GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :)

[suchmoon]

(1) It was (according to Josh) used to pay ICO investors and for Hashpoint conversion (though as others have noted, this does not explain 12 million coins)

Anyone got any maths to show that ICO investors payment and HP conversion is not equal to 12 million? I'm on the fence till I see some proof. You guys are too biased to take at face value.

Here you go:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857670.msg9833591;topicseen#msg9833591

It's not conclusive, jimmothy appears to be wrangling the data till it fits the outcome he wants. There hasn't been any unbiased analysis afaict, and I expect that's not even possible till GAW release figures. Until then, this is all conjecture.

Ok, now you got my attention. Which part of it is incorrect in your opinion? There is a quote from the CEO saying 60% of the premine go to customers, that is 7.2 million. Any particular errors in jimmothy's math?

https://hashtalk.org/topic/22975

About 60% of the 12 million coins are going to customers

[puwaha]

I prefer a cautious approach to my investments and yes, the 'locked-in' part of the whole staking process just puts me off entirely.

I can understand this point of view because paycoin is so new... but certificate of deposits are nothing new, and are generally considered to be some of the most conservative/cautious investments you can make.  And that is pretty much what a hashstaker is... it's a CD  A high-yield CD... but nonetheless... a CD.

I have to say, that would be true if this altcoin had a proven track record. you already state that it's new, and therefore, it is not a cautious investment for anyone to make, in any way.

Well, let's look at the comparison two ways...

1.  A regular bank giving a 1.5% APY is actually losing you money if inflation is 3% per year.  So... a bank CD is only cautious because your original deposit is coming back to you... but that doesn't mean you made any money.  You actually lost purchasing power, while the bank had a field day with your original deposit.

2.  A hashstaker is similar in that you are paid in XPY... not USD.  So it doesn't matter what the XPY->USD exchange rate is when the hashstaker matures/expires... you are getting the rate that GAW said you were going to get in XPY only.  The purchasing power of that XPY may be poor due to a poor XPY->USD exchange rate... similar to the purchasing power of your CD deposit being affected by inflation in #1 above.

The big question is if the exchange rate between XPY->USD can be effectively stabilized with the floor that GAW talks about for a significant amount of time.  No one knows the answer to this unfortunately.

[raskul]

I prefer a cautious approach to my investments and yes, the 'locked-in' part of the whole staking process just puts me off entirely.

I can understand this point of view because paycoin is so new... but certificate of deposits are nothing new, and are generally considered to be some of the most conservative/cautious investments you can make.  And that is pretty much what a hashstaker is... it's a CD  A high-yield CD... but nonetheless... a CD.

I have to say, that would be true if this altcoin had a proven track record. you already state that it's new, and therefore, it is not a cautious investment for anyone to make, in any way.

Well, let's look at the comparison two ways...

there is no comparison.

[puwaha]

I prefer a cautious approach to my investments and yes, the 'locked-in' part of the whole staking process just puts me off entirely.

I can understand this point of view because paycoin is so new... but certificate of deposits are nothing new, and are generally considered to be some of the most conservative/cautious investments you can make.  And that is pretty much what a hashstaker is... it's a CD  A high-yield CD... but nonetheless... a CD.

Lol, a CD is backed by a bank with billions in assets. A cashstaker is backed by Josh. Ouch.

Tomato, tomaaaato.  Banks aren't in the business of losing money, and I'd say Josh isn't either.

[raskul]

I prefer a cautious approach to my investments and yes, the 'locked-in' part of the whole staking process just puts me off entirely.

I can understand this point of view because paycoin is so new... but certificate of deposits are nothing new, and are generally considered to be some of the most conservative/cautious investments you can make.  And that is pretty much what a hashstaker is... it's a CD  A high-yield CD... but nonetheless... a CD.

Lol, a CD is backed by a bank with billions in assets. A cashstaker is backed by Josh. Ouch.

Tomato, tomaaaato.  Banks aren't in the business of losing money, and I'd say Josh isn't either.

of course he's not, he's taking yours 

[anti_gaw_DONKEY_KONG_DK]

I prefer a cautious approach to my investments and yes, the 'locked-in' part of the whole staking process just puts me off entirely.

I can understand this point of view because paycoin is so new... but certificate of deposits are nothing new, and are generally considered to be some of the most conservative/cautious investments you can make.  And that is pretty much what a hashstaker is... it's a CD  A high-yield CD... but nonetheless... a CD.

I have to say, that would be true if this altcoin had a proven track record. you already state that it's new, and therefore, it is not a cautious investment for anyone to make, in any way.

Well, let's look at the comparison two ways...

1.  A regular bank giving a 1.5% APY is actually losing you money if inflation is 3% per year.  So... a bank CD is only cautious because your original deposit is coming back to you... but that doesn't mean you made any money.  You actually lost purchasing power, while the bank had a field day with your original deposit.

2.  A hashstaker is similar in that you are paid in XPY... not USD.  So it doesn't matter what the XPY->USD exchange rate is when the hashstaker matures/expires... you are getting the rate that GAW said you were going to get in XPY only.  The purchasing power of that XPY may be poor due to a poor XPY->USD exchange rate... similar to the purchasing power of your CD deposit being affected by inflation in #1 above.

The big question is if the exchange rate between XPY->USD can be effectively stabilized with the floor that GAW talks about for a significant amount of time.  No one knows the answer to this unfortunately.

WAFFLE PLEASE DIRECT THIS SHRILL TO THE PCFAN STATEMENTS TODAYS the fiat reserve is tba silly and the community has a better chance to raise the price

[ZiG]

I prefer a cautious approach to my investments and yes, the 'locked-in' part of the whole staking process just puts me off entirely.

I can understand this point of view because paycoin is so new... but certificate of deposits are nothing new, and are generally considered to be some of the most conservative/cautious investments you can make.  And that is pretty much what a hashstaker is... it's a CD  A high-yield CD... but nonetheless... a CD.

Lol, a CD is backed by a bank with billions in assets. A cashstaker is backed by Josh. Ouch.

Tomato, tomaaaato.  Banks aren't in the business of losing money, and I'd say Josh isn't either.

of course he's not, he's taking yours 

Don't forget ...:grinning ...

[Snail2]

It's not conclusive, jimmothy appears to be wrangling the data till it fits the outcome he wants. There hasn't been any unbiased analysis afaict, and I expect that's not even possible till GAW release figures. Until then, this is all conjecture.

One more thing: on HT HPs were "given away" (upvote) in quite big amounts. That's missing from jimmothy's calculation.

[puwaha]

Thats the better question where are the buyers coming from. By Friday most will be mined and most will convert HP to XPY . So who is going to buy - but it that is the 64 million dollar question.

That's why i don't understand how anyone thinks this is going to work.

The "investors" gave josh cash. Josh is going to use that cash to give the "miners" cash in exchange for paycoins and hashpoints. Those coins will go into "stakers" to "make" more coins. How are those coins going to get turned back into cash for the "investors?"

The plan from GAW's perspective is that people will keep restaking, and the few that cash out will only cash out a bit at a time.  The "market maker" staker/investors, will either have to restake their earned paycoins after 6 months in order to keep their prime controller status (because they have to maintain that 1% of all paycoins status to keep the controller status)... or sell their prime controller to another interested party.  They simply can't cash out their coins.

[anti_gaw_DONKEY_KONG_DK]

Thats the better question where are the buyers coming from. By Friday most will be mined and most will convert HP to XPY . So who is going to buy - but it that is the 64 million dollar question.

That's why i don't understand how anyone thinks this is going to work.

The "investors" gave josh cash. Josh is going to use that cash to give the "miners" cash in exchange for paycoins and hashpoints. Those coins will go into "stakers" to "make" more coins. How are those coins going to get turned back into cash for the "investors?"

The plan from GAW's perspective is that people will keep restaking, and the few that cash out will only cash out a bit at a time.  The "market maker" staker/investors, will either have to restake their earned paycoins after 6 months in order to keep their prime controller status (because they have to maintain that 1% of all paycoins status to keep the controller status)... or sell their prime controller to another interested party.  They simply can't cash out their coins.

says fckin who you k ps i guess im the only one cashing out 100% friday haha ill never stake

[hazenyc]

The plan from GAW's perspective is that people will keep restaking, and the few that cash out will only cash out a bit at a time.  The "market maker" staker/investors, will either have to restake their earned paycoins after 6 months in order to keep their prime controller status (because they have to maintain that 1% of all paycoins status to keep the controller status)... or sell their prime controller to another interested party.  They simply can't cash out their coins.

Well, this is a problem for a currency if the system is inducing people to hoard instead of spend! In this case it is not a currency but a speculative asset. Junk bonds are also speculative assets that earn a yield for holding them. But you can't also use a debit card to buy a danish with part of your bond.
The two mandates just don't jive: 1. it's a currency go out and transact with them and spend! 2. if you hoard them you'll get rewarded.

Keynes recognized the so-called purchasing power sink caused by hoarding money and how it can trigger financial crisis.

[I_IZ_CEO]

hurry post this on ht wit link so we can see the lemmings freakout

Most won't be moved by it over there, they will just wait for their leader to tell them anything, and that will suffice. 

I just emailed Zincsave about this.. Lets see if they reply.
Someone mentioned they changed the pic on their site? Maybe Zinc did contact them
They, the followers are blind, say something... yes, gawsome, great etc..

Gaw bought zinc, i don't have doubts about that, just spent some victim money

I was thinking that, but then he changed the picture after it was posted here. The only thing I think he is spending victim money is on his lifestyle.

[Liquid71]

It's great to see just how principled you folks are over here.

The majority of you have said, time and again, that you wouldn't touch anything GAW-related with a '1000 foot pole' yet you all are knowingly participating in Paycoin by mining, renting to paycoin miners...

Let's just call a spade a spade - not one of you has the discipline to keep your angry, grubby hands out of the bucket. Your stated intentions with this thread were to make sure no money fell into GAW's hands while people get scammed (something you've failed to prove, BTW) - and now each and every one of you is showing your true colors by being the same greedy assholes you say the folks participating in Paycoin are.

I will not visit this thread again. I've seen enough. Not a single one of you has any moral high ground to stand on anymore (not that you did before either - but the events of the last five days have unmasked every single one of you for what you are - trolls in the truest sense of the word).

Alienesb - you should have the brains to at least anonymously mine at suchpool dipshit - to come here and claim to be a hater to be with your chosen kind, then rent 50TH to mine Paycoin there - well, you are the biggest dipshit of all of these guys. You turned your back on GAW, became a buddy to those here, then you're turning coat yet again by mining the shit out of Paycoin.

To hell with the lot of you. Time will prove out GAW and Josh's work. You guys can scream expletives from the sidelines all you want.

Sounds like bagholders are starting to shit themselves.

If Garza and company didn't brainwash the mental midgets they wouldn't be overpaying on rentals. These guys renting out rigs didn't go out and push their hashes on a bunch of ignorant sheep leading them to slaughter, it was your messiah Homero. You can't equate creating the delusion of ponzicoin being the next bitcoin with a rig owner selling hashes on nicehash.
Dump some of your bags, you're obviously blinded by the stress they are causing.

[Snail2]

The plan from GAW's perspective is that people will keep restaking, and the few that cash out will only cash out a bit at a time.  The "market maker" staker/investors, will either have to restake their earned paycoins after 6 months in order to keep their prime controller status (because they have to maintain that 1% of all paycoins status to keep the controller status)... or sell their prime controller to another interested party.  They simply can't cash out their coins.

... and don't forget that the cheaper time limited stakers will have a fix lifetime. After that lifetime the steaker will disappear and you have to buy another one if you want to restake. Certainly you can use your paycoins for buying you new stakers. Much better business (for the seller) than selling everlasting hashlets .

[raskul]

The plan from GAW's perspective is that people will keep restaking, and the few that cash out will only cash out a bit at a time.  The "market maker" staker/investors, will either have to restake their earned paycoins after 6 months in order to keep their prime controller status (because they have to maintain that 1% of all paycoins status to keep the controller status)... or sell their prime controller to another interested party.  They simply can't cash out their coins.

... and don't forget that the cheaper time limited stakers will have a fix lifetime. After that lifetime the steaker will disappear and you have to buy another peace if you want to restake. Certainly you can use your paycoins for buying you new stakers. Much better business (for the seller) than selling everlasting hashlets .

i fail to see how any of this is a worthwhile investment.
all you are doing is continually giving money to GAW.

[jimmothy]

It's not conclusive, jimmothy appears to be wrangling the data till it fits the outcome he wants. There hasn't been any unbiased analysis afaict, and I expect that's not even possible till GAW release figures. Until then, this is all conjecture.

Instead of declaring my analysis false/biased, what about pointing out any flaws?

How do you suppose hashpoint miners came across the 2.9 billion hashpoints required to purchase 7.2 million paycoins?

How do you suppose GAW raised $100-120 million from mysterious investors while only selling 4.8 million paycoins?

[puwaha]

I prefer a cautious approach to my investments and yes, the 'locked-in' part of the whole staking process just puts me off entirely.

I can understand this point of view because paycoin is so new... but certificate of deposits are nothing new, and are generally considered to be some of the most conservative/cautious investments you can make.  And that is pretty much what a hashstaker is... it's a CD  A high-yield CD... but nonetheless... a CD.

I have to say, that would be true if this altcoin had a proven track record. you already state that it's new, and therefore, it is not a cautious investment for anyone to make, in any way.

Well, let's look at the comparison two ways...

there is no comparison.

There is no comparison... in your mind and opinion... sure.  Believe what you want to believe.

[coinmaster222]

I have no idea how the system works but bought a few primes to convert to stakers and bought a few dozen coins avg pice just over 7 usd.Really did it for fun and will see how the whole thing pans out. Mining to me is a pastime and fun not something to sink my savings into.

[puwaha]

I prefer a cautious approach to my investments and yes, the 'locked-in' part of the whole staking process just puts me off entirely.

I can understand this point of view because paycoin is so new... but certificate of deposits are nothing new, and are generally considered to be some of the most conservative/cautious investments you can make.  And that is pretty much what a hashstaker is... it's a CD  A high-yield CD... but nonetheless... a CD.

Lol, a CD is backed by a bank with billions in assets. A cashstaker is backed by Josh. Ouch.

Tomato, tomaaaato.  Banks aren't in the business of losing money, and I'd say Josh isn't either.

of course he's not, he's taking yours 

Touche!

[suchmoon]

It's not conclusive, jimmothy appears to be wrangling the data till it fits the outcome he wants. There hasn't been any unbiased analysis afaict, and I expect that's not even possible till GAW release figures. Until then, this is all conjecture.

One more thing: on HT HPs were "given away" (upvote) in quite big amounts. That's missing from jimmothy's calculation.

When you say something like that you can also try doing your own math and not wait for someone to do it for you.

There is a maximum of 20 hashpoints per user per day. By GAW's own admission there are between 10-20k users at most. Assuming everyone got 20 per day (which they obviously didn't) for 60 days (obviously too much, since this feature didn't work for a while) we get 24 million hashpoints. Doesn't make a dent in 2.9 billion.