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biodieselchris (OP)
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March 01, 2015, 08:19:22 AM |
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After blowing off some steam now I need to do the payout for the renewable producers and I am thinking of continuing to pay GreenCoin for now. A couple of reasons:
- Most of the Producers did not change over to a CO2X address so I would need to make an address for each of them and hold the coins
- The CO2X showed some mining issues on the first day (for example by 8 PM Pacific we only got to block 212 and it should be at 1440 by design, so the producers would be getting short coins).
- I don't have the CO2X Foundation wallet key yet so I would have to make the payout at some point later and do it in arrears. I can pay GRE now.
Certainly it will be difficult to make the official coin switch and then have to unwind it if something goes wrong. I think it might be a good idea to continue to pay old GRE for at least awhile and take this chance to evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of switching versus staying the course:
CO2Xcoin
advantageous:
- Coinbase algo works (still somewhat theoretical, but let's assume it does. If it doesn't a switch is a non-starter)
- New greener algo and PoS (though some people don't seem to like X11)
- Crisp wallet functionality and built in block explorer
disadvantageous:
- No pools or trading yet
- Switching for existing users is challenging (swapping coins, Producers, etc)
- Harder to work a new coin into the grcoin.com website database (still unsure how to do this but will figure it out)
- Small, unstable mining base subject to long block times and possibly a fork
GreenCoin
advantageous:
- merged mined and stable (23 GH/s currently)
- don't have to change the coin name/symbol to a new coin
- there hasn't been much marketing, so it would be easy to switch and/or start over, but what we have done so far would be lost, and "GreenCoin" is superior to "CO2ExchangeCoin" / "CO2Xcoin" IMO in terms of simpleness and elegance, logo etc (open to thoughts on this though).
- Already listed on Bittrex/Allcoin
disadvantageous:
- Biggest one by far is the coinbase transaction was defeated. The Foundation only gets ~400-800k. I have been buying the 600-1000k necessary to bring the coins to "exactly half" of the daily mine since Dec. 4. I could do this since they are so cheap this has been about $600-800 so it hasn't been too bad.
- Huge total coin amount affects price
- "Buggy" wallet doesn't fully sync, needs to be seeded first time it's run
I think in simple terms the two options are just biting the bullet and getting through a full switch over versus staying the course with existing GreenCoin. The switchover to the new coin we've already talked about a lot so I'll just state the case for staying with GreenCoin. First off, I would simply stop "buying" the extra coins to bring it up to half: that is, whatever coins exist in the wallet at 8 PM each night are what get paid out to Producers. This means the miners will be getting ~75% of the coins but is that really so bad? There aren't a lot of producers and the original 50/50 split was always somewhat arbitrary. Couple this with the fact that in the future miners will have to be throttled if the coin grows so they do not represent disproportionate value to the coin and there is a case that eventually a fork to this effect is inevitable in the future. I think staying with GreenCoin makes a some sense because I could begin market it immediately again. If (a big if) the coin was catching on and getting producers signed up I think a development team could be hired at some point in the future that may be able to fork in a solution to the coinbase problem, or, at that point, we make a substantially switchover and re-launch at that time.
So the question really is, do we switch over now when we are small and no one really cares anyways, or in some future scenario when we're potentially much bigger (either fork or switch over)?
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james42
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March 01, 2015, 09:23:34 AM |
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Mac wallet loads up fine and syncs happily, I don't have any CO2X yet so can't test it fully
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IMJim
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
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March 01, 2015, 09:29:22 AM |
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After blowing off some steam now I need to do the payout for the renewable producers and I am thinking of continuing to pay GreenCoin for now. A couple of reasons:
- Most of the Producers did not change over to a CO2X address so I would need to make an address for each of them and hold the coins
- The CO2X showed some mining issues on the first day (for example by 8 PM Pacific we only got to block 212 and it should be at 1440 by design, so the producers would be getting short coins).
- I don't have the CO2X Foundation wallet key yet so I would have to make the payout at some point later and do it in arrears. I can pay GRE now.
Certainly it will be difficult to make the official coin switch and then have to unwind it if something goes wrong. I think it might be a good idea to continue to pay old GRE for at least awhile and take this chance to evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of switching versus staying the course:
CO2Xcoin
advantageous:
- Coinbase algo works (still somewhat theoretical, but let's assume it does. If it doesn't a switch is a non-starter)
- New greener algo and PoS (though some people don't seem to like X11)
- Crisp wallet functionality and built in block explorer
disadvantageous:
- No pools or trading yet
- Switching for existing users is challenging (swapping coins, Producers, etc)
- Harder to work a new coin into the grcoin.com website database (still unsure how to do this but will figure it out)
- Small, unstable mining base subject to long block times and possibly a fork
GreenCoin
advantageous:
- merged mined and stable (23 GH/s currently)
- don't have to change the coin name/symbol to a new coin
- there hasn't been much marketing, so it would be easy to switch and/or start over, but what we have done so far would be lost, and "GreenCoin" is superior to "CO2ExchangeCoin" / "CO2Xcoin" IMO in terms of simpleness and elegance, logo etc (open to thoughts on this though).
- Already listed on Bittrex/Allcoin
disadvantageous:
- Biggest one by far is the coinbase transaction was defeated. The Foundation only gets ~400-800k. I have been buying the 600-1000k necessary to bring the coins to "exactly half" of the daily mine since Dec. 4. I could do this since they are so cheap this has been about $600-800 so it hasn't been too bad.
- Huge total coin amount affects price
- "Buggy" wallet doesn't fully sync, needs to be seeded first time it's run
I think in simple terms the two options are just biting the bullet and getting through a full switch over versus staying the course with existing GreenCoin. The switchover to the new coin we've already talked about a lot so I'll just state the case for staying with GreenCoin. First off, I would simply stop "buying" the extra coins to bring it up to half: that is, whatever coins exist in the wallet at 8 PM each night are what get paid out to Producers. This means the miners will be getting ~75% of the coins but is that really so bad? There aren't a lot of producers and the original 50/50 split was always somewhat arbitrary. Couple this with the fact that in the future miners will have to be throttled if the coin grows so they do not represent disproportionate value to the coin and there is a case that eventually a fork to this effect is inevitable in the future. I think staying with GreenCoin makes a some sense because I could begin market it immediately again. If (a big if) the coin was catching on and getting producers signed up I think a development team could be hired at some point in the future that may be able to fork in a solution to the coinbase problem, or, at that point, we make a substantially switchover and re-launch at that time.
So the question really is, do we switch over now when we are small and no one really cares anyways, or in some future scenario when we're potentially much bigger (either fork or switch over)?
I'm sorry but this is by far the best post I have seen on this forum! I did say he was dedicated lol:-) I had much respect for you before brother, but have more now. Had no idea this project was taking so damn much for you which tells me you are even more committed this project than I realized. I hope with all you have put into this man that you see your vision with all of this hit it's mark!! Guess I don't have to say that I FULLY support you, this project and the change over to the new coin. You are also right, as one of the "bag holders" of Gre.....I have no intent of dumping any of them for long time to come! |
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kbroadfoot
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1000
Bass Player
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March 01, 2015, 06:07:32 PM |
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CO2X seems to be chugging along... 564 POW blocks at this point ( and 0 POS )
I am trying to mine it with setgenerate true but having no luck so far...
I hold only about 68,000 GRE ( mostly from merge mining and a gift ) but would love to go head first into CO2X and see if we can get the POS to start as well...
And I am a supporter of this entire concept as well... will not 'dump' on the exchanges...
Quote:
disadvantageous:
- No pools or trading yet
- Switching for existing users is challenging (swapping coins, Producers, etc)
- Harder to work a new coin into the grcoin.com website database (still unsure how to do this but will figure it out)
- Small, unstable mining base subject to long block times and possibly a fork
Unquote:
Pool would be good...
Getting some folks swapped out and starting the POS might help stabilize the mining...
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Lightsplasher
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March 02, 2015, 12:13:00 AM |
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With any transition there is bound to be a few hiccups along the way. This is a very difficult thing to be doing; I appreciate everything done so far and I'm in support of moving to the new CO2X coin. I was planning on starting to solo mine but couldn't get the qt wallet to build under Ubuntu 14.04, so at this point I'm thinking of trying to build the daemon and solo mine using a GPU or two. (Lightsplasher's don't need any stinkin' qt wallets or pools anyhow)  Maybe posting a config file would be helpful for me or others to get started solo mining. This is kind of downstream, but perhaps but it would be neat to have a supporter/producer rich list / hall of fame type web page block explorer where we could mark an address with our name to show our results and be proud of the fact of how much carbon we have potentially sequestered. To me it such a good concept that the issue of monetary value should be secondary anyway to the ability to help create a change to clean renewable energy. No worries, FUD happens, and good things always take time to manifest and are never guarantied, thanks everyone and to you especially biodieselchris. |
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Cranky4u
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March 02, 2015, 02:31:18 AM |
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GRE producer here, just getting up to speed with the changes and happy to continue supporting the evolution of carbon abatement in which ever form it moves to.
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Lightsplasher
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March 02, 2015, 05:32:31 AM |
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I'm happy to say that I got the daemon to compile and started solo mining using one GPU (I haven't found anything as yet). The block chain seems to be running slow right now getinfo reports I'm at block 716 with 6 connections.
Getmininginfo reports:
error: couldn't parse reply from server
I have know idea what hash rate the network is working at now. Hopefully the difficulty will reset shortly.
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james42
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March 02, 2015, 06:30:21 AM |
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Yes, I get the same reply from the daemon on Linux. Getinfo works though: {
"version" : "v2.2.0.0-ge1d17f0-CO2X2",
"protocolversion" : 70004,
"walletversion" : 60002,
"encrypted" : false,
"balance" : 0.00000000,
"newmint" : 0.00000000,
"stake" : 0.00000000,
"blocks" : 716,
"moneysupply" : 14821.20000000,
"connections" : 5,
"proxy" : "",
"ip" : "xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx",
"difficulty" : 1.14587705,
"testnet" : false,
"keypoololdest" : 1425149791,
"keypoolsize" : 101,
"paytxfee" : 0.00000100,
"mininput" : 0.00000100,
"errors" : ""
}
Don't know why getmininginfo doesn't |
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biodieselchris (OP)
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March 02, 2015, 06:30:49 AM |
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After discussing a bit with nugget a bit the pros/cons listed above, we are going to continue to pay GreenCoin to Producers and officially support it from the GreenCoin Foundation perspective as the official carbon asset storage mechanism for at least into the near future. In the meantime, we can continue to discuss the merits of a brand new coin (with respite back-looking swap) as was attempted with CO2X, or continuing with GreenCoin and eventually attempting a fork in an attempt to fix the coinbase transaction issue, among other potential solutions. I'll just continue the discussion in this thread since the previous one I locked and everyone seems to be up to speed on the details of this discussion anyway. I'll update the OP to reflect the two coins.
I can still buy the coin shortage up to half as long as it stays low like this (which as of today is firmly 1 satoshi if you're selling a 2 to buy). If I was paying over 3 that would force the coin to be sent to Producers "as-is". This amount again is generally 400-800k per day and has lately been about 650k. The average payout based on the blocks per 24 hours should be about 1,400k, so it is ~750k short lately.
Nugget also had a working block explorer for GRE running at some point so I'll see if he can get that up again and I'll add it to the grcoin.com A-record.
Also, if folks want to help out with daily payouts for any reason here is a foundation address set up for that purpose:
GUpeoMfwaXpmkou71stNZnSvBXMNtGneWp
All GRE donations become part of the payout. They are not held by the Foundation for other purposes.
If you want tto help with general expenses in any other way, well, bless you, and here you go:
BTC: 1Jo4Xct4k3XRuTAApvieq5bjnV2ZXnSB8a
LTC: LP6T3wCpUQsK3JcpeBqNVQq2rfCKwwcM6t
Check / Other type of Donation: PM me
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james42
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March 02, 2015, 06:34:07 AM |
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I'd like to see the new coin getting going, moving to merged on GRE killed the value of the coin. The addition of PoS I think was a good move.
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IMJim
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
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March 02, 2015, 07:26:46 AM |
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I'd like to see the new coin getting going, moving to merged on GRE killed the value of the coin. The addition of PoS I think was a good move.
Yeah, I kinda have to agree on this but will add that it was a smart move cutting the supply! My vote's definitely in for the new coin as well. Sent ya 2 mil to donation addy Chris......another mill from me and a mil from moms. |
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seasonw
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March 02, 2015, 03:45:31 PM |
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Dev still calling new coin logo for BTC0.15? Maybe I can help |
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biodieselchris (OP)
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March 02, 2015, 05:05:32 PM |
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Dev still calling new coin logo for BTC0.15? Maybe I can help Can pay 0.05 for some ideas and 0.1 if we end up using it (feel free to PM) |
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biodieselchris (OP)
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March 02, 2015, 05:07:40 PM |
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I'd like to see the new coin getting going, moving to merged on GRE killed the value of the coin. The addition of PoS I think was a good move.
Yeah, I kinda have to agree on this but will add that it was a smart move cutting the supply! My vote's definitely in for the new coin as well. Sent ya 2 mil to donation addy Chris......another mill from me and a mil from moms. Ultimately both nugget and I agree with this assessment. He's doing a little bit more of a deep dive on the code to sluice out some technical elements that did not operate correctly on this past launch. In the meantime I'll continue to pay out "full" GreenCoin (donating in the extra as needed) with the price at 1 satoshi it is no big deal, and will try to add some producers with the coin as is. Thanks for the donation, Jim, that always helps me too. The OP has been reverted back to information and links on GreenCoin only for now. |
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james42
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March 02, 2015, 06:18:06 PM |
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Good to see you sticking at it Chris :-) I've had my best solar day of the year today, looking forward to a nice payout tomorrow ;-)
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biodieselchris (OP)
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March 03, 2015, 06:59:55 PM |
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Do we need to change to the new coin wallet address in profile page instead of the GRE address now?
Also tell us how to convert GRE to new coin?
no, for now it is still all GRE |
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kubuminer
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March 03, 2015, 10:08:58 PM |
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guys it is wallet correct for work
"version" : "v2.2.0.0-ge1d17f0-CO2X2",
"protocolversion" : 70004,
"walletversion" : 60002,
"encrypted" : false,
"balance" : 0.00000000,
"newmint" : 0.00000000,
"stake" : 0.00000000,
"blocks" : 716,
"moneysupply" : 14821.20000000,
"connections" : 4,
"proxy" : "",
"ip" : "*.*.*.*",
"difficulty" : 1.14587705,
"testnet" : false,
"keypoololdest" : 1425112555,
"keypoolsize" : 103,
"paytxfee" : 0.00000100,
"mininput" : 0.00000100,
"errors" : ""
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Lightsplasher
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March 04, 2015, 04:21:13 AM |
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guys it is wallet correct for work
"version" : "v2.2.0.0-ge1d17f0-CO2X2",
"protocolversion" : 70004,
"walletversion" : 60002,
"encrypted" : false,
"balance" : 0.00000000,
"newmint" : 0.00000000,
"stake" : 0.00000000,
"blocks" : 716,
"moneysupply" : 14821.20000000,
"connections" : 4,
"proxy" : "",
"ip" : "*.*.*.*",
"difficulty" : 1.14587705,
"testnet" : false,
"keypoololdest" : 1425112555,
"keypoolsize" : 103,
"paytxfee" : 0.00000100,
"mininput" : 0.00000100,
"errors" : ""
I hope so, I've been running two GPU's on it for some time attempting to free the CO2X coin from the carbonite that has bound it up at block 716. My best share is a 15 with a difficulty reported by SGMiner as a 68 so it could take a while. Maybe somebody will get it moving again with a PoS block or get lucky. The excitement builds... I hope that PoS will smooth out this type of issue when it starts working, and based on this experience it might need to be modified a bit so it kicks in faster. I would suggest changing the PoS block time from ten minutes to one minute and shortening the minimum starting time. In my opinion this coin (coins?) seems more about building camaraderie with people interested in long term success of free clean energy and the health of the biosphere and less about building long term monetary success. It would be great if both things happened but at this point who knows.  I believe investors are equally important as miners and producers for this coin because they are standing by the coin and supporting the block chain by running PoS or providing value through purchases and promoting the coin through their investment. I don't feel it is right to be supplementing value to miners and pool operators through the purchase of coins that should be rightfully a part of the foundation but are not being properly distributed – I would stop doing this. If anything I would use some of this value to purchase some hash to break the CO2X coin free – (just back off slow so that we don't end with the same situation). Sorry if this feels like a rant – just feeling a bit frustrated after setting my GPU's on this for almost three days and missing out on mining my usual stash of XMG through the multipool. |
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Cranky4u
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March 04, 2015, 06:11:33 AM |
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so has the diff got us stuck at block 716 or is the wallet just failing to synch?
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