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Author Topic: bitZino - Bitcoin Casino - Blackjack, Roulette, 3 Card Poker, Slots and more!  (Read 75519 times)
dooglus
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July 23, 2012, 04:25:46 PM
 #121

Just a small niggle, but when playing blackjack I can't immediately tell whether I've hit 21 or bust since my total disappears from the screen.  In either situation the dealer turns over his card, and my total vanishes until the dealer has finished his taking his turn, which may involve quite a few cards.

Would it be possible to have my total displayed while the dealer is acting?  Also, the dealer's total isn't displayed while he's acting, only when he finishes.  I'd like to see the dealer's total change as the he plays.

Good suggestion! We'll have to change how we do our dealing logic somewhat - the difficulty is that the javascript in the browser doesn't really have any knowledge of the blackjack game itself, all the game logic is on the server, the javascript is dumb and just handles dealing the cards.

We'll figure out a way to do this though, cause, I agree, it will be much better.

Maybe related to this:

If I play a play money blackjack game and put all my chips on a single hand and lose, the "you're out of play money" alert pops up as soon as I bust or stand, and before the dealer even starts playing.  It's odd to stand on 20, then see that I've lost, and only then have the dealer hit a 6 card 21 to beat me.  It feels "cheaty", like the 6 card 21 was pre-determined.  It was, of course, but it would look better if the "out of money" alert only showed up after I had seen the hand play out.  See these screenshots of it happening.  In each case I had stood at 16 or 18.  The dealer has 13, 15, and 10, but has already been declared the winner:


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libertaad
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July 23, 2012, 05:15:54 PM
 #122

Dealer had 3 blackjacks in a row.

That's not really fair...

Sorry for the bad luck Sad We're definitely not cheating though, in fact it would be computationally impossible for us to cheat! You can read about the details of how we make our system provably fair at https://bitzino.com/about/fair

Dealer had 3 blackjacks in a row.

That's not really fair...
I still don't understand how I can verify the actual cards played are verifiable by the hash. This needs to be explained a little better.

We have a basic explanation, as well as a javascript hand verifier posted at https://bitzino.com/about/fair. We also have an in-depth technical explanation on our tech blog at https://techblog.bitzino.com/2012-06-30-provably-fair-shuffling-through-cryptography.html

The very high-level explanation is that we reshuffle the cards before every hand using a seed you provide us. This reshuffling makes it impossible for us to predetermine the order of the cards, and therefore guarantees you a fair game every time.

I'm also happy to answer any questions you may have about it!

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July 23, 2012, 05:17:57 PM
 #123

Maybe related to this:

If I play a play money blackjack game and put all my chips on a single hand and lose, the "you're out of play money" alert pops up as soon as I bust or stand, and before the dealer even starts playing.

Ah yeah, we're aware of that as well - it's definitely not the correct behavior. We're working on fixing the animations right now!

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July 25, 2012, 05:36:14 PM
 #124

The very high-level explanation is that we reshuffle the cards before every hand using a seed you provide us. This reshuffling makes it impossible for us to predetermine the order of the cards, and therefore guarantees you a fair game every time.

I'm also happy to answer any questions you may have about it!

Protip: I overtype the seed box sometimes with phrases like, "Stop cheating me, you jerks!" and I win almost every time when I do this.
mem
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July 29, 2012, 12:47:14 PM
 #125

Just wondering what the normal cash out delay is ?

edit never mind Im just an impatient bastard Tongue

libertaad
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July 30, 2012, 02:17:32 AM
 #126

Protip: I overtype the seed box sometimes with phrases like, "Stop cheating me, you jerks!" and I win almost every time when I do this.

Hahaha Cheesy

This is why we say "If you're superstitious, this is a great place to put something lucky, because whatever you put here has a direct impact on the final shuffle of the deck." I do think that it's a cool aspect of the provably fair system - you can control your own destiny.

Just wondering what the normal cash out delay is ?

edit never mind Im just an impatient bastard Tongue

We promise to always process withdrawals within 24 hours, but we usually process them much faster: usually within an hour or so of your request. We used to require 6 confirmations on your deposits before processing your withdrawal, which can sometimes take much longer than an hour. So we have just lowered that requirement down to 2 confirmations for most circumstances. So, it should now be a much more pleasant experience if you want to deposit a few coins, play a few hands, and then withdraw immediately afterward.


Also, update on the blackjack animations: We've made several subtle updates as per the suggestions in this thread. Thanks for all the feedback, and keep it coming!

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July 30, 2012, 03:35:49 AM
 #127

Keep up the great work, I really like your site design.

Neat and minimalistic - just my style Smiley

dooglus
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July 30, 2012, 04:46:52 AM
 #128

Also, update on the blackjack animations: We've made several subtle updates as per the suggestions in this thread.

It looks like you've addressed both the issues I raised - the "out of money" coming up too soon, and the count not appearing while the dealer plays.

Perfect, thanks!  Smiley

dooglus
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July 30, 2012, 04:53:16 AM
 #129

There's an issue that I don't think I mentioned.  It may be obscure enough that it's not worth fixing, but anyway...

Last weekend the Internet here was really slow.  I think because there was a music festival nearby which meant lots more people than usual were sharing the 3G connection I use.  Anyway, I'd hit "Bet" and it would show "Betting" for 5 or 10 seconds while trying to communicate with the server.  If during that 5 or 10 seconds I opened up the "Provably Fair" sub-window, then the display would be corrupted when the cards were eventually dealt.  It's very hard to reproduce now the festival is over, but I guess you can reproduce it by having the test server pause 5 seconds before dealing each hand.

I took screenshots at the time:
  http://i.imgur.com/YtQf1.png
  http://i.imgur.com/pgqZm.png

Notice how the "More Games" subwindow is overlapping the main game window.

Stephen Gornick
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July 30, 2012, 06:38:35 AM
 #130

If I am not watching my balance, I might end up without enough at the table to double down or split.  Isn't a buy-in something I should be allowed to do at any point?

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July 30, 2012, 01:02:01 PM
 #131

There's an issue that I don't think I mentioned.  It may be obscure enough that it's not worth fixing, but anyway...

Last weekend the Internet here was really slow.  I think because there was a music festival nearby which meant lots more people than usual were sharing the 3G connection I use.  Anyway, I'd hit "Bet" and it would show "Betting" for 5 or 10 seconds while trying to communicate with the server.  If during that 5 or 10 seconds I opened up the "Provably Fair" sub-window, then the display would be corrupted when the cards were eventually dealt.  It's very hard to reproduce now the festival is over, but I guess you can reproduce it by having the test server pause 5 seconds before dealing each hand.

I took screenshots at the time:
  http://i.imgur.com/YtQf1.png
  http://i.imgur.com/pgqZm.png

Notice how the "More Games" subwindow is overlapping the main game window.

Thanks for the bug report! Even though it's rare, it is definitely something that warrants fixing. Fortunately, the fix was easy, so we already pushed it out. It was certainly a strange corner case - it had to do with the order in which cookies are set in javascript, so it's something we'll be on the lookout for in the future.

We're very grateful for all the feedback and bug reports you've sent us Dooglus. We added an extra BTC to your account as a way to say thanks for all the help you've given us.

If I am not watching my balance, I might end up without enough at the table to double down or split.  Isn't a buy-in something I should be allowed to do at any point?

You can indeed add extra balance to the table at any time, even mid-hand. If you click on your balance (right above the "Split" button), you'll see a popup which allows you to add balance.

I wonder if there's a good way to make it more obvious that that is a click-able element. I was thinking of just adding a help bubble when the table is first created that informs the user that you can click there to add balance at any point...

dooglus
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July 30, 2012, 06:51:45 PM
 #132

We're very grateful for all the feedback and bug reports you've sent us Dooglus. We added an extra BTC to your account as a way to say thanks for all the help you've given us.

Thanks for that!

I wasn't sure whether to report that one or not since it took such special timing to provoke.

I guess I'll keep reporting everything that bugs me...

Edit: is there some way I can get rid of the odd .62 uBTC in my account?  I don't seem to be able to bet it or withdraw it.  It looks like I deposited it, so I guess I can deposit the matching .38 uBTC to make it go away.

How about letting people set 'satoshi' as their base unit, along with BTC, cBTC, mBTC and uBTC, with the understanding that they'll lose due to rounding if they get a blackjack after betting an odd amount?

(Or maybe just I shouldn't deposit such silly amounts)

Another thing: I was running low at the table, and wanted to re-buy, using the button I hadn't noticed before and which you pointed out in your previous post.  I clicked the 'Buy In' button, and nothing happened for a few seconds.  The button hadn't changed ('buying in...') and the dialog hadn't gone away, so there was no way I could know whether the click had registered or not.  It had, and it appears after trying it again that the button's border flashes when I click it, but I missed that the first time.  It would be better if something permanently changed to let me know that it was waiting for the network, not for me.

libertaad
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July 31, 2012, 12:20:33 AM
 #133

Edit: is there some way I can get rid of the odd .62 uBTC in my account?  I don't seem to be able to bet it or withdraw it.  It looks like I deposited it, so I guess I can deposit the matching .38 uBTC to make it go away.

How about letting people set 'satoshi' as their base unit, along with BTC, cBTC, mBTC and uBTC, with the understanding that they'll lose due to rounding if they get a blackjack after betting an odd amount?

We've been considering adding a satoshi base unit, but, as you mention, it gets complicated since blackjacks are supposed to pay 3 to 2. I don't really like the idea of only paying 1:1 because that make the game significantly worse for the player. We may allow users to have half-satoshi's while they're on the table, and only round them down when they leave the table.

In the meantime though, you should definitely be able to withdraw your 62 satoshi's. Just issue a withdrawal request for the appropriate amount, and we'll send it to you.

Another thing: I was running low at the table, and wanted to re-buy, using the button I hadn't noticed before and which you pointed out in your previous post.  I clicked the 'Buy In' button, and nothing happened for a few seconds.  The button hadn't changed ('buying in...') and the dialog hadn't gone away, so there was no way I could know whether the click had registered or not.  It had, and it appears after trying it again that the button's border flashes when I click it, but I missed that the first time.  It would be better if something permanently changed to let me know that it was waiting for the network, not for me.

Ah, good catch. Good thing you have slow internet so you can test these cases Smiley We'll add a disable-with message to the button (so it says "Buying in..." after you click it, same as the other buttons on our site).

dooglus
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July 31, 2012, 07:34:44 PM
 #134

How about a little javascript to automatically select the whole field when I click on one of the 'provably fail fair' fields?  Currently it's a pain to copy/paste the 'secret' field since I have to triple-click it.  Double-clicking is enough for the other fields, but the secret contains multiple words, so a triple-click is required.

If you're interested, here's a little Python script I wrote that takes three parameters (the client seed, hash, and secret).  It verifies that the hash matches the secret, and prints out the first 52 cards that will be dealt.

http://pastie.org/4366926

And an example of its use:

Quote
$ ./bitzino 'let me win!'
usage: ./bitzino client_seed hash secret
$ ./bitzino 'let me win!' e3dd6687a1d5c8a2d9ea5814537224c0bf10b773a0fbcc7e68e324670e246fce xxx
hash is wrong
$ ./bitzino 'let me win!' e3dd6687a1d5c8a2d9ea5814537224c0bf10b773a0fbcc7e68e324670e246fce '{"server_seed":"mnhLByjdYeAjOLuraU-m3CtTEUM-CmqF","initial_shuffle":"EuFpkpzG8uopcb6soIOsNF57LsFOntqowNJADgBmK4533DnxpEAzGLe04aBjckLrqcuf21gPdNlMPhm dIgxh5m8zCqAojpClzfNFHavn5EiymfMJkKFaKjqnnOi47It9NO4fH93gDdj33lENk0lOJ7HmmpE0gD LdeGgBrejsEejAiwbsPsNhrzinhFsBCxL1bAatODuMiLwMOPbKy9qacBm2H2H2fCp4rLqdFe6Eyw7l1 jbPkDIpvxwHGhb92aHc9zhvIt46aveqLtiu0tHy57P9c4I77fr8wdzahtM67xywJ1NcBMF1KIGvvPc1 CP9E2evxOJ2wr0lzKJg4r3A0bkh8oynyg358fjDmdo3qAJ2tbCu6kCCIAkuK1BG66eBiGviD18lsl6x Moyu0K0xod5rG5M8f89nJ"}'
6c As Jd Jh Jh Qc Ac 2c 9d Kc 4d 2d 6h 6h 3d 8s Ac 6s 3d 3h Qs 7d Qd 6c 9c 10c 9h Ac 7h 8s 9c 5d 5c Ks Kc 6d Kh Ah 2c 9d 8c 6s 3s Ad Qd Qd Kd 3d 8h 8s 10h 4d

As you can see from the bolded cards, using a client seed of 'let me win!' isn't 100% effective.

libertaad
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July 31, 2012, 09:38:37 PM
 #135

How about a little javascript to automatically select the whole field when I click on one of the 'provably fail fair' fields?  Currently it's a pain to copy/paste the 'secret' field since I have to triple-click it.  Double-clicking is enough for the other fields, but the secret contains multiple words, so a triple-click is required.

I'm personally really against messing with the default selection logic of text boxes. It's always unexpected for the user, because there's no way to visually indicate that this text box is different. So, I think it ultimately ends up with more user confusion and frustration. So, I don't think we'll be implementing this :/

What about just doing "CTRL+A" + "CTRL+C", as a quick consistent way to always copy everything?

I do wish there was a way to securely modify the clipboard with javascript. I really like github's "copy to clipboard" buttons - it's just a shame they require flash.

If you're interested, here's a little Python script I wrote that takes three parameters (the client seed, hash, and secret).  It verifies that the hash matches the secret, and prints out the first 52 cards that will be dealt.

http://pastie.org/4366926

And an example of its use:

Quote
$ ./bitzino 'let me win!'
usage: ./bitzino client_seed hash secret
$ ./bitzino 'let me win!' e3dd6687a1d5c8a2d9ea5814537224c0bf10b773a0fbcc7e68e324670e246fce xxx
hash is wrong
$ ./bitzino 'let me win!' e3dd6687a1d5c8a2d9ea5814537224c0bf10b773a0fbcc7e68e324670e246fce '{"server_seed":"mnhLByjdYeAjOLuraU-m3CtTEUM-CmqF","initial_shuffle":"EuFpkpzG8uopcb6soIOsNF57LsFOntqowNJADgBmK4533DnxpEAzGLe04aBjckLrqcuf21gPdNlMPhm dIgxh5m8zCqAojpClzfNFHavn5EiymfMJkKFaKjqnnOi47It9NO4fH93gDdj33lENk0lOJ7HmmpE0gD LdeGgBrejsEejAiwbsPsNhrzinhFsBCxL1bAatODuMiLwMOPbKy9qacBm2H2H2fCp4rLqdFe6Eyw7l1 jbPkDIpvxwHGhb92aHc9zhvIt46aveqLtiu0tHy57P9c4I77fr8wdzahtM67xywJ1NcBMF1KIGvvPc1 CP9E2evxOJ2wr0lzKJg4r3A0bkh8oynyg358fjDmdo3qAJ2tbCu6kCCIAkuK1BG66eBiGviD18lsl6x Moyu0K0xod5rG5M8f89nJ"}'
6c As Jd Jh Jh Qc Ac 2c 9d Kc 4d 2d 6h 6h 3d 8s Ac 6s 3d 3h Qs 7d Qd 6c 9c 10c 9h Ac 7h 8s 9c 5d 5c Ks Kc 6d Kh Ah 2c 9d 8c 6s 3s Ad Qd Qd Kd 3d 8h 8s 10h 4d

As you can see from the bolded cards, using a client seed of 'let me win!' isn't 100% effective.

This is AWESOME! Cheesy Very clean code. And I love that you output the actual cards in the deck!

dooglus
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July 31, 2012, 11:40:01 PM
 #136

I'm personally really against messing with the default selection logic of text boxes.

That's fair enough.  I guess people aren't really going to be manually copying the fields on a regular basis.  They'll either do it a few times and see that it's trustworthy, or they'll use some kind of plugin to do it automatically for them.

If you're interested, here's a little Python script I wrote that takes three parameters (the client seed, hash, and secret).  It verifies that the hash matches the secret, and prints out the first 52 cards that will be dealt.

This is AWESOME! Cheesy Very clean code. And I love that you output the actual cards in the deck!

Feel free to do what you like with it.  It's basically your javascript code with the unused bits removed and converted into Python.  A lot of the guts of it are unchanged from the javascript.

I think it's more convincing for the users to be able to input just the first 3 fields and have an independent program tell them what the cards were rather than have a flashy javascript 'verify' page say "yep - looks good" without showing anything that's going on behind the scenes.  At least with the Python program they get to see that the first 3 fields lead to the cards they saw dealt.  I suppose a relatively small percentage of users are going to bother to install Python and run the script, but it's nice to have the option, for those who ask "what can I do with this 'probably fair' stuff?"

dooglus
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August 01, 2012, 02:10:16 AM
 #137

Thanks for lending me the bitcoin.  I've finished with it now and 'given' it back to you.

libertaad
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August 01, 2012, 09:18:32 AM
 #138

I think it's more convincing for the users to be able to input just the first 3 fields and have an independent program tell them what the cards were rather than have a flashy javascript 'verify' page say "yep - looks good" without showing anything that's going on behind the scenes.  At least with the Python program they get to see that the first 3 fields lead to the cards they saw dealt.  I suppose a relatively small percentage of users are going to bother to install Python and run the script, but it's nice to have the option, for those who ask "what can I do with this 'probably fair' stuff?"

I agree about the fact that an independent program is far more convincing than anything we provide on our site. That's why I'm so excited you implemented one!

You make a good point about actually showing the final deck too. Maybe we'll add that to our javascript verifier...

Thanks for lending me the bitcoin.  I've finished with it now and 'given' it back to you.

I hope you had fun with it!

dooglus
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August 01, 2012, 06:29:52 PM
 #139

I hope you had fun with it!

Yes, thanks.  I re-confirmed to myself that martingale betting and blackjack don't go together very well.

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August 06, 2012, 02:28:48 PM
 #140

Over the weekend, we hit another milestone hand at bitZino! Since launching we've seen over 250,000 hands played for real bitcoins.

The majority of our players tend to play Blackjack, but there is a small dedicated group of players that is really enjoying our Video Poker game, which is really helping to drive up the hands played count.

As we did with our 50k milestone, we are giving away bitcoins to celebrate! The lucky player that played hand number 250k was awarded 2.5 BTC. All the players that were close to playing the milestone hand were awarded 0.25 BTC.

We're incredibly excited about the success we've seen so far with bitZino. We truly believe that gambling with bitcoins is the way of the future, and we're excited to make bitZino be a part of that future!

As always, I'm here and open to any feedback or questions you have!

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