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Author Topic: GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :)  (Read 3209134 times)
verloren
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November 21, 2014, 05:33:10 PM
 #721

But from that address it's only a few more hops until you reach 18Yrkm5cRqT1MiqwAUBDcN64hWb1pLutsW which receives it's BTC from 1P62VZZ9kL97dzzcWhG7JZDssaW2MDgn82.

<Snip>

Following the trail I noticed that there are tons of addresses receiving miniscule amounts of btc (less than 0.0005).

This seemed strange considering the withdrawal fee is 0.0001 so I decided to follow the btc.

Look at these addresses:

https://blockchain.info/address/1FvFfnuMxYnaiKMBuRNdcEYkPoQMGx7Cg5
https://blockchain.info/address/1MCGWXnKEgKCSfmZcK67gg1k3gWdbwhfvK
https://blockchain.info/address/1CqBSkWkoxRJv1YMxZVkn2G2iMHxGva7RF
https://blockchain.info/address/1M6m9Lh9XtYsKbfPYcm7Bm9FJ186FJZU9d
https://blockchain.info/address/18iTDLS7qT72KkWXC9s8bWfe8cTu7vnQ1o
https://blockchain.info/address/19LusNnuBSaK9P1w18aXboqHeuPyhHEob4

<snip>
If you go to the origin address https://blockchain.info/address/1P62VZZ9kL97dzzcWhG7JZDssaW2MDgn82

First you will notice that none of the received btc originate from mining.

Second you will notice that the BTC 1P6 receives comes from a shit ton of addresses which received their BTC from none other than 1P6.

TLDR:

- No BTC originating from mining
- hundreds of fake addresses receiving payouts which are almost immediately sent back to the origin address
Two of my own withdrawals ended up at 18Yrkm5cRqT1MiqwAUBDcN64hWb1pLutsW and 1P62VZZ9kL97dzzcWhG7JZDssaW2MDgn8 too.

The transaction which eventually led to my BTC withdrawal also had a concurrent transaction ending at this address: 3HxJoT5L3aSuKKzNaLWyPiPVyZ6UJRVZGd
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tomewok
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November 21, 2014, 05:40:06 PM
 #722

Josh just lifted my shadow ban after a mail i sent him, he said that it was a mistake.
Honeycutt22
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November 21, 2014, 05:41:55 PM
 #723

Josh just lifted my shadow ban after a mail i sent him, he said that it was a mistake.

LOL - it was a mistake only because they got caught and called out on it. I too was recently shadowed banned for no reason by Josh.

I "think" it was because I made a reference to BCT and some of it being accurate... After someone kool-aid kid said it's all troll speak and random chat.

edit - Just curious.. Did he has you to mention the ban lift in the forums?
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November 21, 2014, 05:43:05 PM
 #724


These questions you guys are sending me have ALL been addressed at some point in time on Hashtalk. There's really nothing new or illuminating that I'm offering here that Josh hasn't revealed himself or at least hinted at before. This is why I'm saying that instead of just listening to one or two uninformed people and repeating what they have to say more loudly, you should do the research yourself, and ask questions respectfully, and you'll eventually get the answers you need or want, if it's possible to do so. I get it that there's a mob mentality to this kind of community and it's easy to be lazy and get caught up in the pitchfork and torch thing... but if you really want to get to the heart of it, ignore the koolaid comments in hashtalk and ask your questions there in a respectful way without unsubstantiated claims or accusations and someone is likely to help you understand what's going on there.

First, thank you for answering the questions I posted in a concise manner. Smiley

The biggest problem is that you won't find any answers on HashTalk. There has been a steady stream of people who have been shadow banned on HashTalk for asking questions. Hell, a guy on here got shadow banned for correcting Josh about it being CCN not CNN that they did the interview with. I'd understand if these people were outright trolling on HashTalk, but asking serious questions about PayCoin and their products shouldn't be shadow banned. It didn't use to be that way back when the forum first went up, and its gotten a lot worse since ZenPool went to crap.



Honeycutt22
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November 21, 2014, 05:44:54 PM
 #725


These questions you guys are sending me have ALL been addressed at some point in time on Hashtalk. There's really nothing new or illuminating that I'm offering here that Josh hasn't revealed himself or at least hinted at before. This is why I'm saying that instead of just listening to one or two uninformed people and repeating what they have to say more loudly, you should do the research yourself, and ask questions respectfully, and you'll eventually get the answers you need or want, if it's possible to do so. I get it that there's a mob mentality to this kind of community and it's easy to be lazy and get caught up in the pitchfork and torch thing... but if you really want to get to the heart of it, ignore the koolaid comments in hashtalk and ask your questions there in a respectful way without unsubstantiated claims or accusations and someone is likely to help you understand what's going on there.

First, thank you for answering the questions I posted in a concise manner. Smiley

The biggest problem is that you won't find any answers on HashTalk. There has been a steady stream of people who have been shadow banned on HashTalk for asking questions. Hell, a guy on here got shadow banned for correcting Josh about it being CCN not CNN that they did the interview with. I'd understand if these people were outright trolling on HashTalk, but asking serious questions about PayCoin and their products shouldn't be shadow banned. It didn't use to be that way back when the forum first went up, and its gotten a lot worse since ZenPool went to crap.





Well.. I think a lot of it has to do with Paycoin's release... A lot of new attention will be on this and he's trying to control the bad side as much as possible. I peronally think the heavy censorship is counter productive because it brought the complaints to more forums and to a larger audience. It would have been safer to keep them just on HT.
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November 21, 2014, 05:48:04 PM
 #726

Two of my own withdrawals ended up at 18Yrkm5cRqT1MiqwAUBDcN64hWb1pLutsW and 1P62VZZ9kL97dzzcWhG7JZDssaW2MDgn8 too.

The transaction which eventually led to my BTC withdrawal also had a concurrent transaction ending at this address: 3HxJoT5L3aSuKKzNaLWyPiPVyZ6UJRVZGd
And a further update...One of the upstream wallet addresses has been receiving some BTC from freebitco.in.
https://blockchain.info/address/1Jxj7VJxVBPZTHJkff6yhGYxTYGvWy3mnH
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November 21, 2014, 05:50:29 PM
 #727

Well.. I think a lot of it has to do with Paycoin's release... A lot of new attention will be on this and he's trying to control the bad side as much as possible. I peronally think the heavy censorship is counter productive because it brought the complaints to more forums and to a larger audience. It would have been safer to keep them just on HT.

I agree. If Josh had just taken the tough questions head on they would have kept their user base happy. When you start shadow banning people, and refuse to provide evidence of mining (Among other questions). . . well it makes people question what's really going on.

IMO they've given up on BTC / Scrypt mining; just like they gave up on physical hardware sales. They keep changing the game on their customers, and now they have their customers riding everything on PayCoin. It's not going to be pretty when / if PayCoin falls apart.
Honeycutt22
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November 21, 2014, 05:52:57 PM
 #728

Well.. I think a lot of it has to do with Paycoin's release... A lot of new attention will be on this and he's trying to control the bad side as much as possible. I peronally think the heavy censorship is counter productive because it brought the complaints to more forums and to a larger audience. It would have been safer to keep them just on HT.

I agree. If Josh had just taken the tough questions head on they would have kept their user base happy. When you start shadow banning people, and refuse to provide evidence of mining (Among other questions). . . well it makes people question what's really going on.

IMO they've given up on BTC / Scrypt mining; just like they gave up on physical hardware sales. They keep changing the game on their customers, and now they have their customers riding everything on PayCoin. It's not going to be pretty when / if PayCoin falls apart.

In fairness to Josh - He stated long ago his focus was NOT on mining.. He created the cloud business to solidify his customer base. This was a stepping stone to his coin project. This was always his primary focus.
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November 21, 2014, 05:57:23 PM
 #729

Just curious.. Did he has you to mention the ban lift in the forums?

Nope, did it by myself the only thing he told me was this :

"Looks like it was just a mistake. I have fixed it Smiley


Josh Garza
CEO- GAW Corp"
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November 21, 2014, 05:59:01 PM
 #730

That's bad and the hashtalk strict censoring is perhaps one of the biggest red flags IMO.  
As of late anyone who provides any constructive criticism, asks a legitimate question (such as yourself) or lets just call it what it is, isnt a GAW cheerleader is banned/shadow banned or has their comments deleted.

Listen even though we all have our suspicions nobody truly knows if this whole "Paycoin" campaign is legit or not.
-It could be the next big thing.
-It could be a great idea but ruined by incompetence/arrogance (most likely in my opinion)
-It could be a huge scam.

But when you censor anyone who provides any sort of doubt or raises legit questions it screams stay away or get the hell out while you can.
 

It actually is not a red flag, at least to me. The forum is not a requirement, only an option and you have to know and accept their rules when going there.
If you don't like the restriction you can use it to read the announcements and don't have to write anything.

What if I made a forum that had in the rules "posting pictures is not allowed" and you started arguing that all other forums allow it and I banned you for it? Would that be my fault or your fault? Cheesy

I think you're over simplifying the issue... Also - Nothing on the forums states you can't post criticism.
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November 21, 2014, 06:03:42 PM
 #731

Josh just lifted my shadow ban after a mail i sent him, he said that it was a mistake.

So he owned up to a mistake on his part. Sounds like he did the right thing by you. Glad to hear that.

LOL - It's a "mistake" to click on someone's profile that posts a question that may seem critical (if paranoid), and then consequently goes through with the process of banning him? While I'm sure it's a relatively simple thing to do, it's also very intentional. As only admins can shadow ban, very few have the ability - So was Josh himself, or possibly Volder.

Now you turn it around like he did something good.. This is like when they were going to charge for using DD and the community rioted. Then Josh came around and spinned it like not charging something he said he'd never charge in the first place was giving the community something..

edit - Was part of your deal to get that new super rare legendary hashlet to come on here and post propaganda?
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November 21, 2014, 06:06:29 PM
 #732

edit - Was part of your deal to get that new super rare legendary hashlet to come on here and post propaganda?

Please be respectful as per rootdude's rules he established here Grin

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November 21, 2014, 06:07:59 PM
 #733

edit - Was part of your deal to get that new super rare legendary hashlet to come on here and post propaganda?

Please be respectful as per rootdude's rules he established here Grin

It's an honest question. It's more than a coincidence  several forums have had long-time GAW supporters just show up outta the blue. It's just another indicator of manipulation and masking tactics.

edit - Also, I don't treat full grown men like children by being "nice" when they have ulterior motives and suspect background. I would expect the same such treatment if I had suspicious motives for anything I post.
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November 21, 2014, 06:09:32 PM
 #734

First just want to say, thanks for responding to my questions. I would just like you to try to think a little more critically. Let me respond to your answers.

Quote
  • What is the status of the ZenPool "negoitiations"? It was promised by GAW CEO that the pool would return to levels the same, if not GREATER than before. This has been forgotten about... - I know about as much about this as you do. The negotiations were said to be completed, and it's my opinion that Josh is waiting for a strategic time to restore the payouts for the ZenPool closer to the ICO. In the past he's stood behind his branded offerings and services (Zen and GAW brands are important to him) - so many of us are being patient and waiting for this to happen. It's been about a week or so since the negotiations were completed... should be soon-ish, I suppose.

Come on.. admit it. This is very sketchy. Negotiations have been completed, but payouts still haven't been restored? Any normal person would see this is as manipulation tactics (not even getting into conspiracy theories about payout drops since the prime mishap). It seems zenpool had very high payouts to entice early adopters and rewarded them generously. (again this is their main fan base) Bait and switch anyone?


Quote
  • Why can't I use hashpoints to buy new miners? I'm stuck at either collecting satoshis (i believe the maint fees eat up about 90% of payouts) or collecting store credit and having faith on a future project. Wouldn't it benefit GAW to allow me to buy new miners/sell them and they make 10% profit? Atleast it gives people a way out.. but this has been denied. - About the same time as the ICO was announced, HP were no longer able to be used for purchases of Hashlets. The reasoning goes that there seems to be little sense to spend HP on more hashing power (Hashlets) when there is a much better way to profit from them in preparing for the HP to PayCoin conversion. I'd have preferred Josh leave open the option, but he chose not to. If you thought that GAW was scammy, why would you use HP to buy more mining power anyway? Doesn't make sense to me, but to each his own. You do have other choices, of course. You could re-adjust your Hashlet allocations by selling your Zens and buying Genesis and not have any option to mine the HP / Paycoins... that's up to you. Genesis is every bit as profitable as BTC mining with sha256 rigs (I have some Genesis mixed in with my Zens and Primes so I get a decent amount of BTC everyday to go with my HP for the ICO.

Like you said, there should be an option. You are being forcefed hashpoints if you are desperately trying to hit ROI since your payouts dropped significantly. I suggested using HP to buy more mining power, so that they can be then sold for BTC and thus you actually got some funds from your "mining hashlets".

Quote
  • Why aren't there any details as when hashpoints will be converted? Hashcoin.com had a countdown but now it redirects to paycoin with no info about release date but an email update. - There are details about it. The timeline has been published... Round two (HP to PayCoin) conversion for customers is due to occur at the end of Round 2. Had been due to occur in the next six days, though Josh recently stated that he may allow some more time for customers to collect more HP, which is something I personally appreciated (YMMV of course - if you believe it's all a scam, well, I'm sure you wouldn't be trying to collect all the HP you could).

 Well what I meant was an exact date. Again we are being spoon-fed. Why not open hashbase and let the people decide if they want to hold onto their altcoin at that moment? What i'm getting at here is every announcement made has the inclination to infer "Gaw knows best" "Don't hesistate, just accept it." "People who complain/bring concerns shouldn't invest with us and they're trolls"

Quote
  • Why, when asked, does GAW CEO respond "just dont invest with me then" as an answer to any technical questions? - Not trying to compare GAW/Josh with any other company like Apple or HP, but what kind of answers do you think you'd get out of Tim Cook if you asked him for the specs and pictures of the iPhone 6s? Not much, right? Well, it's the same thing in my opinion. Hashlets have already inspired a few companies to create their own versions (ZeusMiner, Hashie, etc.) - he's releasing enough information to allow people some idea of the roadmap without giving away all his plans to his competition. I think that's a pretty fair thing to do. Again, if you don't think so, he's saying to you, well, go ahead and invest elsewhere. There are choices you can make, right?
  • Why do you have so much faith in one man? As far as I can tell, the main supporters of GAW are the early adopters. Those who bought hashlets at 16$, were converted to prime and made ROI already. What do you have to lose? Nothing.... and this is why your are so faithful... but ask the same question to someone who just bought in in october and payouts dropped 90% - I don't have faith in one man. I have faith in a company and the people who work there. Seems like folks want to focus on Josh, but there's a lot of people working behind the scenes that make what they do work. They have offices, they have assets (miners, DC's)... And I know some of them pretty well having spoken to them, emailed them - they are real people, with real families, doing real jobs, with real equipment. I have plenty of 'skin-in-the-game' and a long relationship with GAW, Josh, Eric, Amber, Jeff, Josiah and many, many others there. I know they work hard at what they do, and more often than not are successful with their projects, and I happen to be a customer who has benefitted and will likely continue to benefit from being involved. As to the part about more recent investors who weren't in early, the whole HP / Paycoin project was designed specifically to allow those folks to have some stake in the next big ROI event. Again, you can choose to be a part of it, or not - that's entirely up to you.


 I understand the point you're trying to make. The thing is, what is being asked, isn't trademark secrets. Unfortunately, hashlets are defined in such a way that they aren't defined as securities. This allows the company to not have to release any type of earning reports. The customer receives a "dividend" but is told not to think of it as such, and no one really knows where the money came from or what expenses were made. Right now GAW is taking out a free loan on everyone who is mining hashpoints. Again my point comes around again. The only reason people trust gaw is not FACTS, but faith.

I guess maybe he was successful in creating a cult of personality
 
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November 21, 2014, 06:14:30 PM
 #735

That's bad and the hashtalk strict censoring is perhaps one of the biggest red flags IMO.  
As of late anyone who provides any constructive criticism, asks a legitimate question (such as yourself) or lets just call it what it is, isnt a GAW cheerleader is banned/shadow banned or has their comments deleted.

Listen even though we all have our suspicions nobody truly knows if this whole "Paycoin" campaign is legit or not.
-It could be the next big thing.
-It could be a great idea but ruined by incompetence/arrogance (most likely in my opinion)
-It could be a huge scam.

But when you censor anyone who provides any sort of doubt or raises legit questions it screams stay away or get the hell out while you can.
 

It actually is not a red flag, at least to me. The forum is not a requirement, only an option and you have to know and accept their rules when going there.
If you don't like the restriction you can use it to read the announcements and don't have to write anything.

What if I made a forum that had in the rules "posting pictures is not allowed" and you started arguing that all other forums allow it and I banned you for it? Would that be my fault or your fault? Cheesy

You don't think addressing your customers concerns by removing their posts is a red flag? 
Does it say in their rules that you must agree 100% with what they are doing and never question anything?

I'm not talking about people who are just blasting GAW or are doing nothing but trying to spread FUD.  Yes those type of posts need to go. 
I am talking about people with legitimate concerns who are voicing them in a constructive manner and their posts are being deleted or their are banned.
cryptofunk
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November 21, 2014, 06:15:30 PM
 #736

That's bad and the hashtalk strict censoring is perhaps one of the biggest red flags IMO.  
As of late anyone who provides any constructive criticism, asks a legitimate question (such as yourself) or lets just call it what it is, isnt a GAW cheerleader is banned/shadow banned or has their comments deleted.

Listen even though we all have our suspicions nobody truly knows if this whole "Paycoin" campaign is legit or not.
-It could be the next big thing.
-It could be a great idea but ruined by incompetence/arrogance (most likely in my opinion)
-It could be a huge scam.

But when you censor anyone who provides any sort of doubt or raises legit questions it screams stay away or get the hell out while you can.
 

It actually is not a red flag, at least to me. The forum is not a requirement, only an option and you have to know and accept their rules when going there.
If you don't like the restriction you can use it to read the announcements and don't have to write anything.

What if I made a forum that had in the rules "posting pictures is not allowed" and you started arguing that all other forums allow it and I banned you for it? Would that be my fault or your fault? Cheesy

You're missing the entire point, most people shadow banned didn't break any rule, Josh bans people for asking constructive questions or simply bringing up misguided statements on his part.  Nothing against any of the rules, just an abuse of power.
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November 21, 2014, 06:15:57 PM
 #737

I think the problem is in the way people are being critical. Take this thread for example. I could show you some critical posts to compare and the differences in tone would be striking.

I've seen this argument so many times on HT and I still have no clue what is the correct way to ask a question there. The bans are so random it doesn't make any sense. Shadow bans don't make any sense period. With a regular ban you can at least see the banned user, see his/her post history and perhaps learn something about what could have caused the ban. What possible reason could there be to shadow ban a 1000+ post user?

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November 21, 2014, 06:21:40 PM
 #738

Josh just lifted my shadow ban after a mail i sent him, he said that it was a mistake.

So he owned up to a mistake on his part. Sounds like he did the right thing by you. Glad to hear that.

Not really, someone brought up to his attention that he was getting bad press for it and he removed the shadow ban to look good.  I have two accounts that same way (gave up on HT), I have no problem posting my 200 posts to Reddit for someone to tell me what I have done wrong.  This is a pattern and Josh isn't fixing anything by removing the ban on a single user. 

Edit:
The fact that he's the only one with the ability to remove a shadow ban speaks volume. 
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November 21, 2014, 06:23:02 PM
 #739

edit - Was part of your deal to get that new super rare legendary hashlet to come on here and post propaganda?

Please be respectful as per rootdude's rules he established here Grin

It's an honest question. It's more than a coincidence  several forums have had long-time GAW supporters just show up outta the blue. It's just another indicator of manipulation and masking tactics.

edit - Also, I don't treat full grown men like children by being "nice" when they have ulterior motives and suspect background. I would expect the same such treatment if I had suspicious motives for anything I post.

I'm with you there. I'm just mildly amused by rootdude's arrogance with that "no shill" rule that's all. But he's been answering questions, so let's give him that.

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November 21, 2014, 06:25:26 PM
 #740

edit - Was part of your deal to get that new super rare legendary hashlet to come on here and post propaganda?

Please be respectful as per rootdude's rules he established here Grin

It's an honest question. It's more than a coincidence  several forums have had long-time GAW supporters just show up outta the blue. It's just another indicator of manipulation and masking tactics.

edit - Also, I don't treat full grown men like children by being "nice" when they have ulterior motives and suspect background. I would expect the same such treatment if I had suspicious motives for anything I post.

I'm with you there. I'm just mildly amused by rootdude's arrogance with that "no shill" rule that's all. But he's been answering questions, so let's give him that.

Okay... I'll give that inch!
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