███ Stay away from GAWminers.com / Paycoin / Paybase - Mineral - SCAM ! ███

[LiteCoinGuy]

In the last days i read alot about the GAWminers.com-story and i recommend that everybody should do that. I guess we could end here with an "mtgox 2.0" scenario and that will hurt bitcoins reputation. I dont want that. Thats the reason for this topic and the time that i "waste" with it   .

The story began with an article from the news-site coinfire. I visit alot of these sites and alot of them post crap-news or get paid for their news (google). I cant say something bad about coinfire and no, i dont get paid to write that. There are also other good pages like Coindesk and so on...or the news section here on the forum  



Is GAW Miners Lying about Partnerships?

Recently the CEO of GAW Miners claimed publicly that the company and he personally have sealed up partnerships and deals with Target, Amazon, and Walmart about the coin and the company.

Josh also made a claim in an interview with CCN about Authy that they were single-handedly stress testing the Authy service because the requests are so high and outperforming other Authy users,

"ZenCloud Now Sends More Requests to Authy (a 2 factor authentication service) than Coinbase and CEX!

And, it’s all because of you guys.

Earlier this week, Authy called us and said our users were stressing their network. Authy is an amazing company. Turns out ZenCloud users are pinging Authy for more 2FA requests than any other company in the space. Even more than CoinBase and CEX.io received communication from Authy."

( -> not a single proof about that claim. )

Coin Fire has learned these recent claims are stretching the truth or outright lies.

...

While Josh is declaring publicly and implying a partnership with all three companies it would seem that all three are disavowing any sort of partnership. We have reached out to GAW Miners for a statement about these statements but once again the company has repeatedly denied our staff a statement.

( -> all companies denied that they deal with "GAWminers.com". A clear lie from GAWminers.com.  not a single proof about that claim . )

Coin Fire has reached out multiple times for comments on this story and a response from GAW Miners before publishing this article. If Josh Garza and GAW Miners can give complete evidence that any of the companies he has before mentioned are entering a BONAFIDE partnership and said company is willing to go on the record we will update this story. However, at this time, each company has OUTRIGHT DENIED each of Garza’s statements.

(-> no comment of course. no proof about anything )

https://coinfire.cf/2014/11/22/is-gaw-miners-lying-about-partnerships/


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Next story was posted by coinfire some months ago:


Review: Plenty of Concerns with GAW Miners Hashlet Service

GAW Miners recently made the rounds with a blitz of marketing and excitement with the launch of the new GAW Miners Hashlet.

...

I found it strange that the company implies that you are pointing your mining power to a different pool however when you are changing where you are mining but it turns out that this isn’t actually the case. Initially several pool operators that are on the site as option began crying foul when they saw zero increase of hashing power on the pools they operated and began asking the company to give proof that miners were actually coming online for the pool selected.

...

I also have found it strange that the company markets miners that are named after the various pool offerings when those miners will never actually touch those pools. While his justification can make sense on a certain level the simple fact is that it implies the miners actually run on those pools for many users.

Another issue that I have with the service is that they have NOT provided proof of a single block mined to date.

I have an issue with a provider that doesn’t give transparency about the miners, where they are mining, what the current hash rate is, where that power is pointed and proof that they are mining. It has been quite sometime since they concerns have been raised on various forums across the Internet and the company has failed to discuss many of them to date.

...

Coin Fire reached out to GAW Miners several times for a comment before running this piece and each time we received zero response.

( -> what a suprise. not a single proof about their mining. not even a fake-photo! )


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A Critical Look at GAWminers.com

So I've been seeing quite a bit of buzz about this new cloud miner called "the Hashlet" which is being promoted at every corner by GAWminers. Intrigued, I went to look at the product and found the following claims:

"Guaranteed Profitability! Because the maintenence fee for Hashlets reduces over time, the hashlet will always be making money forever. There's no chance of a negative return.
Only Hashlets can mine on the "ZenPool", which can deliver twice the payout of any other pool."

If GAW is a Ponzi it's a shame that this will be many newbies first introduction to the crypto world.


(-> the never ending money-machine. we found it   )

http://www.asicspace.com/blog/2014/11/13/a-critical-look-at-gawminerscom


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Summary:

1 ) They are selling virtual hashes without the actual machines backing it.

2 ) No relevant pictures of their hardware and datacenter

3 ) They are falsify payouts according to pools that never existed or never received hashes from GAW.

4 ) They are known and have been caught using shill accounts. Not just the company but the CEO himself - Josh Garza!

5 ) They said that confire never contacted them before they published the story - lie !

6 ) They said they work with Amazon and Walmart - lie !

7 ) Where is the serious audit of the company ? Garza said there was one in the begin of december 2014      - lie !

8 ) Promised price floor of 20 USD - lie !
     http://imgur.com/f8232EK
     https://archive.today/erGhz

9 ) Why have the venture capital funders that provided the $100 Million funding you claim to have,    not been identified? Why have the funds never been shown to exist even once?

10 ) Stolen logo: https://paybase.com/
                         https://www.gopago.com/

       New stolen logo: https://i.imgur.com/CTx1y3M.png

11 ) No comment on these serious questions / problems.

12 & the end) proven Scam  

We all know that bitcoin will always attract bad actors. This story isnt the first and isnt the last one. We should do what we can to prevent the bad end.


Some more links:

http://qntra.net/2015/04/garza-friends-additional-emails-detailed/

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/paybase-shuts-down

http://coinfire.io/2015/02/25/mastercard-denies-paycoin-partnership/

http://www.coindesk.com/gaw-8-million-zenminer-investment-lie/

http://coinfire.io/2015/03/06/coin-fire-gaw-miners-catches-sec-ftc-irs-dhs-attention/

http://qntra.net/2015/03/leaked-emails-detail-inner-workings-of-josh-garzas-scams/

http://coinbrief.net/gaw-miners-fraud/

http://coinfire.io/2015/02/04/gaw-miners-attorneys-confirm-sec-investigation/

http://www.btcfeed.net/news/coinfire-site-down-due-to-stolen-domain-paycoin-supporters-suspected/

go to coinfire.io (new website after attack)

https://coinfire.cf/2015/01/21/paybase-operating-illegally-without-msb-licenses/

https://coinfire.cf/2015/01/19/sec-investigation-of-gaw-miners-underway/

https://coinfire.cf/2015/01/09/xpy-purchasing-by-credit-card-disabled-by-stripe-for-tos-violation/

https://coinfire.cf/2014/10/15/gaw-miners-hashlet-review/

http://qntra.net/2014/10/gaw-miners-revealed-as-the-jizz-moppers-supreme/

https://medium.com/@BTCtom/cryptocoinsnews-and-gaw-miners-sitting-in-a-tree-k-i-s-s-i-n-g-afe20eecc080?r=reddit

http://techcrunch.com/2014/08/08/an-interview-with-josh-garza-ceo-of-gaw-miners-on-his-1-million-purchase-of-btc-com/

http://de.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2njno5/ama_request_josh_garza_if_what_you_say_is_true/

http://de.scribd.com/doc/248372603/Coinfire-Cease-and-Desist

http://techcrunch.com/2014/08/08/an-interview-with-josh-garza-ceo-of-gaw-miners-on-his-1-million-purchase-of-btc-com/

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2nivi0/gaw_miners_take_down_notice_to_coin_fire/cme227c

http://de.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2r2qn4/i_found_josh_garzas_bitcointalk_account_turns_out/

http://www.btcfeed.net/fraud/paycoin-next-big-scam-crypto/

https://coinfire.cf/2014/12/31/amazon-further-denies-paybase-gaw-miners-involvement/#comment-5183

https://coinfire.cf/2014/12/31/massive-security-breach-at-paybase/


History of the CEO:

http://www.reddit.com/r/litecoinmining/comments/1yqx55/mining_rig_builders_do_not_sell_anything_or/

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[khornate]

Bitmain confirmed that they have bought over 5 petahash from them https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=827552.msg9378239#msg9378239

Keep on making shit up though bro

[inBitweTrust]

Bitmain confirmed that they have bought over 5 petahash from them https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=827552.msg9378239#msg9378239

Keep on making shit up though bro

Aren't you making a false dichotomy here? Since 5 Petahashes represents a fraction of their total hashing power is it not a real possibility they are selling a percentage of fractional virtual hashes as a ponzi scheme?

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/gavin-andresen-suspects-ponzi-schemes-bitcoin-cloud-mining/

[bf4btc]

Bitmain confirmed that they have bought over 5 petahash from them https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=827552.msg9378239#msg9378239

Keep on making shit up though bro

Aren't you making a false dichotomy here? Since 5 Petahashes represents a fraction of their total hashing power is it not a real possibility they are selling a percentage of fractional virtual hashes as a ponzi scheme?

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/gavin-andresen-suspects-ponzi-schemes-bitcoin-cloud-mining/

What would the point of that be? If they were to operate a ponzi scheme then they would just take funds from customers to buy the hashlets to payout the mining revenue, there would be no need to buy actual mining equipment. Also the 5 PHs represents the additional mining capacity they are purchasing, not their existing capacity (5 PHs is ~1.8% of the total network).

In regards to the controversy over their new altcoin, I don't see why people can't wait a little while to see who exactly will accept it as payment.

[inBitweTrust]

Also the 5 PHs represents the additional mining capacity they are purchasing, not their existing capacity (5 PHs is ~1.8% of the total network).

I can trust the claim of the 5PH but there are doubts as to their total unverified capacity.

What would the point of that be? If they were to operate a ponzi scheme then they would just take funds from customers to buy the hashlets to payout the mining revenue, there would be no need to buy actual mining equipment.

The point being they can use that receipt as a way to assuage fears from potential cloud mining clients while they continue to sell fractional virtual hashes at a greater profit. It is far more profitable to simply operate a ponzi scheme where almost all users are not seeing a ROI than actually backing up 100% of their claimed hashes with ASIC's.

Fractional mining is so tempting that I would suspect that most if not all companies selling cloud mining are doing this to a degree.

[bf4btc]

What would the point of that be? If they were to operate a ponzi scheme then they would just take funds from customers to buy the hashlets to payout the mining revenue, there would be no need to buy actual mining equipment.

The point being they can use that receipt as a way to assuage fears from potential cloud mining clients while they continue to sell fractional virtual hashes at a greater profit. It is far more profitable to simply operate a ponzi scheme where almost all users are not seeing a ROI than actually backing up 100% of their claimed hashes with ASIC's.

Fractional mining is so tempting that I would suspect that most if not all companies selling cloud mining are doing this to a degree.
[/quote]It is my understanding that their coin will launch in the very near future so I doubt that they would get very much incremental business by the time it launches.

Do you know how much they paid for the 5PH of ants? Do you know how much someone would need to hypothetically pay for as much mining capacity as gaw claims to have?

I would agree with you over the short term, however there does not appear to be very many risks to the company once the miners are sold so if they are trying to be in business over the long term it would likely be more profitable to act honestly. You should remember that some of their users have received payments that have exceed the cost of their miners.

[inBitweTrust]

I would agree with you over the short term, however there does not appear to be very many risks to the company once the miners are sold so if they are trying to be in business over the long term it would likely be more profitable to act honestly.

If they were acting honestly it would be trivial for them to provide more proof as a way to bolster their reputation and advertise their product. Whether or not there are risks for them purchasing ASICs(I contend there are many) is a moot point because my concerns lie with the motivations being much stronger based upon the much higher profitability of running a fractional ponzi scheme than actually investing and maintaining ASIC's which quickly lose their value.

You should remember that some of their users have received payments that have exceed the cost of their miners.

Sure, it is hypothetically possible to turn a profit cloud mining, just like its is possible to win at gambling in Las Vegas. I would contend that gambling in a regulated Casino in Vegas is a better investment than cloud mining however. Proving thus is simply a matter of comparing casino 95-98% payouts to the average ROI of a person cloud mining.

[gogxmagog]

I keep looking over claims and sometimes proof, posative and negative, about the validity of GAW and can not seem to draw a definitive conclusion. However, I've been here long enough to see that where there is smoke there is usually fire, and not the sporadic, easily refuted, measly little puffs of smoke raised by every other troll in here who are guaranteed to attack every single offering and new coin no matter what, NO! I mean prolonged huge plumes of thick black smoke coming from every sub and let out by known trusted bitcointalk users with blatant smoking guns lying all over the place... that is what GAW looks like.

Maybe I'm wrong and I will have to bear the unthinkable shame of having a few 12 yr old basement dwelling trolls to call me a poopy-head etc. but who cares? Type "GAW" into the search bar up in the top right of this page...you will not like what you see.

Be safe, not sorry. Sit back and watch GAW, but do not invest. That is what I am doing. The potential for profit is tiny, the potential for total loss is so big I cant see around it.

[Morguk]

"Josh Garza @gawceo  ·  22h 22 hours ago
We had a detailed review by a highly respected 3rd party today. They reviewed our wallets and mining center information. Public next week!"

Wait for this and then eat your own words.

[funtotry]

Be safe, not sorry. Sit back and watch GAW, but do not invest. That is what I am doing. The potential for profit is tiny, the potential for total loss is so big I cant see around it.

This is probably a good idea. The realistic potential profit from investing in gaw's hashlets is very small, and realistically has a negative EV if you were to make realistic long term difficulty increase predictions. While if it turns out that gaw is planning on scamming their customers then the customers stand to lose everything.

I don't personally think that gaw is a ponzi/is scamming however I do think the risk is great for anyone investing in their hashlets

[cyberpinoy]

Shit like this is why its so hard to accomplish anything in this damn industry, we spend more time researching and doin diligence than we do mining and profiting. Why the hell do so many assholes take this industry as a scammers paradise, no matter if its FUD morons or the actual scammers themselves. I just wish there was some kind of virus that attacked scammers and would eliminate them.

I have been looking into GAW for a while was even very interested they were doing a coin, and now look, I dont know who to believe the OP or the GAW lovers posting here, I hope the OP is wrong as I have a few friends heavily invested in GAW.

[alani123]

Bitmain confirmed that they have bought over 5 petahash from them https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=827552.msg9378239#msg9378239

Keep on making shit up though bro

Aren't you making a false dichotomy here? Since 5 Petahashes represents a fraction of their total hashing power is it not a real possibility they are selling a percentage of fractional virtual hashes as a ponzi scheme?

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/gavin-andresen-suspects-ponzi-schemes-bitcoin-cloud-mining/

Interestingly enough the confirmation from BITMAIN Came on October 30 and they said that the miners are marching your way to join GAWSOME. Indicating that GAW hasn't even received their miners yet.

GAW was selling hashrate months prior to this confirmation.

[rokkyroad]

Shit like this is why its so hard to accomplish anything in this damn industry, we spend more time researching and doin diligence than we do mining and profiting. Why the hell do so many assholes take this industry as a scammers paradise, no matter if its FUD morons or the actual scammers themselves. I just wish there was some kind of virus that attacked scammers and would eliminate them.

I have been looking into GAW for a while was even very interested they were doing a coin, and now look, I dont know who to believe the OP or the GAW lovers posting here, I hope the OP is wrong as I have a few friends heavily invested in GAW.

I hear you.

The altcoin scene is a cesspool no doubt.  

You got to break out the scales when looking for something to invest in. Should I invest in the smart kid's ICO(Etheriem for example) with grandeur promises or no promises at all(etheriem) OR a bonafide company with real assets making grandeur promises? Who is the most likely to produce something?

We all know someone is going to hit a home run.

Is Gaw big enough, rich enough, and smart enough to be first to market with their shit together?
If they pull off what they are promising, well ... who knows ... could be a real game changer.

Its all a gamble. Roll the dice. There is always the entertainment value.

[jbreher]

"Josh Garza @gawceo  ·  22h 22 hours ago
We had a detailed review by a highly respected 3rd party today. They reviewed our wallets and mining center information. Public next week!"

Indistinguishable from a Ponzi's last pump. Not sayin' it necessarily is a Ponzi's last pump, but I am just sayin'.

Wait for this and then eat your own words.

Perhaps. We'll see soon enough.

[Phildo]

Bitmain confirmed that they have bought over 5 petahash from them https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=827552.msg9378239#msg9378239

Keep on making shit up though bro

Aren't you making a false dichotomy here? Since 5 Petahashes represents a fraction of their total hashing power is it not a real possibility they are selling a percentage of fractional virtual hashes as a ponzi scheme?

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/gavin-andresen-suspects-ponzi-schemes-bitcoin-cloud-mining/

What would the point of that be? If they were to operate a ponzi scheme then they would just take funds from customers to buy the hashlets to payout the mining revenue, there would be no need to buy actual mining equipment. Also the 5 PHs represents the additional mining capacity they are purchasing, not their existing capacity (5 PHs is ~1.8% of the total network).

In regards to the controversy over their new altcoin, I don't see why people can't wait a little while to see who exactly will accept it as payment.

The point would be to spend a little money to make a lot more money.

Shit, Pirate put 5,000 coins in escrow on a bet that he wasn't running a ponzi. That publicity made him so much money that he probably didn't give a shit when that bet got paid out.

[maildir]

"Josh Garza @gawceo  ·  22h 22 hours ago
We had a detailed review by a highly respected 3rd party today. They reviewed our wallets and mining center information. Public next week!"

Wait for this and then eat your own words.

Everything is "next week", "soon", "in awhile" with this operation always in the hopes everyone will forget or they will throw out some brand new incredible idea to make everyone forget. So where are the interviews with Fortune and CNN guaranteed to appear this week, since last week? 3 PH of machines represents 5000 individual units. 5000 Bitmain miners. Call it 10,000 machines. Think about the logistics of that packing moving to the US unpacking and setting up in that mysterious warehouse of theirs in the US versus, leaving them in China and just renting the power and simply claiming they have and own the hardware. What do you suppose can take another week for some highly-respected 3rd party to simply upload some photos and make a simple blog, an hour after inspecting all of this? Let me guess, highly-respected 3rd party is being flown to China where Bitmain has roped off a sector that looks like 5 PH worth of hashing power and a big nicely made sign that says "Josh's Miners".

All under MNDA of course where a single sentence will be offered next week I have seen them and here are some incredibly grainy photos proving so.

[Snipe85]

People are so butthurt about GAW that they are going into the extremes of laughing at their frontman's looks, religion, education, pointing out his grammar mistakes and so on. I never invested in any cloud mining, but all this hate and low punches directed at this guy make me feel sympathy for him.

[maildir]

Hey that's nice to know. Thanks for sharing!

[Puppet]

I keep looking over claims and sometimes proof, posative and negative, about the validity of GAW and can not seem to draw a definitive conclusion. However, I've been here long enough to see that where there is smoke there is usually fire, and not the sporadic, easily refuted, measly little puffs of smoke raised by every other troll in here who are guaranteed to attack every single offering and new coin no matter what, NO! I mean prolonged huge plumes of thick black smoke coming from every sub and let out by known trusted bitcointalk users with blatant smoking guns lying all over the place... that is what GAW looks like.

Maybe I'm wrong and I will have to bear the unthinkable shame of having a few 12 yr old basement dwelling trolls to call me a poopy-head etc. but who cares? Type "GAW" into the search bar up in the top right of this page...you will not like what you see.

Be safe, not sorry. Sit back and watch GAW, but do not invest. That is what I am doing. The potential for profit is tiny, the potential for total loss is so big I cant see around it.

My thoughts exactly. Its clear they have some kind of operation going, its equally clear they are making lots of claims that are highly dubious if not flatout untrue.
Its impossible to me to judge how far the deception goes, which is reason enough never to invest in it.

[EvilPanda]

Recently the CEO of GAW Miners claimed publicly that the company and he personally have sealed up partnerships and deals with Target, Amazon, and Walmart about the coin and the company.
( -> not a single proof about that claim. )
Coin Fire has learned these recent claims are stretching the truth or outright lies.

And what proof has coinfire provided to support this claim? I haven't seen a proof of the CEO saying this.

[LiteCoinGuy]

Recently the CEO of GAW Miners claimed publicly that the company and he personally have sealed up partnerships and deals with Target, Amazon, and Walmart about the coin and the company.
( -> not a single proof about that claim. )
Coin Fire has learned these recent claims are stretching the truth or outright lies.

And what proof has coinfire provided to support this claim? I haven't seen a proof of the CEO saying this.

did you read anything that i posted?

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/hashcoin-hashbase-will-bring-bitcoin-mainstream-interview-with-gawminers-josh-garza/

[bitpop]

Definite scam

[Puppet]

Recently the CEO of GAW Miners claimed publicly that the company and he personally have sealed up partnerships and deals with Target, Amazon, and Walmart about the coin and the company.
( -> not a single proof about that claim. )
Coin Fire has learned these recent claims are stretching the truth or outright lies.

And what proof has coinfire provided to support this claim? I haven't seen a proof of the CEO saying this.

did you read anything that i posted?

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/hashcoin-hashbase-will-bring-bitcoin-mainstream-interview-with-gawminers-josh-garza/

The article you linked contains neither the words Target, Amazon, nor Walmart...

[EvilPanda]

Recently the CEO of GAW Miners claimed publicly that the company and he personally have sealed up partnerships and deals with Target, Amazon, and Walmart about the coin and the company.
( -> not a single proof about that claim. )
Coin Fire has learned these recent claims are stretching the truth or outright lies.

And what proof has coinfire provided to support this claim? I haven't seen a proof of the CEO saying this.

did you read anything that i posted?

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/hashcoin-hashbase-will-bring-bitcoin-mainstream-interview-with-gawminers-josh-garza/

The article you linked contains neither the words Target, Amazon, nor Walmart...

That's what I was talking about.
@LiteCoinGuy looks like you haven't read it and are just spreading FUD, repeating after Coinfire.

[LiteCoinGuy]

cant find it in this article (maybe it was edited because google finds that quote too) but you can do your own research    ?

http://qntra.net/2014/11/gaw-miners-continue-scam-while-coinfire-is-defaced/

https://hashtalk.org/topic/19378/response-to-the-coinfire-article

Yesterday CoinFire published an article titled "Is GAW Miners lying about partnerships? Telling statements from Walmart, Amazon, Target and More" in which some of the claims made by Josh Garza are proven to be false, specifically:

    "I will say on a general level, we're working on getting Hashlets into mainstream stores, it won't be long before you'll walk into Target and see hashlets, it won't be long before you go on walmart.com, we're *unintelligible* with the largest etailers in the country, that's our main strategy.. is to actually get em in mainstream stores."

As is typical of scammers, they always have an excuse which taken at face value appears plausible. Josh Garza is now claiming that the partnerships cannot be disclosed by either himself or partners due to non-disclosure agreements. This of course ignores the fact that Josh Garza is the only person who has claimed such deals are happening. Garza responds:

    "First, since most of you did your homework and figured out who some of the partners of our company will be, (since we met with them earlier in the week,) then you can connect the dots on how we're able to connect with large merchants……

    Second, I already over-stepped our NDA once by disclosing partnerships, and I won't do it again. All I will say is that if any company announced our partnership, they would be in violation of their NDA with us, too. We will respect and honor our agreements until the time that we can disclose them."

This all began with Josh Garza claiming Hashlets would appear in stores such as Target. In an attempt to cover up his obvious lies, Josh clearly confused his fake, non-existent miners1 with a debit card, claiming that it's actually Paycoin, another scam, that will be accepted by tier-one merchants,

[bitpop]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4jp25nRSBbAWTFoUG40OUpvdUk/preview

Josh says or insinuates many many things then deletes it so it doesn't come back to him but to the shills repeating it

http://gawminers.eu/news/think-figured-joshs-plan/

[LiteCoinGuy]

thats all i say. and there are clear lies and promises that he said.

i dont care about that firm. i just want to warn new members that will lose all their money and blame it on bitcoin.

[bitpop]

Didn't these idiots begin by mining Bitcoin and now all their money is going into shitcoin. So they just turned their back on Bitcoin? Good riddance. If they had any commitment their greed wouldn't take over and make them lose everything.

[Puppet]

   "I will say on a general level, we're working on getting Hashlets into mainstream stores, it won't be long before you'll walk into Target and see hashlets, it won't be long before you go on walmart.com, we're *unintelligible* with the largest etailers in the country, that's our main strategy.. is to actually get em in mainstream stores."

I hate to be defending GAW, but the above statement is not the same as what coinfire wrote:

"Recently the CEO of GAW Miners claimed publicly that the company and he personally have sealed up partnerships and deals with Target, Amazon, and Walmart about the coin and the company."


They link that to that same cryptocoinsnews article that doesnt even mention any of these companies, and clearly in the conference there is no mention of sealed deals.

[bitpop]

    "I will say on a general level, we're working on getting Hashlets into mainstream stores, it won't be long before you'll walk into Target and see hashlets, it won't be long before you go on walmart.com, we're *unintelligible* with the largest etailers in the country, that's our main strategy.. is to actually get em in mainstream stores."

I hate to be defending GAW, but the above statement is not the same as what coinfire wrote:

"Recently the CEO of GAW Miners claimed publicly that the company and he personally have sealed up partnerships and deals with Target, Amazon, and Walmart about the coin and the company."


They link that to that same cryptocoinsnews article that doesnt even mention any of these companies, and clearly in the conference there is no mention of sealed deals.

Josh says or insinuates many many things then deletes it so it doesn't come back to him but to the shills repeating it

http://gawminers.eu/news/think-figured-joshs-plan/

[LiteCoinGuy]

   "I will say on a general level, we're working on getting Hashlets into mainstream stores, it won't be long before you'll walk into Target and see hashlets, it won't be long before you go on walmart.com, we're *unintelligible* with the largest etailers in the country, that's our main strategy.. is to actually get em in mainstream stores."

I hate to be defending GAW, but the above statement is not the same as what coinfire wrote:

"Recently the CEO of GAW Miners claimed publicly that the company and he personally have sealed up partnerships and deals with Target, Amazon, and Walmart about the coin and the company."


They link that to that same cryptocoinsnews article that doesnt even mention any of these companies, and clearly in the conference there is no mention of sealed deals.

i doubt that but even when you are right, we have 5 other lies/scams  
the problem is not a marketing hype/slogan or a false quote from someone, the problem is the whole picture .  

[bitpop]

It still says $4 to $20, that's securities fraud

https://paycoin.com/ico

[inBitweTrust]

Comment in question:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVXPFVl0r0M&feature=youtu.be&t=6h7m20s

"we're *unintelligible* with the largest retailers in the country"

sounds like "unintelligible" = "working" which is interesting that this is the word that became unintelligible. Outr of all the words to garble why did this one happen to be unclear. Intentional or coincidental?

[Puppet]

i doubt that but even when you are right, we have 5 other lies/scams 

What is it you doubt? I quoted coinfire, and Im still looking for a source of their claims. You presented a cryptocoinsnews article, one that coinfire also links, but  that doesnt even mention any of these companies, and a youtube clip with transcript, where all he says is that they are working towards getting xyz in those shops as long term stategy. Thats is not at all the same as claiming he (personally) already has sealed up partnerships with these companies, as coinfire wrote.

As for the 5 other lies, post them and lets scrutinize them the same way.

I will not for one second believe anything GAW says just because they say it, but unlike you apparently, I like to use the same scrutiny to claims being made against them.

[inBitweTrust]

You presented a cryptocoinsnews article, one that coinfire also links, but  that doesnt even mention any of these companies, and a youtube clip with transcript, where all he says is that they are working towards getting xyz in those shops as long term stategy. Thats is not at all the same as claiming he (personally) already has sealed up partnerships with these companies, as coinfire wrote.

Listen to the clip I posted ... sounds like he said or suggested "working with" and not "working towards" which are 2 different things entirely.

Coinfire should have wording things better as well but judging from his statements he was at minimum misleading.

[Puppet]

Even if he said "we're working with the largest retailers" , that is not at all the same as  "[he] claimed publicly that the company and he personally have sealed up partnerships and deals with Target, Amazon, and Walmart about the coin and the company". Not even remotely.

Its not just the sealing up part, look at the "coin" part which coinfire made a huge deal of disproving. He never even suggested Amazon or Target was about to accept their coin as payment, regardless of what word you substitute for "unintelligible".

[inBitweTrust]

Even if he said "we're working with the largest retailers" , that is not at all the same as  "[he] claimed publicly that the company and he personally have sealed up partnerships and deals with Target, Amazon, and Walmart about the coin and the company". Not even remotely.

Its not just the sealing up part, look at the "coin" part which coinfire made a huge deal of disproving. He never even suggested Amazon or Target was about to accept their coin as payment, regardless of what word you substitute for "unintelligible".

I already stated that both are being misleading. This coupled with other concerns is reason enough to stay away from GAWminers and their ICO. Generally when one is "working with" major retailers there are sealed agreements and contracts that need to be signed during the process for legal reasons.

If I can agree that coinfire is exaggerating their claims can you agree their are some serious concerns with GAWminers that need to be addressed before anyone spends money on their cloud mining or ICO?

[bitpop]

Even if he said "we're working with the largest retailers" , that is not at all the same as  "[he] claimed publicly that the company and he personally have sealed up partnerships and deals with Target, Amazon, and Walmart about the coin and the company". Not even remotely.

Its not just the sealing up part, look at the "coin" part which coinfire made a huge deal of disproving. He never even suggested Amazon or Target was about to accept their coin as payment, regardless of what word you substitute for "unintelligible".

Forward looking statements are illegal.

[Puppet]

If I can agree that coinfire is exaggerating their claims can you agree their are some serious concerns with GAWminers that need to be addressed before anyone spends money on their cloud mining or ICO?

To be honest, Ive not been following the debate at all. Its only when I started compiling my cloudmining ponzi score list that I even looked in to GAW. Based on criteria I set forth there, yes there certainly are red flags. And I wouldnt be one bit surprised if there are many more, but I would like to get facts to base my opinion on, not "exaggerations" (which I think is too mild a term for what coinfire did if they had no source other than whats been posted here).

[bitpop]

If I can agree that coinfire is exaggerating their claims can you agree their are some serious concerns with GAWminers that need to be addressed before anyone spends money on their cloud mining or ICO?

To be honest, Ive not been following the debate at all. Its only when I started compiling my cloudmining ponzi score list that I even looked in to GAW. Based on criteria I set forth there, yes there certainly are red flags. And I wouldnt be one bit surprised if there are many more, but I would like to get facts to base my opinion on, not "exaggerations" (which I think is too mild a term for what coinfire did if they had no source other than whats been posted here).

Promising $20 isn't enough?

[LiteCoinGuy]

If I can agree that coinfire is exaggerating their claims can you agree their are some serious concerns with GAWminers that need to be addressed before anyone spends money on their cloud mining or ICO?

To be honest, Ive not been following the debate at all. Its only when I started compiling my cloudmining ponzi score list that I even looked in to GAW. Based on criteria I set forth there, yes there certainly are red flags. And I wouldnt be one bit surprised if there are many more, but I would like to get facts to base my opinion on, not "exaggerations" (which I think is too mild a term for what coinfire did if they had no source other than whats been posted here).

now you can. start at page one   . i would like to see more investigation  

[inBitweTrust]

To be honest, Ive not been following the debate at all. Its only when I started compiling my cloudmining ponzi score list that I even looked in to GAW. Based on criteria I set forth there, yes there certainly are red flags. And I wouldnt be one bit surprised if there are many more, but I would like to get facts to base my opinion on, not "exaggerations" (which I think is too mild a term for what coinfire did if they had no source other than whats been posted here).

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=860400.0

FYI, your contributions are helpful but no where near thorough enough to pronounce any companies as "Legit "

All of your "legit" companies should be classified as "Probably legit" or "Possibly legit"
All of your "Probably legit" companies should be classified as "suspicious"

Claiming any of these companies are legit without a thorough independent audit and when their is so much more profit to be made in fractional reserve mining than backing up all purchases with actual ASIC's  is misleading as well. I understand you have clarified yourself with the disclaimer but that should be re-enforced by the categories being appropriately named.

I highly suspect that almost all if not all cloud mining operations are running as fractional reserve mining operations.

But thank you for your contributions regardless.

[Puppet]

I have no interest in digging much deeper than I have: try to separate the obvious ponzi scams from companies that actually mine and that subject themselves to legal action. If you read my disclaimer, you'll see that what I mean with "legit" is not exactly the same as a SEC stamp of approval, but that it shows  the company in question has given enough evidence to reasonablly assume its more than just a quick money grab.

Doing anything beyond that would require a mandate that I simply do not have.

Let me put it this way; any company I listed there as "legit", I would be taking bets they will not just run off with customer funds in the next 6 or 12 month. Im quite willing to take the opposing bet for any company I listed as "ponzi". Im not taking bets either way for the ones inbetween.

[inBitweTrust]

If you'd like to see investigation why are you straight up saying "stay away"? Either you are investigating the matter and taking a neutral stance or attacking and judging. According to the topic of this thread and your posts it's the latter. You are even repeating it in your signature.

There are enough red flags to stay away pending further investigation. This applies for Bitcoin businesses and other businesses equally.
If someone accuses a business of being dishonest, misleading and a ponzi scheme than I think "stay away" is fantastic advice until the claims can be dis-proven either through an investigation or the owners themselves addressing the criticism.

"Stay away" is great advice for all of cloud mining as well, but some companies more than others.

[EvilPanda]

Recently the CEO of GAW Miners claimed publicly that the company and he personally have sealed up partnerships and deals with Target, Amazon, and Walmart about the coin and the company.
( -> not a single proof about that claim. )
Coin Fire has learned these recent claims are stretching the truth or outright lies.

And what proof has coinfire provided to support this claim? I haven't seen a proof of the CEO saying this.

did you read anything that i posted?
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/hashcoin-hashbase-will-bring-bitcoin-mainstream-interview-with-gawminers-josh-garza/

The article you linked contains neither the words Target, Amazon, nor Walmart...

cant find it in this article (maybe it was edited because google finds that quote too) but you can do your own research    ?

The essence of this FUD:
-He said it in this article!
-Where?
-Here can't you read?
-There's nothing there!
-Ok, I can't find it, but I still think it's there, somewhere!


You wan't US to look for a proof that YOU were right? Maybe you do your own research before you call someone a scammer?

[inBitweTrust]

You wan't US to look for a proof that YOU were right? Maybe you do your own research before you call someone a scammer?

Here you go :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVXPFVl0r0M&feature=youtu.be&t=6h7m20s

IMHO both Josh and coinfire.cf are being, at minimum, misleading.

Now that you have seen the facts, do you agree with the red flags?

[Sona]

I can see theres a lot of stuff piling up, but whats their response to all this?

are they going to up being another mt.gox 2.0 version, but in cloud minig edition.

just saw that youtube video mark, he does mention about going into major retail stores.. during the 6 hr long google + video.

[EvilPanda]

You wan't US to look for a proof that YOU were right? Maybe you do your own research before you call someone a scammer?

Here you go :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVXPFVl0r0M&feature=youtu.be&t=6h7m20s

IMHO both Josh and coinfire.cf are being, at minimum, misleading.

Now that you have seen the facts, do you agree with the red flags?

What facts?
He said "we are working on getting it to mainstream stores" and "it won't be long before you see it in (store names)".

What the OP claims is "he personally have sealed up partnerships and deals with Target, Amazon, and Walmart"

I haven't heard such statement from GAW CEO. I think this has been manipulated by Coinfire and is now repeated by people.
Of course I won't deny it if you manage to prove he said it. Until now I haven't seen such proof, but strangely everybody including OP are showing that article, which doesn't have a word about Wallmart, Target or Amazon in it.

Edit: I just saw the OP is posting a link to this thread everywhere he can, he even started a whole new scam accusation thread (although he wasn't scammed) to link it to this thread... I'm speachless 

[inBitweTrust]

What facts?
He said "we are working on getting it to mainstream stores" and "it won't be long before you see it in (store names)".

What the OP claims is "he personally have sealed up partnerships and deals with Target, Amazon, and Walmart"

Now you are leaving out some of the details. He also said he is working with them and it won't be long before you see them in mainstream stores.

Working with means something different than working towards. Additionally, it won't be long before you see them in major retailers supports the idea of a deal already in progress as well.

Perhaps he misspoke, perhaps he exaggerated... either way it is misleading, but I can certainly see why you are rationalizing this behavior.

[wadili89]

In the end, are they still paying out their customers? GAWminers looked sketchy initially, but they have been here for a long time now and are paying out regularly.

[inBitweTrust]

In the end, are they still paying out their customers? GAWminers looked sketchy initially, but they have been here for a long time now and are paying out regularly.

The same thing is said with all ponzi operations until they can no longer sustain themselves. Fractional reserve mining by design can go on quite a while as long as a certain level of growth is sustained. One or a few months of slowdown and it can all come crashing to an end.

The red flags and investigations are meant to mitigate this from happening or more people from being hurt.

I wish more questions were raised with Mtgox when they were still paying out their customers withdrawls.

[darkangel11]

Was it proven that they are a ponzi or doing this fractional reserve mining?
Somebody saying that you will see his product in Wallmart doesn't even tell if he's a liar. For all we know he can be overconfident or even telling the truth.

[maildir]

I saw it myself he 100% said he had established relationships with Walmart, Target and Amazon and you would be able to spend paycoin directly with them. Clearly it has been deleted, but their forum is riddled with bewildered responses after the fact about this.

Doesn't really matter he is a liar and a scammer.  It isn't a "mistake" or an "exaggeration" it is intentional deceit to get people on board, and once onboard, declare whoops my bad. What I really meant was...

You do not make a critical mistake such as this and historically with his MO by trying to slime Cantor Fitzgerald into the picture -- when they are not -- is confirmation of his devious ways.

Simply put he is a what is commonly known as a piece of shit.

[ScryptAsic]

In the end, are they still paying out their customers? GAWminers looked sketchy initially, but they have been here for a long time now and are paying out regularly.

The same thing is said with all ponzi operations until they can no longer sustain themselves. Fractional reserve mining by design can go on quite a while as long as a certain level of growth is sustained. One or a few months of slowdown and it can all come crashing to an end.

The red flags and investigations are meant to mitigate this from happening or more people from being hurt.

I wish more questions were raised with Mtgox when they were still paying out their customers withdrawls.

What exactly do you mean by fractional reserve mining? Do you mean to imply that they sell 3 TH/s for every 1 TH/s of mining equipment they actually own? If this was the case then what would the point of this be? I would think they would either have mining equipment that backs up all of their mining contracts sold or have no mining equipment at all; I think having only a fraction of mining equipment to backup the mining contracts would make very little sense and your claim that this is what they are doing only degrades your credibility

[inBitweTrust]

What exactly do you mean by fractional reserve mining? Do you mean to imply that they sell 3 TH/s for every 1 TH/s of mining equipment they actually own? If this was the case then what would the point of this be? I would think they would either have mining equipment that backs up all of their mining contracts sold or have no mining equipment at all; I think having only a fraction of mining equipment to backup the mining contracts would make very little sense and your claim that this is what they are doing only degrades your credibility

I am not the only one who suspects this is going on :

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/gavin-andresen-suspects-ponzi-schemes-bitcoin-cloud-mining/

I hate to be so explicit for something that is obvious but here it goes:

A cloud mining company has 3 options(and I suspect most are taking option 1 and 2 ) since those are the most profitable options

1) 100% Ponzi Operation, easy to setup and operate and thus easy to undercut all the other companies as. All they need is a few shill accounts, a cheap website, and an affiliate program and they can pay affiliates and and take a cut before payouts. Since cloud mining payouts rarely have a 100% ROI and are over multiple months they even have more of a buffer even if their growth slows before being forced to shutdown.  
  
Certain cloud mining operations have already been exposed and shutdown doing exactly this.

2) fractional reserve mining - This group are either legit companies which started with 100% hashing to back up their clients but started padding their hashes to increase profitability or companies who occasionally make a large purchase to lend credibility to their claims of having 100% hashing but never intended to have 100% hashing power to back up their claims. Some of these companies are interested in profiting directly off of mining and selling bitcoins themselves but will certainly never turn away a contract even if they don't have the hashing power to back up their claims because they usually have more expensive contracts and thus are unlikely to ever have to payout more than they take in so might as well grab free money. These companies don't mind mining for its own profitability sake but they cannot always secure fair price from the ASIC manufacturers.

3) cloud mining with 100% hashing backing up what they sell

Since most contracts rarely have a ROI simply taking the cash and slowly giving back a slightly less amount of cash is far more profitable than buying ASIC's where they have to install them, maintain them, pay for electrical costs, and have all sorts of liabilities.

If a company isn't doing either 1 or 2 than why aren't they stepping forward and provided better evidence. Few have even offered and this would be a chance for them to instantly gain the credibility of the community and garner more contracts.

[Hazir]

I guess it is not recommended to trust just anything on the internet, especially something that is not backed by solid evidence and argumentation.

[inBitweTrust]

I guess it is not recommended to trust just anything on the internet, especially something that is not backed by solid evidence and argumentation.

Correct, and the problem is compounded by the fact that anyone would be tempted by the higher profit margins with these activities and the fact that these companies have been caught doing things and saying things which are questionable.

I.E... companies that have high affiliate payouts are very likely ponzi's as the math doesn't add up with razor thin profit margins in the mining space.

[ScryptAsic]

@inBitweTrust - Yes I very much understand 1 and 3 as they are either a ponzi or they are not one. But I don't understand why any cloud mining company would ever want to go the route of #2. I guess it would be to give themselves credibility when ASIC companies say they have received a large order from them, but I would think the initial payments would give them more credibility.

[inBitweTrust]

@inBitweTrust - Yes I very much understand 1 and 3 as they are either a ponzi or they are not one. But I don't understand why any cloud mining company would ever want to go the route of #2. I guess it would be to give themselves credibility when ASIC companies say they have received a large order from them, but I would think the initial payments would give them more credibility.

Its not that they oppose mining for profit, but sometimes they cannot secure the ASIC chips in the needed quantities in time or at the right price to make it worthwhile.

The fact that they can show some equipment and have a better reputation allows them to charge more so securing miners is important for bolstering their reputation too.
 
Smaller or new cloud mining companies are much more likely to be straight up ponzi schemes because they have to be to compete and because they cannot afford to buy chips in enough quantity in order to break even while paying out affiliates. The math just doesn't add up.

Established/larger mining companies have to have some hashing because they have more employees as well, thus need to account for some miners otherwise it will quickly leak out.

[ScryptAsic]

@inBitweTrust - Yes I very much understand 1 and 3 as they are either a ponzi or they are not one. But I don't understand why any cloud mining company would ever want to go the route of #2. I guess it would be to give themselves credibility when ASIC companies say they have received a large order from them, but I would think the initial payments would give them more credibility.

Its not that they oppose mining for profit, but sometimes they cannot secure the ASIC chips in the needed quantities in time or at the right price to make it worthwhile.

I guess it depends on the morals of the owners. If the owners refuse to sell additional mining contracts until they can secure the hardware to backup the contracts then this would not happen. If the owners are good at what they do then they would be able to secure enough hardware at a fast enough pace so that they will never need to turn off sales.

The fact that they can show some equipment and have a better reputation allows them to charge more so securing miners is important for bolstering their reputation too.

I guess this is true, however it does not take much to "show" equipment, as they could pretty easily fake pictures of "their" equipment and/or make what little equipment they have look like a lot more. I wouldn't really consider this "fractional reserve" mining but rather the company investing a little bit of money in order to make themselves look legit when they are really not.

Smaller or new cloud mining companies are much more likely to be straight up ponzi schemes because they have to be to compete and because they cannot afford to buy chips in enough quantity in order to break even while paying out affiliates. The math just doesn't add up.

I would say that most small/new cloud mining companies will turn out to be outright scams, but I generally agree with your premise.

Established/larger mining companies have to have some hashing because they have more employees as well, thus need to account for some miners otherwise it will quickly leak out.

This is not necessarily true. They could have a lot of shillls who are controlled by a small group of people who are all in on a potential scam/ponzi

[LiteCoinGuy]

Recently the CEO of GAW Miners claimed publicly that the company and he personally have sealed up partnerships and deals with Target, Amazon, and Walmart about the coin and the company.
( -> not a single proof about that claim. )
Coin Fire has learned these recent claims are stretching the truth or outright lies.

And what proof has coinfire provided to support this claim? I haven't seen a proof of the CEO saying this.

did you read anything that i posted?
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/hashcoin-hashbase-will-bring-bitcoin-mainstream-interview-with-gawminers-josh-garza/

The article you linked contains neither the words Target, Amazon, nor Walmart...

cant find it in this article (maybe it was edited because google finds that quote too) but you can do your own research    ?

The essence of this FUD:
-He said it in this article!
-Where?
-Here can't you read?
-There's nothing there!
-Ok, I can't find it, but I still think it's there, somewhere!


You wan't US to look for a proof that YOU were right? Maybe you do your own research before you call someone a scammer?

i think you dont understand the problem that this company has ... or the customers in the future.

[OleOle]

My thoughts exactly. Its clear they have some kind of operation going, its equally clear they are making lots of claims that are highly dubious if not flatout untrue.
Its impossible to me to judge how far the deception goes, which is reason enough never to invest in it.

Yeah, I have no grounds for suspicions but I really don't like the attitude and vibe I get from their website, it's an arrogance and aloofness that reminds me of BFL and we're seeing a similar style of debate here.

Like I say, I have no knowledge or experience of them, I just wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole.

 

[AirFlame]

I saw it myself he 100% said he had established relationships with Walmart, Target and Amazon and you would be able to spend paycoin directly with them. Clearly it has been deleted, but their forum is riddled with bewildered responses after the fact about this.
Doesn't really matter he is a liar and a scammer.  It isn't a "mistake" or an "exaggeration" it is intentional deceit to get people on board, and once onboard, declare whoops my bad. What I really meant was...
You do not make a critical mistake such as this and historically with his MO by trying to slime Cantor Fitzgerald into the picture -- when they are not -- is confirmation of his devious ways.
Simply put he is a what is commonly known as a piece of shit.

So there's no proof and we should forget about it and take your word for it? Maybe I would believe you if you weren't so emotional about them with this whole liar and scammer thing.
Did he scam you? If not, it means the real liar is you.

[EvilPanda]

i think you dont understand the problem that this company has ... or the customers in the future.

Most of all I don't understand what is your problem with this company and the reason to start multiple threads with the same content.
A normal person without an issue would just write his thouths and leave it at that. Not go on and on trying to convince random people that he's right.

[inBitweTrust]

i think you dont understand the problem that this company has ... or the customers in the future.

Most of all I don't understand what is your problem with this company and the reason to start multiple threads with the same content.
A normal person without an issue would just write his thouths and leave it at that. Not go on and on trying to convince random people that he's right.

Its quite endearing that he is concerned for the welfare of others and the community as a whole when we are constantly bombarded with scammers.

There are issues need to be addressed, and with enough effort, some of these accusations will bring to light fraud or vindicate the accused by encouraging them to clarify matters and address the concerns. This is something which should have been done long ago.

[LiteCoinGuy]

I saw it myself he 100% said he had established relationships with Walmart, Target and Amazon and you would be able to spend paycoin directly with them. Clearly it has been deleted, but their forum is riddled with bewildered responses after the fact about this.
Doesn't really matter he is a liar and a scammer.  It isn't a "mistake" or an "exaggeration" it is intentional deceit to get people on board, and once onboard, declare whoops my bad. What I really meant was...
You do not make a critical mistake such as this and historically with his MO by trying to slime Cantor Fitzgerald into the picture -- when they are not -- is confirmation of his devious ways.
Simply put he is a what is commonly known as a piece of shit.

So there's no proof and we should forget about it and take your word for it? Maybe I would believe you if you weren't so emotional about them with this whole liar and scammer thing.
Did he scam you? If not, it means the real liar is you.

This is true. And also its not about one statement. Do you think i would open this thread because of that statement? No way. Look at page one (summary).


@EvilPanda

Because of so much little threads about gawminer, i made this one thread. The mother of all. For everybody. Until the end 

[L3G1T]

It's sad to see how calompanies like these hurt bitcoins reputation

[WaffleMaster]

Believe GAW and buy their new HashStakers. You pay $10 for 3 months of 1 Paycoin staking (you also have to buy the paycoin). So you pay them to hold your money after you get done buying their stuff with other money. I mean you might as well seeing as how you're going to 5x your money overnight by getting their Paycoins. Seems legit doesn't it?

[bitgeek]

I saw it myself he 100% said he had established relationships with Walmart, Target and Amazon and you would be able to spend paycoin directly with them. Clearly it has been deleted, but their forum is riddled with bewildered responses after the fact about this.
Doesn't really matter he is a liar and a scammer.  It isn't a "mistake" or an "exaggeration" it is intentional deceit to get people on board, and once onboard, declare whoops my bad. What I really meant was...
You do not make a critical mistake such as this and historically with his MO by trying to slime Cantor Fitzgerald into the picture -- when they are not -- is confirmation of his devious ways.
Simply put he is a what is commonly known as a piece of shit.

So there's no proof and we should forget about it and take your word for it? Maybe I would believe you if you weren't so emotional about them with this whole liar and scammer thing.
Did he scam you? If not, it means the real liar is you.

This is true. And also its not about one statement. Do you think i would open this thread because of that statement? No way. Look at page one (summary).

What is true? That there's no proof? Yeah we know

[jimmothy]

Recently the CEO of GAW Miners claimed publicly that the company and he personally have sealed up partnerships and deals with Target, Amazon, and Walmart about the coin and the company.
( -> not a single proof about that claim. )
Coin Fire has learned these recent claims are stretching the truth or outright lies.

And what proof has coinfire provided to support this claim? I haven't seen a proof of the CEO saying this.

You have seen proof but you simply ignored it because it didn't fit your agenda.

Our partners got upset that I released their names ahead of time, so now I have to mind my P's and Q

https://hashtalk.org/topic/16853/all-is-well-in-the-land

I have seen a few posts asking about our coin being accepted at larger merchants. Everything is still on track. I have had to change some of my wording as to not create issues with the MNDAs we have in place.

Short summary:
We said a few things before our partners were ready for folks to hear it.

https://hashtalk.org/topic/17485/large-merchants

[EvilPanda]

Recently the CEO of GAW Miners claimed publicly that the company and he personally have sealed up partnerships and deals with Target, Amazon, and Walmart about the coin and the company.
( -> not a single proof about that claim. )
Coin Fire has learned these recent claims are stretching the truth or outright lies.

And what proof has coinfire provided to support this claim? I haven't seen a proof of the CEO saying this.

You have seen proof but you simply ignored it because it didn't fit your agenda.

Our partners got upset that I released their names ahead of time, so now I have to mind my P's and Q

https://hashtalk.org/topic/16853/all-is-well-in-the-land

I have seen a few posts asking about our coin being accepted at larger merchants. Everything is still on track. I have had to change some of my wording as to not create issues with the MNDAs we have in place.

Short summary:
We said a few things before our partners were ready for folks to hear it.

https://hashtalk.org/topic/17485/large-merchants

There's no "my agenda" but judging by the number of posts about GAW you're producing, you clearly have one.
In the posts you linked there's nothing about a "sealed up partnerships with Amazon et al." Find me a solid proof and I won't deny it.

[inBitweTrust]

There's no "my agenda" but judging by the number of posts about GAW you're producing, you clearly have one.
In the posts you linked there's nothing about a "sealed up partnerships with Amazon et al." Find me a solid proof and I won't deny it.

How many times does this have to be repeated....there is absolutely no evidence that josh literally said :
"sealed up partnerships with Amazon et al."
Just because coinfire.cf exaggerated their claims doesn't take away from the other concerns being presented.

There's no "my agenda"

Of course, you are biased and have an agenda.
You are employed by GAWminers ... at least as an affiliate. This is a conflict of interest and your opinions about GAW should be treated with skepticism.

[jimmothy]

Recently the CEO of GAW Miners claimed publicly that the company and he personally have sealed up partnerships and deals with Target, Amazon, and Walmart about the coin and the company.
( -> not a single proof about that claim. )
Coin Fire has learned these recent claims are stretching the truth or outright lies.

And what proof has coinfire provided to support this claim? I haven't seen a proof of the CEO saying this.

You have seen proof but you simply ignored it because it didn't fit your agenda.

Our partners got upset that I released their names ahead of time, so now I have to mind my P's and Q

https://hashtalk.org/topic/16853/all-is-well-in-the-land

I have seen a few posts asking about our coin being accepted at larger merchants. Everything is still on track. I have had to change some of my wording as to not create issues with the MNDAs we have in place.

Short summary:
We said a few things before our partners were ready for folks to hear it.

https://hashtalk.org/topic/17485/large-merchants

There's no "my agenda" but judging by the number of posts about GAW you're producing, you clearly have one.
In the posts you linked there's nothing about a "sealed up partnerships with Amazon et al." Find me a solid proof and I won't deny it.

I post about GAW often (the entertainment value is great) however you rarely post about anything other than GAW.

Those quotes from the CEO are in response to Coinfire's claims that the partnerships don't exist. There were no other partnership rumors at the time.

What other "large merchant partnerships" do you think Mr. CEO could possibly be talking about? Why has Mr CEO never once said the partnerships don't/never existed? Why does he keep saying things like "I can't clarify because of an NDA" and "Walmart/Target would never tell this info to a news site with such a low alexa rating"?

Cognitive dissonance is bad for your health.

[jimmothy]

Here's definitive proof supporting Coinfire's claims:

https://twitter.com/danielpalacio/status/537250571875790849

@danielpalacio Hello, Daniel. Could you verify to me whether or not you told CoinSource that Authy does not release customer traffic data?

@OnwardsImmortal Yes. We do not release data about our customers.

[erwin45hacked]

Here's definitive proof supporting Coinfire's claims:

https://twitter.com/danielpalacio/status/537250571875790849

@danielpalacio Hello, Daniel. Could you verify to me whether or not you told CoinSource that Authy does not release customer traffic data?

@OnwardsImmortal Yes. We do not release data about our customers.

great proof, i have always doubt GAW ever since that mr CEO keep on spewing promises

i heard it once in texas conference  that mr CEO will lower the fees, but i still see $0.08/mh till now 

[bitpop]

PayCoin is a confirmed fraudulent ponzi. Current victims are trying to promote it in hopes they can exit. GAW is trying to con people interested in Bitcoin by selling them fake PayCoins. They announced several interviews, however they were all just paid PR articles. PayCoin is selling at $4 and promising $20 value. This is called securities fraud. Stuart Fraser , Vice Chairman and Partner, Cantor Fitzgerald is not involved. They are trying to fake involvement of many companies and individuals such as Stuart Fraser, Amazon, Walmart, Target and PayPal. If you are interested in Bitcoin, get it from a reputable source such as Coinbase or Circle. Do not fall victim to Bitcoin clones.

[ScryptAsic]

Here's definitive proof supporting Coinfire's claims:

https://twitter.com/danielpalacio/status/537250571875790849

@danielpalacio Hello, Daniel. Could you verify to me whether or not you told CoinSource that Authy does not release customer traffic data?

@OnwardsImmortal Yes. We do not release data about our customers.

I don't think this is "definitive proof" about coinfire's claims. It only confirms that one small fact is correct, but does not confirm the conclusion.

It is my understanding that paycoin will be released soon speculators will be able to see if if gaw really does have any merchants lined up.

I have no idea either way, but I certainly do know that it is not certain either way

[bitpop]

Here's definitive proof supporting Coinfire's claims:

https://twitter.com/danielpalacio/status/537250571875790849

@danielpalacio Hello, Daniel. Could you verify to me whether or not you told CoinSource that Authy does not release customer traffic data?

@OnwardsImmortal Yes. We do not release data about our customers.

I don't think this is "definitive proof" about coinfire's claims. It only confirms that one small fact is correct, but does not confirm the conclusion.

It is my understanding that paycoin will be released soon speculators will be able to see if if gaw really does have any merchants lined up.

I have no idea either way, but I certainly do know that it is not certain either way

Josh is an expert at back tracking. When questioned about media blitz he said idk what slots they'll get into. I learned to only announce once it's confirmed. paycoins set to exceed $20!! Aka we only had paid pr articles. But his sheep suck his cock anyway.

[ScryptAsic]

Here's definitive proof supporting Coinfire's claims:

https://twitter.com/danielpalacio/status/537250571875790849

@danielpalacio Hello, Daniel. Could you verify to me whether or not you told CoinSource that Authy does not release customer traffic data?

@OnwardsImmortal Yes. We do not release data about our customers.

I don't think this is "definitive proof" about coinfire's claims. It only confirms that one small fact is correct, but does not confirm the conclusion.

It is my understanding that paycoin will be released soon speculators will be able to see if if gaw really does have any merchants lined up.

I have no idea either way, but I certainly do know that it is not certain either way

Josh is an expert at back tracking. When questioned about media blitz he said idk what slots they'll get into. I learned to only announce once it's confirmed. paycoins set to exceed $20!! Aka we only had paid pr articles. But his sheep suck his cock anyway.

Okay so he backtracked. If he is scamming then he has already scammed for a lot of money (probably in the 7 or 8 digits worth of US dollars of bitcoin). I don't think he will do very much more damage in the few weeks (?) that it will be until paycoin actually launches.

[Slark]

Okay so he backtracked. If he is scamming then he has already scammed for a lot of money (probably in the 7 or 8 digits worth of US dollars of bitcoin). I don't think he will do very much more damage in the few weeks (?) that it will be until paycoin actually launches.

I bet they will be scamming your grandmother and your dog too in a couple of weeks. As some people are trying to say on this forum. Next GAW will scam whole world and then Josh will escape to Russia to hang out with his pal Vladimir.

Moral of the story. Do not always listen to people spreading FUD over and over again. Just wait a see for yourself.

[maildir]

Why don't you go and ask these poor bastards what exactly was said instead of lording here pretending he never did state that Walmart Amazon and Target were partners already on board:

https://hashtalk.org/topic/16399/some-thoughts-on-merchant-adoption

so you dont have amazon, walmart and target lined up to accept hashcoin, bummer

So, basically, there is no big merchant adoption like the one that has been advertised.

As an end user, I was already under the assumption that major merchant adoption was in place by previous statements. It now looks to be very different in scope. I would just caution to be very careful in wording you commitments towards your Customer base. Misleading statements will break the trust barrier and it is hard win those folks back into the circle.

hmmm...I thought you had big merchants ready to go and I thought you had purchased a better name than Hashcoin...im kinda confused at this point...

Agreed. I too am confused on some points. Now it sounds like he still needs to get merchants on board whereas he seemed to outright say that 4 big names were completely on board already

[jimmothy]

I guess it is not recommended to trust just anything on the internet, especially something that is not backed by solid evidence and argumentation.

I bet they will be scamming your grandmother and your dog too in a couple of weeks. As some people are trying to say on this forum. Next GAW will scam whole world and then Josh will escape to Russia to hang out with his pal Vladimir.

Moral of the story. Do not always listen to people spreading FUD over and over again. Just wait a see for yourself.

Why are you still using these accounts after being exposed for using 4 shill accounts to promote GAW?

Just create/buy a new account and try not to screw up this time.

[zerocoder]

I have some suspicions, just saying all of you buy/sell in hashlet market just making Josh richer. Due to reason, he is signing agreement with all parts of that operation NDA preventing firms exposing themselves. Time to time, he is making announcements and re stabilize the price and let the trolls handle rest.

And I assure you, He has no place to escape no place to hide. His customer is from all over the world. We are talking about 200k+ customers don't be fool. This is too big to crash. By the way thanks all of you for making situation more profitable for all parts of that equation the price of primes will drop until Friday, and I am expecting an announcement from Josh after.

By the way, this guy have fan club in both Brazil and Russia please eliminate those two countries from list

[maildir]

You do not sound so sure of your self, allow me for your future reference, just in case:

1. http://www.cantor.com/sales_and_trading/advisory_group

or

2. http://kncclassaction.com/

[T0urist]

I have some suspicions, just saying all of you buy/sell in hashlet market just making Josh richer. Due to reason, he is signing agreement with all parts of that operation NDA preventing firms exposing themselves. Time to time, he is making announcements and re stabilize the price and let the trolls handle rest.

And I assure you, He has no place to escape no place to hide. His customer is from all over the world. We are talking about 200k+ customers don't be fool. This is too big to crash. By the way thanks all of you for making situation more profitable for all parts of that equation the price of primes will drop until Friday, and I am expecting an announcement from Josh after.

By the way, this guy have fan club in both Brazil and Russia please eliminate those two countries from list

Will the NDA last forever like a secret society funding the savior our paycoin? Josh will keep this NDA statement going for a long time since releasing information about partners puts him in the spotlight of a direct claim. I'm pretty certain the end game result is the death of paycoin... though it'll aim to be an orchestrated death. His aim is to ensure that the high rollers don't lose money as big losers = painful investigations. He needs to slam all the sales in BTC and have it go through coin mixers then stash it somewhere... orchestrate paycoins decline and failure and blame on things outside his control. The focus is removed from the mining operation that was dodgy (he's already at the phase out mining and migrate people to an ecosystem in paycoin he completely controls). Basically i hope a group gets an look into his operations before it progresses too far along. As it is now i'll wager he has nothing to show hence them lack of evidence and transparency.

It'll go down in the next 6 months. Paycoin has to come out in the next month. When people keep spending and don't see cash back in any form they tend to lose tolerance.

[LiteCoinGuy]

Believe GAW and buy their new HashStakers. You pay $10 for 3 months of 1 Paycoin staking (you also have to buy the paycoin). So you pay them to hold your money after you get done buying their stuff with other money. I mean you might as well seeing as how you're going to 5x your money overnight by getting their Paycoins. Seems legit doesn't it?

Too good to be true 

[funtotry]

Will the NDA last forever like a secret society funding the savior our paycoin? Josh will keep this NDA statement going for a long time since releasing information about partners puts him in the spotlight of a direct claim. I'm pretty certain the end game result is the death of paycoin... though it'll aim to be an orchestrated death. His aim is to ensure that the high rollers don't lose money as big losers = painful investigations. He needs to slam all the sales in BTC and have it go through coin mixers then stash it somewhere... orchestrate paycoins decline and failure and blame on things outside his control. The focus is removed from the mining operation that was dodgy (he's already at the phase out mining and migrate people to an ecosystem in paycoin he completely controls). Basically i hope a group gets an look into his operations before it progresses too far along. As it is now i'll wager he has nothing to show hence them lack of evidence and transparency.

It'll go down in the next 6 months. Paycoin has to come out in the next month. When people keep spending and don't see cash back in any form they tend to lose tolerance.

The NDA would last until at most when paycoin is "released" as at this point the fact that paycoin is accepted at various retailers will be obvious by the fact that the retailers accept paycoin (assuming any actually will accept it).

I would think the NDAs are/would be in place because the final details are not yet finalized and releasing some details may put either party at a potential disadvantage to any negotiations.

[jimmothy]

I would think the NDAs are/would be in place because the final details are not yet finalized and releasing some details may put either party at a potential disadvantage to any negotiations.

I would think the "NDAs" are in place so Mr. CEO can avoid proving he's not full of shit.

[bf4btc]

I would think the NDAs are/would be in place because the final details are not yet finalized and releasing some details may put either party at a potential disadvantage to any negotiations.

I would think the "NDAs" are in place so Mr. CEO can avoid proving he's not full of shit.

This might be true, but it also might not be true. The "cover" of NDA's is only temporary as he will eventually need to prove that he does have agreements with retailers to accept his new altcoin.

Based on how much speculation there is about gaw potentially being a ponzi I would say that it was probably a bad idea for him to imply that he has agreements lined up with retailers, as it will only add fuel to the fire.

[bitpop]

http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/12/01/bitbeat-under-fire-gaw-miners-ceo-garza-takes-on-his-critics/tab/comments/

     GAW_CEO wrote:

Screw you patetic trolls. you have no life and only interested in hurting my company and hurting this industry. We are the most onovative crypto busines and your just bitcoin bagholders who cant let go of their noisy expensive miners. Cloud staking is the future and you'll be sorry your not part of it.

[T0urist]

I would think the NDAs are/would be in place because the final details are not yet finalized and releasing some details may put either party at a potential disadvantage to any negotiations.

I would think the "NDAs" are in place so Mr. CEO can avoid proving he's not full of shit.

This might be true, but it also might not be true. The "cover" of NDA's is only temporary as he will eventually need to prove that he does have agreements with retailers to accept his new altcoin.

Based on how much speculation there is about gaw potentially being a ponzi I would say that it was probably a bad idea for him to imply that he has agreements lined up with retailers, as it will only add fuel to the fire.

Maybe the big players are taaaarrrrget, amaaaaarrrrrzon and walmaaarrrrrt which we just all confused thinking they were the big companies we know about.

[LiteCoinGuy]

Coin Fire Response to GAW Miners C&D

http://de.scribd.com/doc/248840123/Coin-Fire-Response-to-GAW-Miners-C-D

[rammy2k2]

i made ROI long time ago, its pure profit for me for some time, never had any issue with them, NEVER

[OleOle]

http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/12/01/bitbeat-under-fire-gaw-miners-ceo-garza-takes-on-his-critics/tab/comments/

     GAW_CEO wrote:

Screw you patetic trolls. you have no life and only interested in hurting my company and hurting this industry. We are the most onovative crypto busines and your just bitcoin bagholders who cant let go of their noisy expensive miners. Cloud staking is the future and you'll be sorry your not part of it.

That whole blog thread is pretty sorry reading, makes everyone commenting look like twisted, hyper-sensitive basement dwellers.

 

[RiverBoatBTC]

http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/12/01/bitbeat-under-fire-gaw-miners-ceo-garza-takes-on-his-critics/tab/comments/

     GAW_CEO wrote:

Screw you patetic trolls. you have no life and only interested in hurting my company and hurting this industry. We are the most onovative crypto busines and your just bitcoin bagholders who cant let go of their noisy expensive miners. Cloud staking is the future and you'll be sorry your not part of it.

That whole blog thread is pretty sorry reading, makes everyone commenting look like twisted, hyper-sensitive basement dwellers.

 

You still stand by this?

[LiteCoinGuy]

http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/12/01/bitbeat-under-fire-gaw-miners-ceo-garza-takes-on-his-critics/


"In investigating these claims, BitBeat viewed a bitcoin address at Blockchain.info that was cryptographically proven to belong to GAW and in which almost 28,000 bitcoins"

just one address. of course GAW has some bitcoin. but these are not enough BTC. Roger Ver "viewed" on the Goxx BTC. you know the rest.


"We also obtained a copy of the lease contract to a 150,000-square foot warehouse in Park Purvis, Miss., where GAW’s mining operation occurs,"

a contract? everybody can print that. and even when there is a mining-farm, its just one. not enough at all.


"and saw photos of a new operation under constructions with hundreds of rigs stacked on shelves, high-tension wires and heavy electrical infrastructure."


whos the owner of these rigs? where are these pics?


"Separately, Jihan Wu, the CEO of bitcoin mining equipment maker Bitmain, told us GAW was “a very important participant” in the industry and confirmed delivery of a single Bitmain order to GAW worth 5 petahashes per second."

not enough mining equipment. where is the rest?


"As for the charge that GAW is a Ponzi scheme, Mr. Garza pointed out that his principal partner, Cantor Fitzgerald Vice Chairman Stuart Fraser, in whose name the patent for one of Wall Street’s most important bond trading programs is listed, has “got more to lose than all of us combined.” "

not a good argument. maybe GAW is goxxing him too?


"Meanwhile, Mr. Garza said claims that the company censored the Hashtalk forum misrepresent its policy for maintaining decorum. He said community members will “downvote” people whose comments aren’t constructive and that the only rule the forum moderators enforce is “show some respect.”"


"buy the shit and shut up" is the rule i guess


so in summary:

"Still, many say that GAW — as with all cloud mining operations — could be far more transparent. Amith Nirgunarthy, CEO of cryptocurrency information site IHB.io, says GAW should provide “their coinbase addresses on the bitcoin blockchain.” Without that, he said, “none of their mining contract payouts can be traced to virgin bitcoins,” ensuring that it “smells like a ponzi scheme.” "

[bitpop]

well that video shows us a lot.
e few questions.

1, why was the lighting turned off?
2,why did the camera stay very low so we couldn't see properly?
3,it shows that you have 2 rows of asics with some running?
4,if you truly want to silence the trolls, you need to walk around the building and show more of it?

come on,you promised a proper walkthrough not a dark one shot painting then nothing else?

Rats, Rats..... theres Rats everywhere. Aaarrgghhh

 Andrew_French posted about

And no sound

[LiteCoinGuy]

well that video shows us a lot.
e few questions.

1, why was the lighting turned off?
2,why did the camera stay very low so we couldn't see properly?
3,it shows that you have 2 rows of asics with some running?
4,if you truly want to silence the trolls, you need to walk around the building and show more of it?

come on,you promised a proper walkthrough not a dark one shot painting then nothing else?

Rats, Rats..... theres Rats everywhere. Aaarrgghhh

 Andrew_French posted about

And no sound

where is that video?

[bitpop]

jmordica's Mining Statement: http://youtu.be/ZY284WtOd9A

[LiteCoinGuy]

jmordica's Mining Statement: http://youtu.be/ZY284WtOd9A

cant believe that......i mean....there are alot of older people in the community. i guess some are smart...and somehow blind.

how can you run a "million dollar company" , make this video or "prove" and people are ok with it? its like being in a cult. dont wake up. just dream.


?

[bitpop]

Follow this other thread

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857670.new;topicseen#new

[LiteCoinGuy]

found some Josh history:

http://www.reddit.com/r/litecoinmining/comments/1yqx55/mining_rig_builders_do_not_sell_anything_or/

[OleOle]

jmordica's Mining Statement: http://youtu.be/ZY284WtOd9A

That video was two and a half minutes I'll never get back. Two guys jawboning over a videolink, smiling at each other and smirking while they seemingly watch a guy's ass in a darkened datacentre... whatever this clip purports to prove has obviously remained elusive  

A complete waste of time. If this video is any reflection on the calibre of the participants involved then the only thing I'd say is, "Seek alternatives".



 

[bitpop]

jmordica's Mining Statement: http://youtu.be/ZY284WtOd9A

That video was two and a half minutes I'll never get back. Two guys jawboning over a videolink, smiling at each other and smirking while they seemingly watch a guy's ass in a darkened datacentre... whatever this clip purports to prove has obviously remained elusive  

A complete waste of time. If this video is any reflection on the calibre of the participants involved then the only thing I'd say is, "Seek alternatives".



 

Haha the ass was extra funny

Remember that neobee guy cam back to make fun of the victims

Just remember that neobee was a scam all along and he came back to laugh at everyone who believed him

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2dbn57/whats_mark_karpeles_doing_today_whats_danny/cjnziyl

[hdd3go]

What else ,All cloud mining project could be a ponzi scam, always invest that you can afford to lose.

[LiteCoinGuy]

jmordica's Mining Statement: http://youtu.be/ZY284WtOd9A

That video was two and a half minutes I'll never get back. Two guys jawboning over a videolink, smiling at each other and smirking while they seemingly watch a guy's ass in a darkened datacentre... whatever this clip purports to prove has obviously remained elusive  

A complete waste of time. If this video is any reflection on the calibre of the participants involved then the only thing I'd say is, "Seek alternatives".



 

Haha the ass was extra funny

Remember that neobee guy cam back to make fun of the victims

Just remember that neobee was a scam all along and he came back to laugh at everyone who believed him

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2dbn57/whats_mark_karpeles_doing_today_whats_danny/cjnziyl

Mark and the other scammers could make a new company: MtgoxNeo-Miners.com


@darkangel11

i think your account is fake too 

[LiteCoinGuy]

one week is over and Josh said there was an audit of his company. he said he wanted to report the results one week after the audit.

here are the results:

[OleOle]

one week is over and Josh said there was an audit of his company. he said he wanted to report the results one week after the audit.

here are the results:

Wait, there's more where that came from... oh hang on, nothing times nothing equals nothing... my bad 

[blg42598]

I jumped out a month after hashlets were released and quadrupled my BTC 

[pacracpac]

Good for you. I can't take any of the payouts out of my account. It's been 2 weeks since I opened a ticket with them, support keep saying "it will be fixed". They forced Authy on all accounts, which I think it's great, but it can't be enabled on my account.

[LiteCoinGuy]

I jumped out a month after hashlets were released and quadrupled my BTC 

and the majority will lose all of their money. and thats the whole purpose of that scam.

[SirChiko]

I jumped out a month after hashlets were released and quadrupled my BTC 

and the majority will lose all of their money. and thats the whole purpose of that scam.

Well they make money out of it and if they let a part of their profit go they may pay it so it wouldn't be scam.

[inBitweTrust]

Well they make money out of it and if they let a part of their profit go they may pay it so it wouldn't be scam.

That's not how ponzi schemes or fractional reserve mining operations work. Mining is a very competitive industry with narrow margins and the math doesn't add up to any sane person. They have employees, rent , utilities, taxes, maintenance , and affiliate costs to payout.

If difficulty remains flat for a little while longer you will start to see many of these cloud mining operations pop because the fresh new victims won't be able to sustain the payouts of existing miners.

GAW miners may hold out a bit longer than other cloudmining operations because they can use profits from their paycoin IPO scheme to sustain their business but eventually the truth will be revealed. 

[Puppet]

If difficulty remains flat for a little while longer you will start to see many of these cloud mining operations pop because the fresh new victims won't be able to sustain the payouts of existing miners.

Unfortunately, flat difficulty also has an inverse effect where it lures in new investors or new investments from older investors because of the apparent profitability.

[inBitweTrust]

Unfortunately, flat difficulty also has an inverse effect where it lures in new investors or new investments from older investors because of the apparent profitability.

Good point. This is one reason why cloud mining is the perfect medium for ponzi's. The question that one has though is are the affiliates and interest in mining enough to sustain the higher payout for a flat or decrease in difficulty? I believe that some of these operations will be forced to shutdown because they cannot attract enough contracts from new and existing clients to fulfill their past contracts. There is a limited supply of people interested in mining and a large amount of options so this may prove fatal to them.

The fact that the difficulty has tapered off is a sign that most of these company's are indeed ponzi's or use fractional reserve mining. They cannot simultaneously boast about new clients and increases in hashing power and the network not support these claims.

It is trivial to securely prove they have the hashing power to sustain their clients contracts even without any effort or audits. I suspect the reason they don't do this is because all cloud mining schemes at minimum partially oversell their hash rates.

[shadowmoon]

Thanks for the great info guys

By the way all are built to scam around

[Puppet]

Good point. This is one reason why cloud mining is the perfect medium for ponzi's. The question that one has though is are the affiliates and interest in mining enough to sustain the higher payout for a flat or decrease in difficulty? I believe that some of these operations will be forced to shutdown because they cannot attract enough contracts from new and existing clients to fulfill their past contracts. There is a limited supply of people interested in mining and a large amount of options so this may prove fatal to them.

There are two kinds of 'forced shutdown' points; there is the point where the ponzi or fractional reserve mining operations actually runs out of money and is forced to close. But (long) before that,  is the point where new sales < dividend payouts, and a ponzi operator would benefit from stopping right there and running away with his maximized loot.

The first point, it may take a very long time for most ponzi's, and potentially never for some that sold at high prices, and/or if difficulty growth picks up again with the next generation miners.
The second point, applicable especially to all the anonymous ponzi's,  we will see many of them run off in the coming weeks and months, but thats gonna happen regardless of what difficulty does IMO

It is trivial to securely prove they have the hashing power to sustain their clients contracts even without any effort or audits. I suspect the reason they don't do this is because all cloud mining schemes at minimum partially oversell their hash rates.

I wish it was that simple, but its not. In fact its trivially easy for a scam operation to 'prove' hashrate it doesnt have. They can just rent it from nicehash for the duration of the scam. That would reduce their profits, but not to the point of being unprofitable since they would rent only for a few weeks or months, but sell contracts for x years. So be careful accepting blockchain proof of hashrate alone as sufficient. Instead, I tried listing 7 criteria  and applying them to most companies in the link in my sig. Its not waterproof either, but complying with most or all of those criteria is certainly a significant burden for a scammer to overcome.

[inBitweTrust]

I wish it was that simple, but its not. In fact its trivially easy for a scam operation to 'prove' hashrate it doesnt have. They can just rent it from nicehash for the duration of the scam. That would reduce their profits, but not to the point of being unprofitable since they would rent only for a few weeks or months, but sell contracts for x years. So be careful accepting blockchain proof of hashrate alone as sufficient. Instead, I tried listing 7 criteria  and applying them to most companies in the link in my sig. Its not waterproof either, but complying with most or all of those criteria is certainly a significant burden for a scammer to overcome.

Another salient point, but I was suggesting permanently and transparently showing a sustained hashrate or newly minted bitcoins deposited before payouts. Their are certain security concerns about this but they can be mitigated.

[Puppet]

Another salient point, but I was suggesting permanently and transparently showing a sustained hashrate or newly minted bitcoins deposited before payouts.

How would you distinguish rented hashrate pointed at your private pool from actual owned hashrate?

[bitpop]

Everyone must mine to their own pool so rented hash must be sustained

[Puppet]

Not sure I follow. As I understand, if I rent hashrate on nicehash, I can point it to any pool I want, even my own bitcoind and sign my blocks however I want, or point it to any pool and prove my control of the worker/account. I could rent the hashrate for as long as my scam is profitable, and increase the rented hashrate as my combined sales grows until I reach the point where I maximized my profits. How would you ever prove or even guess I dont have a datacenter in my basement?

Any company that does not prove its hashrate by showing the blocks is of course, extremely suspicious, but one that does 'prove' it this way, might just be a more clever scammer. Its not a guarantee afaics.

[inBitweTrust]

Not sure I follow. As I understand, if I rent hashrate on nicehash, I can point it to any pool I want, even my own bitcoind and sign my blocks however I want, or point it to any pool and prove my control of the worker/account. I could rent the hashrate for as long as my scam is profitable, and increase the rented hashrate as my combined sales grows until I reach the point where I maximized my profits. How would you ever prove or even guess I dont have a datacenter in my basement?

Any company that does not prove its hashrate by showing the blocks is of course, extremely suspicious, but one that does 'prove' it this way, might just be a more clever scammer. Its not a guarantee afaics.

Proving their hash rate by renting the hash just makes running their operation fraudulent more difficult as they have a middleman to pay out and thus have extremely tight margins(so tight they may as well just buy the equipment themselves) . You are essentially correct that it doesn't conclusively prove they are indeed hashing directly, but it is a very strong indicator that should be considered alongside your other variables.

[bitpop]

True that's why they all turn into scams even legit ones, it's just so easy

[Puppet]

Proving their hash rate by renting the hash just makes running their operation fraudulent more difficult as they have a middleman to pay out and thus have extremely tight margins(so tight they may as well just buy the equipment themselves) .

No, not at all. Because I (being the scammer here), would rent not much more than the hashrate I already sold, or even less,  and rent it only for a (very) limited time (until I run), while taking in revenue for contracts that are pretty much perpetual. Thats where my margin is, and its pretty big.

edit: almost forgot, the rented hashrate actually brings in mining revenue too of course, so the real cost is relatively minor. On a lucky day I might even profit just from renting rigs alone.

[inBitweTrust]

Proving their hash rate by renting the hash just makes running their operation fraudulent more difficult as they have a middleman to pay out and thus have extremely tight margins(so tight they may as well just buy the equipment themselves) .

No, not at all. Because I (being the scammer here), would rent not much more than the hashrate I already sold, or even less,  and rent it only for a (very) limited time (until I run), while taking in revenue for contracts that are pretty much perpetual. Thats where my margin is, and its pretty big.

edit: almost forgot, the rented hashrate actually brings in mining revenue too of course, so the real cost is relatively minor. On a lucky day I might even profit just from renting rigs alone.

Sure, but these cloud operations have been going for a longer time and it is a pretty good indicator that it is legit if they prove the hashrate for 6+ months. But I agree with what you are getting at, this should only be one indicator amongst multiple.

[shivamchawla]

Sold my hashlet prime after reading this earlier. Now i kinda regret it 

[inBitweTrust]

Sold my hashlet prime after reading this earlier. Now i kinda regret it 

Its not only about profits ... but making a conscious and moral decision to not support ponzi schemes or encourage this type of corrupt behavior from businesses.

Feel proud of your decision even if pulling out at the moment you did was inopportune.

[OleOle]

Sold my hashlet prime after reading this earlier. Now i kinda regret it 

Its not only about profits ... but making a conscious and moral decision to not support ponzi schemes or encourage this type of corrupt behavior from businesses.

Feel proud of your decision even if pulling out at the moment you did was inopportune.

Exactly, doing the right thing helps everyone in in the long run. Doing the wrong thing and making a quick buck at others expense only further damages the reputation of bitcoin. Better to support legitimate businesses who take the painful but necessary steps to get compliant, take precautions to safeguard customer capital and produce better outcomes in the long term.

 

[Liquid71]

He created a shitcoin clone of peercoin and he couldn't even do that right, it's forked 

Anyone with money stuck in this cluster fuck good luck

[LiteCoinGuy]

He created a shitcoin clone of peercoin and he couldn't even do that right, it's forked  

Anyone with money stuck in this cluster fuck good luck

gawcoin will "rule da Woooarld"!

Amazon already accepts gawcoin i heard....wait.....no...not yet.....but....next week they start!!!  

[OleOle]

Everyone must mine to their own pool so rented hash must be sustained

Yeah, in-house pools are dubious at best and at least mining to your own pool is a way to check whether you're getting the hashing through-put.

I'm just wondering how long until the house of cards collapses? Three months? Six months? Or do they limp on BFL-style for years taking as much cash as possible?

There's nothing worse than a slow-motion train wreck 

[funtotry]

Proving their hash rate by renting the hash just makes running their operation fraudulent more difficult as they have a middleman to pay out and thus have extremely tight margins(so tight they may as well just buy the equipment themselves) .

No, not at all. Because I (being the scammer here), would rent not much more than the hashrate I already sold, or even less,  and rent it only for a (very) limited time (until I run), while taking in revenue for contracts that are pretty much perpetual. Thats where my margin is, and its pretty big.

edit: almost forgot, the rented hashrate actually brings in mining revenue too of course, so the real cost is relatively minor. On a lucky day I might even profit just from renting rigs alone.

Then what is the point of proving a cloud mining company's mining address? If it is this easy to fake then there is no value to asking to see it

[bf4btc]

Everyone must mine to their own pool so rented hash must be sustained

Yeah, in-house pools are dubious at best and at least mining to your own pool is a way to check whether you're getting the hashing through-put.

I'm just wondering how long until the house of cards collapses? Three months? Six months? Or do they limp on BFL-style for years taking as much cash as possible?

There's nothing worse than a slow-motion train wreck 

It is confirmed that GAW recently purchased a large number of antminers from bitman so they are not 100% illegitimate. I have never really understood their reasoning behind not allowing their customers to mine on other pools, especially for their SHA256 contracts

[premium_domainer]

i hate them too and will never buy anything from them ...

[NeonTranceBadger]

Everyone must mine to their own pool so rented hash must be sustained

Yeah, in-house pools are dubious at best and at least mining to your own pool is a way to check whether you're getting the hashing through-put.

I'm just wondering how long until the house of cards collapses? Three months? Six months? Or do they limp on BFL-style for years taking as much cash as possible?

There's nothing worse than a slow-motion train wreck 

It is confirmed that GAW recently purchased a large number of antminers from bitman so they are not 100% illegitimate. I have never really understood their reasoning behind not allowing their customers to mine on other pools, especially for their SHA256 contracts

Well if you were in the Paybase tinychat Q&A Josh said that they were going to start selling off pretty much all their miners on oneminer. 

[Snipe85]

i hate them too and will never buy anything from them ...

Why would you have such strong feelings towards some random altcoin creators?
I don't love or hate any company, and especially the ones I never bought anything from.

[OleOle]

i hate them too and will never buy anything from them ...

Why would you have such strong feelings towards some random altcoin creators?
I don't love or hate any company, and especially the ones I never bought anything from.

You have to admit, while bizarre, the random statements of hatred do add to the mirth value of the thread 

[coinmaster222]

Gaw mining is moving slowly away from cloud mining to be a Global Trading Platform with its own currency.A lot of cloud miners are going bust as there is way too many of them to sustain profitability.

[sgk]

Gaw mining is moving slowly away from cloud mining to be a Global Trading Platform with its own currency.A lot of cloud miners are going bust as there is way too many of them to sustain profitability.

They launched their own crypto-currency called PayCoin. They're selling each PayCoin for $20 LOL

Looks fishy to me, because:

With 12m paycoins already premined for the company’s investment partners and customers, only about 500,000 paycoins are available for public mining.

http://www.coindesk.com/gaw-miners-altcoin-launch-sparks-speculative-frenzy/

[coinmaster222]

There also buying it for $20 only thing fishy is you

[ComaWombat]

I have never really understood their reasoning behind not allowing their customers to mine on other pools, especially for their SHA256 contracts

I'm not a data center mining expert, but as a layman I would imagine that it would be difficult to point small fractions of a large farm hashpower to hundreds of different pools.

And when a pool is down and customers try to mine on scrypt pools with their sha-256 Hashlet and so forth, customers would blame GAW and would open thousands of support tickets. After all ZenCloud is (or was) mostly virtual/simulated mining for noobs.

[crazyivan]

Guys, you can admit it or not but GAW s done it. They have introduces a new crypto currentcy with a lot of shiny and new gimmicks and it s about to overtake LTC. At the same time, Mr. Lee says LTC needs no gimmicks. Hm...I do not agree. Everything need to get improved.

[inBitweTrust]

Guys, you can admit it or not but GAW s done it. They have introduces a new crypto currentcy with a lot of shiny and new gimmicks and it s about to overtake LTC. At the same time, Mr. Lee says LTC needs no gimmicks. Hm...I do not agree. Everything need to get improved.

Done it ? You are absolutely delusional.

3 rapid fire unannounced hard forks, no transactions on the paycoin network for over 12 hours because they used the wrong peercoin fork, paybase being delayed a 3rd time at the last minute, no debit card, no major merchant adoption, amazon retaliating and preventing their plugin from use with their servers, and not one paycoin selling for 20USD on any exchange.

At minimum the verdict is still out....

[bitpop]

He's just pumping to get the markets ready for his massive 12 million xpy dump, clear out all exchanges to 0.

[bitgeek]

He's just pumping to get the markets ready for his massive 12 million xpy dump, clear out all exchanges to 0.

And you're just trolling and confusing people as always.

[bitpop]

He's just pumping to get the markets ready for his massive 12 million xpy dump, clear out all exchanges to 0.

And you're just trolling and confusing people as always.

Are you also illiterate? Read the title. Also the url.

[bitgeek]

He's just pumping to get the markets ready for his massive 12 million xpy dump, clear out all exchanges to 0.

And you're just trolling and confusing people as always.

Are you also illiterate? Read the title. Also the url.

I'm not, but you must be. This thread is not even about XPY and you with your altcoin hate are already imagining dumps. It's about time you realized that Bitcoin is not the only crypto in the world.

[sumantso]

Gaw mining is moving slowly away from cloud mining to be a Global Trading Platform with its own currency.A lot of cloud miners are going bust as there is way too many of them to sustain profitability.

They launched their own crypto-currency called PayCoin. They're selling each PayCoin for $20 LOL

Looks fishy to me, because:

With 12m paycoins already premined for the company’s investment partners and customers, only about 500,000 paycoins are available for public mining.

http://www.coindesk.com/gaw-miners-altcoin-launch-sparks-speculative-frenzy/

Number 4 on Coinmarketcap. Whats surprising is that they are holding there, I assumed they would start falling by now.

Lets see how long it lasts.

[inBitweTrust]

Number 4 on Coinmarketcap. Whats surprising is that they are holding there, I assumed they would start falling by now.

Lets see how long it lasts.

This ponzi is well funded, and has a large amount of brainwashed victims thanks to months of culling at hashtalk. I would expect more last minute changes, delays, excuses, new offers, and the hype cycle to continue for another month at least.

Things may go south in as quick as 1 week when KYCs start coming through but this can certainly be extended for longer with the right tricks.

[clownius]

Gaw mining is moving slowly away from cloud mining to be a Global Trading Platform with its own currency.A lot of cloud miners are going bust as there is way too many of them to sustain profitability.

They launched their own crypto-currency called PayCoin. They're selling each PayCoin for $20 LOL

Looks fishy to me, because:

With 12m paycoins already premined for the company’s investment partners and customers, only about 500,000 paycoins are available for public mining.

http://www.coindesk.com/gaw-miners-altcoin-launch-sparks-speculative-frenzy/

Number 4 on Coinmarketcap. Whats surprising is that they are holding there, I assumed they would start falling by now.

Lets see how long it lasts.

We have a massive pump underway.  When he dumps its gonna be downright nasty for the bagholders.  That or he runs out of money/determination to keep the price up by buying anything on offer at ever increasing prices

[sumantso]

Number 4 on Coinmarketcap. Whats surprising is that they are holding there, I assumed they would start falling by now.

Lets see how long it lasts.

This ponzi is well funded, and has a large amount of brainwashed victims thanks to months of culling at hashtalk. I would expect more last minute changes, delays, excuses, new offers, and hype cycle to continue for another month at least.

Things may go south in as quick as 1 week when KYCs start coming through but this can certainly be extended for longer with the right tricks.

They had promised a big buy wall to hold the price at $20. I see no sign of that yet.
Getting this high on Coinmarketcap was a good stunt, it creates free advertisement. I became aware only when I saw it has gone past Bitshares and wondered what it was.

[inBitweTrust]

They had promised a big buy wall to hold the price at $20. I see no sign of that yet.
Getting this high on Coinmarketcap was a good stunt, it creates free advertisement. I became aware only when I saw it has gone past Bitshares and wondered what it was.

Notice how people are begging for the KYC's approval process for paybase which can certainly be started now because their technical incompetence with peercoins code is unrelated(excuse for delay in launching paybase) but they don't start it regardless? They are buying time and extending this as long as possible hoping more people will gamble their BTC away.

[bitpop]

He's just pumping to get the markets ready for his massive 12 million xpy dump, clear out all exchanges to 0.

And you're just trolling and confusing people as always.

Are you also illiterate? Read the title. Also the url.

I'm not, but you must be. This thread is not even about XPY and you with your altcoin hate are already imagining dumps. It's about time you realized that Bitcoin is not the only crypto in the world.

You're just proving my point of how ignorant shitcoiners are.

[bitgeek]

He's just pumping to get the markets ready for his massive 12 million xpy dump, clear out all exchanges to 0.

And you're just trolling and confusing people as always.

Are you also illiterate? Read the title. Also the url.

I'm not, but you must be. This thread is not even about XPY and you with your altcoin hate are already imagining dumps. It's about time you realized that Bitcoin is not the only crypto in the world.

You're just proving my point of how ignorant shitcoiners are.

All bow to the stuck up hodler, to whom all else is a "shitcoin".
Keep dumping your fiat into the new lows of the one and only bitcoin and we'll see who ends up with more profit.

[bitpop]

He's just pumping to get the markets ready for his massive 12 million xpy dump, clear out all exchanges to 0.

And you're just trolling and confusing people as always.

Are you also illiterate? Read the title. Also the url.

I'm not, but you must be. This thread is not even about XPY and you with your altcoin hate are already imagining dumps. It's about time you realized that Bitcoin is not the only crypto in the world.

You're just proving my point of how ignorant shitcoiners are.

All bow to the stuck up hodler, to whom all else is a "shitcoin".
Keep dumping your fiat into the new lows of the one and only bitcoin and we'll see who ends up with more profit.

We will see bitgeek, you come to Russia and we see!

[coinmaster222]

All the people who missed the window to buy at $4 are just jealous.Gaw or not I have made 21btc of this shitcoin as you call it

[inBitweTrust]

All the people who missed the window to buy at $4 are just jealous.Gaw or not I have made 21btc of this shitcoin as you call it

Always a few winners and many losers in Ponzi's. I'll take the moral high ground and not touch them. Profiting off of victims is not ethical.

[Kisokos]

All the people who missed the window to buy at $4 are just jealous.Gaw or not I have made 21btc of this shitcoin as you call it

This.

+1.


As for profiting ponzis - this is not that. He could not have possibly made 21 coins by using the website.
This is profiting from the trades on a free market. Do you have moral problems with that too? Remember, there are people who buy what you sell! lol

[inBitweTrust]

As for profiting ponzis - this is not that. He could not have possibly made 21 coins by using the website.
This is profiting from the trades on a free market. Do you have moral problems with that too? Remember, there are people who buy what you sell! lol

GAW and paycoin are likely ponzis. There is nothing wrong with investing , trading and profiting but doing so within a ponzi is unethical.

[bitpop]

Ponzi hashie closed https://hashie.co

[Kisokos]

As for profiting ponzis - this is not that. He could not have possibly made 21 coins by using the website.
This is profiting from the trades on a free market. Do you have moral problems with that too? Remember, there are people who buy what you sell! lol

GAW and paycoin are likely ponzis. There is nothing wrong with investing , trading and profiting but doing so within a ponzi is unethical.

Well, I will not take a side on GAW cloud mining being a ponzi or not - it is, however a real company with 100m usd backing (= real, serious, invested dev) who released a very promising new altcoin which I'm interested in.
Tbh I've never really been interested in cloud mining unless I can direct the hash to a pool of my choosing. (-> to mine new alts )

[inBitweTrust]

Well, I will not take a side on GAW cloud mining being a ponzi or not - it is, however a real company with 100m usd backing (= real, serious, invested dev) who released a very promising new altcoin which I'm interested in.
Tbh I've never really been interested in cloud mining unless I can direct the hash to a pool of my choosing. (-> to mine new alts )

Any evidence to backup that claim of 100m?

[bitpop]

Gaw is a confirmed scam

[jimmothy]

Well, I will not take a side on GAW cloud mining being a ponzi or not - it is, however a real company with 100m usd backing (= real, serious, invested dev) who released a very promising new altcoin which I'm interested in.
Tbh I've never really been interested in cloud mining unless I can direct the hash to a pool of my choosing. (-> to mine new alts )

Any evidence to backup that claim of 100m?

Did you not hear? GAW's CEO said so himself so therefore it must be true.

Anyways I'd like to introduce you fine investors to jimmothycoin.

So far we've got $10 billion USD backing and some of the investors include Barack Obama, Elon Musk, the Pope, and many more.

We've even elected to spend at least $10,000 dollars to hire actual software devs to create this coin instead of taking the paycoin route and copy/pasting another coin.

[inBitweTrust]

Did you not hear? GAW's CEO said so himself so therefore it must be true.

Anyways I'd like to introduce you fine investors to jimmothycoin.

So far we've got $10 billion USD backing and some of the investors include Barack Obama, Elon Musk, the Pope, and many more.

We've even elected to spend at least $10,000 dollars to hire actual software devs to create this coin instead of taking the paycoin route and copy/pasting another coin.

I'm in as long as you sell me a bridge along with the coins.

[Kisokos]

What, did you guys not get in at .020 ?

[Kisokos]

Gaw is a confirmed scam

They own btc.com.  BAM! in the face!

[viriat0]

had a positive idea for this company. What really happened?

[Kisokos]

had a positive idea for this company. What really happened?

So far they are delivering on the XPY stuff. Today is the big day actually.
They are releasing paybase or what, which supposed to stabilize the price at .06 (it's .044 at the moment) - which is US$20.
I've got in at a much lower price, so I'm happily riding the wave with my measly low number of btcs, making sure to exit while in profit

[Kisokos]

Well, I will not take a side on GAW cloud mining being a ponzi or not - it is, however a real company with 100m usd backing (= real, serious, invested dev) who released a very promising new altcoin which I'm interested in.
Tbh I've never really been interested in cloud mining unless I can direct the hash to a pool of my choosing. (-> to mine new alts )

Any evidence to backup that claim of 100m?

Did you not hear? GAW's CEO said so himself so therefore it must be true.

Anyways I'd like to introduce you fine investors to jimmothycoin.

So far we've got $10 billion USD backing and some of the investors include Barack Obama, Elon Musk, the Pope, and many more.

We've even elected to spend at least $10,000 dollars to hire actual software devs to create this coin instead of taking the paycoin route and copy/pasting another coin.

You are right of course, XPY is a copy of peercoin. They also put down a lousy mil for btc.com, just for the gest of it - show me an altcoin dev who has a mil for a domain & I'm putting some cash there too.

Edit: sorry for effing up the hate thread, I'm outta here

[jimmothy]

Well, I will not take a side on GAW cloud mining being a ponzi or not - it is, however a real company with 100m usd backing (= real, serious, invested dev) who released a very promising new altcoin which I'm interested in.
Tbh I've never really been interested in cloud mining unless I can direct the hash to a pool of my choosing. (-> to mine new alts )

Any evidence to backup that claim of 100m?

Did you not hear? GAW's CEO said so himself so therefore it must be true.

Anyways I'd like to introduce you fine investors to jimmothycoin.

So far we've got $10 billion USD backing and some of the investors include Barack Obama, Elon Musk, the Pope, and many more.

We've even elected to spend at least $10,000 dollars to hire actual software devs to create this coin instead of taking the paycoin route and copy/pasting another coin.

You are right of course, XPY is a copy of peercoin. They also put down a lousy mil for btc.com, just for the gest of it - show me an altcoin dev who has a mil for a domain & I'm putting some cash there too.

Funny you say that because we just spent $50 million on our new domain name. I would tell you the name but I can't because of NDA.

Edit: sorry for effing up the hate thread, I'm outta here

Sorry having a discussion is not really your thing. If you're looking for circlejerking you should probably stick with hashtalk.

[SwissCrypt]

Gaw is a confirmed scam

WOW, that was a statement 

What about making a diet? Going to fitness? Enjoying fresh air?

You could get inspired again after!

Happy new year and Hash on 

[Kisokos]

Well, I will not take a side on GAW cloud mining being a ponzi or not - it is, however a real company with 100m usd backing (= real, serious, invested dev) who released a very promising new altcoin which I'm interested in.
Tbh I've never really been interested in cloud mining unless I can direct the hash to a pool of my choosing. (-> to mine new alts )

Any evidence to backup that claim of 100m?

Did you not hear? GAW's CEO said so himself so therefore it must be true.

Anyways I'd like to introduce you fine investors to jimmothycoin.

So far we've got $10 billion USD backing and some of the investors include Barack Obama, Elon Musk, the Pope, and many more.

We've even elected to spend at least $10,000 dollars to hire actual software devs to create this coin instead of taking the paycoin route and copy/pasting another coin.

You are right of course, XPY is a copy of peercoin. They also put down a lousy mil for btc.com, just for the gest of it - show me an altcoin dev who has a mil for a domain & I'm putting some cash there too.

Funny you say that because we just spent $50 million on our new domain name. I would tell you the name but I can't because of NDA.

Edit: sorry for effing up the hate thread, I'm outta here

Sorry having a discussion is not really your thing. If you're looking for circlejerking you should probably stick with hashtalk.

Ok ok, if you put it that way, I'm staying.

Funny you say that because we just spent $50 million on our new domain name. I would tell you the name but I can't because of NDA.

I get sarcasm, but you are mixing up 2 things a bit here.
1. The NDA story was about the contract with Amazon and 2 other big retail chains only americans care about.
AAAnd you are absolutely right, it sounds fishy to me too. However, within the next 24 hours we should have a definitive answer to this too, as they make the release. Or don't.  

2. The acquisition of the btc.com domain for 1 mil usd is a fact. You can't really get around that with any sarcasm.

[strangerdanger101]

As for profiting ponzis - this is not that. He could not have possibly made 21 coins by using the website.
This is profiting from the trades on a free market. Do you have moral problems with that too? Remember, there are people who buy what you sell! lol

GAW and paycoin are likely ponzis. There is nothing wrong with investing , trading and profiting but doing so within a ponzi is unethical.

I've often wondered, who's worse the ponzi designer himself or those who knowingly invest and promote said ponzi  allowing the ponzi to last even longer bringing down even more victims.

[Kisokos]

As for profiting ponzis - this is not that. He could not have possibly made 21 coins by using the website.
This is profiting from the trades on a free market. Do you have moral problems with that too? Remember, there are people who buy what you sell! lol

GAW and paycoin are likely ponzis. There is nothing wrong with investing , trading and profiting but doing so within a ponzi is unethical.

I've often wondered, who's worse the ponzi designer himself or those who knowingly invest and promote said ponzi  allowing the ponzi to last even longer bringing down even more victims.

Yeah, that's partly the reason why I don't participate in any cloud mining stuff.

But please separate the 2 things.
PayCoin is an altcoin which I trade on the exchanges - That's not a ponzi, it's trading.
Altcoins come and go. Devs scam or legitly fail. Some succeed. You get lucky. More often you get f*kd. You do your homework, you get f*ked less. That's how it is.

[bitpop]

As for profiting ponzis - this is not that. He could not have possibly made 21 coins by using the website.
This is profiting from the trades on a free market. Do you have moral problems with that too? Remember, there are people who buy what you sell! lol

GAW and paycoin are likely ponzis. There is nothing wrong with investing , trading and profiting but doing so within a ponzi is unethical.

I've often wondered, who's worse the ponzi designer himself or those who knowingly invest and promote said ponzi  allowing the ponzi to last even longer bringing down even more victims.

Yeah, that's partly the reason why I don't participate in any cloud mining stuff.

But please separate the 2 things.
PayCoin is an altcoin which I trade on the exchanges - That's not a ponzi, it's trading.
Altcoins come and go. Devs scam or legitly fail. Some succeed. You get lucky. More often you get f*kd. You do your homework, you get f*ked less. That's how it is.

No that's gambling and enriching scammers

[Kisokos]

As for profiting ponzis - this is not that. He could not have possibly made 21 coins by using the website.
This is profiting from the trades on a free market. Do you have moral problems with that too? Remember, there are people who buy what you sell! lol

GAW and paycoin are likely ponzis. There is nothing wrong with investing , trading and profiting but doing so within a ponzi is unethical.

I've often wondered, who's worse the ponzi designer himself or those who knowingly invest and promote said ponzi  allowing the ponzi to last even longer bringing down even more victims.

Yeah, that's partly the reason why I don't participate in any cloud mining stuff.

But please separate the 2 things.
PayCoin is an altcoin which I trade on the exchanges - That's not a ponzi, it's trading.
Altcoins come and go. Devs scam or legitly fail. Some succeed. You get lucky. More often you get f*kd. You do your homework, you get f*ked less. That's how it is.

No that's gambling and enriching scammers

Ideology? We going ideology now? fine by me.


Of course, trading is gambling. Same as on wall street just 1000th the volume. (something I can actually afford (to lose) unlike wall street betting, scuse' me, trading)

Enriching scammers? If you really want to put it that way, well, yeah. But not all the time - that's the point.
I would put it like this: I'm risking my money (=betting) and sometimes I get scammed if I'm not careful enough.

[inBitweTrust]

PayCoin is an altcoin which I trade on the exchanges - That's not a ponzi, it's trading.
Altcoins come and go. Devs scam or legitly fail. Some succeed. You get lucky. More often you get f*kd. You do your homework, you get f*ked less. That's how it is.

Paycoin is likely a pump and dump ponzi predicated upon lies and dishonesty. That places it in a special category of alts that should be avoided.

It isn't simply a matter of being mostly premined and highly inflationary that one should be concerned with. It is with the misleading dishonesty associated with this ICO, the fact that coins "mined" during the PoW phase wered actually mined because those ASICs didn't actually exist, and the fact that its price support is heavily dependent upon prime controllers and hashstakers locking in under contract with the  centralized issuer for 3 to 6 months at a time to stake at a higher rate(in PoS history this is unprecedented and highly dubious)

Top 7 reasons Paycoin will fail soon or within a year.

1) Centralized
2) Difficult to catchup to Bitcoins network effect and first mover advantage
3) Lack of technical innovation , mostly marketing fluff
4) The coin is backed by greedy and dishonest owners and clients many of whom lack technical ability and are simply in it for the money
5) Long term high inflation will lose out to long term deflationary currencies . We have plenty of fiat for you inflationary needs.
6) Paysave is based upon a plugin which breaks merchants TOS. These merchants will either disable the plugin or sue
7) Legal concerns over statements and ICO launch. There is already a mountain of evidence that GAW and josh have lied and misled their clients. All it takes is one disgruntled client, a lawyer , and they have a trove of evidence to sue GAW/paycoin with. Expect heavy legal pressure in the future. This is one of the severe weaknesses with paycoin that Bitcoin is immune from. There is no centralized Bitcoin company to sue or place legal pressure upon. There is no Bitcoin CEO.

[Kisokos]

PayCoin is an altcoin which I trade on the exchanges - That's not a ponzi, it's trading.
Altcoins come and go. Devs scam or legitly fail. Some succeed. You get lucky. More often you get f*kd. You do your homework, you get f*ked less. That's how it is.

Paycoin is likely a pump and dump ponzi predicated upon lies and dishonesty. That places it in a special category of alts that should be avoided.

OK, you are mixing up season and fashion.
Pump and dump is a scheme that all altcoins (can) suffer from given their low market cap. People with any considerable amount of money can artifically inflate prices. This is true for 98% of the altcoins out there.
With XPY it's a bit harder as it's market cap is quite in the upper league. (maybe even in the 2% from the line above)
This scheme can be spotted, avoided, or even made advantage of, depending on your trading and technical analysis / research skills.

Ponzi is a scheme where users register for a service and get paid (unrealisticly high) returns - which are paid from the registering fee / investment of new users. The scheme fails when there are more returns to pay up than
new users registering.
This scheme can be exploited if you get in early and make roi before the whole thing falls apart. This requires some... well, absence of ethics, or stomach, which personally I don't really have.

It isn't simply a matter of being mostly premined and highly inflationary that one should be concerned with. It is with the misleading dishonesty associated with this ICO, the fact that coins "mined" during the PoW phase wered actually mined because those ASICs didn't actually exist, and the fact that its price support is heavily dependent upon prime controllers and hashstakers locking in under contract with the  centralized issuer for 3 to 6 months at a time to stake at a higher rate(in PoS history this is unprecedented and highly dubious)

Ok, let's take this one by one.
- Mostly premined: yes.
- Highly inflationary: No. Assuming the release today fixes the price at or above US$20. Not long to wait now. And No, see second part of price support.
- Dishonesty about ICO, not mined pow coins - what? I missed this, can you give me source please? (I also mined it in the pow phase, so ... double what?)
- Price support: it's highly dependent on their release of PayBase, and the fixed price of XPY there.
All these stakers / controllers are means to control the, wait for it, .... wait for it.... the SUPPLY of XPY. which is quite unique in crypto if I'm not mistaken.
- Staking at a higher rate is questionable, yes. Could be part ponzi, but more likely covered by their other income. Could be that they do have hashing power that generates income.
Remember, if they actually make profit (which I'm sure they do), and share part of this profit with the people who help securing the supply of their coin.... it's actually a dividend payout -> not a ponzi.

Edit: ah, shoot you edited your post with points, hold on.

[inBitweTrust]

- Dishonesty about ICO, not mined pow coins - what? I missed this, can you give me source please? (I also mined it in the pow phase, so ... double what?)

It is likely both a pump and dump and a ponzi.

The evidence has been discussed for some time here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=900970.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857670.0

- Highly inflationary: No. Assuming the release today fixes the price at or above US$20. Not long to wait now. And No, see second part of price support.

Do the math with the hastakers and prime controllers. There is at least 500k of inflation daily. This isn't going to be realized initially because of the unprecedented way in which the stake is locked up by the central issuer and cannot be liquidated. This will eventually place heavy downward pressure upon price. To be fair Bitcoin is also heavily inflationary at around 1.1 million daily but the difference is Bitcoin has the advantage of the network effect and much larger userbase and shortly this inflation will drop from around 10% to 0.5% unlike with paycoin. The 20 base support may eventually be realized or not but will not be sustained because of this long term inflation regardless if you believe in the lie that there is 100 million in investor capital willing to support the coin at 20USD.

- Staking at a higher rate is questionable, yes. Could be part ponzi, but more likely covered by their other income. Could be that they do have hashing power that generates income.
Remember, if they actually make profit (which I'm sure they do), and share part of this profit with the people who help securing the supply of their coin.... it's actually a dividend payout -> not a ponzi.

There will be plenty of people profiting both GAW and original investors. There will be many people who eventually lose everything as well just like with most ponzi's.

[Kisokos]

Top 7 reasons Paycoin will fail soon or within a year.

Excuse me?

Within a year? Are we suddenly looking for the coin that replaces btc? or ltc? Because you will only ever trade the coin that does that? wtf?
Ok, I'll bite.

1) Centralized

Boohooo. At least we have an entity with serious money behind the coin. There's no reason why the community couldn't take over with a few modifications if it becomes real successful and GAW id out of the picture for some reason.

2) Difficult to catchup to Bitcoins network effect and first mover advantage

Hah! there you go! Gotcha! You ARE looking for the thing to replace Bitcoin.
Well, They are aiming to get XPY accepted wherever BTC is - they have (claim to have) GoCoin and whatever the other one was. (sorry brainfart)
if it's true, this is already huge - it's a hell of a lot of retailers. Will find out soon enough.

3) Lack of technical innovation , mostly marketing fluff
The innovation here is the control of supply. That's huge. Huger than huge. Also there's the setting of minimum price, but that's been around a while.
Marketing fluff is how you get new fiat into crypto. I think I can safely assume that we agree on this being a good thing.

4) The coin is backed by greedy and dishonest owners and clients many of whom lack technical ability and are simply in it for the money

Again boohooo. Yeah, I know, it's like.... like.... any other for-profit (and some on-paper non-profit) company in existence, ever. Wow, stay away from that shit!

Just to be a grammar nazi here: having clients with lacking technical abilities is kind of the main point of making any crypto "real mainstream" - even btc couldn't succeed in this regard,
and now that I think about it, I actually see some chance that PayCoin could. Lot of ifs of course.

5) Long term high inflation will lose out to long term deflationary currencies . We have plenty of fiat for you inflationary needs.

Not sure I follow, please elaborate, but consider this:
- Inflation, when controlled, is a Good Thing. That's exactly what PayCoin proposes to do, and no other crypto has done before.
- The argument can not be that "use fiat", come on now. We are in crypto here. Or are we vetting PayCoin to replace every fiat ever? And If it can't it's a shitcoin & scam? I really don't think that's a valid argument.

6)
Paysave is based upon a plugin which breaks merchants TOS. These merchants will either disable the plugin like amazon or sue

Again, what? Did amazon already have this plugin and disable it? It's supposed to come out this week. Where's your info coming from?

7) Legal concerns over statements and ICO launch. There is already a mountain of evidence that GAW and josh have lied and misled their clients. All it takes is one disgruntled client, a lawyer , and they have a trove of evidence to sue GAW/paycoin with. Expect heavy legal pressure in the future. This is one of the severe weaknesses with paycoin that Bitcoin is immune from. There is no centralized Bitcoin company to sue or place legal pressure upon. There is no Bitcoin CEO.

Ah, there you go, now it's fully confirmed that we are vetting PayCoin to replace Bitcoln. Lol OK.
So: See point one. If successful (will turn out in a few weeks time) community can / will take over. I've seen it happen with coins of much much smaller popularity.

[inBitweTrust]

The innovation here is the control of supply. That's huge. Huger than huge.

No, as a capitalist I do not agree with you that its a good thing to control the supply or set a base minimum price. Look at how well price controls and capital flight controls worked in Venezuela as a recent historical example. The fact that this control is being done by a centralized entity is even more concerning and the fact that the 100 million set aside to create this support in investor capital is likely a lie is still another concern.

Just to be a grammar nazi here: having clients with lacking technical abilities is kind of the main point of making any crypto "real mainstream"

The clients I am referring to are the founders, investors and stakers not the average guy who wants to buy something.

Or are we vetting PayCoin to replace every fiat ever? And If it can't it's a shitcoin & scam? I really don't think that's a valid argument.

You are getting ahead of yourself.  Paycoin is competing with other cryptos, not so much fiat at the moment. Some of those cryptos are inflationary and some deflationary. I would posit that any inflationary coins need to have some serious innovation behind(I.E. Ethereum) it and not simply be a rebranded peercoin fork.. Our economics probably differ as you sound like a believer in keynesianism over other models so we will likely disagree on inflation in general.

Again, what? Did amazon already have this plugin and disable it? It's supposed to come out this week. Where's your info coming from?

This has been discussed heavily already. Do some research into coinfire and the original company legal issues which GAW purchased and renamed to paysave.
ZincSave (which breaks amazon's TOS)

[Kisokos]

The evidence has been discussed for some time here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=900970.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857670.0

Duh, long. I'll get back when I read it.

- Highly inflationary: No. Assuming the release today fixes the price at or above US$20. Not long to wait now. And No, see second part of price support.

Do the math with the hastakers and prime controllers. There is at least 500k of inflation daily. This isn't going to be realized initially because of the unprecedented way in which the stake is locked up by the central issuer and cannot be liquidated. This will eventually place heavy downward pressure upon price. To be fair Bitcoin is also heavily inflationary at around 1.1 million daily but the difference is Bitcoin has the advantage of the network effect and much larger userbase and shortly this inflation will drop from around 10% to 0.5% unlike with paycoin. The 20 base support may eventually be realized or not but will not be sustained because of this long term inflation regardless if you believe in the lie that there is 100 million in investor capital willing to support the coin at 20USD.

Ok, I'll take a look at the math. But surely, you can't seriously mean that in your calculations there are 1.1 million bitcoins generated daily? or 500k xpy?  

- Staking at a higher rate is questionable, yes. Could be part ponzi, but more likely covered by their other income. Could be that they do have hashing power that generates income.
Remember, if they actually make profit (which I'm sure they do), and share part of this profit with the people who help securing the supply of their coin.... it's actually a dividend payout -> not a ponzi.

There will be plenty of people profiting both GAW and original investors. There will be many people who eventually lose everything as well just like with most ponzi's

No, what I meant is if the company makes profit and pays out, constantly, and sustainably, it's not a ponzi. By definition. Period.
Do companies fail occasionally? yes.
Are they a ponzi because they failed? No.
Are they a scam? No. (unless of course it's an intentional bankruptcy)

[inBitweTrust]

Ok, I'll take a look at the math. But surely, you can't seriously mean that in your calculations there are 1.1 million bitcoins generated daily? or 500k xpy?

According to Josh's own statement there will be 500k in usd inflation daily for XPY , this is compared to 1.1 million usd in inflation daily for Bitcoin.

Bitcoin will have 6 % inflation in 2016, 5% inflation in 2017, 3% inflation in 2019, and 0.5% inflation in 2026. Paycoin will have at least 5% for the foreseeable future if not higher.

No, what I meant is if the company makes profit and pays out, constantly, and sustainably, it's not a ponzi. By definition. Period.

I understand the differences and yes, I still believe GAW and paycoin to be a likely ponzi.

There is good reason to suspect this is a ponzi by the evidence that has been repeatedly discussed throughout these threads. I am not going to keep repeating them. Do your due diligence and research for yourself.

[Kisokos]

The innovation here is the control of supply. That's huge. Huger than huge.

No, as a capitalist I do not agree with you that its a good thing to control the supply or set a base minimum price. Look at how well price controls and capital flight controls worked in Venezuela as a recent historical example. The fact that this control is being done by a centralized entity is even more concerning and the fact that the 100 million set aside to create this support in investor capital is likely a lie is still another concern.

I have to disagree. Controlling the supply by a centralized entity is how every fiat currency works, ever. Singling out an example when it failed does not invalidate the fact that the same thing is going on with USD, GBP, CHF, well, as I said, every fiat.
Setting a base price is somewhat unique to crypto - unless of course we think about examples like tieing USD to gold, or the current example of Bulgarian lev to EUR.

Just to be a grammar nazi here: having clients with lacking technical abilities is kind of the main point of making any crypto "real mainstream"

The clients I am referring to are the founders, investors and stakers not the average guy who wants to buy something.

Oh, OK. I thought it was just a grammar thing, and mis-ordering of words....
In that case I have to disagree again. "Founders"(=initial investors), normal investors, stakers, average joe, they are ALL in the same category to me.
They introduce fiat into the system - for different reasons of course, but it does not matter in this argument, as we were assessing the importance
of their technical ability. Which is zero. It's like BMW. Do you need to know how the latest BMW security systems, engine, transmission, etc works to buy a car? to buy shares in the company itself?

Or are we vetting PayCoin to replace every fiat ever? And If it can't it's a shitcoin & scam? I really don't think that's a valid argument.

You are getting ahead of yourself.  Paycoin is competing with other cryptos, not so much fiat at the moment. Some of those cryptos are inflationary and some deflationary. I would posit that any inflationary coins need to have some serious innovation behind(I.E. Ethereum) it and not simply be a rebranded peercoin fork.. Our economics probably differ as you sound like a believer in keynesianism over other models so we will likely disagree on inflation in general.

Nah man, you were the one suggesting to use fiat if I want an inflatory medium this was just a response to that, and it seems to have worked

Hmmmm, Innovation.
I've heard this a lot of times, from a lot of folks - coins with innovation will survive, coins without it will die horribly. Then I look at Doge.
Then I concluded that in my opinion, coins with active communities will survive. If the reason for this is technical innovation, good, could work. Or not. If the reason is much wow, then that is the reason.

Hmm, I wouldn't classify myself as a believer, however the keynesian view of public sector intervention (only when necessary) is somehow feels natural to me. Maybe I'm too old (grew up in that era)

Again, what? Did amazon already have this plugin and disable it? It's supposed to come out this week. Where's your info coming from?

This has been discussed heavily already. Do some research into coinfire and the original company legal issues which GAW purchased and renamed to paysave.

Duh, ok. I just heard half-truths and plain FUD from coinfire, so I stopped reading them & put in the pile of horseshit never to touch category.

[bitpop]

Always the same illiterate foreigners defending Homero

[Kisokos]

Ok, I'll take a look at the math. But surely, you can't seriously mean that in your calculations there are 1.1 million bitcoins generated daily? or 500k xpy?

According to Josh's own statement there will be 500k in usd inflation daily for XPY , this is compared to 1.1 million usd in inflation daily for Bitcoin.

Bitcoin will have 6 % inflation in 2016, 5% inflation in 2017, 3% inflation in 2019, and 0.5% inflation in 2026. Paycoin will have at least 5% for the foreseeable future if not higher.

Now, you see, US$ 500k daily is very different to 500k XPY daily. Same for bitcoin figures. That's what I meant.

No, what I meant is if the company makes profit and pays out, constantly, and sustainably, it's not a ponzi. By definition. Period.

I understand the differences and yes, I still believe GAW and paycoin to be a likely ponzi.

There is good reason to suspect this is a ponzi by the evidence that has been repeatedly discussed throughout these threads. I am not going to keep repeating them. Do your due diligence and research for yourself.

Now you are just pulling my leg.
Everything about GAW & research: OK, sure, fair enough.

XPY is a cryptocurrency. It can be traded. It can be pumped & dumped. It can be taken over by the community. It can live it's own life outside of GAW. Even if it's created by GAW.
But a cryptocurrency can not be a ponzi scheme.   (I'm sorry for the harshness, but am I talking to the wall here, seriously? we discussed this 2 posts back, in lenght)

[inBitweTrust]

Duh, ok. I just heard half-truths and plain FUD from coinfire, so I stopped reading them & put in the pile of horseshit never to touch category.

ZincSave was the company purchased (which breaks amazon's TOS)

There are other sources or you can just read the merchants TOS yourself and figure it out if you cared about the truth.
Or just use some common sense and realize that merchants aren't happy that clients can be directed to their competitor or lose a sale with this plugin.

But a cryptocurrency can not be a ponzi scheme.  

It's not that complicated. A company- GAW, can use a cryptocurrency as a vehicle to orchestrate a ponzi. In this case, continue one being that they likely have a history of fractional reserve mining which is a form of a cryptocurrency ponzi.

[Kisokos]

Always the same illiterate foreigners defending Homero

Sure dude, if you can't argue with logic, try to find something personal! LOL You are pathetic.

Also, you are a foreigner to me, and I'm pretty sure that you can not construct a single sentence in my language. So I'm much cooler than you. bububuuuu

[Paul Revere]

@ Kisokos: If you believe one tiny bit of what you are saying, why are you wasting time posting here? If you believe in GAW's lies you should be busy buying more XPY right now, after all you will be able to sell them for $20 soon, right? Shut your piehole and go BUY some XPY.

[inBitweTrust]

@ Kisokos: If you believe one tiny bit of what you are saying, why are you wasting time posting here? If you believe in GAW's lies you should be busy buying more XPY right now, after all you will be able to sell them for $20 soon, right? Shut your piehole and go BUY some XPY.

To be fair , not all these new accounts are shills, he may be sincere and just confused. But yes, it sure is difficult to tell a shill from a genuine paycoin zaelot and we have a right to be suspicious being the long history of GAW using shills, censoring, and pumping out propaganda.

If I were a betting man I would guess he is the real deal and has been taken in by GAW's propaganda machine.

[Paul Revere]

I agree IBWT. I think this guy is a true believer in GAW. But, this does not matter. IF he actually believes the obvious pack of lies from GAW, then he should be busy buying up as much XPY as he possibly can before the "$20 floor" is put in place.

[Kisokos]

@ Kisokos: If you believe one tiny bit of what you are saying, why are you wasting time posting here? If you believe in GAW's lies you should be busy buying more XPY right now, after all you will be able to sell them for $20 soon, right? Shut your piehole and go BUY some XPY.

Heh, thanks, I did, I did, when it was half of the current price, now I'm only here because I enjoy the argument. (and keeping an eye on the exchange so I can get out in profit whatever happens)
Look back, I wanted to leave, but they kept me here.

[Paul Revere]

@ Kisokos: If you believe one tiny bit of what you are saying, why are you wasting time posting here? If you believe in GAW's lies you should be busy buying more XPY right now, after all you will be able to sell them for $20 soon, right? Shut your piehole and go BUY some XPY.

Heh, thanks, I did, I did, when it was half of the current price, now I'm only here because I enjoy the argument. (and keeping an eye on the exchange so I can get out in profit whatever happens)
Look back, I wanted to leave, but they kept me here.

I would never have guessed that.

[Kisokos]

@ Kisokos: If you believe one tiny bit of what you are saying, why are you wasting time posting here? If you believe in GAW's lies you should be busy buying more XPY right now, after all you will be able to sell them for $20 soon, right? Shut your piehole and go BUY some XPY.

To be fair , not all these new accounts are shills, he may be sincere and just confused. But yes, it sure is difficult to tell a shill from a genuine paycoin zaelot and we have a right to be suspicious being the long history of GAW using shills, censoring, and pumping out propaganda.

If I were a betting man I would guess he is the real deal and has been taken in by GAW's propaganda machine.

Ah, hey hey, I'm here, don't talk about me like I'm not
I'm no shill, and as you can see from some of my posts, I disclosed my involvement it this. Which goes as far as buying low and selling high.
You wanted to go into the direction of PayCoin vs Bitcoin, and I thought why not, it could be a good argument.

[Kisokos]

@ Kisokos: If you believe one tiny bit of what you are saying, why are you wasting time posting here? If you believe in GAW's lies you should be busy buying more XPY right now, after all you will be able to sell them for $20 soon, right? Shut your piehole and go BUY some XPY.

Heh, thanks, I did, I did, when it was half of the current price, now I'm only here because I enjoy the argument. (and keeping an eye on the exchange so I can get out in profit whatever happens)
Look back, I wanted to leave, but they kept me here.

I would never have guessed that.

Yeah man. Guy comes at you with stuff like he did - just look back - of course you stay around and poke his balls with some proper logic

[Paul Revere]

@ Kisokos: If you believe one tiny bit of what you are saying, why are you wasting time posting here? If you believe in GAW's lies you should be busy buying more XPY right now, after all you will be able to sell them for $20 soon, right? Shut your piehole and go BUY some XPY.

Heh, thanks, I did, I did, when it was half of the current price, now I'm only here because I enjoy the argument. (and keeping an eye on the exchange so I can get out in profit whatever happens)
Look back, I wanted to leave, but they kept me here.

I would never have guessed that.

Yeah man. Guy comes at you with stuff like he did - just look back - of course you stay around and poke his balls with some proper logic

Logic is something that you clearly do not have a grasp of, at all. You say you "are only here for the argument", which is total BS. There is no argument here. There are people stating the facts and an asshole completely ignoring them for the express purpose of annoying people for his own twisted amusement. Go shovel some sidewalks or something so you can buy some more XPY....

[Kisokos]

Duh, ok. I just heard half-truths and plain FUD from coinfire, so I stopped reading them & put in the pile of horseshit never to touch category.

ZincSave was the company purchased (which got banned by amazon)

There are other sources or you can just read the merchants TOS yourself and figure it out if you cared about the truth.
Or just use some common sense and realize that merchants aren't happy that clients can be directed to their competitor or lose a sale with this plugin.

Agreed, that whole process looks a bit backwards to me.

But a cryptocurrency can not be a ponzi scheme.  

It's not that complicated. A company- GAW, can use a cryptocurrency as a vehicle to orchestrate a ponzi. In this case, continue one being that they likely have a history of fractional reserve mining which is a form of a cryptocurrency ponzi.
[/quote]

It is in fact very simple. If you trade a crypto currency on an exchange you can not get "ponzied". You can get dumped on, but that's what stop loss is for.

[Paul Revere]

The "Ignore" button is the stop-loss for this forum. Goodbye forever.

[Kisokos]

@ Kisokos: If you believe one tiny bit of what you are saying, why are you wasting time posting here? If you believe in GAW's lies you should be busy buying more XPY right now, after all you will be able to sell them for $20 soon, right? Shut your piehole and go BUY some XPY.

Heh, thanks, I did, I did, when it was half of the current price, now I'm only here because I enjoy the argument. (and keeping an eye on the exchange so I can get out in profit whatever happens)
Look back, I wanted to leave, but they kept me here.

I would never have guessed that.

Yeah man. Guy comes at you with stuff like he did - just look back - of course you stay around and poke his balls with some proper logic

Logic is something that you clearly do not have a grasp of, at all. You say you "are only here for the argument", which is total BS. There is no argument here. There are people stating the facts and an asshole completely ignoring them for the express purpose of annoying people for his own twisted amusement. Go shovel some sidewalks or something so you can buy some more XPY....

Wow, that's a nice argument. Hold on a sec. Who's the shill now? Are you really? Hah I found a shill!
Now I wonder who's it is..... let's see...

[Kisokos]

The "Ignore" button is the stop-loss for this forum. Goodbye forever.

Hah, yes. Lol, nice. Confirmed FUDster.
If you don't mind me asking, how much do you get for this? (genuinely interested, pm is fine, I won't tell)

[bitpop]

Paycoin is everything Bitcoin stands against, inflation, identification, centralization, staking, seizing, etc.

[inBitweTrust]

It is in fact very simple. If you trade a crypto currency on an exchange you can not get "ponzied". You can get dumped on, but that's what stop loss is for.

Well thanks for clarifying the obvious, I guess. Paycoin is both a company, site and cryptocurrency. I am not here to argue but inform and assist, you seem to either be rationalizing or just want to argue for its own sake.

[Snipe85]

The "Ignore" button is the stop-loss for this forum. Goodbye forever.

Don't be so rude Paul. You registered on this forum just 2 weeks and getting close to 150 posts about GAW.

[Kisokos]

Always the same illiterate foreigners defending Homero

Who the f*ck is Homero by the way?

[inBitweTrust]

Always the same illiterate foreigners defending Homero

Who the f*ck is Homero by the way?

Josh's other , or real name.

[Snipe85]

Always the same illiterate foreigners defending Homero

Who the f*ck is Homero by the way?

Josh's other , or real name.

Isn't Josh also his real name?

[Kisokos]

Always the same illiterate foreigners defending Homero

Who the f*ck is Homero by the way?

Josh's other , or real name.

Isn't Josh also his real name?

What, it's like Homero Joshua ? lol, nice.

[inBitweTrust]

What, it's like Homero Joshua ? lol, nice.

Homero Joshua Garza

Regardless, it doesn't really matter except when the legal suits start occurring.

[Snipe85]

Knc confirmed fraud

Ponzi hashie closed https://hashie.co

https://hashie.co fraud complete, Knc closes next

Gaw is a confirmed scam

Short generic troll posts, now that's how you quickly get your post count up, kids.

[Kisokos]

What, it's like Homero Joshua ? lol, nice.

Homero Joshua Garza

Regardless, it doesn't really matter except when the legal suits start occurring.

Yeah, fair enough, you don't really choose your name. (except when you do)

[bitpop]

Knc confirmed fraud

Ponzi hashie closed https://hashie.co

https://hashie.co fraud complete, Knc closes next

Gaw is a confirmed scam

Short generic troll posts, now that's how you quickly get your post count up, kids.

Funny ignorant loser

Posts aren't even shown

[Kisokos]

Is this all? No more fud and throwing shit at me?

(edit: or maybe some more proper discussion? - about anything)

[inBitweTrust]

Is this all? No more fud and throwing shit at me?

(edit: or maybe some more proper discussion? - about anything)

I don't care for FUD, trolls, or personal attacks. If you have something constructive to add than please do so , otherwise look elsewhere.

[Kisokos]

Is this all? No more fud and throwing shit at me?

(edit: or maybe some more proper discussion? - about anything)

I don't care for FUD, trolls, or personal attacks. If you have something constructive to add than please do so , otherwise look elsewhere.

Well, all right then, I have to say I enjoyed our discussion mate.
OK true, we argued about GAW and ponzi / not ponzi; but we discussed more interesting and generic subjects like inflation, innovation etc.
It was a good one. And thanks for the links, I'm off to read now.

See you around.

[Paul Revere]

Something I have to mention here: Until getting into this GAW discussion, "Fud" was a term used to describe the female genitalia in my vocabulary. It is the British/Scottish/Irish equivalent for "C*NT". For a while I was wondering why everybody was was yelling "C#NT" this and "C^NT" that all the time. I actually had to look up FUD as used in internet forums. Hilarious.  

I love Fud! LMFAO!!

[inBitweTrust]

Well, all right then, I have to say I enjoyed our discussion mate.
OK true, we argued about GAW and ponzi / not ponzi; but we discussed more interesting and generic subjects like inflation, innovation etc.
It was a good one. And thanks for the links, I'm off to read now.

See you around.

Good luck on your research, ciao .

Something I have to mention here: Until getting into this GAW discussion, "Fud" was a term used to describe the female genitalia in my vocabulary. It is the British/Scottish/Irish equivalent for "C*NT". For a while I was wondering why everybody was was yelling "C#NT" this and "C^NT" that all the time. I actually had to look up FUD as used in internet forums. Hilarious. 

I love Fud! LMFAO!!

That is really funny...

[inBitweTrust]

So it appears as if GAW couldn't end up securing any real merchant partnerships they boasted as having. So they ended up buying Zincsave in a last ditch attempt to make it appear that you can spend XPY at major merchants when all they are doing is exchnaging the XPY for BTC or Fiat behind the scenes.

Here are the problems with ZincSave Paysave


https://www.paybase.com/faq.html#where-will-my-order-come-from

Where will my order come from?

We fulfill your order from the lowest cost vendor or retailer. This means that if you place an order using the PaySave button on Macy's, it may come in a box from Walmart, or vice versa.

What retailers are supported?

PaySave currently supports Walmart, Macy's, and Target. We'll be supporting more retailers very soon! Homepage mentions amazon but FAQ omits.


The way is works:

http://lifehacker.com/zinc-skips-the-coupon-clipping-and-automatically-applie-1532877581
They joined that retailer's affiliate program and give you portion of their referral commission. All four of the retailers mentioned have an affiliate program with their online store.

Which means it's NOT a real coupon. It's commission split. This also means if you used any referral links, like you clicked through someone else's referral link, this will likely "steal" that referral and substitute their own.


What clients don't like about it:


1) Shipping may take longer
2) The ordered items don't appear on the clients history
3) Returns and cancellations have to be handled through zincsave and not directly through amazon
4) Products may come from another company entirely (This is the part you need to pay attention to as paysave will scalp sales from merchants)


What amazon TOS says about it:

We've received an official response from Amazon regarding the Chrome extension and intend on publishing it in the near future once all of the facts are gathered in the matter but I'm going to take the highlights of the response and share them here in the meantime.

"Amazon does not allow nor condone the use of any piece of software that violates our terms of service specifically the following sections:

[...] will not intercept, record, redirect, read, interpret, or fill in the contents of any electronic form or other material submitted to us by any person or entity.

[...] will not request, collect, obtain, store, cache, or otherwise use any account information used by our customers in connection with any Amazon Site [...]

[...] will not modify, redirect, suppress, or substitute the operation of any button, link, or other feature of the Amazon Site.

[...] will not make any orders or engage in other transactions of any kind on the Amazon Site on behalf of any other person or entity, or authorize, assist, or encourage any other person or entity to do so.

[...] will not take any action that could reasonably cause any customer confusion as to our relationship with you, or as to the site on which any functions or transactions (e.g., search, browse, or order) are occurring.

Any piece of software, extension or other system which implies a partnership or intercepts customers or customer information is in direct violation of our terms and Amazon will act accordingly."

These are just some highlights. As we continue securing facts and information our team will work to publish a full piece.

Meanwhile you can already save 15-20% on amazon with purse.io or 3% from amazon and any other merchant with Gyft in Bitcoin and not have to deal with paysave problems.

[ashinners1980]

http://postimg.org/image/pdz3nu74v/

[cloverme]

http://postimg.org/image/pdz3nu74v/

That's not real or it's been removed.
http://www.sec.gov/litigation/admin.shtml#fourthq

[bitpop]

Homero scammed hashie

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2qrz67/i_was_the_owner_of_hashieco_until_josh_garza/

[Snipe85]

Homero scammed hashie

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2qrz67/i_was_the_owner_of_hashieco_until_josh_garza/

Homero stole hashie
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2qrz67/i_was_the_owner_of_hashieco_until_josh_garza/

Obvious spammer is obvious...

[favelle75]

In the last days i read alot about the GAWminers.com-story and i recommend that everybody should do that. I guess we could end here with an "mtgox 2.0" scenario and that will hurt bitcoins reputation. I dont want that. Thats the reason for this topic and the time that i "waste" with it   .

The story began with an article from the news-site coinfire. I visit alot of these sites and alot of them post crap-news or get paid for their news (google). I cant say something bad about coinfire and no, i dont get paid to write that. There are also other good pages like Coindesk and so on...or the news section here on the forum  



Is GAW Miners Lying about Partnerships?

Recently the CEO of GAW Miners claimed publicly that the company and he personally have sealed up partnerships and deals with Target, Amazon, and Walmart about the coin and the company.

Josh also made a claim in an interview with CCN about Authy that they were single-handedly stress testing the Authy service because the requests are so high and outperforming other Authy users,

"ZenCloud Now Sends More Requests to Authy (a 2 factor authentication service) than Coinbase and CEX!

And, it’s all because of you guys.

Earlier this week, Authy called us and said our users were stressing their network. Authy is an amazing company. Turns out ZenCloud users are pinging Authy for more 2FA requests than any other company in the space. Even more than CoinBase and CEX.io received communication from Authy."

( -> not a single proof about that claim. )

Coin Fire has learned these recent claims are stretching the truth or outright lies.

...

While Josh is declaring publicly and implying a partnership with all three companies it would seem that all three are disavowing any sort of partnership. We have reached out to GAW Miners for a statement about these statements but once again the company has repeatedly denied our staff a statement.

-> all companies denied that they deal with "GAWminers.com". A clear lie from GAWminers.com.  not a single proof about that claim . )

Coin Fire has reached out multiple times for comments on this story and a response from GAW Miners before publishing this article. If Josh Garza and GAW Miners can give complete evidence that any of the companies he has before mentioned are entering a BONAFIDE partnership and said company is willing to go on the record we will update this story. However, at this time, each company has OUTRIGHT DENIED each of Garza’s statements.

(-> no comment of course. no proof about anything )

https://coinfire.cf/2014/11/22/is-gaw-miners-lying-about-partnerships/


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Next story was posted by coinfire some months ago:


Review: Plenty of Concerns with GAW Miners Hashlet Service

GAW Miners recently made the rounds with a blitz of marketing and excitement with the launch of the new GAW Miners Hashlet.

...

I found it strange that the company implies that you are pointing your mining power to a different pool however when you are changing where you are mining but it turns out that this isn’t actually the case. Initially several pool operators that are on the site as option began crying foul when they saw zero increase of hashing power on the pools they operated and began asking the company to give proof that miners were actually coming online for the pool selected.

...

I also have found it strange that the company markets miners that are named after the various pool offerings when those miners will never actually touch those pools. While his justification can make sense on a certain level the simple fact is that it implies the miners actually run on those pools for many users.

Another issue that I have with the service is that they have NOT provided proof of a single block mined to date.

I have an issue with a provider that doesn’t give transparency about the miners, where they are mining, what the current hash rate is, where that power is pointed and proof that they are mining. It has been quite sometime since they concerns have been raised on various forums across the Internet and the company has failed to discuss many of them to date.

...

Coin Fire reached out to GAW Miners several times for a comment before running this piece and each time we received zero response.

( -> what a suprise. not a single proof about their mining. not even a fake-photo! )


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A Critical Look at GAWminers.com

So I've been seeing quite a bit of buzz about this new cloud miner called "the Hashlet" which is being promoted at every corner by GAWminers. Intrigued, I went to look at the product and found the following claims:

"Guaranteed Profitability! Because the maintenence fee for Hashlets reduces over time, the hashlet will always be making money forever. There's no chance of a negative return.
Only Hashlets can mine on the "ZenPool", which can deliver twice the payout of any other pool."

If GAW is a Ponzi it's a shame that this will be many newbies first introduction to the crypto world.


(-> the never ending money-machine. we found it   )

http://www.asicspace.com/blog/2014/11/13/a-critical-look-at-gawminerscom


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Summary:

1 ) They are selling virtual hashes without the actual machines backing it.

2 ) No relevant pictures of their hardware and datacenter

3 ) They are falsify payouts according to pools that never existed or never received hashes from GAW.

4 ) They are known and have been caught using shill accounts. Not just the company but the CEO himself. Josh Garza.

5 ) They said that confire never contacted them before they published the story - lie.

6 ) They said they work with Amazon and Walmart - lie.

7 ) Where is the serious audit of your company Josh? You said there was one in the begin of december 2014  

8 ) No comment on these serious questions / problems.


We all know that bitcoin will always attract bad actors. This story isnt the first and isnt the last one. We should do what we can to prevent the bad end.


Some more links:

http://techcrunch.com/2014/08/08/an-interview-with-josh-garza-ceo-of-gaw-miners-on-his-1-million-purchase-of-btc-com/

http://de.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2njno5/ama_request_josh_garza_if_what_you_say_is_true/

http://de.scribd.com/doc/248372603/Coinfire-Cease-and-Desist

http://techcrunch.com/2014/08/08/an-interview-with-josh-garza-ceo-of-gaw-miners-on-his-1-million-purchase-of-btc-com/

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2nivi0/gaw_miners_take_down_notice_to_coin_fire/cme227c


History of the CEO:

http://www.reddit.com/r/litecoinmining/comments/1yqx55/mining_rig_builders_do_not_sell_anything_or/

Cool story. I think I'll stay away from LiteCoinGuy instead. He seems scammy. Much like the coin that's dropped in value by 95%.

[OleOle]

I think that Reuters or Bloomberg would have been happy to pick up a story relating to Target and Amazon. Whilst I don't religiously look for bitcoin stories in these two sources, bitcoin articles generally have a fair amount of airtime as headlines on their home pages and I've never heard of any substantial deals being made in relation to any bitcoin companies, least of all GAWminers. Searching for 'gawminers' on bloomberg.com and reuters.com produces no results - seems obvious to think that if there was any truth in the story that these major retailers were involved these two main global business news sites would report on it. Indeed, if it was in any way material, both companies would have an obligation to release the information to their investors via the NYSE and from there it might get media air time... but no airtime, so nothing to see here it seems.

In general terms, the company and CEO have made some claims that smell like bullshit and if it smells like bullshit, it usually is bullshit. At the very least it is meaningless self-aggrandizement, at worst it's an attempt to misrepresent and defraud, either way, it's not the style of company that I'd be interested in doing business with.

As I've said before, I don't have any first-hand dealings with or knowledge of this company, but having seen and been caught by a couple of scams and suspicious 'business failures' ranging from BFL, TradeFortress, Bitfunder and MtGox, until this company offers substantial, verifiable and legitimate proof that it's not another ponzi or 'accident waiting to happen', then I'll be staying well away from it.

Too many people have lost too much money to take seriously any company which bullshits about deals with major retailers.

Why does this thread exist? - you can probably call it a 'bullshit detector'.

What came first, the bullshit or the thread? - obviously the bullshit came first or the thread would have nothing substantial to report.

There's other ways to get involved in bitcoin, do not throw your money away on schemes that promise the Earth and deliver nothing. You can also ignore crappy one liner rebuttals from sycophants, trolls or gawpuppets hawking their wares, their comments are so weak they don't even present any evidence in support, so they are easily seen through as insubstantial, substandard and generally reflect badly on the retardation level of their authors.

Do your research, read every opinion and piece of information you can find, make up your own mind, but look before you leap, you'll be very glad you did.

 

[LiteCoinGuy]

people (mainstream media) will blame bitcoin for this disaster. maybe we get more laws because of this. sad but thats the way we go.  

its like the last days of mtgox. alot of people sent money to that service and give a shit about warning-signs all over the place 

[bitpop]

Beware there is no more floor. Now you get banned for mentioning the $20.

[LiteCoinGuy]

Beware there is no more floor. Now you get banned for mentioning the $20.

no more 20 USD? give me more info, i didnt know that  
i guess now he will pay 40 USD per scamcoin? or 400 USD.....in 2016! 100%!

Amazon says : legit!

[Snipe85]

Beware there is no more floor. Now you get banned for mentioning the $20.

Ban is something you could really use, spammer.

[bitpop]

Beware there is no more floor. Now you get banned for mentioning the $20.

Ban is something you could really use, spammer.

Still pumping? Shill

[Snipe85]

Beware there is no more floor. Now you get banned for mentioning the $20.

Ban is something you could really use, spammer.

Still pumping? Shill

You don't even know who a shill is, but you know how to spam.

[LiteCoinGuy]

Here some spam  

PayCoin – The Next Big Scam In Crypto

PayCoin (XPY) an altcoin backed by GAW miners, which is believed to be a scam, recently joined the Top 5 club of cryptocurrencies according to its market valuation on CoinMarketCap. At the time of valuation, PayCoin was also informally launched on 16th December with an initial investment of $54.5 million brought into the market. It is also believed that PayCoin is part of a ponzi scheme with GAW Miners playing a major role.

http://www.btcfeed.net/fraud/paycoin-next-big-scam-crypto/


Note: Market Cap is actually 97.22% premine according to https://gist.github.com/jyap808/3f99de084df18ce325a7

[LiteCoinGuy]

Amazon Further Denies PayBase / GAW Miners Involvement

A few short weeks ago, Coin Fire spoke to officials at Amazon and other retailers about the implementation of PayCoin as a shopping option. We established with the retailers that none of them had any plans to integrate the cryptocurrency directly despite the repeated claims of Josh Garza and users on the HashTalk forums.

https://coinfire.cf/2014/12/31/amazon-further-denies-paybase-gaw-miners-involvement/#comment-5183

some more "spam" 

[LiteCoinGuy]

Massive Security Breach at Paybase

This morning Coin Fire is learning of a major and massive security breach that happened on GAW Miner’s Paybase product.

The breach is just another stumble in a long list of issues this past week with GAW Miners after Amazon spokespeople told Coin Fire they were not working with the company to implement Paycoin shopping.

https://coinfire.cf/2014/12/31/massive-security-breach-at-paybase/

[bitpop]

Here's more spam, there is no price floor

https://hashtalk.org/topic/26931/xpy-price-floor/

[kaykawa]

Good news from webpages who nobody knows
who cares ?   

[cloverme]

Here's more spam, there is no price floor

https://hashtalk.org/topic/26931/xpy-price-floor/

That's an amazing thread, it's shocking to see the responses for the corporate support for a coin that went from $20 to $6. There are people in that thread saying, "i'm with you boss".  GAW has this strange undying support, it seems to stem from these posts from Josh as the underdog in a big epic battle against everyone else. People seem to buy that up and put their money behind it with unwavering commitment.   

I think what's most disturbing though, is that GAW went full-paycoin and dumped the rest of their mining business model. I always saw paycoin is a little niche, not a full blown revolution of crypto. Maybe they'll diversify again and get back into mining crypto in the traditional sense.

[LiteCoinGuy]

This scam is going to destroy cryptocurrency for many people

When things do finally collapse related to GAW Miners, Josh Garza, and Paycoin it isn’t just going to hurt the people involved. It isn’t going to just be the people who lose money.

https://medium.com/@BTCtom/this-isnt-awesome-shit-it-isnt-gawsome-bfe1fe3f0347

[Bit_Happy]

"Josh Garza @gawceo  ·  22h 22 hours ago
We had a detailed review by a highly respected 3rd party today. They reviewed our wallets and mining center information. Public next week!"

Wait for this and then eat your own words.

Gox also had a "review by a highly respected 3rd party", and how did that work out?

[bitpop]

jmordica's Mining Statement: http://youtu.be/ZY284WtOd9A

[Mr Felt]

jmordica's Mining Statement: http://youtu.be/ZY284WtOd9A

The guy referenced here?  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857670.msg10015364#msg10015364

[bitpop]

jmordica's Mining Statement: http://youtu.be/ZY284WtOd9A

The guy referenced here?  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857670.msg10015364#msg10015364

Yah looks like he stole the guys name

They also just deleted the video to cover their tracks

[leonaa]

"Josh Garza @gawceo  ·  22h 22 hours ago
We had a detailed review by a highly respected 3rd party today. They reviewed our wallets and mining center information. Public next week!"

Wait for this and then eat your own words.

Gox also had a "review by a highly respected 3rd party", and how did that work out?

So basically, nothing really helps if a platform is directed to a centralized system. Even if its a decentralized coin.. fml the early days of bitcoin is still around.

Like this GAWminers and pbmining and other crappy service.

[LiteCoinGuy]

brumm bruummmmmm  




Man, you should buy a Lambo!

[LiteCoinGuy]

Theymos Claims Josh Garza Is Sending Him Legal Threats To Have Content Removed


Asked his opinion of GAW's founder Josh Garza and Paycoin itself, Theymos said:1

    From what I've read, GAW Miners used to be a decent hardware company. However:

        Paycoin is really stupid.
        Cloud mining in general is a very dangerous field to invest in. (As if mining wasn't dangerous enough…)
        Jeff Garza and his lawyers keep sending me legal threats to try to get me to remove things from /r/Bitcoin and bitcointalk.org, which is extremely suspicious and annoying.

    I recommend avoiding them as much as possible.


http://qntra.net/2015/01/theymos-claims-josh-garza-is-sending-him-legal-threats-to-have-content-removed/

make sure you make a copy of everything just in case...


(edited the link)

[DeboraMeeks]

Theymos Claims Josh Garza Is Sending Him Legal Threats To Have Content Removed

http://de.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2r6c6m/theymos_claims_josh_garza_is_sending_him_legal/

make sure you make a copy of everything just in case...

Someone, along with their lawyers should be noting everything down.

[inBitweTrust]

Someone, along with their lawyers should be noting everything down.

we all are..

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=900970.0

[LiteCoinGuy]

Best of:

You will not see me here as often in the future.

people on your forum dont care, they love you  
enjoye the money Josh. Thanks for the show   . And you created an new word after "Goxxed" - "GAWSOME"!



We boy oh boy have some things coming, (no more pre-announcements!)

that is a pre-announcement and nothing is coming.   !



We used to make things that blew the industry away.

one of the biggest scams after mtgox, correct.

[strangerdanger101]

jmordica's Mining Statement: http://youtu.be/ZY284WtOd9A

I wonder why the cover up is it because of the hashlet promise thats gone south: "hashlets will never be obsolete with reduced maintenance fees and additional algorithms"  they are obsolete now paying out shit and the ones converted to stakers turned to shit pumping out shit coins.  Its a shit Tsunami.

[LiteCoinGuy]

Video is gone. We/You have to copy everything before they (GAW-Staff) can deleet it. the victims need that for the lawsuits.

[NeonTranceBadger]

Video is gone. We/You have to copy everything before they (GAW-Staff) can deleet it. the victims need that for the lawsuits.

After they deleted the mining video, I downloaded all the Q&As.

[LiteCoinGuy]

Video is gone. We/You have to copy everything before they (GAW-Staff) can deleet it. the victims need that for the lawsuits.

After they deleted the mining video, I downloaded all the Q&As.

thx, you can post that here if you like.

[NeonTranceBadger]

Video is gone. We/You have to copy everything before they (GAW-Staff) can deleet it. the victims need that for the lawsuits.

After they deleted the mining video, I downloaded all the Q&As.

thx, you can post that here if you like.

Once I found somewhere to upload them I will get links posted for them to be downloaded.

[OleOle]

I'm wondering if it is too soon to guess when the implosion will happen?

I'm going to call for end of June 2015, let's say the second quarter this calendar year, we'll coin a phrase and say that I am 'medium pessimistic'.

Is anyone 'more pessimistic' and think they'll implode before the end of Q2?

Or 'less pessimistic' and think it will be sometime after the end of June 2015? Or even 2016 or beyond?

Of course there could be people who are 'optimistic' and imagine that the company will continue?

But really, the only thing I can see are massive capital losses and destruction of value for the vast majority of individuals involved.

 

[LiteCoinGuy]

CryptoCoinsNews and GAW Miners Sitting in a Tree… K I S S I N G.

How CryptoCoinNews is directly involved in the GAW Scam. SOME of the photographic and archived evidence that CCN is a shill for the scam.

https://medium.com/@BTCtom/cryptocoinsnews-and-gaw-miners-sitting-in-a-tree-k-i-s-s-i-n-g-afe20eecc080?r=reddit

[mayax]

how big is this Gaw/ponzi?

[LiteCoinGuy]

how big is this Gaw/ponzi?

maybe 50-200 millions? only Garza knows that exactly.

-----------

XPY Purchasing by Credit Card Disabled by Stripe for TOS Violation

Late last night, Joe Mordica and the PayBase team were excited to launch a new feature allowing users to buy XPY with a credit card on PayBase.

The system relied on Stripe and was disabled this evening after Stripe found the service to be in violation of the Stripe Terms of Service. The Stripe account, registered to Paybase, LLC, was found to be in violation late last evening and was disabled this evening.

https://coinfire.cf/2015/01/09/xpy-purchasing-by-credit-card-disabled-by-stripe-for-tos-violation/

[LiteCoinGuy]

not enough miners. now we know, why the light was off in the video some weeks ago  !

[sgk]

So....    the GAW CEO has been confirmed as a speaker at Bitcoin Miami conference.

https://twitter.com/coindesk/status/553624460230950913

It is sad when known scammers are the face of crypto community.

[bitgeek]

So....    the GAW CEO has been confirmed as a speaker at Bitcoin Miami conference.

https://twitter.com/coindesk/status/553624460230950913

It is sad when known scammers are the face of crypto community.

That's great. He has the right to defend himself in public.

[clownius]

So....    the GAW CEO has been confirmed as a speaker at Bitcoin Miami conference.

https://twitter.com/coindesk/status/553624460230950913

It is sad when known scammers are the face of crypto community.

That's great. He has the right to defend himself in public.

As with the Debate he asked for and was offered he will try and worm his way out of it.

Unless of course he can pre-approve all questions and reply in writing at a later date once his lawyer and PR people make sure hes not totally putting his foot in his mouth.

Or will it be like his Reddit AMA.  Create a sock puppet to say something mean as soon as he receives a hard question and refuse to answer any more.

Hes lost outside his HT forum where he just shadow bans anyone asking hard questions or pointing out hard facts so the rest of the cult doesnt realise how bad hes scamming them.

[LiteCoinGuy]

to bad for the victims. he will say something like "oh, things went wrong but we are working on it to make paybase HUGE"

lol....what a bad show.

---------



 

[mayax]

have you got the funds back to your bank account ?

If not, what are you waiting for? 1 BTC = 5 USD?

[bitgeek]

have you got the funds back to your bank account ?

If not, what are you waiting for? 1 BTC = 5 USD?

Bitcoin won't be worth 5 USD, don't you worry. It's almost at 200 atm and those who keep the funds with GAW don't care about the price of BTC but XPY (XPY went up recently).

[LiteCoinGuy]

Josh Garza attending, not speaking at NABC in Miami

http://de.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2sn616/josh_garza_attending_not_speaking_at_nabc_in_miami/

[bitgeek]

Josh Garza attending, not speaking at NABC in Miami

http://de.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2sn616/josh_garza_attending_not_speaking_at_nabc_in_miami/

The usual FUD and trolling...

https://hashtalk.org/topic/29341/still-speaking

On 16 Jan 2015 13:45, "Josh Garza" wrote:
Hey, your email created some confusion. (...) I am not clear why you wrote I would not be speaking.

[jimmothy]

Josh Garza attending, not speaking at NABC in Miami

http://de.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2sn616/josh_garza_attending_not_speaking_at_nabc_in_miami/

The usual FUD and trolling...

Check out this FUD and trolling: http://forum.gethashing.com/t/xpy-paycoin-discussion/90/

Oh wait those aren't trolls, they are hashtalks "most reputable users".

[OleOle]

Josh Garza attending, not speaking at NABC in Miami

http://de.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2sn616/josh_garza_attending_not_speaking_at_nabc_in_miami/

The usual FUD and trolling...

Check out this FUD and trolling: http://forum.gethashing.com/t/xpy-paycoin-discussion/90/

Oh wait those aren't trolls, they are hashtalks "most reputable users".

So for those people who aren't interested in reading a whole discussion which includes a few supposed 'names' and plenty of 'no names', what's the point you're trying to make?

Just be clear, don't link or quote the world, there's people here who're trying to make there own mind up on the issue raised in the title of this thread. You're pretty articulate when you want to be Jim, don't make the world zone out and miss the import of your meaning by linking to crappolla, just say what you want to say directly, we'll understand.

 


-----

Just by way of observation, this quotation from your supposed 'trust' rating:

"Slark 0: -0 / +0(0)   2014-12-05   0.00000000   Reference   This user is a serial shill. Caught using 4 accounts to promote GAW while taking advantage of their signature campaign.

Known shill accounts:

Slark
Hazir
maku
Snorek"


You know damn well I wouldn't trust you as far as I could throw you, you shilled for months on how good Black Arrow were and there's now about 400 pages of discrediting information on BA on this forum, even the Bitcointalk forum owner Theymos resurrected deleted information on BA due to their unconscionable scamming practices:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=774278.0

Disregard anything this shill cocksucker has to say and don't make the mistake of thinking I'll be spending time reinforcing my perspective, you've been a known asshole for well over a year, so post your rebuttals which I'll ignore and get on with your shallow shill life.

New users, ignore this asshole, he can be articulate and artful when he wants to be, but he's a known apologist for scammers, charlatans and fraudsters.

Yes Jimmothy, you can shut the fuck up and go fuck off, no point in you joining this thread now.


 














"No, you show me your tits."

[jimmothy]

Josh Garza attending, not speaking at NABC in Miami

http://de.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2sn616/josh_garza_attending_not_speaking_at_nabc_in_miami/

The usual FUD and trolling...

Check out this FUD and trolling: http://forum.gethashing.com/t/xpy-paycoin-discussion/90/

Oh wait those aren't trolls, they are hashtalks "most reputable users".

So for those people who aren't interested in reading a whole discussion which includes a few supposed 'names' and plenty of 'no names', what's the point you're trying to make?

Just be clear, don't link or quote the world, there's people here who're trying to make there own mind up on the issue raised in the title of this thread. You're pretty articulate when you want to be Jim, don't make the world zone out and miss the import of your meaning by linking to crappolla, just say what you want to say directly, we'll understand.

See here: https://hashtalk.org/users/sort-reputation

The point is that almost all of GAW's most vocal supporters are now detractors.

Just by way of observation, this quotation from your supposed 'trust' rating:

"Slark 0: -0 / +0(0)   2014-12-05   0.00000000   Reference   This user is a serial shill. Caught using 4 accounts to promote GAW while taking advantage of their signature campaign.

Known shill accounts:

Slark
Hazir
maku
Snorek"


You know damn well I wouldn't trust you as far as I could throw you, you shilled for months on how good Black Arrow were and there's now about 400 pages of discrediting information on BA on this forum, even the Bitcointalk forum owner Theymos resurrected deleted information on BA due to their unconscionable scamming practices:

I wasn't a shill, I was just an idiot which I'm willing to admit. Everyone has their "the fudsters were right" moment.

This guy on the other hand made 4 accounts to promote GAW. The proof is in the blockchain.

[bitgeek]

Josh Garza attending, not speaking at NABC in Miami

http://de.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2sn616/josh_garza_attending_not_speaking_at_nabc_in_miami/

The usual FUD and trolling...

Check out this FUD and trolling: http://forum.gethashing.com/t/xpy-paycoin-discussion/90/

Oh wait those aren't trolls, they are hashtalks "most reputable users".

So for those people who aren't interested in reading a whole discussion which includes a few supposed 'names' and plenty of 'no names', what's the point you're trying to make?

Just be clear, don't link or quote the world, there's people here who're trying to make there own mind up on the issue raised in the title of this thread. You're pretty articulate when you want to be Jim, don't make the world zone out and miss the import of your meaning by linking to crappolla, just say what you want to say directly, we'll understand.

See here: https://hashtalk.org/users/sort-reputation

The point is that almost all of GAW's most vocal supporters are now detractors.

Just by way of observation, this quotation from your supposed 'trust' rating:

"Slark 0: -0 / +0(0)   2014-12-05   0.00000000   Reference   This user is a serial shill. Caught using 4 accounts to promote GAW while taking advantage of their signature campaign.

Known shill accounts:

Slark
Hazir
maku
Snorek"


You know damn well I wouldn't trust you as far as I could throw you, you shilled for months on how good Black Arrow were and there's now about 400 pages of discrediting information on BA on this forum, even the Bitcointalk forum owner Theymos resurrected deleted information on BA due to their unconscionable scamming practices:

I wasn't a shill, I was just an idiot which I'm willing to admit. Everyone has their "the fudsters were right" moment.

This guy on the other hand made 4 accounts to promote GAW. The proof is in the blockchain.

Good point OleOle, you are 100% right, but don't expect much from Jimmothy. To him those year old accounts that were registered before GAW appeared on the forums were made to promote GAW.
You should tell that to people with gaw sigs, there's a lot of them here...
I wonder why nobody mentions memcid and his other socks: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=113985 (just one example).

Funny how you quickly changed the topic when I pointed out that the news about Garza not speaking is FUD.

[LiteCoinGuy]

He's going to need bodyguards from those bodyguards once they realize the $20/hr they are getting will actually be $3

[teek]

did this guy end up speaking at btc miami?

[LiteCoinGuy]

https://twitter.com/coindesk/status/556845360694321152

no.

no time for that. he has to make payscam huuuugeee 

[clownius]

Funny how you quickly changed the topic when I pointed out that the news about Garza not speaking is FUD.

Looks confirmed at this point to me

No speech
No Q&A
No meet and greet
No mining panel.

All Josh's choice.

The last minute no show for the mining panel was just pure class.

Im sure you have more excuses for him though

[bitgeek]

Funny how you quickly changed the topic when I pointed out that the news about Garza not speaking is FUD.

Looks confirmed at this point to me

No speech
No Q&A
No meet and greet
No mining panel.

All Josh's choice.

The last minute no show for the mining panel was just pure class.

Im sure you have more excuses for him though

No, the facts speak for themselves. He said he will attend and cinfirmed the Q&A on hashtalk two days ago, so the above info was FUD at the time.
The only person who can explain it now is Garza himself.

[sgk]

did this guy end up speaking at btc miami?

I'm glad he didn't.

No known scammers should be the face of Crypto community.

[darkangel11]

did this guy end up speaking at btc miami?

I'm glad he didn't.

No known scammers should be the face of Crypto community.

Who did he scam?
At least he had the guts to show.

[clownius]

did this guy end up speaking at btc miami?

I'm glad he didn't.

No known scammers should be the face of Crypto community.

Who did he scam?
At least he had the guts to show.

Show where?  For a photo op in front of his sponsorship sign?  With two very very big bodyguards in tow to keep anyone away from him who may have questions.

He dont show to any of his speaking spots, the meet and great or Q&A

[darkangel11]

did this guy end up speaking at btc miami?

I'm glad he didn't.

No known scammers should be the face of Crypto community.

Who did he scam?
At least he had the guts to show.

Show where?  For a photo op in front of his sponsorship sign?  With two very very big bodyguards in tow to keep anyone away from him who may have questions.

He dont show to any of his speaking spots, the meet and great or Q&A

That photo posted here? It's almost impossible to recognize the faces, my old phone could make a better one. The photos I saw were on his twitter, one was with that guy from Genesis Mining.

[LiteCoinGuy]

SEC Investigation of GAW Miners Underway

https://coinfire.cf/2015/01/19/sec-investigation-of-gaw-miners-underway/

[mayax]

SEC Investigation of GAW Miners Underway

https://coinfire.cf/2015/01/19/sec-investigation-of-gaw-miners-underway/

I said a while ago that all these so called business men from the Bitcoin industry are only a bunch of retards who wants to make money overnight by breaking all the laws(including the exchangers).

How can you run a such business from USA? You must be VERY, VERY stupid. It's clearly a unlicensed sale of securities or ponzi. Both of them will bring Garza to jail.

[Paul Revere]

SEC Investigation of GAW Miners Underway

https://coinfire.cf/2015/01/19/sec-investigation-of-gaw-miners-underway/

I said a while ago that all these so called business mens from the Bitcoin industry are only a bunch of retards so wants to make money overnight by breaking all the laws(including the exchangers).

How can you run a such business from USA? You must be VERY, VERY stupid. It's clearly a unlicensed sale of securities or ponzi. Both of them will bring Garza to jail.

Brilliant insight. However, I must point out one flaw in your logic. My beloved United States of America is now completely run by stinking criminals at every level of government. That fact, along with rampant incompetence, might be enough to let these scammers walk.

[LiteCoinGuy]

PayBase Operating Illegally without MSB Licenses

https://coinfire.cf/2015/01/21/paybase-operating-illegally-without-msb-licenses/

[Paul Revere]

PayBase Operating Illegally without MSB Licenses

https://coinfire.cf/2015/01/21/paybase-operating-illegally-without-msb-licenses/

No problem. Honest Homero has come up with a solution to bypass that nasty "money" stuff altogether. Just take any valuables you may have and toss them in the car and head on down to Honest Homeros PayPawn and get instant BTC, with which you can then buy XPY.  Then you can shop at Walmart Amazon PexPeppers with XPY! Problem solved. What an Industry Innovator, eh?

[LiteCoinGuy]

Amazon confirmed!

[NeonTranceBadger]

Amazon confirmed!

Gotta link?  Didn't see it on his twitter and that seems like something he would blabbering his mouth off about.

[LiteCoinGuy]

Coinfire Site Down Due To Stolen Domain, PayCoin Supporters Suspected

Coinfire one of the leading Bitcoin news sites has apparently fallen prey to PayCoin hackers after its last article brought on one of the sites biggest DDOS attacks. Initially the PayCoin article provoked some backlash from PayCoin supporters and even Josh Garza.

http://www.btcfeed.net/news/coinfire-site-down-due-to-stolen-domain-paycoin-supporters-suspected/

[LiteCoinGuy]

[LiteCoinGuy]

[LiteCoinGuy]

the joke-list:

[coinmaster222]

Cant wait till later today to see what excuse he has this time

[Rampion]

Ridiculously obvious scam.

[saafon]

Homero all discuss and no one discusses the very coin - it turns the whole coin is trust in one person? in this case, probably nothing to discuss - those who invested their money they lost

[LiteCoinGuy]

GAW Miners Attorneys Confirm SEC Investigation

On January 19th, Coin Fire exclusively brought you information regarding a Securities and Exchange Commission investigation against GAW Miners and Josh Garza. The documents provided solely to Coin Fire from vetted and confirmed Commission employees detailed an on-going and active investigation against the company, several investors, affiliates, and Mr. Garza.

http://coinfire.io/2015/02/04/gaw-miners-attorneys-confirm-sec-investigation/

[bitcoingrw]

any one can tell me that gawminer is trusted or not i want to buy s4 antminer from gawminer...can i buy without any problem..thankyou

[bitcoingrw]

any one can tell me that gawminer is trusted or not i want to buy s4 antminer from gawminer...can i buy without any problem..thankyou

They used to be a trusted reseller and people who bought physical hardware there in Spring/Summer 2014 received it. Their latest altcoin project XPY is slowly failing, so they are probably selling the hardware to stay in business. I don't think their miner sale is a scam, but it's been 4 months since I last dealt with them.

ok thank your bor for helpful info...God Bless you

[inBitweTrust]

any one can tell me that gawminer is trusted or not i want to buy s4 antminer from gawminer...can i buy without any problem..thankyou

It is risky , so if you do decide to purchase one use a credit card and get ready for a chargeback.
Many of the employees have left and you may be screwed just because of incompetence alone without any intention of theft.
Immediately test the s4 as well so you can return it if allowed and research into their return policy because you may get a DOA.

[OleOle]

any one can tell me that gawminer is trusted or not i want to buy s4 antminer from gawminer...can i buy without any problem..thankyou

It is risky , so if you do decide to purchase one use a credit card and get ready for a chargeback.
Many of the employees have left and you may be screwed just because of incompetence alone without any intention of theft.
Immediately test the s4 as well so you can return it if allowed and research into their return policy because you may get a DOA.

I think what is really being said there is, 'Buy it from anywhere else if you can, otherwise prepare for the worst as there's a very high chance of you being ripped.'

 

[clownius]

any one can tell me that gawminer is trusted or not i want to buy s4 antminer from gawminer...can i buy without any problem..thankyou

It is risky , so if you do decide to purchase one use a credit card and get ready for a chargeback.
Many of the employees have left and you may be screwed just because of incompetence alone without any intention of theft.
Immediately test the s4 as well so you can return it if allowed and research into their return policy because you may get a DOA.

I think what is really being said there is, 'Buy it from anywhere else if you can, otherwise prepare for the worst as there's a very high chance of you being ripped.'

 

Its not that bad but reports suggest that corrupted firmware amongst other issues may be possible.

It appears they are quite literally pulling them out of their DC and boxing them up.  Whoever is doing it may have zero tech skills as signs suggest the shut down isnt always clean.

Maybe they didn't pay their DC and someone just pulled their power supply.  So now they just have a stack of miners to sell.  That i wouldnt put past them either.

So yeah i suggest you be ready for the fact their may be issues with these used miner.

[coinmaster222]

Be like me only buy from Gaw or any miner using CC then your safe

[LiteCoinGuy]

GAW Miners’ Scheme is Finally Revealed

GAW Miners, GAW Labs, related companies, and Josh Garza are a recurring theme here.  The company, GAW Miners, started as a hardware reseller, focused on Scrypt mining, but eventually expanding to SHA256 and Bitcoin. After that, the company seemed to go off the tracks when it launched it’s cloud-mining “Hashlet”. Since that time, we have been watching a slow-motion train wreck that has destroyed the wealth of a large portion of its investors.  A few weeks ago I wrote an article about the SEC inquiry into GAW and Josh Garza, that was launched to investigate the companies, as well as a lot of other information that had been uncovered by the community or leaked by insiders.

http://coinbrief.net/gaw-miners-fraud/

[LiteCoinGuy]

Leaked Emails Detail Inner Workings Of Josh Garza's Scams

Alleged emails which detail the inner workings and day to day operations of Homero Joshua Garza's fraud outfit known as GAW Miners have been leaked. The damning emails not only confirm long held suspicions about Garza's operations but also bring to light other debacles GAW Miners finds itself involved in. The emails confirm:

    -Garza deliberately mislead customers as to the viability of Paycoin.
    -Confirmation that the SEC is investigating GAW Miners, Paycoin, Paybase and other scams operated by Garza.
    -It was made advisable to GAW Miners by DHM Legal Services to shut down hashtalk.org until the SEC inquiry was resolved.
    -Paybase and Zencloud databases were compromised and thefts from those services occurred.
    -Through a close friendship with David Parker AKA Jonas Borchgrevink of CryptoCoinsNews, Garza is able to influence editorial content to his benefit.

http://qntra.net/2015/03/leaked-emails-detail-inner-workings-of-josh-garzas-scams/

[LiteCoinGuy]

GAW Miners Catches SEC, FTC, IRS, DHS Attention

The story of Homero Joshua Garza, GAW Miners, and PayBase is one of the most convoluted, complicated, and lengthy stories in the cryptocurrency world.

This is a story with potential legal ramifications across the industry, a long list of customers who feel they’ve been wronged, a long list of companies denying partnerships, thousands of pages of government documents across several agencies, and corruption with news outlets that, at times, almost seems unbelievable.

http://coinfire.io/2015/03/06/coin-fire-gaw-miners-catches-sec-ftc-irs-dhs-attention/

[coinmaster222]

Also stolen emails,changed emails,physical threats,distorted letters,coinfire buying xpy on the dump after there stories,distortions and lies.With this much money involved at some stage the FBI will enter the fray and people on here could face serious charges

[coinmaster222]

Coinfire Site Down Due To Stolen Domain, PayCoin Supporters Suspected

Coinfire one of the leading Bitcoin news sites has apparently fallen prey to PayCoin hackers after its last article brought on one of the sites biggest DDOS attacks. Initially the PayCoin article provoked some backlash from PayCoin supporters and even Josh Garza.

http://www.btcfeed.net/news/coinfire-site-down-due-to-stolen-domain-paycoin-supporters-suspected/

one of the leaders,give me a break for god sake

[LiteCoinGuy]

Former GAW Manager: $8 Million ZenMiner Investment ‘A Total Lie’

A former employee of GAW Miners is claiming that the company's previously announced $8m investment in the cloud mining firm ZenMiner never took place.

In a new post on the GetHashing forum, former ZenMiner chief Eric Capuano set forth the allegation, the latest in a string of controversies affecting the mining firm. Capuano is among a number of individuals to depart the company earlier this year.

http://www.coindesk.com/gaw-8-million-zenminer-investment-lie/

[mayax]

Former GAW Manager: $8 Million ZenMiner Investment ‘A Total Lie’

A former employee of GAW Miners is claiming that the company's previously announced $8m investment in the cloud mining firm ZenMiner never took place.

In a new post on the GetHashing forum, former ZenMiner chief Eric Capuano set forth the allegation, the latest in a string of controversies affecting the mining firm. Capuano is among a number of individuals to depart the company earlier this year.

http://www.coindesk.com/gaw-8-million-zenminer-investment-lie/

same thing is happening with almost all these kind of announcement from BTC industry.

[funtotry]

Is gawminers.com in any relation with zenminer? I had some cloud mining there.
Just checked it and it says cloud mining disabled. hmmm, looks like I have been scammed by them.

[moosehacker]

You have been robbed by Homo Ganza

[LiteCoinGuy]

MasterCard Denies PayCoin Partnership

On February 25th, 2015 Mr. Garza posted on the Hashtalk forums a screenshot of an email that he purports is the start of a partnership with MasterCard.

http://coinfire.io/2015/02/25/mastercard-denies-paycoin-partnership/

[OleOle]

MasterCard Denies PayCoin Partnership

On February 25th, 2015 Mr. Garza posted on the Hashtalk forums a screenshot of an email that he purports is the start of a partnership with MasterCard.

http://coinfire.io/2015/02/25/mastercard-denies-paycoin-partnership/

Yes, we speculated that it was completely unlikely that Mastercard would have any relationship with small fry when they are payment masters of the universe. If they want something done in that space they'll do it themselves not risk any brand damage or delegate any control to two-bit operators.



 

[Rum152]

Miaviator - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=57116

is/was General Manager of GAW:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/gaw-miners-appoints-jonah-dorman-150000905.html
https://mobile.twitter.com/miaviator

And this guy has positive trust on this forum? How is this possible?

Also there is some shady post deleting happening in thread of his LeaseRig service:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=544732

[coinmaster222]

Leaserig was funded by Gaw

[LiteCoinGuy]

"PSA - Known scammer Josh Garza of GAWMiners just launched a new Bitcoin exchange called Mineral as his latest scam. Keep away if you don't want your BTC stolen. called Mineral as his latest scam. Not a late April Fool's Joke. Keep away if you don't want your BTC stolen."

http://de.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/316g8r/psa_known_scammer_josh_garza_of_gawminers_just/

https://i.imgur.com/qXpeDgq.jpg

https://hashtalk.org/topic/35570/paybase-vs-mineral


we dont need more victims. please stay away.

[Minerjoe]

The funniest thing s he says he s being trolled and criticized by people. I really wonder why?

[flyingplows]

I'm still waiting for some vouchers from his latest scam with hashlets as a compensation for failure and he has no shame to start a new scam already..  How low can you go He should care how to escape jail by now, not how to scam more

[LiteCoinGuy]

edit:

However, through our review we wanted to also share to those that don't know - Mineral is using the former Coin-Swap exchange code base - basically, Mineral is a clone of sorts, a re-branding of Coin-Swap to benefit Garza (obviously).

Coin-Swap saw some success as a coin-to-coin exchange, but was recently acquired by Garza, which is now getting turned into Mineral. To further confirm this, we found this post (archived) by Garza where he clearly states that GAW is utelizing Coin-Swap base code to power Mineral.

Given GAW/Garza's past issues, this may end up being another dramatic endeavor for the cryptospace. As an alternative that is an established coin-to-coin only exchange, I would suggest a service like Shapeshift.io.

http://de.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/31902o/just_a_quick_update_on_mineral_garzapaycoin/

[LiteCoinGuy]

PayBase Scam has announced it’s shutting down completely

A couple weeks ago, customers of the digital currency platform PayBase, which provided a platform to trade the cryptocurrency Paycoin, started complaining that they couldn’t get their money out of the site.

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/paybase-shuts-down

[josef2000]

PayBase Scam has announced it’s shutting down completely

A couple weeks ago, customers of the digital currency platform PayBase, which provided a platform to trade the cryptocurrency Paycoin, started complaining that they couldn’t get their money out of the site.

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/paybase-shuts-down

Well now josh has the money. He could easily live with it the whole life. Why still care about the business he has made.
Ahhhhh these shady guys...

[acquafredda]

"PSA - Known scammer Josh Garza of GAWMiners just launched a new Bitcoin exchange called Mineral as his latest scam. Keep away if you don't want your BTC stolen. called Mineral as his latest scam. Not a late April Fool's Joke. Keep away if you don't want your BTC stolen."

http://de.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/316g8r/psa_known_scammer_josh_garza_of_gawminers_just/

https://i.imgur.com/qXpeDgq.jpg

https://hashtalk.org/topic/35570/paybase-vs-mineral


we dont need more victims. please stay away.

Thank you very much man!

[RonPaulBTC]

well.. at least these kids will enjoy the ferraris.

[Rmcdermott927]

Do we really expect anything more from Garza at this point.   Even before paycoin, there were numerous scam red flags.    Paycoin is just the straw that broke the camels back.

[flyingplows]

Any real news about incoming compensation plan for hashlets this Friday?

[MacDuro]

Any real news about incoming compensation plan for hashlets this Friday?

No , but Garza finally found a way to run from XPY and blame others for his failure .

https://hashtalk.org/topic/36012/http-paycoinfoundation-org-2015-04-09-declaration-of-paycoins-independence/29

@MrCEO said:
> Its unfortunate this was handled this way......I am sory to say, but it is likely this will be the end of paycoin.

[Xian01]

http://ia601506.us.archive.org/27/items/gov.uscourts.mssd.88839/gov.uscourts.mssd.88839.docket.html

[jimmothy]

http://ia601506.us.archive.org/27/items/gov.uscourts.mssd.88839/gov.uscourts.mssd.88839.docket.html

Nice find.

[MacDuro]

http://ia601506.us.archive.org/27/items/gov.uscourts.mssd.88839/gov.uscourts.mssd.88839.docket.html

Nice find.

That's the real reason why Zencloud stopped his mining operation ... not the low BTC value , market conditions or high electricity price . Zen cloud stopped because GAW did not pay the electricity . Again it seems that GAW was not saying all to his customers .

[LiteCoinGuy]

Power Company Suing GAW Miners for $350,000

According to a court document from the Southern District of Mississippi Court System, Mississippi Power Company (MPC) is suing GAW Miners for upwards of $350,000 for failure to make payment for services provided.

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/19949/mississippi-power-company-suing-gaw-miners-350000/


Gawsome!   

[flyingplows]

Power Company Suing GAW Miners for $350,000

According to a court document from the Southern District of Mississippi Court System, Mississippi Power Company (MPC) is suing GAW Miners for upwards of $350,000 for failure to make payment for services provided.

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/19949/mississippi-power-company-suing-gaw-miners-350000/


Gawsome!  

Oh, this is why these scammers shut down zencloud and stopped mining while it was still profitable.. Just wondering what excuses they will come with as to why not giving us the vouchers they promised for their failed hashlets

[lissandra]

Damn $350,000 is absurd.

I hope they win their court case regarding on their services. Screwing a power company though? wtf are you thinking lol.

[flyingplows]

Damn $350,000 is absurd.

I hope they win their court case regarding on their services. Screwing a power company though? wtf are you thinking lol.

They don't give a shit - they just scam anyone anybody any company that gets in their way. That's how they do business
Scammed their customers, electricity company, lol, what they are gonna scam next - the company they rented land for their mining farm (if there even was any mining at all), their own employees, they could even scam the court you know Cause it's all they do

[waterpile]

Karma hit them really fast. Good job GAW and justice will be served to you soon

[malzahar]

I agree, this is karam coming back hitting 10x hard for all those crazy mining fees.

Theres no way that the power company will lose, its like scewing with a government.

[LiteCoinGuy]

Garza & Friends: Additional Emails Detailed

A cache of hundreds of thousands of emails leaked from the office of GAW Miners totalling 5.1 GB in size spanning the time period May 2014 through January 2015 detail the lengths Homero Joshua Garza has gone to in order to maintain his fraudulent business activities.

While Qntra has previously published articles specific to Garza himself, this article will focus on the people in the periphery, their communications with Garza and their eagerness to conduct business with him unwittingly or perhaps even choosing to ignore the obvious red flags in order to turn a nice dollar.

http://qntra.net/2015/04/garza-friends-additional-emails-detailed/

[Gleb Gamow]

https://blockchain.info/tx/cd737b129a57abe2c38fa4f7eab6e67ebb59b33f56ea7b8550af4b77c1aff719

I'm gettin' tired of huntin' other people's moneys!  

[crazyivan]

Garza & Friends: Additional Emails Detailed

A cache of hundreds of thousands of emails leaked from the office of GAW Miners totalling 5.1 GB in size spanning the time period May 2014 through January 2015 detail the lengths Homero Joshua Garza has gone to in order to maintain his fraudulent business activities.

While Qntra has previously published articles specific to Garza himself, this article will focus on the people in the periphery, their communications with Garza and their eagerness to conduct business with him unwittingly or perhaps even choosing to ignore the obvious red flags in order to turn a nice dollar.

http://qntra.net/2015/04/garza-friends-additional-emails-detailed/

Still waiting on some solid info about authorities doing something. Cannot believe nobody does anything on this issue.

[flyingplows]

And I thought everybody was doing everything about the issue. Investigations from SEC and others ongoing, friends and colleagues turning away from Homero because not wanting to go to jail with him etc... All there services lockout out and defunct, all development stopping, even paycoin is undergoing anti Homero changes   There is a big investigation and he will go to jail sooner or later, it's just, you know, hard grindstone turns slowly...

[LiteCoinGuy]

Interview: Former GAW Miners Employee Speaks Up

GAW Miners is a company that started out as a reputable and respected company in the bitcoin field, selling mining devices. They shipped quickly and prices were very reasonable, but it somehow resulted in a collapsed scam, with its CEO, Josh Garza, trying to cover up everything.

GAW Miners ran their own forum, HashTalk, where the company and other subjects were discussed. However, as GAW Miners slowly transitioned from a legit hardware seller to a cloud mining ponzi, many tactics were put in place to cover up the scheme.

http://www.coinbuzz.com/2015/04/22/exclusive-interview-former-gaw-miners-employee-speaks-up/

[LiteCoinGuy]

Cryptsy Owns ‘Hyper Staking’ Paycoin Prime Controller

During a community hangout organized by the Paycoin Foundation, a surprise announcement was made that one Prime Controller is being held by digital currency exchange Cryptsy. The transaction was also posted about on the Paycointalk forums. According to that post, it seems plausible that the Prime Controller was given to get Cryptsy to update to the new Paycoin wallet.

http://www.miningpool.co.uk/breaking-cryptsy-owns-hyper-staking-paycoin-prime-controller/

[LiteCoinGuy]

A shadowy new "organization" calling itself Crypto Private Investor Group just announced its forming. This is a Josh Garza/GAW/Paycoin aligned group; although it purports to "greater worldwide adoption of cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin". I wouldn't trust anything coming from this group.

Some of the more concerning quotes:

    -'Members of the CPIG stand with GAW founder, Josh Garza"

    -"greater worldwide adoption of cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin, Paycoin and other... - as if the worthless shitcoin that is paycoin deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as bitcoin, let alone any other non-scam altcoin."

    -"To undo the negative impact, outcome and perception from circumstances like Mt. Gox and those that seek to undermine the category’s success through the use of highly sensationalized media covering the category based upon conjecture versus fact." >> these idiots obviously have been brainwashed by Josh Garza to believe that they were not, in fact, scammed, but that rather they were the victims of "sensationalized media" and "conjecture".

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/347iia/psa_a_shadowy_new_organization_calling_itself/

[flyingplows]

A shadowy new "organization" calling itself Crypto Private Investor Group just announced its forming. This is a Josh Garza/GAW/Paycoin aligned group; although it purports to "greater worldwide adoption of cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin". I wouldn't trust anything coming from this group.

Some of the more concerning quotes:

    -'Members of the CPIG stand with GAW founder, Josh Garza"

    -"greater worldwide adoption of cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin, Paycoin and other... - as if the worthless shitcoin that is paycoin deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as bitcoin, let alone any other non-scam altcoin."

    -"To undo the negative impact, outcome and perception from circumstances like Mt. Gox and those that seek to undermine the category’s success through the use of highly sensationalized media covering the category based upon conjecture versus fact." >> these idiots obviously have been brainwashed by Josh Garza to believe that they were not, in fact, scammed, but that rather they were the victims of "sensationalized media" and "conjecture".

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/347iia/psa_a_shadowy_new_organization_calling_itself/

Nobody cares bout em I just hoard my PayCONs PayCoin is soon^tm to be overwhelmed by one mysterious alt (clues in this post) so their efforts r futile

[co5hike]

I think everyone now knows to stay away from gaw.. Im staying away from anything that has gaw in the name. Anyone think Josh will see the inside of a prison cell?

[flyingplows]

I think everyone now knows to stay away from gaw.. Im staying away from anything that has gaw in the name. Anyone think Josh will see the inside of a prison cell?

It's not that I think. I'm sure of it. It's just the question of time. These things take long, but he will end up there eventually. He deserves this in the end...

[LiteCoinGuy]

PSA: Avoid Josh Garza's latest scam - crypto *credit*/debit card that can be preloaded with bitcoin and comes with a convenient $100 annual fee

http://de.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/36druc/psa_avoid_josh_garzas_latest_scam_crypto/

[LiteCoinGuy]

GAW Miners Absent in Ongoing Mississippi Court Case

http://www.coindesk.com/gaw-miners-absent-court-case/


Paycoin soon on Amazon...  

[Paul Revere]

PSA: Avoid Josh Garza's latest scam - crypto *credit*/debit card that can be preloaded with bitcoin and comes with a convenient $100 annual fee

http://de.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/36druc/psa_avoid_josh_garzas_latest_scam_crypto/

So, I take Credit Card A and pay a $100 fee to get Credit Card B. Then I take Credit Card A again and purchase $100 worth of BTC somewhere and I put that on Credit Card B and I can spend that (minus purchase and other fees) just like using Credit Card A that I used to purchase Credit Card B and the BTC. Amazingly brilliant. The Industry Innovator strikes again!