It's complicated…  Ok, I'll throw a bone (wanted to post this earlier, but thought it would be wise to buy some of these shares first, so I did  ): If you look percent-wise (percent payout against value of the share) the share is not so bad (1% in a week, that is more then what you get in savings accounts at conventional banks). But again, increasing difficulty requires you to compare the USD value of the bitcoins you used to buy the share to the USD value of the payout. Now, lets hope dishwara gets his shares sold and his rig up and running before difficulty rises again. |
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Hi. What do we call you for short? Your username is going to be hard to remember.
Lets call him "Bobbie". |
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25% -> 0.1315 btc/h -> 0.000065750 btc/h/share (would give about 0.01BTC/week/share)
This means it'll take 100 weeks (~ 2 years) to pay back your investment, provided the IPO price was 1 BTC/share. Is that correct? Cheers, Not quite, only if the share looses 100% of value. The share will keep its value, or might increase or decrease depending on how Dishwara handles his company. Also note that this calculation is based on current difficulty and will drop is difficulty increases ($ price might stay more or less the same, if you do this for getting the BTC it will become less profitable). Just with regards profits to shares. He will be paying all profits to shares, and since he will have some shares himself, then he will receive some profits.
Depends on how profits are defined. Like I said before I'd rather have a company who keeps some money in store as risk control and for expansion (although for that new shares could be issued) then have a company that goes "bankrupt" because a CPU died. |
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Every one is doubting about my credibility & i am trying to prove.
I'm not doubting your credibility, just making sure that this is a sound investment (and not giving you money to work with and find out later that there were better things to invest in). At current difficulty, 4 5870's can able to give 1.5 Ghash/s , thats make ~95(+7hours, since 22/day) hours to find a block (50 coins),
so 50/95= 0.526 btc/hour.
With the 15%, 25%, 60% mentioned earlier this would become: 15% -> 0.0789 btc/h 25% -> 0.1315 btc/h -> 0.000065750 btc/h/share (would give about 0.01BTC/week/share) 60% -> 0.3156 btc/h With the 50/50 option you mentioned: 50% -> 0.263 btc/h 50% -> 0.263 btc/h -> 0.000131500 btc/h/share (= 0.02BTC/week/share) This is based on the 2000 shares you have issued. |
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Hardware of miner.
My hardware will be branded & good quality only.
Graphics cards HD5870 or HD5970 which ever is cheaper & available.
Mother board with 4 pci ex slot, other than Asus mother board.
Processor is core 2 duo or quad core or equivalent & Intel only.
PSU will be cooler master 1000+ W depending on requirement & cost, may be 2*800 W...
Cabinet, i go for my own built as artfortz did, but some little changes to reduce temp & cost.
Will have 4-6 or more cooler master fans as they are cheap & easily available here even though they are noisy.
I also have big hi speed table fans, 400MM consumes around 45W/hour which i use to cool myself will also put in oscillation to cool computer, if computer gets hot. & computer will be running with open cabinet with protections, if needed. so that not even a single drop of water touches computer.
RAM, HDD, keyboard, mouse, monitor(LED- to reduce power consumption) all are same as others use.
Nice specs, but this still doesn't give me a number of how many BTC are expected per hour at current difficulty. As for "monitor/keyboard/mouse", is IMHO not really needed (you could access the system from your current workstation through a network cable), could safe some money on that. Why not a less powerful cpu in stead of more powerfull graphics cards? What OS is it going to run and do you need to buy licenses for that? I able to mine at least 22 hours daily, coz of power cuts in India. But power cuts decreasing.
That is important info to know. |
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That's already a bit better, still not sure though.
How many BTC will the rig collect on a daily basis with current difficulty?
I also want to suggest the following:
Instead of splitting the BTC in 50% and 50% how about the following:
15% of BTC for YOU! (call it your salary, if you want more buy some of your own stock)
25% of BTC for the share holders (I'd rather have a sound company with shares that have some solid basis + they get a bit more then you, because the took a risk by investing in your plans).
60% of BTC stays in the company (pay the electricity bills with it, safe some for depreciation of the hardware and to replace it and to grow the company)
Percentages can vary over time, could be voted over by the share holders.
As for the buying back, that will become more and more expensive for you (less stocks, price will go up, even more if investors know that you will buy back if things don't turn out). The contract linked to the stock is quite clear in this, when things don't turn up you have to sell all the hardware and give the money from that to the share holders (plus if you have the reserves from the 60% above this will give more confidence to the share holders).
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With the current system that we use it is not possible to receive Bitcoins without paying for them. We hold the BTC in Escrow until the buyer pays - then the seller has an option of releasing the coins from Escrow.
Well, I read about Escrow ... So must not worry about "good" guys cause I'll receive sooner or later (within a week) the money transfer. Or I'm wrong? Ok, a little example: 1st step - I sent the IBAN and my name 2nd step - Buyer's bank doesn't validate this information. It asks for BIC of the bank. The validation time is 3 or 4 days, which may trigger the rollback on bitmarket.eu (not sure about the timeout, it may be around 3 days) It seems the seller cannot be able to complete the transaction or I'm still wrong? Can someone provide a suggestions about my questions? How the system of this market-site will refund the bitcoins/euros? I've done a few transactions on bitmarket.eu now, most went fine. Just make sure that you get the info you need to do the transfer, the BIC is one of them (I think you can even lookup the BIC from the IBAN code). I just cancelled a transaction because the buyer didn't respond after about 2 weeks. The transaction wasn't rolled back at that time, I mailed the admins to do it for me. |
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Well, that's why it is an investment. There is always some sort of risk.
Having a well sorted out plan is something different. You can make some expectations based on current difficulty, do some research.
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./bmc.py register
........................................................+++
.......................................................................................+++
Those 2 lines and then it just sits there... how long should I wait? <edit> Now it works. </edit> |
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What's with the retarded thread title BioMike?
I guess it is not appreciated. Restored to original. |
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I'm a bit worried about the long term investment:
1) What will you do when the next difficulty change comes (payout will be less, can you keep up?).
2) When hardware fails, do you have a backup strategy?
3) Over time you need to replace hardware to keep up with the speed, how are you going to fund that? Does that go from your own 50% of the bitcoins or the 50% bitcoins that go to the shareholders?
If you can't keep up with the generation, the shares will become worthless.
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It seems to be down for me right now...
No it's not. How would you have been able to post then? |
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Just went live with this, which was scary for me, I'm terrified of there being some accounting or security bug.
I had the same with Operation Fabulous. Took me a month before I had a proper sleep again. |
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Yes, I was thinking in the same lines this morning (that it would go best through a payment processor).
Did just a quick calculation based on products that are offered on various sites.
On basis of 11 products I get the following:
1 BTC = 1.42EUR or 2.10USD
For some things it is linked to the MtGox market price, for some things I had to guess the price in USD or EUR. But I think this should give an indication.
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I noticed at the same time that this forum was also unreachable (around 10:00 CET).
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Looking a bit at how the thread is going, my comments:
I never said that I wanted to fix the price (I know that is not wise to do), only stabilize it a bit to get the fluctuations out (the merchants decide what the price is, not what the speculators think it should be. I don't think that the immediate selling is an option, if you sell at a high and the price drops directly after that, you get a loss. Looking at market depth and moving averages might help, but if you did that with the drop on Sunday, you will still make a loss.
With a few merchants here. Let me ask the question:
Lets say that the current calculated price would be 2.8USD for the whole month (guaranteed sell at that price, only available for merchants). Would you change your prices for goods to reflect that rate (and adjust them every month to the new price)? No requirement to sell them to the party offering at that price if the BTC markets offer more.
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I think the main difference between your idea and mine is the fact that yours tries to smooth out and control the volatility of the market, whereas mine thrives on it. Merchants should see their investment in bitcoin for exactly what it is; a gamble. Right now, I'd say it's a good gamble, as prices have risen astronomically since it's inception. This can be used as a selling point for more merchants to try it. I think tying it into a peerfinding system like (but not limited to) MtGox to allow them to pull their money out instantly is crucial.
I'm really interested in the proliferation of this kind of technology, and I don't think I'm alone when I say the future viability of bitcoin may depend on these types of systems being in place.
In the end I think most merchants don't want bitcoins. They want their USD or other fiats. Bitcoin is just a way of payment they want to use, not a goal on itself. If prices for bitcoin rise a lot, they can also fall a lot. This would mean they would have to sell at the same time they get the bitcoins, which might not be possible at that time or the price has dropped within the time of start from purchase by the customer and having the bitcoins sold again on the market by the merchant. For expensive sales this could cause quite a loss for the merchant. |
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With the markets being volatile as hell, it is a nightmare for people actually selling goods.
I came up with the following idea, but would like to know how other people think of this.
Some merchants already provide goods against a fixed price, some adjust against the markets quickly.
My focus is on the ones that provide against the fixed price. One could value their goods in USD and see
how many bitcoins they want for that. From that you can calculate a price per bitcoin. If you would average
all these rates (from the different merchants) out, you would IMHO get a more realistic price of how much
a bitcoin would be worth.
If more and more merchants would stick to that calculated price it would reduce its volatility even more and the
exchange markets might move towards that same value.
Every month the price would be recalculated depending on the trades that took place during that last month.
Is this doable and would this work?
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Islam is an ideology that does not believe in the non-aggression principle.
I know quite a bit of Muslims, nice and friendly people to work with. |
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They didn't tell in the news here that there was a fire fight. I had a similar idea as how it went with Sadam Hussain, but I guess you can't compare them in that way.
Well, how does Osama bin Laden got killed? He was shot dead by soldiers. My point was: "Shot dead in fire fight by soldiers" vs. "Executed by soldiers" IMHO second one would be a war crime, first one would be not. |
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