Bitcoin Forum

So I recently recieved an email from BFL (like many others did) Telling us to Confirm our order.
Well, I did and when I got to my order number in my account, I saw that my Express Priority Shipping has been switched to Standard, and that BFL wants me to pay for express Priority shipping...

They want me to pay Another $115 to get express shipping!!!

I ALREADY PAYED FOR EXPRESS Priority SHIPPING IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! Way back in october 2012!! Wich apparently is translated into Standard shipping

Same thing here, asking $200 (pre-ordered one Jap) for express shipping now...

Wow, that's crappy. Sorry guys. BFL is just a train wreck...

yes me too..
And they increase my fu*king queue order.
from 40xx to 75xx >:(

BFL is dead  >:(.

You got off cheap,  it says $414 to add express shipping here.  I think not!

Moved up in queue. lol  :-X

Express shipping should be free at this point.

this "upgrade to express shipping" Is a toatal fucking cash grab! I already payed for my unit, Express, ALONG TIME AGO, My unit should already be in my hands, Not BFL saying "durr your not on express, give me another $115" for express, BTW, "This wont change anything other than your postal service's speeds, We wont do anything differant"

It seems like they are trying to con everyone out of THIER shipping expenses, I think they underestimated just how much shipping all those units was going to cost them!
I already payed for express, just like many others did, BFL has no right to charge us more money just because they messed up.
AGAIN

Everyone stay calm. Remain in your seats and relax. Breathe.

BFL always does this as an accident or mere incompetence.

Do not panic. BFL_Steven is probably going to fix it....probably.

(Master BFL Shill)

I wonder if they have a shipping method so fast that it arrived months ago!

That would be something. :-)

What about the "Swarms of Locusts" are they not on standby or was the Wheat harvest low this Spring so thats the reason they have now doubled the shipping costs

or

Like the total fail company that they are who is about to chapter 11 ...they find a way to make a larger % profit on the 100 units that they can ship ....(after buring through all the chips they had and also needing to double the chips needed  to meet the performance targets )

The real motivation behind this farce is to get you into accepting the "NO REFUNDS" bullshit with the new "TERMS AND CONDITIONS"

Even @ a load of balony 400 units a day (they could not do 10 if they where lucky) out of the 60000 orders it willtake 10 months to clear the back log

Thanks u BFL for helping make LTC what it is today the thriving true second silver to btc gold ...  8)

Josh & BFL can not lie straight in bed from all the lies and deception they spin ...... two words to you guys  "SUCK IT"

I concur!

(Commander BFL_Shill)

Sir,

BFL (May Or May Not) be shipping by rocketry.

Do you know how much it costs to launch their shuttle from Kansas and still touch down at the local post office. Do you know, SIR?!

I thought so, you don't. So please understand that the huge tiny amount for shipping a 2 kilogram box costs alot when launched from a rocket powered shuttle. (Aerial rocket, not Terrestrial rockets) Where it is then transfered to UPS/FedEx or BurritoMail®.

When it ships by BurritoMail®, $3 dollars is spent for buying 8 carrots for the donkey @ the last mile. $7 Dollars is spent just picking up the dung of that said donkey and placing it in a separate bag from your package. The human being riding the donkey (if any is available at transport) is not paid anything. They are an optional service.

Please understand, you are wholeheartedly and absolutely getting more than you paid for...!

(Master BFL Shill)

My regular shipping is still the same.  but to upgrade to express shipping its like $100.

When you noticed the price increase for shipping, did it cross your mind that the product they are delivering is now twice the size and twice the weight?

Please keep posts down to a small number, I'd like to see how many other people have had thier shipping downgraded
That is really, honestly not our problem, that is compleatly thier fault for having horrifically innacurate assumptions (lets not get specific) when it came to size/weight/cooling for the products.
I do not see why we should have to pay for thier inaccurate premature assumptions about thier product, especially when it comes to the small orders

Sure it all makes sense...

its twice the size.....

twice the weight......

Chews through 500% more power than rated....

Produces half the performance than expected...

And will never be delivered anyway so sure donate to the Josh & Sonny chapter 11 escape fund

I checked my order email from last year:

"Shipping (International Priority ($38))"

Just checked my order on BFL's website (after confirming I still want it):

"Standard Shipping - Only"


Shipping and handling upgrade is quoted as $400 (wtf!), but then the extra amount I would actually have to pay is quoted as only $26.

It seems to me like BFL's system doesn't take into account the previous lower cost of Jalapeno (err), I mean, 5Gh products.  Also does "international priority" mean "standard shipping" in BFL speak?

Their order system has been fucked for months, despite the fact that it was supposed to be fixed ages ago (another thing Jody seems unable to deal with competently).  This is the same system people are supposed to trust when re-confirming their orders if they don't want a refund - there's no way it's not going to be yet another clusterfuck.

Am I surprised?

Additional shipping charges?

Inaccurate initial shipping charges?

10 month wait time?

Power/speed specs off by several factors?

PR people get first units and did not have to pay?

Unprofessional COO of company cussing at customers?


...not one bit.

More let downs and short coming and broken promises to come. Stay tuned.  ::) ::) ::)

Lol im also now at standard shipping and system is demanding $800 for express shipping wtf?!

Where do you see a queue number? all I can see is my order number.

and asicminer ships for free and within a week from payment :-)

Yeah, this is pretty ridiculous. In fact, you'd be better off buying a round trip plane ticket and getting them in person if you knew what day your order was going to be available. Heck, you could probably hire a courier to drive across country for that price.

So now that we have waited a year, they want us to pay for something we already have a receipt for. A extra 120 per unit on top of what we paid the first time is a lot of dough. You can bet it's not next day air either. They told me they were using UPS but it looks like the post office to me. Every time I turn around Butterfly makes some morally, or legally questionable decision. Shipping Jalapenos and Paypal customers out of order position. Now it's pay a extra 10% and you can keep your 3 days shipping or your waiting another week. I can't even image what's coming next from this scandal of a operation. They would never get away with this if they had a actual customer support team.

Customer support team.....why not go straight to the tp and ask the CTO these questions I am sure he will answer and satify all your concerns by 3 simple words

"SUCK IT ARSSHOLE"

or

"Fuck Off Loser"

or

"Shutup you Cocksucker"

...it goes on and on.....  :'(

Please jesus when will this insanity end

@75btc for 10gh

lol

though, even if bfl sat on their hands with all of the btc they got, shouldn't they be able to afford to get these units out of the door? shouldn't the chip orders be scheduled to arrive two months before?

second auction was around 50-55 BTC per piece ;-)

Exactly. I'm starting to worry they will start mining coins themselves. All these unethical decisions they make, it would not be much of a leap. Every decisions seems to be based on whether it will bring in money. I can't even image another company doing the kind of crap they pull.

Wow... someone is getting screwed.

Wow, someone is getting screwed.

Even the pricing does not make sense. Express shipping for the 60GH/s miner with FPGA trade-in is $115. For a regular (non trade-in) 60GH/s miner express shipping is $225. Aren't they both the same physical product?

Un-ethical ...their CEO is a covicted fraudster and conman ...gone to prison or club fed whatever it was

Josh\Inaba there wonderous CTO is also a convicted criminal for selling Cable TV codes or whatever it was

Its a house of never ending lies and deception......having said that

They cant start mining as they will show up on the block chain ..etc

There are so many eyes watching these asshats ..it would be the final end to this long drawn out saga  :'(

 Not only is Josh Zerlan / Inaba their CTO, he's also their COO !!!

 Dude is going to have a really tough time finding another job after Butterfly Labs, due the mountains of impropriety and unprofessionalism that has been so thoroughly documented here.

 Could not happen to a nicer guy.

 ... and dude has the fucking gall to call people who ask harsh/pointed questions "trolls"

 The man has a complete lack of meta-cognition or modicum of self-awareness.

AHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

All these questions! Why can't you guys just pay up and shut up?!

(What Master BFL Shill would have said)

I enjoy watching these regular "BFL doing their professional work" topics. It's hard to believe they do still exist after all the failures on their journey. The demand for BTC ASICs must be higher than any other product in the world.

Two weeks ago my order was on Express Shipping. Logged in today and found - Standard Shipping?! Damn Bastards!

Well, that was my last deal with BFL and I assume it will end like my deal with bASIC Tom - or like the deals some people made with Trendon.

i think the Swarms of Locusts where killed to death because josh and the whole bfl team party and snorted so much that know they dont have money left for shipping

Nope!

Guessing that USPS/UPS hasn't changed their shipping costs and that regardless of the new case size the quoted amount was ample.

From a casual observers standpoint knowing that BFL aren't capable of producing units at the volumes per day initially suggested, I'd imagine by forcing your hand to either pay more for shipping, or agree for a slower postage buys them time to only prioritise those that stump up the extra cash, therefore bypassing the order queue for those that may have paid earlier, but won't cough up (assuming it's most). In essence taking the strain of having to produce as many units as they claim they could per day, but can't. They can blame delayed shipping upon slower postage that you chose. It probably also means they have to legally pay additional for unsociable hours if they have to hire people to work outside or beyond the normal day.

Whatever happens, make sure your estimated shipping cost tally's with the actual cost charged printed on the label by the shipping provider. I'd be interested to see whether it's an accurate reflection...

No poster yet seems to have clicked on the "upgrade shipping" box, so this may be of interest.

I saw the same notice late last night. I couldn't remember whether I had originally ordered express shipping or not, so I thought about the upgrade offer with no particular emotion. I'm not in the U.S. so the standard shipping by U.S.P.S. would be a disaster in terms of lost opportunity cost. They offered FedEx for about $100 more - an easy decision (on the surface), as the cost could easily be recovered in a day of mining.

I went for it. They offered to let me pay with BTC or PayPal. I chose BTC and was transferred to their usual processor who wanted about 0.8 BTC. To my surprise, I got a popup from my qt wallet asking for a large transaction fee - large as a percentage, not as an absolute amount, so still no problem in terms of opportunity cost. The transaction went through totalling around 1.2 BTC. Ouch! Nothing to do with BFL, as far as I know, but weird.

Anyway, I watched the confirmations come in and everything seems fine except that on the BFL site the order still shows "upgrade pending" and "amount due $95".

Phooey. During most of the process, I was thinking that the cart process was going very smoothly and that BFL was getting their act together. Now things seem as murky as ever.

I'm not yet ready to join the troll camp, but I'm not exactly starry-eyed about BFL either.

Gotta pay for those fancy boxes that are irregular shape (as opposed to using the priority flat rate boxes) and cost more to ship than originally thought.  The shape and size of the miners has changed too, so shipping costs WILL change for BFL... they're just giving you the opportunity to pay for their screw-up /sarc

If he's every out of a job I'd hire him in a second based only on how he's abused idiots on here...

+1, that's frikin funny!

Wow, that's awesome... So far, I am the CEO, COO, CTO, head of PR, and Customer Service Manager of BFL.  Damn, I have a lot of hats, no wonder I'm so cranky.

You gotta love trolls who try to sound important and rational when they can't even get basic facts right.  Given that, why would anyone even possibly believe they can get more advanced concepts correct when the basics are so out of whack?

Convicted for selling cable TV... huh, gotta admit, that's a new one. My (lack of) arrest record would seem to indicate differently, but who's needs to bring facts into this?

Who needs facts when you have the FTC

I would tread very carefully bro. Lets not bring the FCC into this.

Also, are you not both COO and CTO ? Sincere apologies if I have not gotten those facts straight.

I may be a "troll asshole customer" in your eyes, but I'll happily eat crow if I'm in error.

If you have proof. post it.  Otherwise, I would not be saying things like this...  Libel and defamation of character is not a good thing to engage in... it can cost you $$$
btw, i'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advise.

You forgot CPO, C3PO and CNO..

Guys, I Specifically stated that i would like to keep the # of posts down to a minimum so that we can keep this thread Clean of trollbanter so we can actually get this issue resolved!
Inaba stepped in here to see wtf was going on with the downgraded shipping, And what does he read? "problem, problem, problem, IM A TROLL, IM TROLLING, FK BFL, ITS INABAS FAULT"

For fuck sakes you fucking trolls!, we are trying to get ISSUES resolved, If you are unaffected by this issue, then dont fucking post here!
I was please to see Inabas username at the head of a post, but when i noticed that All of his attention was fixated on the Trolls in this thread, I cant help but be flagrantly Pissed Off!

My shipping was downgraded too. I thought I was going crazy glad im not. Has anyone got a response from BFL about this?

 What about problems with Upgrading shipping ?! None of my Single SC orders have a button displayed that allows me to upgrade to faster shipping.

 First world problems of the highest order.

Really? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome)
Clearly, this is not BFL's fault but instead it is the fault of people totally unrelated to BFL.
Also, you can't use the BFL forums or support infrastructure to resolve your issue because orange and the letter P.

LMAO! I think this is the funniest thing I've read yet in the epic JOSH VS BITCOINTALK drama.

/stilleatingpopcorn

P.S. I would trying e-mailing them. You'll have much better luck there as Josh only comes here to roll in the mud with his detractors...

Well this topic does have something to do with BFL so the bfl trolls will be out in force. Not much you can do about that. FWIW I never pay for express shipping as it only tends (in my experience) to save one day.. *shrug* I _suspect_ what's going on is that magneto thing they are using for a store front is using a % of the total order for the express shipping.
 

Really?!

Him taking time to post for the trolls, but not for you doesn't tell you anything?! I am not involved with BFL in any way, but I can clearly see a company that is deceitful. Don't blame the trolls.

I can fully agree your view of the stockholm syndrome that MANY BFL orderees have, However you have confused me Very Well with your second scentence, to wich i say, What?, I seems like a scarcastic remark about how BFL has bad support
No there is not much i can do other than simply ASK that people who come here just to bash bfl refrain from doing so.


Yeah this factor really fucking bugs me, Regardless of the trolls thats no excuse to Practically ignore the thread, "Hi im inaba, Im just going to poke my head in, play whack a troll and leave"
Where the hell was the statement of "this is all a massive error" or "blah blah you pay for the new shipping size/weight" or ANYTHING sufficient for that matter!

I would suggest contacting them directly, either by email or if in the US by phone. As it seems any thread that even remotely mentions BFL brings out the trolls in full force..

*sigh*

Now when you have can pay for a round trip ticket to get your order and that is cheaper than standard shipping costs, you know something is very wrong with said company.

Please come by the BFL Forums JackRabbit and/or email office@butterflylabs.com or call to get it straightened out. 

is express shipping supposed to be $258 on a 60 Gh SC Single??

i upgraded but the jump from $34 to $258 seems extreme

You've jumped into this thread twice and still haven't answered anyone's questions Inaba. Why? It could stop the trolls and solve a problem for your infinitely patient customers.

Josh has said multiple times that he comes here mostly for his own amusement and that BFL is not going to try to offer customer support here.  Regardless of what you think of Josh or BFL, they're not the only Bitcoin service which has decided to stop using these forums for engaging their customers.  They have a support forum and there's really no reason for their customers not to use it.

Suggesting that JackRabbit email BFL probably wasn't the best idea, though, as people there seem to be very long delays in getting a response from them via that method at the moment.

SO he has enough time to be entertained as opposed to fulfulling his customer obligations. No wonder their ASICs aren't done and shipped yet.

LOL the writing is on the wall guys. BFL will fold in the months to come if they do not get more customer preorder money to come flooding in.

Well the forums are Down, and I do not like the approach of a One on One conversation, the reason being that a company can easy muzzle people One by One, but as a whole voice, it is much harder to reach a Satisfactory deal for both sides.

For example, you could just "stone wall" anyone who rebuttles about the changed shipping when you get a phone call, or an email.
But if you get a thread of nearly a thousand people screaming "HEY!, YOU CHANGED MY ORDER!" then it becomes MUCH harder to silence them.

I am heavily against one on one conversation when it comes to BFL for this reason, Or almost any company for that matter.

Nevertheless I have sent an email to the listed address.

Ok, but you won't get customer support from BFL on these forums, so... just sayin'.

 ... and your customers get silenced and called trolls on the BFL forums / shoutbox, so... just sayin'.

Josh and JackRabbit.  There are a couple of threads about this over on the BFL forums (I was going to link to them but the forums went down).  Maybe Josh could give an indication of when he'll be able to get around to responding in those threads, which would address JackRabbit's concerns (and the concerns of others similarly affected) in a general way now while he waits for it to be sorted out at an individual level.

My perception is that what people are after is a "here's what's going on and here's how we're going to handle it" statement on the issue.

Wow. That's insane. O.O

Ahh, I see your position now. Gosh that took me too long to figure out that you (may) look at it as "bitcointalk.org is for bitcoins, If you want help with BFL from BFL, Come to our forums"
Please do understand that at the time of me typing this message, the BFL forums are down

Agreed on his job prospects ......tick tick tick ...his time is coming

Narcissism will blind anybody totally and completely

COO & CTO of a bunch of convicts and fraudsters...its not like we are talking about a fortune 500 company are we

WTF is in kansas anyway except for "Dorothey" ... 

Good luck with that ...see how that works in the real world....lol

They're up for me now.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/2337-why-did-you-downgrade-our-shipping.html

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/2301-express-shipping-%24400-gold-pterodactyls.html

Also, in this thread a people are complaining about shipping being downgraded when they thought the original price already included express shipping.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/2250-may-1st-announcement-discussion-thread-3.html

I must confess, as much as I disapprove of Josh and his attitude (though maybe my opinion is colored as a Batch 3 Avalon customer), on this particular thread on this particular page,  Josh comes across as a helpful caring representative of a company trying to assist a customer in a very reasonable and useful way.

Have to give credit where credit is due... Bravo!

Maybe his account got hacked?  ;D

What bugs me about the BFL forums is the Constant "your post will not be visable untill moderator approval"
Thats just blatent censoring and muffling of the peoples voices for crying out loud!
AKA "you cannot talk in public untill it has been privately approved for public viewing"

Well look at what this thread devolved to? So you are surprised they moderate their forum? Hell when you sign up here, you are trapped to one board for a time. Note I'm not saying I agree/disagree with the policy over there. But it is their forum, their sandbox if you will, their rules. Most 'corporate' support forums are heavily moderated, that's just the way of things.

Doesn't really matter what you post over there on the forum, they VERY rarely respond. You have better luck with twitter it seems.

BTW, the same downgrade to shipping and asking for some over priced "express shipping"(They claim the new price will not expedite you order, which means they are lying to your face about the express shipping cost) happened to me to.

I have been following this bfl stuff for a month now. Reading what has gone on really worried me...that anyone who would do any preorder with them now has got to be crazy. Now this shipping thing, it's like they are really pulling out all the stops to get as much money as possible.  I realize a lot of u r hoping the company comes through but u basically all got ripped off. I'm a lawyer and u absolutely have a class action suit against them...which surely would just put them out of business. Anyways just be careful guys don't get blinded by greed.

Yeah, you're a lawyer that uses "u" and "r" in the place of words and your grammar is atrocious.  Sure, we believe you... no really.

First time I have agreed with Inaba.

Agreed. This shipping news seems like a deliberate cash grab.

I am also affected by this. All my orders were downgraded from Express to Standard. I upgraded the oldest order and paid an extra $162 via BitPay thinking it would upgrade it from the original Express to Overnight or some such.
To make matters worse, the order now shows on the system as $162 still due.

LoL - some people are never happy.

OMG BFL IS SCAM

followed by:

X MONTHS - NO SHIP

followed by:

OMG SHIPPING COST MORE

You guys really make me tired, you were smart enough to get in with pre-orders but somehow not smart enough to know what you were buying? You stuck around through all the FUD without canceling and now are pissed because after product revisions you need to pay more for express shipping?

Just accept the basic shipping, they're covering it out of a sense of obligation. You've been waiting months, a few more days isn't going to kill you.

WOW! I think someone is getting screwed. Don't you?

WOW! Thinking someone got screwed.

One would also have to believe the protagonist was actually engaged in thought right? From what I can discern that does not seem to be the case for this person.

Stop being a grammar Nazi, deflecting relevant questions and answer the f-ing questions about why the shipping is so f-ing expensive A-hole.

I too had my shipping changed from "Express" to "Standard". It has been like that for months and noticed it was changed this week. What bs are they trying to pull here? I even sent them a ticket about it. I don't care if I 'confirmed' the new product specs, if BFL goes down, they're taking a lot of people with them. Considering BFLs chronicled incompetence, I doubt this would be a hard case to prove fraud if they go bankrupt. I really really hope that's not what ends up happening though. I just don't understand how any company in business can be so standoffish about they customer base.

 ... and you are the competent and experienced CTO and COO of a company that acts in a professional manner or knows what they are doing ? Sure, we believe you... no really.

Inaba/BFL Pattern #1:

Make a truthful statement exposing a fact about BFL's actions that customers/community do not like.

Get a response of "You can't spell, fuck you, lying piece of shit, ROFL LOL, ..."

I think he is full of it as well, but I know plenty of lawyers who type that way. It is unreal.

I was typing on an iPod.  Guys, I wasn't typing a legal pleading here I was posting on a board.  Interesting that I was attacked for my grammar though.  I guess Inaba didn't like what I said and just attacked my grammar to "discredit" me.  I am really surprised that BFL has kept it going this long, but sounds like Paypal and Amex are finally putting the pressure on.  We'll see what happens, maybe not today, or tomorrow, but eventually I doubt this will end well. 

 Hypothetically speaking, in your professional opinion, what would the costs be involved for a class-action suit, and what would your case/stance be for prosecution ?

 Hypothetically speaking, of course.

 Thought exercise, you know ?  ;)

I am not speaking for him, but just wanted to point out something.  First you reference a "class action suit," which is a civil action, and then use the term "prosecution" which is a criminal action.  I would not be surprised to see both at some point, but you need to be clear which answer you are looking for.

My express shipping also got downgraded to standard , it seems to be accross the board , ridiculous ... is anyone's order still showing the express shipping without having to pay up insane amounts ?

This is an upside. Some people will not pay the additional fee, and all that hashing power will be delayed coming onto the network.  ;-)

When people were imported into the new system, everyone was put in express shipping.  Express shipping wasn't available prior to February, so everyone has been moved back to where they should have been.  No ones shipping was downgraded.

My shipping is priority mail as stated in my order's email, if "Standard Shipping - Only" is the priority mail that's cool.

Is standard shipping on my order status = priority mail (in US) ?

Generally in a lawsuit the plaintiffs (that would be you) don't have to pay anything upfront.  It's at the end that the plaintiff's attorneys would get paid out of any proceeds from the recovery.  Therefore your only cost would be time and energy (and perhaps some notoriety?)  The hardest thing would be finding a lawyer who would be willing to take on this case, as it's somewhat complicated.  I'm actually surprised a lawyer hasn't tried contacting some of you BFL customers before.  I mean maybe they have, and I just don't know about it.  I'm new to the Bitcoin community. 

You also fail to mention that the class members end up with essentially NOTHING as the lawyers take half of the judgement, and then the rest of it is usually divvied up among the actual plantiffs. The majority of the people talking about lawsuits would not be members of the class anyway, since they didn't buy anything. Those who did buy something have the choice of requesting a refund, or waiting for their product.

All of the sensible buyers have done that. With the exception of a few special-kind-of-idiot types, the only people who are still trolling BFL with lawsuit threats are people who never bought anything in the first place. And then, of course an occasional ambulance chasers, or troll claiming to be an ambulance chaser...

What exactly you are trying to claim for damages in this hypothetical lawsuit?

BFL honours refunds, plain and simple.  There is not one single person who can verifiably say they didn't get a refund so you can't claim they didn't refund you. Pain and suffering? That's a joke and you would get laughed out of court. Missed opportunity to profit on the coins you didn't mine if you had had them when they promised? Again, unprovable and discussed ad nauseum elsewhere. No leg to stand on.

It's a pre-order, in development, common sense is that you wait until it's done or get your refund.

This discussion is ridiculous.

I'm also like a lawyer an shit. I'll beat the shit out of anyone in court. I'm like the baddest lawyer in the hood, and I'm keeping it real.

Plaintiffs in a class action sometimes do recover things of value, although I agree usually plaintiff's attorneys receive way more than is "fair." 

To determine if there is any action against BFL I would think you'd need to see what BFL's representations were when people were placing their pre-orders.  Was there any contract etc. as well?

I'm still trying to figure out what the basis would be? Sue them over what? Then what remedy would you request from the court?

are you feeling ok? I mean this post was helpful.

you should go get checked out.

maybe bfl needs more free pot fridays or free beer fridays or something? I dunno

Don't post lies, BS or be a dick and you get helpful answers.  Pretty simple cause and effect.

 ... but, you post lies, bullshit, and are arguably one of the biggest dicks on these forums, so, it's quite the viscous circle you have created, huh ?

 Just thought I would take the liberty of showing you a mirror.

I refer you to the sentence you responded to:  "To determine if there is any action against BFL I would think you'd need to see what BFL's representations were when people were placing their pre-orders.  Was there any contract etc. as well?"

Then you could have breach of contract, fraud, misrepresentation, interference in business relations, among others.  Listen I'm not saying there IS a cause of action against BFL, I started just by saying I would be really careful about buying anything from them now, or paying them any more money for this shipping.

I like the way you think.

(Master BFL Shill)

Yeah, what he said!

Remain totally calm while asking questions and you'll soon see your answers in thoughtful replies. I promise!

(Master BFL Shill)

Your post brought sausages to mind. Sausages in a circle. It's time to break the sausage cycle!

(Master BFL Shill)

Do you really think that? I picture most miners like cutthroat pirates. Slit your moms throat to get more hashrate. They are not likely to quit the queue unless there's a viable alternative.

When I am in my Master BFL Shill costume, never trust what I say.

It is my alter ego.  :D

Don't trust him, it is a total LIAR! >:(

(Master BFL Shill)

That's REALLY important, if true, and I hope/assume it is.

Josh - please, please keep posting this kind of factual stuff, rather than nipping at the heels of your tormentors.

You all know this, right?... "Never wrestle a pig in a mudhole. You both get dirty, and the pig enjoys it."

My corollary is "From the outside, it always looks like two pigs are wrestling."

Wow I love this. Conditional quality customer service. Customer gives you money and based on how you like or don't like customer responses you will judge them individually? Wow....just wow.

Perhaps now we are all justified in judging you as the scummy fuck you are based on your lies and deceitful tactics to sucker in more customers to keep your ponzi going.

 This sums up Josh Zerlan's delusional professional outlook quite succinctly. "Conditional Customer Service".

 And you know what the saddest part about all of that, is that in Josh's mind, he probably feels 100% unwaveringly justified in having that attitude due to a complete and utter lack of self-awareness and a firm mental rooting in his own virtual reality.

 I mean, if he's going to have his megalomaniacal temper tantrums and silence customers on their forums / shoutbox with thousands of dollars in preorders, then there is just no dealing with the man. Professionally or otherwise.

 Dude has "loose-cannon" written all over him. It's people like him that sink companies unless management gets things in check pronto.

 ... and remember folks. Josh himself recently admitted that these forums are not relevant to their business at all, which begs the question "Why does he continue posting here if he does not consider this place important ? Why does he continue advertising here ?"

 Calling Josh Zerlan a "scummy fuck" is a pretty accurate salvo.

 Josh Zerlan is not aware of things enough to know this. In fact, he fancies himself the fattest sow in the mudhole.

So, to break up the lovefest for josh this is what I'm understanding.

Early buyers put orders in. Shipping said express but they didn't pay for express.

From my understanding these people paid the regular rate, and not the express rate other people paid and now want express because it said express previously?

curious as to the facts and not this BS name calling.

How about you let the people who had the shipping issue answer. You have very little understanding besides your strange obsession with josh. Should get some help for that.

hey dodo, im asking. you aren't their representative although you think you are some kind of advocate. This isn't your forum. I can ask what i want jsut liek you can continue to stalk josh like a wierdo.

Don't drink the kool aid. It makes you less lucid.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/2301-express-shipping-%24400-gold-pterodactyls.html

I drink cool aid all the time, it doesn't make me less lucid. May give me diabtes, but what the hell you live once.

What does that link have to do with what I asked. I'm just asking if these people paid a express shipping rate previously.

Controversy is solved(not really, but explained) by comparing what these people paid for "express" to what other people paid for regular after the express option was added.

I'll look through again haven't seen any numbers to compare.

Who's to tell him otherwise?  He has a stable of suckers willing to sit there while he pisses in their face, and they come back and ask for more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KnCwLDSip8 ("Shills" when pissed on)

VS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_M_PRotKQBM ("Trolls"" when pissed on)

Sorry, I couldn't help it.

Ok, Why do my receipts from when I ordered last year say express shipping on them if I don't have express shipping? Why would I need to pay a additional 3k just to have a handful of boxes shipped a few hundred miles? Are we only talking about express shipping through usps? There one of the worst ways to ship packages. Unless the new singles are the size of a average car, I don't know what's going on here.

WOW! Someone got screwed again I think?

I'm in a generous mood.  I'll save Josh the trouble of his inevitable response.


See?  I'm even speedier at providing standard BFL customer support than they are.

You're welcome.

Is the Express shipping with Courier*²   ? and VAT ?

Thats explain the extreme price for it ...






*²
Courier, guide, travel companion, relay, companion,Messenger, bringer,

 Now that you mentioned it, I went through all my previous orders, and I never did receive email invoices for any of my orders.

 Hrmph.

 My orders are definitely in my BFL Customer account, and I recall seeing an invoice in the web browser after using BitPay, but nothing was ever emailed out best I can tell.

 Only thing I can find in my email search is this email form response once my order was processed. No formal email invoice from either Bit-Pay or Butterfly Labs for any of my orders.


<sup>Thank you for placing your BitForce Single SC order.

This is confirmation that your order was successfully placed in our system.

If you've chosen an instant payment method and have completed that transaction, then your order is confirmed.  If you've chosen a payment method that requires additional information such as a bank wire transfer instructions, please stand by for an email from customer service within the next business day.

Kind regards,

Customer service team

BF Labs Inc.</sup>

You just login to the site and use your order number to view the receipt. I have them printed out, they all say express shipping. If you login and look now though, they have all been switch to standard shipping. There asking for $610 dollars to ship just one of my packages, that's on top of what I gave them for express shipping the first time.

If you paid prior to February for shipping, you didn't pay for express shipping.  All shipping was called express shipping prior to that, which is what the USPS calls it.  Express shipping is now and upgrade from standard shipping, which is still USPS's Express Shipping. 

Don't blame me because the USPS calls their regular shipping "express shipping."

OK, I take back everything.

I was duped. BFL is fucking customers again!

HOLY SHIT. Someone sound the alarm. They are bending us over and asking customers for EVEN MORE Money on express shipping they already paid for. This is what I get for listening to the hype.

@ Miniternj

START PANIC'ing

We are getting "double tapped" on shipping.

Oh wait, (grasps at straws),

Are you saying the old Standard Shipping = USPS Priority Mail? (3 to 5 days ~guaranteed~)

Are you saying that the old Express Shipping = USPS "Express"? (1 to 3 day guaranteed)

vs

The "New Express" = "USPS Overnight" (a different level of Express Shipping as it is guaranteed "next day")

Is this the correct interpretation? (serious question)

P.S. in the next few days, I am about to become a sizable customer. (Well....if things pan out)

Express is not exclusive to usps. It's a actual term. Obviously you guys know that, why else would you change it at the last minute? You could at least charge a reasonable price, these are price gouging rates. After delays, no customer support, missing specs and shipping orders out of position. You could at least do right by the customers this time... It's doesn't help offering a second shipping option anyway. It's just a last minute way to rake in more profits. And no one wants to go through usps anyway, they have the worst service of anyone.

Unfortunately, I have been looking and there only appears to be 1 express mail service for USPS.

I confused international service rates with domestic service rates.

!) Domestically, there is only 1 type of express service offered by USPS.
USPS Express Mail (Overnight): https://www.usps.com/ship/express-mail.htm

!) Internationally, there are 2 types of Express service offered by USPS.
USPS Express Mail International: 3 to 5 day service
USPS GXG: 1 to 3 day service (via FedEx)

https://www.usps.com/ship/express-mail-international.htm


No matter how I look at it. Inaba is simply not being accurate. Take a look.

Express Mail Domestic Rates (.CSV):
https://www.usps.com/shipping/em-retail.csv

Express Mail International Rates (.CSV):
https://www.usps.com/shipping/emi-retail.csv

Don't matter to me I dont care about expedited shipping for my order. But hey it's their right to panic/bitch. I was just wondering if they actually paid for expedited shipping at expedited shipping rates.

So, if I take it all together that would mean that if one is in the US that all their pre-February orders will be USPS Express mail, hence subject to overnight delivery?

You know what?  I did not set up the original shipping and I don't know anything about the original shipping.  If you didn't pay for overnight shipping (which you didn't) then you aren't getting overnight shipping. If you paid for shipping prior to February, you paid for standard shipping and that's what you're getting, whatever name you want to call it.  Chances are, if you paid for shipping after February, you also paid for standard shipping.  There is no one that paid "extra" for expedited shipping prior to that.

If you want to upgrade your shipping, upgrade your shipping. If you don't, then don't, it's as simple as that.  You can call the shipping anything you want, it doesn't matter to me.

No, there's another charge for that.  And if you want Josh to personally piss in your face, that's extra too.

That's good, but there's another messy bit that I hope you can clarify.

I upgraded my shipping a couple of days ago, paid through Bitpay from the BFL site and saw my order status change to:

Shipping Method
Express Shipping - Only

Yea! However, there is another new box that says "Upgrade Pending" and another that says "Amount due $95.00" even though I paid.

I gather from chatter on the BFL forums that others are seeing this kind of thing also.

I'm hoping you can post a generic clarification for people in this situation. So far, I've not sent individual help requests when the issue looks generic - I always look here and in BFL forums for answers to issues that seem to be generic.

Thanks

Based on the USPS menu it looks like the only other 2 viable options are Priority Mail (2-3 days conus) or Standard Post (2-8 days conus).  For those that may be on the fence about upgrading shipping it would be good to know exactly which service they are currently subject to in order to make an educated decision.

A cash grab huh? You mean other than the fact that we don't want to offer upgraded shipping and we have resisted for a long time? I had to push fairly hard to get it at all because so many people kept demanding it. No upgraded shipping is a pain in the ass and we don't want to offer it at all.

Like I said, take it or leave it. We would rather not upgrade your shipping as it incurs too much overhead, so please don't upgrade.

http://www.stamps.com/usps/postage-rate-increase/

I had the same experience of paying the BTC for the shipping upgrade, and it still shows as payment due.

So why are there no waffles here, I want some damn waffles god dammit.

As a person who receives a lot of mail by USPS flat rate boxes (but typically not overnight), I take USPS Express to mean "overnight". There is priority and there is express. I'm not sure what the different tiers are in other mailing methods. Good luck with your problems.

Hi,

I experienced this as well. Upgraded shipping via BitPay, everything looked good, I got the green confirmation that payment was received in full and everything, but now more than 3 days later, it still says I have payment due. My order number is quite low (16xx), so I expect shipping to start soon and I would hate for it to be delayed because of some error in the system. Do these upgrades and payments need to be verified manually?

 Josh, since you are answering questions in this thread, could you please take a moment to address this? At least we are being civil and polite about it, and I feel it is a legitimate concern. Thanks in advance for any clarification :)

OMFG I LOLed hard.


Bravo. Spot on BFL customer service.

Dude they are going to be driving their Joogie car to you with your order and hand deliver them.

Hence the uber duper shipping costs.

"Express Shipping" the way to ship BFL ASICs....by broken slow ass development and then joogie car.

It appears BFL is realizing only now what the immortal words of Biggy Smalls eluded to way back in 1997: "Mo' money, mo' problems."  Only second to Tupac's double platinum album the same year:  "Xpress shipping iz overnight 2 U muthafuckaz"

FTFY

The writing is on the wall. Exorbitant shipping costs on top of original shipping costs + all the promises of power/speed all down the toilet?

As I been saying give BFL 4-6 months (give or take a few months) and they will implode if they do not rake in enough NEW customer preorder money to pay for Existing ASIC orders for EXISTING INVESTORS/Pre Order Customers.

Point the finger everywhere else but yourself.  :P

Standard shipping has netted your customers 10 month wait, broken promises, excuses, delays, ...

So yeah I agree adding in "EXPRESS" shipping likely will not help get customers their orders shipped in any timely manner anyway.

Does express shipping include the graphic designed box or a plain thin brown cardboard one? Also, is styrofoam padding included?

What kind of shipping is expected to be used for all the trade-ins?

I just figured out why an increase in shipping cost is needed. During the interim of designing the rigs, the swarm of locust unionized, increasing their pay scale, not counting the pension fund and health insurance costs.

But how do you want your syrup delivered?

Express or Regular?

For the express French Canadians will use the flying Canoe and be there in no time with the syrup.
For regular well your guess as good as most.

If you ordered it Express originally we will still need you to pay twice as much, because you know the Flying Canoe, well we just got it painted and we added a few paddles to make the shipping go faster and patched a few leaks with the pine tar.

See our EXPRESS delivery below.

http://www.brewpalace.com/Images/Beer/Unibroue-Maudite.jpg

Remember if you make a deal with the devil to get something delivered EXPRESS you are going to have pay with your SOUL.


-------------

Seriously though BFL is certainly playing fast and loose with the truth YET AGAIN. Someone should call 60 Minutes and let them do an expose or the local news to have someone bust these guys. They need to be shamed into doing the right thing for their customers it is obvious they do not care and will take every advantage to screw over their customers. Better Business Bureau anyone?

Same here.  >:(  I think 88$ is enough for express shipping ?

With all do respect, BFL needs the BBB to slap them in the face, Who else is going to help fill out complaints and requests for reports?
If you are, It would be most gracious of you to provide the information that we will need to file a complaint (such as thier place of business in kansas, etc)

I would defeintly love to see josh go "Heres a quater, now go by yourself a fucking clue" to a member of the BBB investigation team.

BBB is a joke. I've contacted them before for a problem i had with BestBuy, most useless and wasteful organization ever. Google and you will see why BBB is useless for about everything and should just be shutdown.

If you are too lazy to look the cliff notes are that the BBB just sends your complaints to.... wait for it... BFL. They keep rating and what not but who the fuck cares about that.

Perhaps you should tell us your experiance against BestBuy, Seeing as how they are a Major retailer, One complaint is really not going to do much.
Get a landslide of the same complaint and an investigation gets launched.

Verses BFL, A startup company BLATENTLY bending the SHIT out of the rules, "ASIC's are in the final stage of developement, PREORDER NOW!" That was... What... Nearly 10 months ago?!!?!?! And they are still developing and revising the boards!.

They conned Thousands into being Investors with no return, Rather than people actually preording a 80% compleated product.
They had almost nothing more than estimates and assumptions when they started advertising thier products.

False Advertising to say the fucking least

Seriously. Google BBB is a scam and you'll see 1000000's of stories. I'm trying to tell you BBB is a scam itself, lol.

Let me know your order numbers, I will be happy to get your refund taken care of right away.

I noticed that you Dodged my request for you to explain your story, tell me why i should believe you?
"Because a million people cant be wrong, Go look at google"
They said a Very simmilar thing about God, Religion, How the earth is flat, How the sun revolves around us, how its impossible to fly, And so on.
They CAN be wrong, When i sent the BBB after my local computer repair store (fucking chop shop) they were labeld "Closed untill further notice" for atleast two weeks, (i didnt bother to check after it had passed two weeks of being Closed with a big red sign, so i dont know when they reopened)

Do i know that something interally at that business was changed? No.
Did the BBB do something? It sure as hell looked like they did

I didn't dodge it. This isn't the bestbuy complaint forum. I'm just telling you the real facts. go ahead waste your time with BBB idc. Your case sounded like coincidence to me, just a shitty business going out of business. Facts are the BB will contact the business you complaiend aobut and wait for a reply. If they don't get one they just update the rating. thats all they are NOT a government entity and have no pwoers to do shit about shit.

edit:
don't believe me? read their own faq section. See how many different ways that have to say they cant really do anything using fancy double speak.

http://www.bbb.org/us/bbb-faqs/

also for added sunday entertainment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo8kfV9kONw

So you're saying we should contact the BBB then. Ok.

Inaba/Josh, this is the damn issue, you constantly go "Dont like it? Dont buy it." Well we already bought it, and you know that
Nobody with a preorder is going to cancel now seeing that you guys have shipped a few real units, you know that.
Its not your product that we have an issue with, its BFL's company that most of us have issues with.

Basically, we prepayed for a nice product, and are getting shit all over by BFL's PR, way to many delays, quite rude, false statements, and whateverthefuck bugs you personally.
You friggin know that you have our balls in a vicegrip and because of that you're in a postion to Be all "up on a highhorse", but you dont need to act like it for fuck sakes.

Sure while you are at it contact the chamber of commerce. They'll send a worthless letter as well.

Would you stop with the trollish shenanigans? Some people acutally fucking care about How a business is run
Im saying that people should contact SOMEONE for crying out loud, Clearly the whole Cop investigation didnt go anywhere, police arent going to give a crap about this.
If everyone in the fucking world just kept going "Oh durr no point, i wont make a differance" Then you could end up with shit products because nobody left feedback about failures/crashes  Making the company look Failure Free and Complaint Free, wich makes them look good. When really, your living in a fantasy world like North Korea

This can even be broken down into the values of a voting system in metaphor for complaints, Yeah OFCOURSE ONE fucking vote doesnt make a differance but Nixon won by a single vote

Complaining and Bitching is seriously one of the only ways you're going to get something to change, thats just how its always been.
Put it into Any fucking context, you'll see that if something is Never complained about, has NO record of failures, Then the thing looks good to go.

Videogame industry anyone?
How about movies and films?

If you dont complain, then they dont think they are doing anything wrong, and in turn feel asif they are doing things right, because hell, if your doing something wrong you think someone would complain right?

Use this

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/FTC_Wizard.aspx?Lang=en

Huh? I really could care less what you do. But when I see someone write 2 paragraphs thinking the BBB will help them, I gotta say something when I know otherwise.
See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo8kfV9kONw and tell me if your opinion of the BBB has changed.

Josh, I don't want a refund, but could you please comment on why so many of us, who actually paid for the shipping upgrade with BitPay, still owe money according to your website? BitPay payment went through with no problems, but my order is not updating and still has the same amount due. I have a low order number and expect shipping soon, and this has me worried. It has been 4 days like this now and no response from customer service. Please, could you just look into it?

A lot of people don't know they have to confirm order's again. I just found out myself. Will i be pushed down the list because of this?  

I see your point, and I agree. Thankyou for voicing you're opinion providing a reason for your disposition towards the BBB.
Has my opinion of the BB changed since viewing that video? Yes.
I am saddened by what I saw in the video, Just goes to show that pretty much anyone can be payed off to say things.

Again, Im not saying that people should contact and complain to the BBB, But they should complain and contact SOMEONE.
If they didnt, then the company isnt going to think that they are doing something wrong

See, I wasnt trolling. i was just trying to give you information. Check with your state, some have consumer assistance sites.
for ex. http://www.njconsumeraffairs.gov/ocp/ for my state.

 Josh, throw me a bone here... Do you at least recognize how completely unprofessional and anti-customer this sort of attitude is ?
 
 Do you even care ?
 
 I mean, I'm not telling you how to run your business, but you are playing an extremely dangerous game with this sort of brazen attitude.

 You are essentially telling everyone here on these forums "We have you, our customers, bent over, and you just need to keep taking it with this Kong Dong of Penetration +2. Fuck you. I don't care about your orders or your business. We'll happily refund your money because we have more masochistic suckers lined up to fill the vacuum of your refund."

 And you are the COO of Butterfly Labs ?

 Am I far off ?

Don't ask for a refund.

Contact Paypal:

https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_contact-phone
https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_contact-general

Tell them you have paid for express shipping, the company refuses to honor it's invoice/statement. Then tell them this is being forced on all customers abroad with this company. Paypal will grab it's nutcracker and get this straightened out. They will likely tell BFL to honor their agreement as per their invoices.

If you are talking about being bent over, make sure someone else gets bent over instead, on legitimate grounds.

Paypal has a list of what "Express" means. BFL is unlikely to get away with "redefining what Express means" by itself. If it were "Expedited" then BFL would have a leg to stand on. But since they didn't use that word, they are hung by the balls for the bad wording in their invoice.

Go around the Rep. When people did it, things got moving. So simply do it again until you get justice. The power to do something is in you guys (the customers). You guys/gals simply choose to never exercise it.

Same story with BitPay:

1-855-4BITPAY (1-855-424-8729)
info@bitpay.com

Stop being victims! Call and tell them you need to TALK to someone about "this". *Insist* they look into it ASAP.

Sadly this is probobly going to turn into a definition war, My invoice says Priority Shipping, Ordered in October 2012

The newly generated one or the old one from the old system?

Its what my email response says from the original order date, The email is old, From when i purchased the preorder

If that is what the original order says, then why do you believe you should get Express shipping?

*Drops mic*
*Throws hands in the air*
*Walks off stage*

My original email order also says 'priority' not 'express'.

Also, a quick look at the USPS website clearly makes a distinction between 'Priority Mail® › Fast and affordable shipping for documents and packages.' and 'Express Mail® › Overnight delivery to most U.S. addresses or your money back.'

Anyone who ordered on BFL was always getting 'priority' - the option to upgrade to 'Express' was added recently and does cost more, and was only added because customers were requesting it...

Some of the posts (e.g. on reddit) are particularly disingenuous - saying they are being charged '$400' when this is clearly the cost of the whole order (including the mining rig).  It's no wonder Josh gets so frustrated by posts on this forum.

Will

Oh and Josh should be frustrated?

LOLz the thousands upon thousands of customers still waiting for their orders to be delivered are the ones with a justified state of being frustrated.

What is funny is there is not as many updates as there once were before. "shipping soon, next week, next week,...just a little longer"

lol

Those of you ordering BFL products now, you will likely not be able to recoup your investment costs by the time BFL eventually gets to delivering your order.

*Clap, Clap, Clap Clap Clap clapclapclapclapclapclap*
Just recently saw his Post about it being Not Possible to even order express shipping before feburary
Inaba, You could've just pointed to your own words and shut everyone up *eyeroll* I'd call you a jerk, but this was all a massive misunderstanding on my/our parts thinking that Priority meant express (or something higher than standard atleast)

Unless someone has proof on an invoice or in writing somewhere that they were supposed to get Express shipping and it is not being honored...then I will have to say Inaba has the clear "Win".

Hes right when he says they don't have to offer any Express Shipping. *Priority* is not *Express*. Never has been, never will be.

LOL but the glaring fact is that Priority is not Standard either.

Mhmmmmmmm thats true, So where does this leave us now?

What if they have a screenshot that says 'express shipping'?

Thats true, but if you have ever shipped with USPS, the only way they can send a multi-pound order is with Priority mail.

First class would be impossible. Book rate would get the devices confiscated (but would be supremely cheap...mail fraud).

Parcel Post is the same price as Priority. Sooo....that pretty much only leaves priority shipping as a method of sending.

=================

Now if josh were a genius, which is debatable, were to make custom boxes that fit into a flat rate Express package, that would be a solution. Though I doubt those Flat Rate boxes are all that big.

https://store.usps.com/store/browse/uspsProductDetailMultiSkuDropDown.jsp?categoryNavIds=catGetMailingShippingSupplies%3asubcatMSS_ExpressMail&categoryNav=false&navAction=push&navCount=0&productId=P_EMFRB1&categoryId=subcatMSS_ExpressMail

https://store.usps.com/store/browse/uspsProductDetailMultiSkuDropDown.jsp?categoryNavIds=catGetMailingShippingSupplies%3asubcatMSS_ExpressMail&categoryNav=false&navAction=push&navCount=0&productId=P_DEMPMFRB1&categoryId=subcatMSS_ExpressMail

These are the only two boxes that I would see maybe fitting the size and shape.

Express international (flat rate) is sometimes approximately the same cost as international priority. (Depends on Size)

If it was paid, then yes, that would qualify. You'd have a legitimate claim.

paying $258 to ship one single sc a few states away is where it leaves us.  i don't really care what the shipping offers are called, they're too damned high.

Josh, will you be able to send a "Your shipment will be handled within the next ten days" mail or something like that?

It would be useful to determine whether or not I want express shipping upgraded or simply not give a shit :D

Of course not. You have to make a guess by throwing a dart at a board blindly to see if you hit the jackpot.

It's a gamble and he will not tell you anything anymore given how many fails on his time predictions he made.

Wit flat rate, I would say that priority is synonymous with standard. I doubt they're doing flat rate, but I can't think of another set of shipping tiers where express means standard. So at least for the "downgrade" issue here, it looks like this is much ado about nothing.

My advice?  Unless you're going to get a refund, if you have a gripe with this issue, wait until you get the box.  These scumbags at BFL are clearly not above retaliating against anyone who complains about their scummy and illegal practices.

We are gathered here today...

http://imgs.xkcd.com/blag/rms_katana.jpg

(I was hunting an image depicting the day RS went nutsy-cuckoo, but opted for this as the humorist aside.)

Another week gone by...BFL still has not delivered to their customers.

LOL

I'm curious if they wont deliver to their first customers for ASICs by the 1 year mark in June.

You keep jinx'ing them!

You keep saying "I hope" they will deliver by "xxxxx" thereby making the jinx take effect.

Next thing you know, they will finally pack the delivery truck on May 29th and the wheels will fall off as it starts to take off.

You need to stop the jinx....hyjinx.

"Price gouging is a pejorative term referring to a situation in which a seller prices goods or commodities much higher than is considered reasonable or fair." See BFL.

https://i.imgur.com/ENHoAIJ.png


which April they mean  ??? ??? ??? ??? .

April, 2015.

Putting everything else a side. I would really like to know why some SC singles cost 10% more to ship express while others cost 20% more. I realize that 90-95% of the additional charge has nothing to do with actual shipping expenses being passed to the customer. I still don't see how shipping of identical products could very in price by hundreds of dollars...

"Price gouging is a pejorative term referring to a situation in which a seller prices goods or commodities much higher than is considered reasonable or fair." See BFL.

Fuzzy Math. (since they rid the fuzzy date game, but still wants to play with fuzzy-wuzzy)

Cashflow problems = ponzi


They are struggling to get new suckers to pay off the original suckers. Simple scam setup.

Not rocket science despite all of the Josh's statements claiming "MAKING ASIX IS HARD".

My dashboard page at BFL has changed today, I believe. A new (I think) clickable box says "Pay Upgrade", which I won't use since I already upgraded several days ago. The "view order" page still shows "Express Shipping - Only" but it still shows an amount due that ignores my BitPay payment. Has this happened to others now also? Holographic or peterepeat?...

 

If they have the same problem as ADL, then the truth will be revealed on May 10th 2013....

(repeat until beer BFL rig arrrives)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci77llH0hy4

I think BFL customers may want to start the song and everyone can join in. Or post your version to YouTube and let BFL know that it is unacceptable to be waiting... waiting oh so long. Feel free to change the words and put your own spin on it. We don't wait for BEER why should we wait on BFL?

Yeah, same thing here and it's really frustrating. Writing an email to BFL asking them to look into it is probably our best bet, but response time is really slow and if testing and assembly goes well this week, I would expect my order to ship not long after. I really don't want my order delayed because of this. All we can do is contact them and hope they get it sorted out I guess. My patience with BFL is running out to be honest, but it's not like I'm going to cancel my order now, so close to the finish line. I just wish they would take better care of their customers. Good luck to you getting it sorted btw, I know your pain.

Thanks. Good luck to you also! I just submitted a ticket. Sigh. They are their own worst enemy (but the trolls don't help).

Yes this happened to me also. BitPay have confirmed the transaction. BFL have not returned email or ticket.

I just noticed a thread at the BFL forum where about sixteen people report problems (May 5th to May 7th) - with some minor variations on the theme of attempted upgrades to shipping not being recorded on the BFL order page after payment was made.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/2372-order-stuck-limbo-bfl-please-help.html

Two days and no responses from any staff ?

And Josh wonders why he gets trolled so viciously ?

There was a response from BFL AM Dave 05-06-2013, 10:37 AM "We have updated our website to allow you to login to your account and pay for the upgrade if you have chosen to do so. When you view your orders, you can choose "Pay Upgrade" and you can choose the method of payment you want to use. So if you chose Bitcoin initially and now want to pay with PayPal, you can do that. We apologize for the inconvenience."

It didn't seem to address the issue on most peoples' minds, namely that they had paid but did not see that their order status showed the payment. That was/is my issue, and it seems to be a common one.

It is just a matter of time before the masses of customers not getting their devices or customer service they deserve turn viciously on BFL...and that is the beginning of the end.

Update: Jody from Butterfly Labs returned my email and requested the BitPay receipt reference. They have now updated my order to "Processing" showing as fully paid. :)

It is quite funny to think that if most of the fails BFL have had, were absolutely not intentional and everyone pretty well meaning there... think of the stress they must be in. Fun place to work :D

My former boss, an incredibly successful strategic consultant, told me one thing: "Schrankwand, if you ever work for a company, make sure that company is the black numbers. Quit, once they are in the red. Red numbers for more than a year, that means hell for employees."

I know what it means.. $1000 to ship 4 singles is more then unreasonable. That's on top of what we paid the first time.. Acting like it's a hassle and there just doing it as a favor to us is just insulting. That's 20% of what they charged for the units themselves.

Congratulations. That's very encouraging. No change to mine yet but your post gives me hope.   :)

What I don't understand it in the past month, the standard shipping price on a 5GH/s miner has risen from $38 to $88 that's 50 bucks more for what?

It is for R&D lol

Price difference for new case for the units? Pretty much that plus mark up right?

When people do cost of btc to gh/s I hope they include the shipping costs.

I thought it was to pay for all those refunds people were requesting. I made an order the night before the HW price went up and couldn't find out how to pay. So so glad!

That too lol...Refunds & Development

Scary people still opt for more pain instead of opting out all together.

Sad really.

Sorry the last 5 posters are already on my ignore list so I will just proceed from my last post.

Upon further investigation, USPS charge about $80 for an international Express parcel, 3-5 business days delivery http://postcalc.usps.com/ so the current $88 shipping charge for the 5GH/s miner is reasonable. The original $38 charge was too low, and probably assumed only national customers not international.

You don't need to belabor that point.

I sent them a copy of bitpay receipt and asked why my shipping status was still pending. Just got there response today, they want more money again.... They appear to be charging almost random amounts on there site. Prices very from $115 to $260 for shipping a single Jalapeno. Just depends if you draw the short stick I guess. Now I have 2 reciepts that say paid in full, with express shipping written on them. All I've earned is more time in limbo.  I'm tired of dealing with this kind of bs all the time. I paid 13 months ago and my order is still not in the system ffs!

BFL say they use USPS  for standard shipping so check the calculator to see what you should be paying, it only takes a few secs.

http://postcalc.usps.com/

These prices are nothing to do with shipping. They collected enough money to express ship everything the first time around. The USPS doesn't charge hundreds of dollars to ship a little package.

You are obviously looking in the wrong section, it can easy be hundreds of dollars eg.

http://ircalc.usps.com/MailServices.aspx?country=10013&m=7&p=12&o=0&mt=7&oz=64108&l=20&w=15&h=10&g=0&r=True

Sounds like you don't have any idea what your talking about to me. I didn't order a pallet of bricks from China. There rate has nothing to do with actual shipping charges, I don't know what makes you think otherwise. They could ship my order express for about $50. No one charges 1k to ship a box a few hundred miles, let alone the USPS.

So you've bought so much the they need a 9x5x5 foot box to ship it to you, and still only $200, bargain!?

Well it sux to be you does' it. My shipping charge to Australia is just fine, they actually undercharged the first order, only $38.

BFL has really dropped the ball on this one. You guys might wanna look into cancelling your orders and ordering a Firefly Mk1 ASIC. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=203342.0)

Haha nice

For what it's worth, I ordered my Jalapeno back in September last year. Kept on going to their site to check its status and kept toying with the idea of paying for express shipping. Thankfully, I didn't. You see, my Jalap shipped last Friday and arrived at my office on Monday in a nice little USPS box. That's just Kansas to Florida, but still... it got here on day 3, and two of those days were weekend days.

My advice to anyone, don't bother ponying up for Express Shipping; you'll pay a fortune, and what, you MIGHT get it a day earlier?

Really?? 1 buisness day ?? My 30GH unit shipped last friday & got here in Fla same as yours,on the following monday......................So they DID screw me on shipping............................I'll NEVER learn  ::)

Original shipping charge $34,Express shipping extra $95= $ 129.Never again BFL......................NEVER AGAIN!!!!!  >:(

Bastards!