Sissy runs away from debate but still hiding there giving merit to people spouting garbage. Well done whataboutbob just demonstrates what a pathetic weasel you are. Keep hiding sissy you will never debunk one of our central points and you know this. You have been clearly demonstrated to be a pathetic little bitch who cries to red trust when you get put in your rightful place.

Err been hanging with bob too long it seems... poor deranged pathetic asskissing dreg haha  LFC_bitcoin has serious issues read https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5136759.0

So we have conclude clearly there is no abuse of the self moderated thread since the post did not satisfy the rules placed in the initial post. BESIDES which DT members delete replies they just do not like because they provide a clear rebuttal supported by observable instances. So clear double standards evident also.

Nutildah = no accomplishments to tear down. Well..except pushing double standards, willing scam facilitating (by his own definition) and supporting scammers. Those are worth tearing down though

Nutildah = very confused and very sad  have a read... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5190369.20

He goes from screaming that anyone selling their account here is evil and facilitating scams and being a NEM stake holder   TO >>>> trying to sell their account for 0.3btc then begging for 0.02btc loans. Then trying to delete the evidence, then putting the evidence back again after we busted him. LOL poor sad confused pleb.

The reader can check for themselves. Have a read.

This is the only person supporting mosprognoz here. Birds of a feather ...... and all of that.

Mosprognoz needs to learn that you can not just say you busted a couple of other members scamming so he work with scams for his own profit, and then think that other proven scam facilitators can come along and back him up and it is ALL OKAY.

NO.

You won't answer, because you can NOT answer. Those are observable instances that you are trying to conflate with conspiracy theories. That is the sign of mental illness MR scam facilitating (WHERE WE CAN ALL HAVE A VERY NICE PROFIT)

Run away scam facilitator for pay. We have your number now, so you can be sure this will be coming up a few more thousand times LOL Nom nom nom.

No point crying mental illness in the face of observable instances of your willing scam facilitating is there?? You're just another one of our bitches now to be humiliated in public whenever and where ever we get the urge. You, lauda, nutildah, tman,  the scammers dream team. haha

Mosprognoz needs to learn .... that you do not get to scam hunt a few 2 bit scammers then use that as an excuse to facilitate scamming or even set up scams of his own.

ALL DT MEMBERS THAT DO NOT EXCLUDE YOU,NUTILDAH,TMAN, LAUDA  are undeniably dirty turds. Sadly I think that is most of them if not all CORRECT. If you are on DT you have a responsibility to make sure that those guilty of undeniable financially motivated wrong doing are not on default trust and there is a red mark on them or even better a flag.

If you can demonstrate how that is not true, then have a go here dirty scam facilitator. Always willing to debate with you.

That works when they are voicing an opinion they believe in, however, when they are clearly demonstrated to be pushing double standards and only voicing an opinion in that specific context to solidify the double standards  but then a totally different opinion when it is applied to themselves or their friends- then the attack on the person is clearly warranted.

Debate is the only way to thrash out the optimal opinion. Once you have won the debate and debunked all opposing argument then if they continue to proliferate those debunked views that comes under trolling here.

Even then if people have not first attacked you or used bad language in your direction continuously, then if you can stick to making sure your points are clearly and undeniably dominant and crush their spurious nonsense you may not feel the need to get into a swearing/insults/snide pisstaking banter/not banter with them. Does not really matter to the discerning reader, that will pick out the valid points from the mess regardless if they are REALLY interested in finding out the truth or optimal solution.

Sorry but pointing out observable instances of you BOTH being more than happy to work with or facilitate scammers or scamming for your own personal financial gain does NOT equal mental illness.

That is not going to wash. Sorry.  Try another defense or excuse that I can pull apart.

It is not off topic in a mogprosnoz needs to learn not to facilitate scammers thread to point out the ONLY person that seems to be sticking up for your actions is ANOTHER proven willing scam facilitator.

Have you got that moron?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5190369.20

sounds like a couple of people that think they can willingly facilitate scams for pay and still be classed as trustworthy LOL

Yeah if you fight 20 scams you can scam 19 x and be net positive ahhahahaha

via Imgflip Meme Generator


LOL okay fool there is no correlation between DT and being on chipmixer... OH LOOK you are on DT and a chipmixer spammer

How many of the 57 participants are on DT1 or DT2???  

Let's take this in the context of the entire forum.

The is a CLEAR correlation between getting on DT  and being on chipmixer. Get it now DT/CHIPMIXER too.

You spot chipmixer you can pretty much spot Default trust member.. certainly in meta board. That can be seen as their badge.

Give this girl her dirty turd badge she wants some recognition for not achieving anything here ever. haha

Give oioeeioe and robovac their badges ffs anything to shut them up about merits and their continual boasting the worthless garbage.

None of that matters since these points are still clearly true

That would be great if DT were not infested with double standards colluding scammers. Since it undeniably is then your solution is garbage. You only claim it is decentralized and working well because you are a beneficiary. There is no denying it is only centralized to a tiny tiny group who collude together to impose double standards and a 2 tier system.

Look at this latest issue with mosprognoz  DT lol

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5207250.0

Anyone else acting like this would be having red trust for sure. I mean nobody has yet even excluded this scammer supporting, self diagnosed scam parternship seeking rodent because the trust system operates to FORCE collusion. You are the first one to demonstrate you will act against a DT as a DT you are clearly a threat.

Red trust is given tooooooooooo easily to non DT and DT pals and NOT given to DT scammers and scammer supporters.

The best part is when DT members give red trust if you present undeniable financially motivated wrong doing on their part.

Firstly we are not clear on what you are now saying. However.


1. In all of those other cases where there are objectively verifiable transparent rules they are applied to every equally.

2. It could NOT be worse than it is now. The opportunity or ROOM to abuse is almost TOTAL. There is no rule at all. There is no attempt to remove ANY subjectivity. Subjectivity it at MAX settings .. how could it ever be worse?? You could not DEVISE A WORSE SYSTEM>

3. You certainly can leave red trust /negative feedback on individual posts even those that are simply independently verifiable observable instances.

there is no defense possible of the merit system it is cancer for all honest members eventually, although some will certainly gain more than others before the entire board turns into a war zone.

Yes, who can whip up some nice little animated poop gifs for them? don't want them stinking up the place without giving fair warning to honest members as to who they are? They should be clearly recognized at all times as fair warning.

Poop badges who can get some made?

I mean most do have badges already big CHIPMIXER badges. You see chipmixer you see default trust. That is why people want in on default trust. It is default chipmixer too.

Don't worry about running away bob, xtraelv does not worry about it.

Ah the moronic excuse provider and supporter of scammers arrives. This person is found to be also supporting a quite a few other scammers.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5207250.msg53297860#msg53297860

Yes, bob don't worry. Run away from the debate. That is the best plan for you else you will be crushed like xtraelv who runs away from threads although he does like to get humiliated and derided for several days first.

How's mosprognoz ? see you are busted again supporting scammer pushers like him on DT.

I was reading this funny exchange between us that started here... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5170789.msg52938521#msg52938521

One of the dumbest and dirtiest members on this forum. Scammer supporter.

Yes, how strange. I bet lauda will be giving you red soon now too. These are more than likely alts. Xtraelv is also to be found supporting mosprognoz and nutildah rolled in there. The entire bunch are undeniably dirty.

Well, that is kind of the point. Please re-read our post and try to understand it. Merits can NOT be allowed to be ENTIRELY SUBJECTIVE (wide open to abuse) and then at the same time FINANCIALLY REWARD that abuse. Or guess what will happen EVERY TIME.  Yes they will be abused widely and to the max people can get away with. Rendering the entire idea VOID and dangerous.

Your statement is also pretty strange to us anyway. Try having a society with no objectively verifiable transparent rules.. Try driving your car on a road with no transparent rules, try playing a sport with no transparent rules.

Yes, there will be perception bias, that is the purpose of the transparent rules to leave as little room or NO room for that to remain. Else that excuse will be given for simply ensuring MAX possible selfish gain.

I am not clear how also "merit" which is the crux of your "meritocracy " for distributing "tokens" is way off topic. I mean merit is like a token a select 0.01% give it to the others in that 0.011% pals to ensure you they give some back to you , then you use them to place votes for each other on DT. Then you reward each other with chipmixer and the powers to prevent others fair opportunities to compete for your highly paid sig spots and other rev streams.  Anyone mentions it is clearly unfair and broken you use your self given powers to punish them by starving them of merit and giving them red marks to prevent them having sigs or trading.

Why place another token on top of a broken token that already does too much damage and does zero good except to hold back a few bots and account farmers?

If you want another token on top of merit token, then fix the first one or you will just have 2 broken tokens and more incentive to abuse. N

Try to avoid ad hominem attacks. Just focus on the core points and debunk those first.

With merit you can not eliminate the bias, you can only seek to reduce the room for bias to exist. I think also the variance is clearly a huge mistake the 1-50 range is a huge distortion and again far too much room for bias. You want  really 1 merit or 0 merit. At worst 1 or 3. It would be best to add in some other measures like no more than 1% of your allocated merits can go to the same member. We have millions of members it is not to much to ask to spread 1% to at least 100 different members. Better still 0.5% after the first merit is given.

There are LOTs of things you can bring in to reduce the BIAS (room to abuse) and motivation to abuse. At the moment we are like at MAX possible abuse and bias levels. There is no point saying because you will never hit 0 that you leave it at 100% open. If you can get it down to 10% you will notice HUGE HUGE HUGE changes in many aspects here.

There was a member who once tried to define some solid transparent rules or thresholds that should be met by a post for it to claim to be VALUABLE. That debate should have been continued and used as a basis for clear guidelines for giving merit and bring in all the other clearly beneficial changes he has taken time to present.

Or just leave it as the abused and dangerous mess it is now.  Fix that then talk about tokenizing it and what your token will bring to the party. Or perhaps base the token on something now undeniably meaningless and broken to start with. Like objectively verifiable metrics that can not be gamed.

On the basis of this alone, most would have got red trust, then when you add the LATEST behaviors of suggesting a scam open up a new copper account to be able to WORK with his pal lauda so lauda can PROFIT from helping a said scam proliferate across the board....LOL who is this person on DT??

@eddie13 - if these are not reasons to exclude someone from Default trust then you need to ask yourself what is it going to take. This is reason for them to clearly have red trust of course. This is clearly financially motivated wrong doing and clear willingness to work with those he himself has defined as a scammer FOR A NICE PROFIT.

In DT one must not be afraid to punish clear financially motivated wrong doing. There are several sitting in DT that have undeniable instances of clearly financially motivated wrong doing and nobody DARES do anything about it hence DT is a laughing stock and correctly viewed as corrupt.

That could be one way, but is that what a community surrounding and promoting bitcoin needs. You can have 10 GM or VB types that can produce more useful work that trying to educate the entire board into the deeper tech aspects of crypto could really achieve. The greater minds in that area will likely not be relying on the community to education them. You really only need a nice friendly environment where people are encouraged to get along and promote the principles of decentralized trustless designs. You will never get this if people see a 2 tier system. There are many simply ways to roll back the opportunities to game, and incentives to game.

Then if you can get it pretty much air tight and you want to tokenize it okay....but if those can be given financial value directly or indirectly again you are just motivating to exploit the system to increase their tokens.

You need to reach a level where the effort to abuse vs reward ratio  means most won't bother. They will just be happy to post and contribute on a level playing field for whatever rewards are fairly attained by doing so. Then you get the best out of everyone.

Alts are dying dilution death now. It is clear bitcoin is now being seen as a completely separate entity that will not dilute because it is bitcoin and separate from "alts" and people are catching on to that. I think bounties and bounty hunting will soon reach the level of effort not worth reward. Eventually there may be a few big supported alt projects but NOVEL groundbreaking bitcoin crushing design claims are running out.

I mean if the community had one shared goal you would likely find the entire community would operate like the single projects threads do where there is unity and ideas being shared with the sole goal of supporting that project ( of course a few exceptions). It is when person interest for selfish behaviors comes into play you will find the trouble starts.

We need to understand the basics first.

I mean how we even dream that earned merits currently represent a meritocracy.

You would need every persons EVERY contribution (posts) to be measured against a set of transparent criteria (that actually was thrashed to optimally assess value) with absolutely NO bias at all.

LOL yeah good luck with that.

The entire notion of merit is dangerous and MASSIVELY net negative. This is undeniable and no person has even attempted to mount a credible rebuttal to the core points that make it pretty much meaningless and presents a huge threat to free speech AND to create a 2 tier system where financially motivated wrong doing from merit cyclers/DT are rewarded and lesser evils from those with no control of merits/DT are punished. It develops a corrupt and broken environment where the only eventuality is total and utter anarchy.

Remove subjectivity and bias to the max, then ensure every contribution is given equal consideration (very hard) then take away the massive variation  ( linked to bias anyway)
and you could tighten it up perhaps to a level where it has far MORE meaning, Far less damage in terms of crushing free speech and ASSISTING scamming  making for a far more peaceful and optimal environment. Still not perfect and not immune to a measure of abuse.

The trick is obviously to remove room for bias (subjectivity), create less incentive and reward for being bias.  Introducing a token serves ZERO net gain and introduces extra incentive to abuse and game, when you want to reduce this. If you can not make a system that is IMPOSSIBLE to abuse then you want to ensure that you are not placing huge motivation for them to abuse it. People that abuse things obviously measure the COST to abuse vs Reward for abusing. Currently we are at a huge huge huge ratio in favor of abusing. Need to reduce that ratio.

Sadly the current system give HUGE incentives to abuse and leaves it wide open to abuse, then when you are in it makes it very easy to entrench yourself in an abusive position.

We have given NUMEROUS suggestions that could help to fix this up, but they are ignored simply because there is clear bias against us personally and MORE because the people assessing them here GAIN from the subjectivity being LEFT IN SO THEY CAN GAME AND ABUSE IT. Not because any of those suggestions have been debunked at all.

You are free to debunk any points that are made above if you like. We would welcome it.

I will not deny those are some might impressive stats you don't have there. Who are we today bob? longdongsilver or mandingo?

Ah, time for your next injection I think. Ring the buzzer they will be right with you.  If you are worried about cashing in enough btc for some mac book you're not ALL DAT.  People of real substance often have plenty of bank on hand at all time. These old considerations of " should I cash BTC in to get things I want..I remember those from my youth"... in my 20s now BTW.

Only one way to find out, come back to the thread and debate with us bob. Rather than running off crying to red trust...haha

Come on then mr mastadonic testicles .... I'm ready and waiting to be crushed and suffocated ...YIKES that does not sound very pleasant.. then again don't kock it till you try and all that...haha

Oh...hold on...There is some laughter in the back ground here, let me just see what this is....

Oh just rick reading your latest reply..... gotta dash, the poor dude is on the floor holding his ribs rolling around screaming out mr mastadonic penis indeed hahahahahhahahhhaha lololololololol

I agree with this and often you can do it by mistake , you make one post, see another person has replied and naturally just press reply to them with their quote makes it easier to read. Or you have to scan a really large post with lots of replies to lots of people and find the @ x user to locate the reply.

Then again I guess can be abused to keep pushing your thread to the top all of the time.