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I will go 500 BTC for the lot.
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BFL also made fools of themselves by trolling them.
Frankly, the only trolling I see is you stickying that post and putting that title on it. As for recommending purchasing fpgas at this point, particularly ones that cant be traded up for asics, and to someone who pays virtually nothing for his electricity.. well Im not (yet) a shareholder, but I would hope a CEO knows when to ignore advice from a shareholder. We definitly will not be purchasing any FPGA without an exit strategy (read: why we only have BFL's) |
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They give you 100% dollar credit, but ONLY if you are paying cash for 50% of the price.
IE, you want to buy a BFL SC mini-rig.....cost is 30,000.....you MUST pay 15,000 in cash, the other half can be an old mini-rig. You CANNOT trade in 2 mini-rigs for the entire price. Cash must make up 50% of the sale.
Not quite; it is actually worse (for us) than you have described. If you want to buy an SC mini-rig (cost $30k) you have to PAY $30k in cash, then you can trade in 2 old mini-rigs ($15k apiece trade-in value) and they send you a 2nd SC mini-rig. If you want to trade-in 2 Singles for a $1300 Single SC, you first have to BUY a $1300 Single SC, then send in your 2 old Singles, then BFL sends you a 2nd Single SC. Here's a quote from Jody. Notice that you have to BUY $xxx of product, and only then can you trade in $xxx of your old stuff for the equivalent of $xxx of new. In essence, you send $30k plus 2 old minirigs and they send you 2 new minirigs in return. I understand how you are confused. This whole thing has not been explained in detail. If it were a straight trade of old equipment for new our business would fold in a week. Here's how it works: if you buy $599 worth of BFL product--say 4 Jalapenos, you are eligible to send in a Single to exchange for 4 more Jalapenos. You must buy something to be eligible to trade something of equal value. And you don't have to send in your old equipment when you pay for the new--you send it in when you are notified that your ASIC equipment is ready to ship. Does this make sense to you?
Jody ahhhhh, they are basically forcing more product into the channel. I see. |
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I would normally not post someones PM to me, but I feel like I don't owe loyalty to the OP, and this just seems fishy:
Please note that I already have 2 regular mini rigs, both at 25.2 gigahashes. Previous deliveries took over 2-6 weeks after date of purchase. ...sniped the rest...
I got suspicious somewhere around the claim of already having 2 mini-rigs.
Discuss.
Wow. This has to be the worst scam attempt since ...  LMFAO |
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They don't do free trades. You have to spend more money.
I don't know if you are referring to me or not, but I don't think I used the term "free trades." Or at least I didn't mean to. But they are offering 100% dollar guarantee buy-back. Either way, he could not spend another dollar and get X times the processing power, or he could spend dollars and get X + Y times the processing power, and then offer X + Y times the processing power to his bondholders for the cost of Y to upgrade. You are wrong. They give you 100% dollar credit, but ONLY if you are paying cash for 50% of the price. IE, you want to buy a BFL SC mini-rig.....cost is 30,000.....you MUST pay 15,000 in cash, the other half can be an old mini-rig. You CANNOT trade in 2 mini-rigs for the entire price. Cash must make up 50% of the sale. |
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OK shareholders......I think P4man is correct, and we need to decide sooner rather than later how we want to proceed.
I have created a motion on GLBSE to issue and additional 6,000 shares, the proceeds of which will be used to place an order for a BFL SC mini-rig.
I will take feedback here, and you can vote on GLBSE.
Currently BTCMC represents .3% of the mining network (1/300th). If we purchase a SC mini-rig, the network capacity could leap to 300 TH/s (25x) before our share of the block reward would go down.
I own 783 shares, I've voted no. What would be your preferred route? See four posts up. Enterpoint now, 28nm later, and BFL has probably lied about their SC minirig and its closer to 500gh for $60k so 22nm FPGAs should start rolling out about the time they come out with their SC gear. I have not seen the exact specs on Enterpoint.....what are they offering? |
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Ok, so here's update as of GLBSETime 12:45, Tue Jun 19: | No | Asset | Total Shares | 5 day average price | Market Capitalization | % | | 1 | GIGAMINING | 40000 | 1.087 | 43480 | 27.16% | | 2 | BITBOND | 44138 | 0.561 | 24761 | 15.47% | | 3 | TYGRR.BOND-P | 18737 | 1.056 | 19786 | 12.36% | | 4 | ZIP.A | 9930 | 1.174 | 11658 | 7.28% | | 5 | YABMC | 54278 | 0.214 | 11615 | 7.26% | | 6 | PPT.DIV | 9000 | 0.928 | 8352 | 5.22% | | 7 | PUREMINING | 15000 | 0.384 | 5760 | 3.60% | | 8 | FOO.PPPPT | 3976 | 1.066 | 4238 | 2.65% | | 9 | MOVETO.FUND | 4209 | 0.999 | 4205 | 2.63% | | 10 | COGNITIVE | 6400 | 0.61 | 3904 | 2.44% | | 11 | PPT.A | 3000 | 1.23 | 3690 | 2.31% | | 12 | PPT.B | 3000 | 1.166 | 3498 | 2.19% | | 13 | TYGRR.BOND-B | 32800 | 0.101 | 3313 | 2.07% | | 14 | PPT.C | 3000 | 1.103 | 3309 | 2.07% | | 15 | PPT.D | 2500 | 1.054 | 2635 | 1.65% | | 16 | TEEK.B | 1999 | 1.047 | 2093 | 1.31% | | 17 | TYGRR.BOT | 2114 | 0.975 | 2061 | 1.29% | | 18 | BTC-MINING | 1933 | 0.894 | 1728 | 1.08% | | 19 | PPT | 36 | 0 | 0 | 0.00% | | 20 | PPT.E | 0 | 1.257 | 0 | 0.00% |
MU is again out of top 20 traded, MOVETO.FUND is in instead. Total market capitalization of these top 20 most traded assets is 160086. Mining: 57.00% Pirate: 28.43% Other: 14.57% Why are you not including BTCMC? Our market cap is easily in the top 10....... |
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OK shareholders......I think P4man is correct, and we need to decide sooner rather than later how we want to proceed.
I have created a motion on GLBSE to issue and additional 6,000 shares, the proceeds of which will be used to place an order for a BFL SC mini-rig.
I will take feedback here, and you can vote on GLBSE.
Currently BTCMC represents .3% of the mining network (1/300th). If we purchase a SC mini-rig, the network capacity could leap to 300 TH/s (25x) before our share of the block reward would go down.
I own 783 shares, I've voted no. What would be your preferred route? |
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I would normally not post someones PM to me, but I feel like I don't owe loyalty to the OP, and this just seems fishy:
Please note that I already have 2 regular mini rigs, both at 25.2 gigahashes. Previous deliveries took over 2-6 weeks after date of purchase.
Hardware did what it was meant to do and delivered about 25 gigahashes.
If it were up to me I'd say it is a pretty low risk loan, I've done some mini-loans out to people before.
Not too sure on the difficulty rating by that time.
My assumptions are that I should be able to pay back the loan within a year, but if the lender wants more money out of the deal then a longer time span should be stated.
Please note that I am very easy to talk to and negotiate with, I actually consider this as a small, low risk contract and I should be able to fulfill it easily.
Get back to me asap.
I got suspicious somewhere around the claim of already having 2 mini-rigs.
Discuss.
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OK shareholders......I think P4man is correct, and we need to decide sooner rather than later how we want to proceed.
I have created a motion on GLBSE to issue and additional 6,000 shares, the proceeds of which will be used to place an order for a BFL SC mini-rig.
I will take feedback here, and you can vote on GLBSE.
Currently BTCMC represents .3% of the mining network (1/300th). If we purchase a SC mini-rig, the network capacity could leap to 300 TH/s (25x) before our share of the block reward would go down.
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to asic or not to asic is basically the only important question for a mining operation right now, at least a mining operatoin which owns a substantial amount of BFL fpgas.
I see only two sensible approaches. One is betting the bank on getting your asic hardware sooner than most, and thus preorder as soon as you can, keep your fpgas and trade them in for asics when you can, and there is a slight chance of breaking even or even a nice profit. The window of opportunity will be short, and if BFL gives priority to pre orders that do not trade in FPGAs, you are most likely screwed.
The other approach is selling your FPGAs *asap* to someone who intends to make that bet.
Buying shares in your company now, is betting you as CEO will bet right. The rest is of little importance by comparison. Therefore, may I make a suggestion? Split the company in to gpus and fpgas. I might be tempted to buy shares in a gpu only operation with low electricity cost. Its a gamble, but if these asics get delayed and people start selling gpus in anticipation of asics and reward halving, there might be some good months ahead. Its a risk I would consider.
The FPGA/ASIC stuff, I dont want to touch that with a 10 foot pole.
Interesting thoughts.....I will definitly take it into consideration. There is a lot to think about in the coming months......I suppose rather than a split, I could put forth a motion to the shareholders to float another 5,000 shares for the purpose of purchasing a 1 TH/s rig and ensure we are viable going forward. |
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I'll buy one for $650
That'll net you a cool $17 profit.
I will take all the remaining singles at $651 |
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Aha, yes that announcement really did send prices tumbling off a cliff. I saw in another thread someone offering $650. Far cry from the 150, 160, 175, 190+BTCTC that was being asked and paid just a few weeks ago.
So what does everyone else think? What's the true market value of a used Single these days?
I think it is a slight over-reaction at the moment. Even an optimistic assessment puts the ASICS at the end of the year, AT BEST. That leaves 5 months to mine with the single, and a salvage value of say $300 at the end of the timeline. If prices panic much further, smart money should buy. |
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Make sense?
Yes, actually it does make sense. Thanks for 'holding my hand' through that....lol I just don't know enough about both securities (or common practices on the GLBSE) to distinguish between some that are being offered currently. Cheers. Definitly takes some time to evaluate it all! |
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Another win by BFL.
They could have completely screwed their customers and not offer any trade in so value of single with ASIC coming = maybe $10.
Now this basically ensures the value of the single is at least $300 which is excellent for some who are half way through paying off the unit and want to sell right now and stop gambling.
Is your calculator broken? Since the trade in value is only 50% not 1:1 so 2 Singles cannot be swapped for a SC single but 1 single + 700 USD = one new SC single ? Maybe my head is broken  The value of an old Single on the secondary market should continue to hover close to it's $599 purchase price minus shipping and any convenience costs of exchange with whoever wants to buy it in preparation to pick up his SC. When we receive it towards the purchase of an SC, it will be accepted at it's full $599 value. This. It will be like selling giftcards......people are willing to pay close to the value, but demand a discount to facilitate the exchange. The old hardware might even fetch a small premium over retail for a while, since you can mine on the old hardware until the new hardware is ready to ship. But of course as difficulty rises this benefit will diminish. very interesting take.....I could completely see that happening. |
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As I understand, no matter how many fpga's you send back to BFL, you have to place an asic order that is 2x bigger than the value of your fpgas. IOW, you have to double your bet. Its not an easy decision to make, certainly not at this point with so many unknowns, but at least my willingness to invest in your company would depend very much on your perspective on spending money on ASICs.
Absolutely.... I understand the trade-in policy. I am viewing the singles as a stop-gap for the moment, that earn a nice yield while we wait and see what happens with ASICS. Once the dust settles and there is more clarity, then the decision on trading up can be made depending on the ROI projections at that point. I am comitted to mining, and the shareholders. |
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[
And of course all the MOBOs, PSUs, CPUs, etc that run all that equipment.
You can assign your own salvage values, but $20,000 seems VERY conservative to me.
I think people will make widely different estimates of what that hardware will be worth in 6 months, Im sure some will think pre 7xxx GPUs will be worth only very little as gpu farms sell out left and right, and its clear as mud how popular fpga singles will become to use as "credit" towards an asic purchase, but FWIW, your estimate seems relatively accurate to me. Electricity is amazingly cheap. 2 of our locations provide free power, and we have over 16,000 MH/s installed in those 2 locations. The other 2 locations have consumption based pricing, and the incremental cost per KWh is $.031. Thats low indeed  Have you any thoughts on what you would do if/when difficulty increases by 5x or 10x? Do you intend to keep mining with those gpus as long as its marginally profitable, or sell ? Any thoughts on getting in to asics? ya, the GPU's will be mining as long as there is any profitability, then sold off to invest elsewhere. Depending on if and when the BFL asics become a reality, those 2 dozen singles will go a long way towards getting a Terahash machine. That is probably the fall-back plan as of now. |
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Nice to see you selling shares, rather than bonds.
However, in order to make an assessment, it would be good if you gave some more info. Specifically Id like to hear about what hardware you are running (gpu or fgpa and which kind) and how low your electricity cost really is.
Here is a breakdown of our hardware: 7970 22 5970 16 6950 7 6970 2 6870 1 6870X2 4 5850 5 5870 3 BFL singles 23 And of course all the MOBOs, PSUs, CPUs, etc that run all that equipment. You can assign your own salvage values, but $20,000 seems VERY conservative to me. Electricity is amazingly cheap. 2 of our locations provide free power, and we have over 16,000 MH/s installed in those 2 locations. The other 2 locations have consumption based pricing, and the incremental cost per KWh is $.031. |
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