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Author Topic: bitZino - Bitcoin Casino - Blackjack, Roulette, 3 Card Poker, Slots and more!  (Read 75469 times)
RicRock
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October 13, 2012, 08:19:33 PM
 #281

Very nice well designed site
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Creating a Bitcoin client that fully implements the network protocol is extremely difficult. Bitcoin-Qt is the only known safe implementation of a full node. Some other projects attempt to compete, but it is not recommended to use such software for anything serious. (Lightweight clients like Electrum and MultiBit are OK.)
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dooglus
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October 14, 2012, 08:01:28 PM
 #282

I'm sorry about that! I have updated the original post so that it is more correct.

I was kind of hoping you'd reimburse my loss, but not really expecting you to.  It's cool though.

You've always been incredibly helpful, Dooglus, so I just went in and added 1 BTC to your account.

Thanks.  I just saw something that has helped me to put my loss into perspective...

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October 16, 2012, 07:37:51 AM
 #283

While attempting to lose the 1 BTC you recently added to my account, I noticed that the roulette wheel shows a "Win: 400" when I win 400, but doesn't show a corresponding "Lose:" message when I lose.  Also, the "Win:" message disappears as soon as I start placing bets for the next spin.

These are both things you recently addressed for the craps game.  Perhaps making roulette behave the same as craps would be good.

I also noticed another inconsistency between the games.  In craps and roulette, my balance goes down before I start the game, but in blackjack it only goes down when I start the game.  It may be that there's no good way of getting the games to 'feel' similar in that respect, since in blackjack we don't place bets on the table before dealing, unlike in craps and roulette, but I thought maybe it's something you hadn't considered, and might have a solution for.

libertaad
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October 16, 2012, 06:28:35 PM
 #284

While attempting to lose the 1 BTC you recently added to my account, I noticed that the roulette wheel shows a "Win: 400" when I win 400, but doesn't show a corresponding "Lose:" message when I lose.  Also, the "Win:" message disappears as soon as I start placing bets for the next spin.

These are both things you recently addressed for the craps game.  Perhaps making roulette behave the same as craps would be good.

Thanks for reminding me about this! We had meant to update Roulette along with Craps when you originally suggested this change, but it got lost in the shuffle of all the changes that were going on at the time. I've went ahead and updated Roulette so it has a more informative status message.

I also noticed another inconsistency between the games.  In craps and roulette, my balance goes down before I start the game, but in blackjack it only goes down when I start the game.  It may be that there's no good way of getting the games to 'feel' similar in that respect, since in blackjack we don't place bets on the table before dealing, unlike in craps and roulette, but I thought maybe it's something you hadn't considered, and might have a solution for.

Hm, I hadn't really considered this. I'm not sure if there is a perfect solution though, because as you mention, the games do have some fundamental differences.

One solution would be in Blackjack to reduce the user's balance as they type different numbers into the Bet box. I don't love this solution though, because it doesn't adhere to what a user would expect in this game. I would hate to reduce the usability of one game just to get consistency between games.

Another solution is in  Craps and Roulette to only reduce the actual balance when the user clicks the bet button. But, likewise, I think this may be confusing to users in these games.

So, I think I'll leave it as-is for now. But, thanks for bringing this up, because it is an angle that we should consider when developing future games.

Thanks again for the feedback, I really appreciate your attention to all the little things! These type of improvements add up to a much better overall experience for our users.

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October 16, 2012, 07:02:13 PM
 #285

the base currency settings need some re-working, which we are definitely doing.

In demonstrating this for a newly registered account, the amount of funds added was 0.1 but then trying to play video poker the buy in screen must have been for bitcoins and thus no amount that I entered was valid as I had less than a 1 BTC balance.   I clicked Lower min bet and once I was in mBTC then it worked as expected.

Perhaps on a new account, the initial deposit should determine which default min bet amount is used? (e.g., if I deposit 0.1 BTC then set the min bet to 1 mBTC)


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October 16, 2012, 07:09:23 PM
 #286

I've had to contact customer support a few times in the past for password rests and have nothing but great things to report.


I'ld like to see two-factor authentication as an option for withdrawals and for changes to the account security (e.g., removing the OTP, or changing the e-mail address tied to the account.)

A plea to exchanges ... lets do 2 factor right!
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=109424.0

I don't think OTP is necessary for login though (or at least that would be a second option for how to secure an account using OTP).  Needing OTP for each login makes it inconvenient, whereas I would rarely withdraw or change the security settings.


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October 16, 2012, 08:07:16 PM
 #287

But, thanks for bringing this up, because it is an angle that we should consider when developing future games.

That was my intention - just to bring it to your attention and see if you had any magic fix for it, and if not, at least have you be aware of the issue.

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October 16, 2012, 10:02:24 PM
 #288

Another little detail that you may want to consider:

When I win at roulette, the winnings count up gradually on my balance.  If, while they're counting up, I place another bet and spin the wheel again, they keep counting up until they're done, and only then is the new bet deducted from the total.  The deduction happens in a single step, rather than counting down gradually.  It looks odd to see the game work 'so hard' to add to my balance, when it can remove chips in the blink of an eye.

I don't know if it needs changing, but maybe it's something to think about.  Would it be better if adding and removing chips from my balance both happened at the same 'speed', whether gradual or instant?

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October 17, 2012, 01:34:24 AM
 #289

the base currency settings need some re-working, which we are definitely doing.

In demonstrating this for a newly registered account, the amount of funds added was 0.1 but then trying to play video poker the buy in screen must have been for bitcoins and thus no amount that I entered was valid as I had less than a 1 BTC balance.   I clicked Lower min bet and once I was in mBTC then it worked as expected.

Perhaps on a new account, the initial deposit should determine which default min bet amount is used? (e.g., if I deposit 0.1 BTC then set the min bet to 1 mBTC)

Good call! We are in the process of re-designing the Buy-In window to be much more user-friendly. One of the changes is that it will allow users to choose the minimum bet at buy-in time, rather than utilizing the account's "base currency" setting. I like your idea of setting the default value here based on the user's balance.

We'll also be including Dooglus's and ErubusBat's suggestions: we're adding a "Max Buy-in" button and we're adding a "Refresh" link so that users will have an actionable link to click after sending funds to their account.

I'ld like to see two-factor authentication as an option for withdrawals and for changes to the account security (e.g., removing the OTP, or changing the e-mail address tied to the account.)

A plea to exchanges ... lets do 2 factor right!
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=109424.0

I don't think OTP is necessary for login though (or at least that would be a second option for how to secure an account using OTP).  Needing OTP for each login makes it inconvenient, whereas I would rarely withdraw or change the security settings.

We have had 2-step withdrawals on the backburner for a while now. We are planning on allowing users to opt to require an email confirmation before withdrawing any funds, changing the email address, or changing their password. So, stay tuned, we will be adding this soon!

Note that we are already very secure against session highjacking: Our session cookies is stored as a Secure HttpOnly cookie (meaning it can't be accessed from javascript, and it will only be sent over an https connection).

Another little detail that you may want to consider:

When I win at roulette, the winnings count up gradually on my balance.  If, while they're counting up, I place another bet and spin the wheel again, they keep counting up until they're done, and only then is the new bet deducted from the total.  The deduction happens in a single step, rather than counting down gradually.  It looks odd to see the game work 'so hard' to add to my balance, when it can remove chips in the blink of an eye.

I don't know if it needs changing, but maybe it's something to think about.  Would it be better if adding and removing chips from my balance both happened at the same 'speed', whether gradual or instant?

Good thought! My suspicion is that this would be a little bit "busy" with too much animation. But, I'll give it a try, and see how it feels!

SRG
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October 17, 2012, 02:39:32 AM
 #290

The addition of craps put me over and I'm now a registered user!  The craps odds are great and I love the interface.

My only suggestion is to add a 50/50 double up option for video poker after you win.  This would let me turn my jacks or better break even result into a "win"!

Thanks for a great site!
dooglus
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October 17, 2012, 06:56:26 AM
 #291

I don't know if it needs changing, but maybe it's something to think about.  Would it be better if adding and removing chips from my balance both happened at the same 'speed', whether gradual or instant?

Good thought! My suspicion is that this would be a little bit "busy" with too much animation. But, I'll give it a try, and see how it feels!

There was some talk long ago about allowing the user to disable animations.  Perhaps this is one such animation.  Along with the 'rolling' dice, spinning roulette wheel, etc.

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October 17, 2012, 05:55:49 PM
 #292

adding "doubleup" will just bring this "fair" game into another gambling rolling dice ... with the same result You will just lose ALL your money overtime  (with more fun, of course ...)

ps. Bitzino , If you add this, please allow users to disable this feature, I will not pass my time on the screen saying "No, thanks" ...

I imagine the 50/50 roll would also be provably fair, since everything else on the site is.

Gamblers tend to like the 50/50 double-up bet since it has a 0% house edge, which is better than any other bet on offer, generally.  It doesn't cost the house any expectation, but does increase their variance.  Instead of "jack high" being a break-even hand for the house, it becomes either a +1 or a -1 result with equal probability if the player takes the 50/50.

dooglus
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October 17, 2012, 10:01:43 PM
 #293

I just checked the 'max bets' in the top left corner of the roulette game.  It tells me the max bet per number, and the "max overall bet" which I presume is the most I can bet per spin in total.  But I don't see the max I can bet on any of the other bets.  What's the max I can bet on a 50/50 bet like red or even?  Are you counting that as a "number"?

I think most places will allow you to bet higher on the bets which have a lower return.  As I remember it, the world's #1 Bitcoin Casino (lol, jk) has a higher limit when you're betting on groups of 6 or more numbers than when you're betting on less than 6 (like 4, 3, 2, or a single number).

Either way, I think the "max bets" section should be made clearer.

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October 17, 2012, 10:51:18 PM
 #294

I just checked the 'max bets' in the top left corner of the roulette game.  It tells me the max bet per number, and the "max overall bet" which I presume is the most I can bet per spin in total.  But I don't see the max I can bet on any of the other bets.  What's the max I can bet on a 50/50 bet like red or even?  Are you counting that as a "number"?

I think most places will allow you to bet higher on the bets which have a lower return.  As I remember it, the world's #1 Bitcoin Casino (lol, jk) has a higher limit when you're betting on groups of 6 or more numbers than when you're betting on less than 6 (like 4, 3, 2, or a single number).

Either way, I think the "max bets" section should be made clearer.

I'm open to suggestions to improvements, but I do think the current wording is actually pretty good, considering the actual complicated formula for determining the maximum:

The overall max is always 10 BTC. This means you can bet 10 BTC on red itself, as long as you have no other wagers. If instead you bet 1 BTC on anything else, then you can bet up to 9 BTC on red.

For individual numbers, the maximum you can bet is more complicated. Basically, the maximum stake you can have in any single number is 1 BTC. So, you can bet up to 2 BTC on the 1,2 Split, and up to 4 BTC on the 1,2,4,5 Corner. This calculation can get somewhat complicated at times: for example, if you have a 0.1 BTC wager on 1 Straight, then you can only wager up to 1.8 BTC on the 1,2 Split - because any more would give you too much stake in the 1. Note though, that we don't count "outer wagers" toward individual numbers in this formula. This means you can wager 1 BTC on Odd, and still wager up to a full 1 BTC on the 1 (even though you technically already have 1/18th BTC stake on the 1).

This formula is complicated, but ideal in that it allows users to bet the maximum while still keeping the house variance within a specifically controlled level. (It's not actually perfectly ideal, since variance isn't actually a linear relationship with regard to risk - but it is a pretty good approximation for these values (also, our "outer wager" exception is non-perfect)).

In order to make this simple for the user, the maximum bet for any specific wager is dynamically calculated and shown in the popup that appears up when you click on the wager.

So, now that you know the nitty-gritty details of the formula, can you think of a better summary? Smiley

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October 18, 2012, 02:12:29 AM
 #295

I'm open to suggestions to improvements, but I do think the current wording is actually pretty good, considering the actual complicated formula for determining the maximum:

The overall max is always 10 BTC. This means you can bet 10 BTC on red itself, as long as you have no other wagers. If instead you bet 1 BTC on anything else, then you can bet up to 9 BTC on red.

For individual numbers, the maximum you can bet is more complicated. Basically, the maximum stake you can have in any single number is 1 BTC. So, you can bet up to 2 BTC on the 1,2 Split, and up to 4 BTC on the 1,2,4,5 Corner. This calculation can get somewhat complicated at times: for example, if you have a 0.1 BTC wager on 1 Straight, then you can only wager up to 1.8 BTC on the 1,2 Split - because any more would give you too much stake in the 1. Note though, that we don't count "outer wagers" toward individual numbers in this formula. This means you can wager 1 BTC on Odd, and still wager up to a full 1 BTC on the 1 (even though you technically already have 1/18th BTC stake on the 1).

This formula is complicated, but ideal in that it allows users to bet the maximum while still keeping the house variance within a specifically controlled level. (It's not actually perfectly ideal, since variance isn't actually a linear relationship with regard to risk - but it is a pretty good approximation for these values (also, our "outer wager" exception is non-perfect)).

In order to make this simple for the user, the maximum bet for any specific wager is dynamically calculated and shown in the popup that appears up when you click on the wager.

So, now that you know the nitty-gritty details of the formula, can you think of a better summary? Smiley

My initial reaction is one of surprise.  I would *never* have guessed at the maximum bet formula you just described given the description.  There's literally no way the user could come up with the conceptt you just explained from the description you make available to him, especially not the wrinkle that outer wagers don't count at all towards the amounts wagered on numbers but every other bet does.

In particular the simple 2 line description of "max bets" leads me to believe that you have a simple way of determining the max bets, whereas in fact it's pretty complex.  Players probably never think of putting 1.8 BTC on a 1,2 Split as being the same as putting 0.9 on 1 and 0.9 on 2 although mathematically it is equivalent.  And even if they do, then I don't see why they wouldn't similarly think of putting 1.8 BTC on red as being the same as putting 0.1 on each red number...

It seems weird to me that betting on '1st row' (betting on the 12 multiples of 3) doesn't count as a bet on number 3, but betting on '1st 12' *does* count as a bet on number 3.  They're both 12-number bets.  I guess you're not counting '1st 12' as an outer wager, whereas '1st row' is an outer wager?

I would like to see a link ('details'?) in the 'max bets' info which pops up a description much like what you just posted, so I can know what's really going on.  I think changing the first line of the text to "max total bet per number" would go some way to helping the user guess at your formula - at least that clues her in that multiple bets are being added in some way for each number, but I still don't think it's clear enough without the extra link to the actual details.

Having the max bet show up in the popup when I'm making a bet goes some way to solving the problem, but doesn't help when the max bet is more than I currently have available to bet.  In that instance I just see my current balance, when I want to know what the maximum really is - so I can decide how much more I need to deposit.

Maybe all it needs is a 'rules' page which lists all these details for each of the games, so you can keep the uncluttered game interface, but still have these details available somewhere.

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October 18, 2012, 03:04:29 AM
 #296

We have had 2-step withdrawals on the backburner for a while now. We are planning on allowing users to opt to require an email confirmation before withdrawing any funds, changing the email address, or changing their password. So, stay tuned, we will be adding this soon!

That still doesn't protect the person whose computer used for withdrawing is compromised, but it does at least provide more security than simple username and password.  With the ability to play on unconfirmed deposits, there  is no need to hold a large balance in the account.  Thus this proposed e-mail based secondary authentication step will probably be sufficient for most.

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October 18, 2012, 04:50:39 AM
 #297

I was just trying a variation on martingale betting - betting the first 5 groups of 6 numbers, and multiplying the bet by 6 when I lose.  I had a run of three 31-36's in a row which caused my bet per group to go 100, 600, 3600, 21600.  One of the 21600's won, winning 129600.  The win was displayed in a tiny almost-impossible-to-read font size:



You probably don't want to make the text too big in the case that there are other winning bets nearby, but when only one bet wins maybe you can afford to make the text bigger?

Edit: I won a 7 figure sum, and it looks like it uses the same small font (yes, I'm now a millionaire in microbitcoins!):


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October 18, 2012, 05:16:27 AM
 #298

I just noticed something else that I hadn't noticed before.

I only just started playing 'Sixline' bets.  I've been playing 5 of them at a time.

When I win, I want to quickly click 'Repeat last' then 'Spin' to play again.  I wait for the 'Repeat last' button to stop being grey, click it, but nothing happens.

It turns out that there's about a 1 second delay each time between the 'Repeat last' button changing from grey to white text and the button actually becoming clickable.  During that 1 second, the mouse cursor is an arrow when hovering over the button.  After the 1 second delay the mouse cursor changes to a hand with a pointy index finger, like it does on all other active buttons.

I didn't notice this delay when playing single red/black bets.  Although I just checked and it is happening there now as well, whether I win or lose the button goes white a short while before it goes active.  Maybe it's not a whole second, but it's long enough that I always seem to click before it's listening for clicks.

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October 18, 2012, 05:53:37 AM
 #299

Dear Bitzino. Please let me know how to disable the doomswitch in user preferences. Thank you very much.
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October 18, 2012, 06:46:19 AM
 #300

Dear Bitzino. Please let me know how to disable the doomswitch in user preferences. Thank you very much.

The doomswitch only gets turned on when you bet more than you want to lose in my experience.

Try betting for microbitcoins - you'll win lots then.  Smiley

Just kidding - it's all provably fair.  It's God who hates you.

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