███ Stay away from GAWminers.com / Paycoin / Paybase - Mineral - SCAM ! ███

[bitpop]

Follow this other thread

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857670.new;topicseen#new

[LiteCoinGuy]

found some Josh history:

http://www.reddit.com/r/litecoinmining/comments/1yqx55/mining_rig_builders_do_not_sell_anything_or/

[OleOle]

jmordica's Mining Statement: http://youtu.be/ZY284WtOd9A

That video was two and a half minutes I'll never get back. Two guys jawboning over a videolink, smiling at each other and smirking while they seemingly watch a guy's ass in a darkened datacentre... whatever this clip purports to prove has obviously remained elusive  

A complete waste of time. If this video is any reflection on the calibre of the participants involved then the only thing I'd say is, "Seek alternatives".



 

[bitpop]

jmordica's Mining Statement: http://youtu.be/ZY284WtOd9A

That video was two and a half minutes I'll never get back. Two guys jawboning over a videolink, smiling at each other and smirking while they seemingly watch a guy's ass in a darkened datacentre... whatever this clip purports to prove has obviously remained elusive  

A complete waste of time. If this video is any reflection on the calibre of the participants involved then the only thing I'd say is, "Seek alternatives".



 

Haha the ass was extra funny

Remember that neobee guy cam back to make fun of the victims

Just remember that neobee was a scam all along and he came back to laugh at everyone who believed him

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2dbn57/whats_mark_karpeles_doing_today_whats_danny/cjnziyl

[hdd3go]

What else ,All cloud mining project could be a ponzi scam, always invest that you can afford to lose.

[LiteCoinGuy]

jmordica's Mining Statement: http://youtu.be/ZY284WtOd9A

That video was two and a half minutes I'll never get back. Two guys jawboning over a videolink, smiling at each other and smirking while they seemingly watch a guy's ass in a darkened datacentre... whatever this clip purports to prove has obviously remained elusive  

A complete waste of time. If this video is any reflection on the calibre of the participants involved then the only thing I'd say is, "Seek alternatives".



 

Haha the ass was extra funny

Remember that neobee guy cam back to make fun of the victims

Just remember that neobee was a scam all along and he came back to laugh at everyone who believed him

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2dbn57/whats_mark_karpeles_doing_today_whats_danny/cjnziyl

Mark and the other scammers could make a new company: MtgoxNeo-Miners.com


@darkangel11

i think your account is fake too 

[LiteCoinGuy]

one week is over and Josh said there was an audit of his company. he said he wanted to report the results one week after the audit.

here are the results:

[OleOle]

one week is over and Josh said there was an audit of his company. he said he wanted to report the results one week after the audit.

here are the results:

Wait, there's more where that came from... oh hang on, nothing times nothing equals nothing... my bad 

[blg42598]

I jumped out a month after hashlets were released and quadrupled my BTC 

[pacracpac]

Good for you. I can't take any of the payouts out of my account. It's been 2 weeks since I opened a ticket with them, support keep saying "it will be fixed". They forced Authy on all accounts, which I think it's great, but it can't be enabled on my account.

[LiteCoinGuy]

I jumped out a month after hashlets were released and quadrupled my BTC 

and the majority will lose all of their money. and thats the whole purpose of that scam.

[SirChiko]

I jumped out a month after hashlets were released and quadrupled my BTC 

and the majority will lose all of their money. and thats the whole purpose of that scam.

Well they make money out of it and if they let a part of their profit go they may pay it so it wouldn't be scam.

[inBitweTrust]

Well they make money out of it and if they let a part of their profit go they may pay it so it wouldn't be scam.

That's not how ponzi schemes or fractional reserve mining operations work. Mining is a very competitive industry with narrow margins and the math doesn't add up to any sane person. They have employees, rent , utilities, taxes, maintenance , and affiliate costs to payout.

If difficulty remains flat for a little while longer you will start to see many of these cloud mining operations pop because the fresh new victims won't be able to sustain the payouts of existing miners.

GAW miners may hold out a bit longer than other cloudmining operations because they can use profits from their paycoin IPO scheme to sustain their business but eventually the truth will be revealed. 

[Puppet]

If difficulty remains flat for a little while longer you will start to see many of these cloud mining operations pop because the fresh new victims won't be able to sustain the payouts of existing miners.

Unfortunately, flat difficulty also has an inverse effect where it lures in new investors or new investments from older investors because of the apparent profitability.

[inBitweTrust]

Unfortunately, flat difficulty also has an inverse effect where it lures in new investors or new investments from older investors because of the apparent profitability.

Good point. This is one reason why cloud mining is the perfect medium for ponzi's. The question that one has though is are the affiliates and interest in mining enough to sustain the higher payout for a flat or decrease in difficulty? I believe that some of these operations will be forced to shutdown because they cannot attract enough contracts from new and existing clients to fulfill their past contracts. There is a limited supply of people interested in mining and a large amount of options so this may prove fatal to them.

The fact that the difficulty has tapered off is a sign that most of these company's are indeed ponzi's or use fractional reserve mining. They cannot simultaneously boast about new clients and increases in hashing power and the network not support these claims.

It is trivial to securely prove they have the hashing power to sustain their clients contracts even without any effort or audits. I suspect the reason they don't do this is because all cloud mining schemes at minimum partially oversell their hash rates.

[shadowmoon]

Thanks for the great info guys

By the way all are built to scam around

[Puppet]

Good point. This is one reason why cloud mining is the perfect medium for ponzi's. The question that one has though is are the affiliates and interest in mining enough to sustain the higher payout for a flat or decrease in difficulty? I believe that some of these operations will be forced to shutdown because they cannot attract enough contracts from new and existing clients to fulfill their past contracts. There is a limited supply of people interested in mining and a large amount of options so this may prove fatal to them.

There are two kinds of 'forced shutdown' points; there is the point where the ponzi or fractional reserve mining operations actually runs out of money and is forced to close. But (long) before that,  is the point where new sales < dividend payouts, and a ponzi operator would benefit from stopping right there and running away with his maximized loot.

The first point, it may take a very long time for most ponzi's, and potentially never for some that sold at high prices, and/or if difficulty growth picks up again with the next generation miners.
The second point, applicable especially to all the anonymous ponzi's,  we will see many of them run off in the coming weeks and months, but thats gonna happen regardless of what difficulty does IMO

It is trivial to securely prove they have the hashing power to sustain their clients contracts even without any effort or audits. I suspect the reason they don't do this is because all cloud mining schemes at minimum partially oversell their hash rates.

I wish it was that simple, but its not. In fact its trivially easy for a scam operation to 'prove' hashrate it doesnt have. They can just rent it from nicehash for the duration of the scam. That would reduce their profits, but not to the point of being unprofitable since they would rent only for a few weeks or months, but sell contracts for x years. So be careful accepting blockchain proof of hashrate alone as sufficient. Instead, I tried listing 7 criteria  and applying them to most companies in the link in my sig. Its not waterproof either, but complying with most or all of those criteria is certainly a significant burden for a scammer to overcome.

[inBitweTrust]

I wish it was that simple, but its not. In fact its trivially easy for a scam operation to 'prove' hashrate it doesnt have. They can just rent it from nicehash for the duration of the scam. That would reduce their profits, but not to the point of being unprofitable since they would rent only for a few weeks or months, but sell contracts for x years. So be careful accepting blockchain proof of hashrate alone as sufficient. Instead, I tried listing 7 criteria  and applying them to most companies in the link in my sig. Its not waterproof either, but complying with most or all of those criteria is certainly a significant burden for a scammer to overcome.

Another salient point, but I was suggesting permanently and transparently showing a sustained hashrate or newly minted bitcoins deposited before payouts. Their are certain security concerns about this but they can be mitigated.

[Puppet]

Another salient point, but I was suggesting permanently and transparently showing a sustained hashrate or newly minted bitcoins deposited before payouts.

How would you distinguish rented hashrate pointed at your private pool from actual owned hashrate?

[bitpop]

Everyone must mine to their own pool so rented hash must be sustained