███ Stay away from GAWminers.com / Paycoin / Paybase - Mineral - SCAM ! ███

[Kisokos]

Top 7 reasons Paycoin will fail soon or within a year.

Excuse me?

Within a year? Are we suddenly looking for the coin that replaces btc? or ltc? Because you will only ever trade the coin that does that? wtf?
Ok, I'll bite.

1) Centralized

Boohooo. At least we have an entity with serious money behind the coin. There's no reason why the community couldn't take over with a few modifications if it becomes real successful and GAW id out of the picture for some reason.

2) Difficult to catchup to Bitcoins network effect and first mover advantage

Hah! there you go! Gotcha! You ARE looking for the thing to replace Bitcoin.
Well, They are aiming to get XPY accepted wherever BTC is - they have (claim to have) GoCoin and whatever the other one was. (sorry brainfart)
if it's true, this is already huge - it's a hell of a lot of retailers. Will find out soon enough.

3) Lack of technical innovation , mostly marketing fluff
The innovation here is the control of supply. That's huge. Huger than huge. Also there's the setting of minimum price, but that's been around a while.
Marketing fluff is how you get new fiat into crypto. I think I can safely assume that we agree on this being a good thing.

4) The coin is backed by greedy and dishonest owners and clients many of whom lack technical ability and are simply in it for the money

Again boohooo. Yeah, I know, it's like.... like.... any other for-profit (and some on-paper non-profit) company in existence, ever. Wow, stay away from that shit!

Just to be a grammar nazi here: having clients with lacking technical abilities is kind of the main point of making any crypto "real mainstream" - even btc couldn't succeed in this regard,
and now that I think about it, I actually see some chance that PayCoin could. Lot of ifs of course.

5) Long term high inflation will lose out to long term deflationary currencies . We have plenty of fiat for you inflationary needs.

Not sure I follow, please elaborate, but consider this:
- Inflation, when controlled, is a Good Thing. That's exactly what PayCoin proposes to do, and no other crypto has done before.
- The argument can not be that "use fiat", come on now. We are in crypto here. Or are we vetting PayCoin to replace every fiat ever? And If it can't it's a shitcoin & scam? I really don't think that's a valid argument.

6)
Paysave is based upon a plugin which breaks merchants TOS. These merchants will either disable the plugin like amazon or sue

Again, what? Did amazon already have this plugin and disable it? It's supposed to come out this week. Where's your info coming from?

7) Legal concerns over statements and ICO launch. There is already a mountain of evidence that GAW and josh have lied and misled their clients. All it takes is one disgruntled client, a lawyer , and they have a trove of evidence to sue GAW/paycoin with. Expect heavy legal pressure in the future. This is one of the severe weaknesses with paycoin that Bitcoin is immune from. There is no centralized Bitcoin company to sue or place legal pressure upon. There is no Bitcoin CEO.

Ah, there you go, now it's fully confirmed that we are vetting PayCoin to replace Bitcoln. Lol OK.
So: See point one. If successful (will turn out in a few weeks time) community can / will take over. I've seen it happen with coins of much much smaller popularity.

[inBitweTrust]

The innovation here is the control of supply. That's huge. Huger than huge.

No, as a capitalist I do not agree with you that its a good thing to control the supply or set a base minimum price. Look at how well price controls and capital flight controls worked in Venezuela as a recent historical example. The fact that this control is being done by a centralized entity is even more concerning and the fact that the 100 million set aside to create this support in investor capital is likely a lie is still another concern.

Just to be a grammar nazi here: having clients with lacking technical abilities is kind of the main point of making any crypto "real mainstream"

The clients I am referring to are the founders, investors and stakers not the average guy who wants to buy something.

Or are we vetting PayCoin to replace every fiat ever? And If it can't it's a shitcoin & scam? I really don't think that's a valid argument.

You are getting ahead of yourself.  Paycoin is competing with other cryptos, not so much fiat at the moment. Some of those cryptos are inflationary and some deflationary. I would posit that any inflationary coins need to have some serious innovation behind(I.E. Ethereum) it and not simply be a rebranded peercoin fork.. Our economics probably differ as you sound like a believer in keynesianism over other models so we will likely disagree on inflation in general.

Again, what? Did amazon already have this plugin and disable it? It's supposed to come out this week. Where's your info coming from?

This has been discussed heavily already. Do some research into coinfire and the original company legal issues which GAW purchased and renamed to paysave.
ZincSave (which breaks amazon's TOS)

[Kisokos]

The evidence has been discussed for some time here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=900970.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857670.0

Duh, long. I'll get back when I read it.

- Highly inflationary: No. Assuming the release today fixes the price at or above US$20. Not long to wait now. And No, see second part of price support.

Do the math with the hastakers and prime controllers. There is at least 500k of inflation daily. This isn't going to be realized initially because of the unprecedented way in which the stake is locked up by the central issuer and cannot be liquidated. This will eventually place heavy downward pressure upon price. To be fair Bitcoin is also heavily inflationary at around 1.1 million daily but the difference is Bitcoin has the advantage of the network effect and much larger userbase and shortly this inflation will drop from around 10% to 0.5% unlike with paycoin. The 20 base support may eventually be realized or not but will not be sustained because of this long term inflation regardless if you believe in the lie that there is 100 million in investor capital willing to support the coin at 20USD.

Ok, I'll take a look at the math. But surely, you can't seriously mean that in your calculations there are 1.1 million bitcoins generated daily? or 500k xpy?  

- Staking at a higher rate is questionable, yes. Could be part ponzi, but more likely covered by their other income. Could be that they do have hashing power that generates income.
Remember, if they actually make profit (which I'm sure they do), and share part of this profit with the people who help securing the supply of their coin.... it's actually a dividend payout -> not a ponzi.

There will be plenty of people profiting both GAW and original investors. There will be many people who eventually lose everything as well just like with most ponzi's

No, what I meant is if the company makes profit and pays out, constantly, and sustainably, it's not a ponzi. By definition. Period.
Do companies fail occasionally? yes.
Are they a ponzi because they failed? No.
Are they a scam? No. (unless of course it's an intentional bankruptcy)

[inBitweTrust]

Ok, I'll take a look at the math. But surely, you can't seriously mean that in your calculations there are 1.1 million bitcoins generated daily? or 500k xpy?

According to Josh's own statement there will be 500k in usd inflation daily for XPY , this is compared to 1.1 million usd in inflation daily for Bitcoin.

Bitcoin will have 6 % inflation in 2016, 5% inflation in 2017, 3% inflation in 2019, and 0.5% inflation in 2026. Paycoin will have at least 5% for the foreseeable future if not higher.

No, what I meant is if the company makes profit and pays out, constantly, and sustainably, it's not a ponzi. By definition. Period.

I understand the differences and yes, I still believe GAW and paycoin to be a likely ponzi.

There is good reason to suspect this is a ponzi by the evidence that has been repeatedly discussed throughout these threads. I am not going to keep repeating them. Do your due diligence and research for yourself.

[Kisokos]

The innovation here is the control of supply. That's huge. Huger than huge.

No, as a capitalist I do not agree with you that its a good thing to control the supply or set a base minimum price. Look at how well price controls and capital flight controls worked in Venezuela as a recent historical example. The fact that this control is being done by a centralized entity is even more concerning and the fact that the 100 million set aside to create this support in investor capital is likely a lie is still another concern.

I have to disagree. Controlling the supply by a centralized entity is how every fiat currency works, ever. Singling out an example when it failed does not invalidate the fact that the same thing is going on with USD, GBP, CHF, well, as I said, every fiat.
Setting a base price is somewhat unique to crypto - unless of course we think about examples like tieing USD to gold, or the current example of Bulgarian lev to EUR.

Just to be a grammar nazi here: having clients with lacking technical abilities is kind of the main point of making any crypto "real mainstream"

The clients I am referring to are the founders, investors and stakers not the average guy who wants to buy something.

Oh, OK. I thought it was just a grammar thing, and mis-ordering of words....
In that case I have to disagree again. "Founders"(=initial investors), normal investors, stakers, average joe, they are ALL in the same category to me.
They introduce fiat into the system - for different reasons of course, but it does not matter in this argument, as we were assessing the importance
of their technical ability. Which is zero. It's like BMW. Do you need to know how the latest BMW security systems, engine, transmission, etc works to buy a car? to buy shares in the company itself?

Or are we vetting PayCoin to replace every fiat ever? And If it can't it's a shitcoin & scam? I really don't think that's a valid argument.

You are getting ahead of yourself.  Paycoin is competing with other cryptos, not so much fiat at the moment. Some of those cryptos are inflationary and some deflationary. I would posit that any inflationary coins need to have some serious innovation behind(I.E. Ethereum) it and not simply be a rebranded peercoin fork.. Our economics probably differ as you sound like a believer in keynesianism over other models so we will likely disagree on inflation in general.

Nah man, you were the one suggesting to use fiat if I want an inflatory medium this was just a response to that, and it seems to have worked

Hmmmm, Innovation.
I've heard this a lot of times, from a lot of folks - coins with innovation will survive, coins without it will die horribly. Then I look at Doge.
Then I concluded that in my opinion, coins with active communities will survive. If the reason for this is technical innovation, good, could work. Or not. If the reason is much wow, then that is the reason.

Hmm, I wouldn't classify myself as a believer, however the keynesian view of public sector intervention (only when necessary) is somehow feels natural to me. Maybe I'm too old (grew up in that era)

Again, what? Did amazon already have this plugin and disable it? It's supposed to come out this week. Where's your info coming from?

This has been discussed heavily already. Do some research into coinfire and the original company legal issues which GAW purchased and renamed to paysave.

Duh, ok. I just heard half-truths and plain FUD from coinfire, so I stopped reading them & put in the pile of horseshit never to touch category.

[bitpop]

Always the same illiterate foreigners defending Homero

[Kisokos]

Ok, I'll take a look at the math. But surely, you can't seriously mean that in your calculations there are 1.1 million bitcoins generated daily? or 500k xpy?

According to Josh's own statement there will be 500k in usd inflation daily for XPY , this is compared to 1.1 million usd in inflation daily for Bitcoin.

Bitcoin will have 6 % inflation in 2016, 5% inflation in 2017, 3% inflation in 2019, and 0.5% inflation in 2026. Paycoin will have at least 5% for the foreseeable future if not higher.

Now, you see, US$ 500k daily is very different to 500k XPY daily. Same for bitcoin figures. That's what I meant.

No, what I meant is if the company makes profit and pays out, constantly, and sustainably, it's not a ponzi. By definition. Period.

I understand the differences and yes, I still believe GAW and paycoin to be a likely ponzi.

There is good reason to suspect this is a ponzi by the evidence that has been repeatedly discussed throughout these threads. I am not going to keep repeating them. Do your due diligence and research for yourself.

Now you are just pulling my leg.
Everything about GAW & research: OK, sure, fair enough.

XPY is a cryptocurrency. It can be traded. It can be pumped & dumped. It can be taken over by the community. It can live it's own life outside of GAW. Even if it's created by GAW.
But a cryptocurrency can not be a ponzi scheme.   (I'm sorry for the harshness, but am I talking to the wall here, seriously? we discussed this 2 posts back, in lenght)

[inBitweTrust]

Duh, ok. I just heard half-truths and plain FUD from coinfire, so I stopped reading them & put in the pile of horseshit never to touch category.

ZincSave was the company purchased (which breaks amazon's TOS)

There are other sources or you can just read the merchants TOS yourself and figure it out if you cared about the truth.
Or just use some common sense and realize that merchants aren't happy that clients can be directed to their competitor or lose a sale with this plugin.

But a cryptocurrency can not be a ponzi scheme.  

It's not that complicated. A company- GAW, can use a cryptocurrency as a vehicle to orchestrate a ponzi. In this case, continue one being that they likely have a history of fractional reserve mining which is a form of a cryptocurrency ponzi.

[Kisokos]

Always the same illiterate foreigners defending Homero

Sure dude, if you can't argue with logic, try to find something personal! LOL You are pathetic.

Also, you are a foreigner to me, and I'm pretty sure that you can not construct a single sentence in my language. So I'm much cooler than you. bububuuuu

[Paul Revere]

@ Kisokos: If you believe one tiny bit of what you are saying, why are you wasting time posting here? If you believe in GAW's lies you should be busy buying more XPY right now, after all you will be able to sell them for $20 soon, right? Shut your piehole and go BUY some XPY.

[inBitweTrust]

@ Kisokos: If you believe one tiny bit of what you are saying, why are you wasting time posting here? If you believe in GAW's lies you should be busy buying more XPY right now, after all you will be able to sell them for $20 soon, right? Shut your piehole and go BUY some XPY.

To be fair , not all these new accounts are shills, he may be sincere and just confused. But yes, it sure is difficult to tell a shill from a genuine paycoin zaelot and we have a right to be suspicious being the long history of GAW using shills, censoring, and pumping out propaganda.

If I were a betting man I would guess he is the real deal and has been taken in by GAW's propaganda machine.

[Paul Revere]

I agree IBWT. I think this guy is a true believer in GAW. But, this does not matter. IF he actually believes the obvious pack of lies from GAW, then he should be busy buying up as much XPY as he possibly can before the "$20 floor" is put in place.

[Kisokos]

@ Kisokos: If you believe one tiny bit of what you are saying, why are you wasting time posting here? If you believe in GAW's lies you should be busy buying more XPY right now, after all you will be able to sell them for $20 soon, right? Shut your piehole and go BUY some XPY.

Heh, thanks, I did, I did, when it was half of the current price, now I'm only here because I enjoy the argument. (and keeping an eye on the exchange so I can get out in profit whatever happens)
Look back, I wanted to leave, but they kept me here.

[Paul Revere]

@ Kisokos: If you believe one tiny bit of what you are saying, why are you wasting time posting here? If you believe in GAW's lies you should be busy buying more XPY right now, after all you will be able to sell them for $20 soon, right? Shut your piehole and go BUY some XPY.

Heh, thanks, I did, I did, when it was half of the current price, now I'm only here because I enjoy the argument. (and keeping an eye on the exchange so I can get out in profit whatever happens)
Look back, I wanted to leave, but they kept me here.

I would never have guessed that.

[Kisokos]

@ Kisokos: If you believe one tiny bit of what you are saying, why are you wasting time posting here? If you believe in GAW's lies you should be busy buying more XPY right now, after all you will be able to sell them for $20 soon, right? Shut your piehole and go BUY some XPY.

To be fair , not all these new accounts are shills, he may be sincere and just confused. But yes, it sure is difficult to tell a shill from a genuine paycoin zaelot and we have a right to be suspicious being the long history of GAW using shills, censoring, and pumping out propaganda.

If I were a betting man I would guess he is the real deal and has been taken in by GAW's propaganda machine.

Ah, hey hey, I'm here, don't talk about me like I'm not
I'm no shill, and as you can see from some of my posts, I disclosed my involvement it this. Which goes as far as buying low and selling high.
You wanted to go into the direction of PayCoin vs Bitcoin, and I thought why not, it could be a good argument.

[Kisokos]

@ Kisokos: If you believe one tiny bit of what you are saying, why are you wasting time posting here? If you believe in GAW's lies you should be busy buying more XPY right now, after all you will be able to sell them for $20 soon, right? Shut your piehole and go BUY some XPY.

Heh, thanks, I did, I did, when it was half of the current price, now I'm only here because I enjoy the argument. (and keeping an eye on the exchange so I can get out in profit whatever happens)
Look back, I wanted to leave, but they kept me here.

I would never have guessed that.

Yeah man. Guy comes at you with stuff like he did - just look back - of course you stay around and poke his balls with some proper logic

[Paul Revere]

@ Kisokos: If you believe one tiny bit of what you are saying, why are you wasting time posting here? If you believe in GAW's lies you should be busy buying more XPY right now, after all you will be able to sell them for $20 soon, right? Shut your piehole and go BUY some XPY.

Heh, thanks, I did, I did, when it was half of the current price, now I'm only here because I enjoy the argument. (and keeping an eye on the exchange so I can get out in profit whatever happens)
Look back, I wanted to leave, but they kept me here.

I would never have guessed that.

Yeah man. Guy comes at you with stuff like he did - just look back - of course you stay around and poke his balls with some proper logic

Logic is something that you clearly do not have a grasp of, at all. You say you "are only here for the argument", which is total BS. There is no argument here. There are people stating the facts and an asshole completely ignoring them for the express purpose of annoying people for his own twisted amusement. Go shovel some sidewalks or something so you can buy some more XPY....

[Kisokos]

Duh, ok. I just heard half-truths and plain FUD from coinfire, so I stopped reading them & put in the pile of horseshit never to touch category.

ZincSave was the company purchased (which got banned by amazon)

There are other sources or you can just read the merchants TOS yourself and figure it out if you cared about the truth.
Or just use some common sense and realize that merchants aren't happy that clients can be directed to their competitor or lose a sale with this plugin.

Agreed, that whole process looks a bit backwards to me.

But a cryptocurrency can not be a ponzi scheme.  

It's not that complicated. A company- GAW, can use a cryptocurrency as a vehicle to orchestrate a ponzi. In this case, continue one being that they likely have a history of fractional reserve mining which is a form of a cryptocurrency ponzi.
[/quote]

It is in fact very simple. If you trade a crypto currency on an exchange you can not get "ponzied". You can get dumped on, but that's what stop loss is for.

[Paul Revere]

The "Ignore" button is the stop-loss for this forum. Goodbye forever.

[Kisokos]

@ Kisokos: If you believe one tiny bit of what you are saying, why are you wasting time posting here? If you believe in GAW's lies you should be busy buying more XPY right now, after all you will be able to sell them for $20 soon, right? Shut your piehole and go BUY some XPY.

Heh, thanks, I did, I did, when it was half of the current price, now I'm only here because I enjoy the argument. (and keeping an eye on the exchange so I can get out in profit whatever happens)
Look back, I wanted to leave, but they kept me here.

I would never have guessed that.

Yeah man. Guy comes at you with stuff like he did - just look back - of course you stay around and poke his balls with some proper logic

Logic is something that you clearly do not have a grasp of, at all. You say you "are only here for the argument", which is total BS. There is no argument here. There are people stating the facts and an asshole completely ignoring them for the express purpose of annoying people for his own twisted amusement. Go shovel some sidewalks or something so you can buy some more XPY....

Wow, that's a nice argument. Hold on a sec. Who's the shill now? Are you really? Hah I found a shill!
Now I wonder who's it is..... let's see...