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RodeoX
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September 27, 2013, 01:49:33 PM
 #101

I'm excited to see the prices on the plans offered by Obama care. I'll report back later in the week; after Oct. 1.

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September 27, 2013, 06:29:44 PM
 #102

I'm excited to see the prices on the plans offered by Obama care. I'll report back later in the week; after Oct. 1.

Don't forget to ask about the out of pocket deductible and maximum out of pocket annual limit.  Those are the numbers that I'd be most interested it.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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September 27, 2013, 06:37:52 PM
 #103

It is good that Dear Leader Obama is forcing the American people to buy health insurance.

I would not want to be served food by a cook or a waiter who doesn't have health insurance when on vacation in USA.
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September 27, 2013, 06:38:17 PM
 #104

I'm excited to see the prices on the plans offered by Obama care. I'll report back later in the week; after Oct. 1.

Don't forget to ask about the out of pocket deductible and maximum out of pocket annual limit.  Those are the numbers that I'd be most interested it.
Ditto on the prices. The "gold" plans are like a third the cost of the "bronze" plans the company I work for charges us now so my healthcare costs under the program will decrease by 60% if it all stays true. Yes, I've considered all the factors besides just premiums.  Or are you being sarcastic?

I find the US corporate response to all of this to be intriguing.  Their rhetoric is that Obamacare is pure evil but their actions indicate they are extremely excited to dump their employees into the program.  Their actions are virtually guaranteeing a full goverment takeover of healthcare in the US.
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September 27, 2013, 07:11:10 PM
 #105

I don't know what I'm going to find out. My simple plan is to compare coverage and price, and I am only interested in saving money. Let's see what they have. 

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RoadToHell
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September 27, 2013, 08:01:34 PM
 #106

I find the US corporate response to all of this to be intriguing.  Their rhetoric is that Obamacare is pure evil but their actions indicate they are extremely excited to dump their employees into the program.  Their actions are virtually guaranteeing a full goverment takeover of healthcare in the US.
The companies certainly aren't dumping their employees into the exchanges because they think it is good for the employees.  It is much more expensive for them to cover the employee with a qualifying plan than it is to pay the fine of a few thousand dollars per employee.  Jobs with low entry skill requirements in low margin industries are the ones being hit hardest by this trend.  Jobs with higher requirements aren't as vulnerable since the employers are using the insurance benefit as a recruiting tool.  Prior to passage of the law, critics of the bill that predicted this behavior were accused of using scare tactics to defeat the bill.

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September 27, 2013, 08:17:11 PM
 #107

Ditto on the prices. The "gold" plans are like a third the cost of the "bronze" plans the company I work for charges us now so my healthcare costs under the program will decrease by 60% if it all stays true. Yes, I've considered all the factors besides just premiums.  Or are you being sarcastic?

Of course I was being sarcastic.  I know that there is no such thing as an out of pocket maximum under the individual market section of the Affordable Care Act.  Those kinds of requirements only apply to employer sponsored plans.

Quote
I find the US corporate response to all of this to be intriguing.  Their rhetoric is that Obamacare is pure evil but their actions indicate they are extremely excited to dump their employees into the program.  Their actions are virtually guaranteeing a full goverment takeover of healthcare in the US.

Your primary motivation is noted in my prior paragraph.  BTW, I just checked my paystub for what I pay.  I pay $1.21 per week for a family plan (I have five kids) that pays 80% on everything after the first $2500 (annual deductable) and has an annual out of pocket maximum of $6500. (pays 100% of expenses after I've paid $9000 total in a year, $2500 + $6500)  I have a 'health savings account' attached to it in order to pay for the deductable and out of pocket expenses that I contribute $124.04 per week into.  I hit that max out of pocket every year with five kids, and all total it's still cheaper than the "regular" plan, and if I ever don't hit that max in a year, I keep the difference for health care in my retirement years.

Under the Affordable Care Act, this plan is illegal.  AT a minimum, I'd be taxed an additional $3K or so as a "gold" plan.  I'd be curious if you can find anything of comparable value for my family.  Note, however, that there is no way that I'd be eligible for any kind of subsidy.

EDIT: A regular plan (instead of the HSA/high deductable plan that I use) at my workplace would certainly be a more predictable expense, but the annual costs for me would be closer to $10,500 based on prior years.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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September 27, 2013, 10:11:11 PM
 #108

Ditto on the prices. The "gold" plans are like a third the cost of the "bronze" plans the company I work for charges us now so my healthcare costs under the program will decrease by 60% if it all stays true. Yes, I've considered all the factors besides just premiums.  Or are you being sarcastic?

Of course I was being sarcastic.  I know that there is no such thing as an out of pocket maximum under the individual market section of the Affordable Care Act.  Those kinds of requirements only apply to employer sponsored plans.

Quote
I find the US corporate response to all of this to be intriguing.  Their rhetoric is that Obamacare is pure evil but their actions indicate they are extremely excited to dump their employees into the program.  Their actions are virtually guaranteeing a full goverment takeover of healthcare in the US.

Your primary motivation is noted in my prior paragraph.  BTW, I just checked my paystub for what I pay.  I pay $1.21 per week for a family plan (I have five kids) that pays 80% on everything after the first $2500 (annual deductable) and has an annual out of pocket maximum of $6500. (pays 100% of expenses after I've paid $9000 total in a year, $2500 + $6500)  I have a 'health savings account' attached to it in order to pay for the deductable and out of pocket expenses that I contribute $124.04 per week into.  I hit that max out of pocket every year with five kids, and all total it's still cheaper than the "regular" plan, and if I ever don't hit that max in a year, I keep the difference for health care in my retirement years.

Under the Affordable Care Act, this plan is illegal.  AT a minimum, I'd be taxed an additional $3K or so as a "gold" plan.  I'd be curious if you can find anything of comparable value for my family.  Note, however, that there is no way that I'd be eligible for any kind of subsidy.

EDIT: A regular plan (instead of the HSA/high deductable plan that I use) at my workplace would certainly be a more predictable expense, but the annual costs for me would be closer to $10,500 based on prior years.

Given that the country is already spending 40% more than it takes in, said country would only shoulder additional cost burdens to buy votes.  Nothing is real - least of all the attempt by a struggling individual to estimate his costs and/or his best avenue. 

Frankly I have no sympathy for the people that buy into attempting rational discussion around these types of scams.   You are discussing the brand and nuances of the lipstick on the pig.

 The dollar will shrink in value with each year, retirement plans will shrink in value, savings will get 0% interest and will shrink in value.  The wealth of the middle class will get "Hollowed Out" through money printing and increased taxes.  Every vehicle of fiduciary management operated by banks will be shifted to help in this process.

Yes I am talking IRA, SEP, 401K, trust plans, money market accounts.

Wise up people.

scarsbergholden
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September 28, 2013, 01:46:13 AM
 #109

I think this will be a cluster**** when it comes to enforcement of the individual mandate. I know lots of people, mostly younger, who don't and won't have coverage. But how will they even enforce it? What will be adequate notification, and what kind of databases could possibly capture even most people? I think when they start dropping fees on people, there will be a big Supreme Court case....  Wink

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September 28, 2013, 02:09:21 AM
 #110

....I personally believe if enough people beginning using bit coins, tax revenue will plummet.....

So bit coin would destroy any socialistic health plan through cutting it's funding off.

I wonder how many bitcoin advocates would like that outcome?
ronimacarroni
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September 28, 2013, 02:34:00 AM
 #111

obamacare? more like vampirecare.
Politicians want to suck the income of young healthy people like ticks.
Along with college debt, shrinking income/saving due to inflation and our future tax that we will have to pay for the national debt.
And yet this generation buys into the whole enlightened social democrat who don't need no materialism.
We're the sucker generation.
scarsbergholden
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September 28, 2013, 04:21:11 AM
 #112

We're the sucker generation.

You can say that again!  Undecided

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September 28, 2013, 12:59:04 PM
 #113

We're the sucker generation.

You can say that again!  Undecided
The reason the bill has so many uncertainties and illogical aspects is because it was passed as an incomplete piece of legislation and never went back to committee.

They will try to iron out these problems through fiat, whether it is legal or not.  Executive orders and mandates by the new agencies, plus the thug power of the IRS will be the standard, not the exception.  This is necessary because the bill was not completed.

Part of that will be forcing of young people to pay.  Another part will be forcing the many, many companies who are using 32 hour workweeks to avoid Obamacare costs to enter the system.

The enforcement agency used will be the IRS.  It won't be pretty.

The conservative Republicans, the Tea Party and others are not going to quit fighting this thing and it deserves to be fought.
hayek
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September 30, 2013, 03:49:14 PM
 #114

It's complete and utter bullshit.

There is no argument.
Bitware
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September 30, 2013, 08:49:31 PM
 #115

It's another nail in the coffin constructed for Liberty.... or is it the last shovel-full of soil covering the coffin...
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September 30, 2013, 09:14:56 PM
 #116

Shutdown or not, Obamacare begins in six hours.  Even the deliberate removal of the funding from the "budget" wouldn't matter.  They haven't passed a budget in five years, so I don't know why it would matter now anyway.  Go sign up for your doctor hunting license, and see if you can catch one when you need one.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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October 01, 2013, 02:07:15 AM
 #117

Regardless where you stand on the issue, costs seem to be coming down and in a big way.  In addition, more coverage for more people equals less emergency room visits, which drives up the costs of healthcare drastically. And since healthcare is the number one driver of national debt, this is a huge win for those that want to see the national debt reduced.  Sure, it's not the single payer I would have preferred.  (You have to have competent people in Congress to actually do something that smart) But, it is certainly better than the status quo. Also, the fact that millions of people who couldn't afford insurance or couldn't get it due to preexisting conditions, will now be covered, is a HUGE win for humanity.  Healthcare is a basic human necessity.  Like food, shelter, air and water.  

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October 01, 2013, 02:42:28 AM
 #118

Regardless where you stand on the issue, costs seem to be coming down and in a big way.  In addition, more coverage for more people equals less emergency room visits, which drives up the costs of healthcare drastically. And since healthcare is the number one driver of national debt, this is a huge win for those that want to see the national debt reduced.  Sure, it's not the single payer I would have preferred.  (You have to have competent people in Congress to actually do something that smart) But, it is certainly better than the status quo. Also, the fact that millions of people who couldn't afford insurance or couldn't get it due to preexisting conditions, will now be covered, is a HUGE win for humanity.  Healthcare is a basic human necessity.  Like food, shelter, air and water.  

Costs continue to skyrocket. Overall ours have raised between 200% and 300% since pre-Obamacare being voted into unconstitutional law.

The status quo is you work or you die on this rock, because contrary to popular opinion, human necessities are not human rights, unless you  can show me the food, water, shelter, and healthcare fairies that come at night.

Someone has to do the work and pay the bills to the private bankers printing and selling our debt to us.

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October 01, 2013, 03:52:58 AM
 #119

Obamacare cannot eliminate trauma, poisoning, etc, which is what emergency rooms should be for only, not high blood pressure, mental illness, and other chronic shit that apparently no fucking MD in the world can actually fix.

I'm opting out of forced malpractice.

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October 01, 2013, 04:30:58 AM
 #120

Regardless where you stand on the issue, costs seem to be coming down and in a big way.  In addition, more coverage for more people equals less emergency room visits, which drives up the costs of healthcare drastically. And since healthcare is the number one driver of national debt, this is a huge win for those that want to see the national debt reduced.  Sure, it's not the single payer I would have preferred.  (You have to have competent people in Congress to actually do something that smart) But, it is certainly better than the status quo. Also, the fact that millions of people who couldn't afford insurance or couldn't get it due to preexisting conditions, will now be covered, is a HUGE win for humanity.  Healthcare is a basic human necessity.  Like food, shelter, air and water.  

Costs continue to skyrocket. Overall ours have raised between 200% and 300% since pre-Obamacare being voted into unconstitutional law.

The status quo is you work or you die on this rock, because contrary to popular opinion, human necessities are not human rights, unless you  can show me the food, water, shelter, and healthcare fairies that come at night.

Someone has to do the work and pay the bills to the private bankers printing and selling our debt to us.



I stopped reading at "unconstitutional".  Living in denial are we?   Roll Eyes

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