Are the days of truly ludicrous returns in a short period of time over? It'll still be ludicrous compared to everything else, but turning $100 in $100 million was always going to be a one time deal and whoever managed that fully deserves it. I'll bet the number of people who have actually done that could fit on one bus, a small one.

Headline numbers are catchy. They're also extreme outliers. Same goes for all time highs and lows. Everyone laments not selling or not buying at those moments. In reality no more than a handful do it and they have no idea they did time it right until many years later.

The only other thing I'll say is be mindful of going down the shitcoin route expecting to find the 'Bitcoin killer'. There have been thousands of them. Bitcoin has not been killed as far as I can tell. There is of course money to be made there and a whole lot to be lost too.

https://www.cryptoglobe.com/latest/2020/10/singapores-largest-bank-launches-its-own-crypto-exchange/

SE Asia's largest bank by assets was about to launch an exchange solely for institutions and market makers.

Then they pulled the plug as it wasn't ready. One to watch if they plug it back in at any point.

I think they've got their wording wrong.

It should read - Man penalised for violating anti money laundering laws via mixing.

He explicitly set it up solely to aid the movement of drug money. That's nothing like a bog standard mixer being descended on out of nowhere for handling one random reprobate's funds.

Isn't Okex's 'OTC' section where a ton of money laundering takes place? It's often mentioned when hacked funds are moving around. Probably them. And if the authorities decide to look a little closer at that then perhaps coin owners will have more to worry about while they have their pet detained.

The thing is almost all of the time this doesn't matter. If you get a junk micro SD card then you simply send it back. Amazon aren't going to change squat to protect a few people stung by this.

I don't think there's a way of having a balanced opinion on this. Any longstanding Bitcoin fan is so far gone all objectivity is out the window. Someone from the opposite end of the spectrum is so uneducated their opinion is worthless.

With a rising price everyone's a hero. We'll see what they say when it's on its way back to nowheresville again.

To Amazon and every retailer other than the manufacturer it's just another bit of tech that flies out the door. They should be doing things like this, they certainly won't as it's not their problem.

Mixing stuff like this with standard retail policies is a dangerous combination but I can't see them ever taking special measures.

You learn summat every day. In that case I wonder why Coinbase haven't pursued something similar. And I wonder how much more than $100 million Bitgo have under their control.

Would anyone in their right mind use a totally unknown P2P, not OTC as they have a verifiable broker in the middle, option via a random messaging service? Guess so. If they do then I don't have any sympathy for them. We now have options wherever we look. This ain't 2011 any more.

No custodian is insured as far as I know. No insurer will do it. Certain places like Coinbase have insurance but only for their hot wallets.

That being the case the only insurance you can get is buying somewhere that already knows how to store coins securely.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-10-22/frozen-okex-crypto-traders-can-cash-out-but-would-pay-a-price

Every exchange's solution to their problems - 'token it'.

Here's an ominous quote from the article - “My guess is if they were expecting withdrawals to resume tomorrow, they’d tell us,” said Sam Bankman-Fried, Alameda’s chief executive officer, adding that he believes no funds have been moved or stolen. “There’s not been a lot of guidance on what to expect. I think sentiment is weeks to months when withdrawals will open up.”

But then again what does he know?

I absolutely think it's possible. Just because something's been around for a long time does not mean it's run in a competent manner and he's reportedly done plenty of sketchy things in the past.

It looks like he's been arrested regarding matters not directly pertaining to Okex. One place reported it's due to this - https://www.coindesk.com/okcoin-founder-star-xu-seeks-to-acquire-public-firm-crypto-60-million

The fact that he's a walking private key is very inconvenient for all Okex users, but not the reason he got plucked from the street.

Ooh. That's a big question.

What I wonder about all of these companies is whether they're patient enough and whether they've taken the time to understand or anticipate the course it's going to take. I don't really think anyone knows still and if they try to mould their interpretation into something they're familiar with it simply won't work and will wander off into a dead end.

I absolutely don't believe they can kill it off. It's a big old world and in large swathes of it those companies are nowhere. Where they are prevalent the disenchantment with conventional finance is not going to shrink.

My guess is anyone who sets off thinking it's going to become a means of payment any time soon is going to to fail. Human nature doesn't buy something to buy something. It also doesn't want to spend what it thinks may be worth more tomorrow.

With that out the window I'm not really sure what's left for them beyond facilitating buying, selling and storing. Paypal at least have kicked off with that and kept quieter about merchant stuff.

Maybe that's enough but I still think many of them are stuck in an intranet mind set and will remain so right up until they throw in the towel.

This will definitely be a factor that didn't exist before and we'd be naive to discount it. Company money arriving now may well feel like a total genius for the next 12-18 months. What happens after is the decider. I see no reason why most wouldn't be headless chickens just like everyone else.

At least most will have arrived via OTC and will depart the same way even if it does add up overall.

This is a weird trend I didn't see coming and many of the late arrivals, who'll be the majority, may meet a rapid and sticky end.

At least it would be competition of a sort? Coinbase have been looking like they were well on their way to being a standalone behemoth which isn't healthy either. Having said that I would basically prefer it to be anyone other than Paypal.

We also have no idea as to the depth of their commitment to this. Coinbase came out of this from nothing. Paypal are the direct opposite. It could be something they decide may never work for them after less time than we expect. Many others have reached the same conclusion, usually with outrageous prematurity.

If I got started now I think I'd probably be a number two. You have to become the darling of multiple established posters to really rocket your way up the ranks and I'm steady rather than explosive.

It's fun to see someone arrive who does instantly take off. Usually they demonstrate deep seated knowledge that isn't often on display here that reminds others of olden times. I wonder whether they bided their time before making their debut or discovered this place randomly after a lengthy period doing their own thing and dove straight in.

I wonder if I would have changed my approach had the merit system been in place when I turned up. Before it was just a case of sticking around for long enough. I'm probably too lazy to make ranking up an aim I devoted real effort to.

Money has been basically unchanged for generations. You don't introduce a completely new form of it overnight. It took long enough for the internet and mobile phones to get going and they were basically all upside.

In some ways crypto has moved far further than I expected by now. Seeing the headlines we see these days would've seemed like flat out dreamland when I first got going. Even so it's going to be a long road and there are phases to come that we may not even have conceived of.

I'm very interested to see how they develop this.

Is this the first step on a journey to much deeper and more integrated usability or are they going to attempt to 'Paypalise' Bitcoin?

History tells us very few of these operations have the vision to work to its strengths rather than trying to bend it, having it snap and twat them in the face and then slinking away in quiet disgust.

Hopefully there are enough people involved in this who've been watching past experiments closely. I'll believe it when I see it. Then again this may be exactly what most of the world actually wants. They're a bit stuck if they learn more and decide to move further though.

The current financial system ain't going anywhere so it has no choice but to co exist. Co existing is the same as parallel anyway innit?

As long as there are governments there'll be fiat and they will pay out in it and demand tax in it. You may be able to step out of parts of the old system but you'd need to live in a properly radical jurisdiction yet to exist to fully shed it.

Shame Circle didn't take the actual running of the exchange seriously at any point. I'm long past using it but I did pay attention to their tenure and amazingly absolutely nothing had changed, and then they dropped this on their users.

If I were a VC type my taps would be turned off if they came a begging. They didn't have much cred before, then they buried it completely.