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altcoinUK
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February 23, 2015, 02:36:44 PM |
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Apart from day traders, speculators and P&D scammers absolutely no one use altcoins coins for real life use cases.
Just to play devil's advocate, most people never use Bitcoin either but hoard or trade it. Yeah, that's unfortunately absolutely true. 1 million active users for Bitcoin in five years is not great at all. |
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myagui
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 1154
Merit: 1001
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February 23, 2015, 02:54:41 PM |
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Yeah, I fully agree terms of price manipulation, it is everywhere, but in the mean time there are less and less naive people can be tricked into fake volume hypes like what this XAI P&D was. Be happy with the profit you have realized, but this is not a sustainable business model at all. 500 BTC volume was very common 6 months ago, these days 50 BTC volume is massive which clearly indicates investors are greatly disillusioned with the P&D hypes and scams of altcoin market.
There are people pumping something, all the time. There are people fudding something, all the time. This is precisely why I've advised caution on this thread, numerous times, when large swings occurred followed by a flooding of HYPE or FUD. However, I find it incorrect to be characterizing the project as a P&D on the (potential) actions of some speculation/trading group. Terms of the market cap and the value of XAI, firstly, how can it be undervalued if the current value was achieved with P&D in the first place? Secondly, yeah, there are perhaps some good tech and an honest DEV behind the coin, but that doesn't make the coin a valuable asset. It can be valuable if the coin is used for real life use cases. 99.9% of the alts including well established coins like NXT is completely worthless. Apart from day traders, speculators and P&D scammers absolutely no one use altcoins coins for real life use cases. Not even DOGE, BC, VRC none of the alts is used in the real world, and therefore assigning a value to a coin (in this case XAI) prior it is actually used for something is just a speculative exercise.
I can't agree with your conclusions about past value achievements. You are ignoring the number of coins in existence, ignoring the crowd fund valuation, ignoring the absence of competing projects, ignoring the real use case presented by Sapience/XAI. You are solely focusing on the market activity, turning your observations into "fact", and drawing all of your conclusions from there. There is a real use case for Sapience/XAI, and it's been known from day one. Granted, development hasn't reach a state of maturity or functionality yet that completely realizes that use case, but progress has been very well received and tested by those of us running testnet nodes or sample applications. In a year time all altcoins except a few which are useful will be gone. It remains to be seen whether XAI will be one of the useful remaining alt coins. If the DEV is serious then it could be, who knows? If yes, then it will obviously have some value, but currently this IPO/ICO vaporware is just a speculative, day trading toy without any real long term value.
Sort of agree. Yes, until the use case is fulfilled with real world applications and a sense of demand is established, any valuation attempt is speculative. Again, looking by market cap and by the relative position of Sapience/XAI against a few other coins out there - particularly the lot of which that have no use case at all - I speculate that XAI is severely undervalued. |
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trader19
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1001
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February 23, 2015, 04:36:11 PM |
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Yeah, I fully agree terms of price manipulation, it is everywhere, but in the mean time there are less and less naive people can be tricked into fake volume hypes like what this XAI P&D was. Be happy with the profit you have realized, but this is not a sustainable business model at all. 500 BTC volume was very common 6 months ago, these days 50 BTC volume is massive which clearly indicates investors are greatly disillusioned with the P&D hypes and scams of altcoin market.
There are people pumping something, all the time. There are people fudding something, all the time. This is precisely why I've advised caution on this thread, numerous times, when large swings occurred followed by a flooding of HYPE or FUD. However, I find it incorrect to be characterizing the project as a P&D on the (potential) actions of some speculation/trading group. Terms of the market cap and the value of XAI, firstly, how can it be undervalued if the current value was achieved with P&D in the first place? Secondly, yeah, there are perhaps some good tech and an honest DEV behind the coin, but that doesn't make the coin a valuable asset. It can be valuable if the coin is used for real life use cases. 99.9% of the alts including well established coins like NXT is completely worthless. Apart from day traders, speculators and P&D scammers absolutely no one use altcoins coins for real life use cases. Not even DOGE, BC, VRC none of the alts is used in the real world, and therefore assigning a value to a coin (in this case XAI) prior it is actually used for something is just a speculative exercise.
I can't agree with your conclusions about past value achievements. You are ignoring the number of coins in existence, ignoring the crowd fund valuation, ignoring the absence of competing projects, ignoring the real use case presented by Sapience/XAI. You are solely focusing on the market activity, turning your observations into "fact", and drawing all of your conclusions from there. There is a real use case for Sapience/XAI, and it's been known from day one. Granted, development hasn't reach a state of maturity or functionality yet that completely realizes that use case, but progress has been very well received and tested by those of us running testnet nodes or sample applications. In a year time all altcoins except a few which are useful will be gone. It remains to be seen whether XAI will be one of the useful remaining alt coins. If the DEV is serious then it could be, who knows? If yes, then it will obviously have some value, but currently this IPO/ICO vaporware is just a speculative, day trading toy without any real long term value.
Sort of agree. Yes, until the use case is fulfilled with real world applications and a sense of demand is established, any valuation attempt is speculative. Again, looking by market cap and by the relative position of Sapience/XAI against a few other coins out there - particularly the lot of which that have no use case at all - I speculate that XAI is severely undervalued. well said my friend |
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Geenstijl
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1000
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February 23, 2015, 05:01:31 PM |
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I sold half my XAI at 250k. I agree that the price pump was an artificial rise, altough i expected it to go much further. Like 1 million market cap just as Digibyte and then fall back to lower levels (but not these levels...).
Still, for every pump n dump there has to be a fundamental reason which can convince other traders to step in as well and I think that says that the actual story behind XAI is one which has true value for long term, but als short term.
I just rebought one and a half times my original stake in XAI.
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CedricQuotient (OP)
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February 23, 2015, 06:29:53 PM |
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On tap for this week, we are looking to push out the AI Core features on testnet with some new builds to fulfill the original scope. I'll also be integrating addressindex to support the asset platform, implementing internal P2P compression, and Plume bug fixes and API/RPC enhancements. We'll be thinking through the possibilities with the potential xainodes token sale vs some alternatives. And we have marketing activities running on a background thread.
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CedricQuotient (OP)
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February 23, 2015, 06:50:17 PM |
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I have had more than a couple of people asking me about the IBTP p2p connectivity I demonstrated with LiteCoin and Shadow. Apparently some folks are under the mistaken impression that this is using some sort of PROXY server simply because I had pointed it at my localhost IP. THERE IS NO PROXY in this solution. It is a DIRECT connection using out-of-the-box Bitcoin protocol features. IT IS JUST BITCOIN. This is enabled in the testnet build that was already released. You can grab a LiteCoin wallet, put an addnode=yourip:30893 in your litecoin.conf file, fire it up on litecoin testnet and you will see the LiteCoin peer show up in getpeerinfo in your Sapience AIFX testnet wallet. Can do the same with Shadow as well. At some point we will look at how we want to go about including coins in XaiNet. Also wanted to point out that we will be able to offer a XaiWire encrypted P2P messaging solution over the out-of-the-box Bitcoin communications channel using IBTP. This is an "enabling technology" that will allow us to build more exciting applications on top of our advanced blockchain platform. No friggin proxy required. Thank you very much.  |
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myagui
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1154
Merit: 1001
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February 24, 2015, 11:12:19 AM |
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I have had more than a couple of people asking me about the IBTP p2p connectivity I demonstrated with LiteCoin and Shadow. Apparently some folks are under the mistaken impression that this is using some sort of PROXY server simply because I had pointed it at my localhost IP. THERE IS NO PROXY in this solution. It is a DIRECT connection using out-of-the-box Bitcoin protocol features. IT IS JUST BITCOIN. This is enabled in the testnet build that was already released. You can grab a LiteCoin wallet, put an addnode=yourip:30893 in your litecoin.conf file, fire it up on litecoin testnet and you will see the LiteCoin peer show up in getpeerinfo in your Sapience AIFX testnet wallet. Can do the same with Shadow as well. At some point we will look at how we want to go about including coins in XaiNet. Also wanted to point out that we will be able to offer a XaiWire encrypted P2P messaging solution over the out-of-the-box Bitcoin communications channel using IBTP. This is an "enabling technology" that will allow us to build more exciting applications on top of our advanced blockchain platform. No friggin proxy required. Thank you very much. Thanks for the explanations CedricQuotient, does look that a few people either a) don't understand what's going on at all, or b) they generally understand and are misrepresenting things to drive their own agendas. It is great that we finally have a project that leverages the existing fundamental framework and builds (much) smarter tools, (much) smarter applications on top! I am particularly excited for the massive potential of the machine learning aspect coupled with the cost effective Sapience platform servicing the necessary data gathering & distributed computation, but I see how the same backend could be hosting all sort of different services & contracts between a wider range of connected currencies. Much to look forward to! Happy coding!  |
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Gunther
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 840
Merit: 1000
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February 24, 2015, 12:25:05 PM |
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CEDRIC GIVE ME BACK MY MONEY. I SOLD IN THE FIRST DUMP.
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HYPster
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February 24, 2015, 02:59:25 PM |
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I most definitely agree that price manipulation sucks and would be much happier if it didn't ever happen. Unfortunately, it does look like price manipulation is everywhere. Someone recently stated that crypto currencies are 90% speculation, and 10% utility value (or something like that), and with any speculative asset, there will be bad actors, trying to lure in the credulous ones to take whatever funds they have from them. That said, I had some pretty good flips trading Sapience/XAI (though most of mine are staking), and ended up with more XAI and more BTC than I started with. If there was some fake volume going on, it was most certainly not all of it.  As for value, it's a tough call. Everyone will have their own estimation of value, and as it was briefly debated much earlier in this thread, there is certainly no "magic formula" to determine what's the right value for any altcoin today. However, with an active community, constant development progress and promising technology, I can't help but compare the overall market cap against that of other altcoins, and conclude that Sapience/XAI is undervalued right now. Just my 2 cents... Yeah, I fully agree terms of price manipulation, it is everywhere, but in the mean time there are less and less naive people can be tricked into fake volume hypes like what this XAI P&D was. Be happy with the profit you have realized, but this is not a sustainable business model at all. 500 BTC volume was very common 6 months ago, these days 50 BTC volume is massive which clearly indicates investors are greatly disillusioned with the P&D hypes and scams of altcoin market. Terms of the market cap and the value of XAI, firstly, how can it be undervalued if the current value was achieved with P&D in the first place? Secondly, yeah, there are perhaps some good tech and an honest DEV behind the coin, but that doesn't make the coin a valuable asset. It can be valuable if the coin is used for real life use cases. 99.9% of the alts including well established coins like NXT is completely worthless. Apart from day traders, speculators and P&D scammers absolutely no one use altcoins coins for real life use cases. Not even DOGE, BC, VRC none of the alts is used in the real world, and therefore assigning a value to a coin (in this case XAI) prior it is actually used for something is just a speculative exercise. In a year time all altcoins except a few which are useful will be gone. It remains to be seen whether XAI will be one of the useful remaining alt coins. If the DEV is serious then it could be, who knows? If yes, then it will obviously have some value, but currently this IPO/ICO vaporware is just a speculative, day trading toy without any real long term value. Yes, I think this is true. Is you want a coin that will have actual use then check out KTK (KryptKoin). It already has a marketplace (KTK or BTC), an online wallet, and will soon accept Stripe payments. So this coin has real world uses. Maybe check it out. |
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trader19
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1001
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February 24, 2015, 03:28:19 PM |
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CEDRIC GIVE ME BACK MY MONEY. I SOLD IN THE FIRST DUMP.
you are kidding right.. |
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Gunther
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 840
Merit: 1000
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February 24, 2015, 03:48:00 PM |
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CEDRIC GIVE ME BACK MY MONEY. I SOLD IN THE FIRST DUMP.
you are kidding right.. No. Wish I was. I send Cedric more money now (to the address provided in ico) and he should send me the coins for that value. ~17k. Thanks for your service dude. |
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ELikesCrypto
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 37
Merit: 0
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February 24, 2015, 04:10:47 PM |
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CEDRIC GIVE ME BACK MY MONEY. I SOLD IN THE FIRST DUMP.
you are kidding right.. No. Wish I was. I send Cedric more money now (to the address provided in ico) and he should send me the coins for that value. ~17k. Thanks for your service dude. If you made a stupid mistake selling your coins at 17K, just go to Bittrex and buy them now for 70K. Be a man about it. |
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biggeemac
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 26
Merit: 0
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February 24, 2015, 07:12:23 PM |
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CEDRIC GIVE ME BACK MY MONEY. I SOLD IN THE FIRST DUMP.
you are kidding right.. No. Wish I was. I send Cedric more money now (to the address provided in ico) and he should send me the coins for that value. ~17k. Thanks for your service dude. Good luck, dude. Looks to me like the train already left the station and you will be paying a premium to get a latecomer ticket. |
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topcat363
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February 24, 2015, 10:34:00 PM |
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uh yea now would be a good time to reenter....
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topcat363
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February 24, 2015, 11:16:44 PM |
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We have found the new floor. Things are looking great as we approach these new updates!
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Geenstijl
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1000
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February 24, 2015, 11:44:22 PM |
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We have found the new floor. Things are looking great as we approach these new updates!
I agree. Additionally, this last pump and dump has put XAI on the radar of many traders. |
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topcat363
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February 24, 2015, 11:48:01 PM |
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We have found the new floor. Things are looking great as we approach these new updates!
I agree. Additionally, this last pump and dump has put XAI on the radar of many traders. it was more like a shake of weak hands. not many ppl are selling this. and it does have a lower coin count. major fluctuations are likely to take place.  |
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myagui
Legendary
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Activity: 1154
Merit: 1001
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February 24, 2015, 11:56:23 PM |
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Sadly, it was also that one of the initial crowd fund investors had his PC compromised. He lost all of his XAI, XQN, and other coins in the process. I was tracing back his XQN address earlier, and found that I bought a big chunk of his XQN at bitty, so the scammers that got hold of his coins, have dumped in the past 48 hours or so. Be extremely careful with any wallets you decide to install. The suspect wallet was for some "hansa" coin IIRC, but he has not confirmed what was the effective source for the malware yet. Be cautions also with any OTC offers that you get on IRC. There is a series of scammers scouting the channels every single day...  |
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topcat363
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February 25, 2015, 12:04:10 AM |
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Sadly, it was also that one of the initial crowd fund investors had his PC compromised. He lost all of his XAI, XQN, and other coins in the process. I was tracing back his XQN address earlier, and found that I bought a big chunk of his XQN at bitty, so the scammers that got hold of his coins, have dumped in the past 48 hours or so. Be extremely careful with any wallets you decide to install. The suspect wallet was for some "hansa" coin IIRC, but he has not confirmed what was the effective source for the malware yet. Be cautions also with any OTC offers that you get on IRC. There is a series of scammers scouting the channels every single day... Interesting to know. So what you are saying is, that dump should NOT have happened at all, correct? |
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Jwtech
Member
Offline
Activity: 95
Merit: 10
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February 25, 2015, 12:52:32 AM |
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Sadly, it was also that one of the initial crowd fund investors had his PC compromised. He lost all of his XAI, XQN, and other coins in the process. I was tracing back his XQN address earlier, and found that I bought a big chunk of his XQN at bitty, so the scammers that got hold of his coins, have dumped in the past 48 hours or so. Be extremely careful with any wallets you decide to install. The suspect wallet was for some "hansa" coin IIRC, but he has not confirmed what was the effective source for the malware yet. Be cautions also with any OTC offers that you get on IRC. There is a series of scammers scouting the channels every single day... Interesting to know. So what you are saying is, that dump should NOT have happened at all, correct? Correct the dump should not have happened. it is not a true holder leaving the coin. |
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