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[coins101]

These are some great stats.

A few years ago you would have needed to pay $thousands to get this sort of stuff.



Just a small number of firms (in the UK) account for most of the market.

Then there are the stats about lenders and borrowers. Roughly a ratio of 2 to 3 borrowers for every lender. This changes depending on the platform you're on.

What's great about the stats is that the China model (funding some of the deposits for residential property deals) is still largely absent. I don't know why, it's one of the more attractive markets where there is a HUGE demand (just ask yourself if you wanted to buy a property, would you take up a loan to fund some of your equity deposit instead of saving forever all while property prices keep moving up).

[bitcreditscc]

...
The original idea was to get users to create trust and credit rating based on their blockchain activity, websites.....create an attack vector ....

These are some key stats and reports that we will need to generate from the Blockchain or the loan books in order to meet several regulatory hurdles.  With these, we can join various peer-to-peer organisations.  This is important because, well, see towards the end  

Bad Debts:



Returns:



Most of this we should be able to generate on demand, although we need to submit these stats once a year.

There are a few sticking points:

1. KYC.  We need to have a way to verify users. I'm thinking that we can make this part of the application process and users will have to get verified by a notary or lawyer.  The lawyer can then submit a verification code which we can hash into the blockchain.

We'll need to deal with this carefully as KYC covers both lenders and borrowers.  We might be able to get around some of this if we just go after penny loans, but the real money is in the big loans. So we'll have to deal with KYC somehow.

2. Chasing bad debts. We've got a strategy for that (legal kneecapping).

So, OP. The data we need to provide should be something we can get from the blockchain?

Why this is important to get right:



The market 5 years ago when I first looked at it hardly mattered. £1m in revenues. In the last year, revenues went from £2bn to £4bn. That's a sign of explosive growth happening. Consumers and businesses have got the message and they are opting for peer-to-peer finance.

This is, as they say, the ground floor of a new financial sector being born right before our eyes.

BCR can expand on this in so many ways. For example, using BTC, we can syndicate loans all over the world. Link BTC to fiat and an investor in California can join with an investor from France and lend money to someone building a house in China or India.

The numbers can be generated, though we need to raise the valuation of BCR for them to make sense

[coins101]

...

The numbers can be generated, though we need to raise the valuation of BCR for them to make sense

Great.

I'm still not 100% clear how we handle fiat loans. Setting up bank accounts is easy. Managing the fiat loan book is the trick.

For example, the blockchain can handle the data, reputation, etc. But at some point an instruction needs to go from the BCR client, to lenders to send funds to a bank account and for that account to issue a loan to a borrower.  Then the reverse needs to happen.

Get this right and we go from $40k marketcap to $100m.

I was thinking that we can partner with one or a few of the smaller peer-to-peer firms. But I'd rather we figured this out ourselves and kept all the margin.

[thelonecrouton]

I suggested on Slack some kind of direct in-wallet BCT/BCR conversion facilty a-la NXT:  (or Shapeshift)

Bunch of ways we could do this, I'll leave that to the dev...  

A great side-benefit of this is that credit-scoring code could also snoop buyers BTC balances and history...  

[thelonecrouton]

Suggestions are welcomed for what the v2.0 wallet should look like GUI wise.

Know a website or blog or other piece of software that looks great and makes a user's experience more pleasant? Point me at it please.

(Simple and slick beats complex flashery IMO.)

[coins101]

Suggestions are welcomed for what the v2.0 wallet should look like GUI wise.

Know a website or blog or other piece of software that looks great and makes a user's experience more pleasant? Point me at it please.

(Simple and slick beats complex flashery IMO.)

The SDC wallet is pretty slick. The new one due out (or it might already be out) should be even better.

The DASH wallet is good too.

edit

The OpenBazaar GUI is supposed to be really, really good, too. Try that. It has a market which might suit a lend/borrow experience as it also has a rating system.

[rhinomonkey]

The SDC wallet is pretty slick. The new one due out (or it might already be out) should be even better.

Can confirm. Though, it's not out quite yet. Perhaps in their next update?

Came here because I noticed a frenzy of coins101 activity. I might invest a little into this; looks like a neat idea.

[coins101]

The SDC wallet is pretty slick. The new one due out (or it might already be out) should be even better.

Can confirm. Though, it's not out quite yet. Perhaps in their next update?

Came here because I noticed a frenzy of coins101 activity. I might invest a little into this; looks like a neat idea.

Actually, it doesn't compete with SPR and, well, waiting for SNs  

Been keeping tabs on BCR for a long time now and the peer to peer lending market is just about ripe to pop.

[bitcreditscc]

mundane but serious issue, shall we go the sha256d route or something else?

[jasemoney]

mundane but serious issue, shall we go the sha256d route or something else?

anything that doesnt require bootstraps on restart or "reconsider block" will be more than ideal.

using sha256d allows you to leverage the latest bitcoin client codebase so thats helpful.

using sha256d gets rid of the "low powered mining approach" that was a long term goal which unfortunately led to the chain issues BCR had for the past many months. while forcing momentum mining onto balances over 50k, and again to balances over 50k and not within last 40 blocks sounded great on paper, it didnt really work out.

I remember you saying "sha with birthdays" or other algos to keep it cpu based. but i think with the innovation for the p2p lending side of things its likely worthwhile to focus on that featureset than "reinventing the wheel" as far as mining is concerned. as long as the chain is bulletproof no ones going to care what algo it is.

PS: just for shits n giggles idea, if you want to go the company route and get registered as coins101 mentions, maybe its worth looking into a DAPP or app on Ethereum or Maidsafe or Lisk or Bitshares. Leverage their new networks in some novel way as an organization. Im sure Maidsafe could accomodate a p2p service being built on top of its internet 2.0 offering once thats completed.
(dont flame me for this addon suggestions)

[coins101]

mundane but serious issue, shall we go the sha256d route or something else?

.....
PS: just for shits n giggles idea, if you want to go the company route and get registered as coins101 mentions, maybe its worth looking into a DAPP or app on Ethereum or Maidsafe or Lisk or Bitshares. Leverage their new networks in some novel way as an organization. Im sure Maidsafe could accomodate a p2p service being built on top of its internet 2.0 offering once thats completed.
(dont flame me for this addon suggestions)

In terms of mining, Sir Crouton has some very specific ideas about getting rid of miners. I think they are needed, so it is mainly about the algo. There are plenty of SHA ASICs and you might find an attack very easy at the moment. Needs some thought, but I think focusing on the financial services aspect is probably the thing to do, as suggested above, for now.

Around this time last year I was thinking about how to make the end user experience much easier than it currently is, in terms of running a client where you get all the benefits of decentralization.

I started thinking about a hybrid version of Blockchain.info and a full client.  Then it struck me that what you needed was a Decentralized version of Coinbase running on Masternodes.  Several months later, Evan @DASH came out with Evolution, a version of PayPal.

So I'd think about going down that direction - decentralized Coinbase or Evolution type of accounts. That would mean masternodes running several services.  DAPP is then a different issue to what services masternodes run for profit.

Right now P2P is hardly regulated. The authorities will eventually move in, but for now they want to encourage this sector because it creates an alternative to lending via banks.

You don't actually need an organisation or company at the moment, but I think it's essential for growth as there needs to be an interaction with Fiat to achieve explosive growth and benefit from the recent (last year or two) interest in P2P finance.

BCR already has a .org address. The organisation needs to be able to open a bank account and that will mean lenders can deposit fiat funds and borrowers can be paid out in Fiat from the lenders cash.  The monthly repayments can be paid back to that bank account and interest payments plus loan repayments paid back to lenders.

The BCR blockchain can generate the banking reconciliation reports and the clients / blockchain can handle the instructions on who needs to pay whom and when.

I don't think BCR needs to be a company (there are several types of organisations that can be formed, eg a charity), although probably BCR should consider creating a company of some type. Masternodes could probably be issued with shares in that company (shares are now all pretty much fully automated). Now that would be interesting. DAPP could then be used as a way to do shareholder voting.

With so many things to do in terms of generating the right P2P financial experience, messing around with the algo now might be a distraction - actually, the algo details and the max coin supply aren't in the OP.

[coins101]

Masternodes being allocated real shares in a real organisation / company.

Wow.

I'm lovin it.

Every time a masternode is created, the shares are split according to the number of shares in issue. You don't actually need to physically issue any shares to anyone - the BCR organisation can hold them and vote them in trust for Masternodes.

Running a masternode just gives you the rights to vote the number of shares and get the benefit of the dividends.

That way, the DAPP can run on pretty much standard company law and voting principles, which are well established. And if the company were to ever be floated on a stock exchange - bloody hell. World first, incoming.

[coins101]

@OP - Thanks for the note about a whitepaper.

I've got an alternative suggestion. But I'll keep it a little secret for a few weeks. I think it will go down well. I'm keeping it under wraps because I reckon it can generate some great PR.

[bitcreditscc]

@OP - Thanks for the note about a whitepaper.

I've got an alternative suggestion. But I'll keep it a little secret for a few weeks. I think it will go down well. I'm keeping it under wraps because I reckon it can generate some great PR.

If you were not aware...BCR v 1.0 already supports Assets ie shares, you can issue some as a test if you want 

Most of the components are already written into the code, this include code for cross-chain basenodes. What we are doing now is cherry picking and expanding on what we know works. As for the actual project, Lending is just one application we already have a general idea how to do Insurance , Micro banking , and a decentralized ebay.

All we need is for two guys i know to hop aboard the dev team for two to three months.

[coins101]

@OP - Thanks for the note about a whitepaper.

I've got an alternative suggestion. But I'll keep it a little secret for a few weeks. I think it will go down well. I'm keeping it under wraps because I reckon it can generate some great PR.

If you were not aware...BCR v 1.0 already supports Assets ie shares, you can issue some as a test if you want  

Most of the components are already written into the code, this include code for cross-chain basenodes. What we are doing now is cherry picking and expanding on what we know works. As for the actual project, Lending is just one application we already have a general idea how to do Insurance , Micro banking , and a decentralized ebay.

All we need is for two guys i know to hop aboard the dev team for two to three months.

Sounds good.

A lot of this stuff is interacting with the real world.

For example.

* If you created a company and issued the same number of shares as the max coin supply, those shares would technically be in your name on the documents held by Companies House, but you would want masternodes to have effective ownership.

Even if the client / blockchain says how the ownership is divided, they would still be in your name according to the books.

* The client could handle loans in BTC, but it can't deal with fiat. That needs the blockchain to generate an transaction log for someone to then sit at a computer and execute the deals. I'm sure there could be some level of automation (exchanges do this stuff all the time).

Have you ever looked at https://github.com/Coinffeine? They built a working BTC <> Fiat decentralized exchange, but decided to go down the closed source route because of funding they got from banks.

There does seem to be quite a bit of work needed on the GUI side.  But if the services are there, then its mostly about thinking how non-crypto users can interact with BCR (and slowly become crypto users).

[thelonecrouton]

Masternodes being allocated real shares in a real organisation / company.

Wow.

I'm lovin it.

Every time a masternode is created, the shares are split according to the number of shares in issue. You don't actually need to physically issue any shares to anyone - the BCR organisation can hold them and vote them in trust for Masternodes.

Running a masternode just gives you the rights to vote the number of shares and get the benefit of the dividends.

That way, the DAPP can run on pretty much standard company law and voting principles, which are well established. And if the company were to ever be floated on a stock exchange - bloody hell. World first, incoming.

Can BCR itself not be viewed as shares? 1 BCR = 1 share. Really the block reward each block is in principle no different to an ongoing share allocation process.

And I don't think BCR's native matketcap needs to be a limiting factor. Lender establishes blockchain asset, operates whatever business they like via BCR's chain. BCR infrastructure just hooks up lenders/borrowers etc. BCR 'shareholders' get their proportional cut of whatever the network charges for asset hosting.

An easy way of doing BTC/BCR exchange in-wallet would be to have a Buy BCR Now BTC address in addition to the existing bidding address. BTC sent to that address get added to the backing fund, and the buyer gets a chunk of freshly minted BCR (subtracted from the eventual total mintage) in the next block @ for example current market price + 10%. Or have a sliding scale, or do a quick calc of what X BCR would cost if bought via exchange then add some margin for saving the buyer the hassle. Most of the code to achieve this is already there.

[coins101]

...
Can BCR itself not be viewed as shares? 1 BCR = 1 share. Really the block reward each block is in principle no different to an ongoing share allocation process.
..

Not yet.

Companies House (the UK version or any version around the world) won't recognize the currency units as shares.


Maxcoin supply and issuing a similar number of shares in a company will achieve what is required. Then its just about creating a legal document between the network and who the shares are listed against on paper.  The document can be really simple:

Code:

I hold these shares on trust for masternodes on the BCR network. The shares are divided equally by the number of masternodes on the network. 

Masternodes can vote their shares and receive dividends against them, for as long as a masternode is on the BCR network. 

Consideration for this to take effect is 0.0001 BCR for each masternode.

Wow. That's an international corporation, whose shares are listed in the UK. All you need to become a shareholder (well, you never actually become a shareholder, you just have the benefits of voting and dividends) is a masternode.

[bitcreditscc]

...
Can BCR itself not be viewed as shares? 1 BCR = 1 share. Really the block reward each block is in principle no different to an ongoing share allocation process.
..

Not yet.

Companies House (the UK version or any version around the world) won't recognize the currency units as shares.


Maxcoin supply and issuing a similar number of shares in a company will achieve what is required. Then its just about creating a legal document between the network and who the shares are listed against on paper.  The document can be really simple:

Code:

I hold these shares on trust for masternodes on the BCR network. The shares are divided equally by the number of masternodes on the network. 

Masternodes can vote their shares and receive dividends against them, for as long as a masternode is on the BCR network. 

Consideration for this to take effect is 0.0001 BCR for each masternode.

Wow. That's an international corporation, whose shares are listed in the UK. All you need to become a shareholder is a masternode.

I like this idea, we can mix it with tlc's

However i have a question....shall we make it such that the collateral to start a Bn is burnt? As you have seen in the client, we are capable of providing real-time monetary stats on demand.

This sits beautifully with the concept of unlimited money supply, new money is introduced at a calculated steady rate, while a lot is converted from coin to infrastructure, creating the possibility of a true economy

[coins101]

...
Can BCR itself not be viewed as shares? 1 BCR = 1 share. Really the block reward each block is in principle no different to an ongoing share allocation process.
..

Not yet.

Companies House (the UK version or any version around the world) won't recognize the currency units as shares.


Maxcoin supply and issuing a similar number of shares in a company will achieve what is required. Then its just about creating a legal document between the network and who the shares are listed against on paper.  The document can be really simple:

Code:

I hold these shares on trust for masternodes on the BCR network. The shares are divided equally by the number of masternodes on the network. 

Masternodes can vote their shares and receive dividends against them, for as long as a masternode is on the BCR network. 

Consideration for this to take effect is 0.0001 BCR for each masternode.

Wow. That's an international corporation, whose shares are listed in the UK. All you need to become a shareholder is a masternode.

I like this idea, we can mix it with tlc's

However i have a question....shall we make it such that the collateral to start a Bn is burnt? As you have seen in the client, we are capable of providing real-time monetary stats on demand.

This sits beautifully with the concept of unlimited money supply, new money is introduced at a calculated steady rate, while a lot is converted from coin to infrastructure, creating the possibility of a true economy

I learned this the hard way, so it's what I think should be done.

* Tick the regulatory boxes.
* Tick the KISS users experience boxes.

Everything else is down to what BCR community wants.

To get recognised by the peer-to-peer associations that we should be looking to join, we need all the things I posted recently, which includes: a real company, a bank account, the various annual reports, KYC and a strategy for chasing non-paying borrowers.

[coins101]

..

And I don't think BCR's native matketcap needs to be a limiting factor. Lender establishes blockchain asset, operates whatever business they like via BCR's chain. BCR infrastructure just hooks up lenders/borrowers etc. BCR 'shareholders' get their proportional cut of whatever the network charges for asset hosting.
..

Nice idea.

In the same way that banks have jumped on the blockchain train, you might get a situation where BCR becomes a model that existing peer-to-peer firms want to copy. In that instance, the BCR company can charge consulting fees and then charge again for migrating into BCR - from which masternodes get paid a proportion, I guess.