i just got a reply with the updated questionnaire figures. I think makhul is the one who lost the most coins

indeed absence is not a good sign, the questionnaire expires tomorrow and i also want to see the results asap to be able to discuss the next steps and start the work like convincing "unsure" persons with a good plan, we dont have any time to lose

sorry, only the admin could bring more clarification on this, lets see if he can help with this to get back more "trust" (if thats possible ;-))

Bitcoin als faire Alternative

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8fS-rIsNfg

This would be "invest" option where you put in 300.000 additional Euros ;-)


just kidding, considering how messed up the situation is, i still would recommend the "cooperate" option

lets wait for the results and then we see what we can make possible with the investment capital.. but whe 80% would chose the 30% option it is impossible to fulfil, the main goal is to avoid liquidation so the website can  be reopened.

well, immediate in the sense of "immediate when the quetionnaire is over AND the investment has been done". Lets actually see how many 30% requests we have and if we could keep this with a bitcoin price of 25 USD....

Well, chosing the last option means nothing in particular. It just means you do not demand back your coins immediately (since you did NOT chose the non-cooperation) but on the other hand you cannot be counted as cooperative.

Regarding the question if your coins are immediately lost.... YES! Your coins are ALREADY lost, no matter which option you chose. The question is simply what do you think is the best way out of the mess. Official liquidation or reopening the site under new ownership to pay back coins.


The questionnaire is held only once and the result is taken as of 15.2.2013 as a decision basis which way to go forward. This does not mean that you cannot change your opinion anymore, but there will not be another questionnaire.

lol, I myself don't know anything about if the "official story" is true or not, fullstop. Prove would be nice, if thats possible, but it is at least not MY priority to fiddle around when and how which individual bitcoin was lost.

well, i dont think this particular option would be possible, since it would be discriminating against the others.

Indeed, i do NOT have any financial incentive to invest. With 618 frozen bitcoins i am a victim of the misbehaviour as anyone else. But complaining does not help, i would like to do something.

But, it VERY important for me that the debts are formally separated from the new site and this is why i do NOT want to take over the site but REOPEN it. BUT, it would require cooperation from most people with frozen coins, because i cannot take the site out of the liquidation mass on my own. This is why i would propose this plan to reopen the site where many people CAN be stakeholders. We have some interested persons that would also invest "NEW" money into the site but of course it is by far not enough to pay out high sums.

I am not selling any plan, i do not even profit myself, it just costs MORE of my money, but i HOPE that i have a chance to see part of my frozen coins back in the future. I do not even say that this is a good plan, i just say, this is a better plan than the official liquidation where no one would see anything as everything goes to the lawyers.


As to my person, i would not run the site anonymously. If you need more info about me, just google me,  there is lot of info about me in the internet:

Here is my facebook (feel free to add me to access my "full" profile):
https://www.facebook.com/mralbi

This is my own youtube channel where you can also see me in person and listen to some stupid bitcoin-talk in german:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUTlkLNbn5Y93r5X9F8SBag?feature=watch

This is my xing profile where you can see my "professional" background and where i am working:
https://www.xing.com/profile/Martin_Albert4

and here is my "private" (and indeed outdated) collection of blogs:
mralbi.blogspot.com
mralbihelsinki.blogspot.com
and many more linked from there

if FEW people would chose not to cooperate we could go on with the restoration plan and the non-cooperative persons would be dealt with individually. (Possible solutions: A partial payout,provoking a court case , full payout in Euro where the bitcoins are valued at the time when they were bought or frozen, or whatever, it really depends on the amount of coins frozen and other factors like how much investment capital is available).

If MANY people chose not to cooperate the investors (me and others) would not see any chance to go on with the idea of a restoration plan, as cooperation is required for that (reopening the website etc.) and the "official liquidation" would be required. With current Bitcoin prices of 24 USD it is quite tricky already with FEW people not willing to cooperate.



My opinion on this is clear, i would prefer to reopen and run a site that belongs to "everyone" with frozen coins, separated from the old admin where we have a chance to get coins back. I would not prefer the liquidation, as it is costly, takes long time, is inefficient and we would get a quite small share of the frozen coins, like few percent.

well mentore,
no matter what you chose your bitcoins ARE already lost, in that sense yes it it automatic ;-)

I think when you put "decide later" it is interpreted as "some" kind of cooperation, as you did NOT click that you do not want to cooperate. I think you would be contacted separately, but it is assumed that you are not against any restoration plans.

i am quite sure the admin messed around with other people's bitcions for quite a while without telling anyone, even after they were already lost and I am also sure that it was not a "single" transaction from his wallet to bitcoinia or so.

But I would be quite sure in the fact that the coins are simply gone and no matter what kind of evidence and criminal investigation we will demand it will not bring any coins back, so my proposal is to "force" him to give up the site and lets start a new project from scratch where he will be "forced" to clean up the mess and implement the features we want to see. I think even after all mess he created he is willing to help cleaning up and we should use this offer

hatte gerade Lust noch ein zweites Video zu machen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgN3Is1V8X4

OK you should have received an email then, i dont think this happened intentionally, can you log in to the website and see the questionnaire? (I will double check why)

Well, the reason that convinced me to cooperate are simple: I have 618 frozen coins and i would never see anything back if i do not cooperate. Liqidation process would not help at all and i dont want to pay more money to lawyers.

Now the admin is somehow "forced" to sell the site, so why not take the chance to become a partial owner and be able to make demands on how the site should be like in the future.

Also, i skyped with him in video and he is indeed noone who tries to hide and he is really willing to help cleaning up the mess.

So, i also would prefer to just get my frozen coins back, but it is simply not possible and any other means would not give you any more chances to get the coins back....

chosing to invest means that you have the general WILLINGNESS to support the investors by investing either "new money" into the site or by changing the frozen coins into shares of the new company somehow. Not more not less. It does not oblige to do anything yet, but it indicates you have the general willingess.

AFTER the initial questionnaire is finished all persons that click "invest" would be contacted immediately afterwards with another questionnaire about things like how much additional money/bitcoins they would like to invest and also a proposal how the shares are distributed, how votings rights are and in general how the investment plan would look like, i.e. which new services would be developed first, if there are further proposals, who should be in charge and all kind of stuff.

Then everyone can decide if he would like to accept the terms and conditions and be on board or not.


In case the cooperation rate is too low this step would be completely useless and skipped, therefore we wait for the outcome of the first questionnaire first.

In case the site does NOT reopen for whatever reason (e.g. since response rate is too low or not enough cooperate or the investment money would not be available or there is an earthquake and all participants die) then it just goes the "official" liquidation way.

In case of "I will decide later/ I have another idea", you would either have another idea and tell us about it. It can be as stupid as "M4V3r should play the lottery or rob a bank to pay the frozen coins back ;-) Any idea is welcome

Or in the other case we assume that you do not want to cooperate, but you also do not demand an immediate payout of frozen coins

if you have no frozen coins you did not get an email i assume, but you should have received the link to the forum post some time ago. In case you actually HAVE frozen coins and did not get the email i would complain asap. In case the admin does not answer, just write me an email and i will take care of this.

The purpose of this questionnaire is some kind of screening on the willingness of people with frozen coins to accept a "better" solution than official liquidation where investors would reopen the site in order to pay back frozen coins. No matter what is the outcome of the questionnaire you are always free to start any kind of legal action against the admin.

But unless you have frozen coins i assume you cannot demand any coins back no matter how good your lawyer is ;-))))

I was notified, I myself have 618 coins "frozen" which means basically "lost". The situation is pretty much messed up. I think everyone should have been informed about this by now? We are discussing a way forward what is the best solution....


Either liquidate the whole site or reopening with new ideas and improved service which would require some investments.

no, sorry it was wronlgy quoted, i deleted the wrong row when quoting *g

And well, the investment would be made in a clear contractual frame were roles and responsibilties are clear. There would be a business plan on what would be developed and how the payback is regulated or how the shares are regulated and who will be in charge etc etc.

But this is only the next step after the "screening" with the questionnaire. Before any investment can take place the general will of the creditors to cooperate is necessary, otherwise every plan would fail.