Which in nutshell means that the genesis investors holding the majority of NXT, will also get the majority of transaction fees coins. In long run most of the transactions will pass through the genesis investors, making them a Visa / PayPal (?) of sorts, and continuing growing their holdings without any additional investment from their side.
Ur logic fails the same way as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeno's_paradoxes#Achilles_and_the_tortoiseThanks for the link, always glad to learn something new here. From what I see, it applies to finite finish values, while NXT (I hope) is planned to be an ever existing currency. So how exactly it applies to NXT forging? |
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How is the pre-sale of a POW mined currency price at more than double current Nxt market price a fair distribution model? I wasn't a stakeholder in Nxt, but I bought right after launch when people were selling 1Mil Nxt for 1BTC. I thought to myself, "I could theoretically buy 1% of this currency, that will ever exist, for 10 BTC" to me that was a great risk but also a great deal.
While you correct about having 1% of the total funds out there, note the Transparent Forging: http://www.thenxtwiki.org/wiki/Transparent_ForgingWhich in nutshell means that the genesis investors holding the majority of NXT, will also get the majority of transaction fees coins. In long run most of the transactions will pass through the genesis investors, making them a Visa / PayPal (?) of sorts, and continuing growing their holdings without any additional investment from their side. Compare this to BTC, where ASIC's arms race forces the miners to continuously invest more of their gains back into ASIC mining, thus distributing the network and making it more secure. By the way, note that such feature (inherently unfair to anyone joining after genesis) was again - added at will of the genesis investors. If a similar feature was put to voting say in MSC protocol, I'm not sure at all it would pass, due to the distribution: http://mastercoin-explorer.com/addressesTo me, Ethereal is a slave of ASIC Miners, with a ridiculously high IPO price and no interest earned like eMu, so who is being fair?
While you may have a point about IPO price or getting back to ASIC dependency, as long as Vitalik and the team do not create artificial shortage by breaking on their own announcement (which exactly what NXT did), a much larger amount of people have a fair chance to join the IPO early, and spread the gains proportionally. And if the IPO is not attractive - well there are other 2nd gen options which are being launched these days or will be launched soon enough. |
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It's been my experience that when people try to ignore or dodge around an issue, and accuse the person questioning them of trolling, that it's because it's the truth.
Sorry to other people reading this discussion as it's tangential to Etherium, but the opportunity arose to confront the person responsible.
It does highlight the importance of sticking with a plan in a funding round once it is announced. NXT has made an enemy where it didn't need to have one, and I will continue to discourage people from investing in it as I feel the situation shows a lack of integrity of the people managing the project. All they had to do was say, "we are closing investment, so if you want to invest you need to do so within 4 hours" (or some reasonable time frame). All they have to do at this point is admit to the real reason they closed investment early.
+1. While the reasons to NXT genesis investors (who made on paper >1000 BTC out of investments of <1BTC) being so zealous are understandable, IMHO it still hurts the NXT in the long run. While it's an interesting technology, chances it will have a hard time competing against MSC, BTS, Ethereum (and other upcoming other 2nd gen platforms) with a much larger initial adoption base and much fairer distribution model, bringing similar features and capabilities into the play. |
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Are there any plans to implement a voting system, in order to allow the community to express their opinion on protocol or client changes?
AFAIK DAC's should allow this.
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If someone is willing to write step by step instructions for this, I'd be happy to add it to the documentation as an alternative to using bitcoind.
+1, I want to try and build a service for XCP, and doing it with block.io will be really helpful. |
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How it possible to get some test XCP?
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The drawback is that they will have no enough money to hire more developers and provide bounties. The advantage is that the community is more willing to contribute to this project as long as they get some XCP. It's like open-source community project vs. private company project.
That my point exactly, where from these XCP's are going to be paid off? If the developers are not allocating some development fund (and apparently they not), the only source for these XCP would be the community, which may actually prefer hoarding the coins, rather then donating them for the cause. Any thoughts from developers about this potential issue? |
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is it known how long the IOU will last?
AFAIK until the end of January (this date is set in source code, so no NXT scenario here...). |
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I did escrow trades through maxmint in past, can vouch that he is a trust-able person. |
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I prefer burning my coins to helping a few individual rich. Many ppl must have felt the same, 70 coins burnt a day on avg speaks for itself. This is the most honest IPO coin so far.
I concur. It's about time there would be an even-distribution project, looking to advance crypto currency in general, rather then enriching some individuals overnight. Still, would be great to hear the community opinion about bounties. |
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The drawback is that they will have no enough money to hire more developers and provide bounties. The advantage is that the community is more willing to contribute to this project as long as they get some XCP. It's like open-source community project vs. private company project.
That my point exactly, where from these XCP's are going to be paid off? If the developers are not allocating some development fund (and apparently they not), the only source for these XCP would be the community, which may actually prefer hoarding the coins, rather then donating them for the cause. |
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Question, once we done burning, how exactly the founding developers will be motivated for keeping up with the work?
Will there be any bounties system set, and how it's going to be sponsored?
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Question, will XCP rely on it's internal exchange, or it can benefit from a centralized external exchange?
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NXT stopped fund raising adruptly much earlier than the closing date he announced and just collected 21 BTC. Counterparty closing date is hardcoded in the source code, and there're more than 600 BTC burnt in less than half of the duration. It can be safe to say, there're much more IPO investors of XCP than that of NXT.
From the speculating perspective, this will reduce the possibility of manipulation. So it's less possible to see the price of XCP shooting to 5000x in weeks like NXT. Hopefully we can see the price grow slowly and steady following the adaption of the exchange.
I much prefer that personally, history shows that most people (other then get rich quick types) prefer gradual increase in value, without manipulated rapid contractions causing panic buys and sells (though I'm not sure how this applies to crypto, if at all). |
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Awesome, thanks for validating my feeling. This will need to be featured in promotional materials (which probably will be needed once the burn is over). I do wonder about top 10 addresses, these guys really created and moved so many accounts manually? |
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Pay more, get more and everyone can buy. Is there any more fair way to distribute? Maybe you mean more even distributed?
I mean to avoid NXT situation, that moved a great concept into speculators hands. |
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By the way, with this rate of things we pass 1M$ of market cap very soon.
I just hope the distribution is fair enough (though I presume that scripting multiple transfers will be simple enough).
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A better argument against XCP, which also applies to cryptocoins in general, is that it won't ever find a large enough market.
As someone who lives in the US, I have yet to encounter a problem that bitcoin could solve for me. I don't want to buy illegal drugs. I don't want to throw money away slowly at 1% house edge by flipping coins. As of the beginning of this year SatoshiDICE and SilkRoad comprised something like 80% of the bitcoin economy. The other 20% was price speculation. Being able to buy regular stuff with bitcoins is a gimmick.
Now I am not saying bitcoin doesn't have its uses for people who live under corrupt regimes with very inflationary currencies. I'm sure it does. Money remittance is a pretty large market that bitcoin could solve, as we have seen from China's discovery of bitcoin. But that's just 1 special case.
Ethereum, XCP, MSC, and all the wonderful technology it offers like distributed exchange, financial derivatives, Turing-complete computation, etc. Will it really find a market? I personally think it's incredible that the technology exists and feel like I'm living in the future, but who will actually use these things? You can bet with very low edge already on betfair. If you want to trade financial instruments with low latency you can't beat a centralized exchange setup. People might use bitcoins to get around capital regulations or taxation, but do they really want to trade financial derivatives or compute things in a convoluted fashion? Will enough people even understand these features to be able to use them?
I hope I just lack imagination though...I hope other people smarter than me will create new markets with this technology.
Not to offend, but I get a dejavu from 2011  . Let's see how deep it goes. |
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so when is this downtrend turning around?
Seems it has stopped on 0.1 bottom. |
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Alright guys since you're speculating about Ethereum, I figured I'd drop by and say hi. I'm one of the core developers. Go ahead and post your questions here
I would speculate from the at least 3-5 people currently hacking on GitHub (and the rumoured current staffing of 5-20 people), that they already have a massive amount of funding running into the millions of dollars.
This gives a Ripple de-javu. These millions have to be paid off some way, any chance it will be 90% for Eth. and 10% for the community? |
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