ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[Franktank]

Reiterating my previous offer with better conditions :

I am swapping 3 Avalon units (1xbatch#1,2xbatch#2) with 500 ASICMINER-PT full shares. Anyone up for it ?
My batch 1 already paid out about 150 btc and i'm currently mining at about 0.215 Terahash/sec, getting 8.15 bitcoin daily.
According to my calculations and what i've gathered from other sources, these units should be able to mine at least 400/500 btc roughly before the difficulty goes through the roof.
Looking for constructive criticism, and offers if there are any. People interested can also PM me. Units would be available for local pickup in Europe or an escrow with a hero member of your choice.

Cheers
Delaria

I really do hope you find someone to trade for yor devices and soon. Peopl are staring to realize just part of the potential of AM shares. Because if you're buying into AM shares, you're buying a percentage of all mined AM blocks for the next couple years.

I am very biased towards AM right now because hardware right now seem like mining bonds (diminishing returns), whereas ASICMiner is a sustained, scaling source of income (barring Armageddon/govt intervention). The only way Avalon/BFL could match is to send a module every couple of months to upgrade your hardware. (flawed analogy but you get the idea). Plus you get a cut of profit from hardware sales, pretty sure Avalon/BFL isn't doing that.

Thank you, but don't forget that the AM share price can go down as well, and there are a ton of other risks to consider, primarily rampant competition ( in the medium/long term i believe serious ASIC operations will see the light ), plus you can invest (wisely) the proceeds of mining into buying new hardware, possibly bulk Avalon chips, and get them mounted, thus keeping up with the difficulty increase.

All valid points also but I guess I'm willing to take my chances with friedcat.

[delaria]

Reiterating my previous offer with better conditions :

I am swapping 3 Avalon units (1xbatch#1,2xbatch#2) with 500 ASICMINER-PT full shares. Anyone up for it ?
My batch 1 already paid out about 150 btc and i'm currently mining at about 0.215 Terahash/sec, getting 8.15 bitcoin daily.
According to my calculations and what i've gathered from other sources, these units should be able to mine at least 400/500 btc roughly before the difficulty goes through the roof.
Looking for constructive criticism, and offers if there are any. People interested can also PM me. Units would be available for local pickup in Europe or an escrow with a hero member of your choice.

Cheers
Delaria

I really do hope you find someone to trade for yor devices and soon. Peopl are staring to realize just part of the potential of AM shares. Because if you're buying into AM shares, you're buying a percentage of all mined AM blocks for the next couple years.

I am very biased towards AM right now because hardware right now seem like mining bonds (diminishing returns), whereas ASICMiner is a sustained, scaling source of income (barring Armageddon/govt intervention). The only way Avalon/BFL could match is to send a module every couple of months to upgrade your hardware. (flawed analogy but you get the idea). Plus you get a cut of profit from hardware sales, pretty sure Avalon/BFL isn't doing that.

Thank you, but don't forget that the AM share price can go down as well, and there are a ton of other risks to consider, primarily rampant competition ( in the medium/long term i believe serious ASIC operations will see the light ), plus you can invest (wisely) the proceeds of mining into buying new hardware, possibly bulk Avalon chips, and get them mounted, thus keeping up with the difficulty increase.

All valid points also but I guess I'm willing to take my chances with friedcat.

See my edit above, are you a large shareholder ? if that's the case, consider the possibility of hedging your risk.

EDIT : i'm willing to lower the price to 450 shares.

[Franktank]

Reiterating my previous offer with better conditions :

I am swapping 3 Avalon units (1xbatch#1,2xbatch#2) with 500 ASICMINER-PT full shares. Anyone up for it ?
My batch 1 already paid out about 150 btc and i'm currently mining at about 0.215 Terahash/sec, getting 8.15 bitcoin daily.
According to my calculations and what i've gathered from other sources, these units should be able to mine at least 400/500 btc roughly before the difficulty goes through the roof.
Looking for constructive criticism, and offers if there are any. People interested can also PM me. Units would be available for local pickup in Europe or an escrow with a hero member of your choice.

Cheers
Delaria

I really do hope you find someone to trade for yor devices and soon. Peopl are staring to realize just part of the potential of AM shares. Because if you're buying into AM shares, you're buying a percentage of all mined AM blocks for the next couple years.

I am very biased towards AM right now because hardware right now seem like mining bonds (diminishing returns), whereas ASICMiner is a sustained, scaling source of income (barring Armageddon/govt intervention). The only way Avalon/BFL could match is to send a module every couple of months to upgrade your hardware. (flawed analogy but you get the idea). Plus you get a cut of profit from hardware sales, pretty sure Avalon/BFL isn't doing that.

Thank you, but don't forget that the AM share price can go down as well, and there are a ton of other risks to consider, primarily rampant competition ( in the medium/long term i believe serious ASIC operations will see the light ), plus you can invest (wisely) the proceeds of mining into buying new hardware, possibly bulk Avalon chips, and get them mounted, thus keeping up with the difficulty increase.

All valid points also but I guess I'm willing to take my chances with friedcat.

See my edit above, are you a large shareholder ? if that's the case, consider the possibility of hedging your risk.

Actually, minor shareholder (less than 300) here.

[delaria]

Reiterating my previous offer with better conditions :

I am swapping 3 Avalon units (1xbatch#1,2xbatch#2) with 500 ASICMINER-PT full shares. Anyone up for it ?
My batch 1 already paid out about 150 btc and i'm currently mining at about 0.215 Terahash/sec, getting 8.15 bitcoin daily.
According to my calculations and what i've gathered from other sources, these units should be able to mine at least 400/500 btc roughly before the difficulty goes through the roof.
Looking for constructive criticism, and offers if there are any. People interested can also PM me. Units would be available for local pickup in Europe or an escrow with a hero member of your choice.

Cheers
Delaria

I really do hope you find someone to trade for yor devices and soon. Peopl are staring to realize just part of the potential of AM shares. Because if you're buying into AM shares, you're buying a percentage of all mined AM blocks for the next couple years.

I am very biased towards AM right now because hardware right now seem like mining bonds (diminishing returns), whereas ASICMiner is a sustained, scaling source of income (barring Armageddon/govt intervention). The only way Avalon/BFL could match is to send a module every couple of months to upgrade your hardware. (flawed analogy but you get the idea). Plus you get a cut of profit from hardware sales, pretty sure Avalon/BFL isn't doing that.

Thank you, but don't forget that the AM share price can go down as well, and there are a ton of other risks to consider, primarily rampant competition ( in the medium/long term i believe serious ASIC operations will see the light ), plus you can invest (wisely) the proceeds of mining into buying new hardware, possibly bulk Avalon chips, and get them mounted, thus keeping up with the difficulty increase.

All valid points also but I guess I'm willing to take my chances with friedcat.

See my edit above, are you a large shareholder ? if that's the case, consider the possibility of hedging your risk.

Actually, minor shareholder (less than 300) here.

Still cool, i would be up also for a partial swap, not the three whole units, maybe only 1 ? are you interested ?

[ThickAsThieves]

Please take the trade deals elsewhere.

[delaria]

Reiterating my previous offer with better conditions :

I am swapping 3 Avalon units (1xbatch#1,2xbatch#2) with 500 ASICMINER-PT full shares. Anyone up for it ?
My batch 1 already paid out about 150 btc and i'm currently mining at about 0.215 Terahash/sec, getting 8.15 bitcoin daily.
According to my calculations and what i've gathered from other sources, these units should be able to mine at least 400/500 btc roughly before the difficulty goes through the roof.
Looking for constructive criticism, and offers if there are any. People interested can also PM me. Units would be available for local pickup in Europe or an escrow with a hero member of your choice.

Cheers
Delaria

I really do hope you find someone to trade for yor devices and soon. Peopl are staring to realize just part of the potential of AM shares. Because if you're buying into AM shares, you're buying a percentage of all mined AM blocks for the next couple years.

I am very biased towards AM right now because hardware right now seem like mining bonds (diminishing returns), whereas ASICMiner is a sustained, scaling source of income (barring Armageddon/govt intervention). The only way Avalon/BFL could match is to send a module every couple of months to upgrade your hardware. (flawed analogy but you get the idea). Plus you get a cut of profit from hardware sales, pretty sure Avalon/BFL isn't doing that.

Thank you, but don't forget that the AM share price can go down as well, and there are a ton of other risks to consider, primarily rampant competition ( in the medium/long term i believe serious ASIC operations will see the light ), plus you can invest (wisely) the proceeds of mining into buying new hardware, possibly bulk Avalon chips, and get them mounted, thus keeping up with the difficulty increase.

All valid points also but I guess I'm willing to take my chances with friedcat.

See my edit above, are you a large shareholder ? if that's the case, consider the possibility of hedging your risk.

Actually, minor shareholder (less than 300) here.

Still cool, i would be up also for a partial swap, not the three whole units, maybe only 1 ? are you interested ?

Excuse me I can swap 50 shares for one black avalon, thats my final offer.

Sorry, that's absolutely out of tune. My last offer for un unit is 150, both direct or BTC-TO full shares.

Thank you anyway

EDIT Sorry for going off topic.

[bitfair]

I am swapping 3 Avalon units (1xbatch#1,2xbatch#2) with 500 ASICMINER-PT full shares. Anyone up for it ?

Market value maybe around 250 btc / unit right now, but on eBay they are going for much more. I'll have to resort to ebay that shitty site if no one takes the offer.  

I don't think this is the right place to discuss such deals.

But just let me point out why nobody is interested in your offer:
Market price of 3xAvalons: Approx. 750 BTC
Market price of 500 ASICMINER shares: Approx. 1200 BTC

[delaria]

I am swapping 3 Avalon units (1xbatch#1,2xbatch#2) with 500 ASICMINER-PT full shares. Anyone up for it ?

Market value maybe around 250 btc / unit right now, but on eBay they are going for much more. I'll have to resort to ebay that shitty site if no one takes the offer.  

I don't think this is the right place to discuss such deals.

But just let me point out why nobody is interested in your offer:
Market price of 3xAvalons: Approx. 750 BTC
Market price of 500 ASICMINER shares: Approx. 1200 BTC

Yeah and i apologize for going off topic i've just thought this thread would be the best place to gather interest. The point is that it may not be easy to obtain Avalon devices right now. Andy many others i made in my previous posts. But i think it's time to cut off this discussion here. PM me if you are interested in further discussion.

Cheers

[keystroke]

Lets get back on this topic...

The number of shares held by the public... looking through the blockchain at satoshi transactions I can only account for 64,469 shares... where are the others?  Did I miss some? Are some shares not handled the same way as these? Did friedcat buy back some shares and we have yet to discover this?  Were there never actually more then this many shares sold and we were wrong all along?

Info taken from transactions on 5/29/2013 such as this transaction https://blockchain.info/tx/2f161bac1ef4c5dc09168de36a7c7c80a7d0ac236ec1e29a25c825d5c3a6ed7e and the other 5 like it (total of 6).

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Am3MH7b0EM3adG56N1VzZzdtNXRZSkdOOXcxbGx0TXc&usp=sharing

Some basic information... From what I know all public holders of shares are paid one satoshi per share before dividends from 115tTroRo3B9ZDQ6ATJGDCHcNEVbjJoZnF.  By looking at all transactions from that address on a dividend day, I should be able to account for all publicly held shares and figure out what addresses own how many shares and track movement.  PT shares derive through publicly held shares (often called direct shares) so even though some people would not be represented here themselves... the PT should be listed and the pt share holders will be under that.  TAT confirmed his address was already listed here in my sheet.

Are my assumptions wrong?  Did I fuck up and miss a transaction in this spreadsheet?  Is YOUR dividend address listed? Or.. is something else going on.  If everyone reading this thread just checked to see if they see their address listed in my spreadsheet, we could quickly figure out if the mistake is on my end (which i assume is the case)...  If you do NOT see yours listed... link me to the transaction that includes your satoshies for 5/29.

Here's one for your spreadsheet that you missed:

https://blockchain.info/tx/a277fe830ef6b58d72614055fa53381fd85b6dd1714d21b3d1f6f88838b620eb

I think there is an error in the calculation for >1000. The sheet has C2:C299 instead of C1:C298. Same for some of the other calcs. There are 9 >1,000, 2 > 5,000, and 1 <10,000.

[Transisto]

Feel good to bump that mess of a thread from time to time.

For when an AM forum ?

Sorry, I know I asked a few time already but I'm too lazy to search for the answer.

[SmiGueL]

Any predictions for tomorrow's dividend?

The mining-income-address was yesterday almost 7k coins
1.1k left means 5.9k --> 0.015/share for mining?
If that's true then the 4th chart is pretty close
Of course costs for labour/electricity and maybe some investment have to be subtracted from this.

Income from hardware sales (quick guess: 1000 sticks and 50 blades?) gives about 0.01 which makes --> ~ 0.022 - 0.025/share


Real-time mining meter message quote, also on the live website:

If that's really the case then this is the income/share meter



_{*Note that costs for labour/electricity etc. have to be subtracted from this - Updates about every hour.}

[ning]

I'm quoting the following from a recent reddit post (link):

ASIC miner share price makes no sense. it's a bubble and it's not gonna be worth it. right now it's like 70mh per share for 2.4 BTC! you might as well spend the money on buying mining hardware. the yearly return is 38%, yea it's good compare with the stock market but let's look at the fundamentals. the market cap of asicminer is overvalued. for the same amount of money i.e. total issued shares x share price you can build another asic mining company 400,000 * 2.4 * 120 = 115,200,000 USD. This makes no sense, with this amount of money you can R&D ASICs and have hash rates that's many times over the current network hashrates. No, they are not going to maintain this amount of hashpower once all other asics come online. sooner or later other asics will be competing. there is asicminer, avalon, bitfury, diy avalon, kncminer, bfl, diy bfl, BTC garden, and many other private projects. In a few month there will be hundreds of THs dumping to the network and asicminer shares will be worth nothing. If a year from now you can sell the shares for the same price good for you, but most likely you won't be, and the dividend will not be enough to cover your loss. Think about it: if they can IPO at 0.1 BTC per share for 400,000 shares, why can't you build a similar company for 0.3 BTC * 400,000*50 (where 0.3 and 50 is the over-estimated BTC price, it IPO'd last year)

I think it's useful to quote it here since people coming to this thread in the future may have similar thoughts. (I am an AM share holder.)

[g83]

I'm quoting the following from a recent reddit post (link):

ASIC miner share price makes no sense. it's a bubble and it's not gonna be worth it. right now it's like 70mh per share for 2.4 BTC! you might as well spend the money on buying mining hardware. the yearly return is 38%, yea it's good compare with the stock market but let's look at the fundamentals. the market cap of asicminer is overvalued. for the same amount of money i.e. total issued shares x share price you can build another asic mining company 400,000 * 2.4 * 120 = 115,200,000 USD. This makes no sense, with this amount of money you can R&D ASICs and have hash rates that's many times over the current network hashrates. No, they are not going to maintain this amount of hashpower once all other asics come online. sooner or later other asics will be competing. there is asicminer, avalon, bitfury, diy avalon, kncminer, bfl, diy bfl, BTC garden, and many other private projects. In a few month there will be hundreds of THs dumping to the network and asicminer shares will be worth nothing. If a year from now you can sell the shares for the same price good for you, but most likely you won't be, and the dividend will not be enough to cover your loss. Think about it: if they can IPO at 0.1 BTC per share for 400,000 shares, why can't you build a similar company for 0.3 BTC * 400,000*50 (where 0.3 and 50 is the over-estimated BTC price, it IPO'd last year)

I think it's useful to quote it here since people coming to this thread in the future may have similar thoughts. (I am an AM share holder.)

Answered by someone:
I disagree. Asicminer has second gen chips in the works and plans on keeping a comparatively high percentage of the total network hashrate, most likely for a very competitive price per mh/s. Also, hardware sales have been increasing the dividend every week since they started selling hardware, and is the only company that is available to ship a product in a reasonable amount of time. They were the first ASIC company to come to market, and I think they will use this huge advantage to stay ahead for a good deal of time to come.

[Eric Muyser]

I'm quoting the following from a recent reddit post (link):

ASIC miner share price makes no sense. it's a bubble and it's not gonna be worth it. right now it's like 70mh per share for 2.4 BTC! you might as well spend the money on buying mining hardware. the yearly return is 38%, yea it's good compare with the stock market but let's look at the fundamentals. the market cap of asicminer is overvalued. for the same amount of money i.e. total issued shares x share price you can build another asic mining company 400,000 * 2.4 * 120 = 115,200,000 USD. This makes no sense, with this amount of money you can R&D ASICs and have hash rates that's many times over the current network hashrates. No, they are not going to maintain this amount of hashpower once all other asics come online. sooner or later other asics will be competing. there is asicminer, avalon, bitfury, diy avalon, kncminer, bfl, diy bfl, BTC garden, and many other private projects. In a few month there will be hundreds of THs dumping to the network and asicminer shares will be worth nothing. If a year from now you can sell the shares for the same price good for you, but most likely you won't be, and the dividend will not be enough to cover your loss. Think about it: if they can IPO at 0.1 BTC per share for 400,000 shares, why can't you build a similar company for 0.3 BTC * 400,000*50 (where 0.3 and 50 is the over-estimated BTC price, it IPO'd last year)

I think it's useful to quote it here since people coming to this thread in the future may have similar thoughts. (I am an AM share holder.)

My rebuttal: there's only one friedcat.

[g83]

Shareholders and those who buy shares even at 2,5 BTC expect shares to generate more than 500 mh / share in a few months and even more until the end of this year.

[wo0x]

This calculations and description of "overpriced shares" lacks the not valuable sustainability AM proofed and it will continue mining 25% to 30% of the blocks. There are shares available, whose sustainability isn't comparable by far and that sell like blue bananas, as the most recent released "virtualmine".

TAT, I don't want to offend you, quite the reverse, I like that idea, as it just sold like the mentioned "blue bananas" it could just make me a bit jealous

[stripykitteh]

Something to think about. I haven't analyzed this in any detail, but every time I've looked at the recently solved blocks in the last few days, I'm seeing on average only 6-7 minutes to solve a block. In fact just then I saw the network solved 7 blocks in the last 20 minutes.

This means that:

a) difficulty is about to skyrocket
b) AM probably solved a lot of blocks in the last week, so mining income might be higher. But don't get too excited, when the difficulty adjusts, the number of blocks solved by everyone next week will be lower.

Global hashrate is ~132TH/s now. Most of the increase is not AM, so either more Avalons are hitting the network or something else novel.

[Flames66257]

I've been reading a long time and I can't seem to find any financial reporting by asicminer, only the updates by friedcat. For a company of this size I would like to see some form of independent auditing like mentioned in this thread;

 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=181829.msg2109601#msg2109601

Do we know if there are plans for this in the future like an annual report?

[Mausini]

I'm quoting the following from a recent reddit post (link):

ASIC miner share price makes no sense. it's a bubble and it's not gonna be worth it. right now it's like 70mh per share for 2.4 BTC! you might as well spend the money on buying mining hardware. the yearly return is 38%, yea it's good compare with the stock market but let's look at the fundamentals. the market cap of asicminer is overvalued. for the same amount of money i.e. total issued shares x share price you can build another asic mining company 400,000 * 2.4 * 120 = 115,200,000 USD. This makes no sense, with this amount of money you can R&D ASICs and have hash rates that's many times over the current network hashrates. No, they are not going to maintain this amount of hashpower once all other asics come online. sooner or later other asics will be competing. there is asicminer, avalon, bitfury, diy avalon, kncminer, bfl, diy bfl, BTC garden, and many other private projects. In a few month there will be hundreds of THs dumping to the network and asicminer shares will be worth nothing. If a year from now you can sell the shares for the same price good for you, but most likely you won't be, and the dividend will not be enough to cover your loss. Think about it: if they can IPO at 0.1 BTC per share for 400,000 shares, why can't you build a similar company for 0.3 BTC * 400,000*50 (where 0.3 and 50 is the over-estimated BTC price, it IPO'd last year)

I think it's useful to quote it here since people coming to this thread in the future may have similar thoughts. (I am an AM share holder.)

Aaaaand again someone found the holy grail after so much time so many people have been looking for it It's funny...

It seems a lot of people are missing the fact that ASICMINER is not a mining bond with some mh/s per share. Instead, ASICMINER is a company that scales. To make this clear, an ASICMINER share is NOT an indirect purchase of some mining equipment in a data centre. An ASICMINER share is your bet on highly skilled people (friedcat and team) with a fantastic track record to do anything in their power to earn you bitcoins with mining and hardware sales. That's what makes ASICMINER worth "400,000 * 2.4 * 120 = 115,200,000 USD" and even if its a big number, it's absolulutely justified. Dividends do not lie.

[Betatester]

If they manage to keep 20% of the network hash rate, which I am sure they will, there will always be a dividend of 0.015 per share. That makes annual return of 30%. That is pretty damn good.
Shares are cheap now. They are worth more than 3 BTC.