ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[Ozymandias]

Yeah, where could I order that again? Last I checked, AM sold 10GH for 50BTC~$6K. For 120GH you pay $72K with AM.

But hey, if your math makes you pay 36 times more than from across the street, I still have those Pentium III chips at $1K a pop.

.b

btct, bitfunder, and even havelock!

Ah, you mean those shares where you pay 2.5BTC~$325 for around 75MH/s? That sounds like a great deal. How much would I need to invest to get 120GH/s of that?

Oh, and I'll throw in free shipping on those Pentium III chips. Why aren't there any takers? At one point in time, they were the cream of the crop and nobody could deliver anything even close in performance.

.b

Come on, you're smarter than that! Those shares entitle you to a perpetually increasing hashrate coupled with similarly perpetual improvements in technology as opposed to a one time purchase that will be inevitably obsolete due to its lack of evolution. The gamble that is to be made here is whether one believes ASICminer is a short term phenomenon or will be a major player in Bitcoin for years to come. I believe the latter and from what I've read, you seem to believe the former (a belief that if I interpreted it correctly I respect but with which I disagree). All that being said, I leave to you the last word and may your dealings bring you happiness and profit in that order!

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[Mausini]

Yeah, where could I order that again? Last I checked, AM sold 10GH for 50BTC~$6K. For 120GH you pay $72K with AM.

But hey, if your math makes you pay 36 times more than from across the street, I still have those Pentium III chips at $1K a pop.

.b

btct, bitfunder, and even havelock!

Ah, you mean those shares where you pay 2.5BTC~$325 for around 75MH/s? That sounds like a great deal. How much would I need to invest to get 120GH/s of that?

Oh, and I'll throw in free shipping on those Pentium III chips. Why aren't there any takers? At one point in time, they were the cream of the crop and nobody could deliver anything even close in performance.

.b

furknap, can you please cut your opportunistic shit? I'm pretty sure you know what you just posted here is plain wrong and completely misleading. Why dont you just buy back in and do your positive propaganda again?

[furuknap]

furknap, can you please cut your opportunistic shit? I'm pretty sure you know what you just posted here is plain wrong and completely misleading. Why dont you just buy back in and do your positive propaganda again?

...by comparing the cost of an ASIC chip to what you pay for a finished product is not misleading?

The initial question to which I responded was why AM hardware sales is a temporary benefit, to which I responded that competitors are weeks away from delivering 30x the efficiency so AM hardware will be worthless to buyers. Then someone commented that since AM can build HW at a low price that somehow will make buyers want 30x less efficient hardware. when I pointed out the flaw of that, I was told to buy shares, that currently trade at $2 for $1 of company value even in the best of circumstances.

And I'm the one being misleading?

I'll buy back in at a reasonable price. Right now, it's unreasonable and people have an Apple fanboi attitude, which isn't healthy.

However, I'll stop, again, posting anything here.

.b

[philipma1957]

  The reason hash is low is no other company is releasing hash a a big rate.  I feel that AM can go to 40Th over night they do not want to do this.

  They want to grow in the 20-30% slot parallel to the network. So while 2.5 coins for 75MH/s plus sales sounds bad. It will keep at a 20-30% rate to the rest of the network which makes  it  a good buy.

  Last august I had 2Gh/s the network had 17Th.  I now have 8Gh/s the network has 120Th I am loosing ground with my gpus.  I can get to 11 or 12 Gh/s with gpu/s in the winter not the summer. so my growth is frozen as a miner. Am allows me some growth which I am grateful for. I can even cut my gpus back which I have from 11 to 8 Gh/s worth to cope with heat.

[bitfair]

(...) competitors are weeks away from delivering 30x the efficiency (...)

Ever since August 2012 competitors have been weeks away from delivering more efficient hardware.

But where did you get "30x the efficiency" from? As far as I know, there is no technology that provides that, even 22nm would not achieve 30x the efficiency...

[Mausini]

furknap, can you please cut your opportunistic shit? I'm pretty sure you know what you just posted here is plain wrong and completely misleading. Why dont you just buy back in and do your positive propaganda again?

...by comparing the cost of an ASIC chip to what you pay for a finished product is not misleading?

The initial question to which I responded was why AM hardware sales is a temporary benefit, to which I responded that competitors are weeks away from delivering 30x the efficiency so AM hardware will be worthless to buyers. Then someone commented that since AM can build HW at a low price that somehow will make buyers want 30x less efficient hardware. when I pointed out the flaw of that, I was told to buy shares, that currently trade at $2 for $1 of company value even in the best of circumstances.

And I'm the one being misleading?

I'll buy back in at a reasonable price. Right now, it's unreasonable and people have an Apple fanboi attitude, which isn't healthy.

However, I'll stop, again, posting anything here.

.b

i meant your 75MH/s per share argument. I let you explain yourself why this comparison is completely derailed.

and regarding the competition: they are weeks away, yes. exactly 2 weeks, if you know what i mean. funny thing is, as time goes on they keep being 2 weeks away Seriously, someone saying they'll have this and that hash rate online or ready for selling DOES NOT MEAN ANYTHING. There is a lot more to it than just producing some asic prototype. The only one who pulled something like this of in large scale is friedcat. If you really believe you have better odds with some pipe dreams, go for it!

[nousfeed]

I would really like to see a website setup to streamline sales and news too. Theres really no excuse plenty of people can do it, asicminer could probably do the whole thing with bitcoin too, website hosting paid in bitcoin, designers paid in bitcoin. Or just do it them selves, its really not hard to setup a wordpress store with bitpay. Being able to sell usb eruptors directly to people would be a huge benefit. They would probably need to hire someone to handle the orders but that shouldnt be an issue because of the added sales.

They have designed made and are now selling hardware, they really need to get their shit together and sort out the front end of the business, the part the public sees, it really shouldnt be that you have to delve through a unrelated forum to find out how to buy the stuff. They have product, they need to market it now before competitors have their own stock.

[Eric Muyser]

I would really like to see a website setup to streamline sales and news too. Theres really no excuse plenty of people can do it, asicminer could probably do the whole thing with bitcoin too, website hosting paid in bitcoin, designers paid in bitcoin. Or just do it them selves, its really not hard to setup a wordpress store with bitpay. Being able to sell usb eruptors directly to people would be a huge benefit. They would probably need to hire someone to handle the orders but that shouldnt be an issue because of the added sales.

They have designed made and are now selling hardware, they really need to get their shit together and sort out the front end of the business, the part the public sees, it really shouldnt be that you have to delve through a unrelated forum to find out how to buy the stuff. They have product, they need to market it now before competitors have their own stock.

I don't know about that. The simplicity and profit of selling in bulk is a good excuse, because you have to interact with the third-party somewhere anyway, on like, a forum There's a lot of overhead in selling units of 1 to just anyone around the world. They could have a better public image though, than checking a large "fried cat" forum topic.

[iCEBREAKER]

I would really like to see a website setup to streamline sales and news too. Theres really no excuse plenty of people can do it, asicminer could probably do the whole thing with bitcoin too, website hosting paid in bitcoin, designers paid in bitcoin. Or just do it them selves, its really not hard to setup a wordpress store with bitpay. Being able to sell usb eruptors directly to people would be a huge benefit. They would probably need to hire someone to handle the orders but that shouldnt be an issue because of the added sales.

This already exists and it's called BitMit.net.  No need for AM to re-invent the wheel.  Their time is far too valuable.

They could put some blades and USBees up for auction right away; it would only take about 10 minutes.  Much less trouble than the messy auction threads.

[radiumsoup]

At least open a Facebook page, that costs nothing.

It still costs time, which is not trivial.

It also can generate awareness and thus business. And who says friedcat has to do everything himself?

That's kind of the point of the rest of the discussion on time management, though... nobody really knows who is doing what from a business development standpoint, who can open up a retail website, or who can manage a FB page. FB is *much* more time consuming than a simple static blog, too, as you have to post often and at varying times of day to show up in folks' feeds, unlike a blog where you just post once and wait for the comments to drip in. As of now, we have no information on exactly how much free time Friedcat has, or who he has working for him who can handle marketing beyond these boards. So until we get new information, we stick with the assumption that he is, at least for now, doing everything himself.

[romerun]

I would really like to see a website setup to streamline sales and news too. Theres really no excuse plenty of people can do it, asicminer could probably do the whole thing with bitcoin too, website hosting paid in bitcoin, designers paid in bitcoin. Or just do it them selves, its really not hard to setup a wordpress store with bitpay. Being able to sell usb eruptors directly to people would be a huge benefit. They would probably need to hire someone to handle the orders but that shouldnt be an issue because of the added sales.

They have designed made and are now selling hardware, they really need to get their shit together and sort out the front end of the business, the part the public sees, it really shouldnt be that you have to delve through a unrelated forum to find out how to buy the stuff. They have product, they need to market it now before competitors have their own stock.

Yea, I guess, hardware sale could be improved to maximize profit, like hiring someones to auction/ship those erupters over the bay directly, or have them on amazon with a premium price. Now it's pretty much like AM is the supplier selling bulks to retailers for distribution.

IMO hardware sale is the key for AM in the long run.

[Transisto]

People have been asking for a website for months.

Has FriedCat ever replied something about that ?

[ThickAsThieves]

People have been asking for a website for months.

Has FriedCat ever replied something about that ?

It might not have been directly about a website, but I recall FC saying some words suggesting that AM leaves opportunity for distributors to make any kind of service they want to. In other words, AM doesn't need a website, but if you want to but wholesale, and sell retail, go for it. Make your own website, sell their boards, etc.

Or maybe I'm making this up...

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

Umm, ThickAtThieves, I think we see a pattern here. The next pirate / nefario?

Mostly joking

[matt4054]

It might not have been directly about a website, but I recall FC saying some words suggesting that AM leaves opportunity for distributors to make any kind of service they want to. In other words, AM doesn't need a website, but if you want to but wholesale, and sell retail, go for it. Make your own website, sell their boards, etc.

Or maybe I'm making this up...

Well, Mr Freemarket has just confirmed your statement ;-)

Currently I believe there are only 2 items for sale: The Erupter Blades at 49.99 BTC and the USBs at 1.99 BTC each. I have ordered both of them, I got the Blade already and I'm very satisfied with it.

However, I woudn't want to be a reseller without proper preparation, I know that business (working in e-commerce) and how much overhead it is to handle RMAs, DOAs, customer service, stock management etc. Another specific problem, at least with the Blade, is that it is still a quite DIYish device: you need your own PSUs and cooling, it comes without a case and I am under the impression that it's still fragile: it could easily be ruined by static discharges, overheat, excessive bending, etc.

For the USB sticks, I'm waiting for mine to ship from A+C's group buy, should be there next week. If these are easy to operate, I'm pretty sure many companies (including mine) would be interested in reselling them. I will also try to help DrHaribo to get his (Java) BitMinter client operate with the Erupter USB, so they can be as "plug'n'mine" as possible.

And about the website, Bitfountain.com apparently belongs to Friedcat ("David Fan"?), but as TAT just said, hardware resellers can just build and publish their own reseller websites. Friedcat is probably busy working on the next-gen chips, or anything more useful at the moment.

[stripykitteh]

People have been asking for a website for months.

Has FriedCat ever replied something about that ?

It might not have been directly about a website, but I recall FC saying some words suggesting that AM leaves opportunity for distributors to make any kind of service they want to. In other words, AM doesn't need a website, but if you want to but wholesale, and sell retail, go for it. Make your own website, sell their boards, etc.

Or maybe I'm making this up...

I think a retail channel would be a good idea as it would free Bitfountain from the hassle of dealing with hundreds of retail buyers. Surely if there is stock on hand or stock committed to be produced now is the time to start shipping it, not in three months when its value has fallen by 2/3rds. Also better to sell stock in bulk than have to worry about deploying it to the farm with its attendant admin and operations costs.

There are risks involved in being a reseller of any mining product in an era where generations of tech are measured in months - you don't want stock sitting in your warehouse for more than a couple of weeks, tops. The blades are currently priced at a premium as well, which would make it hard to make a margin on top of that. Perhaps the distribution channel should get blades at say BTC25 each in volume and then be looking to sell them to retail customers for BTC35 each (still a good business when each blade only costs about BTC1 to manufacture). AM would sell an absolute boatload of blades and would have a bulging war chest to pay for the next generation of hardware.

[ThickAsThieves]

Umm, ThickAtThieves, I think we see a pattern here. The next pirate / nefario?

Mostly joking

Did I miss something? Or are you just referring to my name?

If so, it's a movie reference. It means "loyal" or "in cahoots" if you're a cowboy.

[nousfeed]

People have been asking for a website for months.

Has FriedCat ever replied something about that ?

It might not have been directly about a website, but I recall FC saying some words suggesting that AM leaves opportunity for distributors to make any kind of service they want to. In other words, AM doesn't need a website, but if you want to but wholesale, and sell retail, go for it. Make your own website, sell their boards, etc.

Or maybe I'm making this up...

I think a retail channel would be a good idea as it would free Bitfountain from the hassle of dealing with hundreds of retail buyers. Surely if there is stock on hand or stock committed to be produced now is the time to start shipping it, not in three months when its value has fallen by 2/3rds. Also better to sell stock in bulk than have to worry about deploying it to the farm with its attendant admin and operations costs.

There are risks involved in being a reseller of any mining product in an era where generations of tech are measured in months - you don't want stock sitting in your warehouse for more than a couple of weeks, tops. The blades are currently priced at a premium as well, which would make it hard to make a margin on top of that. Perhaps the distribution channel should get blades at say BTC25 each in volume and then be looking to sell them to retail customers for BTC35 each (still a good business when each blade only costs about BTC1 to manufacture). AM would sell an absolute boatload of blades and would have a bulging war chest to pay for the next generation of hardware.

I agree the price for blades and usb eruptors are too high for re-sellers, yes they are going for $400+ on ebay but thats only because of how hard they are to buy at the moment and how hard btc is to get. If you are only selling in bulk you need to price it accordingly to make it financially viable for your re-sellers.
I still think they need a website for info, when you google bitcoin asics you get bfl's website first then some forums posts a few wiki entries and thats it. Heres a perfect example of why there needs to be a website.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1fg1m4/looking_to_buy_a_bitcoin_miner/
If there was a website on what products were available, specs, how to use them, how to order, maybe a list of re-sellers for people that only wanted one. Then this type of thing wouldnt happen. Especially for the blades, they are so bare bones they need support documentation easily available.
I wouldn't be surprised if half the share holders didn't even know asicminer sold hardware until the release of the usb miners.
I just find it daft that a company that has potentially millions of dollars going through its hands doesn't have a website and depends on a community website to make sales and provide support. 

[joris]

Everyone should pick one's niche.

ASICMINER mines and ships mining hardware.

Most other companies in ASIC-mining (hardware) make fancy websites.

Which focus point do you prefer?

[stripykitteh]

Everyone should pick one's niche.

ASICMINER mines and ships mining hardware.

Most other companies in ASIC-mining (hardware) make fancy websites.

Which focus point do you prefer?

I agree, but I also think AM could be vastly more profitable if they had a sales channel outside of this forum. Look how BFL rake in the orders even though they have produced virtually nothing and have pissed-off customers publicly contemplating legal action.

AM don't have to run the channel themselves; they can partner with someone else with experience as a reseller to do it for them.