hash is definitely being delivered and not by bfl.
Than by who? I thought the only other person delivering hashrate was BitFury, and I have a hard time seeing them delivering 100+ TH/s in a matter of a few weeks. No one else has ever rolled out that much hashrate that quickly. avalon chips and groupbuy hardware comming online from assembly I would believe it were bfl if they had their jalapeno line caught up to current orders and singles caught up to 2013 but they don't and that is where the bulk of their preorder hashrate lies...im just talking out of my ass using opinion at this point....but so are they - until they can give us the qty of units shipped per day (they have no incentive to) we are all simply speculating where its comming from at this point. I remember the avalon site saying that they had been extorted for hashing hardware in Asia maybe that could be it? Bitfury chips have contributed at least 120TH/s in over the last month. Probably quite a bit more. |
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[ANN] Tin foil group buy! 0.2 BTC per roll.  |
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Any vehicle that puts the risk reward proportions back the way the rest of the world works is a good thing. I am trying to think of another market where customers purchasing a product (no equity, royalties or future considerations are received just the product) also fund the start up of the business, can anyone think of one?
Drugs. The price of equity in drug dealers tends towards the volatile.  |
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It'll work forever, you just won't make back your investment that's all.
I don't understand that, it will keep making coins forever.. but I wont get my investment back? Think of it just like a gold mine. First you want to make sure there is more gold in the mine than what you paid. If the price of gold is $1400 an ounce, and you paid $140,000 for the mine, it had better produce at least 100 ounces of gold. So you retain a geologist to estimate how many ounces of gold are in the mine. If it is less than 100 ounces then you should not buy the mine. Now you can keep digging, but after you mine out the rich veins (low difficulty) you will get less and less out of a days work. After a while, it will cost you more to dig than you get back from selling any gold you manage to find. Some people might say "but gold will rise in price and you will make money that way!". If that were true, then you should just buy gold. That way you don't have to bother digging for it, you know exactly how much you will have, and you will pay a cheaper price for it than overpaying for a gold mine. Many years back, the gold companies knew they could use leeching techniques to extract minute quantities of gold from huge piles of dirt. Back then it was abandoned as too expensive. That is right, they abandoned leeching gold it because it was not profitable. That was the correct decision at that point in time, even though later gold rose enough in price to make it profitable again. The reason they stopped doing it is because the people in charge of mining companies took courses in history: In 1845 aluminum was more expensive per pound than both gold and platinum. A bar of it was even displayed at the Paris Exhibition in 1855. This was because it was very expensive to separate out into a pure metal. In 1886 however, a new process for separating aluminum metal was discovered (we use the same process today) and now aluminum is $0.82 per pound. If anyone had invested in the old method of producing aluminum they would have lost their shirts. The gold is still there and technically the mining company still owns it. They can extract it whenever they want to, and they do whenever it is profitable to do so. Setting up a business that depends on a commodity rising in value in order to profit is just gambling. |
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It'll work forever, you just won't make back your investment that's all.
I don't understand that, it will keep making coins forever.. but I wont get my investment back? Think of it just like a gold mine. First you want to make sure there is more gold in the mine than what you paid. If the price of gold is $1400 an ounce, and you paid $140,000 for the mine, it had better produce at least 100 ounces of gold. So you retain a geologist to estimate how many ounces of gold are in the mine. If it is less than 100 ounces then you should not buy the mine. Now you can keep digging, but after you mine out the rich veins (low difficulty) you will get less and less out of a days work. After a while, it will cost you more to dig than you get back from selling any gold you manage to find. Some people might say "but gold will rise in price and you will make money that way!". If that were true, then you should just buy gold. That way you don't have to bother digging for it, you know exactly how much you will have, and you will pay a cheaper price for it than overpaying for a gold mine. |
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One sad component of haters and baiters is the self-righteousness. They see themselves as some sort of holy warriors protecting the great unwashed from evil-doers. As if they are doing any service for anyone but themselves. The real joke is that filling page after page and thread after thread with regurgitated, gibbering bile makes them look like raving lunatics. They are not saving anyone. They are not helping anyone. The only opinion anyone has about their posts is that it is useless, innane clutter and that these forums would be better without it. The imagined power that comes with claiming that "90% of people agree with what I am posting" must surely be intoxicating, but in reality, no one cares. It isn't real.
There is no one who needs their brand of "saving", there are no crusades to win other than imagined ones, and their hate makes them a loser by default.
There are certainly plenty of issues with both asics related to manufacturing and delivery. But nothing they say or do is going to affect it one way or the other, nor will it likely affect anyone else's choices. They are powerless, and at some level they know this, and that only fuels their hate. Being irrelevant really pisses some people off, and makes them even louder.
I wish I could reach out to each and every one of them and cure them. Unfortunately, I think only the passage of time can do that. Eventually every vendor will either deliver or go belly up. Then what will they have left?
The obvious counter-example to your claims is the PSA:
If you have ordered from ButterFly Labs and have not yet received your product, you are entitled to a refund whenever you request one (per FTC rules).
First ask ButterFly Labs for a refund, they will probably say no but you might get lucky.
If you ordered via PayPal you can file a complaint with them even if you are outside the 45 day window. Multiple customers have already gotten a refund from PayPal that was outside the 45 days.
If you ordered via Bitcoin or Bank wire, you can fill out a complaint with the FTC at http://www.ftc.gov/complaint and they will advocate for you with ButterFly Labs to get your refund. You can also contact the office of the Kansas Attorney General and inform them that you have had your money taken with no product delivered for months, just more promises.
You can also do a paper filing with the DA here: http://da.jocogov.org/complaint-forms
There are also several threads on how to get a refund from ButterFly Labs, here are two:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=266945.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=272585.0This message has grown over time and helped a few people get refunds from BFL (who at first refused to provide them). Customers are entitled to a refund until they are shipped a product (thus creating a 'sale'), many were unaware of this. This is real. Maybe you were not around earlier (it would explain a lot) but the "vendor haters" were in the minority before April. There was a lot of euphoria going around and back then "the 90%" had a different take on things. There is irony here as well. It is your post that is actually an example of the bad behavior. It contains only disdain and insults for those that disagree with you. Other people can speculate as to why you are so bitter in other threads. |
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While the numbers are exaggerated, a widget that costs a small amount compared to what it would bring in has already been created. It's called an ASIC. At the time pre-orders were taken, the smallest unit cost less than 30BTC, and if ONLY 1 was made and there was NO competition, it would have brought in more than 400BTC in 12 months. Therein lies the rub... there will be competition and no one will make just one.
Thus everyone projected how much competition BFL would have between October of 2012 and January of 2013. The proejction was zero, they were the only vendor planning to ship. Then it was a simple matter of when you ordered your BFL product as to when you would get it. Instead, BFL was 3rd (out of 3) to deliver. Both ASICMiner and Avalon batch 1 deployed first, thus reaping large rewards. If we step into fantasy world though, we now have every unit capable of making such incredible returns... the ~4600 BTC for every mini-rig becomes 61,333. The network increase since those preorders is now at over 600TH. That's 400 minirigs. That would mean 24,533,200 BTC would have been produced in a single year and if we went to Inaba's farcical numbers that would be well over 72million. In less than 4 months at todays rate the entire BTC supply would have been exhausted.
No, most people here realize that mining is a zero sum game and that they are competing with all other miners. There are lots of noobs drawn in by the April bubble who probably can't find their ass with both hands. I am sure they have no idea about how mining works, but thankfully most of them are not on these forums. THIS is the problem with your "I'd take the 400 BTC!" and the reason why the difficulty is so high today... since EVERYONE wanted the 400 BTC... no one can have it.
Only early adopters have a shot at it, thus all of BFL land went from the catbird seat to negative return. Once the hash rate reaches equilibrium, you cannot generate much more than the worth of the device. There are still some efficiencies to be found with over/under clocking etc. |
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Heh, what a tool.
Are you completely incapable of having discourse without resorting to insults when a counterpoint does not fit your narrative ? There is no need for that final snipe. Evolve, Josh. To be fair, Josh has to argue that receiving less than you paid is good, and that waiting a really long time for your stuff is also good. Don't give him too hard a time, it is a very difficult position to defend. You and I had a similar discussion a while back, so let me ask again the question (slightly modified) you never answered: Can you show that the BTC you had last June and every BTC you earned from then until now was never spent, or IF spent, that you ended up with more BTC from having spent it? Actually, yes I could. However, I only need to show the opportunity cost of turning over my BTC to another party. That third party gets the chance to benefit from the rise in BTC exchange rate. I have zero chance to benefit from an exchange rate rise if I do not have my BTC. Whoever took my BTC has a higher than zero chance, therefore they are in a better position to capitalize on any rise in exchange rates. We don't need to talk about exchange rates though. We can just take Josh's example: Give me 400 BTC now (worth $52,000) and I will promise you 200 BTC at some point in the future such that the USD value of that 200 BTC is more than $70,000. In other words, give me $52,000 of BTC now, and I will give you $70,000 of BTC back at some point in the future if the exchange rate goes above $350/BTC. |
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Maybe that's because what you think is a problem is just 4 or 5 dudes with a big mouth, lots of time in their hands and a sense of entitlement like I haven't seen before. Translation: nothing a few bans won't solve. But that's just how I see it, and what the fuck do I know, right? But the forum promote freedom of speech like with BFL ads so it can't ban users for posting their ideas. Meanwhile, they are clustering a technical part of the forum that don't give a *** about their flame wars. Give them a section to do so and everyone will be happy. Not saying it will happen, because I really doubt it will come to that. Bitcoin is fueled by drama, after all. lol It's just that the "complaints" get old, if you know what I mean. How many times do you need to say something to make it true? Oh, wait... EDIT: You described the problem oh so well, in that other thread. ...stupid sockpuppet war.
Bitcoin psyops at its best LMAO [POLL] Should Butterfly Labs (BFL) get a Scammer tag? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155730.0796 people polled said yes. 225 said no. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=269950.01800+ replies to Avalon's failure to deliver the chips in a timely fashion. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.07800+ replies to a newly announced start up that has not yet delivered a product. Is it just 4 or 5 people? BFL and Avalon are the model right now for Bitcoin hardware vendors. Lack of transparency. Lack of delivery. Lack of recourse. Should we be worried because a few opaque ASIC vendors are the only source for the security of the blockchain? |
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Heh, what a tool.
Are you completely incapable of having discourse without resorting to insults when a counterpoint does not fit your narrative ? There is no need for that final snipe. Evolve, Josh. To be fair, Josh has to argue that receiving less than you paid is good, and that waiting a really long time for your stuff is also good. Don't give him too hard a time, it is a very difficult position to defend. |
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3. Bitcoin price - You paid ~$10 per bitcoin in August 2012. You were unable to predict the price (since if you were, you'd be a multi-billionaire right now), so you elected to purchase mining hardware as a hedge against bitcoin going up. This let you lock in your price of bitcoins, and if it went down you'd be making back many, many more bitcoins than you spent. If it went up, you'd make less bitcoins, but you'd make more fiat... that is the whole point of mining hardware. It locks you in at a bitcoin value and gives you the potential to derive more wealth from the unit than you had previous, be it in BTC or fiat, depending on market trends.
This aspect of buying mining gear is what so many just refuses to understand. The aspect of not buying the hardware is what Josh is ignoring. Let us compare the cases of buying mining hardware for immediate instant delivery vs not buying the hardware and keeping the BTC: Case 1) Buying hardware, spend 3000 BTC to get 1.5TH/s, we now have hardware in hand. Case 2) Not buying hardware, we still have 3000 BTC. Now, if the hardware returns less than 3000 BTC after mining is complete and all residual device value has been recovered, the investment was a bad one and Case 2 prevails. If the hardware generates more than 3000 BTC after mining is complete and all residual device value has been recovered, the investment was a good one and Case 1 prevails. There is no case in which receiving any given piece of mining hardware later is better than receiving it sooner (assuming the hardware has a long operational lifetime). So you cannot add a delay in shipping to Case 1 and hope to improve it's returns. Any delay will always make Case 1 return less value than if there was no delay. So, the idea that adding a delay to shipping has somehow enhanced the purchase of a unit of mining hardware is ludicrous. If you still doubt, just replace the word "Bitcoin" with "ounces of gold". Josh says giving 400 ounces of gold for 5 ounces of gold back is a good deal, because the price of gold rose. K9 once again demonstrates his inability to follow even slightly complex sentences and ideas, seeing as that has basically nothing whatsoever to do with what I wrote and is in direct contradiction to my post. Heh, what a tool. This is how you know you won an argument with Inaba. He stops replying to logic and math and starts flinging insults to derail the thread and keep people from reading about his failures. Then his fanboi's cry that there is hate on the forums. Go figure.  |
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3. Bitcoin price - You paid ~$10 per bitcoin in August 2012. You were unable to predict the price (since if you were, you'd be a multi-billionaire right now), so you elected to purchase mining hardware as a hedge against bitcoin going up. This let you lock in your price of bitcoins, and if it went down you'd be making back many, many more bitcoins than you spent. If it went up, you'd make less bitcoins, but you'd make more fiat... that is the whole point of mining hardware. It locks you in at a bitcoin value and gives you the potential to derive more wealth from the unit than you had previous, be it in BTC or fiat, depending on market trends.
This aspect of buying mining gear is what so many just refuses to understand. The aspect of not buying the hardware is what Josh is ignoring. Let us compare the cases of buying mining hardware for immediate instant delivery vs not buying the hardware and keeping the BTC: Case 1) Buying hardware, spend 3000 BTC to get 1.5TH/s, we now have hardware in hand. Case 2) Not buying hardware, we still have 3000 BTC. Now, if the hardware returns less than 3000 BTC after mining is complete and all residual device value has been recovered, the investment was a bad one and Case 2 prevails. If the hardware generates more than 3000 BTC after mining is complete and all residual device value has been recovered, the investment was a good one and Case 1 prevails. There is no case in which receiving any given piece of mining hardware later is better than receiving it sooner (assuming the hardware has a long operational lifetime). So you cannot add a delay in shipping to Case 1 and hope to improve it's returns. Any delay will always make Case 1 return less value than if there was no delay. So, the idea that adding a delay to shipping has somehow enhanced the purchase of a unit of mining hardware is ludicrous. If you still doubt, just replace the word "Bitcoin" with "ounces of gold". Josh says giving 400 ounces of gold for 5 ounces of gold back is a good deal, because the price of gold rose. |
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This is a completely disingenuous market that is predicated on completely ludicrous assumptions. Lets look at a few of them, but this list is by no means comprehensive:
Mining has different market dynamics than you'd like to make people believe. In mining the product is money or a money substitute itself. Thus miners are generally interested in increasing their purchasing power within the money system itself. Put another way: A miner becomes by definition the issuer of the currency and benefits from the ongoing inflation because they get the new money first before the market can price in the inflation or the mining costs are generally lower than the mining revenue. He thus operates CONDITIONAL on the assumption that the purchasing power of the mined asset increases, stays the same or inflates slower than the expected incoming cash flow. If I would expect the mined asset price to fall, I would NOT buy hardware in the first place, but hedge my asset position by selling them for something else. Thus, mining investments are similar to doubling down on an appreciation of the mined asset. The miner accepts a certain degree of risk and capital expenditure for the prospect of getting that capital back. If I expect the capital expenditure to outsize the mining revenue, I wouldn't do the investment in the first place. That simply doesn't make any economic sense. You clearly do not understand the motivations of the vast majority of miners, then. This may be your way of thinking, but I assure you beyond any shadow of a doubt, most miners are in it to make a profit in USD (or their local currency) not to "increase their purchasing power within the money system itself." Most miners couldn't give a shit about how much BTC it makes in the end, they just want to know how much USD (or local currency) it makes. Once again, I challenge you: Ask an average miner which they'd rather do: Purchase a widget that costs 10 BTC and will generate 400 BTC, valued at $2 each or Purchase a widget that costs 10 BTC and will generate 5 BTC, valued at $200 each Invariably, the answer will be the second option, even though that person could have increased their BTC holdings by 40x! Very few people want BTC for BTC sake, they want BTC for what value it provides in their local currency. Again, you may be different, but you are in a very tiny, miniscule minority. You should never spend 10BTC to get 5BTC. That is a fools errand. You are reducing your BTC holdings and hoping the exchange rate will rise to bail out your poor decision making. Always spend 10BTC to gain 400BTC. You cannot control the fluctuations in the exchange rate. Ideally, spend 10BTC to get a product that ships immediately, so you can begin mining and not wait a year. |
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He was invited personally by Josh to visit BFL and determine for himself the truth of things, so ON HIS OWN, he decided to stop the presses and wait until he made his visit and found out first hand what was going on. Just cause you are too lazy to find out the truth though, you assume someone bullied him into being quiet.
<insults snipped>
This is what the community has been agitating for. Transparency. Many of us have lived through this list: List of Major Bitcoin Heists, Thefts, Hacks, Scams, and LossesWhen a company fails to deliver, they don't get a free pass anymore. The company gets raked over the coals now, because the number of people who have been ripped off at some point in the Bitcoin ecosystem has grown large enough that they cannot be shouted down by a few white knights anymore. Look at how fast the tables turned on Avalon. Early on in Bitcoin, people were naive. Now, there are a lot more people with burned fingers. There are a lot more people in general. Now, when white knights mount a defense on the forums, it erupts into a conflagration that grows rather than subsides. The rise in the number of threads is due to an increase in population of the Bitcoin community as much as an increase in vendor hate. Also, since most mining is done by ASICs now, all modern mining information is either in the Custom Hardware or the Group Buys. Custom Hardware needs to be split up into subforums that can serve as proper homes for the different sorts of discussions. |
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Thanks. I think my approach keeps it simple, minimises the workload for the mods in terms of constantly moving threads around, allows discussion as well as complaints to be aired, and separates out the true development/progress discussion entirely. There is no way the forum will, or for that matter should, dedicate a subforum to any one manufacturer. Validating what is real from what is going to be real from what is vapour and what is scam is not the job of the forum mods.
I don't see why it should be hard to separate threads based on products that exist vs products that do not exist. Mods are already able to tell GPUs from ASICs and FPGAs. It shouldn't be too hard to observe that a trusted third party verified a product actually exists and is no longer mere speculation. I think the forums should be separated based on the sort of discussions likely to take place in them, not necessarily by vendor or hardware type. Forum 1) For not yet real products and absolute vaporware products and any scams from vendors can coexist in the same forum since any discussion would be speculative and not grounded in observable facts. KNC products, BFL Monarch, CoinTerra product line, etc belong here. Forum 2) Products that are shipping (vendors can afford to ship one unit through a trusted escrow for verification) can have their own forum. This is where conversations are limited by verifiable facts and the laws of physics. There is little room for speculation and thus little room for argument. Avalon, ASICMiner, BFL Jalapeno/Single/Minirig, Bitfury, etc belong here. Forum 3) DIY/FOSS community projects really need their own forum, separate from vendor specific hardware. With a little peace and quiet, they can accomplish great things! Forum 4) A forum for customer relations & vendor discussions. Need a refund, lost a shipment, vendor is late, vendor is great, etc. This is going to be more of a review style board (a la YELP) where the content is mostly opinion based and subjective. "Vendor was nice to me" threads, lawsuit threads, "I got my order" threads, "I want a refund" threads, belong here. |
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Everyone thinks they will win, but the news is that exactly 1/2 of those in court lose.
That is because for every winner, there is a loser. Your odds start out at 50% just walking in the door.
That does not follow from the previous statement. If you have a case and the other side does not show up to contest the case, then your odds start out at 100% by walking in the door. |
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Does anyone have the names of the CEO and COO "fullnames"? Whats inaba name? Josh Zerlan, who is the other guy? Sonny Vleisides
Whats the registered company adress and whats the adress of their facility?
I need as much informations as possible. I had a very very good phone conservation with kansas general attorny. I need as much informations as you guys can provide me. (got scammed out of 25k)
http://www.butterflylabs.com/management/ |
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YES, we all know they suck.
YES, we all know they are probably a scam.
YES, we all have suspicion that they have shills.
YES, we know that inaba and company are all scumbags.
There is no need to flood the forum with the same crap over and over, it is becoming repetitive ad nauseum.
Lets just stop creating new topics about BFL and lets post here only "new scams" out there.
Thanks.
Most of the threads are moved here from other forums. Someone can't get a refund, so they cry scam. They get told how, but the thread gets moved so the next guy doesn't see it. Someone wants to know why they didn't receive product, so they cry scam. They are instructed how to get a refund, but the thread gets moved so the next guy doesn't see it. Someone wants to file a lawsuit, etc. |
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You seem to think the burden of proof is on us. It isn't. It is on you. I am not trying to sell 28nm ASIC dreams for $5K a pop.
You seem to think we have no history, that every post is starting fresh. I gave BFL (and by extension you) 6 months of being late and tossing around insults on these forums before I stopped giving them the benefit of the doubt. The fake shipping of the April 1st unit to dodge a bet was the last straw. Burden of what proof? Do you even know what that term means? The fact that you're slinging it around here seems to indicate you're using it as a buzzword. What on earth are you possibly referring to? You have to convince customers to buy your product. You must convince them that you will deliver on your promises. You are the one who has something to prove. I can just sit here. I don't have to keep customers from filing lawsuits against me. Thus, it is your burden, not mine. Also, wikipedia you nitwit. The philosophical burden of proof or onus (probandi) is the obligation on a party in an epistemic dispute to provide sufficient warrant for their position.This place would be much nicer place to talk about Bitcoin if BFL refunded people's money who asked for it, and if BFL shipped people their merchandise like they promised they would, and if the BFL rep would stop calling people names and instead live up to his responsibilities. This place would be much nicer if BFL actually had answers for questions, instead of insults. Apparently you don't understand the problem, which is, in itself, the problem (or one of them, anyway). People are tired of seeing the same crap posted by you and others, over and over. Most of it's irrational, fictional or exaggerated. A small percentage of it is legitimate, which is fine, but repeating it over and over, regardless of it's legitimacy is annoying to basically everyone but you. If you stopped posting today, and never posted again, the only thing that would happen is the forum quality would improve. That's what I'm saying, you bring nothing of value to the forum with your mind numbing postings repeating the same things over and over. There's no new discourse when you are around, anything new that starts to brew in a thread, you post in, and it quickly degenerates. Do you seriously deny this? Threads I don't even participate in suffer from this, so it's not *me* that's wrecking the threads, it's *you*. Perhaps if BFL clears their backlog, there would be far fewer angry customers who come here looking for answers. There wouldn't be someone new every day saying "BFL won't refund my money" then I wouldn't have to post the PSA for how to get refunds from BFL. BFL keeps failing to deliver, the anger gets worse. You have the nerve to blame the people you are failing for seeking answers here? Of course you do. You are unprofessional and seem to take delight in frustrating your customer base. Avalon is having similar problems delivering (not a year late yet), but you don't see the forum overrun with Avalon hate threads because Yifu doesn't show up here day after day and laugh at his customers and call them assholes and douchebags. I don't laugh at the customers or call them assholes or douchebags unless they start out by being an asshole or douchebag. Once again (how many times do I have to point this out until you get it through your head?) - if you start out with respect, you get respect in return. If you start out as an asshole, well you get what you deserve. Stop being an asshole is the solution. That is what your customers are giving you. Most of your posts here are of you being an asshole to somebody, and now you are getting it back 100x. Karma. Also, you seem to think it is funny for the representative of a company to insult customers and ignore questions. You claim it is in BFL's best interests to annoy the "monumental assholes of bitcointalk". You caused this problem, and if you did your job, the problem would go away. New angry BFL customers arrive here every day. Asking the old ones to shutup and bite the pillow isn't going to solve anything for you. It will just buy you some time. |
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You speak of change, and that's great. But the cost of that change is the insolvency at worst or severely deteriorating business. There is no business in this market that can operate in the altruistic manner you appear to want. BFL is not a charity or a non-profit organization, it's a for profit business. Acting against that would be nonsensicle and once people finally come to accept and understand that bitcoin is now a business and not some pie-in-the-sky dream of libertarians (much to their chagrin, I'm sure), perhaps the fervor and irrationality may die down a bit, but that day is probably a long way off.
I suspected the costs of doing business properly would drive BFL onto the rocks, at best crippling them. But just because the world isn't the way you want the world to be (I'm using the royal "you" here, not you specifically) is not an excuse for you to be an asshat on the internet. It's those people I do not care for or respect.
I think it is for precisely that reason that nobody respects you and so many believe that you are running a long-con at BFL. More posts like the previous one (with content and a point about the BFL business) and less of the "monumental assholes" & "douchbags" posts would perhaps undo some of that reasoning. Like I said, stop being an asshole and a douchebag and you'll get the same respect in return (although you'll have a long, hard road, given your history). Once again, you're a perfect example of the root of the problem. You, quite literally, are the cause of the problem. You find it impossible to approach a situation with rationality and reasonability, instead immediately launching into an adversarial, caustic tone. Literally your first sentence in response is an insult, and that's why you get what you get and I have zero respect for you. I very, very seriously doubt you'll find very many people that disagree with the fact that if you and the rest of the anti-BFL crew stopped posting the same crap over and over on the forums that the placed would be much, much nicer to discuss bitcoin. But as it is now, every single thread you post in turns into a mire of crap. I avoid some threads all together and yet the thread turns into a junkpile the minute you start posting, that should tell you something. You seem to think the burden of proof is on us. It isn't. It is on you. I am not trying to sell 28nm ASIC dreams for $5K a pop. You seem to think we have no history, that every post is starting fresh. I gave BFL (and by extension you) 6 months of being late and tossing around insults on these forums before I stopped giving them the benefit of the doubt. The fake shipping of the April 1st unit to dodge a bet was the last straw. This place would be much nicer place to talk about Bitcoin if BFL refunded people's money who asked for it, and if BFL shipped people their merchandise like they promised they would, and if the BFL rep would stop calling people names and instead live up to his responsibilities. This place would be much nicer if BFL actually had answers for questions, instead of insults. Avalon is having similar problems delivering (not a year late yet), but you don't see the forum overrun with Avalon hate threads because Yifu doesn't show up here day after day and laugh at his customers and call them assholes and douchebags. "If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day long, you are the asshole." -Raylan Givens You have been running into assholes all day long every day for a year straight. |
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