slipping away...Replaced by scams/hacks Sad
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November 18, 2014, 08:26:58 PM
 #358

If Josh hates this forum/thread so much why doesn't he post anything on here to defend his precious company image? Huh Huh

Maybe he's afraid to get downvoted and banned. Oh, wait...

He doesn't seem like a person who takes criticism well, so why would he go outside of warm and cozy hashtalk. It's also very convenient to lump the whole spectrum of his critics - from outright ponzi accusers to customers just asking questions - into one big "troll" scarecrow, without having to address anything he doesn't like to talk about. This plays well into the general HT opinion that the rest of the world just doesn't get how great the hashlets/hashcoins/hash-of-the-day are.

Honeycutt22
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November 18, 2014, 08:41:42 PM
 #359

CEO's Troll FUD Guide:

https://hashtalk.org/topic/18616


Mr. Garza and his law firm have been put on notice they cannot contact, intimidate or threaten potential witnesses or any party who has properly filed a federal agency complaint against his operation and THIS is his answer? Uhmm... OK...

Let's leave it to the Feds to interpret the law and decide who has or has not lost anything playing the Mt. GAW securities game.

Scott-


Ref:
18 USC §1513(e) in the context of what is defined within §1107 of the Sarbanes Oxley Act of 2002.

What do you mean out on notice?
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November 18, 2014, 08:44:21 PM
 #360

One of the better posts I've read so far. I like what they're doing, although the hashcoin concept can be a bit difficult to comprehend.
If they are really backed by whales, chances are they will succeed. Josh is doing a good job as the face of the company because he's constantly in the center of attention. Some people like him and some don't but they all keep talking about him and following his messages.
I'm ready to watch the show Smiley

What exactly do you like about it?

What features other than the promise of profit/success?

Are you asking about the coin or the way he promotes it?

Look at the altcoin business at the moment. There's so many and still, once in a while one makes it to the exchange. Some even get their own board of directors. Why shouldn't this one?

I'm asking only about the coin.

You say you like it, what about?

I said I like what they are doing as a company. GAW was my first cloud mining experience and I enjoyed it. I also like the fact they are trying to promote mining outside the closed circle of crypto enthusiatsts.
The concept of their coin is something completely new to me, just like cryprocurrency was 6 months ago, so I'm not the best person to go into details with. One thing I like is that it's backed by money and hardware from the start and have their own community ready to mine.


You think mr garza wants to make a coin, back it with his money and machinery, then allow everyone to swap his promisary notes for said machinery and monies ?  

He would end up with nothing but his own useless promisary notes ?

He wants your cold hard cash / mining power in return for promisary notes.

He wants to take not give.....  time to wake up friend.
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