Videos of WoodCollector Hand Carving: Care of MOB

[jonald_fyookball]

I would say that even if it were carved with a laser with an initial imprint then it would not be the scam that this is being made out to be. 

Perhaps not... but WC sabotaged himself and
create a scandal by fervently denying it was
anything but "hand carved"... and that's when
everyone pounced on him and called BS.

[Quickseller]

I would say that even if it were carved with a laser with an initial imprint then it would not be the scam that this is being made out to be. 

Perhaps not... but WC sabotaged himself and
create a scandal by fervently denying it was
anything but "hand carved"... and that's when
everyone pounced on him and called BS.

I agree that WC reacted very poorly throughout this fiasco however I think it was really nubbins that was leading the mob against him.

[BG4]

You obviously do not think it is possible to carve that kind of detail without having some kind of reference do you? I would say that burning a sketch of what he is to carve into the wood would not take away from the fact that he was hand carving his pieces.

Reference is one thing as I assume would be done via carbon paper.

Smoothie made the point earlier here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=935115.msg10252734#msg10252734
...that this was likely not done by carbon paper,
but appears to have some depth to it.  

Take a look at the image Smoothie attached.  You can see that
it's already been carved up to the edge.  Seems to me that all WC is really
doing is removing more wood that surrounds the pre-made groove... with
some kind of tool.

Do you really consider that "hand carving" ?

To be honest, I have no idea. I really do not know that much about wood to say one way or another. I would say that even if it were carved with a laser with an initial imprint then it would not be the scam that this is being made out to be. Without being able to touch the piece I really cannot even say with certainty if the piece is carved or is just burned as of the picture that smoothie attached.

Then why are you getting involved.....Your perception is also questionable.....

[stingleword]

I've been eyeing WoodCollector's work for some time, and have considered purchasing a piece, but I won't and here's why:

1) The works are advertised as "hand-carved" and this video is described as "hand carving". This is not hand carving. You use handheld power tools; therefore this is hand crafting. You also explicitly stated that you did work with a hand-guided router. That's a fabrication machine, not a powered hand tool. It's been on a fabrication table; therefore, it's a mechanically fabricated work even if all the machining was done by hand. Misrepresenting your work as hand-carved is an attempt to overprice it. You could argue that it is still hand-crafted and possibly win the argument, but there is no way this work could be called "hand carving". (Disagree? Ask an Amish woodworker that actually does hand-carve everything.)

2) Professional carpenters never, ever, EVER smoke in the shop. It's an incredible fire hazard as well as a personal danger since stimulants can increase the risk of slippage on a power tool. My father was an avid chain smoker and would never allow tobacco in his work area. Not only are there safety issues, but tobacco smoke has a deleterious effect on unfinished wood including staining it and imparting the odor. Nothing ruins the smell of fresh wood cuttings quite like tobacco smoke, and it never goes away.

WoodCollector is not an unskilled nobody. He does show knowledge of the craft in this video. However, this is not hand carving and these pieces are made with fabrication tools. The prices quoted for the work are appropriate for hand carved work but overpriced for what the pieces really are.

I have respect for the art of woodworking; it takes a level of skill that I don't have. What is being done to produce these pieces is not hand carving, it is fabrication using power tools and table machines. Advertising these pieces as 'hand-carved' is absolutely wrong and is the only detriment to what I would consider otherwise quality craftsmanship.

As far as the other accusations leveled here, I find them all laughable. The cruel irony here is this could have all been avoided had the work simply been advertised as "hand crafted from machined stock", a phrase that accurately describes the nubbins plaque and probably the rest of the work as well.

[Quickseller]

You obviously do not think it is possible to carve that kind of detail without having some kind of reference do you? I would say that burning a sketch of what he is to carve into the wood would not take away from the fact that he was hand carving his pieces.

Reference is one thing as I assume would be done via carbon paper.

Smoothie made the point earlier here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=935115.msg10252734#msg10252734
...that this was likely not done by carbon paper,
but appears to have some depth to it.  

Take a look at the image Smoothie attached.  You can see that
it's already been carved up to the edge.  Seems to me that all WC is really
doing is removing more wood that surrounds the pre-made groove... with
some kind of tool.

Do you really consider that "hand carving" ?

To be honest, I have no idea. I really do not know that much about wood to say one way or another. I would say that even if it were carved with a laser with an initial imprint then it would not be the scam that this is being made out to be. Without being able to touch the piece I really cannot even say with certainty if the piece is carved or is just burned as of the picture that smoothie attached.

Then why are you getting involved.....Your perception is also questionable.....

Okay, I am fairly certain that most people that are posting on here do not know any more about wood then I do, but I at least admit as much.

I have the same right to get involved as anyone else here does.

It seems like anyone who disagrees with nubbins' has been labeled a scammer

[SodaWarz]

You obviously do not think it is possible to carve that kind of detail without having some kind of reference do you? I would say that burning a sketch of what he is to carve into the wood would not take away from the fact that he was hand carving his pieces.

Reference is one thing as I assume would be done via carbon paper.

Smoothie made the point earlier here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=935115.msg10252734#msg10252734
...that this was likely not done by carbon paper,
but appears to have some depth to it.  

Take a look at the image Smoothie attached.  You can see that
it's already been carved up to the edge.  Seems to me that all WC is really
doing is removing more wood that surrounds the pre-made groove... with
some kind of tool.

Do you really consider that "hand carving" ?

Nope, not done by carbon paper, although that is normally the method of choice for most wood carvers, it was very clear to see he knew what he was doing as carbon will not adhere in the slightest bit to Mahogany most times because if you look at the end grain under a microscope it have very tight closed up poors. Most times you smear and mess up the carbon trace just from removing the carbon sheet. Instead he clearly attached a printout on paper to the wood with glue then traced it out with his router. Then used either a planer, or large joiner to remove the rest of the paper as can be seen by the chatter marks left on the wood where the glue left tear out.

I cant find the exact post, but i know he said not too long ago. "how hard do you really think it is to cut around the lines? i think they teach that in grade school with crayons"

His mastery of the skill comes not from his ability to "cut around the lines" but in that he can from start to finish carve on some of the most difficult woods in the world to work with. Wood that 80% of your so called "master carvers" as they claim on youtube and the woodworking forums would not touch in a hundred years because it takes some serious talent to carve them.

A few more details all of you "masters of making things with wood" are missing.

When carving on hard woods, the only way to do it is to work backwards, With most common carving woods like basswood, you can jump right in with the chisels and get to work. Once you have removed all the bulk material you come in with a dremmel and do the detail work and fine edges.... With hard wood you cannot do this, hardwood is dense and has tight grain. going at it with a chisel is going to cause it to splinter and break off all your detail lines before you can get them cut out. With hardwood, like this piece of Mahogany he is carving is, you have to first cut the relief around all your detail sections to ensure that when you are chiseling that you don't gouge, tear, or splinter places where there are suppose to be fine detail.

Let me just disclose right now before it becomes another piss poor attempt at furthering this witch hunt. I am a carpenter, did it all through college. I make wood things too. I even carve wood, Basswood, Pine, Birch, all the common carving woods. Its really not that hard to do at all. I recently made a coffee table out of Amboyna Burl and Rosewood, 2 very hard woods. Burls are the worst, actually almost impossible to carve. With my now 5 years of carving experience, I wont touch it, i want a design carved into the table top, but would not dream in my wildest dreams of touching that table with a dremmel or a chisel. So i sent the design (guess what i am using images bought from graphic driver) to WC to review, and he very happily agreed to do it for me. It may not mean shit to you lowlifes, but i am honored to have a true master artisan wood carver work on a piece for me. There is no way that 90% of even skilled carvers could do it, and any that attempt it would do nothing more than mess up the piece. Anyways, to summarize. YES I AM A CLIENT OF WC'S, YES I HAVE SPENT MONEY WITH HIM, and NO I AM NOT A SHILL,  i am a man with a brain able to use reason and common sense.

[jonald_fyookball]

The cruel irony here is this could have all been avoided had the work simply been advertised as "hand crafted from machined stock", a phrase that accurately describes the nubbins plaque and probably the rest of the work as well.

I think if WC agreed to use this label from now on, and refunded those customers
who were unhappy because of this scandal, he would win a lot of respect
(mine included), despite all the foolishness that has occurred so far.

[Superhitech]

The cruel irony here is this could have all been avoided had the work simply been advertised as "hand crafted from machined stock", a phrase that accurately describes the nubbins plaque and probably the rest of the work as well.

I think if WC agreed to use this label from now on, and refunded those customers
who were unhappy because of this scandal, he would win a lot of respect
(mine included), despite all the foolishness that has occurred so far.

I agree. Also, he has many satisfied customers already, such as BlazedOut, and his works are very nice, even if there were "hand crafted from machined stock"

Question: Is the value of the art worth less if it was "hand crafted from machined stock" instead of "hand carved?"

[BG4]

You obviously do not think it is possible to carve that kind of detail without having some kind of reference do you? I would say that burning a sketch of what he is to carve into the wood would not take away from the fact that he was hand carving his pieces.

Reference is one thing as I assume would be done via carbon paper.

Smoothie made the point earlier here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=935115.msg10252734#msg10252734
...that this was likely not done by carbon paper,
but appears to have some depth to it.  

Take a look at the image Smoothie attached.  You can see that
it's already been carved up to the edge.  Seems to me that all WC is really
doing is removing more wood that surrounds the pre-made groove... with
some kind of tool.

Do you really consider that "hand carving" ?

To be honest, I have no idea. I really do not know that much about wood to say one way or another. I would say that even if it were carved with a laser with an initial imprint then it would not be the scam that this is being made out to be. Without being able to touch the piece I really cannot even say with certainty if the piece is carved or is just burned as of the picture that smoothie attached.

Then why are you getting involved.....Your perception is also questionable.....

Okay, I am fairly certain that most people that are posting on here do not know any more about wood then I do, but I at least admit as much.

I have the same right to get involved as anyone else here does.

It seems like anyone who disagrees with nubbins' has been labeled a scammer

I have proved 90% of the evidence against woodcollectors scheme...I have found almost every vector art he has used from the internet.....which was supposed to be original from his own mind.. He has not used or doesnt have a laser...I have proved that he indeed wanted a laser and wanted build one..  I can go on and on with the evidence I have shown.... make up your own mind by rereading all the facts.....

Would you trust woodcollector with everthing you have seen and read....then please send coins to 1LatheNNRsWhSZBcFvXpkZd1P3Wz4yA3Vz( woodcollectors Lathe funds)  and see if he will send them back.... I know I wouldnt!!!  

[Quickseller]

I have proved 90% of the evidence against woodcollectors scheme...I have found almost every vector art he has used from the internet.....which was supposed to be original from his own mind.. He has not used or doesnt have a laser...I have proved that he indeed wanted a laser and wanted build one..  I can go on and on with the evidence I have shown.... make up your own mind by rereading all the facts.....

I don't see how anyone would expect the art to be original from his own mind when his customers were giving him an outline of what they wanted. Even in the times that WC used pictures that he owned the license to, he still made chances to the actual design and would still be original. Just because he wanted to build a laser does not mean that he was using it on the pieces that he sold (or even that he actually built it).

Would you trust woodcollector with everthing you have seen and read....then please send coins to 1LatheNNRsWhSZBcFvXpkZd1P3Wz4yA3Vz( woodcollectors Lathe funds)  and see if he will send them back.... I know I wouldnt!!!   

No I do not trust everything that WC says, nor do I trust what most of the people have said in any of the threads. Even if I did trust what he says it would be stupid to randomly send funds to him without some kind of prior arrangement for him to send them back. You suggesting that I do this is nothing more then an attempt to distract the argument

[BG4]

I have proved 90% of the evidence against woodcollectors scheme...I have found almost every vector art he has used from the internet.....which was supposed to be original from his own mind.. He has not used or doesnt have a laser...I have proved that he indeed wanted a laser and wanted build one..  I can go on and on with the evidence I have shown.... make up your own mind by rereading all the facts.....

I don't see how anyone would expect the art to be original from his own mind when his customers were giving him an outline of what they wanted. Even in the times that WC used pictures that he owned the license to, he still made chances to the actual design and would still be original. Just because he wanted to build a laser does not mean that he was using it on the pieces that he sold (or even that he actually built it).

Would you trust woodcollector with everthing you have seen and read....then please send coins to 1LatheNNRsWhSZBcFvXpkZd1P3Wz4yA3Vz( woodcollectors Lathe funds)  and see if he will send them back.... I know I wouldnt!!!   

No I do not trust everything that WC says, nor do I trust what most of the people have said in any of the threads. Even if I did trust what he says it would be stupid to randomly send funds to him without some kind of prior arrangement for him to send them back. You suggesting that I do this is nothing more then an attempt to distract the argument

You need to take some time and go back and reread....

[BG4]

I have proved 90% of the evidence against woodcollectors scheme...I have found almost every vector art he has used from the internet.....which was supposed to be original from his own mind.. He has not used or doesnt have a laser...I have proved that he indeed wanted a laser and wanted build one..  I can go on and on with the evidence I have shown.... make up your own mind by rereading all the facts.....

I don't see how anyone would expect the art to be original from his own mind when his customers were giving him an outline of what they wanted. Even in the times that WC used pictures that he owned the license to, he still made chances to the actual design and would still be original. Just because he wanted to build a laser does not mean that he was using it on the pieces that he sold (or even that he actually built it).

Would you trust woodcollector with everthing you have seen and read....then please send coins to 1LatheNNRsWhSZBcFvXpkZd1P3Wz4yA3Vz( woodcollectors Lathe funds)  and see if he will send them back.... I know I wouldnt!!!  

No I do not trust everything that WC says, nor do I trust what most of the people have said in any of the threads. Even if I did trust what he says it would be stupid to randomly send funds to him without some kind of prior arrangement for him to send them back. You suggesting that I do this is nothing more then an attempt to distract the argument

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=930649.0

start here and anytime you see terrahasher , ukcrypto and sodawars.  consider them as sock puppets........

EDIT...

add ..  michaeladair in to the sock drawer too. just because what he has in his profile under his name

[Quickseller]

I have proved 90% of the evidence against woodcollectors scheme...I have found almost every vector art he has used from the internet.....which was supposed to be original from his own mind.. He has not used or doesnt have a laser...I have proved that he indeed wanted a laser and wanted build one..  I can go on and on with the evidence I have shown.... make up your own mind by rereading all the facts.....

I don't see how anyone would expect the art to be original from his own mind when his customers were giving him an outline of what they wanted. Even in the times that WC used pictures that he owned the license to, he still made chances to the actual design and would still be original. Just because he wanted to build a laser does not mean that he was using it on the pieces that he sold (or even that he actually built it).

Would you trust woodcollector with everthing you have seen and read....then please send coins to 1LatheNNRsWhSZBcFvXpkZd1P3Wz4yA3Vz( woodcollectors Lathe funds)  and see if he will send them back.... I know I wouldnt!!!   

No I do not trust everything that WC says, nor do I trust what most of the people have said in any of the threads. Even if I did trust what he says it would be stupid to randomly send funds to him without some kind of prior arrangement for him to send them back. You suggesting that I do this is nothing more then an attempt to distract the argument

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=930649.0

start here and anytime you see terrahasher , ukcrypto and sodawars.  consider them as sock puppets........

I have read the thread previously. Although I agree that they are probably socks of WC, such fact has not been proven. As I have mentioned previously it is possible they are socks of some other party who is trying to make WC look bad by making it obvious they are socks and are supporting him.

[SodaWarz]

Would you trust woodcollector with everthing you have seen and read....then please send coins to 1LatheNNRsWhSZBcFvXpkZd1P3Wz4yA3Vz( woodcollectors Lathe funds)  and see if he will send them back.... I know I wouldnt!!!  

Oh yes, lets all send bitcoin to a guys "tip address" without telling him that we are expecting to have the funds sent back, further lets waste more of his time by creating yet another chore for him to take care of in sending all those coins back to people when he didnt ask for "must be refunded" donations to his tip address. If anything he should keep every dang satoshi sent to that address as payment for all the time of his this idiot mob has wasted.

Go Ahead BG4, send him some bitcoin, prove you are not just trying to distract from the fact that your antics as part of this mob have been called out publicly. Cant say for sure, but i'd be willing to bet that even though you do not deserve it, if you asked professionally and told him you made a mistake that he would probably send them back to you anyways.

[ElectricMucus]

On the basis of his sockpuppets WoodCollector seems to know a little bit about working with wood.
Which makes his scam all the lot worse, if he knows how much work it is to make something using manual labor, him selling cnc machined stuff requires a certain mindset.

oh well.
I'll sit back and grab some popcorn.

[BG4]

I have proved 90% of the evidence against woodcollectors scheme...I have found almost every vector art he has used from the internet.....which was supposed to be original from his own mind.. He has not used or doesnt have a laser...I have proved that he indeed wanted a laser and wanted build one..  I can go on and on with the evidence I have shown.... make up your own mind by rereading all the facts.....

I don't see how anyone would expect the art to be original from his own mind when his customers were giving him an outline of what they wanted. Even in the times that WC used pictures that he owned the license to, he still made chances to the actual design and would still be original. Just because he wanted to build a laser does not mean that he was using it on the pieces that he sold (or even that he actually built it).

Would you trust woodcollector with everthing you have seen and read....then please send coins to 1LatheNNRsWhSZBcFvXpkZd1P3Wz4yA3Vz( woodcollectors Lathe funds)  and see if he will send them back.... I know I wouldnt!!!   

No I do not trust everything that WC says, nor do I trust what most of the people have said in any of the threads. Even if I did trust what he says it would be stupid to randomly send funds to him without some kind of prior arrangement for him to send them back. You suggesting that I do this is nothing more then an attempt to distract the argument

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=930649.0

start here and anytime you see terrahasher , ukcrypto and sodawars.  consider them as sock puppets........

I have read the thread previously. Although I agree that they are probably socks of WC, such fact has not been proven. As I have mentioned previously it is possible they are socks of some other party who is trying to make WC look bad by making it obvious they are socks and are supporting him.

Gee , I have never considered that , that may be possible... but this doesn't seem to be so early on with woodcollectors interactions with them...

Your perception is in error, your oversite is forgiven...

[Mitchell]

I have no idea what you all are arguing about, because the point that nuggins wanted to make has been made. He had something against WC, because he advertised his items as hand carved, even though they weren't. This is fraud and the uploaded video has proven that. WC doesn't hand carve, he uses machines and tools other than his hands. His pieces are amazing and I would have bought one if they were cheaper, but saying that something is hand carved even though it isn't tells me that there is something wrong with his morals.

That's all I gotta say about this. Enjoy arguing each other to death.

[Quickseller]

I have proved 90% of the evidence against woodcollectors scheme...I have found almost every vector art he has used from the internet.....which was supposed to be original from his own mind.. He has not used or doesnt have a laser...I have proved that he indeed wanted a laser and wanted build one..  I can go on and on with the evidence I have shown.... make up your own mind by rereading all the facts.....

I don't see how anyone would expect the art to be original from his own mind when his customers were giving him an outline of what they wanted. Even in the times that WC used pictures that he owned the license to, he still made chances to the actual design and would still be original. Just because he wanted to build a laser does not mean that he was using it on the pieces that he sold (or even that he actually built it).

Would you trust woodcollector with everthing you have seen and read....then please send coins to 1LatheNNRsWhSZBcFvXpkZd1P3Wz4yA3Vz( woodcollectors Lathe funds)  and see if he will send them back.... I know I wouldnt!!!   

No I do not trust everything that WC says, nor do I trust what most of the people have said in any of the threads. Even if I did trust what he says it would be stupid to randomly send funds to him without some kind of prior arrangement for him to send them back. You suggesting that I do this is nothing more then an attempt to distract the argument

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=930649.0

start here and anytime you see terrahasher , ukcrypto and sodawars.  consider them as sock puppets........

I have read the thread previously. Although I agree that they are probably socks of WC, such fact has not been proven. As I have mentioned previously it is possible they are socks of some other party who is trying to make WC look bad by making it obvious they are socks and are supporting him.

Gee , I have never considered that , that may be possible... but this doesn't seem to be so early on with woodcollectors interactions with them...

Your perception is in error, your oversite is forgiven...

Out of the 84 posts that you have made, your last 42 of them (50%) were made in a WC thread. Two of your posts were in altcoin threads prior to those 42 posts. Prior to that, your last post was made in April 2014. Are you sure you are not a sock of nubbins?

[haploid23]

WOW how anticlimactic. Over an hour to do the "N", which was already pre-done. I do SMD soldering in much finer details than what's shown in that video. Really, the video had the opposite effect than what it was suppose to prove. It's the final nail in your coffin...

All these woodcollector threads serve no more purpose.

[smoothie]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BghA6ngN54U

this video clearly shows a seasoned artist at his wood turning craft......Please take notice of the tool he is using ... take notes of the large handle for maximum leverage because he has been doing this for many years... also take note to the color of the chisel it self. the metal is a seasoned patina and a handle that has been held many hours... a true artist...




clearly a brand new set of the wrong size....a seasoned wood turner would know this.....these look like the were purchased at harbor freight on a budget....at around the same time that the lathe was purchased in december.....   clearly a noob wood worker.....

I love how he put all of the tools into this pic that he DIDN'T use in his video at all.

This is another misrepresentation as he only put those tools into pix back in dec when I was questioning him as well.

Enjoy...where is that electronic tool he started with? Forgive my ignorance as I know nothing about wood carving and its terms and tool names.

But clearly that tool is not in this picture (NOTE THE DATE THIS WAS POSTED...LONG BEFORE ALL OF THIS WAS SPOKEN ABOUT THIS YEAR):

Is this hand carved?

Honestly, no offense it looks like it was laser engraved. I've lasered wood and it looks very similar in nature.

Nice work!!

Hand carved with chisels and worked with a dremmel tool and sandpaper.



No offense taken.

I've seen lasered wood before and it just looks dull to me. It only has 1 real dimension and that's depth. I was looking into getting a laser to speed up the stenciling process but after a day of searching found that any good ones run $20,000 up to $80,000 which is a lot more than i want to spend to save 5 minutes of work of transferring an outline from paper to wood.