Bitcoin Forum

Loozik is refusing to pay.  I clearly demonstrated that citizens and states exist.  Loozik just refuses to accept the facts.  There is no reason I should not be paid on the contract.  

Davout is a homophobe and for the record I am a heterosexual male.

Davout is mad because I keep exposing all the illegal exchanges like the one he is trying to launch: 
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=241394.0

How'd you prove your citizenship, OP?  Pics or it didn't happen.

Okay, first please allege the facts: when and where did you demonstrate ''citizens'' and ''states'' exist?

What was the evidence / were the evidences you submitted? Were these empirical and / or rational evidences?

Note, for something to exist (this is a physics from your elementary school), it must meet the criteria of existence, i.e. energy and / or mass. A photon exist - it has an energy (but not mass), a tree exist - it has a mass (and energy too). You can detect a photon, you can see and touch a tree. I hope it is clear for you so far.

A unicorn or a leprechaun or a santa claus does not exist, it has neither mass nor energy. You cannot see it, you cannot touch it, you cannot detect it with any instruments.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just curious, have you ever touched a ''state''? Factually what is a state?


So far you have alleged the facts but did not support them with evidence.


True. Because you did not prove ''states'' and ''citizens'' exist.


;D what have you smoked today?

I told you I shared my passport with johnk.  It is a well understood fact that passports can demonstrate citizenship.

I'm sorry Loozik, let's take this slow... because you are obviously dimwitted.

Is a map real?

OP, did you share your passport with me?  Without resorting to all that metaphysical wizardry, i'd like to verify the facts at least as well as the local cops would -- i want that passport & you beside it.  Due diligence -- must use it, it is good!

A passport are pieces of paper with your photograph on it. There are also letters and digits on it. since it is paper, you can, with a passport, prove trees grow on this planet (paper is made of trees). Since there are letters and digits on it, you can prove humans are no longer in stone ages.

It maybe the case someone wrote on these pieces of paper that you are citizen of USA. This statement neither proves the existence of USA nor it proves you are a citizen. It's just an opinion backed by no evidence.

More importantly, is username buyer your sock?  You keep forgetting to answer a simple question.  Has the buyer account name ever been used by you on Bitcointalk.org?  Yes or no?

Your perseverance is indicative of your being mental. You realize this, right?

Looool!!!1!
http://s22.postimg.org/6cn57oqr5/Capture.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/482s6lp4d/full/)
Edit:  This is buyer!  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

My perseverance will prove you are not a man of your word and you are indeed a scammer, as I stated.  You just keep ignoring my simple question, is a map real? 

Is it?  Huh?  Come on smart guy try to tell me a map is not real....

A smart person would have pointed out that nothing proves that the ID you showed is yours  :-*

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=241369.msg2559919#msg2559919

Edit:  OP started a poll.  The people have spoken.
 http://s22.postimg.org/5fui41je9/Capture.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Well thank god you are not a smart person, because a smart person could match the photo in the passport to the photo of the person holding the passport.  That is INDEED the entire premis behind picture ID.


Where'd ya go scammer loozik?  I'm still waiting on that answer about a map not being real.

Your stating I am a scammer proves you are able to use a computer to write on this forum. It does not prove I am a scammer by the virtue of your stating this. I hope it's clear.


Of course a map (by this you mean a piece of paper with toner or paint on it?) is real: you can touch it, you can perform origami with it.

The question you should ask is: does the painting on the piece of paper you call a map truly and exactly represent the reality? Well, I don't know - just show me the map you think is the evidence that supports your claim.

Note, so far you have not presented any evidence  ;D


Already told you, maps are real (pieces of paper), they are objects, they exists.

http://imgur.com/nnShhKj.png

Any questions ?

gee can we do the math?

viceroy says yes accused is a scammer
homophobe da out says he is not
crumbs the obsessed says he is not
Loozik obviously says he is not

I must have missed the great truth your post is eluding to there crumbs as I await the answer about a map not being real.

You know it is not very important, I will pay him BTC 100 if he only proves there is even one object in the universe called a ''state'' or a ''citizen''

This guy: http://marcstevens.net/ will pay him $25k for proving the same. If you go to this link you can hear recordings of real court cases where Marc was successful proving to judges that states and citizens do not exist.

So...  You started a poll to prove ... what?  Protip:  Learn to maths.  Spoiler Alert: 1+1+1 != 4, it's three.
Edit:  Not likin' that populist truth, now it's 5 :o ...
http://s16.postimg.org/85q5d6aed/Capture.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Yea, I have a question.  Why did you remove the comment where you called me a FUCKFACE because you have a picture of some fat russian?

Perhaps you should ask JohnK if he believes the passport I showed was mine rather than attack me.  I can see you are way to busy moderating this forum to do that though.  (I meant to say "trolling my thread" with your homophobic comments).



Oh, you've come back and cleverly avoided my question which is critical in demonstrating the truth of my answer.  Is a map real? That's the question before you scammer.

I removed it because I felt it didn't sound very good in this particular context, but if you really insist I'll try to re-use it in a better suited context. And it won't be long before it happens if you continue to behave like such a butthurt punk bitch :)

I'm sorry what did you say?  You are going to fuck my face if I continue to point out that you are a homophobe and a disservice to the bitcoin community at large?  And that you should probably speak with the other mods before accusing members of the community of doing things they didn't do... like  pretend to be somebody else. 

Now if I'm done talking to the overpaid moderator perhaps I can get back to the facts:

I contend a map is a real item that people accept as a representation of fact.  Does anyone disagree?

Look here pussy https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=241369.msg2560145#msg2560145 I already answered.

Will you show the evidence (and earn BTC 100) or not? I am beginning to get bored.

"Of course a map (by this you mean a piece of paper with toner or paint on it?) is real: you can touch it, you can perform origami with it."

Oh good, we can move on then.

There is this thing we call "common knowledge" I am happy to define it for you but I think we can all agree that google earth is a factual representation of the planet earth and the boundaries we humans place on it which we call "states".  Is there anyone here who thinks google earth represents something other than the fact that there are boundaries agreed upon by humans which we call States?  Anyone other the accused.

Is there anyone here who disagrees that I can demonstrate states exist by pointing to google earth or any other well accepted map? (Anyone other the accused.)

No he is now russian,  he quit France.  That is his RUSSIAN passport.

Showing a picture of someone holding a matching passport does not prove that you are this person, which was my point, thank you very much.

The premise (and yes OP, that is the correct spelling) behind the concept of an identification document is that it authenticates someone physically holding it, the important word here is "physically".

Thank you for proving my point that a passport demonstrates citizenship.  Waiting on you Loozik to demonstrate that I have somehow not delivered in demonstrating that states and citizens exist.  You can try to play word games but clearly the "common man" disagrees with your philosophy.  So pay up bitch.

See previous post, if you want to nitpick, nitpick all the way.

OP, you shouldn't have started a poll.  7:1 against you, the people have spoken :(

If you lived in 15th century would it be also a common knowledge that the sun circles round the earth, not the other way round?  ;D

Yes.


And it will be for you to prove (if you want to earn BTC 100) that it exists. How many heads the so called state have? What is its mass, what are its dimensions, what language, if any, it speaks? If I understand you correctly it has boundries.

I'm glad you have an opinion, but did you do what asked?  Did you ask JohnK to verify my claim that he accepted a copy of my passport (along with other photos) to prove who I am?  No?  Then you just have an opinion that is not substantiated by fact.  

this thread is about facts:

1) the fact is that there are states and I can demonstrate this by pointing to a map
2) the fact is that there are citizens of various states as demonstrated by the fat russian

So where's my 100 btc?

I've identified three of the seven and I know you have at least three alts because I distinctly remember you getting one banned just about a week ago.  So it looks like it's me vs three.  Did you have a point?  I am still owed 100 btc by the accused.

The burden of proof is on you to prove it is your passport, not a passport.
So far you have provided no factual proof of this particular claim you are making.

You have not verified my claim.  Go ask JohnK.  I did prove myself.

A US passport does prove it, so does a French passport, but that's just for the sake of being exact :)

For one I don't care. Also even if I did, it would prove to me that you sent the picture of a passport to JohnK, not your passport, which you have yet to prove.

Fantastic, now we are getting somewhere.  Moderator acknowledges that passports can be used to demonstrate citizenship.  Now if you would just agree that a MAP represents states we could finish this nonsense and I could collect my 100 BTC.

Directly above where the moderator admits that passports demonstrate citizenship.  I guess you must disagree with the mod but that is irrelevant as I've proven that citizens and states exist as per your contract.

Invalid argument (argument from authority). Viceroy, I hope you understand that an opinion of people who call themselves US Government is just an opinion, not an evidence. You are merely conveying someone else's opinion.

BTW, do you have a picture of a state? Never seen one. Be a darling and show a picture of a state / any state.

I am quite interested to solve this matter since I have two citizenship and I am candidate for a third (which I would be a "subject", not really a "citizen").

I will pay 1 BTC upfront to anyone able to prove that I am not Brazilian or Italian, even less a candidate to become British.

Anyone interested?

 ;D

Oh, so common knowledge is an invalid argument.  Do you want to try again with something other that nonsense?  Perhaps some actual facts?  This is not a philosophy course this is a contract that you are failing to pay which is amazing given the FACT that everyone in the room knows that citizens ans states exist.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_knowledge

By your definition air does not exist because I cannot show you a picture of it.

Perhaps you should start your own thread on the subject rather than troll this one?  Just a thought   ::)

Post the link.


You only claim you have proven. You understand you prove with evidence, right?

This is a bold claim. Now tell me what is citizenship.

>You understand you prove with evidence, right?

Yes I can show you a map.  That is evidence of the existence of states.  I can show you documents or passports which demonstrate the existance of the united states of america and that it has citizens.  

This is all common knowledge.

No, that's purely subjective. Citizenship is an attribute, a title if you will, not something that implies specific contributions and whatnot, liabilities maybe (like pay taxes and stuff), but certainly not any kind of contribution. Nowhere do you get your citizenship removed from you because you fail to do X or Y.

I am not a moderator here.
Also you still fail to prove the point I brought up a few times in a row :)

Loozik I give your troll 8/10, kudos.
Viceroy I give yours 1/10, booo.

Which point have I failed to make that there are states or that there are citizens? 

Passports are specially made to prove the nationality of a person which is going to visit a foreign nation, which implies proof of citizenship.

If I did not have my Italian passport I could never reside legally in UK since I would not able to PROVE to the Home Office and the Border Agency that I am an Italian citizen.

Citizenship has nothing to do with where someone could reside, but all to do the person's background and right to be part of a nation.

The promise requires you to prove that you are a citizen, not that a citizen exists.

Another smart person who recognizes that passports demonstrate citizenship.

I demonstrated that to JohnK.  Ask him for the proof, I cannot force him to come here and post. 

Fantastic.


You are very close to earning BTC 100. BTW I can also show you a map  ;D


I want evidence (by its nature objective, provable). If whatever you think you can show here is the evidence that supports your claim, then don't be a pussy and show it  :)

You are speaking of one type of map, a topographical map.  There are also maps which lay out political boundaries (aka states).  There are also parcel maps that show individual parcels of land in a city or county which are part of a bigger state.  So you can't really say a state doesn't exist.  It has physical boundaries.  

Not really necessary since I am not really up to "troll" anyone.

I am more serious than you could assume.

Dear OP, two choices here :

(A) - Have you physically met JohnK ?
(B) - Or did you send him a picture of a passport that you claim is yours ? (with possibly someone on the picture that you claim is you)

Is it (A), or is it (B) ?

I don't need to use words like pussy to prove I am right.  As I said, it's all common knowledge.  You can look up that term in just about any encyclopedia.  I have proven that states exist and citizens exist.  JohnK can verify I am an American citizen.  So pay up.

I'll quote myself since OP seems to have missed the precise question here :)

Dear doubter... go ask him.  I don't need to defend myself to you.  I demonstrated that I am a citizen of the great United States of America using proof of citizenship that is acceptable to the US government.  You need to ask him to either claim I am or am not an American citizen by whatever method he and I chose to use to verify that FACT.

  

Invalid argument.

Fallacy "appeal to ignorance".

Next!

This whole thread is about defending your point. So is it (A) or (B). If you answer (A) I will go verify, if the answer is (B) you have just been logically cornered, can drop this whole thing, and move on with something more productive to do with your life.

Come on, it's the 4th page of this thread and no evidence presented, only opinions. I consider you a pussy.

My bitcoin-qt is running and waiting for you to present the evidence and I'll just send the money.


When and where did you prove it? What evidence did you present. So far I only have your subjective by nature opinions. Nothing to falsify.

Anyone want to give me some BTC for my drawing  :'(

It was not an argument. I kindly asked the pussy to show a photo of a state, because I never seen one. If he claimed unicorns existed, I would also want him to post a picture of a unicorn.

What I need to prove:

"You will get  BTC 100 from me if you prove (i) you are a ''citizen'' and (ii) there exists a ''state''."


What I did prove:

I demonstrated to JohnK that I am a citizen.  If you can produce a person in Colorado within an hour drive of me I'll show them my passport.  I can show you my birth certificate.  But I already demonstrated that I am a citizen to JohnK.

I also proved, by common knowledege, that states exist.  They have boundaries and can be represented by using a map.

Accused needs to pay up.

You did not. Unless you physically showed up before JohnK and showed him your passport.
So let me ask again, was it (A) or was it (B) ?

OP:
I never met you in person.
I never met JohnK in person.
I never held your passport in my hands.
I'm handy with Adobe products -- i'm sure so are you.  
'Till the three of us meet in meat space & you hand over a passport, you're no more than what i think i see on my monitors. :)

Wouldn't you want to prove it to me? Then you'll get BTC 100 very fast.


It is common knowledge the so called god exists. If you can also prove the so called god exists, you'll get another BTC 100.



If - as you claim - they have boundries, they have dimensions (are finite) - we are getting somewhere. Can you post an unedited photograph of a state?

That was not a requirement of your contract.  The contract you made required me to demonstrate my citizenship; I have done that.

It is common knowledge the so called god exists.

That is the stupidest thing you've written yet. There is no common knowledge acceptance of any higher being.  Now pay up and stop trying to act like you are right.  You are obviously just trying to get out of a contract you made.  You are a scammer aren't you?

Hey OP, was it (A) or was it (B) you said ? I can't recall.
Burden of proof is on you.

Again, you are being obtuse and just trying to avoid paying on the contract YOU MADE.  It is common knowledge that states exist and that they can be represented on maps which are considered factual representations of land and sea.

And I performed my burden.  If you want proof of that go ask JohnK.

Look, let me give you an advice. Pay the bet or confess you never intended to honour your promise. Your circular logic is not going to change the FACT that a state exist in the same way that a language exist. No one can take photos of English, French, German, Italian, Mandarin or even Esperanto language. What people can do is to create graphic signs on pieces of paper (or stone, or computers, or trees, etc) to represent what cannot be captured with a single shot of my mobile phone camera.

By the way:

http://www.unicorn-pictures.com/images/unicorn.jpg

The mere existence of a photo do not prove the mere existence of a concept. It is more complex than that...

Sending a picture of a passport does not prove anything.
I can send you pictures of hundreds of real passports, I have but one identity.

So was it (A) or (B) ?

Where, when and with evidence did you demonstrate it? I looked through the whole thread and did not find the evidence. BTW, the contract was for proving the existence of ''states'' and ''citizens''


Now, show the fucking evidence. Let me suggest that you post an unedited photograph of a state as an evidence of existence of a state.


You are obviously trying to earn the money without the evidence. You are a pussy, aren't you?

OMG DUDE, Thank you so much for this.  It's almost like there is intelligent life in these forums after-all.

What a relief!

LOL.  Changing the contract now, huh.  Check the quote in the OP.  Now I don't even need to prove I'm a citizen.  Then I am done, just pay.  

Here is my entire proof:
"It is common knowledge that there exist states and citizens."  -Viceroy


"You are a pussy, aren't you?" - Loozik

Gamblers and scammers often get mad at me when I take their money, I'm waiting for yours based upon your promise.  

Here we go Loozik, I made an address just for you:   1Z9KhWVSmZLvYa6z172n9dSQHq5Mw4D7a

As we can all see this brand new address is lacking the 100 btc you promised.

I do not need to, that was not part of your original contract.  Now pay up.

You do not need to present the evidence that back your claim that states and citizens exist?

You want me to pay you BTC 100, without any evidence submitted by you? Are you mad?

Show me any evidence, e.g. UNEDITED photograph of a state.

That is not a requirement of any contract you've made.  But in order to expedite my payment I'll do you one better.  I'll show you a contract that defines a state.  I guess you could try to argue with all the scholars that accept this document as proof, but I have demonstrated that citizens and states exist in my proof above already.  You are just trying to get out of a contract you made at this point. 

Delaware's state charter:
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/de01.asp

What evidence you have the photo I post is edited?

Please, prove the photo was edited. Otherwise I proved in your own terms that Unicorns indeed exist.

just gonna take this bottom spot so I can top post the thread again....

.

As we can all see this brand new address is lacking the 100 btc you promised.

It is the requirement of the contract we concluded that you will prove with evidence (you can't prove with an opinion) and I can prove it with screenshots.



You are proving the existence of Delaware state with Delaware state charter? This is called circular logic or circular argument; like ''god exists because bible says so'' - this isan  invalid argument.

You understand you cannot claim invalid arguments to be an evidence for the existence of states. such arguments rather prove your stupidity.

I never claimed your photo was edited. I didn't even investigate it to make such a bold claim  ;D



I think you are missing something. It's Viceroy who claims he can prove states and citizens exist. The burden of proof is on him.

So far he did not show any evidence. So far he only claimed he would show the evidence. I am still waiting for the evidence.

Wow you are obtuse.  Go here and read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_knowledge

Then when you are ready to accept that the proof I have given is proof indeed I'll be waiting for the ~$1000 you promised.

I proved the existence of the state of Delaware by pointing to the language used to create the state of Delaware.  You can pretend that document doesn't exist or that it defines something other than the "STATE OF DELAWARE" but we who accept common knowledge will disagree because we all know that the state of Delaware exists and is defined in the charter I pointed to.

I have proven my case.  You are doing nothing but back-peddling.  Pay up you scammer.

Ahahha this is funnier than anything else.

Viceroy, you are going on the path of goat.

No, that is clear and direct evidence that a states exist.

You are again appealing to logical fallacy and ignoring the evidence which proves that a state exist.

This is equivalent to say that Mars do not exist because that was write by a science fiction writer or it is just the name of an ancient Roman deity.

Exactly.  Now pay up Loozik.

LOL. This is from your wikipedia link:

''The assertion that something is "common knowledge" is sometimes associated with the fallacy argumentum ad populum (Latin: "appeal to the people"). The fallacy essentially warns against assuming that just because everyone believes something is true, it is. Misinformation is easily introduced into rumours by intermediate messengers.''

Okay, so common knowledge is about faith and believing  ;D

You really think you proved anything by introducing the element of faith?



I do not accept (nor should you) arguments with elements of faith to be a proof of your claim.



This is getting boring. Let's do it again:
''god exists because the bible says so. what is bible? - it's the word of god'' - this is an invalid argument called circular argument. This sentence does not prove god exists.
''state delaware exists because a delaware state charter says so. what is delaware state charter? - it's the word of state delaware or something similar'' - this is also circular logic.


Not really. Your ''evidence'' so far are logical fallacies and opinions.



Show the evidence or STFU, pussy

You made an implied claim when you accepted the photo and demanded one which is not edited.


Wrong, you are the one playing the wilful ignorant here. If Viceroy can prove to me that he holds a legitimate USA passport, the burden of proof will fall over you to prove he is a not an USA citizen.

Now regarding the state, the whole burden of proof is on you to prove the last thousands years of human history (which relates to Viceroy's common knowledge argument) were completely fabricated and the wars the sates fought against each other were mere fictional tales of our ancestors.


He indeed have already presented evidence that a state exist.

By the way, which evidence you will accept as matter of fact to prove that a state exist and that he is a citizen?

Loozik's troll is made even better with his avatar :)

Also OP has yet to prove he is a US citizen and didn't simply provide some random picture like I did before, which would in OPs logic, prove that I am in fact the French/Russian Gérard Depardieu actor.

/me sits back and busts out the popcorn.

This is not a requirement of the contract.  Loozik admits above (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=241369.msg2560767#msg2560767) that all I need to do is demonstrate that citizens exist.  

LOL  ;D

So your defense is now reduced to "LOL".

Pay up you scammer.

What Loozik says is irrelevant, what is relevant is what Loozik initially promised, as detailed in the OP.

Wrong again...

The phrase says that "is sometimes associated with the fallacy argumentum ad populum".

In this case Viceroy is not using an argument which could be associated with that fallacy. He already presented evidence to support his claim that a state exist and his claim is indeed common knowledge.

I hope you kids are just playin', 'coz this e-court has case law which makes it clear that these bets are not enforceable & most certainly won't get you a scammer tag.  Further, the scammer tag will not be granted, and the entire thread is off-topic since the injured party can't show monetary damages.  Yeah, sort-a fishy, but so sez Theymos. 
Have fun :D

For him to prove (to me, not you, I am the guy who promised to pay) he is a USA citizen, he must also prove USA exists. So far he did not prove it with anything else then opinions.

Can he post prove USA exists, e.g. with unedited photograph depicting this object? Maybe you could help him - then you can share the reward.


I am not making any claims regarding history. I just (i) want Viceroy to prove even a single state exists and then immediately (ii) want to pay him BTC 100.


When and where? So far he put a few arguments which I falsified.


This is a very good question. I will accept both rational (using logic, reasoning) evidence and or empirical (something tangible, e.g.  unedited photograph of a state (the state can be in any pose or performing any action: lying on bed, flying in the air, preferably without clothes). Another empirical proof would be you or viceroy will visit me in Poland and the state will come with you. We'll have a chat if the state can speak. Something like this.

This case was already settled in post #2 anyway :-)
I'm just here for the free popcorn

No, i'm afraid he's right on, though the phrase you're looking for is "populist truth."  Goes something like this:  The lynch mob thinks he's guilty, all them people can't be wrong -- he's guilty.  

You keep changing the contract, or trying in an effort to avoid paying.

Is there anyone reading this post (other than loozik) who can demonstrate with any degree of evidence that:
The state of Delaware does not exist? Or that a person born in the state of Delaware is not a citizen of Delaware?

When the answer is no perhaps you can all agree that Loozik is refusing to pay on his contract and he deserves a scammer tag for the same.  I contend this is all common knowledge.    Clearly "Augusto Croppo" who is intellectually superior to the entire lot of you is in agreement that states and citizens exist and that this is all common knowledge.  There is simply nothing more that needs to be said as common knowledge is an acceptable proof for things such as the existence of states and citizens.

Pay up scammer.

Good try. The burden of proof that the states and citizens exists is on you. Proving that the so called state of delaware does not exist might fall under ''proving the negative''. Do yourself a favour and do not follow the path of goat.

As soon as you prove your claim with evidence, BTC 100 is yours.

Done a hundred times over.  But unlike a 5 year old you refuse to accept the obvious proof by Common Knowledge.

Scummy scammer refuses to pay on his contract.

Obvious? Proof by common knowledge (sounds like a oxymoron)? Are you delusional?

Show the evidence, earn BTC 100 from me or STFU  ;D

Sure you will.  You keep avoiding doing that by attempting in vain to argue a point that has no merit.  Here's some more evidence that states and citizens exist and this is all common knowledge:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_of_the_United_States

Perhaps you shold argue with the authors who CLEARLY state in that article that:


Or perhaps this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Rules_of_Evidence

Or this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_evidence

You can proclaim that I've not given evidence but the reality remains you are not a man of your word.  Borrowing from your vernacular I am sure that you are nothing more than a pussy who has no intention of living up to his word.  You are a lying piece of shit scammer and you should be forced to wear a tag for the same.

Ah ah ah.

Putz... Get a grip of what you are talking about! Your demand is completely illogical and is start to show that you never had any intention to honour your promise.

Sorry, this was so funny...

I wonder if you can prove that Bitcoins exist with your demands.

"Damn it, I know that Bitcoin never existed! I cannot have empirical experiences with that concept!"

 ::)

I should neither argue nor not argue. This article doesn't prove states exists.

Why illogical? I just want an unedited photograph of the object called a ''state''.


Bitcoins to my little understanding are just a valid abstraction (concepts). Concepts do not exists (no energy and no mass). I could not prove Bitcoins exist.

I hope you are okay with my answer.

I am starting to understand the circular logic of the looser...

 ;D

Next step he is going to say that 100 BTC do not exist because there is not really tangible evidence demonstrating it mere existence.

Brilliant!

So there will be no way to he pay Viceroy. The Bitcoins are just a mere fictional idea in everyone's mind!

This clown is a genius!

Ah ah ah.

There is some truth to this :)

Maybe he'll just stop using that air he cannot get a picture of and do us all a favor and just expire.

Augusto,

There is no need for you to call me by names. It didn't do it with regard to you.

Trust me, if Viceroy ever demonstrates the evidence of existence of states then very soon three digits ''100'' will appear on his wallet interface (by my performing specific actions on my computer).

Lies, more lies.  I demonstrated using facts that would be acceptable in any court of law.  You never had any intention of paying on the contract you made.  

What I presented is evidence based on centuries of courts deciding what evidence is.  You, on the other hand, just want to play word games while shirking your duty to hold to your contract.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_evidence


You are a liar and a cheat.

Yes, I am quite OK with your "little" answer. Thank you to prove that you cannot even prove that you understand what is matter of proof.

Yeap! Concepts do not exist! No energy and no mass!

Bravo!

Bravo!

This is far better than opera!

I must be dreaming.

What come next?

Quantum physics?

100 BTC are just a reaction of our will. Forgot electricity and complex hard wiring! Let's mine Bitcoins with crystals and yoga meditation!

Ah ah ah.

 ;D

I do not want you post links to what rules evidence are. I will not pay BTC 100 for this stupid task.

I want you to present the evidence to support your claim that states and citizens exist!

If you present the evidence, I will be more than happy to pay you BTC 100.

All right Mr Loozik, I am sorry for the "clown" and the "looser". However you must be aware that you put yourself in a position to be mocked. I gave an advice and you just ignored...

Exactly. Just like unicorns have no mass and no energy (they do not exists, they are not objects). Unicorns are just thought in your head (abstraction).

I hope you have no problem with the division: objects (exist) vs abstractions like concepts and anty-concepts (do not exist).

You know, if Viceroy can demonstrate a state is something more than just a thought in his or your head (is an object / exists), he will get BTC 100 right away.

Lies all lies just like the one about air not existing because you cannot see it in a picture.

If a state exists and is bigger than the atom, then it certainly can be shown on a photograph. I hope you understand it.

If it cannot be shown on a photograph, then it is probably smaller. Is a state bigger or smaller than Higgs boson?

What measurment technique can be deployed to detect a state's existence? a thermometer, a spectrograph? please answer  ;D

I did by showing you a contract that defines the first of 50 united states some pages back.  You are a loser who talks without meaning.  You NEVER had any intention of holding to your contract because you are a scammer.

Good one. Viceroy deleted at least one question from his poll and now it looks like the poll favours him.

Viceroy, last time the poll favoured me 10:3; what happened you erased the results?


http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/13394051/img/13394051.png (http://picturepush.com/public/13394051)

Oh I would think you, of all people, know that I will continue this until it resolves.

I just reset the poll, I didn't remove an option I do not think.  It's laughable that you, a scammer, attempting to impugn me.

you want me to repeat myself now because you use bold type.  ok I'll repeat myself.

Loozic is a scammer who never had ANY intention of paying on the contract he made.

OP can scam in so many wondrous ways ::)

And your resetting the poll indicates:
a) you are acting honestly,
b) you are not acting honestly?

You do not need to answer  ;)

It's my thread yea, I reset the poll because there was not enough evidence presented when crums used his alts to trash my poll.  It's interesting how things have changed now that people can clearly see Loozik is just trying to avoid paying on the contract it made.  What do you care? Scammers can only be tagged by theymos, not by a poll.

1. Okay, but isn't manipulating the poll indicative of your bad intentions?

2. Look, just present the evidence and you'll get BTC 100.

3. What I was able to get from you so far is that you will not use photographic techniques to prove your claim that states exist:
- a state is either smaller than the atom and cannot be well photographed
- is just so shy and does not make public appearances, and no paparazzo was able to shoot it - you know just like Great Minitou is so shy that noone was able to make his/ her/ its photograph
- is held hostage somewhere and photographic technique it is impossible to be applied
- you name the reason for not having the photograph of this object.

4. What we do not know is what evidence will you finally present and with what technique will this evidence be made.

5. Don't be a pussy and present the evidence as per your bold claims  ;D

Ad hominem attack.  I proved the point you are just to dense to admit it.

Screw that, I want my COIN!

At the moment they are MY coins. As soon as you present the evidence they will be YOUR coins.

I've presented ample evidence.  When should I expect to receive the coins you promised?

coins dont have ownership as there is no such thing as the "same" bitcoin. you own a digital number.

the entire contract was void to begin with

time for a countersuit

You sound like a broken record.

So far rationally you presented opinions and logical fallacies to back the alleged fact that states exists. You failed.

So far you delivered no empirical evidence to back the alleged fact that states exists. No photograph, no fingerprints, no footprint, no anything of the object called the state.

I am starting to believe you are unable to produce any evidence. Your failing to support your claims with evidence doesn't prove states are non-existent. It just shows you have no evidence.

BTC 100 waiting for you...

still backpeddlng.  You cannot change the contract once issued and accepted.  I never agreed to anyit ing other than to prove that citizens and states exist, which I have done to the satisfaction of many.

If Viceroy and Loozik are both so sure they are right (which I doubt) let them both place 100BTC in escrow with John K.  They can both present whatever evidence and argument they wish and John K can decide if there is a winner. Under this scenario I predict Viceroy will deposit his portion but Loozik will demonstrate no confidence in his rhetoric and sophistry and will not deposit his share.  I also predict Loosik will claim John K is not to be trusted to decide this matter and will not propose an alternative reliable escrow service, whereas Viceroy will accept several alternate reliable escrow services which, again, will prove that Loozik has no confidence in his argument.  

Who is John K.?

ROFL.

I'd commit to dwdoc's proposal.

My prediction comes true!

Yeah, queer.

Viceroy guy claims ''states exist''.

By claiming something exists he makes a scientific thesis (with regard to physics). I only want him to demonstrate the evidence in support of his thesis.

If he succeeds, I will pay him BTC 100.

Put your 100 btc up if you are so sure I haven't answered the challenge.

The agreement was simple: if you prove your claim, I will pay you. What element of the deal is unclear to you?

already addressed this

nobody owns the bitcoins. your approach to this topic is one in regards to physics that states are a human manifested thing and dont exist in nature, which is fine but neither do ownership of bitcoins (or bitcoins themselves)

so the contrat was void to begin with

faggots

This is very simple. So many millions of people believe in existence of states (many millions believe in unicorns, santa clause and in god). I haven't come across a single evidence of either a state or a god or a santa claus.

If you make me happy and prove with evidence a single state exist, you will receive BTC 100 from me.

Extending the offer: you will receive another BTC 100 for proving a single god exists. You will get BTC 25 for proving the existence of a single unicorn, and BTC 5 for a santa claus.

Prove it, put the money up with johnk or any other recognized escrow agent in this forum.  You do not intend and never did intend to pay on your contract, you are a lying scammer.

Escrow was never part of the deal. Are you trying to amend the contract unilaterally?

Back your claim with evidence and earn the money!

So many hours of talk and you produced no single evidence?

You are the one who keeps trying to change the contract.  It is fascinating that you refuse to use escrow.  Clearly you know you have no leg to stand on.  You are a scammer who doesn't honor your contracts.

Sure did, look at the scammer wiggle around.

The contract was / still is simple: you prove states or citizens exist, I pay you BTC 100. If you fail to present the evidence, you will not pay me a penny.


It can be clearly proved I am not trying to amend the contract.


Is the evidence you have (but refuse / fail to demonstrate so far) so valuable and unique you need to amend the contract to incorporate escrow prior to demonstrating this magical evidence?


So many promises of the evidence on your end, but none demonstrated. Shame on you, gutless pussy.

Yeah, thread looks a lot better after clicking the ignore link under his name.  :D

I don't know that he deserves a scammer tag though.  Scamming someone usually taking something of value from them, not "not paying" like what is obviously happening here.

At the very least, would be nice if this forum had an "ID10T" tag, which I think is more appropriate.

Grow a pair of testicles: fulfill your contractual obligation to present the evidence that proves your thesis, and I will meet my obligation to pay you BTC 100.

You gutless pussy  ;D

Indeed.

You really are delusional.

It was you who first expressed an opinion of me that I am a scammer (ad hominem). I only reciprocated the kindness and expressed my opinion of you that you are a pussy (also ad hominem).

I see no reason for you to get upset.

-----------------------------------------------------

I have the reason to be upset: you committed to provide me with evidence of a state and you gallantly fail to deliver on your obligation, for which if met I would have already paid you BTC 100.

I am not upset and my attack is obviously well founded, you are a scammer who doesn't honor your own contract.  I'm flattered that you think I care enough to be upset.  I'm embarrassed by your lame attempt to avoid paying on the contract you wrote than anything.  I also find it funny that you are still ignoring the idea of having an escrow agent decide the fate of the100 btc you owe... obviously you know you'd lose such an arbitration.

And now we'll get to read another lame attempt by Loozik where he'll once again lie by accusing me of not providing the evidence necessary to pay the contract he wrote.  He may even call me a foul name for the fifth time because he has nothing else to say.  All scammers are the same, you back them into a corner and they start attacking the messenger.  Prepare for the angry Loozikws response... I'm sure it will make us all laugh again.

Who is ''us''? You and voices in your head? You and the state, you and the unicorn?

In certain countries it does.  Only US citizens can get US passports

To the OP, did you really think that earning 100 BTC would be this easy?  He is wanting you to prove 2 things:

1) That you are a citizen

You can do this in a variety of ways, the passport of which is only one of them.

2) There exists a state

This is an existential question: if loozik just wanted you to show him a state charter, obviously he could have just used google.  He's looking for an argument that proves that states exist.  One way to prove existence is proving real physical existence.  He has offered you the option of doing so via an unedited photograph but since a state is a concept and not a physical object, this is obviously going to be impossible.  Your other option is going to be using logic and arguments to prove that a state does exist, i.e. a paper with well reasoned arguments (or it could be an oral presentation on youtube or something).  A few pages ago, he posted a like to someone who used arguments and logic to prove that states don't exist (or depending on what jurisdiction he is in, show reasonable doubt that states exist.)  What you need to do is take that man's arguments and refute them.  Did you really think earning 100 btc was going to be an easy task?  This is probably going to rise to the level of an undergrad senior thesis at best.

If you are serious about trying to do this, you're going to need to actually write a paper complete with citations and references to support your claims and refute those presented. Yes, it will probably involve some time at your local university library.

IF, and this is a big if, you are serious about doing this, I would suggest approaching it as such.  Prove (2) first.  Once you prove that states exist, it will easily follow that since they have sovereignty, they can define citizenship how they want, and in the US, they can regulate citizenship and passports such that in the US a passport holder is a de jure citizen.  Show up in person and present the passport (or any other form of identifying document proving you are a citizen as defined by the state you proved in (2) and then if he doesn't pay the 100 BTC we can label him a scammer.

Classic thread. You hooked a big one Loozik! :D

I don't even think he has the mental capacity to understand why he is wrong yet at this late stage in the game...

Viceroy, prove to me that time exists and I will give you 100 BTC. If you fail to do so, you must give me 100 BTC. We can use John K or judge.me as escrow.

i will give you 100 btc if you can prove anything at all exists, anything, anything at all, physical or not

Perhaps whilst researching these topics Viceroy might also stumble across some evidence that 'love' or 'beauty' exists...?

Viceroy, you may well become a rich man when you complete your quest for this evidence, surely people outside of this forum would pay you a great deal for evidence of such abstract and elusive concepts (yes I inculde in this bracket the "state" and "citizenship" [which can be extended to the fact that you, or the collection of atoms which makes up you "belongs" to a certain "state"])... Or perhaps now you will start to sheepishly realise that perhaps you have been (rather sucessfully) trolled...

(hint: it is very difficult to "prove" abstract concepts. start your research here would be my advice, also using WuLabsWuTecH's (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=241369.msg2564330#msg2564330) methodology.

And, good luck young Padawan!

10 pages on the meaning of proof, and no one bothers to point out the semantic problem here.  There are so many definitions of proof -- legal, mathematical, metaphysical, and, finaly "whatever makes sense to me," the usage apparent in this thread.
*climbs hobbyhorse* Oh, and Viceroy==Userbuyer==batshit crazy, let him be. :o

Sorry, not a part of your object-oriented universe.  I'm a procedural guy ;D

Edit:  Just in case you misunderstood, "User" "buyer" is the actual name of a user, an instance of users, a forum member going by the name/moniker/nik "user." "buyer."
EDIT2:  AGHHH!  I am not awake & can't think.  Brain fart.  when i typed "user," i meant "buyer."  Yes, i loose 10 internets.  Editing the above edit & post :'(

I'm not going to pick up the ball & tell you that at best, you think that you have proved something.  Prove me wrong. :D

Here you go Viceroy, here is the existence of a state for you:

'state' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stationary_state)

now you only have half of the work left to do yourself :) I will merely request a quarter of the total bounty, upon your receipt of it when you  prove the other half...

:)

Good one :) Thanks for the link.

This is a basic logic video (that has nothing to do with quantum mechanics) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdEUR-Xhob8 on a stone age level (I would word some expressions differently than Stef but I agree with him in general) that even will Viceroy understand and hopefully will watch if he ever wants to earn BTC 100 from me.

I recommend this video to all other people who contributed to this thread.

It was common knowledge in the western countries (blame -> Aristotle). However in Bharat (modern day India) it was common knowledge that earth revolves around the sun and that earth is not flat (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread672580/pg1 (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread672580/pg1)) . "common knowledge" is a very loose term to be used for such things :P

Yes, Aristotle screwed this up.

Socrates screwed up with social contract on the night before his death. Those philosophers  :P


Thanks, I didn't know this.

Sure but it's well accepted by all the literate people of the world that States and Citizens exist.  Therefore no additional proof is needed.

Pay up Loozik, you scammer!

Just because a majority of grown-up people (whom you call ''all the literate people of the world) believe (your common knowledge) in existence of states and citizens is not the evidence that states and citizens exist.

Just because a majority of grown-up people believe (your common knowledge) in existence of gods is not the evidence that gods exist.

Just because a majority of young people believe (your common knowledge) in existence of santa claus is not the evidence that santa claus exists.

I hope it's clear for you so far that your appealing to common knowledge is plain ridiculous.


No additional proof is needed for your stupidity.

Evidence is needed for you to present that proves existence of states and citizens, if you want to earn BTC 100 from me. So far no-one was able to demonstrate an evidence of states and citizens to me. You will be my hero for proving magical objects like states and citizens exists. I will gladly pay you this money. You will also deserve a Nobel Prize.

Stop bitching and whining. Get to work and present the evidence.


Shut up and get to work! BTC 100 are waiting for you, gutless pussy  ;D

Viceroy, no one likes you. LEAVE

Awe shucks.  You first!