Bitcoin Forum
July 01, 2024, 05:02:14 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
  Home Help Search Login Register More  
  Show Posts
Pages: « 1 ... 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 [55] 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 ... 247 »
1081  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: March 21, 2014, 07:10:55 PM
I guess the past few responses to me have made it clear that people on this thread don't want to discuss or solve things, but merely make strawmen and misrepresent the reasonable statements of others.
1082  Bitcoin / Mining software (miners) / Re: [ANN] Eloipool - FAST Python3 pool server software - GBT/stratum/dyntarget/proxy on: March 21, 2014, 07:09:29 PM
That sounds even more centralised than mining already is.
1083  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: March 21, 2014, 06:42:17 PM
Why do you speak of it as decided that data storage in the Blockchain constitutes abuse?
It's abuse because you're forcing others to download/store your data against their free choice.
Every full node must download the full blockchain (prunable or not!).
Every full node has consented to download and store financial transactions.
NOT every full node has consented to store anything else.
You need 100% consensus for this, not merely some subset (ie, not miners; not developers) or even a majority.

Furthermore, everyone is free to store data that isn't in the blockchain.
There is nothing to be gained by putting it in the blockchain except that you force it on those who don't want it.
Explain how this is anything but abuse...

Whether you think there are better implementations than the current one is not the problem, but rather that you are making a protocol change for something that miners are, by design, supposed to decide for themselves, and acting autocratically over Bitcoin.
Miners are not supposed to decide protocol changes any more than developers.
Protocol changes, in general, require consensus of the economic majority (or, more practically, "will this person I want to pay accept my forked-blockchain bitcoins?").
1084  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: March 21, 2014, 12:30:27 PM
Maybe I'm wrong, but I am reading your words as follows: Miners will always decide their interests in what type of transactions they wish to mine. Currently, Counterparty uses multisig which are standard transactions. Although we do not wish to add to blockchain bloat, it would appear that as long as we are allowing miners to achieve their economic interests in mining all standard multisig transactions, then the system is working as it should.

Am I understanding your thoughts correctly?
Not exactly. Miners certainly have the ability to decide which transactions they do and don't include, but they have a duty to use that ability to protect the system from abuses.

40 bytes is more than sufficient for all legitimate needs for tying data to a transaction
To me the word "legitimate" is the main problem.
Who can claim the power to say: this data is legitimate and that another is not legitimate. This is called censorship!
The miners have that duty.

The question can not be: What data is legitimate to be stored in the blockchain?
Because this is a subjective question, and that no one can claim to have the answer.

The only question is: Should we allow the storage of data in the blockchain?
These are the same question.

And the answer is: there is no choice, because it is possible to do with multisig transaction.
Bare multisig transactions are not currently used. It's quite possible to turn them off without breaking anything that actually needs multisig-type use.
Furthermore, it's quite possible to determine what multisig usage is actual multisig and which are data store abuses.
So yes, there is a choice...

Too many people were getting the impression that OP_RETURN was a feature, meant to be used. It was never intended as such, only a way to "leave the windows unlocked so we don't need to replace the glass when someone breaks in". That is, to reduce the damage caused by people abusing Bitcoin.

That doesn't make sense to me.
On one hand you're introducing OP_RETURN to stop hackish and inefficient methods to store extra data in the blockchain (like using multisig outputs). On the other hand you reduce OP_RETURN to 40 bytes and say that it was never meant to be actually used – thus forcing people to continue using their hackish solutions.
"Reduce"? No. OP_RETURN was increased from 0 to 40 bytes.
And no, "don't abuse us with OP_RETURN" does not mean we are forcing you to abuse us in other ways.
If we lock the windows, we aren't forcing the burglar to break them. Stop trying to blame the victim.
1085  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: March 21, 2014, 07:33:03 AM
Note the OP_RETURN change by the development team is only a change in default relay policy.
Miners are, as always, expected to make their own policy decisions, and never rely on merely the default Bitcoin Core mining code.
Hopefully as mining returns to being decentralised, we will see less toleration of abusive/spam transactions whether the OP_RETURN variant or otherwise.
Now, if someone has a valid, necessary use case for actually storing hashes with transactions, obviously that's a case miners should seriously consider mining.
In your opinion, which category do you feel XCP falls into?
I haven't looked at XCP in detail yet, so I'll have to defer to others who have.
1086  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: March 21, 2014, 07:23:17 AM
Thanks for engaging with us Luke-Jr. Will you be able to elaborate on how this opt-in basis would work
Merged mining, and/or hopefully soon bitcoin side-chains.

and why reducing OP_RETURN from the proposed 80 bytes was better for bitcoin?
Because:
  • Too many people were getting the impression that OP_RETURN was a feature, meant to be used. It was never intended as such, only a way to "leave the windows unlocked so we don't need to replace the glass when someone breaks in". That is, to reduce the damage caused by people abusing Bitcoin.
  • 40 bytes is more than sufficient for all legitimate needs for tying data to a transaction: you get 32 bytes for a hash, plus 8 bytes for some kind of unique identifier (which really isn't necessary either!).
  • The original 80 byte proposal was intended to be for 512-bit hashes, but this was determined to be unnecessary.

It seems that the 40byte reduction might be the first step in a slippery slope to zero bytes in the future by the bitcoin core devs.
Zero bytes is exactly how it's intended to be.
Note the OP_RETURN change by the development team is only a change in default relay policy.
Miners are, as always, expected to make their own policy decisions, and never rely on merely the default Bitcoin Core mining code.
Hopefully as mining returns to being decentralised, we will see less toleration of abusive/spam transactions whether the OP_RETURN variant or otherwise.
Now, if someone has a valid, necessary use case for actually storing hashes with transactions, obviously that's a case miners should seriously consider mining.
1087  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: March 21, 2014, 06:17:36 AM
Is there a way for the bitcoin protocol to prevent the way XCP is using it, without breaking anything else?
That seems like a very big potential issue if we dont get this resolved...
The miners are supposed to filter out abuses.
Human problems need human solutions.

Not sure i understand right but bitcoin core dev team dont want anyone make new layers over bitcoin blockchain?
The problem isn't new layers, it's forcing things on people against their will.
New layers can be done on an opt-in basis, without polluting the blockchain and forcing non-participants to store the data.
1088  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin 0.9.0 FINAL is available [Changelog] [Download] on: March 21, 2014, 12:14:26 AM
Dont download this, the receive bitcoin address list is missing. And you have to start over.

I was just about to do this upgrade, what exactly is the problem you're referring to?


The receive list as we know it is fucked. This is what it used to look like https://bitbargain.co.uk/s/img/sign_message.png

The new one looks like you have to fill out a note from grandma evertime you want to receive coins,.


Is there any truth to what this user encountered with receive addresses after upgrading?

Any devs want to chime in on this?
The Receive page has been revamped to make it easier to use correctly.
If you're trying to use addresses wrong, it will be slightly less convenient as you go to the menu...
1089  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin 0.9.0 FINAL is available [Changelog] [Download] on: March 20, 2014, 07:46:02 PM
OK, I just installed it and it says beta.
So is it the final release or a beta version?
Bitcoin as a whole has always been beta/experimental.
1090  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [ANN] Spondoolies-Tech launches a new line of ASIC miners - Best W/GH/s ratio on: March 20, 2014, 07:33:41 PM
Changing the default firmware will void warranty of course.
Just wondering, but does anyone know if this is recognised by Israel?
At least in the US, companies are not allowed to void warranties for reasons like this (ie, unless you actually caused the damage).
1091  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin 0.9.0 FINAL is available [Changelog] [Download] on: March 20, 2014, 07:10:19 PM
Is there a way to delete transaction history?
There is really no good way to do this with Bitcoin.
1092  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [6600Th] Eligius: 0% Fee BTC, 105% PPS NMC, No registration, CPPSRB (New Thread) on: March 20, 2014, 12:07:58 AM
BTC0,015
FYI: BTC is always a period as a fractional separator, even in locales where comma is used for fiat.
This is important for Bitcoin to function properly as an international currency.
1093  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin 0.9.0 FINAL is available [Changelog] [Download] on: March 20, 2014, 12:06:10 AM
An Open Letter and Plea to the Bitcoin Core Development Team: https://www.counterparty.co/plea-bitcoin-core-development-team/
Your threat to abuse multisig is no different than a thief telling his victim "leave your windows open for me or I'll break them".
Even in the rare cases where some data storage is needed, 40 bytes is more than enough for reasonable uses.
The only arguments for more, always come down to "we want to force people to store our data against their will".
Stop abusing Bitcoin. Thanks.
1094  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [6600Th] Eligius: 0% Fee BTC, 105% PPS NMC, No registration, CPPSRB (New Thread) on: March 19, 2014, 11:18:00 PM
blockchain.info is probably going to be the next MtGox...
Bold statement. You just speculating or have some specific information?
Mostly speculating. They like to portray themselves as more secure, when they're really not.

How so? With Blockchain.info, I have my private keys. They cannot run away with the money!

You have your private keys, but who else does as well?

Do you check the html/javascript every time you use the site?

I'm not saying they're doing anything nefarious, but what's to stop a rogue employee (or group of employees, or anyone capable of faking an SSL certificate) from modifying the javascript and stealing the private keys?
... or any browser plugin, or any other software on your PC, or github gets compromised, or ...

Did you know that Javascript lets you redefine the Number class such that every constant is always 42?
Things are not always what they seem, even if you use their code-audit plugin...

Where would you suggest I store my BTC thats not on my local computer ?

Is there a way to store BTC on paper ?
Armory supports true paper wallets.
1095  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin 0.9.0 FINAL is available [Changelog] [Download] on: March 19, 2014, 08:07:11 PM
+1 to always keeping an up-to-date backup of your wallet!
1096  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [6600Th] Eligius: 0% Fee BTC, 105% PPS NMC, No registration, CPPSRB (New Thread) on: March 19, 2014, 07:06:44 PM
blockchain.info is probably going to be the next MtGox...
Bold statement. You just speculating or have some specific information?
Mostly speculating. They like to portray themselves as more secure, when they're really not.
1097  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [6600Th] Eligius: 0% Fee BTC, 105% PPS NMC, No registration, CPPSRB (New Thread) on: March 19, 2014, 06:46:24 PM
blockchain.info is probably going to be the next MtGox...
1098  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin 0.9.0 FINAL is available [Changelog] [Download] on: March 19, 2014, 06:42:29 PM
Correction: By default, IPs are only logged when a node connects. This is still a potential concern, but was introduced in 0.7.0, not 0.9.0.
1099  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin 0.9.0 FINAL is available [Changelog] [Download] on: March 19, 2014, 05:07:05 PM
Quote from: btcdrak
Someone should perhaps make note of a security regression in 0.9.0:
IP addresses of your peers are now logged, making your debug.log file valuable to crackers and/or governments.
Is that on by default? I thought IP logging was only enabled if explicitly enabled.
It is always on and cannot be disabled in this release.
I must have missed that. But wasn't there talk of adding ability to control that? Maybe not merged yet?
Not merged yet.
1100  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin 0.9.0 FINAL is available [Changelog] [Download] on: March 19, 2014, 05:01:38 PM
Someone should perhaps make note of a security regression in 0.9.0:
IP addresses of your peers are now logged, making your debug.log file valuable to crackers and/or governments.

Is that on by default? I thought IP logging was only enabled if explicitly enabled.
It is always on and cannot be disabled in this release.
Pages: « 1 ... 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 [55] 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 ... 247 »
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!