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Continuation of a topic [CHESS] World Championship 2021: Carlsen Vs. Nepomniachtchi (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5371990.0) that has turned into a global discussion of chess. Now with voting.

So, now the Candidates Tournament is underway, the winner of which will fight against Carlsen. If Carlsen refuses, then the top 2 of the tournament will play the crown among themselves.

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2206292213490113.png
https://www.chess.com/article/view/fide-candidates-chess-tournament-2022

Current results: https://www.chess.com/events/2022-fide-candidates-chess-tournament/results

Carlsen said last year that he would not defend the title unless Aliza Firouzja was the challenger. Judging by the table, Firouzja had almost no chance left. Will we see a vacant champion seat at the end of this tournament and a match for the crown without a reigning champion?

After yesterday's defeat by Caruana, Nepomniachtchi is 1.5 points ahead and now it is almost guaranteed to win the tournament - there has never been a case in the history of chess when the leader did not win the Candidates Tournament with a 1.5 point advantage. Quotes bookmakers, by the way, are very generous:

Win in tournament Yes No

Nepomniachtchi Jan 1.22 3.80
Nakamura X 4.70 1.15
Ding Liren 10.00 1.03
Caruana F 10.00 1.03

 ;D Nepomniachtchi has just beaten Firuja for the second time and I would say that the tournament has already ended ahead of schedule (although given the behavior of Magnus, the importance of second place cannot be denied).
If Nepomniachtchi scores 1.5 points in the remaining three games, then this will be an absolute record - at the moment, the record is 9 points.

2 months ago I read an article in which Carlsen stated that it was unlikely he will play against the winner of the candidate tournament and at the time he did not even mention Firouzja at all, so unless he goes through a change of heart then most likely we are not going to see Carlsen defend his title at all, however if that is the case then there is still interest in the candidate tournament as there is only a distance of half a point between Ding and Nakamura.

Thank you very much for creating this thread! This is badly needed given the fact that the reputation of chess has been steadily increasing over the years.

With that being said, Nepo has been dominating the candidates again this year. He plays so dynamic and fundamental- even if his opponents are very well prepared, he seems to create ideas on the board which makes further complications.

While there may have been speculations and news regarding Carlsen's withdrawal of the WCC match, I doubt that he will hand it out easily to Nepo, if the latter would win this year again. Though I was specifically rooting for Caruana and Rapport, seeing a rematch between Carlsen and Nepo would still be a fun thing to watch!

great continuation, last topic was really good

Do you think Carlsen will maintain his word and play only if it is Aliza Firouzja?
why do you think he wants that?

Magnus has long talked about how he felt happier before he became world champion so he would like to get rid of this burden, but Firouzja (as a representative of the new generation) could motivate him. In recent interviews, he evaded the direct question of whether he would defend the title, but said that "he, like everything else, changes his mind, but if he goes to something for a long time, then no." Looks like he's going to give up title defense after all.

Chess always had good reputation, its just recently it got a bit more popular and been recognized by another generation.


Only Firouzja is a worthy opponent or somehow he finds that potential game less tiresome from an opponent who will be good practice to beat?  Must be nice to be so successful you can decline games as not worth your bother :D   I guess I can understand the preference for more interesting challenges and some people are better to spar against then others whose moves are blunt, slightly arrogant attitude but he's earnt that.

Nakaumura streams games on twitch I think, he would be refused I know Carlsen has played casually vs some relatively minor twitch streams

The concept still remains extremely curious. The current world champion in classic chess, Magnus Carlsen, does not have to complete any qualifying series and basically only has to play a final against the challenger who wins this tournament. Firouzja started the tournament very badly and basically eliminated himself with that. The notable name I'm missing from this tournament is Anish Giri. Actually, it should be a normal formula, just like playing football. Protective status is ridiculous.

My level of play does not allow me to make serious conclusions, but I see that commenting grandmasters who cover this tournament say that the level of the tournament is low. Kramnik, Polgar and some others spoke about this. But this is not Nepomniachtchi's fault - if Firouzja plays 250 games with minute time control at night instead of a normal rest before the game with him, then these are his problems.

This format has long been criticized (including by the current champions), but it has historically developed and so far there have been no shifts in changing it. And by the way, if you look deep into history, this is a much better format than it was before - once the current champion appointed his own opponents or could put forward absolutely unrealistic conditions for a duel.

I think a formation like this is also very balanced because all chess pieces already have their respective duties and can have the opportunity to protect each other, if it is changed to another formation I think it will make the chess master strategize again because until now the game of chess has a key point that can make the enemy lose with a few small steps.

It will also be a hassle to adjust. Of course you also have all kinds of similarities and moreover the current world champion (Magnus Carlsen) will not feel like it either. He will then complain that it will cost him too much energy and that it will be at the expense of his level. In a way he is right, but all players suffer from this, right? I don't really understand why they never changed those rules. Now he has a big advantage because he only has to eliminate 1 opponent.

Ding is on fire lately. Alireza is playing new lines, and Nakamura is, IMO, not entirely prepared based on how he develops his pieces. Nepomniachtchi also amazes me with how he handles his end game fairly recently. Ding, Alireza, and Nakamura are my top 3 contenders in this tournament, not so much about Nepo although he's been playing a stellar chess in his recent matches. I hope Magnus accepts the challenge, and let us, the viewers, see some more tricks hidden up these GM's sleeves when facing the world champion.

After I read your message I checked your trust and I was not surprised to read what it says  ;D You should be more careful when you reply to messages  ;)

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Nepomniachtchi plays against Rapport with White, has a better position and the advantage of two bishops. Given that he is satisfied with a draw today, he will become the official winner of the tournament.

I wonder how much the Netflix series "Queen's gambit" affected chess' reputation
we know media can shape the culture in really interesting (and sometimes bad ways), in this case it probably affected it but not sure if we can measure how much and in which countries.

Queen Gambit is a fine series and in another forum there was so much discussion made on it.
I don't think chess has been affected by the series it came recently but it is good to see how kids can choose a good line and stick to it.

maybe it wasn't that much, but would be nice to look at the data

it was the series that really motivated me to learn more about chess theory and technique and to play more often
same thing for some of my friends

but would love to check online chess websites number of users over time to try to see if there are any correlations

So this year's candidates, Nepo actually won again and he will be facing Magnus for the 2nd time! What are your thoughts on this?

I see that on the chess community, a lot of people are upset that Nepo won. Maybe this is due to the fact that they wanted to see a new opponent facing Magnus since Nepo got destroyed last year after he crumbled from his loss on Game 6 of their match on 2020 WCC. Do you guys think that Magnus will participate in this year's candidates despite him telling not to?

The champion is the biggest draw.

His name is the one, people come to see. He draws the largest crowds. Giving the competition the most authenticity and legitimacy.

And so they make efforts to give him an advantage in the game.

The same thing happens in boxing where names like Canelo are protected and given advantages in judging.

It also happens in MMA to an extent. Where the champion in past japanese Pride tournaments would know who they would be fighting. While their opponent would not know until the last second who their opponent would be.

It could be considered logistics or statistics, moreso than unfairness to some extent.

Magnus is still avoiding answering the question of whether he will defend the title, so it is unclear who Nepomniachtchi will play against. As far as I understand this issue should be resolved by the end of July.
As for the results of the tournament, in my opinion, the biggest disappointment among the public was the defeat of Nakamura in the last round, which allowed Ding Liren to take second place and qualify for the championship match if Magnus refuses. Nakamura is extremely popular both on the internet and just in chess, so this event was a big pain for many.

I was also upset on that loss of Nakamura, but you have to admit that Ding played extremely well against Nakamura. As the dude mentioned on his match analysis on his loss against Ding, he never thought that the guy will use the crazy lines that doesn't seem to fit the current position of the pieces but is the correct answer. Ding was inside Nakamura's mind the whole time, which forced Hikaru to break from his intended play style and adapt with the continuous pressure Ding has been applying.

Should Magnus decides to decline to defend the title (which I know he wouldn't), I'd be rooting for Ding, simply because he thinks fast and can adapt to any form of attack thus far. Nepo is a great player but I also want Ding to get that world title for himself.

I have no idea on how Magnus think so I think we'll have to wait to see if he will participate
but nice for Nepo to have a second chance.
let's see.

what do you think?

I have learnt a very important lesson from Queen Gambit. And that is you fight your own battle be it your personal life, professional life.
And money is crazy thing - it makes relationship stones hearted and you lose them when you lose money.

Not many people are happy that he won as we remember what happened last year, but at the same time if he took this as a learning experience then we could see a match that is way closer than last year, but now everything is going to depend on whether Magnus is willing to defend his crown or not, after all we must remember that Magnus is a human and maybe he has gotten bored of not getting a real challenger to which he could show everything that he has, while odd it would not be the first time at the sport world in which something like this happened, MJ retired from basketball temporarily and played baseball, Tyson Fury has also claimed he wanted to retire and all of this before the unification fight we all want to see, so I could see Magnus retiring for a time but then coming back some years later.

This is the only forum on Chess. Earlier there was another forum and from there I got to know about Queen Gambit and have learned so many important lessons of life. Such an amazing Netflix series. If you are chess lover.

Not a bad idea to separate friends from money  ::)

the series has some details about money and all but imo is not really about it
way more about the main character fight over herself and improvement trajectory

Since the Candidates Tournament has already ended, but it is not yet known whether Magnus will take part in the title match, I propose a new vote with the same question )
So far, I have not seen betting options on this topic anywhere, but if someone sees it, please give a link here in the thread. I think that some bookmakers can take bets on this event.

This is a very slow thread -shows that a very few people now have interest in chess.
However I have heard that Jews are very particular about teaching their kids chess - because that makes their mind very active and strong and along side they are very good in calculations and mathematics.

for sure chess threads are slower than other gambling topics, but we're like slow and steady
there's always new people coming and commenting
and sometimes we have cool discussions on techniques and ways to improve in game too

Are you in a hurry somewhere? Chess remains one of the most popular games among all age groups and is also suitable for betting (see previous topic). If for some reason you are not interested, you can pass by. However, I understand why you write your messages and I regret that I did not make this topic self-moderated.

regarding betting, it would only make sense on championships, right?
I mean, I wouldn't really play chess for money, unless it's totally for fun, because it's so unpredictable if you'll be able to win or not since it's a game that relies a lot on skill and practice

Well yes, the series is clearly good, at least I thought it was good, and it makes it clear that the great chess masters who for me are on another level are the Russians, I feel that in the film they focused well on chess, not her genius, but also how important chess is, and that it always takes several to be able to analyze the moves, at one point I thought that those who shared the moves and analysis at that time were the Americans and that those who they did not, it was the Russians, but in the series they focused on the opposite. For me it gave me many things to understand, and with respect to the level of each person, blitz and long games are always good, each person can become specific and expert in what they like the most.I would have to study the endings a lot.

many things from here but I'll focus on the last part

I think endings are even more important than openings
you can get along well using the same opening on each game so you'd just need to know a good opening for whites and a good one for blacks
but endings can vary a lot from game to game, way more important imo

While I think the same for Russians as they are truly the geniuses of the chess game and in this game you need to think several steps ahead of your opponent in order to win the game,in real life it appears that Russians are a country in which the persons can be manipulated very easy by the government as we saw with the war in Ukraine,I don't see any genius moves from the Russian government here.

There are several books,video courses and free resources for people interested in this game,to me personally it is a boring one mainly because I am not that a patient person (with aging comes the loss of patience to anyone) and I like games where the end is determined like in slot games until you win or lose the money or in sport betting in which you know in 90 minutes or 120 max the result of your bet.

I would never sit in front of the TV to watch other people play chess.

Yes, or maybe semifinals or quarterfinals. Chess is really a good one and my favorite among all other sports. It is kinda hard to predict yes, because chess is a mind game, we can say that there's a different strategy that they can use but still it can be countered by an enemy so you can't be sure if even that player shows a good game using a well known strategy the winner of the game is still unpredictable,you should learn basic moves as well do not rely to their skills so you can have a bet.

What are we discussing in this forum? there is nothing going on in Chess there days.
I m not sure if everyone who comes to this forum are interested in chess and want to share their knowledge about chess and their rules.

Chess is by far the game more books have been written about through all history, so even if it is nowhere near as popular as many other hobbies and games we see today the fact that chess has been around for thousands of years in several different forms should speak about its staying power and how popular it has been through the ages, and not only that chess is a game that improves memory, deduction and logical thinking so unlike other games chess is in fact good for you and it even offers health benefits like the delaying of degenerative mental diseases.

some users are definitely interested in chess and we had great discussions on chess possibilities, strategies and gambling on the past topics (check first post)

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yes, there's something about having all the information, there are no hidden things in chess so both players can see everything that is happening and decide accordingly.

this is the game of strategy - the mind and the moves. I was very much fasinated  by chess game when I was young. So we gathered money and we brought ourselves a chess board. One of my cousins taught us how to play it. It was fun - we use to play it all the time.
Miss those days.

did you stop playing?

a bit off topic but related somehow:
I find it really interesting that there are chess boards of all kinds of prices
from normal popular ones to high-end special ones.
not sure if we have this in so many other markets, watches comes to my mind

The chances that Carlsen will defend his title are close to zero. He wants a radical change in the format of the championship match, otherwise he will give up the title. Given the fact that all changes are made at the beginning of the cycle, the chances that changes will be adopted now are almost zero. This means that Yang Nepomniachtchi and Ding Liren will meet in the championship match.
Few details here (https://new.chess24.com/wall/news/sources-zero-chance-carlsen-plays-title-match-unless-drastic-format-changes).

yes, maybe Carlsen level is so much higher than other players that he doesn't want to spend so much time to prepare for a world championship again since it takes a long time and a lot of effort

what do you all think?

With the recent announcement that Magnus Carlsen will not participate in this year's candidates tournament, I think I somehow respect his decision. According to Magnus, here is what he mentioned:


I do think that Magnus does not have to prove to anyone anymore. Everyone knows that he is indeed, the best living chess player that everyone has seen. The fact that he will be facing Nepo once again this candidates just gave him no motivation at all. Remember that the preparation that these GMs undergo is seemingly impossible to imagine, with all the stress and memory that they have to master.

I don't think that's really the case. It just takes a lot of preparation to play for the World cup and as he said, he isnt motivated enough to go though the whole ordeal again. He has been undisputed world champion since 2013 and probably lost motivation to keep it going now as he has nothing left to prove. He is going to stay the highest rated player by the year end again anyways.

Yes, it looks like it is. Now that he finally refused to defend the title, citing the fact that he has no motivation to waste energy on something that does not interest him. I don’t know if this is good or bad, but now we will see a new champion, and if Magnus takes a break from the heavy burden of the championship, he will have a chance to return in the next cycle. But will he be able to do it, given that now he is more and more interested in poker and (presumably) other things not related to chess.

Carlsen is someone who likes to play as much as possible. I don't think it's a problem for him if he takes part in an open tournament, just like you have in tennis and football. He wants to beat as many players as possible and then become world champion. I think it's being held back more by the world chess federation FIDE. It will then have to adjust all kinds of regulations and then a lot of things have to be changed. I just don't know which players are against it. But in principle you have a much better chance of reaching the final because then 2 players continue instead of 1.

It is too bad that Carlsen will not defend his title but as others have stated, he has nothing to prove anymore. I don't think he will focus less on chess as he still got some goals left such as reaching the magical 2900 elo number. Maybe in a couple of years, he will become interested again in the world championship also ...

Magnus Carlsen seems to have completely lost motivation. The format of the tournament doesn't really matter to him at all. He has indicated that he wants to play against Firjouza, but he will then have to qualify for the game against Carlsen. I don't think that FIDE will now organize a world championship game between Carlsen and Firjouzja, then there would be a lot of discontent and anger among other players who also have a chance of a game against Carlsen. But giving the title to the challenger is not something you just do and it is also not good for the sport. It is difficult to solve this dilemma.

Mostly people like Blitz these days and they hardly buy board and go for the online gaming partner.
We all are now phone addicted - don't know what will happen in coming day- but it seems like a serious trouble on our way!

Actually yes, I think that on a personal level one thing is what we live and the other is very different from the way of playing and being able to solve things within a board, just as she thought in the series, she believed that he was in control and that he saw all the moves and it really isn't like that, there are many variants that only other minds see and with more capacity, that doesn't mean they are more intelligent or something similar, but rather the level of training of those players is so immense that they are capable of having such a vision, I have played since I was a child and since I was a child I saw a lot of plays, but then I got very tired, and it was really a great effort.

that's true, and fast games are way more addicting
a week ago I decided to play more 10+0 games than 5+0 games for a while
trying to take a break for a couple days as well

as much as I love chess playing online can be really addicting, but the mmr system makes you stay in the flow,always playing with someone who's your level

It's also starting to get a bit boring for Carlsen, to be honest. He no longer has the motivation to recharge and go full for the world title. He has been world champion many times and if you take the rating list, he is also ahead of a cartload of points. His only motivation seems to be to break through the magical 2900 barrier once, apart from that he has already won everything there is to win. Firouzja is seen as the new world champion, but as long as Carlsen plays chess it will be difficult. That boy is already 2nd or 3rd in the world rankings. And he's 20 I think.

I understand how boring it is for Carlsen, he really doesn't have enough opponents to remain committed to keeping the title of world champion.
It would be a shame to see him give up and give the title to any other player at a lower level.

Unlike other sports, chess does not have a lot of diversity in the way it is played other than changes in the use of the watch, which could create new challenges for Carlsen to challenge himself.

I agree sometime the chess becomes very boring  game to watch - that is one of the reasons people are not much interested in watching a still game
On the other hand they like football, soccer or rugby or basketball which is more thrilling and helps in adrenaline gush

He is only seeing Firouzja to be the only opponent who would make him join again the Championship match.
But according to below article, he won't be defending his title in 2023.

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/national/world-champion-chess-player-says-he-wont-defend-title

But he will still play in tournaments but won't play in championships.
Maybe, he deserves a break and wants to just enjoy the game without much pressure.

Has anyone has watched "Queen Gambit" this is a beautiful Netflix series on the chess and shows how the person has gone from zero to hero and this needs dedication- strong will and hard work.
A must watch if you are chess lover.

What is happening to Carlsen is something very common, many people need a rival to push them forward so they can reach their maximum potential, on tennis we had Federer vs Nadal, on the NFL we had Brady vs Manning and even on the game of chess the rivalry between Kasparov vs Karpov was legendary, Carlsen lacks that, he is so ahead the rest he does not see the point anymore and it is because of this his motivation is lacking.

yes, we talked a lot about how good Queen's Gambit is on the last post, before moving to this one
it's a great series

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Magnus is 31 years old
he was born in 1990
went to look because I was curious about it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_Carlsen

a lot of information on his wikipedia page
the guy is a monster, he's been playing for decades now
he's built different.

Carlsen was very good at a young age. I can still remember that when he was 13 years old (something like that) he played a game against Kasparov in the world championship. He almost won the first match against Kasparov, who eventually ended in a draw. In the 2nd match, Kasparov won and advanced to the next round. Carlsen's comment "I played in the 2nd game as a kid" was appreciated by journalists because of his age ;D

Wow yes, you're right, the truth is when I learned to play chess I always focused on dominating from the beginning, and never played defensively and that's how it was since I was little, I never changed my style of play, in fact everything changed when I entered the university and I went to the chess club where there were many experts and I thought I had a high level, but the truth is that they made me feel like I was still a child, I had to play a lot and put in a lot of time on my part to at least make them play in trouble, but where they always beat me was in the endings, they had a lot of experience in endings, and then I realized that they bought the magazines, they put the endings and between more than 10 people they analyzed the final moves, and it was really very difficult to follow the sequence, because I think they could easily anticipate 5 moves, I've lost that a bit, I can barely anticipate 2 or 3, concentration is everything.

Chess got a lot more popular due to the pandemic. Gaming and eSports as well took off during the pandemic as there werent much things to do indoors that to find new hobbies online. Online chess and Chess streaming was one of it. Firouzja had a really really bad candidates tournament. It was his first (As far as I know) and maybe because of the nerves, he just couldnt live up to his potential. I had higher hopes from Fabiano Caruana and he could have been a contender for the title but he didn't expect Magnus to not play for the title and while he was trailing by 0.5 points. He started taking big risks and played aggressively. Since he thought he had to win the candidates instead of being top2(which he most likely would have been, if played safer). Anyways, there's always next year.

yes! endings are really important, I find it hard to anticipate 4 to 5 moves to but feels like it's something that comes with time, depending on the situation I can do it but some are more complex

going strong at start if you have a material advantage sometimes work, then exchanging lots of pieces.

https://eprimefeed.com/latest-news/nepomniachtchi-and-liren-will-play-for-world-chess-crown-in-spring-2023-kxan-36-daily-news/143356/

This exciting event (a match without Magnus) will have to wait almost a year, rather sad.
By the way, I just now noticed that Nakamura, having lost to Ding Liren, lost not only the second place, but even the third, and now if someone from the Nepomniachtchi - Liren pair cannot/refuse to play, then Nakamura still has no chance.

Will it really be so exciting without Magnus? I doubt it and I also think that the public will see the person who becomes the new world champion as "weak" as Carlsen didn't play in it. I followed the last couple of championships mainly because of Carlsen, to see if he could retain his title, but will probably only follow from a far distance next year when the world championship will start.

let's see if Magnus gets excited about playing again after we have the results of this tournament
could happen!

it'll be good to him to take a break and rest a bit too

If an old champion has no motivation to defend his title, then he is weak. Like it or not, but the motivation and will to be the best for many years is one of the parameters that determine the strongest players. Carlsen gave up the title and the fight for the vacant seat is interesting by definition.
In addition, we can assume that the level of contenders for the title is approximately the same, so we will see a sharp fight and not the dominance of one side, as in previous matches.

I Agree with this mate, you are right once a old champion don't have a motivation then a big chance of loss are there. Once a person has no motivation it's will satisfied in small values and in chess once a player don't have a motivation  there's a chance that player is a lock of focused during the game and if that's will happen then th3 victory of his opponent is weaving. If a player who has motivation focus and determination is in there so victory will follow.

Of course. The termination of domination and the subsequent division of the inheritance is always interesting. In addition, if you are interested in betting, then this match will be just expanse for betting - usually 90% of games end in a draw at this level, so you can come up with a lot of "sure" multibets here. I don't think that Nepomniachtchi will be as emotionally affected as in the game with Magnus.

lol, the internet judges
we have no idea what are the challenges in the guys life, 1 million things could be happening on his personal life and he already proved he's the best... what's the big deal on taking a break now and then?

I wouldn't call Carlsen weak but it is indeed interesting that he vacated his title. In his mind, he has nothing to prove anymore as he is already a 5 time world champion and one of the greatest chess players of all time.
I hope that he can reach the impossible 2900 elo level as that would be some accomplishment!

Yes, the truth is that chess represents a lot, besides, the one who is good at chess is probably very good in many sports, because he uses his brain very well, and if we start to see things from another perspective, even in boxing he you have to put a lot of strategy into it, and those who are very strategic and intelligent can beat the most cunning boxers, and this is something that many do not see, some believe that it is only strength, chess helps to develop a series of talents, but chess itself requires a lot of effort and produces a lot of fatigue, I would really like to see a world championship that is more and more famous.

There is some motivation dip when you continue the same winning streak for years and now he don't want to defend the the world title for it.In one interview he also said that if Alireza would win this competition he would defend the title but now he has made up his mind not to do so.There could be some other reasons also but for me is master of endgame and have well strategy for the game.

These are not arguments from the internet, but simple facts: regardless of the reasons (physical, mental or otherwise), the one who cannot defend his title is obviously weaker than the contenders. Strength is a combination of factors, not just one factor. Carlsen came close to repeating Kasparov's period of dominance, but gave up almost at the very end, probably such a distance is extremely difficult in every sense.

some say that the process for mastering all arts and activities is the same.
I agree with the idea that someone who's good at chess is possibly good on other sports IF they practice it

sweat will usually beat talent if talent doesn't sweat.


I disagree if they're not defending their title because they simply don't want to (for whatever reason)

I think the same, on the NFL we have also seen a period of unprecedented dominance with Tom Brady and he has stated that he will retire when he does not feel like going through the grind of preparing for the next season, Carlsen despite probably being one of the most gifted chess players ever is right now not willing to go through that kind of grind, now there could be many reasons for this, but the fact is he is tired of defending his title for now and if that is the case then he will be nowhere near his top game, and in that case it makes more sense to allow someone else to take his place on the world championship.

However this is not completely bad news, in boxing there is the concept of lineal champion, with Carlsen out for the time being whoever wins will have his legitimacy questioned as he did not beat Carlsen, this will raise controversy and eventually once Carlsen comes back and he is serious about chess again we will have a match between whoever is the current champion at the time and Carlsen, which in my opinion will be very interesting.

that is a quite interesting situation indeed South Park
may give room for other people to shine and put Carlsen out of the spotlight for a while
let's see

it's better to take a break than to be in a place where you're not 100% present or happy

I agree that the return of Magnus will be very interesting (especially if he can keep his strength, which seems doubtful to me). As for the new champion being "doubtful" that's not entirely true. If you look at the history of chess, it almost all consists of the fact that, for example, the current champion could run away from a stronger challenger for years (under various pretexts), while he remained the champion. It was even quite recently when Kramnik beat Kasparov (by the way, illegally) and then ran away from the rematch. But now all these processes are established and the competitions are held fairly, so any new champion will be completely fair and legal.

The Olympiad is currently underway. Based on the performance there you can also make a nice estimate which opponents are potential challengers for Magnus Carlsen. So far he has again shown that he is world class. That board 1 player from Uzbekistan is a player to keep an eye on, he became world champion in quick chess or rapid (one of 2) in December and in the last game he beat Magnus Carlsen. Also has a rating of around 2700. Together with Firouzja those are the challengers Carlsen would like to play against I think.

I haven't really played chess from my smartphone, but it would be interesting, regarding the blitz they are right, although I really like the ones that are 3 minutes long, but if you want to feel the real adrenaline there is no way to put it in 1 minute In the end, at least for me, I make moves that don't even have any logic, just so that time doesn't run out, of course when they are calculating my rank, that tends to distract even the most experienced, because sometimes they tend to think that moves that don't they have a lot of logic there is genius in them, many times in chess we can run into that type of moves, like the sacrifice of a queen or rook, that always makes our opponent think.

I usually prefer playing on my phone than on the computer because I can see the whole board better
but you are right, fast games are tricky and sometimes the winner is not even the best player, but the fastest one, sometimes the user is losing and starts to move any piece but really fast just to get time to on 1 minute games.

Whoever becomes the next champion will be legitimate, however the concept of a lineal championship in boxing is extremely simple “you have to beat the man to become the man”, now if Carlsen was retiring for good or he died while being the champion, which is what happened to Alekhine, then no one will have any questions about the next champion being the best player, but most likely Carlsen will at some point comeback as he is quite young, so people will always wonder what would have happened if Carlsen actually went to the trouble of defending his crown? This will create doubts about the current line of champions, undeservingly so but I think it will surely happen.

Well, yes it is true, but we also do not know what situations he is going through, even so that will not take away all the mastery with which he plays chess, I would like to one day reach his level, but it would be with training almost 24 hours a day and that It would not be normal, in fact, it would be a great effort and I think that in the situations we are currently experiencing and with all the things that must be done, it is not very profitable, so perhaps he is going through a personal and very particular moment, but I don't think that has to mean that he is weak, I think that even with thousands of problems he will continue to win and be champion.

Not to burst your bubble or anything, but chess GMs have one thing different from other normal chess players like us- they are genetically born with it.

Imagine, Magnus Carlsen at a very young age can calculate lines in his head blindfolded. I remember watching a chess video where Magnus was able to defeat more than 10 players simultaneously blindfolded in an exhibition match. Even if we do train for 24-hours a day, which is seemingly impossible, I really doubt that we will be able to reach the height of these super GMs in the chess field.

Like what you also mentioned, Magnus does not have to prove anything to the chess world. He is undoubtedly, the best chess player in history especially in the era of chess engines.

I agree that some people are simply born different
but I also think that anyone can become a GM with enough training and dedication!
I've seen GMs that started at an young age and after 10+ years became grand masters
so, it's probably possible.

Oh yea it is definitely possible with enough training and dedication! The problem is, your journey would take so much time compared to these natural-talented and hardworking GMs that are just built specifically for chess.

As someone who has been playing this game for years, I am proud to say that I only reached a peak rating of 1300. It is so difficult analyzing games and remembering lines due to the sheer amount of information that you have to digest and know at the same time; and oh, don't even mention about endgame techniques as that kind of preparation and mastery is another world to live for.

This is true. No matter how hard you train to be a Super GM, or to be somewhat near their skill level, you'll still be inferior on what they can do because it is already wired in their brain and is within their genes. A lot of times, those who only strived to be the best can attain Super GM status and can even compete among the gods, but they can't win world championships and will always come in second. Magnus' chess knowledge and his ability to run lines within his head and come up with an extremely accurate outcome just like what the chess engines are producing is just insane. I know Ding Liren, Nakamura, and Nepo also have this ability, but to be able to do it on almost all your games is just incomprehensible to me.

Also, his decision to not defend his title is something I respect. Dude's been playing for that top spot for over a decade now. The best of the best does not need to prove himself to anyone, especially if a lot of people have tried to prove themselves against him and still not succeed.

This is one of the advantages when champions like Carlsen can do it, all those who have not been able to beat him know that if they do not do it they cannot or feel that they will not advance, this is something that I do not know how to interpret, some call it "pitch "Others call it the need to beat the best, if I beat the best it is likely that new challenges will come that must win and not live under the shadow of a rival that they could not beat, and like boxing, all fans do that they "compare" and sometimes this is a mistake, there is always tension in chess players, it seems unbelievable, because chess athletes usually have an overly diplomatic attitude, but on a mental level the pressure is great.



Yes, you are right, you do not need to prove anything, and what you say about the study I agree with you, there are people who play chess almost by inertia and they do it very well, in fact the people who do it at a Masters level stay there in that level and they don't do anything else, they think that's as far as it goes, everything, but there will always be someone who is much faster and a better player, I know that through the study of plays you can have great success, even to be a grandmaster you need to accumulate many championships, but when it comes to simultaneous, I think that's where you measure who is who, that's something that must be taken into account, not everyone has that ability, I've never tried something like that.

idk, even some GMs take decades to master it

for me participating on presential games, joining competitions and studying theory has helped me a lot
I could climb from 1350 to 1600 in a week, now back to 1500

long journey

Has anyone noticed on YouTube that Carlsen is advertising some kind of casino? I don't remember the name, but I do remember the slogan "Zero Risk Gambling" hahaha. Judging by his participation in poker competitions and this advertisement, it can be assumed that he is increasingly immersed in the world of gambling. Is this just making money interesting or is he seriously interested in this area? I hope this is a passing fad, I would like to see him in the next cycles of the Candidates Tournament.

I have not seen this but there could be some very deep reasons for this new interest in gambling, I have seen chess go from humans being better than computers, then being evenly matched to a complete dominance of computers over humans, poker due to its nature is still a game in which humans are better than computers and most likely this will remain the case until very smart AI is developed, maybe Carlsen is frustrated with the fact that even if he is the best human chess player he cannot beat his digital opponents, and he would like to try poker as it is a game in which he could reach the true top, but this is speculation on my part.

didn't see it, do you have any link South Park?

reminds me of a book I just read: Thinking in bets, by Anne Duke
she talks about decision making when facing uncertainty
it's quite good

one of the first chapters is:
Like is poker, not chess

That seems super perfect to me, so if things are like this what is stopping them from playing against Carlsen? maybe they don't want to play with him,? I have seen that many chess players have a very diverse attitude and different from any athlete in the world, they have a different kind of style, and this leads them to be a little more timid, in fact if these chess players are in Carlsen's sights I imagine that he himself will have already contacted them, I don't understand why they should wait so long to play a good game of chess, if it were in my hands, I would organize a good match of the category they want, even in blitz.

If I remember correctly, there are only a few types of poker left where the AI is still weaker than a human. And if you look at the trend, this situation is clear how it will end. I'm not sure exactly what Carlsen's motivation is, since in poker no one player (in modern conditions) has ever dominated. At the highest level, this is a game of luck, where the outcome is determined almost entirely by chance. For Carlsen, it's most likely just entertainment plus making money. I think advertising from an influencer like him is very expensive.

They do more than that. GMs have photographic memory of moves and remember most of the games they played or watched. This was proven by many of them at the quiz where they were shown a board and asked which game it is and they were able to say who played each side.


As for playing blindfolded, there's such a gap between a master and a grand master that it always surprises me. Hikaru Nakamura is known for playing blindfolded and I saw him win against international masters this way. It's amazing how some people are able to perfect their play style.

indeed it's probably expensive to hire Carlsen for an ad and he's probably picky on which companies to advertise for

regarding Poker and AI, can AI bluff? curious about it
for sure it can calculate the mathematical possibilities better than humans, but poker is not only luck, it's a game of skill

What is the game of skill? In all games where only skill is taken into account, AI is already undeniably better than a person - chess, GO, checkers, any other board games. As for bluffing, I can’t answer this question because I don’t know the details, but it seems to me that it can because from the AI point of view, bluffing is a common action in the game that leads to certain consequences with certain probabilities. Since the AI calculates all these probabilities, why not use this technique.

this is the point
AI will take the mathematical and logical approach
and some things are beyond this domain
bluffing is one of them
even though AI can calculate the odds of determined combination of cards being the winner, top poker players can also do it
winning on poker is not about it, it's way more

totally different game than chess
makes sense?

While it is difficult to guess exactly how an AI can bluff we can look at how humans do it to give ourselves an idea of how it may be done, for example in a book about small stakes poker a technique that is recommended for newbies on the game to bluff from time to time is extremely simple, before you begin to play you select a few cards at random from the deck, if you have the impression your opponent has you beat but they do not have the nuts and you see one of the cards you selected beforehand on the community cards then you bluff, this system is extremely simplistic but it helps newbies by forcing them to bluff from time to time and make their playing style more aggressive and unpredictable, so I think that an AI has a more advanced series of rules which allows it to make a far better use of the bluff.

got curious about it and went to search and seems like you're right

Researchers reveal how poker playing AI beat the best human players (https://www.zdnet.com/article/researchers-reveal-how-poker-playing-ai-beat-the-worlds-top-players/)
AI just beat the world’s 4 best poker players: What it means (https://www.techrepublic.com/article/ai-just-beat-the-worlds-4-best-poker-players-what-it-means/)

seems like there's no hope for humans when playing against the machines

what games are next?
do you think AI robots will be able to beat humans on complex sports?

That is what comes next, for a long time there has been a world championship soccer for robots, and even if right now they do not compare to the abilities that humans possess we know the same was true when people decided that they wanted a computer to play chess at the level of a champion, and now look at us, computers are now way better than humans at chess, so it is only a matter of time until robots can outperform humans at most sports, at this point the only advantage that humans have is that we are extremely flexible, even if we cannot beat a specific artificial intelligence at chess we will be able to beat it at almost anything else, however what will happen when an artificial intelligence appears which is as flexible as we are but it retains the ability of computers to calculate at an amazing speed? That is the realm of science fiction and it will be impossible at that point to know what will happen.

I'm curious to see the point where robots can create artist stuff with their bodies (think dance, juggling and performance arts/expression) in a way that is cooler than with humans
maybe one day we'll go watch a play with only robots on the casting
that's gonna be curious

The truth is that this really catches my attention, the fact that Carlsen leans towards games of chance is a reason that he can combine his intelligence for chess and apply it to the game, I don't think it's bad, of course this is mere speculation, but at Seeing Carlsen's level I don't think he gets into areas where he can lose easily and more so if it's about money, could he have discovered certain patterns in gamling and want to try? It would be crazy if he could do such a thing, but it is never ruled out, in any case the master moves he makes in chess are unique and worth highlighting, and it is most likely that he will use all that for gamblig.


That will be very interesting, but let's not be surprised the day these things are seen normally, now things in chess can happen in different ways, there is already artificial intelligence, I don't know if there is still the ajederez21.com page, something like that, there They calculated the rank of each one, but I have my doubts, I think there were already bots playing chess there, because there was a group of people who played like masters, there were some blitzes that I played, 3 minutes long and wow that was impressive.

Now I am looking for a good platform to find a way to play but other than playing with bots, I would like a good online tournament.

Art is too subjective, but if we are talking about juggling, movement, etc., then in any factory, the machines show a grace and precision that is inaccessible to a person, haha.

When it comes to fine arts, neural networks have already reached an incredible level, here is a recent news: This AI-Generated Artwork Won 1st Place At Fine Arts Contest And Enraged Artists (https://www.boredpanda.com/ai-generated-artwork-wins-twitter/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic)
I looked at a lot of pictures created by the Migjorney neural network and this is real art. It is obvious that in a few years it will be much stronger than any human artist, even if forced to draw pictures physically.

well, you are right, but machines are usually good at predictable movement, not original creative surprising things
I'm talking about organic movement, think Ido Portal stuff, fighting monkey, I don't think we'll see machines doing this kind of thing any time soon
but maybe...

I agree that midjourney is real art and has beautiful creations
it won't substitute human artists but both will coexist

The things that the latest technology can create are too unpredictable. Who would have thought that the latest machines that we have right now would be available? We shouldn't limit the capability of the technology because everything could actually be imitated nowadays. Machines are now replacing human functions so I'm sure that they can create human-like figures with almost the same movement in the future.

A lot of GMs do possess an insane photographic memory. Hikaru is a great example on his streams when he's just reviewing chess games. Magnus is also one but he rarely uses the lines that were previously played by other chess GMs. He tries to deviate from those lines that catches his opponents off-guard and just beautifully create new lines on his games. This is Magnus' genius: he thinks like a chess AI with extreme depth that he can think of some crazy moves that even engines cannot even detect.

Weird news from Magnus Carlsen, who withdrew from the tournament he took part in yesterday:

source (https://www.chess.com/news/view/magnus-carlsen-withdraws-from-sinquefield-cup)

It looks especially strange against the background of Mourinho's quote that he attached to the message. Hopefully later we will find out what all this means, but it is clear to me that Carlsen is moving further and further away from chess. Sad.

I don’t personally watch chess very often, but I have watched a few YouTube clips of Magnus Carlson and of course have watched some of the old stuff with Bobby Fischer.  I just read how Magnus walked out of this recent tournament but does anyone know why exactly? Looks like his tweets are a bit cryptic in his reasoning for doing so.

yes, we are creating surprising and unexpected things everyday
Dall-E/Midjourney and these new prompt to image engines shows us that a lot of things will be possible

we'll see


I love the fact that you're comparing Magnus to the AI's and not the other way around.

Makes me want to check that time when a GM beat a computer on Chess, was that Kasparov?


Maybe it's just a break.

It is now clear (although Carlsen doesn't talk about it at all) that this was due to Carlsen's opponent Hans Niemann cheating. I find it strange that the organizers of the tournament invited Niemann, who has already been caught cheating in online tournaments 2 times. Despite the fact that the opinions of the grandmasters are divided (for example, Karpov believes that the defeat is only the result of Carlsen's bad play, and Nakamura that Niemann cheated), it seems to me that everything is very clear here.

how clear Boristhecat?
seems like opinions are quite split in this case

Some friends commented that Carlsen didn't use to behave like that...

maybe he's getting a bit out of shape due to pursuing other things in life than chess
I don't know

I somehow disagree with your statement.

Hans Niemann is not just a chessplayer but he is a GM that rose to the ranks at just 19 years old. While he may cheated in the past, this does not absolutely equate that he cheated on his on-the-board game against Magnus. He actually provided a statement since he felt that these cheating allegations damaged his reputation. After his game with Magnus, chess.com instantly banned him without even showing any proof of the alleged cheating incident.

While I do respect Magnus in every way; and that he will not do something unfounded especially that this tournament is really prestigious, at this hour, evidence must be presented on how Hans cheated. Until they present concrete and convincing evidence on the cheating allegation, I wouldn't blatantly call Hans cheating in this tournament.

We are not top grandmasters and not public figures to keep politeness/conventions. Given the fact that there is no direct evidence, but some big people in the world of chess are openly talking about cheating, this means that there was 100% cheating.


What is your argument? He was caught cheating twice. Do you think this fact testifies rather in favor of the fact that he is honest or in favor of the fact that he is a cheater?
Chess.com always bans without explanation or proof, mostly it is done automatically (if chess players' moves repeat the first line of moves from chess engines), but maybe an exception was made for Niemann and he was banned manually.

In fact, I think absolutely all professional chess players understand that Niemann is a cheater and internally laugh at him (and some do it openly), just watch this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETzdxK7QUmg).

Again, evidence is king. Even if a person has been previously convicted of a crime, that does not entirely mean that they would do the same. Until the camp of Magnus presents solid proof and evidence of Hans cheating on the over-the-board tournament, the fact still remains that this has definitely took a toll to his reputation.

Let us just wait until they release more evidence in proving the cheating that Hans did. While I do respect Magnus, this is the time that he must present solid proof that will substantiate his claim against Hans cheating.

I would like to know what statements everyone is talking about if Magnus silently withdrew from the tournament (except for that post, however, in which he did not speak about anyone) and is still silent? Even Kasparov demanded a public explanation from him for this act, but Magnus is still silent and ignoring him  ;D

Well this is something remarkable, the truth is that I have always put in context that one has a logic developed thanks to Chess and that it can be applied to any event in life, this means that why not? it can be applied with poker, which is another thing that AI has a great advantage over us, it can perform calculations and statistics in record time and that is something that has a lot of weight, for me these things if a human manages to overcome it means that it still we are above the AI, as long as we are dominating that I think we could beat it even at "random", that is why that word that many repeat called "luck" arises.



I find it incredible that these things happen, it's absolutely amazing to me, I don't know, but these things didn't used to happen before, right? For now I think that things always come to light that before had more restraint to do, however people and players, especially those who have never known defeat, are capable of doing whatever it takes to maintain their status as the best, this is something that surprises, one of the greats like Kasparov never even came close to doing something like that, now how do they manage to do bad things because I think that the human being has no limits. And as he says, if Kasparov himself demanded explanations is certainly something serious.

While I agree with you we must also understand that the kind of standards that are necessary in a court of law in order to prove the culpability of a suspect are not necessarily the standards that are going to be used on every other single instance we can find, it is known that computers play differently than the way humans do and this is because they think about chess in a different way, humans find patterns and reduce the possible moves that they can make thanks to their experience, computers just evaluate hundreds of millions of moves per second, this means that computers can make some very weird moves that humans do not understand, so if the top expert in the world of chess says there is something fishy then most likely there is something there.

I understand your point
but it's worth remembering that we live in really weird times nowadays with cancellation culture at its peak
I still think that we should have evidences to condemn someone for a crime....

But they should publish the evidence, it still seems unbelievable to me that Hans has those things to show, I can't believe it, could this be a montage to create more fame for him? in the camp he would have many beds right? I don't know, but it's so strange because now in tournaments everything is so guarded.

And I see that it has gone to great lengths, because even a court of Justice has come, and what you say is true, computers play differently but only because they base everything on numbers and probabilities, so computers don't think they just execute and quickly you know all the moves, that's why they are different.

another thing to take into account when comparing the way computers play is their accuracy is usually much higher
and sometimes they make moves that makes no sense for humans because it's the most accurate move.

quite interesting subject

Have you seen this video? The most incriminating evidence against Hans Niemann (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfPzUgzrOcQ)

I was sure that cheating could not be hidden at a distance and that sooner or later there would be more good reasons to consider Niemann a cheater than suspicion. And in fact it happened. You can watch later clips from this channel - now everyone is intensively checking all available games for correlation with computer moves, but no one has even a close result like Niemann's.

I think that Magnus Carlsen openly accused Niemann of cheating based on these data as well. Now the ball is on the side of Niemann and in the coming days we should expect some statements from him.

interesting video Boristhecat
seems like it goes in a way I mentioned here before
no human player has 100% accuracy on their games
computers usually "think" in a slightly different way than humans.

This is a completely different assessment than the accuracy that everyone is used to playing on chess.com. As I understand it, this is an assessment of moves relative to existing chess engines. The cheater doesn't have to play as the latest version of Stockfish, he can use a less advanced version or DeepFritz or Rybka etc. This evaluation checks the moves against any engine, so a smart cheater who uses different engines will still be caught.
And the peculiarity is that only those moves are analyzed here where the chess player is obliged to think independently - theoretical opening moves are excluded from the analysis, as well as forced moves.
And so now it turns out that the top grandmasters in their entire career can find at most one game close to 80-90 in their games, while Niemann has a dozen 100% games and a dozen 90% games in a few years.
In terms of mathematics, he is 100% a cheater.

I also understand this, but how can it be shown that a computer game can be differentiated from a human one? if a human was the one who created the algorithm, and gives it life through the situations that arise, then for me it is difficult to say that it is a computer when I know that there are people who are very enlightened and see very strange plays and end up winning the game with that move, and although it is very rare, the move is the most effective, in fact I think that any player knows that a human being when concentrating could see many moves, up to 6, 7 in advance and that is in the normal parameters , a chess master imagines that he will see 10 moves or more, maybe that is the advantage, just as a computer will be able to see the same or a little more.


Well according to all this, then it means that if several AIs are combined, it is possible for them to develop the perfect game? There will never be the human side that can get out of the usual or what we always call following the rules to reach a goal? Maybe it's what we've all always wanted to have, but now an AI doesn't give us a chance at anything, of course the man who uses it is obviously cheating, but I imagine that in all the platforms that it is for one to practice, play chess, we are playing against those processors, I think that these machines are very powerful, but even so I think that human thought can do a lot plus.

interesting @Boristhecat
so we got a confirmation

@LUCKMCFLY
just a fun fact
some say chess GMs aren't necessarily the best at memorizing and thinking many moves ahead, they're way better at analyzing the current position and figuring out what is the best move available

they also scan the board and think about what is the structure they want the board to be while the game develops.

Yes, any modern chess program is better than any human, so even if you do not use it for the entire match and sometimes peep some moves, you will get a huge advantage over any human player.


There are more and more confirmations every day. Here is new work from a professional statistician and data engineer:
TOP URGENT! Strong EVIDENCE of CHEATING has been found on NIEMANN's Controversy (https://youtu.be/YnnJ0Da4Rp0)

To be honest, I don’t understand what Niemann was counting on when he started cheating? Chess is a completely calculated game, therefore, having all his games in the history (as well as any other chess player), it is impossible to hide the fact of cheating - some statistical parameter will give you away.

I think he did it for a similar reason scammers use crypto to commit crimes and sometimes are caught due to the permanent nature of blockchains.
He probably didn't think he would be caught
and was pursuing the drill that comes with status of being a winner, even by using these methods

sad to see

He probably did it for the very same reason that we see cheating on sports, very quickly people realize that the only ones that get any attention are the top performers and they earn way more money than the rest of their peers, and they also realize they have no chance of reaching that level, they are good but they are not that good, so they see in cheating a way to try to get to their goal, but they forget that no matter how good they are at hiding what they are doing they are going to eventually get caught.

Or he just wanted to be famous for the wrong and obviously flawed reasons. Everything this guy does, whether on stream or OTB tournaments scream attention-seeking, most recently with that "chess speaks for itself" comment. Dude can't get recognized with his own abilities wherein Magnus is the superstar, so he decided to meme his way into the chess elite scene, and he can only do it by cheating. He may have reached GM status after several years but the fact remains that he's a weak player that cannot even explain variations and give analysis on what he just played.

interesting point of view
so you think the guy's mind could be so twisted he'd want to be known for... cheating?
that's quite messed up

ethics level going below ground

Yes, in the end it all comes down to making a profit. Niemann has cheated in 10 cash prize tournaments, and chess.com is ready to defend this point of view in court (since they published their report). It surprises me that after such a scandal, there are still no sanctions from FIDE - they just created a commission to determine if he cheated in games over the board.

Confirmed swindler, thief and scum without any problems participates in the US Chess Championship.
By the way, today there will be an interesting game between Niemann and Caruana https://www.uschesschamps.com/2022-us-championships/pairings-results

When COVID hit, I think that it was the time that he executed the opportunity of cheating. Lots of sports and companies slowly shifted to that kind of setup and security was not that stringent compared now. Given that most sports/companies have adapted to this kind of setting, they now have all the means of security in detecting these kinds of cheats.

What Niemann and the other cheaters did is just a disgrace to Chess. More importantly, he cheated on multiple tournaments that involved cashed prizes. I wonder what kind of prohibition and ban would Niemann get and the other FM-GMs as well.

Anyway, I do seriously recommend the game that transpired between Magnus and Korobov!

There are many rumors that a chess player has cheated on the world champion Magnus Carlsen. That incident happened in the winter last year, I think. After that they played against each other online again and then Carlsen stopped the game after 1 move. That is going to get a tail, I think an official investigation has now also been launched into these parties of the German player. Chess cheating is a big deal, and you can't always close it all the way for all players. I hope Firouzja will be the new challenger to Carlsen, other opponents don't stand a chance as we saw last year.

Chess is the like by the people all around the world.As the people interest was huge,their was the World Championship for chess also.Carlson was my opinion to win the game,surely I will vote for the Carlson.If the win is based on the voting.But the voting is considered on the draw match.So you think the game will be draw between this two big players.And you had involved the the Chess.com.I had played huge game in that website,it was unique chess website and it had applications for even IPAD.The game and website will be created to increase the popularity about that game.When the game was famous all over the world already,they will create a application for the same.Aliza was the good players with huge strategy,when you are beginner.You should see the old matches of Aliza to know whom he is.You can also guide the less knowledge people .

Cheating in chess. this is a surprise!, really!

I think the real question is is this cheating in Chess new or have they evolved, well, whoever reads a bit of history and reads some of the most memorable games of at least the last 100 years you can find countless tricks that are done in chess to have an advantage, some are embarrassing, covered by a certain bureaucracy of the game that prevents them from being called cheats.

Now, reading the level of technology involved or what are believed to be used, so amazing! well, these are the most astute people on the planet, anyway, the controversy is something that has surrounded the world championships and the world champions in the history of this sport.

In short, if Niemann lies, only time from now on will prove him right, because if he is so good, he should be constant to win, so the current world champion who is "crying" and rightfully so, only has to face him, he achieved goal to expose it publicly, now that chess dictates who is the best... no traps.

do you know how?
just curious but anyone can start a rumor
when explaining it things start to take a different shape

are players allowed to take breaks to go to the bathroom on these huge games?

The data shows that Niemann began to cheat long before covid. As for the ban, the paradox is that the online competitions in which he cheated were not held under the auspices of FIDE, and there is no evidence (there is no direct evidence, there are indirect ones, but this is not enough for "legal" actions) that he cheated over the board.
Thus the swindler and thief (who was caught and admitted it) continues to participate in FIDE competitions. I am simply shocked by this nonsense and impotence of FIDE officials.
To be fair, we should admit that FIDE behaved this way towards cheaters for a long time - they catch only the most impudent ones who don't even try to hide. For example, Rasius, about whom absolutely everyone knew that he was a cheater, but he cheated for several years without any problems despite the complaints of his rivals.

oh, that sucks Boristhecat
and I understand how frustrating it can be

though when it comes to law there's presumption of innocence, so I'm really not sure what could be done in a situation like that.

That is actually very disturbing for what we are used to seeing, reaching victory through an easy path full of traps is not something worthy, of course this from the most loyal point of view of the sport and above all respect for all chess players of the world, I know that robots, programs are very advanced and have most of the moves recorded, they can even give solutions based on what is most logical for them, but I think that a human in his thinking is still superior to a bot, because the human being still continues to give many solutions by going out and breaking every scheme, breaking every apparent logic, and that is a very human characteristic.

shows the big crisis of values we are going through @LUCKMCFLY

regarding humans and machines
interesting point of view
possibly our skill on improvisation and outside of box thinking are the things that would be really hard for a machine to develop

What do you think should be the proper sanction given that Niemann participated in various tournaments where he cheated and won the cash prizes? I do think that we need to see a statement from the camp of Magnus about this allegation. It is has been dragging the Chess scene for a while now and it is not definitely helping in terms of its popularity amongst people.

Given that Chess.com posted a list of GMs who cheated on their website, a rule must be implemented prohibiting/punishing these players, and not Niemann alone.

What list are you talking about? I haven't seen anything like it. Chess.com has openly named only two GMs who have been caught consistently cheating - Niemann and his former coach Dlugi.

As for the sanctions, I think that it should be a lifetime ban in all competitions. And in fact, I consider this a lenient punishment, since Nieman is obviously a scammer and took other people's money through fraud. I don’t understand why he can’t be put in jail like other scammers?

have you watched "tinder swindler"?
sometimes it's hard to put people in prison in some cases of fraud
crazy system

not sure if this applies to the case in question with Nieman
maybe not

on the movie the guy can't really be punished because he does a lot of international scams and fool the women to pay and take loans for him, since "psychological pressure and emotional manipulation" are not crimes he doesn't go to jail.

I haven't seen this movie but I've heard about it. I would not draw analogies, since everything is more or less simple here - Niemann has US citizenship Chess.com also works in US jurisdiction. It would be cool if some independent prosecutor started an investigation against him and filed charges. There are enough reasons for this: he appropriated other people's money using other people's trust - this fully fits the criminal article of fraud, even though there is no criminal punishment for cheating. But the court can qualify any action as it sees fit (based on the opinions of experts, of course).

well, you have a point
seems like the two cases are different as you mentioned
maybe all it takes is someone to get worried with what Niemann is doing and deciding to sue him

And so this is the official documents filed by Niemann for a defamation case against Magnus, Chess.com and GM Hikaru Nakamura. It's it has a lot of zeroes, hehehe, $100 million.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.moed.198608/gov.uscourts.moed.198608.1.0.pdf

I don't know how far this case will go, nevertheless and if I'm not mistaken, this is the first time that we have heard this kind of noise in the chess industry. And so the drama continues and we will see what "proof" Carlsen and Chess.com will produce in front of the court for their cheating allegations.

I have no idea what the laws are like in the USA, but according to what I have been hearing that they do not let any type of event of this kind escape, for me when there are frauds of this style, punishing them for life is usually something quite severe, but I think it is well deserved, scams and everything that involves stealing or taking things from others is something that has to be punished so that the person feels ashamed of what they did and others learn that they want or intend to do the same, depending on how They say it here, so it is likely that if someone very influential in the US political system could make something like this happen?


It really surprises me that this is put into context here, I had always heard things about cheating in other sports, but in chess? this is something that is sometimes difficult to believe, but it is totally believable, now it surprises me that people who know so much have to resort to this type of practice, this chess thing has many followers, it has many fans, it is also a sport for intelligent people, and what they show here has no intelligence at all, so what example do they give? why do they do it? As long as there is an easy but murky path, it will never give good news, it seems to me that these things should never happen.

I think that this would be a very difficult case for Niemann if he wants to prove that a defamation case does exist.

Again, $100 million is a lot of money and Carlsen would definitely hire lawyers who would prove against the idea that Niemann raised. I am also baffled on what Niemann is asking- he is considered a cheater due to participating into online tournament with the use of engines on his side. Given this fact, I do think that the case he filed would be against him- which is worsening his position and futility.

definitely bold to try to sue probably being on the wrong side

somehow reminds me of the Rayder case against BAYC, the guy is obviously a copycat but still used the lawsuit as a way to gain publicity and exposure.
people do some crazy things for clout.

Or let's put it this way, if Niemann wants to prove his innocence and that he is not a cheater.


He probably just balloon that amount to put some intimidation on Magnus, but I highly doubt the court will give in to that demand money of his. And I guess the burden is on his side to prove his innocence. As for Magnus, there are fellow GM that are showing some in Youtube and on print that something is not right. And Niemann had admitted in the past that he has cheated isn't it? So there is already a precedence and for sure this will weight in the court of law.

Right, not favoring anyone, but this could drag his name and if he lost this one, for sure, it will put a dent on him playing chess for sure.


I agree that it will took a toll on his already worsening position in the community. But I guess he just wanted to put everything to rest and this is the right course. Nevertheless, there are proof and this could be used in the court to magnify his allege "cheating".

and nobody is suing him for cheating? in the end

the system is quite crazy, would expect at least something from FIDE, I don't know

too much drama.
how do you all think this will end?

So far, only he is filing lawsuits (which have no judicial prospects) just to save face. FIDE has not been active in this issue for all the years of its existence and has acted only to pacify scandals and negativity around chess (one might say on the side of cheaters). Therefore, here you should not expect any activity from them.
I think all this will end up with Niemann not being able to win anything in court, and the top chess community will try to ignore him.
But the question of the future is more interesting - how will it be possible to detect cheaters (and what about mind games in general) when the human brain is combined with external interfaces? These are questions for the near future, and it looks like they will finally kill the games.

oh, these are really interesting questions
possibly with neuralink it'd be the end of chess championships as we know it
or maybe there'll be some kind of way to detect human-computer interfaces (think a metal detector for nano things in the brain)

There is still no 100% evidence that Niemann actually cheated. It may not be necessary to get caught in the red, but the accusation based on computer analysis alone is not watertight enough. People also have to wonder how it could be possible that he cheated? A video shows that an arbitrator scans metal detector Niemann with one hand, and that nothing was found. That means 100% that he had no electronics with him at the time this happened. How could he have cheated? Online cheating may have happened since you don't work with metal detectors there.

Who knows how exactly he cheated, but I think everyone is somewhat aware it happened.  Anyone who's seen the movie Godfather knows that he probably excused himself to the bathroom where there was obviously a string of anal beads that he inserted into himself...  At least that's what my limited knowledge of the situation and instant judgement leads me to.  I would think if the rumors or allegations weren't true, we'd be hearing from the man himself that they aren't true.  Maybe it's just the media sensationalizing everything and I took it hook line and sinker, but I'm sure I would've seen some sort of honest denial of the event if it happened (the denial).  If it isn't true, someone had one hell of an imagination to come up with this.

To be honest, the issue somehow "died down" a little especially that there are lots of tournaments happening. I am very curious to see as to the case of Niemann when he filed a defamation suit demanding for $100 million dollars for damages in his reputation. Though I am heavily inclined into thinking that the suit would not prosper, I am still looking forward to see the evidence on the camp of Magnus against all the allegations that he did.

With all the evidence that chess.com released (list of cheaters), I think that Niemann would definitely suffer and get the shorter end of the stick. I guess he really had to pay for the consequences of his actions.

These metal detectors cannot detect the presence of an earpiece in the ear (or anywhere else hahaha). You are right that there is no direct evidence that Niemann cheated over the board, but how do you personally feel about a person who has already been caught cheating online? And it happened not once or twice, but more times. From the point of view of ordinary logic and reputation, he is a cheater and it is obvious that few people have the desire to play with him in the conditions that full protection against cheating cannot be provided.

reputation plays a role but it'll be a tough world if we start judging people only for the things they did way back in the past
people can learn and change too
just my two sats here

The world championships in speed chess and rapid will be held in Kazakhstan next week. Not known to many people, but almost the entire world top will participate in this. Last year it was a surprise that Carlse was unable to win both parts, and then a young talent from Uzbekistan won. There is a live stream throughout the day with commentary from very strong chess players such as Peter Svidler. Carlsen will still be looking for revenge after his disappointment last week. There is also a separate section for women.

What a strange date to still hold this tournament, just before Christmas and New Year's Eve? Chess is of course a very free and independent profession, which is the advantage. I don't know who the favorites are to win this tournament, but what I have read is that Carlsen is in conflict with certain organizations. He demonstratively gave up against a German player some time ago, because he suspected him of cheating. It has become very discredited and the reputation of the player from Germany has been seriously damaged.

it's a weird date for a big tournament, indeed

I find that speed chess and normal chess are almost like two totally different games
the skills needed to beat on each are quite different too

Thank you very much for this information- but yea, I do agree that they held this tournament in a very weird date. In between Christmas and New Year where most people are busy, I hope it gains traction on the viewers as most would be very occupied at this time.

Speed chess and normal chess are two different worlds apart. In speed chess, not only do you have to recognize pattern in the openings but you must also based your move mostly on instincts as time is of the essence in this game format. In normal chess, it is more of tactics and technique where you should be playing 90-99% of the top moves in order to garner that advantage over your opponent.

Looks like it's been held around Christmas for a few years now. Strange choice, but maybe otherwise it is quite difficult with the planning of the tournament calendar. You also have tournaments and competitions throughout the year in which all the top players participate. Calrsen always seems to me to be the favorite for every tournament he enters, but last year we saw that the competition is huge. Nakamura is also very good and fast at speed chess. He also won the mini match against Carlsen yesterday for some kind of championship. Last year's talent who became World Champion came from Kazakhstan, I wonder if you can also bet on these games.

do you know if this tournament will be available online for people to check?
would be interesting to follow the games or at least check the PGNs on lichess

What are your thoughts on Magnus winning the three (3) coveted titles- Rapid, Blitz, and Classical Championships? I guess it pretty much sums up that he is indeed the GOAT of chess ever since the retirement of Kasparov. He won Rapid and Blitz respectively for three times now. He has indeed cemented himself as the best chess player to ever walk this Earth!

What are your thoughts on his retirement for over-the-board chess for one (1) year? He mentioned in an interview that he will not be active for a year BUT he will continue to participate in online tournaments.

There's really not much to say about Magnus winning these world championships. We all know by now that this man is legendary in all things chess. I guess it will take a few years before he is bested by someone else. Nepo, Nakamura, and So are some of the players that I have in mind which can better Magnus one of these days, most especially So because Magnus acknowledged the guy's ability to turn a losing position to a very favorable one a few times now.

We're lucky to witness one of the greats of chess in the flesh. And while he may be the world champion, there are a lot of things that he does that a lot of normal people can relate, which is why this dude is a champion in all respects.


Guess it's a shame that he no longer wants OTB tournaments, and I get him because online tournaments are a lot easier to hold, and tournament bodies can issue laptops/computers that are literally airgapped and connected only to one secure server for tournament proceeds. The issue of cheating in OTB tournaments has always been there, and it only made headlines because of the recent allegations against GM Hans Niemann. Lots of GMs have shared their experiences with OTB tournaments and the same theme can be extracted from each one of the testimonials: lack of actual security on the players themselves which can help facilitate cheating through small devices inserted in clothing or even the player's body themselves.

let the man rest
he's young and deserves to live life

I think he has great chances of coming back to OTB tournaments in the future but at this point he doesn't need to prove anything to anyone.
he could take some rest, travel, whatever and come back in 1, 2 or 5 years.
maybe at this point there'll be another player his level.

if he do that then we can not force him not to do that but one thing I assure. If he gonna play online tournament then I think there's a big reason why he choose that I think once he play online he can focus his family and do what he want to do. But if he want to rest and do anything what he want and came back next 2 years then I think he can do it again and win all he need is he must practice inorder to forgot.

He does have the power to choose whether or not he is to play chess OTB and afaik he did attend the games where he bagged the crown and reclaimed his throne. But going back to the subject, Unlike Kasparov who has already cemented himself in the ranks of the Gods, Magnus, and Hikaru for that matter still has more to prove to the people and to their fellow GMs. These two are still in their prime and has probably haven't reached their peak yet, so it only makes sense for Magnus to play more OTB as much as possible. Earning reputation and public acclaim with every win he will bag.

but do you think Magnus will stop playing at all?
he'll probably come back to competing OTB again in some years
no shame in taking a break for a couple years if he keeps studying.

Of course he'll come back. OTB chess is as essential and substantial to Carlsen as breathing. He'll be nothing without it. He knows that much and is probably making some sort of strat to maximize his comebacks. His games against Niemann took a toll on his mental, regardless if Hans cheated or not, so this buffer of his is important in order to remain sharp and deadly in chess. Going back though, I think it'll be best for him to publicize himself more by streaming his online games, disguising it as live chess tutorials so people become more aware of the game.

I think the same
it's always quiet before the storm
he's probably just taking a break and will make a huge comeback in the future

we'll see

I wonder if we'll have someone beating Carlsen one day.

Carlsen is a pleasure player. He plays chess because he likes it. Not just for money or business like many other pros do. Much has been said and written about Hans Niemann. Whether he ever cheated can no longer be proven, at least not with hard evidence. You can only make assumptions, but on that basis you cannot exclude someone from the chess federation. And Niemann will of course never let himself be caught and will not take any risks. Soon the Tata steel chess tournament will start, in which Carlsen will also participate. He is the favorite there, but we also get a number of players from the absolute world top. It is also the strongest regular chess tournament in the world.

I agree
and also imagine how much pressure the world puts on him now after all the victories and trophies
that's why I say we should let him rest a bit and do what he wants

c'mon...

Today the first round of the heavily occupied tournament in Wijk Aan Zee started. Carlsen - Aronian has now ended in a fairly boring draw. But we often see such results in these tournaments, and we will see a lot of draws in this round. There are not that many boards in the strongest group where a color is much better. Carlsen has already said he will not make any statements in relation to accusing Hans Niemann of cheating. Who is not present at this tournament. Maybe for the best, I think Carlsen wouldn't play otherwise and probably other players wouldn't either. The Niemann case is far from over and will continue. He also filed a $100 million claim.

These types of matches often end in a draw. Carlsen with white also had trouble today against Aronian. I think Aronian is the oldest player in this field, which is quite unique. He is only 40 years old. Aronian lost his then wife a few years ago, who had died in a traffic accident. He has a new girlfriend and seems to have revived his chess life as well. But I don't think he belongs to the real world top anymore. There is also a kind of B group in this tournament, but I think there is little interest in that. Those are players who are normally not even among the best 70 in the world. Extra measures have also been taken against cheating, which has been discredited by the actions of Niemann from the USA.

never heard about Aronian before so I went to check
seems like Levon Grigori Aronian is an Armenian chess master

here's his wikipedia page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levon_Aronian

he had the number 2 position in 2014 on FIDE ranking
quite impressive

This guy's been playing Carlsen for years, and most aggressive strategies and styles were attributed to him because of how he takes the center and focus every piece in there for his development. He doesn't shy away from early trades just to further his development. I think Hikaru once said in his stream that Aronian is one of the few players he know that attacks with black pieces and does not care defending at all. I think that aggressiveness is what earned him his rank because not everyone is prepared for such a tactic in today's day and age when sacrificing pieces to gain development is rare.

It's strange that you haven't heard about him - he is consistently included in the top group of grandmasters who play at the most prestigious tournaments and always receive invitations there, you can say that his career runs parallel to Carlsen's.
I don't know much about new stars like Gukesh, Pragnanda, etc. but one of them will probably be able to first surpass Firuja, and then the current tops (simply due to age).

I was unaware that Niemann had taken Carlsen and chess.com to court, and while lawyers can ask for whatever they want when they file for a lawsuit as the court does not really care, and in the case of winning they will assign an amount that is closer to the real damages Niemann could have suffered I still find this to be completely ridiculous, while it seems Niemann may not have cheated in the infamous game against Carlsen, the chess.com report found that Niemann most likely cheated on more than 100 online games, so the description made of him as a cheater even if painful for him seems to be accurate.

maybe I've seen his name before and forgot about it
I like chess but not the biggest fan, I don't usually keep up with GMs games
it's something I should probably look more into to up my game as well

Have you guys been watching the Tata Steel Chess Tournament 2023? Yesterday, Magnus Carlsen has lost a game of classical chess (which is vey rare as he usually draws games with the black pieces) against Anish Giri. Anish has been playing outstanding in this tournament, even defeating Gukesh in which I consider one of his immortal games when he sacrificed majority of his pieces to have an attack.

What do you guys think of this tournament? Will Magnus be able to reach that coveted 2900 rating anytime soon or is it something that is impossible to obtain given the current rankings and standings of the players?

I haven't watched it so I went to search
this is the official website for the tournament
https://tatasteelchess.com/

and here you can check the game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=galDrRcXCY0

can anyone confirm if this is a legit video?
does the tournament publishes the PGNs of games afterwards?

Carlsen is clearly not doing well this tournament. The match he won against jet talent from Germany Keymer was still of a high level, but against Giri he took quite a beating. Incidentally, you should not underestimate Giri, who has been among the best 10 players in the world for years and years, so on a bad day you can easily lose to it. We shouldn't write Carlsen off right away. He has 2 out of 4 but this tournament is very long, 13 rounds in total. De Uzbeek has mixed in the world top in a year and is now shared at the top with Caruana and Giri. Today the gentlemen had a rest day, tomorrow they can go again. Carlsen will really have to win to start his catch-up race. I can see Carlsen eventually becoming first, he is normally so much better than the rest and has also won this tournament several times.

maybe taking so long off made him go a bit out of shape
I don't know
anyways it's normal to have fluctuations along the career, we're not performing our best everyday for years to come, life comes in weaves

Anish Giri is easily one of the world's current top 10 in chess, although him winning against Carlsen in a classical match is literally unheard of for the past decade. This win may either mean that Carlsen is somewhat not focused or Giri just prepared extremely for this tournament. Even GM Ding Liren got his lost against Pragnanandhaa in a classical match. Imagine a 2684 elo GM beating a 2811 elo grandmaster in chess IN A CLASSICAL MATCH, IN A TOURNAMENT? That's not something you see every time.

But as always, Carlsen will claw back in this tournament and win this. This is classical chess, and he's ranked number 1 in it for all the valid reasons.

I don't understand why Niemann could sue Carlsen, as far as I know he didn't say anything that is greatly damaging to Niemann's image, only a cryptic tweet and a resignation on move 1. Niemann is acting out of defense here lmao, so much that he looks and sounds as if he's really guilty and is trying to pin the blame on the Carlsen and a harmless website who just happened to see that his moves are a little too computer-like. I don't know where this case will end up to but suing chess.com and Carlsen isn't really going to help with his reputation within the chess community. He's gonna be known for being the man with the beads up his ass until the heat death of the universe.

Ding Liren's defeat is probably even more surprising than Carlsen's defeat - after all, Carlsen gave up the chess crown, and Ding Liren will take part in the match for it. I think no matter how much Carlsen deceives himself that by giving up the crown he will be able to continue to dominate as he used to in regular tournaments, this is not true. When an athlete loses motivation, it affects the results in all tournaments. Perhaps Carlsen is already on his way out of the top 1.

And what a way to end it, if ever. It would be best if he gets that 2900 rating first before he calls it quits. He's still got a lot of time ahead of him, and he's obviously getting even better as time passes. Sadly, if you stay too long at the top and can't meet someone who's worthy of being serious, you'll eventually lose the drive to continue doing what you do best and I guess that's what's happening with Magnus now. But yeah, I'm still hoping that he reaches the elusive 2900 before he quits chess for good, otherwise it will be a long climb for Ding Liren before he gets that rating.

Clearly not Carlsen's tournament. You have a tournament like this once a year. It is a pity that this is now the same at the most prestigious tournament. But Carlsen has won this tournament several times in the past. I remember you need a score of around 10 out of 13 to win the tournament. Carlsen has 2 out of 5, so he will have to get at least 7.5 points from the remaining 8 games to win the tournament. I would bet my money on the player from Uzbekistan, who also became world champion in speed chess last year. Came up at once. I have no idea why Carlsen is playing this tournament so badly. Maybe a dip.

Considering that only two chess players currently have ratings above 2800 (one of which is Carlsen himself), the task of scoring 2900 looks unrealistic. Even when he announced this goal of his, some grandmasters said that it was impossible. Since then, it seems that Carlsen did not play better, but vice versa. I think that this task will be submitted to the next generation of players, including Firuja, Gukesh, Eregaysi, etc. simply due to inflation (albeit slow) rating.

2900 may be a rating that man will never reach. If he plays a bad tournament, he has to win 2 tournaments somewhere to compensate for the lost points. I think Kasparov had a rating of 2854 at his best ever. Carlsen once hit 2900. Maybe this whole Niemann thing has started to piss him off after all. That is something that is in the back of your mind and people everywhere naturally want to ask questions about it. It makes a difference that Niemann was not invited. Ding Liren is also a player above the 2800 rating, but at the moment he has not been able to show anything spectacular. Carlsen will have to show why he is the world champion and will have to win a few games in a row. However, this tournament is heavily occupied, so there are no easy victories here.

can you talk a bit more about inflation rating? first time I hear about it
I didn't know the top rating would simply go up over time and doesn't make a lot of sense for me to think it's due to people artificially raising it, but due to GMs getting better and better over time, maybe?

A pretty boring day today. Played an awful lot of draws, which is not uncommon. Carlsen couldn't achieve much with black against van Foreest and so the gap to the leader remains large. I wouldn't dare say who the absolute favorite is, since this field is so strong that everyone can win and lose against each other. Good preparation is half the work. There were also rumors that Firouzja would not participate because he could not agree on the negotiation of his participation money in the tournament. It's strange, as a chess player you want to keep playing against the absolute world top, don't you? Not participating due to a refusal of starting money can also damage your reputation.

It doesn't work that way. The FIDE rating is based on the ELO principle and there you have to not just win tournaments, but gain a certain percentage of points. That is (purely conditional percentages, I don't remember the exact numbers) player 2800 should win 70% of games against player 2600 and against player 2500 he should win 80% of games. So if he wants to climb 2900, Carlsen has to show a crazy win percentage against the rest of the tops.


Yes, on the one hand, you are right that the players are getting better and thus both the average rating and the top rating are growing. I won't be able to tell you much about inflation as it's a complicated issue (and many people even think it's the other way around in chess - rating deflation) - you can see the main points here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system#Ratings_inflation_and_deflation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system#Ratings_inflation_and_deflation)
But it's clear to me that new players who enter the system bring more points into the system than retired players take away, so the total (and average) number of points becomes more = inflation.

Carlsen won another game today. Player from Uzbekistan has won again and is now a full point ahead of the rest of the field. Wonder if Carlsen can bring back the tension a bit. With black he is vulnerable. I don't know if Carlsen's goal is to reach 2900. Perhaps it is not realistic to have that goal. Then he will have to get a big plus score at all tournaments. A bad tournament is actually disastrous. I have not followed the Challengers group, but that is also a few levels lower. Iran secretly now also has some strong chess players, although Firouzja recently switched countries?

With two defeats in a row against not the strongest chess players, Carlsen's rating will drop after this tournament, no matter how far he plays.
There are always many strong chess players and female chess players in Iran. They run away from there with impressive regularity - if you search on Google, someone is constantly running away from there because of scandals with the hijab and other religious nonsense.

Carlsen has now recovered with 2 victories in a row. Especially today's victory shows that we shouldn't write Carlsen off. Difference with the leader is 1.5 points. A considerable gap, but in this tournament 13 rounds are played, so we are only just over halfway. Carlsen is a player who can still score 5 out of 6 in the last 6 games once he gets going. But of course he is no longer the favorite for the title. Whether he will lose a lot of points will depend on the 2nd tournament half. I read that he has already won this tournament about 8 times, that is really a lot. Perhaps more than Kasparov ever before in this tournament. It's a pity that man has stopped playing chess.

Field of competitors is very strong. Carlsen may be back on track, but his current score is still way below his rating. He really needs to win more to make sure he doesn't lose more points for his rating. I also expected more from Ding Liren, one of the few players with a rating of 2800+. The way Caruana lost to Carlsen today is illustrative. It is a pity that Firouzja does not participate in this tournament, that was definitely a contender. Carlsen has said that he only wants to play a match for the world championship if he can play against Firouzja, he apparently does not find other opponents interesting enough. This is also evident from his punishment against Nepomniachi, which had become a battlefield for the Russian.

I love how we care so much for an imaginary number
a bit like if the rating is all that is important

it is, don't take me wrong
but no need to be up only, it can come in weaves.

Humans love to push themselves beyond what is considered possible, this single quality has allowed humans to create everything around us and to go further than any other species on the planet, it is apparent Carlsen does not consider holding his world title a challenge at all, but if the highest achievement which can be reached on his discipline does not motivate him anymore then how can he keep playing chess at all? And it is probable he has chosen as a goal to reach a rating of 2900 to keep himself interested on chess.

good point and I do agree that our desire to go beyond is amazing and the motor to create many good things (and some bad ones too)

life comes in weaves, maybe Carlsen just got tired of it after so many years, I have no idea about his personal thoughts and personal life.
each person is a galaxy of combinations.

A nice win for Carlsen today, but he had to work hard for it. He still has some work to do, but it looks like he is now 1 point behind the leader. There are still 3 rounds to play, Carlsen is a player who could win all 3 games. I don't see Nodirbek and Giri doing that any time soon. Nodirbek was very lucky against Keymer yesterday. Keymer was able to secure the point in a rook endgame with a simple turn, but did not play well and it eventually ended in a draw. A stroke of luck for the Uzbek, but they also often say that you have to force luck in such matches.

It would be very indecent if the first place in such a prestigious tournament was taken by a chess player with two defeats (even if it was Carlsen himself). Still, I will assume that the first place will go to either Giri or Abdussatorov - at the moment they are playing very reliably and they have not a single defeat.

do you know how long we still have before the tournament ends?
is this one also on lichess or other place where we can keep up with the PGNs on table?
thanks

Today is a day off from the tournament. There are three gaming days left: 27, 28 and 29. If you want to watch the games online, then you should probably choose something on Twitch (I don’t know what language is your native) there are always a lot of streams from the pros (I always watch such since I don't have a high level of understanding of what's happening over the board and I need an announcer). I myself do not have time to watch classics online now (and in fact, few people have that much time and this is the main problem of this format).

The field of participants has not grown closer together. Carlsen wins today with white to achieve absolutely nothing against So and most games ended in a draw. Giri couldn't break any pot against the leader with white either. It was the ultimate chance for Giri to become undivided at the top. Tournament win for Abdusattarov is getting closer this way. This seems to be one of the greatest talents of recent years. You can't compare him to Carlsen, but outside this tournament he also won the Rapid World Championship 2 years ago. The world's top was there at the time. I think we will expect a lot from him. 3 more rounds, a lot can still go wrong for him. Maybe the experience will break him down after all.

yes, I thought you can probably find commented videos on youtube and so on
though video is not my favorite format due to the time it takes
would like to check the PGNs to see the lines and games and try to learn a bit by watching how they play

Too bad Carlsen couldn't win today. This way he still remains 1 point behind the leader. In the event of a tie, a jump-off is played between the front runners. In theory, Carlsen could still do the tournament, he doesn't have a bad draw in itself. But the 2 losses in a row will probably cost him his head. He has recovered very well from those defeats. Here, with a rating of 2700, you can easily become last without winning a game. I think this is also the Wimbledon of chess, because it is so heavily occupied. there will also be a lot of prize money to be won.

I think Carlsen no longer has a chance, since Giri, who is in second place, has two easy games, and Abdusattorov has one easy game, but also one (tomorrow's) hard one - with black against So. But Abdussatorov has a whole point of advantage, so he has the right to make a mistake. Carlslen himself will play against the younger generation in the final two games.

The 1st round of the Tata chess tournament is currently being played. Abdusattorov is still undivided at the top, but with black it seems that he cannot get further than a draw against Wesley So, which is not a bad performance either. Carlsen is currently one point behind, but still seems to have an advantage and can certainly play for a win. With that mindset, Carlsen would then be only half a point behind and everything is still open tomorrow. Giri has half a point less but seems to lose quite clearly today against compatriot van Foreest. In the event of a tie, there will be a tie break, in which Carlsen is the favorite for me.

Quite surreal that the world's number 2 is so far behind in the standings for Tata Masters. Giri, on the other hand, seems to be playing extremely well, defeating both Magnus and Ding in classical. I know that Abdusattorov is the heavy favorite to win this tournament, but if So wins against him today, that might give Giri the chance to snag the first place and become the tournament champion. Van Foreest will be a hard match against Giri, but a draw would be very much welcome as that still puts Giri in a comfortable position even if Carlsen manages to beat Pragg.

Giri got away well against van Foreest who was on the win. Now it's a statement that can go either way. Giri should be better with these kinds of positions, but winning won't be easy. Carlsen no longer has a preference and can now decide whether he will play all or nothing. He could promote black to queen and then see how far he gets with f4. But then a dangerous position arises, which can also work if Black wins if Carlsen goes too far. Given Carlsen's mentality, he may still take some risk to bet full on the win with all the risks that entails.

Today's defeat threw Ding Liren straight into the basement. Now he shares the last three places with the other two losers. A truly unexpected result, given that he will take part in the match for the crown. And it turns out that at the end of the tournament his rating should fall below 2800 - with three defeats and zero wins in the tournament where he was number 2 in the rating, this is inevitable.

It is unbelievable but true: The Uzbek handed over the title in the last round, against perhaps the weakest player of this group. Van Foreest won with the black pieces and Giri won with white, so Giri came first and the Uzbek 2nd. Of course he played another great tournament, but one of them was a win with black against Magnus Carlsen halfway through the tournament. And won a lot of rating points, but he won't have much fun now. He has been on top from the start and today suffered his only defeat of the tournament. Perhaps the minimal experience and tension was the deciding factor for him today. In any case, we will hear and see a lot more from him, that's for sure.

In the long run, I think he was 1.5 points ahead of Giri. But then he started playing too many draws, and Giri played constantly and won a few games. I think Giri is also the only undefeated player in this tournament and can therefore climb up the rankings again. A nice game from Carlsen today, in a very difficult position. He still won that one and that's how he came close to winning. But if you lose 2 games in a row at the beginning of the tournament, you can actually forget about the tournament profit. Van Foreest had a bad tournament but made up for it in one fell swoop by winning against the leader with black today, which the rest of the field had failed to do.

Yes, a very disappointing defeat for Abdusattorov. Apparently, the psychological pressure had an effect and before the decisive game he "burned out" - losing with White in such a situation is like losing in football at home to an outsider 0-3.
We should be happy for Giri - before that he had 5 times (lol) taken second place in this tournament and now he was finally able to climb to the top.

in case anyone is interested I found the PGNs of all rounds of Tata Steel Challengers 2023 on lichess

https://lichess.org/broadcast/tata-steel-challengers-2023/round-11/wflCxqsK

this link also includes lots of live tournaments brodcasted there

https://lichess.org/broadcast

for those like me who prefer seeing the games on board instead of video may be a good idea to check
:)

As I said, Ding Liren's failure had a dramatic effect on his rating - he not only flew out of the 2800 club (where only Carlsen is now lol), but even fell to third place. Now he has 2788 points, while Nepomniachtchi (who moved up to second place for the first time in his career) has 2793. Quite an interesting rearrangement before the match for the chess crown. However, a match and a tournament are still very different things, so it's not a fact that any conclusions can be drawn from these events.

Even still, this shows that a lot of players are still improving that they managed to win against the current number 2 who is known for his solid defense and very conservative midgames. Giri for example, edged out a lot of strong players and managed to win the tournament despite Abdusattorov being the favorite. Quite sad for Ding honestly, but it is what it is. He might not have time to prepare unlike his opponents in this tournament but oh well.

after reading this post I realized I don't know much of the calculations of the rating system was curious about it
I understand how it works to match similar level players and that'll earn more points by beating someone with a higher rating than you instead of a lower one
but I didn't know how's the math on that

found this:
https://www.chess.com/terms/elo-rating-chess
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

the probability bit is really interesting:

The truth is that I have missed all the games of this championship, could you tell me where I can see these games =?' Since I have not seen any and I would like to know if they have any special channel to be able to acquire it, I do not have IPTV but just to see the channel that this type of competition can give me, I am able to put it, look around for someone who provides the service for Being able to enjoy watching it on the internet afterwards is also interesting, but there is nothing like seeing it live, the sports channels I have do not cover this type of event, which seems to me a big flaw for the cble company, however I would like to see them live, it is something extreme, but I like this sport a lot.

It is not rare for candidates for the championship to suffer from bad performances on the months leading up to the match, and this is not only because Ding is studying his opponent exclusively. leaving everything to the side, but this also happens because whatever breakthrough and new moves his team could device are being kept in secret, and this could cause a decrease in his performance as it is the equivalent of fighting with one of your hands behind your back.

If you are interested in sports betting, then you should study this issue well  ;)
The strength of teams/ranking/etc are based on this math and then reflected in bookmaker quotes. The quotes that bookmakers give us are inversely proportional to the probability that the team/player will win. It's all about probabilities.

Ding Liren has indeed played a bad tournament for him. Anyway, if you have a rating of 2800+ then you also have to achieve a TPR of 2800+ in order not to lose any rating points. Giri, the tournament winner is the big winner on all fronts. Tournament win, a lot of prize money and also won a lot of points for his rating. A list of all chess players with a rating of 2700 or higher is also available at www.2700chess.com
A number of talented chess players have been added. Hans Niemann is also on this list, but tournament organizers won't be thrilled with his participation because he has been accused of cheating at several tournaments. Well, innocent until proven guilty, I guess?

Ding Liren has indeed lost a lot of points, but he also seems to be less active. And Nepomniachi has been suspended for several months by FIDE for his open support of Puting. I especially expected more from Ding Liren during this tournament. Firouzja was also the big absentee, but rumor has it that he did not agree with the amount of the prize money. He can of course make certain demands as a top 3-4 player in the world. And the year before, there was also an incident in a party of Firouzja, who was asked during his game if they wanted to continue their party in another place. Those are things that are really not done, was a gross blunder by the then arbitrator.

quite interesting
is it always the case?

I'll definitely look more into it

so soccer, basketball and other sports bookers also use the same elo systems?

do you have any links to point me to on that?

If you want to make money betting on chess, I would definitely go for the draw option. Many games end in a draw. You have to see who is playing then. If Magnus Carlsen is behind the chessboard then I would watch out because he goes for the win every game. There are a number of players who often draw draws, for example you used to have Giri who drew extremely often. And in the last rounds of a tournament you often have the chance of a quick draw so that players can pack their bags and rest. But I wouldn't bet on speed chess games. There are far fewer draws.

I somehow disagree with your statement as it depends on several factors.

First, you have to consider the time/game format of the tournament. If it involves a classical match between the players, then expect draws to happen given the nature of it- more players have time to calculate and the pressure is relatively low. But, if the game is either rapid or bullet, then drawing the game is most likely off the table as there will be a player that will most likely blunder at the end.

Second, you must also consider the players that will participate. Like you mentioned, Giri has that reputation of drawing such games but if you watched closely, he actually won the recent 2023 Tata Steel Championship. So I guess, him drawing the games are not possible anymore.

Lastly, you must also consider the overall tournament that will happen. If it is a big tournament where top GMs will participate, then expect outrage and chaos on the board.

The average results are that a game between 2 GMs has a high chance of ending in a draw. You can also check this with the bookmakers. But that only applies to regular parties. I think it is one of the few sports where you get such a low amount for a draw with a bet. The question is what Carlsen will do next with a view to his world title. He has indicated that he would only like to play another match against Firouzja, but maybe he should reconsider that statement after suffering some hard defeats in the tournament at Wijk aan Zee, where Giri proved really solid and Carlsen suffered a dip had 2 rounds.

Another simple factor is that it is not as if the bookies do not know this, bookies know that bettors most of the time go for the safest option they have available and in the game of chess between two players of similar ability a draw is the most common outcome, so they probably give the worst possible odds to the draw bet so all the people which go for that kind of bet instead of going for the safest route as they hope they are taking the riskiest one.

You can also bet on live matches in chess. Then I wonder who determines those odds during a match. You can't possibly let a program do that, because it's not football where you score a goal. Then you should base it on the quality of the moves played. I've looked, but the limits for such parties are really very low. And another thing is that players are sometimes approached for match fixing. Those are sports that are sensitive. You can easily play a bad game in chess without people noticing it.

Of course programs can do this. Firstly, they are better than people at determining what the position on the board is (who has the advantage). Secondly, they very accurately determine the quality of the players' moves - there is such an indicator as the loss of centipawns. If the player is in bad shape, then this indicator will be large, if in good shape, then less. If the player is a cheater like Niemann, then this indicator will be zero   ;D

Perhaps what is most preoccupying the chess world right now is the performance of Niemann, who was accused of cheating a few months ago. No sanctions have yet been imposed. Would you say you are innocent until proven guilty? You can't find any hard evidence, or at least not that he was caught in the act. He is now also foiled at every tournament or a hand held metal detector is used to scan him. Shouldn't you invite him to tournaments because he has a bad name? Carlsen has already indicated that he does not want to play against Niemann and he may therefore not participate in a tournament in which Niemann also plays.

It doesn't work that way in sports. It's the other way around: until you prove your innocence, you're guilty. That is why athletes who evade doping tests and the like are banned without question. As for Niemann, he is already a proven cheater, and the fact that FIDE still allows him to participate in their competitions (since he was not caught cheating specifically in FIDE competitions) only shows the impotence of this organization.

Innocent until proven guilty is the ideal but the reality is far different not only when it comes to sports but everywhere, and while it is not clear yet if he cheated when he played against Carlsen there is strong evidence Niemann could have cheated on more than 100 chess online games when money was on the line, so this is a stain that he is not going to be able to remove as this is no longer about the accusations Carlsen made, but about the strong evidence which shows his misdeeds.

Ohh this is interesting but I do understand on why it is the other way around- athletes should put themselves at high regard due to the nature, skill, and fame they put out on the world. They must uphold themselves as truthful to everyone especially considering the scrutiny they face. If they are considered or alleged to be cheated, it is up to them to prove their innocence.

As with the contention against Niemann, it is still being reviewed and investigated. Given the history of Niemann repeatedly cheating on tournaments, I would not be surprised if he cheated on his recent games also.

It's an interesting discussion about Hans Niemann cheating. But to what extent can we say with 100% certainty that he cheated. What would a judge say about this? The problem still remains that he has not been caught in the act, then it will be very difficult. In his performances after that he also played very well while he was checked by all arbitrators with a hand scanner. So in those games it actually seems impossible to me that he cheated, yet you don't know with the new technology. I'm not watching anything anymore. It is a pity that Carlsen has withdrawn from the World Cup.

It's not about morals or ideals or anything. It's more of a math. If the criminal principle is applied in sports (not guilty until caught), then the sport will be instantly destroyed, since even one successful cheater out of 100 destroys the entire existing ecosystem of honest athletes. If you can "legally" run from doping commissioners, refuse to take tests, etc. then competing without doping will simply lose its meaning.

And this is even more true in chess, when it comes to doping it only increases the performance of the athlete and the more skill the sport requires the less effect the doping has on the sport, but in chess you could give a computer with a chess engine to a 5 year old kid and as long as you explained to them they only needed to copy the moves given by the computer and they followed those instructions they will beat even the world champion without any problem, so a very strong stance against cheating in this way needs to be implemented on chess.

that's true
even doping in sports it's really hard to pull out, requires training of specifics skills, time, and comes with much more risks

cheating in chess is much easier to accomplish and with smaller risks

Already the second game of the match for the chess crown turned out to be productive and Nepomniachtchi won with black against Ding Liren.
What do you guys think - the outcome of the match is already a foregone conclusion? There have been very few cases in history when the balance of power has been reversed at this stage. Even taking into account that Nepomniachtchi can be unstable, I would rather believe that Ding Liren will completely fall apart (instability in difficult conditions is also his property) than that he can make a comeback.

With the very unfortunate loss of Ding, I think games from now on would be more interesting as we can expect lots of deviations from the main openers. After the first game, Ding mentioned that he is somehow feeling overwhelmed by the whole situation and there had been a wave of emotions on his part. I do think that these contribute to his overall mentally on this match which led to his loss on game 2.

Though this may be the case, I expect the games further to be more interesting since Ding has to play for the win. He cannot rely on main lines and short-draws as he needs to create imbalances on the position and play solid chess from now on as his back is against the wall right now.

Judging by his result in the grandmaster tournament in Wijk aan Zee, where Dinh Liren completely failed and took 3rd place from the bottom of the tournament table, he has little chance in "open" chess. Now a few draws would just be very beneficial for him, because maybe he would gain confidence and the will to endure and wait for Nepomniachtchi's mistakes. If now he goes into sharp positions and loses at least one more game, then the match can be considered completed. It would be an early risk.

The world championship is officially underway, but it's hard to take it very seriously. It's like organizing a World Cup without France and without Brazil. Because this year at the world chess championship Magnus Carlsen is missing, who himself did not feel like participating. The cause is not entirely known to me, but it seems that he no longer has any motivation to play another match because he would find the opposition too low. Somewhere understandable, but how are you going to tackle that problem? You could also see it as an achievement in itself and also as a challenge to continue to maintain this level that he is now called. And these players are ranked 2nd and 3rd in the world, right? Those aren't cookie cutters.

The ambition seems to be gone at Carlsen. But that incident with Hans Niemann could also have something to do with it. I'm not saying it is, but it could be. Since that incident, Carlsen has emphatically indicated that he no longer finds playing a World Cup match interesting. He would only be interested in a World Cup match if his opponent would be Firouzja. Understandable, because that is perhaps the greatest talent, but can you demand that kind of thing as a world champion? In advance it is actually an exaggerated luxury that as a champion you only have to play the final, we don't see that tournament formula coming back in any other sport.

Bullshit. If a player does not have the physical or psychological strength to fight for the title, then this only means that he is weaker than the contenders. You can fantasize as much as you like on the topic "how he would win another match for the chess crown", but he turned out to be so weak that he could not even start it. Whether you like it or not, there are two strongest chess players in the match right now.

Match for the title of world champion - 2023. Fourth game:

Ding Liren 1:0 Ian Nepomniachtchi

An unexpected victory for Liren which equalizes the position of both players. We can say that everything was decided by Nepomniachtchi's single mistake, but that doesn't matter anymore. Nepomniachtchi is very lucky that tomorrow is a day off and there will be no game - he is famous for his emotional instability and I would not be surprised if, after one lost game, he lost the second. Now he has time to recover.

You can see that on the exchange sacrifice with the rook, you can see Ding's hand shaking when he took that knight. You can clearly see the pressure among these players since a single mistake can cost you the whole game. I was not expecting Ian to lose on the fourth game but he definitely miscalculated when he placed his knight back.

Both players have a point respectively and they will become more careful with the games from now on. At the end of the day, I am rooting for Ding to win this title!

Today Nepomniachtchi won again  ;D I am surprised by such performance in games - usually at the level of grandmasters, draws are almost 80-90 percent, but here out of 5 games 3 turned out to be productive.
By the way, why are you rooting for Ding? If judged strictly formally, he is a cheater and got into the Candidates Tournament in a fraudulent way. I think it would be very unpleasant if he became a world champion.

Ohh I think calling him a cheater is very unfair- he qualified for the candidates due to Karjakin's ban from participating in this year's candidate so under the rules, he is the "substitute" for his place. Still, Ding was around top 3 when the candidates happened and calling him a "cheater" is very uncalled for.

Well, the game ended with Nepo winning this match. I really like what Giri mentioned during the commentating of the game in which he explained that playing with the black pieces is more difficult than white. You have to prepare for all kinds of preparations while white may play any kind of preparation to his liking.

Furthermore, I do think that this year's WC match contained more wins compared to past WC matches that happened.

He cheated not in this. FIDE has certain criteria according to which a chess player must have at least 30 classical games for a certain period (a little less than a year), otherwise he is not allowed to the tournament. Ding cheated and in just a month and made himself statistics in dummy intra-Chinese tournaments to meet this criterion. This is an obvious scam and I do not see what can be discussed here.

In choosing for the candidates, FIDE established a criteria in order to choose players that can and will participate in the tournament for the WC Championship. You already said it:
-in which Ding was able to achieve in the time frame given by FIDE. Though you argued that he cheated since he accomplished this within less than a month, then FIDE should have called this and prohibited him from participating in this event and mentioned that such practice is PROHIBITED.

Again, alleging that Ding cheated just because he was able to complete 30 classical games in a month is just outrageous. If there was a problem with it, then FIDE should have looked into it, in which they did not. Perhaps this is not cheating perse but a loophole that Ding was able to capitalize on that FIDE had no problem with.

I wonder what can be outrageous about the facts? He participated in fake tournaments and the fact that FIDE did not take any steps to punish it does not change anything. I hope you don't need special instructions or a chef's degree to not eat shit if it's served as a cake?
He seems to have played 28 games in 30 days, three tournaments (allegedly they were, no one has seen evidence)  ;D If you are ready to believe it and pretend that "everything is fine" then this is just disrespect for other chess players and good manners in general.

In the meantime, the next game turned out to be productive (what kind of clown indicators?) and, unfortunately, equality again and the chinese cheater has a chance for the crown  :-\

It is a show game as several top players have already indicated. Organizing a World Cup without the best player in the world and perhaps the best chess player of all time. Can you still take a title seriously? The exact reason for Carlsen also seems to be unknown as to why he doesn't want to play a game. In December he also became world champion in speed chess and rapid chess. So he is undisputedly the best player at the moment. I especially see Firouzja as a potential world champion, both play a lot of blitz games against each other online with varying outcomes.

ya.ya.yo!

Carlsen is someone who really likes the game of chess. He is also the very best, and at certain tournaments you can still collect a lot of money as a world champion. Prices are in stark contrast to other individual sports, but there are also sports that are less paid of course. Carlsen may have wanted to make some kind of statement to FIDE (world chess federation) that he disagrees with the current tournament format. Carlsen himself thinks it is much more fun and better to play an entire tournament, even if you are the reigning world champion.

Carlsen is the number 1 in the world, but Ding Liren and Ian Nepominachi are also very good players. If I'm not mistaken, those are the numbers 2 and 3 of the world ranking, so they can definitely decide in their favor in a confrontation with Carlsen. What is striking so far is that few draws have been played. Only 1 time and both managed to win 2x and then of course also lose 2x. Then the question is who can take it now. I think the game can go either way and we don't have a favorite for this game. But in chess, even a small mistake can mean a disastrous defeat. Also at this level of the World Cup.

Carlsen may be number 1 in the rankings, in other tournaments, etc., but since he cannot/does not want to fight for the title of world chess champion, he is, by definition, weaker than those who want and can.

Nepomniachtchi won again in the 7th game of the match and took the lead again. Phenomenal performance. Very strange behavior from Ding Liren who managed to get into a severe time trouble, although this is classical chess and this happens less often than in other game formats.

I do think that Giri mentioned that Ding has a problem with managing his time mostly in classical formats. With the immense pressure from the game, the time got to him which ultimately led to his defeat. Though I was very surprised to see a French opening being executed in a WCC.

I hope that game 8 brings another excitement battle from these two (2) players. Regardless of the victor, I do think that they both deserve the title of WCC and I do think that we may be able to see a conclusion of the battle if Nepo wins today's game.

Ding still has problems with time management today - he thought about the 17th move for more than 30 minutes. This is very good for Nepomniachtchi, who likes to think during the opponent's turn and plays very quickly. Now the position on the board is very difficult - Black has a bishop less, but has three passed pawns. I hope Nepomniachtchi will be able to repulse the attack and then most likely he will win.

Carlsen has already won everything he can, and he's not interested in playing with those now competing for the chess crown.
I don't think either of them are good grandmasters, but I don't think any of them are worthy of the world champion title. All the more, it seems the scales are tilting in favor of Jan Nepomnyaschiy, and if he beats Ding Lizhen, Magnus Carlsen, who beat Nepomnyaschiy in the last game for the chess crown, is stronger than both of them anyway.

At one time Fabiano Caruano could compete well with Carlsen, but now he has given up a lot, and so far there are no worthy opponents to Carlsen.

You say some things from the fantasy world. For example, Carlsen did not win the match for the chess crown (which is currently underway) although he could have.
You can talk as much as you like about the past, about past achievements, about “what would happen if”, but now two strongest chess players are playing in the match and Carlsen is weaker than both of them in terms of fighting for the chess crown.

---

In the meantime, Nepomniachtchi traded queens and thus turned an extremely sharp position into a draw. So the game ended - which is clearly in favor of Nepomniachtchi, who retains the lead.

Well, I agree that there is a bit of snobbery in Carlsen's decision. Probably need to retire from chess altogether if you're so tired of it all, but so far there's no stronger player than Magnus in terms of rating and essence. He's beaten everyone in his way and has held the chess crown for more than 10 years, but apparently no one lasts forever.

The eighth game between Nepomniyashchiy and Ding Lizhen was also excellent, although it seemed that Nepomniyashiy should have lost, but he tied the match with Ding Lizhen.

Carlsen has said many times that he has no motivation to participate in another championship match. No motivation/powers/skills - this means that he is weaker. What can be discussed here. This is not the first case in the history of chess, and always the one who left ceased to be a champion. Moreover, the debate about whether the current champion is the strongest chess player goes on for many periods in chess.

Today Nepomniachtchi kept the draw playing black and now there are 4 games left until the end of the match and the balance is clearly in his favor - he has a one-point advantage and has 2 games left to play with white and two with black.

Carlson game was unique in the Chess Championship matches. Carlson should be self motivated to play many games in the short period. Because while comparing to this strategy, he need to improve his own strategy to do such things. As Carlson said the strong chess player will play the game for the longer period. Nepomniachtchi game also the unique and with the draw game, with 1 points he able to move to the Final. His game against Ding, Liren was unexpected one. Because Ding play like out of match, Nepomniachtchi doesn’t exactly expect the game of draw. Ding had took the power piece of the Nepomniachtchi in the Game 10 of World Championship. Every game Is the important World Chess Championship in the hounds. Game will be held on  24 April,2023. So we have a chance to see the match with Ding and Nepomniachtchi

Another draw, the third in a row (unexpected for this match, isn't it?) and Nepomniachtchi's chances are getting higher with each game. There are 3 games left (although two games for Nepomniachtchi will be played as black) and in order to become a champion it is enough for Nepomniachtchi to score 1.5 points in these games. I think that Din will have to take risks and in one of the games when he plays white we will see sharp positions that will be risky for white as well.

Yesterday Nepomniachtchi pissed me off so much that I didn't even have a comment. Having a won position, he was able to lose the game! Fucked up. It's good that today he drew - in fact, it would be quite logical if he lost again. He is often emotionally unstable and after one defeat can easily lose a second time. Hope he doesn't lose tomorrow. If this happens, we will see a tie-break.

Nepo indeed blundered in that final move where he pushed his pawn. He sacrificed three (3) pawns already and he worsen his position further with that move. The evaluation bar was swinging back and forth from Ding and Nepo's favour and it showed that they blitzed their moves on the final 20-30 minutes of the game.

It was definitely heartbreaking to see Nepo crumble when he made his last move. When he realized that he blundered, he spent the last 20 minutes thinking on how to proceed with the press conference especially when he deals with some weird questions asked by the reporters.

If tomorrow there is a draw and there is a tie-break, what are your predictions? It seems to me that Nepomniachtchi should be better in a game with shortened time control. If I'm not mistaken, Din had less of that kind of game practice in the post-COVID era. On the other hand, Nepomniachtchi is more emotional and this can work against him.

In game 14, it was a dead-draw between the two (2) players. Though Ding tried to at least trick Nepo in the opening, the latter held up his defense well and Ding managed to create a stronghold on the endgame where he defended all of the threats that were on the board.

I do agree with you that Nepo will have the advantage in blitz due to its nature where there is little time. Nepo has better time control in this kind of format which puts him in a great advantage and position. We all know that Ding has a relatively harder time managing his clock and this may be a challenge for him.

Regardless of the winner, I would say that this is the most exciting and gut-wrenching WCC match so far. I am just happy that I got to witness a back-and-forth win between these two (2) players in classical format.

You probably know little about other painful matches, for example Karpov - Kasparov  ;)

Well, unfortunately what I expected happened (I'm a pessimist) - Din won.
My congratulations, but I would say that this victory is overshadowed by the circumstances of how he got to this tournament.
Well, in the future, if he continues to perform in tournaments as he did at Wijk aan Zee, he will be one of the weakest world champions in history.

https://i.postimg.cc/9MMtck6H/Screen-Shot-2023-05-01-at-5-34-52-AM.png

There we have it! Ding Liren is the new Classical World Champion as he was able to defeat Ian Nepomniachtchi during the game four of the Rapid Section! During such game, it was a draw position until when Ding was able to capitalize on putting his Queen on good squares which suffocated Nepo's position.

To be honest, I was very heartbroken to see Nepo's face during the last minute of the game. You can see that his hands were trembling with emotions as he knocked down the pieces during such moment. Though this may be the case, I am very grateful to witness this historic moment where we have our first Chinese WCC this year!

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Photo taken from: https://www.instagram.com/fide_chess/

Yes, it was very sad. But I always put aside such negative emotions from myself, because it is obvious that even despite this failure (for the second time in a row) he remains one of the most successful active chess players, and probably he has fewer problems than 99.99999% of the world's population - he has enough money to live where there is a desire, not to work, etc.
In a post-match interview, when asked if he would again try to become a world champion, he said that "I will still play chess for a while, so yes." Quite modestly.

A great performance by Ding Liren who has become world champion. That's something he would never have thought of on his own. Last year during the qualifying tournament he finished 2nd behind Nepo, but because Magnus Carlsen withdrew, the number 2 was also allowed to play in the final. It was an exciting and exciting match, in which the differences were minimal. Nepo often seemed to be on the right side of the score, but Ding hit back every time. The match in the 12th round was crucial, when Nepo led 6-5 and also had a good position to win. However, things went completely wrong in that match, Ding managed to win the match and that's how we got 6-6 on the board. Ding played brilliantly in the last match of the World Cup. I think Carlsen might enjoy playing Ding next year.

oh that's cool
interesting to see
I found a game Ding x Nepo in march 2020 but didn't find the new one
does anyone know if we can get the PGN for this game?

here's the one I found if anyone is interested

https://lichess.org/study/9epCwgXp

Ding Liren probably won't be world champion for very long once Carlsen feels like playing again. I just don't understand what Carlsen's exact problem was, why didn't he just want to defend his title? Financially it won't be a problem. He has already indicated that he has little motivation, but he will still have to make do with the current opponents in the world top. There are new super talents, but not those that go to the 2800 rating. I would like to play Aronian in a battle for the World Cup one more time, that man has been around for a while and has already won a few times against the entire world top, including Carlsen. He is also one of the few who has won Wijk Aan Zee several times. But that was before Carlsen came to dominate chess.

Carlsen also became world champion in speed chess and rapid chess in December, right? Or was that the year before. I can't imagine anyone else getting better than him. There are computers that can play chess, that is unprecedented how good they are. If you let a strong computer play against Magnus Carlsen for about 10 games, the final score will be about 9-1 in favor of the computer. It is impossible for a human to keep up with the level of a computer. But computers are of course ideal training partners and good for preparing yourself for new games with in-depth analyses.

Just the normal burnout you get when you're groomed to play chess to the point that it became your whole life and personality. The guy deserves a break, honestly we could leave this one tick down his record in the past once he gets the drive to play again but even if he didn't, and he felt like not playing Chess anymore, to the point that he's considering retirement (which is quite possible considering how he's made enough of himself already and how stressful the whole industry is to him) he'd still go down as one of the greatest. I have high hopes for Ding, but until he treats time wisely in his games I'm pretty sure Nepo's gonna knock him out of that pedestal sometime in the future.

I agree to you. He surly need a break - and we must appreciate all the efforts he made for the game

By the way, now the Grand Chess Tour is taking place in Bucharest and today in the third round Nepomniachtchi and Dean meet again, hehe. So far, the game is in the middle and Nepomniachtchi has a serious advantage (one and a half pawns according to the computer), but as we saw in the match for the crown, it is far from certain that it will be realized.

There is harldy any news about if - what are the updates about the tour?
I was not well and havent kept track of the update. Can anyone please update.

That is so true with the passage of time people are making interesting thing. But not many people can concentrate on playing chess because there is so much screen distraction that most of the time people don't concentrate more than 5 mins on anytask. what do you thing about concentration problem in people

It has been weeks since Ding won the WCC and he actually faced Nepo once again in Superbet Chess Classic Round 3 in which the game ended in a draw.

Ding fought against Alireza and he lost the match; and Nepo played against Fabi and he also lost the match. Perhaps both players were really exhausted after the WCC and I think this year's candidates would be very interesting. I am just waiting for a match against Magnus and Alireza as both players will show a fantastic battle between them.

What are your thoughts on the matches of Nepo and Ding in Superbet Chess Classic? Does it really show that they are indeed exhausted and they need a break from chess to rest?

In my opinion the performance of the player also. depends on the audience and reward they get in form of appreciation
Chess is not much admired and appreciated so that is why the players lose interest and focus of mind

I’ve never been huge in to chess but I certainly appreciate the game. I remember my young cousin teaching me how to play on a family reunion at least 15 years ago or so. It was a lot of fun but he kicked my ass. I’ve played slightly here and there & enjoy watching it from time to time. Magnus of course has been a big reason for watching…is anyone able to explain the cheating scandal Magnus was calling out with that one player recently in laments terms ?

performance of the player depends on motivation from the audience- do you agree? there is a limited number of people who play chess - they are not being appreciated or encouraged
the player of chess are mostly sharp minded people who have a different way to approach the things

The day before yesterday it ended, here are the results:
https://grandchesstour.org/2023-grand-chess-tour/2023-superbet-chess-classic-romania/pairings-results

As you can see, Nepomniachtchi took 9th place, and Din 8th (out of 10 possible) - in fact, they both failed. But this is quite understandable, since after such a tense match they hardly had the strength to play classical games. I hope both chess players will improve their performance otherwise it will be quite shameful when the title holder and the challenger play worse than the rest of the tops.

In my opinion, too many tournaments are played nowadays, in the past you had a tournament a few times a year in which all the stars came together and then you had the world championship. Players now play against each other almost weekly, and it is always the same players with the pieces on the chessboard. I think you need to change the setup and think about a different concept. It is no longer fun for the players or for the spectators. A lot is also played online, you can watch things on various broadcasting sites, but Carlsen can also often be admired in matches against the speed chess beast Nakamura.

The World Cup was recently won by Ding Liren, but everyone will say that Carlsen is still the best chess player. It has also been a World Cup for show and commercialism, as the best chess player in the world would not compete. I had actually hoped that Firouzja would make some more jumps soon, we all want to see him in a duel against Carlsen, but will that still happen? Ding Liren will of course have all the rights to defend his title next year, and Carlsen may not want to participate again. Carlsen seems to have lost ambition. Maybe Hans nobody wants to take a shot at the title?

It is not true. Classical chess is now played with about the same frequency as before, or even less (but certainly not more). Previously, rapid chess or blitz was considered a marginal niche and no one took it seriously, but now times have changed and no one is interested in watching a game that lasts several hours. Plus, the development of the Internet allows players to play almost around the clock (if they have the strength) and this is in demand both by spectators and sponsors.

I do agree that Classical Chess is now played more in this day and age.

The problem with watching Classical Chess is the time that each players take a move. Since it takes around more than 3+ hours for the game to finish, it is relatively hard to captivate an audience in finishing a given match. This is the reason on why more rapid and blitz time formats are played regularly in these hosted and prestigious tournaments.

I strongly believe that Chess is in a good position now. Lots of streamers (e.g. Naroditsky, Nakamura, Botez sisters, Levi, etc.) are now hosting more and more videos that increase viewership in this sport.

I remember that Kasparov in one of his interviews said that with the advent of the Internet, chess has greatly increased its audience and popularity, and the only reason why it is not very striking is that other games have progressed in a similar way.
But classical chess is a completely different story - I often watch streams or highlights of chess streams, but I don’t remember anyone playing classical chess online (maybe only during covid). This is an unwatchable format, and in fact, chess players themselves now rather perceive such games as torture (which they are ready for only for the sake of serious profit).

The Global Chess League have been announced for the year 2023. The event is being organised by Tech Mahindra along with FIDE. The league is scheduled to take place between June 21^st - July 2^nd at Dubai Chess and Culture Club. The franchise based league have now reached Chess. It is the largest league of its kind for Chess. The event is gonna be live broadcast. Players from different countries unite as a team and play against each other. Every team consists of six players with atleast two women players.

What are your thoughts on Hikaru Nakamura winning Norway Chess 2023?

I heard that this is by far, the worst tournament that Magnus Carslen had participated in which he did not garner a single win in his classical matches. What do you guys think? Will this fuel and ignite the burning passion that he once had with chess and focus on winning on the next following tournaments?

Hikaru had a great game in which he was against Fabiano Caruana on the last game. Though I was really rooting for Fabi to win, it is nice to see other Super GMs winning tournaments other than Magnus.

EDIT:
I really do think that we need to create a separate board for future chess tournament discussions rather than having to reply in this thread, which is about FIDE Candidates that happened last 2022.

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https://i.postimg.cc/4yZzxX4b/hikaru.png

Photo taken from: https://www.chess.com/news/view/nakamura-wins-2023-norway-chess-round-9

I might be really late to the news but I thought he retired. I remember watching a video clip on youtube talking about how he is retired, and I even stumbled on an article where he was quoted where he said he doesn't feel motivated to play chess anymore(or at least not the same as the one he had years ago).

congrats to Hikaru Nakamura btw!

There are no miracles. Carlsen, firstly, began to age, secondly, he lost motivation and trains little (this is clearly visible, since thanks to the news we follow how he lives and there is not much chess there), this inevitably led to a decrease in sports performance. Now he has two options: to drastically change his lifestyle and return to chess, which will undoubtedly return him to the top without any problems, or continue to live as he is now and be surpassed by young players in the course of a couple of years.

this reminds me of the idea that either you believe that everything is a miracle or nothing is

it's normal in life to have a peak of performance at some point, we don't have to be the best forever and it's totally ok if Carlson decides to pursue other objectives

Some say we'll have the view of the mountain we decide to climb, maybe he had enough of chess

Yes, despite the fact that lately he has been actively playing in many tournaments (and winning most of them), he does not follow a sports regimen (as Nepomniachtchi says and as can be seen in his streams) and the decrease in his motivation is obvious. The only reason why he hasn't been knocked out of first place yet is that he competes mainly against "old" chess players like Neponmichny, So, Caruana, etc. The younger generation in the person of Firuja, Indian grandmasters has not yet said their word, but I think a clear leader will soon stand out among them, this is a matter of a couple of years.

Nakamura displayed an aggressive style in the majority of his games during this tournament. I believe this was one of the key factors that enabled him to reach the top and secure the championship. Conversely, Carlsen experienced some struggles with a few bad games and even had drawn matches that he could have won. Although it wasn't a particularly good run for him, I have faith that he will bounce back stronger in the future.

What website do you guys use to place bets (with BTC) on chess game/tournament results?

Given that the OP has been inactive for some time, I will answer for him. I'm interested in chess, but it's almost impossible to find an acceptable option to bet on it (especially with the use of cryptocurrencies). Personally, I look at the odds (for the sake of evaluating chanses of players) at local fiat bookmakers (most of which are scammers lol).

What are your thoughts on the recent matches on the FIDE World Chess Cup 2023?

I watched the game between Ivanchuk vs Magnus and Magnus won with a score of 2-0 against the legend himself.

During their first game, Magnus was able to grind down the game during the middle game leaving that e6 pawn too strong for Vasyl to hold. On their second game yesterday, Magnus, with the black pieces, managed to get a drawing position (which he believed that he could grind it for a win) which prompted Vasyl to resign.

Fabi was also able to win against Duda and the former mentioned in an interview that the lines he played was inspired from his preparation against Magnus since their match on the 2018 WCC.

Who do you think will win for this year's FIDE World Chess Cup 2023?

A victory over Ivanchuk was expected since Ivanchuk has already left big chess and plays for pleasure, but he was once considered a real competitor to Kasparov and a contender for the crown.
I don't think that Abasov will be a problem for Carlsen, I'm more interested in the second pair - I hope Pragnanadhi wins. Caruana is also a player of the past, I want to see how the new generation replaces the previous one.

I do not think that the victory against Ivanchuk is not expected. Imagine, he has been playing competitively at his age and he also defeated some super GMs in some tournaments. While he is definitely not in his prime, saying that a victory against him was "expected" somehow invalidates his chess prowess.


Actually, the game between Abasov and Carlsen just ended a few minutes ago and Carlsen was able to snatch a victory! It was a tough game but Abasov blundered a pawn in which his position became worse at the end.

It is true- the game between Fabi vs Prag is definitely interesting given that Prag is now a qualifier for the next candidates! He is now the 3rd youngest player to even participate in the candidates, with Boby Fischer and Magnus being 1st and 2nd respectively.

casua or not Ivanchuk is a great player that has been paired with multiple legends like Carlsen and Kasparov. For him to fall in grace and end the tourmament on a pretty low note is nothing to be expected. I’m not saying he should’ve wom the whole event or whatnot. Just hoping he would’ve given us a better performance than what he was able to put out in tve tournament. He’s a capable player, it’s not like he stopped playing chess although I do understand the gap between casual and competitive chess is extremely high.

Hoping that he’d put out better performances in the future. Carlsen will keep doing carlsen things, he’s not even trying anymore besides the fact that he’s pushing for a higher chess rating lol.

Hey guys- what are your thoughts on the game between Abasov and Carlsen?

The match ended a few hours ago and I cannot help but to give Abasov a huge congratulations for reaching this far in this tournament! By far, this is probably his greatest run ever yet, defeating Giri, Vidit, and Peter Svidler on the FIDE World Chess Cup 2023. I really think that he has a bright future ahead of him as these matches skyrocketed his classical rating to around +2700.

Well, Magnus doing Magnus things when he grinded out the game into a draw with the black pieces against the London System opening, thereby securing his spot in the finals!

For Fabi vs Prag, their match ended again with a draw and the tie breaks would happen tomorrow- who do you guys think would win on this match?

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FUN FACT:
FIDE is the only tournament where Magnus has YET to won. Last 2021, he lost to Duda in the semi-finals and I really think that Magnus is hungry in winning this tournament!

Magnus is (so far) the favorite against any chess player. At the moment, Magnus is number 1 in the FIDE rating, and Ivanchuk is 66th. The difference in ratings is 163 points, which implies an 80% chance that Magnus will win, and given that this is not a separate game, the chances are close to 99%. It's just math, no disrespect.

Magnus is obviously Magnus. You will rarely see him actually getting defeated, losing to Duda was also a big exception that we saw, but yes Abasov will be pretty happy on this, playing candidates is in itself a big thing for him. If it would have been before the quarters of Pragg vs Arjun I would have said, Fabi will take it. But Pragg played so well in tie breakers in quarters I doubt it'll be easy to take him down. It'll be a big test of Fabi and even a small mistake can cost him the ticket to finals.

Yup- I understand completely and I apologize if my tone sounded too harsh. I do agree, the difference in rating is really staggering given that we are in the era of chess engines but Magnus can still defeat Super GMs as if they are nothing. I guess what really separates him is his endgame skills and mastery of the game.


As much as I want Prag to win, I do want to see a finals between Fabi vs Magnus; like they are re-creating their 2018 WCC where both Fabi and Magnus drew all of their 14 games with each other. What really made a difference is when they switched the time format from classical to a faster time format (rapid + blitz) where Magnus dominated Fabi.

No problem friend! I understood you. What really sets him apart from other chess players (and sometimes infuriates me) is his endgame play. He likes to play positions that are already theoretically drawable up to an extra 20-30 moves (in the hope of an opponent's mistake) and it must be admitted that this quite often gives him a victory. I understand that this is a top class skill, but from the outside (especially in classical chess) it often looks excruciatingly boring.

In the meantime, Pragnanadha beat Caruana and we will see the final I wanted. Hopefully Pragnanadha will be able to surprise Magnus with something.

My guy Pragg getting into finals with Magnus will be a thing to watch. The draw that happened would have been won by Fabi had he noticed that single pawn E5 move, though that's only me making sense of what I watched at the time and I'm pretty sure Pragg would have taken a countermeasure in order to evade being defeated. I'm rooting for Pragg to win a game against Magnus, but given that he (Magnus) hadn't won the title yet, he's pretty much prepared to take this win and seal the deal.

I can't say that I'm rooting for anyone in particular from the younger generation - I'll be glad if any of the "new wave" finally starts to dominate, but there are two points that will make the situation more pleasant: 1. Carlsen should not be old and close to his peak (in principle, now you can say so about him because his main problem is a decrease in motivation). 2. It should not be Firuja - he was in the status of "the next king" for too long but could not live up to expectations, in some way he looks like Neymar who annoys me. Therefore, Pragnanandha is an ideal option and today I am rooting for him.

Personally i would like to see Praggnanandhaa winning the tournament, he is the youngest player from India to reach the Chess World Cup final and hopefully he win win considering he has defeated Magnus Carlsen when he was just 16, the first two matches went for a draw and tomorrow's match will crown the winner and it is going to be a time control game.

It is interesting that in the match for third place it was also a 1-1 draw, but this draw was effective - at first Abasov won against Caruana, then vice versa. As for tomorrow's games, theoretically, as time control decreases, Carlsen's advantage grows (if I remember correctly, in blitz he has a huge advantage relative to everyone else), but the less time control, the higher the volatility of the results. This leaves some chance for Pragnanadha.

This first match of theirs is a sight to behold. Draw on Move 35 is just something massive for Pragg, but a little impactful for Magnus. He can't afford getting more draws now if he's shooting for a higher rating which he is. Anywho, ratings not considered, while Carlsen is still not in his prime focus considering that he's sick during the entirety of the match I think both will be able to put up a good fight in the process. Pragg is feeling the pressure but he shouldn't let this get to him if he wants to take the top spot. Carlsen, the man who always have to prove himself will as I said in the past, do Magnus Carlsen things. Next match is coming soon and I hope they bring the same level of performance in the board if not better. Future's looking bright for Pragg!

If you are talking about his goal of reaching a rating of 2900, then this is nothing more than a fantasy. According to the results of the FIDE Cup, he added only 3.8 points to his rating and now it is 2838. I'm sure he won't even go over 2850.

As I said, Pragnanadha turned out to be weaker on the faster time control - he lost time and was inaccurate in the endgame (the game he lost with White). It's a pity, but on the other hand, it's good that in classical chess with Carlsen, many can play on equal terms (almost, hehe).

Caruana finished in third place and guaranteed himself a spot in the 2024 Candidates Tournament.

I was watching the whole game and it was pretty even until the last few minutes on the clock. With the black pieces, Magnus was able to snatch the victory against Pragg who blundered a pawn on the last few minutes. I do agree with you- Pragg was struggling to keep his cool when the clock was ticking down. Though that may be the case, Magnus still converted it into a win, playing all the accurate moves and being up the clock until the last moves!

Still, congratulations to Pragg for being able to qualify for the candidates next year- I cannot wait to see him in action against the Super GMs in the candidates.

Also, props to Fabi for winning 3rd place on the match! Abasos also deserves praise as he experienced the tournament of his life- finishing 4th and being able to defeat several GMs who are above his level.

That was much expected, but this time he lost the match against the great Magnus Carlsen and secured ticket to the FIDE candidates tournament. In the tie breaker Magnus Carlsen is dominant and Praggnanandhaa can feel good as he had beaten world's leading Hikaru Nakamura and Fabiano Caruana to reach the finals. A boy who looks like the next door guy making the entire country look his moves is really great.

Many have eyed for Pragg to win this but Magnus is really a goat on this one.

But what's optimistic on this one is that Pragg has a lot of room to improve and he added excitement to what's ahead for his future.

Another played to tune in and wait for his growth and who knows that in other tournaments he'll beat Magnus.

So there you have it- Magnus winning yet again another tournament where he faced Alireza Firouzja in the finals in the Julius Baer Generation Cup!

I was actually aiming for the two to face in this match given the history between them. I also remember that Magnus once said that he would participate the next WCC if Firouzja is going to be his opponent. Though this may not be the WCC, at least it gave us a glimpse of the future and the matches that we may expect soon between them.

Again, a huge congratulations for Magnus for winning this tournament and another huge congratulations for Denis Lazavik as he showed on why he deserved to be on the top 5 of this tournament!

even though we saw Magnus losing some games in the past we can't say he's not a good player
he can see the lines and possibilities like really few other players
a true master

Both players a re good enough, both players are masters so we can say that this is a good matchup as we are all know that they are both master in this game . They have different ways and strategy. And yes you are right that mate magnus losing some of his game but it would not be the reason why he loss in this game so for sure he leveled up his skills and knowledge for this one in order to win this game.

By the way, does anyone follow Magnus's poker career? If so, how is he doing and is he still doing it? YouTube has been recommending me a lot of videos of him lately where he plays poker, not chess (lol), but I’m not sure if this is a recent video. I think that if he continues to do these things in parallel, then his chess rating will not only not reach 2900 as he dreams of, but rather will fall to 2800.

exactly

life comes in weaves
it's really rare to have the consistency to win no stop for decades in a row
normal behavior is win some lose some not letting your losses put you down and stop.

Consistency is really hard with games. That too with chess it is really tough as it is completely mind game. However these top players never let themselves down very easily. Most of the grand masters seems to maintain their consistency. Look at Vishwanathan Anand, much experienced and even now he could have his way and strategy that could make him stand equal against the emerging ones.

So there you have it again- Magnus winning the 2023 SCC Title where he defeated Hikaru with a 13.5 vs 12.5 scores respectively.

During their 5+1 match, Carlsen was able to secure a 5-4 score. On their 3+1 match, Hikaru was able to gain a point advantage where they scored 5-4 respectively. Lastly on the bullet section of 1+1, Carlsen was ahead of just one point with a score of 4.5 vs 3.5.

The rivalry between Magnus and Hikaru is just so fun to watch. Given their competitiveness and speed, they are like the perfect rivals of each other.

What are your thoughts on these guys?

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https://www.chess.com/news/view/2023-speed-chess-championship-final-nakamura-carlsen

yes, consistency is key
I wonder if they play everyday, how many hours per day and if they take days off
knowing their routines and habits would be really interesting
preparation for chess is somehow different than other sports since it's less physical and more mental in some ways, even though it takes a lot of the physical concentrating for so long in something.

yes Shamm
I think chess is also a lot about understanding the attack and defense lines on the board and knowing what is the position you want to arrive at or you want your enemy to be

it's a cool game
even though life is more like poker than like chess, I do enjoy playing it

.chess is like a puzzle cause you need to watch  every move of your opponent in order to analyze the possible sulution of that  play. And before you can solve the puzzle and win the match you need to defense first in order to have the momentum cause once you are not aware of every trap of your opponent theres a chance that you will be loss. So chess is very hard game even though your physical body are only setting on the chair but your mind  takes all tye pressure.

oh, yes, I did some light chess championships with 1 hour games (30 minutes for each) and in the end I was more tired than if I was dancing for 2 hours
a different kind of tired, not so much physical but in a way that your mind makes your body tired of so much time concentrating.

Your getting tires because your brain work so hard  and we are all know that compared to other activities chess is  an headache for some people cause we imagine the pattern and puzzles in that game that you need to  solve in a short period of time cause in tournament there's a timer in Evey move so you need to hurry before the time runs out.
 While you are dancing your body moves all your nerves  so the out come is that your body got exercise which we need that to stay healthy.

What do you think about the fact that Ding Liren does not participate in tournaments after he won the chess crown? There was no news that he had any health problems, and given the fact that Magnus remains the strongest chess player in the world and continues to prove it in tournaments, Ding Liren’s behavior is quite shameful, it seems to me.

exactly!
the combination of deep concentration and not moving from the place you are is really stressful for me
I wouldn't be a really good chess master, probably

That's why we can not say that chess game is an easy one  cause even though we are not using our physical body to compete other players but still we use our mind to construct a good lineup and deference in order to prevent such mistakes that will lead as to defeat, so every move our opponent we must thing the Possible counter attract that our opponent can't counter. But it is hard to do that cause your opponent will do what you do in short both of you using your extraordinary mind.

oh, leave me dancing for 6 hours but don't make me play chess for 2 non-stop
in my opinion it's much harder and more stressful to stay sitting down hyper concentraded into the chess battle
but maybe it's my lack of experience in the area
have been in less than 20 serious games in person
I play online way more often than irl

You may be surprised, but chess requires serious physical preparation. I have a friend who is an international grandmaster, I met him when he did not yet have a FIFA rating and he was an ordinary candidate for master of sports. Even then, he regularly visited the gym to keep himself in good physical shape and he directly said that it was unrealistic to sit at the board for several hours in a row without good preparation. Therefore, it may be paradoxical, but many chess players have excellent athletic shape - for example, Danil Dubov. When I saw his thin face during games, I would never have thought that he had the body of a workout man - he loves horizontal bars.

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What can you say about the next wave of cheating scandals, which this time was started by Kramnik? He raises a very important topic, but unfortunately not always in the format of dialogue but rather categorical statements, so unfortunately many of his important thoughts remained in the shadow of the personal squabbles that he began with Nakamura. Unfortunately, we have absurd realities: everyone understands that there is a problem, but no one wants any solutions, and some (for example, chess.com) are not at all interested in getting rid of cheaters, since then their business will suffer. Some grandmasters have already announced that online chess is dead and it is difficult to disagree with them.

I would expect that too, the mind and the body are one thing in the end.
A fit body will help achieve a peaceful mind and a peaceful mind will help to have the consistensy to remain training and keep up with your fitness goals.

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Do you have more details on this new weave of cheating scandals? haven't heard of it

https://www.youtube.com/@GMHikaru/videos In case you need a lot of details.

https://i.ibb.co/7zsjpn8/hikaru.png

As you can see, the topic is very hype and Nakamura made almost every second video about it. In short, former world champion Vladimir Kramnik conducted his own mathematical studies of the results of chess players (on Title Tuesday) and came to the conclusion that some results were anomalous (suspicion of cheating).

His first idea was very interesting: he analyzed the decisive games of chess players (the result of which directly affected whether they would receive prize money or not) and found that some chess players in such games showed a much better level of play than in others (in the same tournament). He compared everyone under the same conditions, so it is difficult to suspect him of bias. At the moment there is no explanation for such “anomalies”.

His second idea is more debatable: he began to look for long winning streaks and tried to calculate the probability of their occurrence from a mathematical point of view. Well, it seems like when Nakamura plays against a player 300 rating points lower, then the probability of Nakamura winning is 80-85%, which means a streak of 55 wins in a row is very, very unlikely. The nuance here is that Nakamura was famous for his entire career for rating farming (he selected convenient opponents whom he could beat in at least 40 games out of 40, and used other legal tricks), so this accusation led to the fact that everyone began to criticize Kramnik himself and accuse him of paranoia.

Yes, his second idea was very dubious and, unfortunately, its discussion overshadowed the completely rational idea number 1. Now everyone continues to insist on their point of view, but the scandal has subsided a little, the only bad thing is that nothing useful (in terms of fighting cheaters) has been done.

Due to a lack of better Chess-related discussions, I am opening this thread again to discuss the recent events that happened in the last couple of days!

As you all know, Magnus Carlsen has won his FIFTH Rapid World Championship and his SEVENTH Blitz World Championship in which the latter just finished a couple of hours ago.

This feat is nothing but greatness due to the fact that there is a lot of strong players that participated in these matches. I really thought that Artemiev would have won the Blitz section given that he was in the lead the whole tournament but Magnus was able to get a 6 win streak which skyrocketed him to the top. From both the Rapid and the Blitz Championship, Magnus lost only ONCE against MVL in the blitz section.

What are your thoughts on this? I personally think that Magnus is the undisputed GOAT of Chess with these accomplishments. Now that Alireza has qualified for the candidates, will we see Magnus attempt at the World Classical Chess Championship next year?

https://i.postimg.cc/2yt7bb1z/Screen-Shot-2023-12-31-at-12-12-59-AM.png

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Image taken from: https://www.chess.com/news/view/2023-fide-world-rapid-chess-championship-day-3-carlsen-wins

He is definitely one of the best chess players of all time; I recently saw an interview with him and he considers Gary Kasparov as the GOAT but that is offcourse debatable. It would be nice if he would return to the World Championship for classic chess but he will need to participate in the candidates tournament as well and that is unlikely. The winner of that tournament will take on Ding Liren who is the reigning world champion.

To many like me longevity is going to be a massive factor in determing the GOAT status of a chess player. And while Carlsen is definitely a GOAT in his own right, I still don't think he would hold a candle against Kasparov's decades upon decades of being at the top of the leaderboards with no real competition until the boy wonder. Even now he's still showing his GOAT status despite the fact that he retired from playing competitively a long time ago. Goes to show just how awesome the guy is. Carlsen is one of the greats and we cannot understate that. His ability to just fuck the whole board with variations from theories, but as I said earlier, he has to stay in the top of the leaderboard with a 2900 ELO rating for a long-ass amount of time before I even consider him better than Kasparov or something. Cause if we're only going for the basis of who beats who then that means Niemann's better than Carlsen lol.

Ding Liren is one of the most shameful champions I remember. First, cheating tournaments in China (which allowed him to get into the Candidates Tournament), then a complete absence from tournaments after receiving the title. By the way, the other day in some Chinese rapid tournament he disgraced himself by taking only 4th place. It seems that the name of the future champion will be determined in the candidates tournament since it will be less difficult to beat the current champion.

Agreed on that, he is not a great champion at all and most likely we will get another world champion. Carlsen just confirmed he will not participate in the Candidates Tournament as he doesn't like the concept of the world championship. Hopefully the FIDE will change it in the future as would be great if Carlsen participates again.
https://www.chess.com/news/view/magnus-carlsen-confirms-yet-again-he-will-decline-candidates

To be honest, the fact that Magnus would refuse was not a surprise at all.
But you shouldn’t hope that FIDE will supposedly change something so that chess doesn’t stagnate - they can’t even make regulations for their competitions to at least weed out obvious cheaters. And by the way, quite recently the FIDE abolished the norm that did not allow the FIDE president to rule for more than two terms in a row, we are again returning to the times of endless presidents who are not interested in anything just to remain in their place.

That's why it's really easy to pick Carlsen when there's a chess tournament betting, you can never go wrong picking him, maybe it would be not so easy pick if it's a blitz or a bullet chess tournament. I would love to see him play again and reclaim his throne as the World Champion but I have my reservations about him going back, maybe he should consider not going back and giving others the chance to duke it out with Ding.

Have you guys been watching the Freestyle Chess GOAT Challenge 2024? What are your thoughts on this kind of game format?

Personally, I feel like watching this format brings new excitement to chess given that it jumbles the position of the pieces. For example, the queen is placed on a different spot rather than on its original position for a new and exciting gameplay. This eliminates theory lines and preparation as the players will have no clue on the position of the pieces until they see it on the first time during their game.

Been checking the livestreams and I am quite sad for what has happened to Ding Liren.  Currently, Ding is struggling with this kind of setup and format as he is on a five (5) losing streak. Lots of people are sharing their opinions that the next WCC may have a new world champion.

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LIVESTREAM VIDEO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NufmnvYDW0

was coming to ask if you know if we can find the PGNs of the game but then I had the idea to check lichess and here they are
https://lichess.org/broadcast/freestyle-chess-goat-challenge/final-2/x49Zp6dL#games

so if anyone wants to check the games in detail including moves and the possibility to go back and advance slow here's the link, hope it helps

Ding Liren is the champion purely formally due to the fact that Magnus does not want to defend the title, and in fact now this title means nothing.
As for Fischer chess (the so-called chess with random placement of pieces), many believe that it is the future, since even with the help of computers you will never be able to prepare for the game due to the huge number of options for the initial placement of pieces (960 options). Thus, these chess shows the real power of chess thinking and not opening preparation (which is now entirely based on computer analysis). And as you can see, Magnus is still the strongest chess player on the planet.

Two years have passed unnoticed  ;D and we have a new candidate tournament, now 2024.
Any thoughts on the participants? Magnus is not participating, but the other day he gave an interview where, talking about the most worthy, he suggested that it would be fair if Caruana became the next champion.
At the same time, he mentioned his past favorite Firuzja and Abasov. What do you think?

interesting
time flies, things go by really fast
do you have a link for the interview
I think it would be interesting to watch it and I bet many other players could be interested on it

btw, are there any websites where we can bet on chess tournament outcomes?