GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :)

[maildir]

"Stuart Fraser" I believe is only 50 y/o. How old is Josh. 30? Rather how old could his wife be? More interestingly is that Stuart and Josh look remarkably alike.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrLwglqmh5w

Though that would seem rather far fetched, what might be more likely given the incredibly tragic circumstances of Cantor Fitzgerald and Stuart's involvement with GAW Wireless only a year there after, perhaps there is a sad tie-in there since they went above and beyond with their employee families and continue to do so today.

[numanoid]

You misunderstand the purpose of the plug in. The plug in makes it appear when you browse say Amazon.com, that the prices are in BTC or Paycoin. click buy whatever product it, converts it on the fly, pays out to Amazon.com in dollars and debits your BTC or Paycoin account. As you indicate.  No real point to it other than to make it appear as so. IF and let us see them grab this idea as I propose it, if as a collective there is a discount in bulk buying or buyers brought forward by paybase, it could make sense that you use this illusion. Otherwise you would be better off buying from Amazon directly with dollars. It is all an unnecessary step simply to make it all appear as though you are using a crypto currency to buy anything from anywhere. Someone somewhere has to take a piece of the pie to convert the crypto currency and pay out on the back end in dollars.

How is this different than either a native payment in BTC (uses an API to determine BTC value from fiat) or coinbase where you cash out and then purchase?

If said plugin works on major retailers, what is the downside of using it as opposed to fiat?  How does it differ from BTC?

[numanoid]

http://genius.com/Josh-garza-confidential-notice-annotated/

Coinfire threatened by Josh Garza

WTF is the point of this other than sabre rattling?  STFU and let the lawyers serve them and go from there.  So sick of this BS.

[maildir]

It is incredibly deceitful, that is how most scam ASIC scrypt miner companies began, by initially pretending to be fully funded, tricking people into thinking all you are paying for is your device, the taking the pre-order money, then slowly revealing you are part of a crowd funding endeavor and your funds are what is financing the venture from the get go.

If you review the check-list here everything is correct, all the bones for the skeleton are in place, yet there is no meat anywhere to be found

- register domain names - check
- create websites - check
- trade mark names - check
- make patents - check

But there is no content, wishy washy ideas being floated around daily, ever changing depending on the feedback.

Buy hashcoin. com, trademark hashcoin, reveal hashcoin, crowd roars disapproval, buy paycoin.com, trademark paycoin crowd roars approval, now what? How do we fill in the blank guys? Give us some ideas what to do and how to do it please.

It is an interesting situation to observe in real time, quite a novel approach to starting a new business actually, whether it culminates in anything viable at the end of the day, remains to be seen.

On your first point, I agree, but how do you see this connecting to GAW?  Speak plainly.  I don't see a clear connection to your second point.

On your second point, I thought I was the only person who saw that.  It's not discussed at HT, but is clear as day to me and is, BY FAR, my biggest red flag.

On the first point is that they do not really have a product in hand or even a road map, but have been pretending that they do. As you and I mentioned they appear to be making things up on the fly.

Like the ASIC scrypt scammer companies, they pretended that they had their finance in hand, had spent their own money to develop the ASIC themselves, and that all they need to do is sell the nearly finished product i.e. the pre-order. Truth being none of that is true.  The need to the pre-order to commence from the actual beginning. That is retain a design house, commission a feasibility study, pay for that with the pre-order money, commence a batch 2 pre-order sale, in the hopes that that will be sufficient to pay for tape-out and assembly.

The the same vein GAW made it a appear like they have a product and road map, pretended that they had signed up vendors who welcome their new coin, got everyone excited enough to sign up, now as we see none of that is true, they are still fiddling around trying to decide what to actually do. They got the sign ups, they got the names, they got the domains, they trade marked it all, but they don't have any product -- yet.

[verloren]

You misunderstand the purpose of the plug in. The plug in makes it appear when you browse say Amazon.com, that the prices are in BTC or Paycoin. click buy whatever product it, converts it on the fly, pays out to Amazon.com in dollars and debits your BTC or Paycoin account. As you indicate.  No real point to it other than to make it appear as so. IF and let us see them grab this idea as I propose it, if as a collective there is a discount in bulk buying or buyers brought forward by paybase, it could make sense that you use this illusion. Otherwise you would be better off buying from Amazon directly with dollars. It is all an unnecessary step simply to make it all appear as though you are using a crypto currency to buy anything from anywhere. Someone somewhere has to take a piece of the pie to convert the crypto currency and pay out on the back end in dollars.

At this point, it looks very similar to what SnapCard had running.

This Paybase announcement is interesting.

Seems like quite the ambitious project, and they're entering into the minefield of FINCEN regulations. I wonder what method they'll use to verify the identity of their clients?

I hope they're prepared for that.

Apparently they only opened up a job posting for a regulatory affairs person recently.

There's going to be a lot of KYC/AML stuff involved in this that most bitcoiners won't be happy with.

So I've found GAW's actual hardware delivery times and speeds to always be 100% accurate. I found that their cloud services were initially paying out very well and fees were reasonable. Now that the fees = payouts which leaves almost nothing for actual BTC returns I'm worried. The fact that they have not yet restructured their fees worries me more. The fact that they just pushed back their whole hashcoin ICO for another "2 weeks" (I shit you not, 14 days), sounds wayyyy to familiar to another BS mining company (ehem BFL).

It is coming to the point that I may stop promoting them as a legit company. At bare minimum the fees need to be changed. I already ROI'd a long time ago, but now my hashlets are nearly useless.

Do you consider Vaulbreaker delivery also 100% accurate? They are delivering "something" around now, which is way late and probably has worse specs. Haven't seen any happy buyers bragging about those deliveries yet.

I've bought the black widows, scrypt blades, and those singles (forgot what they were called). All were delivered on time and had higher speeds than I paid for (10->13 and 1->1.3 etc)

I don't know what a vaultbreaker is and I never bought one.

Story behind the VBs:
Vaultbreakers were scrypt miners initially specced at 500 (1000W) and 250Mh on a 28nm node. 9kUSD for Batch 1 VB 500MH (hereby referred to as VB1-500). 7kUSD for Batch 2 500MH (VB2-500) which would be shipped a month after VB1s in Q4 2014.

Josh eventually announced that the specs would be bumped up to a 750 (1500W) and 375Mh for free. I can't remember the exact wording of the post.

Around early/mid-Sept, he offered a free conversion from VBs to Hashlet Primes, or an equivalent amount in hashrate until the VBs were ready to ship, in order to keep his promise of beating KNC to market. VB1s received the conversion around that time, while the VB2 customers had to wait until October.

Not everyone chose to convert to Hashlets, and I'm not sure what is going on with the people who opted for the physical VB.

[molan]

https://hashtalk.org/topic/19846/announcements-are-such-a-let-down-lately

Look at the little gaw private club coming at this poor guy who just spoke his mind.

[maildir]

You misunderstand the purpose of the plug in. The plug in makes it appear when you browse say Amazon.com, that the prices are in BTC or Paycoin. click buy whatever product it, converts it on the fly, pays out to Amazon.com in dollars and debits your BTC or Paycoin account. As you indicate.  No real point to it other than to make it appear as so. IF and let us see them grab this idea as I propose it, if as a collective there is a discount in bulk buying or buyers brought forward by paybase, it could make sense that you use this illusion. Otherwise you would be better off buying from Amazon directly with dollars. It is all an unnecessary step simply to make it all appear as though you are using a crypto currency to buy anything from anywhere. Someone somewhere has to take a piece of the pie to convert the crypto currency and pay out on the back end in dollars.

How is this different than either a native payment in BTC (uses an API to determine BTC value from fiat) or coinbase where you cash out and then purchase?

If said plugin works on major retailers, what is the downside of using it as opposed to fiat?  How does it differ from BTC?

It isn't. It is a front-end illusion. Right now a merchant must accept and work with a conversion company such as bitpay.  There they assume the risky nature of accepting BTC that is the price fluctuation. How it may be that the Dell's and Overstocks indeed keep the received BTC and do not need to convert it immediately, in fact as like some innovative companies are doing, they pay their employees in BTC if they employee is so inclined. Here with this particular plug in any website any merchant any vendor's site you browse, makes it appear as though they accept BTC (when they do not). Picture it this way, you stand here, Josh stands there, Amzon.com is behind Josh. You tell Josh you want that  radio for sale on Amazon.com, you had him the BTC, he sticks it in his left pocket as he takes out USD from his right pocket and pays Amazon.com.

[galdur]

Ah, Mr. Fraser is a nephew of Iris Cantor

as in Cantor Fitzgerald

[elrugrim]

Scott-

Question for you, and if you can't legally answer it, that I guess is understandible, because it is of a legal nature.

I know your saying that those who Endorse a Ponzi and make their ROI while being aware of it's nature as said ponzi would also be liable legally.   But truth be told, isn't it anyone who is involved?   Not for legal purposes of liability, but in terms of restitution,   I.E.  Some people who didn't know Madoff was a scam did get in and out and came out ahead, but the amount they came out ahead was still subject to seizure to cover the losses of later investors, I thought.

Thus then, if that situation comes to pass, are you going to hold any btc you profited from your divesture of GAW items for such a situation?

Not a criticism, just curious because this is definately one of the most interesting threads with some far reaching implications, if you ignore all the pointless posts.

[maildir]

Ah, Mr. Fraser is a nephew of Iris Cantor

as in Cantor Fitzgerald

Indeed

http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/sept11/features/5486/index2.html

For Stuart Fraser, Iris Cantor's nephew, this was a family feud in which he sided with his friend, Lutnick, and there have been long-term repercussions

[KC6TTR]

http://genius.com/Josh-garza-confidential-notice-annotated/
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2ng2aa/gaw_makes_threat_to_coin_fire_directly_via_email/
Coinfire threatened by Josh Garza

Everyone should support coinfire!

Welcome to the GAW/Zen legal PenPal Club . Please contact legal@miningadvocates.org and lets compare while considering joining forces.

Likewise, time for a class action is quickly approaching.

[suchmoon]

Not everyone chose to convert to Hashlets, and I'm not sure what is going on with the people who opted for the physical VB.

Apparently they are receiving Alcheminer hardware. 7500W - a furnace basically.

https://hashtalk.org/topic/17626/physical-vault-breakers-update/68

[elrugrim]

http://genius.com/Josh-garza-confidential-notice-annotated/
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2ng2aa/gaw_makes_threat_to_coin_fire_directly_via_email/
Coinfire threatened by Josh Garza

Everyone should support coinfire!

Welcome to the GAW/Zen legal PenPal Club . Please contact legal@miningadvocates.org and lets compare while considering joining forces.

Likewise, time for a class action is quickly approaching.

Is there going to be a Commemerative Hashlet for this?

[maildir]

http://genius.com/Josh-garza-confidential-notice-annotated/
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2ng2aa/gaw_makes_threat_to_coin_fire_directly_via_email/
Coinfire threatened by Josh Garza

Everyone should support coinfire!

Welcome to the GAW/Zen legal PenPal Club . Please contact legal@miningadvocates.org and lets compare while considering joining forces.

Likewise, time for a class action is quickly approaching.

How very odd, he wishes to maintain the illusion that Amazon, Walmart and Target will accept his coin directly, while at the same time explaining that they will be using a browser plug-in to make it appear as though any vendor website accepts their coin.

Why would he wish to continue this particular ruse when he has now revealed how it will all work?

[suchmoon]

I propose this question to the less drunk smart people:  What's the difference between paying in BTC to a retailer compared to using this plugin that links to a Pay Base wallet assuming you don't have to provide personal information in your pay base wallet?

I should clarify that I have not used the "bill pay" feature from my bank before.  I always use the "auto pay" features from my utility where I provide my bank account/routing number and they auto withdraw the necessary amount.  I don't know if this is better or worse, but I wanted to clarify since I clearly said "bill pay" above.

I don't believe you would be able to use most if any PayBase features without KYC. Anything that touches fiat is a money transmitter, even crypto-only businesses might become such in the near future. Get your SSN ready.

Bill pay from a bank (in the US) works pretty much the same way with a couple of advantages:

1) You can pay anyone, even your grandma - they will mail a check if they can't do a direct ACH transfer.
2) You can pay all your bills in one place.

In the EU/SEPA it's even simpler because there is no need to mail a check - just get your grandma's IBAN.

[verloren]

Not everyone chose to convert to Hashlets, and I'm not sure what is going on with the people who opted for the physical VB.

Apparently they are receiving Alcheminer hardware. 7500W - a furnace basically.

https://hashtalk.org/topic/17626/physical-vault-breakers-update/68

Well that sucks.

[maildir]

I wonder how much longer Paypal will allow then to continue to ride on their coat-tails before their legal team contests their name? Funny really what is good for the goose is good for the gander as protective as he is of anything related to his name, so should Paypal be. It should take long I suspect.

[numanoid]

You misunderstand the purpose of the plug in. The plug in makes it appear when you browse say Amazon.com, that the prices are in BTC or Paycoin. click buy whatever product it, converts it on the fly, pays out to Amazon.com in dollars and debits your BTC or Paycoin account. As you indicate.  No real point to it other than to make it appear as so. IF and let us see them grab this idea as I propose it, if as a collective there is a discount in bulk buying or buyers brought forward by paybase, it could make sense that you use this illusion. Otherwise you would be better off buying from Amazon directly with dollars. It is all an unnecessary step simply to make it all appear as though you are using a crypto currency to buy anything from anywhere. Someone somewhere has to take a piece of the pie to convert the crypto currency and pay out on the back end in dollars.

How is this different than either a native payment in BTC (uses an API to determine BTC value from fiat) or coinbase where you cash out and then purchase?

If said plugin works on major retailers, what is the downside of using it as opposed to fiat?  How does it differ from BTC?

It isn't. It is a front-end illusion. Right now a merchant must accept and work with a conversion company such as bitpay.  There they assume the risky nature of accepting BTC that is the price fluctuation. How it may be that the Dell's and Overstocks indeed keep the received BTC and do not need to convert it immediately, in fact as like some innovative companies are doing, they pay their employees in BTC if they employee is so inclined. Here with this particular plug in any website any merchant any vendor's site you browse, makes it appear as though they accept BTC (when they do not). Picture it this way, you stand here, Josh stands there, Amzon.com is behind Josh. You tell Josh you want that  radio for sale on Amazon.com, you had him the BTC, he sticks it in his left pocket as he takes out USD from his right pocket and pays Amazon.com.

I'm with you and understand what you're saying, but don't see the downside other than the "convert to fiat" thing.

I agree that it would be best to spend crypto and the company keeps said crypto and not selling to fiat. However consumer that have a seamless transaction to major retailers trumps the philosophies of BTC in this case.  If the coin can take the sell pressure from selling (which it is designed to do with the fiat reserve) then this should help bring in new people to cryptos.  

I don't see a downside here other than some philosophical crypto argument.  Even though it is a Fiat transaction in the end, it provides user anonymity (assumed) via the paycoin wallet, right? It allows a direct conversion from crypto to goods without a manual fiat transaction.  That's a win in my book.

[maildir]

I wonder how much longer Paypal will allow then to continue to ride on their coat-tails before their legal team contests their name? Funny really what is good for the goose is good for the gander as protective as he is of anything related to his name, so should Paypal be. It should take long I suspect.

hmmm... maybe that is the intent. cheapest free monsterious advertising he could ever dream of, and funnily enough he has the original hashcoin all in place to fall back on.

[maildir]

You misunderstand the purpose of the plug in. The plug in makes it appear when you browse say Amazon.com, that the prices are in BTC or Paycoin. click buy whatever product it, converts it on the fly, pays out to Amazon.com in dollars and debits your BTC or Paycoin account. As you indicate.  No real point to it other than to make it appear as so. IF and let us see them grab this idea as I propose it, if as a collective there is a discount in bulk buying or buyers brought forward by paybase, it could make sense that you use this illusion. Otherwise you would be better off buying from Amazon directly with dollars. It is all an unnecessary step simply to make it all appear as though you are using a crypto currency to buy anything from anywhere. Someone somewhere has to take a piece of the pie to convert the crypto currency and pay out on the back end in dollars.

How is this different than either a native payment in BTC (uses an API to determine BTC value from fiat) or coinbase where you cash out and then purchase?

If said plugin works on major retailers, what is the downside of using it as opposed to fiat?  How does it differ from BTC?

It isn't. It is a front-end illusion. Right now a merchant must accept and work with a conversion company such as bitpay.  There they assume the risky nature of accepting BTC that is the price fluctuation. How it may be that the Dell's and Overstocks indeed keep the received BTC and do not need to convert it immediately, in fact as like some innovative companies are doing, they pay their employees in BTC if they employee is so inclined. Here with this particular plug in any website any merchant any vendor's site you browse, makes it appear as though they accept BTC (when they do not). Picture it this way, you stand here, Josh stands there, Amzon.com is behind Josh. You tell Josh you want that  radio for sale on Amazon.com, you had him the BTC, he sticks it in his left pocket as he takes out USD from his right pocket and pays Amazon.com.

I'm with you and understand what you're saying, but don't see the downside other than the "convert to fiat" thing.

I agree that it would be best to spend crypto and the company keeps said crypto and not selling to fiat. However consumer that have a seamless transaction to major retailers trumps the philosophies of BTC in this case.  If the coin can take the sell pressure from selling (which it is designed to do with the fiat reserve) then this should help bring in new people to cryptos.  

I don't see a downside here other than some philosophical crypto argument.  Even though it is a Fiat transaction in the end, it provides user anonymity (assumed) via the paycoin wallet, right? It allows a direct conversion from crypto to goods without a manual fiat transaction.  That's a win in my book.

Yes but it costs money which no doubt you will have to pay. I cannot see it being seamless and beneficial to the buyer, unless as I mentioned there is a discount built in. Otherwise you will pay GAW a transaction fee to use their coin on any website that sells something. While appears to be nothing more than monopoly money there are costs involved and someone has to pay them.